Fanalysis - Star Wars: Jedi/Sith Role Reversals
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- Here Reti, Evan and Greyjedi discuss their thoughts on certain Jedi and Sith should their alignments be inversed.
We hope you enjoy!
Legacy - neinel.deviant...
Obi-wan - katzai.deviant...
Zayne - crazypalette.d...
Reti4 - We completely forgot Darth names! Off the top of my head I'd go for:
Darth Tiruchel, Darth Tantique and Darth Pech. (High Ground, Monumental and Bad Luck)
You know... from now I'll refer to Obi-Wan as Lord Tiruchel, it isn't necessarily sith, like Darth, Lord Tiruchel... huh, has a ring to it... henceforth the Avatar of light will also have the title of... Lord Tiruchel.
fun names.
I love some of the thoughts and considerations bout all of em? even the admittance about how much it mess with the mind i do believe you captured a good bit with Kenobi about what his role within a sith empire would BE it makes sense.
but their is a bit about the rule of two I think that you allowed to escape your notice?
back when yall were doing the novelization of Darth Plageuis there was mention that Damask COMPLETELY mistook his man about wanting a partnership with Palpatine and all and that you all thought that ironically that Dooku would be PERFECTLY up for such a partnership.
so an aspect that i could see Kenobi BEING as a sith banite... is that he wouldent SEEK OUT his masters death? hed be perfectly willing for thigns to take their natural course and await his eventual ascendency. King to Prince type. willing to raise his own heir to standard if he had to.
while hed probabbly be far more comfortable being number 2? and would prefer being regent if something happened. a far more sensible Vader sith? is perfectly within reason. at worst an annoyed Kenobi assinating his master because his Master has gone complete off his rocker. correct things and get the empire back into function.
this was a interesting idea and i thank you all for sharing it
Fanalysis Darth GM Luke Skywalker just imagine the destruction.
How about Darth Maul?
What langue did you translate those names from?
Obi-wan's dark lord name Darth Troll
I can see light side Plagueis as a philanthropist. Using his money to help the galaxy. He'd still be a big picture thinker, so he'd be unconcerned with the "trivial" duties of the Jedi. He'd be focused entirely on improving the galaxy's infrastructure.
Plagueis being the stern landlord with a heart of gold is perfection.
I think it would be interesting to see what Corran Horn would be as a dark sider
I think Plagueis would still be as obsessed with midiclorians but wouldn't try to control them just trying to get a better understanding of them and due to this be regarded as one of the orders smartest and most scientific minds. He could also be a great healer within the order saying as he could bring life but he just extends it as a jedi. He would probably be a jedi who never really left the temple probably always in the library trying to understand the force more he could even be the chief librarian for the order.
I could picture Plaguies doing something like that.
Almost another Jedi librarian
A dark An’ya Kuro; if the dark woman had actually been a dark lady, Oppo Rancisis; arguably the strongest user of battle meditation, and an extremely talented telepath, becoming an evil snake man, and K’Kruhk, if the indomitable light had turned and started a dark cult of survived jedi younglings. Light side Wyyrlok; a contender for the rule of the one Sith turned to help the fledgling new jedi order, Gravid; if the one charged with carrying the early rule of two had succeeded in bringing it to its complete halt, Bane; If the Sithari had gone with his new republic sabacc friends and been discovered by the army of light instead of the dark brotherhood gaining their savior and their destruction.
Light Zannah would perhaps be the greatest Soresu master, she already is a contender, despite her Soresu focus not being in line with her dark side tendencies at all. I think it is generally more easy to imagine sith as jedi than vice-versa.
I think the combative nature of the darkside give more showing of what they can do, which makes it easier to translate.
Reti4 - I disagree on both counts actually. I don't think Zannah could ever trust someone/thing enough for the kind of faith-fuelled force flow that Kenobi is renowned for, whether she's on the lightside or the dark.
And I think it's easier to consider Jedi as Sith than Sith as Jedi generally. The core, driving forces of nearly all the Sith tend to be intricately wrapped around who they are as individuals, and completely juxtaposed with the tenets of the light. You have to be selfish above all else to be a true Sith, and people capable of that kind of existence are so far from Jedidom it's ridiculous.
It's much easier, in my eyes, to see a Jedi as a Sith because so many of them are Jedi as a matter of accepted duty and/or emotional choice. Two things that are either absent by default if they had started out on the darkside or easily moulded into the new dark-side forms. Their defining characteristics can be entirely separate from what makes them Jedi, far more so than the Sith.
All generally speaking of course, there are exceptions on both sides. But I think that's where I sit on this one at the moment.
I definitively get where you are coming from I personally just think that because sith are inherently selfish many sith characters traits and desires have to be more fleshed out, making them more solid characters in my mind that can be removed from there context more easily, with exceptions of course.
As for Light Zannah I imagine her just not having anything happen to her on Ruusan and as she was depicted in the Jedi vs Sith comic she seems trusting enough imo. If I remember correctly Darovit later also speculates that Zannah might have been transferring her latent powers to him which also implies a degree of trust and selflessness, plus it might be a pretty good indicator that Light Zannah could have a talent for battle meditation.
