In Tarot cards, there is a concept called reversing a card, where the meaning becomes the exact opposite. Marceline was a good person who was lead astray by the VK, so she's a reversed Star. Normally Star means hope and prospects for a brighter future, the pouring water on the card's picture signifies healing and propserous abundance. But in the vampire takover timeline, Marceline symbolizes hopelessness, a dark future, pain/suffering and things being unrightfully taken away or resources (blood I guess) being greedily sucked out of you. Marceline is CAUSING all those things I just said, but is also a victim of all those exact same things happening to her, due to the VK corrupting her good nature and forcing a dark future upon her. Also, the Star typically comes right after the Tower (the card of tragedy and grave misfortune) to signify somone having passed through hard times which are now over and are beginning to improve---since it's reversed, the dark times and doom are not receding, they are growing. The Tower's growing in influence with the help of the Star...... Actually, the vampire headquarters probably IS literally supposed to be the Tower Tarot.
Yeah!!! This is a lot like what I was thinking when I made the connection back to tarot cause I kinda forgot about that theme in the show. Where the Star upright feels like a good arcana for Marcy in our Ooo, especially for her following Stakes and Obsidian, this timeline is reversed due to VK's corrupting influence on her.
This episode really show you how truly important Simon was not to only Marceline but to all of Ooo if this is what Ooo future look like if Marceline never became a vampire hunter and wiped out all of the vampires.
F&C had strong themes of predeterminism/destiny and acceptance. Not strangers to the original show, but so much deeper and personal as they relate to Simon's story.
It also shows how much important the Crown was to the story. If Simon never wore the crown, he would've died either in the mushroom war or killed by the vampires,who would still be around because Marceline(becoming evil) wouldn't have killed them
It works thematically as well imo. Through out AT Marcy has always had a tomboyish vibe to her fashion. In The Star, she's inverted. Her goals and personality have flipped into something almost unrecognisable. As does her fashion. I can't see original Marcy wearing such frilly get up, even though it does look *chk chk* 👌
I just wanna note that the moment where PB screams "I'm not a loser" at Marceline really stuck with me. With this and the Candy Queen, Hynden Walsh showed some serious range in just these AU versions. It's so rare to see a character like Bubblegum just briefly break down like that. It reminded me a lot of that scene in Varmints? It really shows how good Marceline is at provoking strong emotional reactions from her. Marceline always seems to know exactly what buttons to push and how to break her normal facade, for good or bad.
Something I found interesting about the Star is the fact that she had her powers. Stuff like flight and shapeshifting. Ya know, the powers that prime Marceline got only after consuming the souls of the Major Arcana members? I like to think that maybe as each of them died one by one she took their powers to get some more use from them? Either that or she herself killed them to be the last of the Major Arcana or something.
It kinda makes sense. We only saw her use flight and shapeshifting-- which means the Fool and Hierophant. I can easily see the Fool being eliminated just because his powers could be put to better use-- as Marceline clearly doesn't value vampire lives besides VK. Otherwise, just based on Stakes- I can't imagine the Hierophant would easily fall in line with VK. Maybe Marceline had to take him out? I could see most of the others being slowly worn down over a thousand years, but it's not hard to imagine them being killed by some of the early people fighting back. Except the Moon tbh.
@@jaredhall5169 Yeah. I have no idea how the Moon would've been killed by anyone/anything other than Marceline. She was able to survive multiple stakes stabbing her while in the sun.
@@jaredhall5169 Considering what Hierophant says about disrupting the natural order in "Stakes", I think he would absolutely DESPISE the Vampire King when the Crown started making him crazy and he began over-hunting their food.
I always see this Vampire World being made by a wish by Betty or Marceline. Like if Betty or Marceline wished for Simon to never have found the Ice Crown.
Actually, I believe winter king’s world was Marcy’s wish of Simon being sane. This world i think fits better for a wish made by Bonnie, specifically wishing that Marcy would get along with her dad. This comes mostly by the nature of Prismo’s wishes, always backfiring on the wisher and in this universe I think Bonnie had the worst cards dealt, tragically creating a word where she’s got no candy kingdom, most her friends are dead and her girlfriend is evil incarnated + the loss of an eye of course
@@boo9781The sane Ice King world wouldn't make sense, since the reason that Simon kept his sanity was because he transfers the crown's curse of mental illness to his universe's Princess Bubblegum. If Marcy did wish for a universe where Simon wore the crown but kept his sanity, I don't think it would be through the method of transferring the insanity to Princess Bubblegum
@@hish33p32 remember that people don’t usually word their wishes that specifically, for example, when Finn wished for the lich to not exist he probably was thinking of the lich disappearing, not of the mushroom bomb failing to blow up and causing all of his friends to be dead or not exist and magic as a whole being gone. Prismo doesn’t just grant the wish, he creates a world in which narratively the wish makes sense, like with Wyatt’s wish, he doesn’t make things silent just because, he creates a world based on a silent film. With this in mind, if Marcy were to wish for Simon’s sanity Prismo would create a world in which he got his sanity regardless of how it has to happen. My personal theory is that Marcy died in the presence of Ice king and PB and from the grief and pain he casted a spell onto PB that transferred his insanity. This would also explain the backfire for Marcy as her wish got her killed, caused her girlfriend to become deranged and Simon to become an asshole
@@boo9781 makes sense, but there's also hundreds of other ways for it to happen if Prismo created a universe specifically for Marcy's wish to make Simon remain sane while wearing the crown
@@hish33p32nah that's actually the reason I believe marceline DID do it. It's a very fitting monkey paw. Basically all of Prismo's wishes have them. Marceline wishes that Simon was no longer mad and the monkey paw is that he transfers the madness to your girlfriend instead
PB's crew is a massive reference to the cult classic film Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust. A post apocalyptic crew of vampire hunters rolling around in a tank, and the first to die is the crew's big guy who's wielding a hammer/stake weapon
the star episode made me reaaaally understand what marceline meant by saying "he's right i could've snapped and done you all in anytime" in stakes like yikes she could have but she didn't bc she was raised and taught well by simon
It was both cool but sad at the same time to see an evil version of Marceline. Cool because her outfits were amazing and Olivia Olson sounded like she was having a blast voicing her. But sad because the character that so many of us grew up loving and admiring could have easily turned out evil if Simon had not taken care of her when she was little.
Did you look at the meanings for the star when it is reversed? I feel like that is a far more accurate view when sticking to the Tarot parallel. Cause from Simon's perspective the reversed card matches his feelings perfectly.
Hope you’re doing alright man. Just want to say I appreciate you for your passion about this show and for the effort you put in to your videos. I check back here often to see if you post anything and it’s okay if you don’t. I just hope despite anything, you feel some happiness because you’ve given that to me through your work. ❤
I love how Cake spelled her name “Caek” to hint at her “catness” that keeps popping back up, and also because that’s how cute “cat speak” would spell it. Liek, I can haz caek plz?! Gime caek for noms plz… etc. haha so it worked both ways. Choosing to spell like a cat, or just being a cat and not understanding how to spell properly yet. Either way is still funny. Cake being an actual cat is my favorite running joke, and I hope she never grows out of it. As much as I love Jake, he rarely if ever acted like a dog unless he chose to on purpose. So it’s nice seeing a sentient talking cat still thinking a person would want a bloody rodent, or how she says “I saw something that scared me and I whacked it into a corner all by myself!” Hahaha that’s the most catlike thing ever! Just panic and whack it!
I've got several notes and personal theories. first. The Ice Vampire King & his personality: His personality. I think you could flip a coin on whether or not his mind was warped. The VK we were familiar with in Stakes had more time to dwell in introspection and reflect on his existance after being defeated by Marceline. Ice VK is a version who never tasted total defeat, only (mostly) constant victory. So he's probably never been put in a position to think "maybe being a Vampire actually sucks donkey butts". If the Ice Crown did effect him, it's probably why he failed to see the problem with Vampires over-hunting their food supply. *Next* The Ice Crown... 1) You do not need to be the *Master* of the Ice Crown to use it's powers; As Gunter displayed when he was given it to rebuild the Ice Kingdom while Ice King roomed with Finn and Jake. So there might be some sad and insane white-haired Vampire writhing around somewhere, while the VK reaps the rewards of using the Ice Crown. 2) The Vampire King is our first real magical Master of the Ice Crown. A dinosaur and like, six humans are the majority of it's victims/Masters. (note: The Penguin/Eldritch Monster Gunter does not count for this, since he Wished himself into being his perception of Ice King with the reset Crown) The Vampire King is powerful and magical enough that he could've used a Focusing Charm like Evergreen mentioned, and overcame the Crown's negative powers. Or his Vampiric status rendered the negative effects of the Crown moot. Since Vampires do not age, he won't show physical signs. It's also possible that being as magical as he is, his mind could not be negatively effected like the non-magical Humans we've seen go crazy were. *And* *Next* Huntress and Huntress Wizard: I think Huntress to Huntress Wizard is like Choose Bruce to Choose Goose, and Bobby to Billy. Somewhere in her ancestry in the main universe we are familiar with, HW had human ancestors that were mutated. Meanwhile things in Vampire World are not magical enough to mutate Huntress's ancestors. But things were still magical enough to create Billy and Bonnie. Bonnie: If she's made of gum in this universe. She *might* survive the fall. Since in several episodes of the original series, she's been shown to survive things such as half her head being taken off by Ice King or being shattered into many pieces. *Neddy* The absolute most concerning detail, moreso than any other world beside maybe Winter King's reality, is the fact we aren't aware of his present status in this universe. I think Neddy's death may have been the key event to set Bonnie on her Vampire Slaying path. Since, otherwise, I feel even with an injury caused by The Star, Bonnie would've been perfectly fine with bunkering down and waiting out the extinction of the Vampires instead.