Reti4 - Oh, I definitely agree with trust on that level. My mistake. To clarify, I mean the uber-trust level of being the type to let go of your cerebral, thinking/planning style in the midst of combat. I would levy the same limitation for Soresu nth-degreeness on Plo Koon and Shaak Ti as well, and they're examples of two people that *definitely* trust in others.
Lol, I imagine Darth Zayne as Ron Burgundy in the "I'M BLIIIIIIIND" scene
So darkside version of obi wan would be someone like darth malgus. Someone comitted to the dark side, but not for the personal gain but to serve the empire. Like malgus said " no sith is greater then the whole empire'. He also would have some traits of darth marr as a leader. Of course obi wan would be dexterous then malgus and when it comes to personality he would perfect sith, taunting his opponents is useful skill.
Reti4 - You're right, Obi-wan's natural wit would definitely make him an excellent student of Dun Moch.
Darth Obi-Wan would be PERFECTLY suited to trolling, dun moch comments. XD
He would be kind of similar to Malgus in a way.... (not for the dun moch thing, for the other stuff)
Obi Wan would probably piss everyone in the Empire's higher ranks off so much that they'd try to kill him... repeatedly. And they'd likely fail... repeatedly. Which would make him troll even harder:)
Yes, i agree, he would be a lot like Malgus in his Loyalities and Philosophy.
Lord Kas'im, Ahsoka Tano, Mace Windu, Darth Maul, Darth Bane, Satele Shan
My top list if given a choice in threes: *Kit Fisto* (How would his charm wear in terms of the darkside's sort of paranoia upon others, if not, how would it effect his powers if his charms still hold their attractive nature?) *Qui-Gon Jin* (As you place it; he's a monk, so would this be the same for the alternate reality? Plus I would love to see how Obi-Wan would come out as if Jin had traced himself towards the same offerin' as his own master. Would they be the same if given this chance?) *Jaina Solo Fel* (Just to see how this would go in terms of her father and Darth Caedus' relationships) *Darth Bane* (Very fun mind to work with in chess, but would wonder if he could fix his stupid blunders) *Lady Lumiya* (Because I wish to please master Evan's endeavors in wantin' more love for this character) *And Darth Wyyrlok (III)* (How would his relations with Krayt be if they had known each other since Jedihood. If given the same route, would his view of the lord be much of pity or simple laughter of his now weaken state?)
I could see Fisto almost being an anti-Zannah--an illusionist, but rather than casting spells of fear and madness, he tempts victims in a Sidious-esque way and forces them to their own undoing. And light Lumiya would just be wonderful.
I can actually see Kit Fisto becoming dark without changing much at all. He could maintain his sense of humor and use it to get himself access to light sided powers. Warrior jedi like Fisto can change fairly easily because they are quite detached from the ideology they fight for. They can just switch allegiance while remaining pretty much the same. I'm not saying Fisto wouldn't change at all as he of course would. He would be somewhat sadistic and a lot more rude but he would keep his loyalty and focus on his rage while tempering it with his light hearted nature.
Qui-Gon Jin is the opposite and for him to become dark it would mean changing his whole ideology. Everything about him is about releasing himself and going with the flow. The only thing I can see that his dark side could focus on is his ego which he does have.
@@MrMarinus18 Yeah Fisto might also use his lighthearted exterior so opponents would underestimate him
See I think a Muun jedi is perfectly plausible you just have to place them in the areas that naturally suit some of their species's talents. I'd steer a Muun jedi towards the finding and recruiting of new Jedi personally, think of it as acquiring new assets for their organisation with every good that Jedi does in the future being a positive return on that investment. Its in some ways a clinical view but if you paired that with a lifetime of Jedi teachings with compassion and empathy at its core I think you could well raise a Muun that would be a good and useful jedi.
You can have an altruistic person as a total monster. Someone who is hurting you because they want to hurt you ca be persuaded or forced to stop. Someone who hurts others because they fundementaly believe that it is for their own good will never stop and can not be stopped without destroying who they are as a person.
Reti4 - Only if their perception is so fundamentally shattered that noone but themselves could consider them altruistic. Part of "their own good" includes factors that would be removed by the monsters infringement.
A lot of evil in the world is not born of malice or contempt but of a genuine desire to improve the lot of society. Mary this to arrogance, ignorance and a willingness to make sacarifice of others and you have a recipy for a very dangerious kind of person.
For instance say you have a person with what you think is a serious mental illness and its the turn of the centuary. We may think that an ice pick lobotomy is a vile act of barbarity but the people who did it thought they where helping their victims.
The agricultural mismanagement of China cause huge famines but it was done because Mao thought it was going to make the lives of his people better and nobody around him could or would dare call him out on it. He was wrong, ignorant of his mistakes and arrogant in his convictions and so millions died.
The crimes of the soviet union against their own where not done in the name of tyrany. They where done because thats what they thought had to be done to secure the strength and stability of their nation. And the crazy thing is they may not have been entirly incorrect.
Here in Brittain we used to ascribe to Malthusian theory. We thought that helping people out of a famine would just make the problem larger and worse and cause even more suffering latter down the line. Better the exces population die off now and leave a healthier more sustainable society behind. And so we let people starve even when we could have stopped it and it was our meddling that had caused it in the first place.
People percive worlds clouded by our biasis. And the bigest one is that we are the good guys, what is good for us is good for others as well and what we already believe in is the right thing. Whats is that line? "From my point of view its the Jedi who are evil."
Reti4 - Working within our own present limitations is part of the moral equation though. Slavery has always been abhorrently immoral, and the fact that entire societies were built on it and thought it normal hundreds of years ago doesn't change that. The motivations of the perpetrators were less marred by the evil because of the social framework, sure, but the act and effect itself remained the same.
We must always judge the morality of a situation by taking into account intent, action and end result. Each judgement is an independent one, including the overall whole. If someone does great good for immoral reasons, they are an immoral person accomplishing a good. Not less immoral because they happen to be bringing about a positive end result.
So someone thinking themselves an altruist horrifically damaging the person they think they're helping isn't acting as a good person. Their intentions are pure but the actions and end result both are far from it.
Morality is infinitely complex, all possible exemptions, exceptions, loopholes etc are factored into it and there's always one or more right and wrong answer to every moral quandary.
In my view, morality is black and white, with a sliver of grey in the middle for the truly philosophically steeped topics. (What is the line of demarcation for sentience? To name one example.) It isn't just black and white and it isn't a spectrum of grey. Not by my estimation.
I did say that they where dangerious monsters. Fascinatingly so. I can well imagine a Jedi or light side society that functions along much the same lines of the cold clinical Kaminoans. No parents, no individuality. All emotions engineered out of them. A place for everyone and everyone in their place and they had better well like it; because if they don't we have ways of making sure of it.
But you are objectively wrong on the slavery front. Modern perceptions of it are colored by the worst examples of it but it has not always taken the same form. Under the egyptians it was a very different beast that we call slavery mainly because we simply don't have a better word for it. Effectively you owned the labor of the slave and not the person. You where not allowed to abuse them and you would be held legaly responsible for their wellbeing.
I think a Zayne that grew up in a Sith Society would be shaped by resentment over his inadequacy, and i think Haazen, the Dark Jedi who manipulated the Covenant, was a foil and twist of Zayne narrative-wise in the series, remember he was presented in his backstory as another Jedi Padawan who wasn't very good at things, and after his fall to the Dark Side, he gathered many Sith Artifacts to cheat and become really powerful.
Maybe Dark Zayne would be just like that, someone who resented his better collegues like Haazen did, and gathered forbidden knowledge and artifacts to even the odds, resenting his status as an oddity, instead of making the best of it and focus on what works for him, as he did when growing with the Jedi, simply because of how a Sith upbringing would shape someone with such condition, he would end up much more self-centered, treating his inability as the crux of who he is, and not just an add on like regular Zayne does.
That way, despite how weak he would have been naturally, the artifacts would make him very powerful, he would be packing a lot of them, as he would become so greedy for them, in his quest for becoming someone in the Empire/Order, his obsession with gathering Sith Artifacts would be his defining trait.
So ironically, Dark Zayne would pretty much be what Light Zayne is fighting against in his story.
That's my take.
One jedi I would think is very similar to a light sided Malgus is Rahm Kota. He is independent minded but is still a warrior rather than a leader. He is at home on the battlefield and wants to be in control of his own soldiers and fighting style rather than blindly trust the system. But he is still loyal to the ideals and principle of the system. I can also see Malgus having the same gruff and rude speech pattern.
I don't think he would be similar to Windu though as Windu is extremely devoted to the jedi and is almost fanatical in everything that it stands for. While he has more than enough emotional control to keep it in check he does view insults of the jedi as personal insults and is a firm believer in the system. I don't think Malgus would have that same kind of investment and dedication. He is more detached and introverted.
Because of that he wouldn't have the discipline Windu has. Extreme discipline comes from extreme devotion. There has to be a reason you are going so far in focusing yourself and going beyond your limits. Kota doesn't do that, he has enough discipline to maintain composure on the battlefield and that's it.
The love thing is very interesting because it is the one thing both sith and jedi frown upon. I think the reason is because it can't be controlled and it isn't really possible to indoctrinate a student enough to stand against it. Love can change one's allegiance and both sides don't want that.
Had Darth Plageuis been born and raised in the Jedi order I'd see him more of a sentinel. That or one of the Jedi to brave the deep space to satisfy his curiosity
I cracked open "The Path" and the only thing that stood out that might, might keep Plagus occupied would the exploration corps. It could, for a time give his inquisitive mind something to keep him busy until he got bored and tried something forbidden.
Something I find interesting about Darth Malgus is that he’s very similar to Windu in that he’s one of the best warriors of his time and that while they both detested politics, they were capable at political maneuvering .
This reminds me a lot of the Infinities comics. In one version Leia falls to the Dark Side and joins Darth Vader and the Emperor in hunting down Luke, in another Luke becomes Darth Vader and Leia has to train on Dagobah to fight him, and in ROTJ's version Darth Vader helped Luke to fight against the Emperor and replaced his black armor with white. I do enjoy these what-if scenarios as it's a good brainstorm for fans.
I think that the Jedi equivalent to a Jedi Nihl would be Sharad Hett before he exiled himself to Tatooine and became a Tusken warlord. In that time period he was like any other Jedi, taken as an infant, and trained under Eeth Koth. As Jedi Padawan and Knight he spent much of his time in the Outer Rim dealing with pirates, warlords, criminals, and the like to the point where he became famous for it. Nihl would probably share in his determination to do the same.