I love the idea that neddy dies and it turns Bonnie into a vamp hunter. It would align with Bonnie and marcy starting a relationship but it turning sour!
I like the idea about Neddy, PB would have no reason to save Humans or attack the vampires as long as the vampires dont touch her brother or eventual candy people. We have been shown time and time again that she is willing to do pretty horrible stuff for her people
Since the vampire King's eyes are blue, he is definitely being affected by the crown, just as Ice Finn was. I think his magical powers and overall stronger willpower is why he hasn't really turned, but I also think that when Marcy dies and he starts realizing that overhunting their food has doomed his kind to extinction (and more importantly, once he realizes that wearing the crown means he didn't actually have to eat in the first place), he's going to have a complete breakdown and will go full Ice Vampire. if Bonnie survived the fall, the hundreds of vampires behind her likely killed her anyway.
I think part of the Tarot arcanum in this case does have to deal with the ending, in Bonnie and The Star literally being upside down, implying it's the reversal of what The Star would typically mean. In universe and more generally though, I do agree that it's moreso the VK feeling like she's his shining star. I find the deaths of the other main vampires interesting too considering that The Star has a lot of the powers she originally got from sucking their souls, primarily Shapeshifting but Flight as well. It gave the implication to me that The Star killed them, either from her 'dad's' influence or on her own accord. Perhaps she obtained the powers through directly training with VK, but that's admittedly not a preferred option of mine lol.
The nature of the Star arcanum also applies to Gary and Marshall’s relationship in this episode, since how Marshall was hoping his sacrifice could enable Gary to pursue the bright, hopeful future he wanted. And in the end, Gary’s being the one to tell Marshall that his happiness is worth more than the approval of some investors inspires him to cut his mom out of his life forever, and the two of them leave the part with that renewed sense of self and hope associated with the Star card.
This episode serves as the 100% full confirmation that Martin Mertens was heroic deep at heart and that his head injury from the guardian is what caused him to spiral down his rabbit hole.
This episode doesn't confirm anything... Oh, if the world became ravished by Vampires and not...just a sanctuary where people live normal lives Martin can't scam people for his own personal gain. We already knew he wasn't heartless, nobody thought he was a complete monster...
I can't help but think that choosing "The Star" among the Arcana is also, in some sense, a tongue-in-cheek joke about prime Marcy being a literal rock star.
And the descriptions also fit prime Marceline's character arc too. She was always singing new songs on the spot, she hung out with Finn and Jake always being the life of the party, she was very modest about herself and when she and bubblegum started hanging out again she felt like a new version of herself. I think the Star tarot is definitely prime Marceline tarot.
im genuinely so sad that it isn't established that baby finn grew up in the vampire world, theres so many ways you could run with that idea, having finn grow up with the pepbut tank, perhaps befriended bonnie and marcy and somehow be a link between them, maybe he would fight against the vampires but ultimately appreciate certain characteristics of marcy, soooo fun to think about i thought so much about it before episode 10
Regarding the arcana thing, I've seen people interpreting evil marcy as the embodiment of the card being upside down, which suverts the original meaning and fits her better. Given the way she and pb falling at the end was contrasted with their alternative selves going up in an elevator, I tend to agree with this interpretation
They're actually descending in the elevator as well, btw. I found the reversed meanings of the Star (which are basically just opposites of the regular associations) to not fit too great for evil Marceline either, but thanks to some comments here, I can see how it can tie into the state of Vampworld and the effect evil Marceline had on the environment, and how the remaining humans/the resistance views evil Marceline/what feelings she invokes in them.
I Interpreted the vampire universe as Marceline's wish universe. Perhaps Marceline wished that Simon never wore the ice crown in the first place. Prismo's wishes do tend to have a monkey paw aspect to them, so it would make sense it backfired on her so badly.
My question is how she still exists in prime Ooo if she made the wish. I mean had Jake not reverted the Lich’s / Finn’s wish, Finn would still be stuck in Farmworld.
What I find interesting is how the Tarot theme is used with the epithet Star for Marceline where she represents the reverse of the card where it means loss and despair. If only Marcy could learn about new hope and revelations that could've helped the vampires survive or create a symbiosis with other creatures.
I think it’s important to note that the reverse arcana also applies to Marcy in this episode. As she is plummeting to her inevitable demise it represents the loss of hope and faith. The reverse means hopelessness, despair, a lack of faith, creativity, and boredom. Perhaps the reverse describes the situation at hand and how the vampires are complacent and how the VK will feel despair once the star passes away
the way i interpret the star arcana is, like you said, upright represents the VK's/ vampirekinds' hope and light, while reversed perfectly encompasses the insecurity and hopelessness from the resistance's point of view
Worth the wait. You analysis of episodes tend to be more profound than others compared to the likes of "reviews" or glorified summaries. Loved your comparisons to The Star and theories surrounding the environment of the Vamp world. Def helped me see the episode from a different perspective.
I know a lot of people mentioned that The Star is actually in reverse but I wanted to say that what I really liked about hunter’s death is the tarot imagery. I counted 7 arrows on them- 7 of Swords which represent things like scheming, cunning, tatics, manipulation, lies, trickery/cheating etc. can also represent spies Also I think Gary and Marshall represent The Star upright!
Unless one curse turns you into a fire demon while another curse turns you into an ice wizard, curses can definitely stack and overlap. The Vampire King overhunting his food and having a general lack of care for his people is a side affect of the Ice Crown.
Oh my! You post again?? You were my favourite channel at some time! Then you stopped for your reasons and i thought you would not come back! Im so glad you're back man
Another thing too, Marcy is able to fly anf float due to Vamp powers, we don't see any of the other powers but given HW comment about "The Star outliving the VK's Entourage", could that mean that Marcy killed them before the VK was able to make his wish?
One point: I would argue that because Simon's corpse in the Vampire world didn't have blue skin or white hair, the time-line we're seeing is one where Simon never put on the crown at all. This could mean that the reality is the result of somebody, possibly Betty or even Simon himself, wishing that Simon never wore the crown. Prismo's wishes usually have a monkey's-paw type twist, so Vampire King wishing for Marceline to be his ally and getting exactly what he wanted doesn't seem consistent.
First point is possible, although why Simon split from Betty in that case is a new unknown. The VK did get what he wanted, until the Star died that is. Now he's a Crowned King without companions apart from the minions and nothing to really live for, so I see that as monkey paw enough. But yeah there's tons of potential wishes that could have led to this reality.
14:20 While this may be true, I also like to believe Marceline's nickname to hold more meaning than its Tarot symbolism (which is, by all means, already very meaningful). When briefing Simon, Fionna and Cake on their plan, Huntress claims that The Star "has outlived the rest of his [The Vampire King's] inner circle, most likely a euphemistic allusion to the idea that Marceline killed the rest of VK's court, certainly referring to The Fool, The Empress, The Hierophant, and The Moon. Counting with Marceline, VK's court was, thus, comprised of five people - equivalent to the number of vertices of a star. I can imagine that, seeing such a young and defenseless plebian girl (at least in their eyes) being taken under the VK's wing, they probably looked down upon her, not believing her to be worthy of being turned into a vampire, much less of acquiring such title. Thus, by killing them, it's almost like Marceline is proving herself, growing into her given title. Their deaths are tokens of her power.
14:59 - this universe is the opposite of our world, so I think the tarot cards would be dealt upside down, meaning they would offer the opposite meanings.
I definitely think the star relates more to how vk viewed her, she was the child blessed by night, she could go out in the sun kill with ease and make prey hollow. in our universe when she uses her powers her mom is scared making her think of herself as a monster, but in this one likely the opposite happened. She was congratulated for her kill rather than shunned. Like a sniper connecting a shot from afar she got a pat on the back for killing an innocent soul. Also something not mentioned that was kinda obvious to the point it doesn't need to be mentioned, we don't see the other tarots. She was taught by vk and slowly out powered each one of them one by one. Until now when she has all their powers and is turned. I think that's where the renewed self and hope for the future comes in. She was their future
also kinda fucked to think about but vk pitted her and the others against eachother once they realized what her powers can do. She grew up with them and then had to eat their souls. idk just sad to think about how they might have been family to her yet she killed them all the same.
@@SonaLovesick I'm especially sad about Hierophant and Empress Moon, because the former probably turned against VK when he started disrupting the natural order by overhunting their food and Marcy was forced to kill him, while the latter was probably the closest thing she'd have to a motherly figure after her real mom died.
Man I have been literally waiting for all your videos, when I saw them, I tought: I can wait to check it out with Uncivilized Elk. For me you are now part of the Adventure time universe !
i believe the ice crown doesn't work on already magical beings. there's a fionna and cake episode in the main series (i think the first one?) where cake puts it on and uses it, but isn't affected mentally. and if i'm remembering correctly a writer confirmed that was the reason on twitter. though that was a LONG time ago so i could be wrong
You ever think maybe throughout the fionna and cake series “the power” from Betty’s wish continued to keep Simon safe like maybe the VK did intend to team rocket Simon but betty even now is protecting him I guess this is all discounted by the fact he’s clearly aging but if u look at some of the events through that lense u could see the possibility for it here and there like how when there with prismo simon refuses to help or even continue walking yet he’s dragged to safety against his will I’m shure there’s more potential examples but just a thought.
Already pointed out it makes sense as an Inverted/Reversed Arcana. The Inverted Star represents basically the opposite of its normal form and would fit Marcy much better here. Plus, at the end, the last we see of PB and Marcy is them upside-down, spiraling toward the ground, which IMO is emphasizing the inverted arcana interpretation.
Something else to note in tarot is the connection between Marcy the Star, the VK (my assumption/headcanon being Emperor), and the Tower: On my first watch and researching of the relation between the VK and Marcy, not realizing that she became the Star arcana in tarot, Marcy finding herself a father figure in the VK made all the sense when you take into account important moments in Prime Marcy's life; without Simon, she had no support after the death of her mother, but he also didn't make the call to Hunson to help her while he was turning into the IK, meaning she's most likely never met him. Fast forward 1,000 years and we have this universe. After watching the episode again the tarot connections started to take place. Whatever interaction led to the VK and Marcy meeting would give the reversed Star a perfect match to the Emperor's authoritative stance while in the middle of the trauma and destruction around Marcy, main traits of the Tower. As the 1,000 years passed however, all three of these cards have turned the other way: Marcy is extremely happy in her new life and feels more than comfortable following her dad's whims, the VK's pure discipline has been tarnished thanks to the crown, giving him more of a carefree attitude toward everything, and the realization that the world they live in will eventually have no more sources of blood for the vampires will eventually turn into another disaster, but it seems like, at least for Marcy and the VK, they're biding whatever time they can in their nest before the Tower turns again.
I love this video! The Star was definitely one of my favorite episodes. Though I disagree with you on Marcy not fitting the star description. I think our original Marceline fits the description perfectly, while the reversed interpretation is for the vampire world's Marcy. Because she's so different it would make sense that she shows the other side of the otherwise very positive Star card
I know that technically nobody asked for this, but with everything we've learned about the VK, and everything we've learned about the Crown, here is my EXTREMELY thought out idea for how the Vampire King's story goes after this: Like you said, he begins to fall into depression as the last person he genuinely cares about perishes. With the Vampire resistance completely gone as far as he knows, he can't even really be angry or vengeful about it. His overeating of human civilizations goes from being an irrational miscalculation caused by the Crown to a coping mechanism, and he ends the life of every human or animal that he comes across, as his people start to starve and pass away. Then, one day when he simply can't find them anymore (Whether they die or get better at hiding or there aren't enough vampires to sustain his attacks, I haven't decided), he has a horrid realization. Now that he has the Crown, he _doesn't actually need to eat_ to survive, and is immortal regardless, meaning the only thing he succeeded in doing by over-hunting his food was dooming his species. Despite everything he was willing to do to keep his species alive beforehand, he has now condemned everyone he's ever known to a slow and painful death. He has a complete breakdown, and as the strength of his will disappears, the Crown finally starts transforming his body. His mane turns white, he nose turns long and pointy, and his skin turns blue, and his sense of identity erodes as he turns into the... Vampire Ice King? No, Ice Vampire sounds cooler, and he seems like the type of person who would willingly decide to stop calling himself "King" after something like that. Almost completely consumed by The Crown, he turns the Vampire nest into his Ice Kingdom, and similar to Ice king kidnapping Princesses because of his relationship with Betty, the Ice Vampire kidnaps people to pretend they're his daughter. He finds a random cow in a forest and turns it into a vampire so it can live forever, names it Gunther, and starts giving it any food he finds to cope with his previous failure to save the other vampires. Then he eventually dies when either 1: His crown gets de-powered because someone tries to use the Enchridion, and he dies of starvation instantly, 2: a vampire hunter uses a cure on him and turns him back into a normal lion, then kills said lion out of vengeful rage or 3: Baby Finn grows up to be a vampire hunter and stakes him. I definitely think that Finn might have fights with him during plenty of other parts of that and may even have a part in the vampires dying, but this general outline would stay the same.
I would love to hear what Uncivilised elk thinks of the prohibited wish ship or more thoughts on scarab when we see how he is treated by the other gods in the next episode.
13:24 The Star card can represent new hopes and revelations, but inverted can mean loss and despair, much like the situation of both Ooo and Marceline changing drastically due to the absence of Simon
I think it should be noted the Billy we see is the retired depressed Billy? Meaning that the threat of the VK forced him out of retirement and go against his ideology of helping people being ultimately meaningless. Unfortunately his final breath was used to warn others to turn back. Maybe if he was in his prime and had his gauntlet there could’ve been a different outcome.
1. Vampire World straight-up looks like Caelid (or at least that was the immediate comparison that jumped to mind) 2. Could Star Marceline be embodying the Star in reverse? (Hopelessness, Missed Opportunity, Possibilities Foreclosed, Despair)
It's interesting that your theory is that this word comes from the VK's wish. I personally assumed it was from some version of Simon that wished Marceline would have had a more permanent protector/father figure, though i didn't give that one too much thought, i was too busy trying to find what wish was made for the Winter King episode lol
A detail I have not seen anyone point out is the lack of candy people in the vampire world. Robot Pep But, and her comment about baby finn reflect the antinatal attitude PB got from this world, as compared to prime Ooo. So we never got the gumbald arc, lemongrab, rattleballs, any of them either. Not to mention how Neddy ended up in this reality.
Wow i used to watch your videos back when Adventure Time's main series was ending and i was still 12 or 13. Glad to see your still uploading. Thanks for doing these analyses/reviews. They're really great 💗❤💗
I think we all know 😭 In all seriousness, Bonnie not having blood means that she and Marcy were probably still on good terms when she became a vampire, until... _something_ happened, Neddy was killed, and The Star sucked out her eyeball in a fight. Possibly because of Pb trying to protect some of the humans and the Vampire King tearing them apart.
I was expecting ya to mention this other fella around 12:35 or so afterwards, since you check into almost every crevice of connected external info, (especially on stuff I know nothing about much like the meaning of the tarot cards) but I wonder what happened to Hudson Abadeer in the Vampire-world timeline?! Come to think of it, what would the relationships or connections be between the Vampire timeline here and the Nightosphere? Even the powers of Hudson & other implications....I mean, we've never seen Hudson ever interact with any of the vampires in modern Ooo or those Simon+Marcy distant past flashbacks! Anyone else noticed this or was it mostly me? Then again I have wondered about the relations some different dimensions have with some other alt universes/timelines, like say, the unknown relationship between the Crystal Dimension & Farmworld! Very curious (cuz I remember hearing how Farmworld Jake could or could not be part-alien like our classic Jake is, so how was Farmworld Jake born?)... OK lastly, lol Bubblegum kinda is a block-head with that short (cute!) buzzcut & Martin's sacrifice & demise legit made me feel crestfallen for the guy!