For Jedi that I would like to see in the inverse I'll suggest Shaak Ti, Valenthyne Farfalla, and Wolf Sazen. For Shaak Ti, I would like to hear who she could be compared to. While Reti4 mentioned that Jedi Nihl might be compared with her, I feel like that comment was off the cuff. If this was given some serious thought behind it there could be others that I would like to hear about. Since she's not in one of my top favorite Jedi, I'm not really certain on how her personality will change, if it will. Valenthyne Farfalla I found to be an interesting Jedi due to his royal background of being the son of a Jedi Lord (Wookieepedia states that he's a half-Bothan, which further makes his character interesting) and this is shown quite extensively through his grandiose appearance and how he surrounds himself with luxury (it's hilarious to see Hoth gag at the sight of him). I don't know of too many Sith who would do this that would be compared with him apart from the head of the Sith Academy on Korriban during Bane's training. Discussing an inverse of his character would be interesting such as just how far would Farfalla go and what would he do for the Sith, if anything. And I just threw Wolf Sazen in there for diversity in the eras and because I haven't read the Legacy comics in a while. It'll be good to brush up on the character.
For the Sith that I would like to see in the inverse I think that Darth Malak, Lady Lumiya, and Asajj Ventress. Once again, I'm not really an expert on the various Sith and it's been a while since I read anything from the Old Republic or Legacy eras. I chose Darth Malak because he actually inquires at the end of KOTOR on what the outcome would be if his and Revan's roles were reversed in the game; if he had gone down the path of the Light and if Revan stayed in the Dark. It would be a good springboard from which to jump off of. I'm not an expert on Lady Lumiya, but I do know a summary of her life experiences thanks to EvanNova95 and his videos that featured her. I think that this would be either Evan's or Reti's expertise since the both of you are knowledgable on the New Republic era. I would like to see who she could be compared to. And I threw in Asajj Ventress in there because you mentioned her and kind-of inquired on what she would become if she and her master were rescued and brought to the Temple. I would like to see the end result of this inquiry if it was given more serious thought behind it. It's actually a little difficult to choose Sith because so many of them used to be Jedi, and good ones at that.
I think Zao would be an excellent Master for Nihl, Zao is nurturing in his own way and his varied perspectives about duty, self control, and the light side would mesh well with an unusual student like Nihl.
I don't know if you still read these after all this time gone by but here it goes. I actually can imagine Kenobi turning to the dark side. If you put Kenobi's actions into context in the movies and in order, you can imagine a darkside motivation. From the turn being Anakin slaughtering Jedi and Younglings At the temple. Kenobi turns, uses Padmae to manipulate information out of her. Appears when Anakin and Padmae argues, causing Anakin lose his stuff on Padmae and triggers the duel.. At the end of the Mustafarr duel where is pretty much neutralized Anakin taking 3 of his limbs, he could have force pulled him away from the Lava pit, or he could have forced pushed him into the Lava pit, both would had been mercies. Instead he saw him start to burn and he left him to burn. Later on Kenobi with Luke told him a Falsehood of Darth Vader murdering his father (From a certain point of view) In this particular context even his final duel with Vader, that Smile he makes before he lets Vader chop him down, he did so while Luke is watching so it would cement Luke's Hatred of Vader. Basically a Grand Mind F##K.
If the jedi could catch onto Darth Plagueis' antisocial personality disorder early enough they maybe able to train him to feel empathy and compassion, and then focus his mind on medical research. But, that is a lot of ifs, so would probably end up on the way of Count Dooku
I think Kenobi on the dark side is basically an arrogant yet highly intelligent dark sider. think about it Kenobi has always had a confidence the " Hello there " meme demonstrates that yet when push comes to shove he abandons ego and lets the force flow . so if the dark side involves letting your ego run wild, then Kenobi's coin flips and he turns into an arrogant , gaudy Joffrey esq sith lord . in terms of style I could see subtle force style telekinetically causing an hart attack in torcher. whiles using lightning to short circuit lights and create environmental chaos and before you realise what's going on a saber has pierced your back. saber skills are the inverse of his canon ones decent defensively and horrifying on the offence. I agree with his role as you defined . I concur with assessment of Sunrider yet I could see her empathic ability's turning her inner circle into a deeply paranoid yet fanatically loyal dark council ( making her a pretty good overlord for a Dark Kenobi). Karrick on the Dark side is just Starscreen bubbling, incompetent and a bigger threat to his fellow villains. either that or he turns into Kazdin Paratuss
Recommendations for Sith/Dark Jedi:
Tholme (a Dark Jedi mercenary who works as a double agent for both sides)
Anakin Skywalker (Vader if he was raised a Banite Sith from the get go)
Satele Shan (a High Council-level Sith Inquisitor)
Kyp Durron (if Han Solo never took him back to the NJO and continued to fight the Empire as a latent dark-sider)
Kao-Cen Darach (a Sith Marauder with far sight and his own agenda)
Dooku (stays the Count of Sorenno and a true Rule of Two Sith, maybe filling the role of Plagueis' apprentice instead of Palpatine until Anakin is found)
Fay (Star Wars Galadriel post-Ring of Power)
Any'a Kuro (a Dark Jedi grooming her own anti-Order of fallen Jedi padawans)
Plo Koon (a model Jedi turned on his head into the perfect Sith--cold, calculating and lawful but utterly amoral)
Recommendations for Jedi/Grey Jedi:
Lana Beniko (either as a defector from the Sith Order or a Grey Jedi who believes the Sith can be redeemed or worked with rather than destroyed)
Asajj Ventress (if Kai Marek had not died)
Bane (found late in life by the Army of Light, a scholar and Jedi Lord who either falls away or radically reforms the Order post-Ruusan)
Vectivus (strong prospect for Grey Jedi)
Lumiya (taking Mara Jade's place and avoids disfigurement)
Aurra Sing (remains in the Order as a Knight, probably under a different Master)
Palpatine (found by the Jedi Order before Plagueis does, probably follows an arc similar to Anakin's)
Kas'im (a dedicated Jedi Blademaster)
Jerec (staying on the light path as a Jocasta Nu-like scholar)
Interesting🤔
I don't see an aversion for the lightsaber as something that pushes it either way with Nomi. There have been Sith that don't like lightsabers such as the last few stages of the rule of 2 sith. In fact light saber revulsion is more common among Sith than jedi.
This is certainly an interesting concept and I'd like to see more of these personally. Perhaps one featuring Darth Wyyrlok or Shaak Ti? For a complete reversal of character maybe Darth Andeddu?
You guys should do more of these.
I see a Dark Side Kenobi being incredibly dedicated to the Sith cause of eradicating the Jedi kind of like Maul. He would still give himself over to the Force but rather than through Soresu I'd see dark Kenobi using Juyo as a natural channel for his emotions. Kenobi would likely be a whirling dervish like Sidious but unlike Sidious he wouldn't fall into megalomania resulting in a calculating, precise butcher of a Jedi hunter taking advantage of any opening or weakness he can find in his targets.
As for Force abilities a dark Kenobi would be less hesitant to kill opponents and more willing to unleash his full power. In his own twisted mind such a Kenobi might see a quick death at his hands an unfortunate but necessary mercy. In the end I'd see as a more effective dark enforcer than Anakin but probably not nearly as terrifying at first glance as Vader.
Role Reversals:
3 Dark:
Darth Nilhils (can't spell his name)
Darth Sion
Darth Traya
3 Light:
Yoda
Tra'Saa
Shaak Ti
Dark Side Yoda would be terrifying.
For a light side Plageous I immediately thought of Jorus C’baoth. Maybe that’s a comparison
Recommendations:
Lightsiders - Kanan Jarrus, An'ya Kuro, Rahm Kota
Darksiders - Azrakel, Darth Maladi, Darth Thanaton
Here's something people I haven't seen people talk about:
The dark side of the force is submissive, and the light side is dominant. The dark side is used as nothing more than a tool by the Sith, while Jedi submit themselves to the will of the light side, and allow it to act through them.
I think it'd be interesting to see Palpatine as a Jedi. I also think Yoda or Mace as a Sith would be interesting as well.
Palpatine as a Jedi would be interesting but it’s kind of a similar situation as Plagueis, it’s really hard to see him as a Jedi since he’s so well-suited to the Dark or at least so poorly suited to the Light. I wonder what they would think about him. Yoda as a Sith would actually be more interesting to me, he’s such a pillar of light it’d be cool (or terrifying) to see what’d happen if instead he had gone dark....
Yoda using force lightning. Damn. Not to mention he'd be around to make a change for a long time in the galaxy, due to his species age. Granted, dark side degradation kicks in and all, but because his species is already so naturally long lived...damn. Also, I think you could make a case for Palpatine as a Jedi. It's difficult, but not impossible. You'd have to get him from Naboo at an early age, before the influence of either A) his father coming too far into the picture. or B) His purchase and study of ancient sith artifacts at a young age. I don't think it'd completely alter who he is at his core, but it would definitely make things within the SW universe play out completely different.
Yeah, Yoda's already a contender with Palpatine as is and while I genuinely think the Light Side is stronger and more sustainable/enduring in the long term the Dark Side is much more explosively, immediately powerful. So given that he's already very near Palpatine's power, enough to contend very closely, Darkside Yoda would be pretty beastly. As for Palpatine himself, I think it's possible if he was claimed at birth but I don't know that he'd stay on the path of light. He's already a natural psychopath, which isn't a good mix for someone with the natural force connection that he has.... Granted, his father's influence and his upbringing as well as his interest in ancient Sith artifacts did not help that and a Jedi upbringing might help a lot. I don't know, I see it going one of two ways. Either he learns to keep his nature consciously in check and becomes a major figure to the Jedi Order.... Or more likely at some point he leaves and becomes a member of the lost 20, possibly or maybe probably falling to the Darkside. It'd be interesting in that later scenario if after leaving he finds an ancient Sith holocron and learns the Darkside from that, he'd become a VERY different Sith lord in that case. Imagine his power but as a straight-up, dedicated warrior instead of a sorcerer. Deadly. In the former case, as a Jedi I think it'd be interesting seeing him go head to head with Darth Plagueis, seeing as Plagueis was his master in cannon. In addition, in a Jedi Palpatine scenario I wonder if Dooku would still fall but become Plagueis' apprentice instead. Dooku is the kind of Sith that would be perfectly willing to disregard the rule of two and stand alongside Plagueis as Plagueis intended with Palpatine.... So interesting idea.