Since in the og timeline Simon summoned Hunson to take care of Marceline when he left her, it would make sense Hunson was never summoned in the Star timeline since the VK raised Marcy, with no need to summon him, and it seems Hunson can't really escape out of the Nightosphere on his own, preventing him from getting involved with Marceline at all
I think it's worth mentioning that in the color script for the episode HW was in her wizard form. With green skin and stuff. I'm not sure what this entails, but it's interesting. On the topic of color scripts (all of which you can find on King of Ooos Tumblr blog), there is a panel from ep10 color script that doesn't appear anywhere in the show at all and depicts HW's bedroom with a cloaked figure sitting next to someone sleeping? That combined with all previous HW teasing we got makes me feel like they're really cooking something here with her. Maybe for s2?
your reviews, speculation, and analysis of this series is really something! I love the ideas you conjure out of possible scenarios and hints, like the fate of the VK, the nature of Bonnie and Marcie's relationship, or the mushroom ecology. (as a fellow biology nerd that was fun to see haha) really looking forward to how you feel about the rest of Fionna and Cake, cheers! (heh)
Crown doesn't drive you crazy if you already are magical. Same with Jake and Gunter (when he used it to make ice snakes not when he wished on it). If the VK knows about vampires being able to eat "red" then they aren't really at risk of starving and Bonnie is wrong. The buildup with Marshall Lee's mother made me wonder if it was going to turn out that there actually was still some magic things in Fionna's universe and she was one of them. It could have been justified since the Nightosphere is a different dimension and could have been unaffected. They didn't go that route and probably there wouldn't have been any time to develop it properly if they had tried.
Honestly, I hope Fionna's world had some magic even before their insertion to the multiverse, because that universe would still need elementals, and even in the og timeline there was limited magic during the human era
13:32 I would argue that Marceline’s connection to the Star is supposed to be ironic. The Marceline we know in the normal Adventure Time timeline embodies a lot of the Stars more positive aspects but this Marceline is a perversion of that. The og Marceline also helped humans get to founders island by holding off the vampires, giving them a bright future. I guess og Marceline can be described as optimistic since she tried to reach out to Simon when he was Ice King and is generally willing to help people. You could argue she is technically “blessed by the universe” in that she is more borderline immortal (or at least ages absurdly slowly) and has a variety of powerful abilities. The renewed sense of self can be tied directly to her arc in the stakes mini series and her learning to come to terms with herself and her powers. It’s also important to remember that Tarot cards can also have different meanings if they’re reversed as opposed to right side up so this Marceline may very well also represent the Star in a reversed position which can mean despair, disappointments, illness, and missed opportunities. Illness seems unrelated but despair definitely relates to the decaying state of the world and missed opportunities probably relates to how Simon died before she could meet him as well as the hero she could’ve been.
Bonnie says that the Star "outlived" the rest of VK's inner circle. Does that mean the other vampires from Stakes fell during the thousand year war against the survivors? Or, the much darker possibility, did the Star consume their souls in order to gain their powers? There's no definitive answer, I don't think she uses any power exclusive from the vampires.
Let me just say, thank you for these reviews, they are truly awesome! Hope everything is alright with you seeing how it took some time for this release but I guess most UA-camrs have a life apart from this ;)
oOoOO Uncivilized Elk! You're back, woohoo! Also could you do a quick overview/ compare & contrast of the new Scavengers Reign, I'm quite enjoying it at the moment.
Thinking about tarot I viewed Marceline's role as the Star more as a reflection of the card's position in the Major Arcana: the Star comes after the Tower, as a symbol of faith and hope saving after a catastrophic event. It might symbolize Vampire King's faith in Marceline obscuring the reality of his kingdom's inevitable end, but more ironically the hope that his reign (and also his castle, consisting of basically one weirdly-shaped tower) would fall and Marceline's redemption could turn that world around
Can we also talk about how Evil Marcy has all the powers she received/stole from the upper vampires she fought in the original universe? How does that go? Does that mean VK let her kill them in this universe so she could have their powers? The fact that they're absent from the vampire world kinda speaks for that too I think.
Great video, man! I think I have a way (at least personally) of explaining why the vamp world Huntress was human. I’ve had a head canon that most of the humanoid species in Ooo Prime were originally human populations that were bathed in mutagenic magic in the fallout from the mushroom war. Given the large density of human settlements and populations throughout vamp world, I think it’s safe to say that this universe’s version of the mushroom war was far less destructive and mutagenic in nature (possibly making it so the Lich couldn’t manifest). If this is the case, then the human populations that were mutated into tree/water/cloud peoples in Ooo would still be regular humans and comprise the dominant species on the planet. Accordingly, Huntress would likely be born of human parents.
Has nobody thought about that maybe this is the universe where evergreens plan either work or he decided to work with the other elementals, and they survived that Gunter didn’t infect the crown with madness that it’s just a Wishon crown that lets whoever wears it make one wish and vk probably just stole it from Evergreen
"Tarot Motifs: Upright, the Star represents hope, faith, purpose, renewal, and spirituality. Pretty fitting for the main universe Marceline who thanks to Simon’s influence grew up to be humanity's protector from the vampire threat. *Inverted,* it represents lack of faith, despair, self-trust, and disconnection. The Marceline of this universe didn't have Simon in her life to help steer her on the right path and instead was raised and corrupted by the Vampire King into his second-in-command, helping to turn Ooo into a vampire-dominated nightmare with the human population having no one other than Bonnie's crew to protect them, and even that ends up not lasting for very long." - AdventureTimeMultiverse page of Characters from tvtropes
One thing I wish happened was for Fionna to acknowledge Martin as being (presumably) an alternate-reality version of her mom. It didn't seem like she recognized him at all
The only explanation I could think of is that Finn only found out about his dad due to Billy's ghost telling him, but if Fionna has no connections to her world's Billy then it's possible she's never met her mom before.
Gary doesn't know how long he's known Fionna and the city itself seems to exist around a white void. That makes me think that the characters of Fionnaworld don't really have too much in terms of personal stories. They just....exist. Fionna might not have parents because Martin wasn't a factor when Prismo wrote the story.
@@matti.8465yeah but it seems he created them already knowing finn and jake and the earliest we see ice king show them off to them is season 3 and he wouldn't meet them for another season. I'm wondering if time isnt linear for Prismo
this was my fav episode in this show. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the possibility of drinking red is still a thing vampires can do. that's what i thought with marcy's hesitation when bonnie mentioned the blood supply being drained, like she was going to tell her hey there's no worry of starvation actually bc we can just drink red, but thought against telling her bc she knew bonnie would be enraged that they just hadn't been doing that the whole time. but maybe in this universe, drinking red isn't a thing. I like to hope it still is tho. would give some hope for that world.
i think in this case the star would apply more directly to simon's journey through this episode, seeing what marcy became without him giving him a renewed sense of self, directly contrasting his claims earlier in the series that she'd be fine without him which already showcased his low self worth also i think the vampire king going "i've seen a new thing" after seeing cake and and gang teleport away using the remote hints at him already heading towards the same kind of depression he had in stakes, where he was tired of everything having seen it all before, but likely no longer falling into that depression now that he knows there are still yet new things to experience that he could not conceive of before and it makes me wonder if he might eventually find his way to prismo and the greater multiverse in general as a result
In Tarot cards, there is a concept called reversing a card, where the meaning becomes the exact opposite. Marceline was a good person who was lead astray by the VK, so she's a reversed Star. Normally Star means hope and prospects for a brighter future, the pouring water on the card's picture signifies healing and propserous abundance. But in the vampire takover timeline, Marceline symbolizes hopelessness, a dark future, pain/suffering and things being unrightfully taken away or resources (blood I guess) being greedily sucked out of you. Marceline is CAUSING all those things I just said, but is also a victim of all those exact same things happening to her, due to the VK corrupting her good nature and forcing a dark future upon her.
Also, the Star typically comes right after the Tower (the card of tragedy and grave misfortune) to signify somone having passed through hard times which are now over and are beginning to improve---since it's reversed, the dark times and doom are not receding, they are growing. The Tower's growing in influence with the help of the Star...... Actually, the vampire headquarters probably IS literally supposed to be the Tower Tarot.
wow.
i'm glad someone mentioned it, i was about to be very annoying about it :p
exactly what i tought! ty for this comment
Thank you! ❤️ I came here to say this.
Yeah!!! This is a lot like what I was thinking when I made the connection back to tarot cause I kinda forgot about that theme in the show. Where the Star upright feels like a good arcana for Marcy in our Ooo, especially for her following Stakes and Obsidian, this timeline is reversed due to VK's corrupting influence on her.
This episode really show you how truly important Simon was not to only Marceline but to all of Ooo if this is what Ooo future look like if Marceline never became a vampire hunter and wiped out all of the vampires.
F&C had strong themes of predeterminism/destiny and acceptance. Not strangers to the original show, but so much deeper and personal as they relate to Simon's story.
It also shows how much important the Crown was to the story. If Simon never wore the crown, he would've died either in the mushroom war or killed by the vampires,who would still be around because Marceline(becoming evil) wouldn't have killed them
Marcy looks so _chefs kiss_ in this episode, being a villain just ups ur drip game i suppose
my goal is to look like a JoJo Stan villain
peak fashion
It works thematically as well imo. Through out AT Marcy has always had a tomboyish vibe to her fashion. In The Star, she's inverted. Her goals and personality have flipped into something almost unrecognisable. As does her fashion. I can't see original Marcy wearing such frilly get up, even though it does look *chk chk* 👌
I just wanna note that the moment where PB screams "I'm not a loser" at Marceline really stuck with me. With this and the Candy Queen, Hynden Walsh showed some serious range in just these AU versions. It's so rare to see a character like Bubblegum just briefly break down like that. It reminded me a lot of that scene in Varmints? It really shows how good Marceline is at provoking strong emotional reactions from her. Marceline always seems to know exactly what buttons to push and how to break her normal facade, for good or bad.
Something I found interesting about the Star is the fact that she had her powers. Stuff like flight and shapeshifting. Ya know, the powers that prime Marceline got only after consuming the souls of the Major Arcana members? I like to think that maybe as each of them died one by one she took their powers to get some more use from them? Either that or she herself killed them to be the last of the Major Arcana or something.
It kinda makes sense. We only saw her use flight and shapeshifting-- which means the Fool and Hierophant. I can easily see the Fool being eliminated just because his powers could be put to better use-- as Marceline clearly doesn't value vampire lives besides VK. Otherwise, just based on Stakes- I can't imagine the Hierophant would easily fall in line with VK. Maybe Marceline had to take him out? I could see most of the others being slowly worn down over a thousand years, but it's not hard to imagine them being killed by some of the early people fighting back. Except the Moon tbh.
@@jaredhall5169 Yeah. I have no idea how the Moon would've been killed by anyone/anything other than Marceline. She was able to survive multiple stakes stabbing her while in the sun.
I like to imagine it in a similar scenario to how Anakin absolutely slaughtered Palpatine's allies, being ordered to do so by Palpatine himself
@@jaredhall5169 Considering what Hierophant says about disrupting the natural order in "Stakes", I think he would absolutely DESPISE the Vampire King when the Crown started making him crazy and he began over-hunting their food.
I always see this Vampire World being made by a wish by Betty or Marceline.
Like if Betty or Marceline wished for Simon to never have found the Ice Crown.
Actually, I believe winter king’s world was Marcy’s wish of Simon being sane. This world i think fits better for a wish made by Bonnie, specifically wishing that Marcy would get along with her dad. This comes mostly by the nature of Prismo’s wishes, always backfiring on the wisher and in this universe I think Bonnie had the worst cards dealt, tragically creating a word where she’s got no candy kingdom, most her friends are dead and her girlfriend is evil incarnated + the loss of an eye of course
@@boo9781The sane Ice King world wouldn't make sense, since the reason that Simon kept his sanity was because he transfers the crown's curse of mental illness to his universe's Princess Bubblegum.
If Marcy did wish for a universe where Simon wore the crown but kept his sanity, I don't think it would be through the method of transferring the insanity to Princess Bubblegum
@@hish33p32 remember that people don’t usually word their wishes that specifically, for example, when Finn wished for the lich to not exist he probably was thinking of the lich disappearing, not of the mushroom bomb failing to blow up and causing all of his friends to be dead or not exist and magic as a whole being gone. Prismo doesn’t just grant the wish, he creates a world in which narratively the wish makes sense, like with Wyatt’s wish, he doesn’t make things silent just because, he creates a world based on a silent film. With this in mind, if Marcy were to wish for Simon’s sanity Prismo would create a world in which he got his sanity regardless of how it has to happen. My personal theory is that Marcy died in the presence of Ice king and PB and from the grief and pain he casted a spell onto PB that transferred his insanity. This would also explain the backfire for Marcy as her wish got her killed, caused her girlfriend to become deranged and Simon to become an asshole
@@boo9781 makes sense, but there's also hundreds of other ways for it to happen if Prismo created a universe specifically for Marcy's wish to make Simon remain sane while wearing the crown
@@hish33p32nah that's actually the reason I believe marceline DID do it. It's a very fitting monkey paw. Basically all of Prismo's wishes have them. Marceline wishes that Simon was no longer mad and the monkey paw is that he transfers the madness to your girlfriend instead
PB's crew is a massive reference to the cult classic film Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust. A post apocalyptic crew of vampire hunters rolling around in a tank, and the first to die is the crew's big guy who's wielding a hammer/stake weapon
Damn,why i didn't realize that
Damn it, I'm not the only one who thought so!

Marcy's title of 'The Star' kind of brings to mind 'star of the show', suiting her love of musical performance (at least in better worlds.)
the star episode made me reaaaally understand what marceline meant by saying "he's right i could've snapped and done you all in anytime" in stakes like yikes she could have but she didn't bc she was raised and taught well by simon
It was both cool but sad at the same time to see an evil version of Marceline. Cool because her outfits were amazing and Olivia Olson sounded like she was having a blast voicing her. But sad because the character that so many of us grew up loving and admiring could have easily turned out evil if Simon had not taken care of her when she was little.
I like to believe that buff baby Finn became the vampire slayer like Marceline in the og universe.
I would love to read fanfic of this idea
Did you look at the meanings for the star when it is reversed? I feel like that is a far more accurate view when sticking to the Tarot parallel. Cause from Simon's perspective the reversed card matches his feelings perfectly.
Hope you’re doing alright man. Just want to say I appreciate you for your passion about this show and for the effort you put in to your videos. I check back here often to see if you post anything and it’s okay if you don’t. I just hope despite anything, you feel some happiness because you’ve given that to me through your work. ❤
I love how Cake spelled her name “Caek” to hint at her “catness” that keeps popping back up, and also because that’s how cute “cat speak” would spell it. Liek, I can haz caek plz?! Gime caek for noms plz… etc. haha so it worked both ways. Choosing to spell like a cat, or just being a cat and not understanding how to spell properly yet. Either way is still funny.
Cake being an actual cat is my favorite running joke, and I hope she never grows out of it. As much as I love Jake, he rarely if ever acted like a dog unless he chose to on purpose. So it’s nice seeing a sentient talking cat still thinking a person would want a bloody rodent, or how she says “I saw something that scared me and I whacked it into a corner all by myself!” Hahaha that’s the most catlike thing ever! Just panic and whack it!
I've got several notes and personal theories.
first. The Ice Vampire King & his personality:
His personality. I think you could flip a coin on whether or not his mind was warped.
The VK we were familiar with in Stakes had more time to dwell in introspection and reflect on his existance after being defeated by Marceline.
Ice VK is a version who never tasted total defeat, only (mostly) constant victory. So he's probably never been put in a position to think "maybe being a Vampire actually sucks donkey butts".
If the Ice Crown did effect him, it's probably why he failed to see the problem with Vampires over-hunting their food supply.
*Next* The Ice Crown...
1) You do not need to be the *Master* of the Ice Crown to use it's powers; As Gunter displayed when he was given it to rebuild the Ice Kingdom while Ice King roomed with Finn and Jake.
So there might be some sad and insane white-haired Vampire writhing around somewhere, while the VK reaps the rewards of using the Ice Crown.
2) The Vampire King is our first real magical Master of the Ice Crown. A dinosaur and like, six humans are the majority of it's victims/Masters. (note: The Penguin/Eldritch Monster Gunter does not count for this, since he Wished himself into being his perception of Ice King with the reset Crown)
The Vampire King is powerful and magical enough that he could've used a Focusing Charm like Evergreen mentioned, and overcame the Crown's negative powers.
Or his Vampiric status rendered the negative effects of the Crown moot. Since Vampires do not age, he won't show physical signs.
It's also possible that being as magical as he is, his mind could not be negatively effected like the non-magical Humans we've seen go crazy were.
*And* *Next* Huntress and Huntress Wizard:
I think Huntress to Huntress Wizard is like Choose Bruce to Choose Goose, and Bobby to Billy.
Somewhere in her ancestry in the main universe we are familiar with, HW had human ancestors that were mutated.
Meanwhile things in Vampire World are not magical enough to mutate Huntress's ancestors. But things were still magical enough to create Billy and Bonnie.
Bonnie:
If she's made of gum in this universe. She *might* survive the fall. Since in several episodes of the original series, she's been shown to survive things such as half her head being taken off by Ice King or being shattered into many pieces.
*Neddy*
The absolute most concerning detail, moreso than any other world beside maybe Winter King's reality, is the fact we aren't aware of his present status in this universe.
I think Neddy's death may have been the key event to set Bonnie on her Vampire Slaying path. Since, otherwise, I feel even with an injury caused by The Star, Bonnie would've been perfectly fine with bunkering down and waiting out the extinction of the Vampires instead.
I love the idea that neddy dies and it turns Bonnie into a vamp hunter. It would align with Bonnie and marcy starting a relationship but it turning sour!