Dark to Light; Darth Zannah, Darth Sidious, Darth Bane, Asajj Ventress, Darth Maul, Vitiate. Light to Dark: Yoda, Luke Skywalker, Qui-Gon Jinn, Satele Shan, Jaina Solo, Mace WIndu, Plo Koon. (Legends Only)
Also Light to Dark: Lord Hoth, Corran Horn
Kenobi, Dark Lord of the Trolls (or the highground). I love this! If Kenobi fell to the darkside and fully embraced the power of the troll (or highground), he would slaughter Sidious and take over (if he had interest). I think darkside Kenobi would be a Lawful Evil darksider (like Vader or Krayt) or he would just go with the flow of the force. Either way, one of the greatest Dun Moch masters in galactic history.
Nomi Sunrider interests me combatively (not a huge fan of the character). She could turn into one op sith sorceress and battle meditation would turn into battle domination. As for her daughter, I don't know on this one. Darksider's are not 100% evil and can still feel genuine love for others.
Zayne. I greatly enjoyed Zayne in his comic run. Basically, what if the prophecy was actually true. His unique relation with the force on the darkside would be really interesting. But, his defining trait in altruism. lol, he would turn into Jynx from the orig TT series. No one would want him and that would strengthen his connection to the darkside. Maybe he would get to the point, where he thinks the universe needs to understand his pain and misery.
Darth Maglus: Oh boy, this is tricky. Mainly because of his look. Maybe his lover would make him stay as a lightsider? He would basically turn into an ideal version of Anakin. Headstrong warrior whose love for Aleena is what gives him the strength to end conflict.
Darth Plagueis: Wouldn't be a jedi, he would be a true neutral scientist on a stormy planet in a castle. His inherent nature would make him not stand the Jedi Order due to questioning its rationality and go rouge. Or become a Jensarrai (not Jensarrai1)?
Darth Nihl: Would he be recruited before he was a warlord? Maybe have him recruited not at birth but a little after he was "glossed over." As a Jedi, he would be an ambitious man who would look out for the rejects, the sloppy 2nds as a way of coming to terms with his own conflict. His training would be a lot better though because of his circumstances.
These are all tricky to do but I'm really impressed by the results.
I would like to see Mace if he gave in to the dark side, Palpatine, Satele Shan, Maul, Eeth Koth or Agen Kolar, and last but not least, Darth Maar
Reti4 - Satele in particular interests me for this discussion. But I imagine we'll look at all these at some point.
Really loved the conversation around Nomi. She would have been one of my suggestions had she not been here XD But I really find the idea of a sith parent interesting, because you're right we haven't seen that outside of Valkorian, and he's like a weird case cause he's definitely not as "human" as a Nomi like sith would be. I also like the idea of sith who would be "good kinda sort a?" rulers. Like you said it wouldn't be a good place to live, but I'd rather have a dark Nomi be in charge then almost any other sith. Trying to think of other sith who could do that.
Okay suggestions: I really wanna say the sith triumvirate. But I'm not sure we know enough about sion or Nihilus to work with. I'd also be interested in a darth Jaina, cause i think she'd be very different from her brother. A dark side Sylvar could be fun, just a ravenous lion lady lol. Idk if any of those were good XD but I'd love to see this series continue!
Reti4 - Yeah, Nomi's one of my favourites in general, so seeing her grand manipulations of the galaxy would be awesome. I enjoyed her Mon Mothmaing in the Redemption comic as it was.
Jaina was one of my suggestions for this original lineup actually. We ruled her out for the first video as we've already seen her slightly dipped into the dark.
Same! Nomi is one of my favs in all of star wars. Her story especially is one of the major things that got me into the eu. I just finished the video and yeah! Empress sunrider would be an amazing what if story!
Oh that's true! That is kinda the trouble lol, you guys even said it in the vid but with a lot of characters we've seen their dark or light side. I'll try to think of more suggestions lol!
Well we have seen a Sith parent other than Valkorian, that being Darth Jadus who qualified as a abusive a******
I could see Dark Obi-wan still using soresu, but for a dark purpose. To just watch how his enemy tries and fails to break his defence and enjoy the fear and despair coming from them, and then when they have no more energy to fight, just totally destroy them with his might.
As for Malgus I could see a potential Jedi lord here. think a Mace Windu mixed with lord Hoth. he would still view war as being the natural state of the world but his convictions would be more dedicated to defending the meek from this war and destroying those who seek to abuse them. Palguis is essentially just a true neutral he's not going out of his way to harm others but he's not above evil actions if its in his interest or what he deems to be "right".I think Nhile turns out the best out of these three. without the racial prejudices that gave him his feelings of inadequacy his ambition turns into determination. I would see him essentially turning into a true jedi guardian.
also Light Side Tarkin
What about Darth Bane?