I like the idea about Neddy, PB would have no reason to save Humans or attack the vampires as long as the vampires dont touch her brother or eventual candy people. We have been shown time and time again that she is willing to do pretty horrible stuff for her people
Since the vampire King's eyes are blue, he is definitely being affected by the crown, just as Ice Finn was. I think his magical powers and overall stronger willpower is why he hasn't really turned, but I also think that when Marcy dies and he starts realizing that overhunting their food has doomed his kind to extinction (and more importantly, once he realizes that wearing the crown means he didn't actually have to eat in the first place), he's going to have a complete breakdown and will go full Ice Vampire.
if Bonnie survived the fall, the hundreds of vampires behind her likely killed her anyway.
I think part of the Tarot arcanum in this case does have to deal with the ending, in Bonnie and The Star literally being upside down, implying it's the reversal of what The Star would typically mean. In universe and more generally though, I do agree that it's moreso the VK feeling like she's his shining star.
I find the deaths of the other main vampires interesting too considering that The Star has a lot of the powers she originally got from sucking their souls, primarily Shapeshifting but Flight as well. It gave the implication to me that The Star killed them, either from her 'dad's' influence or on her own accord. Perhaps she obtained the powers through directly training with VK, but that's admittedly not a preferred option of mine lol.
The nature of the Star arcanum also applies to Gary and Marshall’s relationship in this episode, since how Marshall was hoping his sacrifice could enable Gary to pursue the bright, hopeful future he wanted.
And in the end, Gary’s being the one to tell Marshall that his happiness is worth more than the approval of some investors inspires him to cut his mom out of his life forever, and the two of them leave the part with that renewed sense of self and hope associated with the Star card.
And what do you call someone who goes vampire? Turned.
Star upside down: Lack of faith, despair, self-trust, disconnection
And they literally leave in an elevator! Opposite to how Marcy and PB(reversed) left…
This episode serves as the 100% full confirmation that Martin Mertens was heroic deep at heart and that his head injury from the guardian is what caused him to spiral down his rabbit hole.
This episode doesn't confirm anything...
Oh, if the world became ravished by Vampires and not...just a sanctuary where people live normal lives Martin can't scam people for his own personal gain. We already knew he wasn't heartless, nobody thought he was a complete monster...
I can't help but think that choosing "The Star" among the Arcana is also, in some sense, a tongue-in-cheek joke about prime Marcy being a literal rock star.
And the descriptions also fit prime Marceline's character arc too. She was always singing new songs on the spot, she hung out with Finn and Jake always being the life of the party, she was very modest about herself and when she and bubblegum started hanging out again she felt like a new version of herself. I think the Star tarot is definitely prime Marceline tarot.
My head canon for baby world is that they are all immortal and immune to lasting damage.
Baby Universe was a universe based on safety after all!
this episode did something we never believed to be possible finding it sad that finn dad dies
im genuinely so sad that it isn't established that baby finn grew up in the vampire world, theres so many ways you could run with that idea, having finn grow up with the pepbut tank, perhaps befriended bonnie and marcy and somehow be a link between them, maybe he would fight against the vampires but ultimately appreciate certain characteristics of marcy, soooo fun to think about i thought so much about it before episode 10
Regarding the arcana thing, I've seen people interpreting evil marcy as the embodiment of the card being upside down, which suverts the original meaning and fits her better. Given the way she and pb falling at the end was contrasted with their alternative selves going up in an elevator, I tend to agree with this interpretation
They're actually descending in the elevator as well, btw.
I found the reversed meanings of the Star (which are basically just opposites of the regular associations) to not fit too great for evil Marceline either, but thanks to some comments here, I can see how it can tie into the state of Vampworld and the effect evil Marceline had on the environment, and how the remaining humans/the resistance views evil Marceline/what feelings she invokes in them.
I Interpreted the vampire universe as Marceline's wish universe. Perhaps Marceline wished that Simon never wore the ice crown in the first place. Prismo's wishes do tend to have a monkey paw aspect to them, so it would make sense it backfired on her so badly.
My question is how she still exists in prime Ooo if she made the wish. I mean had Jake not reverted the Lich’s / Finn’s wish, Finn would still be stuck in Farmworld.
What I find interesting is how the Tarot theme is used with the epithet Star for Marceline where she represents the reverse of the card where it means loss and despair. If only Marcy could learn about new hope and revelations that could've helped the vampires survive or create a symbiosis with other creatures.
Glad you're back! There sure is a lot more to unpack with the rest of this show, and can't wait to see the rest of your takes and analyses 👊
I think it’s important to note that the reverse arcana also applies to Marcy in this episode. As she is plummeting to her inevitable demise it represents the loss of hope and faith. The reverse means hopelessness, despair, a lack of faith, creativity, and boredom. Perhaps the reverse describes the situation at hand and how the vampires are complacent and how the VK will feel despair once the star passes away
the way i interpret the star arcana is, like you said, upright represents the VK's/ vampirekinds' hope and light, while reversed perfectly encompasses the insecurity and hopelessness from the resistance's point of view
Worth the wait. You analysis of episodes tend to be more profound than others compared to the likes of "reviews" or glorified summaries. Loved your comparisons to The Star and theories surrounding the environment of the Vamp world. Def helped me see the episode from a different perspective.
I know a lot of people mentioned that The Star is actually in reverse but I wanted to say that what I really liked about hunter’s death is the tarot imagery. I counted 7 arrows on them- 7 of Swords which represent things like scheming, cunning, tatics, manipulation, lies, trickery/cheating etc. can also represent spies
Also I think Gary and Marshall represent The Star upright!
the vampire king is already cursed. He's a weird chimera lion thing. He's cursed to never walk in the sun again, unless curses can stack.
Unless one curse turns you into a fire demon while another curse turns you into an ice wizard, curses can definitely stack and overlap. The Vampire King overhunting his food and having a general lack of care for his people is a side affect of the Ice Crown.
Those last three minutes have to be the most impressively shot in all of Adventure Time. Legitimately tops most prestige television
Finn obviously didnt wake up when getting smooshed because hes a tough tootin baby
Oh my! You post again?? You were my favourite channel at some time! Then you stopped for your reasons and i thought you would not come back! Im so glad you're back man
Another thing too, Marcy is able to fly anf float due to Vamp powers, we don't see any of the other powers but given HW comment about "The Star outliving the VK's Entourage", could that mean that Marcy killed them before the VK was able to make his wish?
this episode had me in SHOCK as i watched every member of bonnie's crew get killed. the final scene gave me literal chills!
One point: I would argue that because Simon's corpse in the Vampire world didn't have blue skin or white hair, the time-line we're seeing is one where Simon never put on the crown at all.
This could mean that the reality is the result of somebody, possibly Betty or even Simon himself, wishing that Simon never wore the crown. Prismo's wishes usually have a monkey's-paw type twist, so Vampire King wishing for Marceline to be his ally and getting exactly what he wanted doesn't seem consistent.
First point is possible, although why Simon split from Betty in that case is a new unknown.
The VK did get what he wanted, until the Star died that is. Now he's a Crowned King without companions apart from the minions and nothing to really live for, so I see that as monkey paw enough.
But yeah there's tons of potential wishes that could have led to this reality.
14:20 While this may be true, I also like to believe Marceline's nickname to hold more meaning than its Tarot symbolism (which is, by all means, already very meaningful).
When briefing Simon, Fionna and Cake on their plan, Huntress claims that The Star "has outlived the rest of his [The Vampire King's] inner circle, most likely a euphemistic allusion to the idea that Marceline killed the rest of VK's court, certainly referring to The Fool, The Empress, The Hierophant, and The Moon.
Counting with Marceline, VK's court was, thus, comprised of five people - equivalent to the number of vertices of a star. I can imagine that, seeing such a young and defenseless plebian girl (at least in their eyes) being taken under the VK's wing, they probably looked down upon her, not believing her to be worthy of being turned into a vampire, much less of acquiring such title. Thus, by killing them, it's almost like Marceline is proving herself, growing into her given title. Their deaths are tokens of her power.
14:59 - this universe is the opposite of our world, so I think the tarot cards would be dealt upside down, meaning they would offer the opposite meanings.
I love watching your reviews, it's like getting to enjoy the episode for the first time all over again.
I definitely think the star relates more to how vk viewed her, she was the child blessed by night, she could go out in the sun kill with ease and make prey hollow. in our universe when she uses her powers her mom is scared making her think of herself as a monster, but in this one likely the opposite happened. She was congratulated for her kill rather than shunned. Like a sniper connecting a shot from afar she got a pat on the back for killing an innocent soul.
Also something not mentioned that was kinda obvious to the point it doesn't need to be mentioned, we don't see the other tarots. She was taught by vk and slowly out powered each one of them one by one. Until now when she has all their powers and is turned. I think that's where the renewed self and hope for the future comes in. She was their future
also kinda fucked to think about but vk pitted her and the others against eachother once they realized what her powers can do. She grew up with them and then had to eat their souls. idk just sad to think about how they might have been family to her yet she killed them all the same.
@@SonaLovesick I'm especially sad about Hierophant and Empress Moon, because the former probably turned against VK when he started disrupting the natural order by overhunting their food and Marcy was forced to kill him, while the latter was probably the closest thing she'd have to a motherly figure after her real mom died.
Man I have been literally waiting for all your videos, when I saw them, I tought: I can wait to check it out with Uncivilized Elk. For me you are now part of the Adventure time universe !
I shall wait patiently for the last three. You’re the best AT breakdowns guy by far
i believe the ice crown doesn't work on already magical beings. there's a fionna and cake episode in the main series (i think the first one?) where cake puts it on and uses it, but isn't affected mentally. and if i'm remembering correctly a writer confirmed that was the reason on twitter. though that was a LONG time ago so i could be wrong
You ever think maybe throughout the fionna and cake series “the power” from Betty’s wish continued to keep Simon safe like maybe the VK did intend to team rocket Simon but betty even now is protecting him I guess this is all discounted by the fact he’s clearly aging but if u look at some of the events through that lense u could see the possibility for it here and there like how when there with prismo simon refuses to help or even continue walking yet he’s dragged to safety against his will I’m shure there’s more potential examples but just a thought.
Already pointed out it makes sense as an Inverted/Reversed Arcana. The Inverted Star represents basically the opposite of its normal form and would fit Marcy much better here. Plus, at the end, the last we see of PB and Marcy is them upside-down, spiraling toward the ground, which IMO is emphasizing the inverted arcana interpretation.
Baby Finn is a tough tooting baby. A little weight is nothing to him.
Something else to note in tarot is the connection between Marcy the Star, the VK (my assumption/headcanon being Emperor), and the Tower:
On my first watch and researching of the relation between the VK and Marcy, not realizing that she became the Star arcana in tarot, Marcy finding herself a father figure in the VK made all the sense when you take into account important moments in Prime Marcy's life; without Simon, she had no support after the death of her mother, but he also didn't make the call to Hunson to help her while he was turning into the IK, meaning she's most likely never met him. Fast forward 1,000 years and we have this universe.
After watching the episode again the tarot connections started to take place. Whatever interaction led to the VK and Marcy meeting would give the reversed Star a perfect match to the Emperor's authoritative stance while in the middle of the trauma and destruction around Marcy, main traits of the Tower. As the 1,000 years passed however, all three of these cards have turned the other way: Marcy is extremely happy in her new life and feels more than comfortable following her dad's whims, the VK's pure discipline has been tarnished thanks to the crown, giving him more of a carefree attitude toward everything, and the realization that the world they live in will eventually have no more sources of blood for the vampires will eventually turn into another disaster, but it seems like, at least for Marcy and the VK, they're biding whatever time they can in their nest before the Tower turns again.
I love this video! The Star was definitely one of my favorite episodes. Though I disagree with you on Marcy not fitting the star description. I think our original Marceline fits the description perfectly, while the reversed interpretation is for the vampire world's Marcy. Because she's so different it would make sense that she shows the other side of the otherwise very positive Star card
the video I've been waiting for, it's so nice to hear your voice again :)
so glad you're back and making awesome insighful reviews.
I know that technically nobody asked for this, but with everything we've learned about the VK, and everything we've learned about the Crown, here is my EXTREMELY thought out idea for how the Vampire King's story goes after this:
Like you said, he begins to fall into depression as the last person he genuinely cares about perishes. With the Vampire resistance completely gone as far as he knows, he can't even really be angry or vengeful about it. His overeating of human civilizations goes from being an irrational miscalculation caused by the Crown to a coping mechanism, and he ends the life of every human or animal that he comes across, as his people start to starve and pass away. Then, one day when he simply can't find them anymore (Whether they die or get better at hiding or there aren't enough vampires to sustain his attacks, I haven't decided), he has a horrid realization.
Now that he has the Crown, he _doesn't actually need to eat_ to survive, and is immortal regardless, meaning the only thing he succeeded in doing by over-hunting his food was dooming his species. Despite everything he was willing to do to keep his species alive beforehand, he has now condemned everyone he's ever known to a slow and painful death.
He has a complete breakdown, and as the strength of his will disappears, the Crown finally starts transforming his body. His mane turns white, he nose turns long and pointy, and his skin turns blue, and his sense of identity erodes as he turns into the... Vampire Ice King? No, Ice Vampire sounds cooler, and he seems like the type of person who would willingly decide to stop calling himself "King" after something like that. Almost completely consumed by The Crown, he turns the Vampire nest into his Ice Kingdom, and similar to Ice king kidnapping Princesses because of his relationship with Betty, the Ice Vampire kidnaps people to pretend they're his daughter.
He finds a random cow in a forest and turns it into a vampire so it can live forever, names it Gunther, and starts giving it any food he finds to cope with his previous failure to save the other vampires. Then he eventually dies when either 1: His crown gets de-powered because someone tries to use the Enchridion, and he dies of starvation instantly, 2: a vampire hunter uses a cure on him and turns him back into a normal lion, then kills said lion out of vengeful rage or 3: Baby Finn grows up to be a vampire hunter and stakes him. I definitely think that Finn might have fights with him during plenty of other parts of that and may even have a part in the vampires dying, but this general outline would stay the same.
we’re so back
can’t wait for jerry’s review
Marcie being "The Star" also works in the sense that she gave Simon a newfound sense of self, in seeing what an affect he had on her in his universe
I would love to hear what Uncivilised elk thinks of the prohibited wish ship or more thoughts on scarab when we see how he is treated by the other gods in the next episode.
13:24 The Star card can represent new hopes and revelations, but inverted can mean loss and despair, much like the situation of both Ooo and Marceline changing drastically due to the absence of Simon
I think it should be noted the Billy we see is the retired depressed Billy? Meaning that the threat of the VK forced him out of retirement and go against his ideology of helping people being ultimately meaningless.
Unfortunately his final breath was used to warn others to turn back. Maybe if he was in his prime and had his gauntlet there could’ve been a different outcome.
1. Vampire World straight-up looks like Caelid (or at least that was the immediate comparison that jumped to mind)
2. Could Star Marceline be embodying the Star in reverse? (Hopelessness, Missed Opportunity, Possibilities Foreclosed, Despair)
Good to have you back, hope u are doin alright ❤❤❤
It's interesting that your theory is that this word comes from the VK's wish. I personally assumed it was from some version of Simon that wished Marceline would have had a more permanent protector/father figure, though i didn't give that one too much thought, i was too busy trying to find what wish was made for the Winter King episode lol
A detail I have not seen anyone point out is the lack of candy people in the vampire world. Robot Pep But, and her comment about baby finn reflect the antinatal attitude PB got from this world, as compared to prime Ooo. So we never got the gumbald arc, lemongrab, rattleballs, any of them either. Not to mention how Neddy ended up in this reality.
I don't think I've seen anyone say this, but welcome back Elk! We missed you!
I'm so glad you tube notified me of this video, I love your reviews!
The VK raised marcline demon side while Simon raised her human side
Wow i used to watch your videos back when Adventure Time's main series was ending and i was still 12 or 13. Glad to see your still uploading. Thanks for doing these analyses/reviews. They're really great 💗❤💗
it's so lovely to have you back!!!!
Super exited that you're back!
Love your videos
Yes, I'm watching all reviews of this episode because I found it insanely beautiful
"How do you know the Star's true name!?"
Better question PB, how do *YOU* know the Star's true name?
I wish they give us answers😞
I think we all know 😭
In all seriousness, Bonnie not having blood means that she and Marcy were probably still on good terms when she became a vampire, until... _something_ happened, Neddy was killed, and The Star sucked out her eyeball in a fight. Possibly because of Pb trying to protect some of the humans and the Vampire King tearing them apart.
Always love hearing your reviews! Can't wait for the next one!
I think the star card is reversed potentially to make the reference make more sense.
I was expecting ya to mention this other fella around 12:35 or so afterwards, since you check into almost every crevice of connected external info, (especially on stuff I know nothing about much like the meaning of the tarot cards) but I wonder what happened to Hudson Abadeer in the Vampire-world timeline?! Come to think of it, what would the relationships or connections be between the Vampire timeline here and the Nightosphere? Even the powers of Hudson & other implications....I mean, we've never seen Hudson ever interact with any of the vampires in modern Ooo or those Simon+Marcy distant past flashbacks! Anyone else noticed this or was it mostly me?