Love this idea Evan, kodos for bringing it up (and also from the fan artist of the rule of 1 Jedi pic) I'd love to see what you think on the idea of the inverse of these 6 characters and how their roles would change
Jedi to Sith: Mace Windu, Vrook Lamar and Satele Shan
Sith to Jedi: Darth Bane (of course the change being if he decided to leave apatros with the Republic crew), Lord Kassim and Lord Scourge.
Fun concept maybe some ideas could be
Teneb Kel/Darth Thanaton
Jaina Solo Fel
Darth Zannah
Mara Jade
Darths Maul, Sidious, and Vitiate
Qui-Gon, Kanan Jarrus, and Bastilla Shan
Reti4 - All interesting. We considered all these bar Kanan for this first episode actually.
I'd like to have a discussion on what Kanan and Ezra would be like if they became full Jedi masters. Like how do their personalities and skillsets apply to different techniques and force abilities?
josiah jenks are we talking traditional masters or in their era? If it's in their era, Kanan wouldn't change much
Traditional
Sidious is interesting to me because I see it rounding back around to sith in a way? Someone who views themself (dare I say rightfully so as far as raw power goes) as a sort of avatar of darkness, someone who self-identifies as evil, flipping at least that aspect reminds me of what we're told Darth Ruin was like before his fall
I get this is totally circular thinking, but at least in that one personal extreme I think it's interesting
Reti4, you look like Kenanu Reeves out of John Wick. XP
Reti4 - My friends have said as much before. I don't see it personally.
You are quite handsome for a guy of your age, if comments are given in terms of attraction.
Jessica Reed I once compared him to rob Roy who was played by Liam neeson
Now someone has to do Azula vs Zannah
i believe a ligh side Malgus would seem something like Lord Hoth?
oh....lol
I recently just finished reading the first volume Epic Collection of the Kotor comics with Zayne Carrick. He is probably my new favorite character.
Turn to the dark side? I would never, not in a million years!
With Obi-Wan I always felt he actually is not the model jedi he imagines himself to be. Though he tries to distance himself from it his master's influence is felt as well as that of his apprentice.
Great idea! Really liked this episode
I would like to see ray for the light side turning to the dark and Ashoka (prefrubly apreticed under Darth Vader) and yun from dark fark forcec two (i now he doesn’t have mutch to go on but still) for the dark side terning light.
Dyslexia and auto correct doesn’t like me.
Oh a relay interesting one (in my opinion) would be savage oppress.
I don't know if you guys are interested, but I recommend checking out Thor Skywalker's "Knights of the Forsaken Order" for a somewhat-take on an Obi-Wan infatuated with the Dark Side. It's probably one of the best-written Star Wars fan works on UA-cam.
Eeth Koth training Nihl sounds good.
I feel that Nihl would end up like Sharad Hett before he exiled himself to Tatooine in that regard. He would be a frontline Jedi Guardian in the Outer Rim dispensing justice against pirates, warlords, criminals, and the like.
Luke shaak ti oppo rancisis darth vitiate darth Maul and wyyrlok III
I would think a sith parent/child relationship would be very spartan. That the child is forced to be tough and has to conform to the parent's expectations. The child's own emotional problems don't matter and failure and disobedience is punished harshly. It is basically the same as a master/apprentice relationship just a little more intense. They would likely also be very protective of them yet also somewhat scared of their potential. It is a natural thing for people in power to be fearful of the next generation. Jedi don't suffer from that as much as they heavily suppress desires relating to either gaining or keeping power but sith embrace those emotions.
But I think a sith child would have plenty of spankings, humiliations, ruthless survival training, emotional neglect and other such things. Maybe that's why it's not been commonly shown because showing child abuse in detail without saying that it is wrong can get the writers in hot water.
I completely disagree with GreyJedi, Dooku clearly did value his friends in the Jedi in Attack of the Clones and was almost definitely an idealist, who hated the corruption in the Republic and wanted to knock the Who institution down as it was corrupt, Sidious was just the person who he called for
It says in the ROTS novel that he's never been entirely sure what beings mean when they speak of friendship. I mean, you're entitled to your views. But little of what I said was theory. Most of it was based on what's stated in the lore. Dooku's a bit of a sociopathic nut case. He once cared for Jedi who were close to him...but it didn't stop him from betraying and waging war on them and he was always stern, hard and cold. Just not initially cruel.
GreyJedi91 I disagree there, those relationships clearly mattered to him, why Elise would he reach out to Obi Wan in Attack of the Clones, why would Yoda be able to convince him to come home to the Temple.
The version in ROTS only makes sense with the Dark Side corrupting his memories, if anything is he cared too much; that’s why he left the Order he was a true idealist who became bitter and cynical due to the endemic corruption
I was thinking general hoth too for malgus good call
Just thought about another one...Kyle Katarn as a dark sider? Or Lumiya as a lightsider?
Reti4 - Lumiya is definitely one we'll have to cover. Kyle had his own little dip into the dark already though, so we discounted him for the first episode. Can definitely cover him at some point though.
Awesome! And yeah, I forgot about that little piece of info with Kyle. Been awhile since I read that storyline though. Keep up the good work guys. Been following since old Council Forcecast days around Force Awakens review. Can't wait to see more...just as an off handed question, as I think it was mentioned in a previous video, when did you guys plan on doing Game of Thrones Fanalysis episodes, if you were planning to do them? Those would be interesting.
Please guys do more
Plagueis would be exactly the same, except benevolent parent figure instead of a cruel one.
Malgus I'd see as a Rahm Kota type
Reti4 - It was, yes. We weren't deliberately trying to space them apart, it just happened that way as we hashed our suggestions out.
Fanalysis I wrote the above before watching the whole thing, so my suggestions: Jedi vs Sith Messiahs:
Yoda and Luke as Sith, Bane and Sidious as Jedi
Zayne would literally be Darth JarJar...
For the next video, I’d like to see:
Saesee Tiin-Scout-Oppo Rancisis
Darth Bane-Exal Kressh-Sedriss
Reti4 - All interesting. Scout falling would break my heart.
Yours and mine both, friend. But it'd be a fascinating exploration.
Guardian: Windu
Consular: Rancisis
Sentinel: Tholme
Warrior: Malak
Inquisitor: Exar Kun
Sorcerer: Zannah
Oh! Love the idea of this!
Reti4 - I'm glad you like it. Send us suggestions for who you'd like us to cover!
This made wonder what Luke would be like had he been raised by Vader/Palpatine
Loved it
Reti4 - Glad you enjoyed. Send us your suggestions for characters you'd like us to cover!
Fanalysis Ok so three of each... How about Satele Shan, Shaak Ti and Plo koon. Dark siders could be darths Sion and Talon, and Savage opress. Really wanted savage to have more depth, and have TCW use him to show us why it's difficult to instruct a grown up in the ways of the Jedi. Thanks guys :-)
There's a flaw in your video. Kenobi is obviously already a Sith since he said "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" so he just called himself a Sith there. In all seriousness, this is a great idea and Kenobi was instantly who I thought of when I read your title.
+Fanalysis Light Maul,Light Palpatine and Light Lumiya.... Dark Kit Fisto,Dark Shaak Ti and Dark Plo Koon
My suggestions are: Darth Bane, Darth Zannah (as Master and Padawan) and from the light side: Plo Koon, Qui-Gon Jinn and K'Krukh
What about plagueis became a Jedi healer
Dark obiwan would be a lot like death talon in function right?
So what was that video gonna be? with Tra Saa
This was really cool!
Reti4 - Thanks very much, we're glad you enjoyed. Send us your suggestions for who to cover next!
Evan/Callan/MattJust out of curiosity, did you guys actually watch that "Top Ten Versus Creators" video? Rico Chico Malico discussed it, so I assumed you guys would have at least heard about it.
ua-cam.com/video/mxeeW8uv_7A/v-deo.html
LOVE THIS SHOW!
Very nice idea😍 love those videos. Fanalysis, bestanalysis
Reti4 - Thanks very much, we're glad you enjoyed. Send us your suggestions for who to cover next!
What about a Dark side Satille shan and a light side Jerec?
Krayt , Zannah, Sidious. Windu, Yoda, Luke (Think these characters would be intresting if they switched allegiances)
I'm actually not that fond of Empire Yoda. He is quite obnoxious and comes across more as arrogant than wise. I also can't detect any emotion at all from him and it's one of the things I actually prefer in the prequels.
Qui gon, windu, farfalla, Zannah, naga sadow, savage oppress
Do mace Windu
Reti4 - Inevitable. Just a question of when.
Yoda, Anya Kuro, Jolee Bindo, Darth Maul, Sidious, Vergere
Corran horn, kit fisto, Lumiya, Naga sadow, sedriss, Lucien Draay
Do Anakin!
God i love this channel
Reti4 - Thanks very much, I'm really glad you're enjoying our content. Give us some suggestions for characters you'd like us to cover!
Hey guys thanks for this this of the characters I really want to see dark Side or Light side 😇can you please do Darth bane was a jedi 😇
Darth Nihlus and Sidious that's all I can think of
Dark Obi-Wan = Kar Vastor.
I think Qui-Gon would be a really interesting darksider.
Reti4 - For sure. We're definitely going to have to cover him at some point.
General Kenobi you are a bold one
There is one example of a tired, bitter old Sith hermit, namely Spindrall in the "Star Wars: The Old Republic" game.
Wright805 oh yeah...isnt he like your first mission when you start on Korriban...cant remember which class.
That's the one. First mission of the Sith Inquisitor class.
do a light side vitiate
Yoda!
Maybe Zane is a distant ancestor of Han Solo
I would go Darth Marr and Mace Windu as well as Darth traya and Luminara Unduli
Reti4 - Darth Marr and Windu are almost definitely going to be among the next lot, given how many have asked for them already. Traya and Unduli are both interesting as well.
This was awesome:)
Reti4 - Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed. Send us your suggestions for characters you'd like us to cover!
I find ironic that even Malgus and Obi-Wan are on the list, they are exact opposites. Brute and subversive. Kind and cruel. And both are pillar said of both sides of the force.
Btw I would love to see a fight between Naomi Sunrider and Darth Zannah.
Reti4 - Likewise. That's always been one I've been fascinated by.
Please someone in the council should do this!
Do Yoda, Ahsoka, and Mace WinduAnd Sidious, Maul, Bane
I would also say Kanan Jarrus but I dont think most of you caught up or like Rebels