Then again I have wondered about the relations some different dimensions have with some other alt universes/timelines, like say, the unknown relationship between the Crystal Dimension & Farmworld! Very curious (cuz I remember hearing how Farmworld Jake could or could not be part-alien like our classic Jake is, so how was Farmworld Jake born?)... OK lastly, lol Bubblegum kinda is a block-head with that short (cute!) buzzcut & Martin's sacrifice & demise legit made me feel crestfallen for the guy!
Since in the og timeline Simon summoned Hunson to take care of Marceline when he left her, it would make sense Hunson was never summoned in the Star timeline since the VK raised Marcy, with no need to summon him, and it seems Hunson can't really escape out of the Nightosphere on his own, preventing him from getting involved with Marceline at all
My prayers have been approved! Your back!
It’s always a good day when you upload
Great analysis as always 👍
Take your time, we'll be here.
I think it's worth mentioning that in the color script for the episode HW was in her wizard form. With green skin and stuff. I'm not sure what this entails, but it's interesting.
On the topic of color scripts (all of which you can find on King of Ooos Tumblr blog), there is a panel from ep10 color script that doesn't appear anywhere in the show at all and depicts HW's bedroom with a cloaked figure sitting next to someone sleeping? That combined with all previous HW teasing we got makes me feel like they're really cooking something here with her. Maybe for s2?
your reviews, speculation, and analysis of this series is really something! I love the ideas you conjure out of possible scenarios and hints, like the fate of the VK, the nature of Bonnie and Marcie's relationship, or the mushroom ecology. (as a fellow biology nerd that was fun to see haha)
really looking forward to how you feel about the rest of Fionna and Cake, cheers! (heh)
been watching you for a while, and i just finished this series. i love your videos so much
Ngl, i agree with you, i would have loved to imagine PepTank with Baby Fin kick the buns of the vampires
Crown doesn't drive you crazy if you already are magical. Same with Jake and Gunter (when he used it to make ice snakes not when he wished on it).
If the VK knows about vampires being able to eat "red" then they aren't really at risk of starving and Bonnie is wrong.
The buildup with Marshall Lee's mother made me wonder if it was going to turn out that there actually was still some magic things in Fionna's universe and she was one of them. It could have been justified since the Nightosphere is a different dimension and could have been unaffected. They didn't go that route and probably there wouldn't have been any time to develop it properly if they had tried.
Honestly, I hope Fionna's world had some magic even before their insertion to the multiverse, because that universe would still need elementals, and even in the og timeline there was limited magic during the human era
13:32 I would argue that Marceline’s connection to the Star is supposed to be ironic. The Marceline we know in the normal Adventure Time timeline embodies a lot of the Stars more positive aspects but this Marceline is a perversion of that.
The og Marceline also helped humans get to founders island by holding off the vampires, giving them a bright future. I guess og Marceline can be described as optimistic since she tried to reach out to Simon when he was Ice King and is generally willing to help people. You could argue she is technically “blessed by the universe” in that she is more borderline immortal (or at least ages absurdly slowly) and has a variety of powerful abilities. The renewed sense of self can be tied directly to her arc in the stakes mini series and her learning to come to terms with herself and her powers.
It’s also important to remember that Tarot cards can also have different meanings if they’re reversed as opposed to right side up so this Marceline may very well also represent the Star in a reversed position which can mean despair, disappointments, illness, and missed opportunities. Illness seems unrelated but despair definitely relates to the decaying state of the world and missed opportunities probably relates to how Simon died before she could meet him as well as the hero she could’ve been.
Bonnie says that the Star "outlived" the rest of VK's inner circle. Does that mean the other vampires from Stakes fell during the thousand year war against the survivors? Or, the much darker possibility, did the Star consume their souls in order to gain their powers? There's no definitive answer, I don't think she uses any power exclusive from the vampires.
she uses The Fool's power of flight and The Hierophant's power of shapeshifting so she has killed and absorbed at least 2 out of the 5 bigwig vamps
Let me just say, thank you for these reviews, they are truly awesome!
Hope everything is alright with you seeing how it took some time for this release but I guess most UA-camrs have a life apart from this ;)
Let’s go been waiting for this video can’t wait for the finale video
So happy to see this upload! I been waiting and this wait was worth it ❤
But why Vampire King was not affected by the crown's magic turning him into a sort of Evergreen?
Ironically Marceline could actually eat the red fungi if she wanted to. She could drink the red assuming she hasn't been made a full vampire somehow.
Every vampire can just eat red colored stuff, it's just that all of them prefer the taste of blood lol
oOoOO Uncivilized Elk! You're back, woohoo!
Also could you do a quick overview/ compare & contrast of the new Scavengers Reign, I'm quite enjoying it at the moment.
Elk back with the best analyses in the game!
Thinking about tarot I viewed Marceline's role as the Star more as a reflection of the card's position in the Major Arcana: the Star comes after the Tower, as a symbol of faith and hope saving after a catastrophic event. It might symbolize Vampire King's faith in Marceline obscuring the reality of his kingdom's inevitable end, but more ironically the hope that his reign (and also his castle, consisting of basically one weirdly-shaped tower) would fall and Marceline's redemption could turn that world around
The king of adventure time reviews
Can we also talk about how Evil Marcy has all the powers she received/stole from the upper vampires she fought in the original universe? How does that go? Does that mean VK let her kill them in this universe so she could have their powers? The fact that they're absent from the vampire world kinda speaks for that too I think.
He's back baby!
Love the thoughts on the mycology!
Great video, man! I think I have a way (at least personally) of explaining why the vamp world Huntress was human. I’ve had a head canon that most of the humanoid species in Ooo Prime were originally human populations that were bathed in mutagenic magic in the fallout from the mushroom war. Given the large density of human settlements and populations throughout vamp world, I think it’s safe to say that this universe’s version of the mushroom war was far less destructive and mutagenic in nature (possibly making it so the Lich couldn’t manifest). If this is the case, then the human populations that were mutated into tree/water/cloud peoples in Ooo would still be regular humans and comprise the dominant species on the planet. Accordingly, Huntress would likely be born of human parents.
Has nobody thought about that maybe this is the universe where evergreens plan either work or he decided to work with the other elementals, and they survived that Gunter didn’t infect the crown with madness that it’s just a Wishon crown that lets whoever wears it make one wish and vk probably just stole it from Evergreen
"Tarot Motifs: Upright, the Star represents hope, faith, purpose, renewal, and spirituality. Pretty fitting for the main universe Marceline who thanks to Simon’s influence grew up to be humanity's protector from the vampire threat. *Inverted,* it represents lack of faith, despair, self-trust, and disconnection. The Marceline of this universe didn't have Simon in her life to help steer her on the right path and instead was raised and corrupted by the Vampire King into his second-in-command, helping to turn Ooo into a vampire-dominated nightmare with the human population having no one other than Bonnie's crew to protect them, and even that ends up not lasting for very long." - AdventureTimeMultiverse page of Characters from tvtropes
One thing I wish happened was for Fionna to acknowledge Martin as being (presumably) an alternate-reality version of her mom. It didn't seem like she recognized him at all
wait i just realized we didn't get to see fionna's parents in her world.. that could have been interesting
The only explanation I could think of is that Finn only found out about his dad due to Billy's ghost telling him, but if Fionna has no connections to her world's Billy then it's possible she's never met her mom before.
Gary doesn't know how long he's known Fionna and the city itself seems to exist around a white void. That makes me think that the characters of Fionnaworld don't really have too much in terms of personal stories. They just....exist. Fionna might not have parents because Martin wasn't a factor when Prismo wrote the story.
@@matti.8465yeah but it seems he created them already knowing finn and jake and the earliest we see ice king show them off to them is season 3 and he wouldn't meet them for another season. I'm wondering if time isnt linear for Prismo
this was my fav episode in this show. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the possibility of drinking red is still a thing vampires can do. that's what i thought with marcy's hesitation when bonnie mentioned the blood supply being drained, like she was going to tell her hey there's no worry of starvation actually bc we can just drink red, but thought against telling her bc she knew bonnie would be enraged that they just hadn't been doing that the whole time. but maybe in this universe, drinking red isn't a thing. I like to hope it still is tho. would give some hope for that world.
i think in this case the star would apply more directly to simon's journey through this episode, seeing what marcy became without him giving him a renewed sense of self, directly contrasting his claims earlier in the series that she'd be fine without him which already showcased his low self worth
also i think the vampire king going "i've seen a new thing" after seeing cake and and gang teleport away using the remote hints at him already heading towards the same kind of depression he had in stakes, where he was tired of everything having seen it all before, but likely no longer falling into that depression now that he knows there are still yet new things to experience that he could not conceive of before
and it makes me wonder if he might eventually find his way to prismo and the greater multiverse in general as a result