The Council Forcecast: Episode 9 - Lightsaber Variants
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
- Our latest podcast, discussing the pros and cons of the various lightsaber variants presented throughout Star Wars media.
TPLA Live: Saber Staff - [ • TPLA Live: Saber Staff ]
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We hope you guys enjoy our latest Podcast. This one was fun :)
EvanNova95 where did you get your custom green saber
I'm wondering that too. I want my own customized lightsaber
SirJedi Consular try ultra sabers they make really high quality custom light sabers for a nice price
SirJedi Consular I think he made it himself, since he is a film maker (as his channel used to/does say) he might have prop making experiance
C.Y.N.I.C.Union While I do have some prop making experience, I can't make anything that complex, electrical wiring is a skill I have yet to master. As for where I got mine: www.advanced-light.com
NERDS!
Good to see this episode out :-D
***** *swoon*
EvanNova95 *drool*
Reti4 *faint*
Heh heh, I'm not sure I get the swoon, drool, faint thing but I'm going to assume it's a good thing.
Reti4 One could equate it to the Beatles effect.
Hey Antoine, how,s it going? Will the debate between you and Jensaarai about Yoda be on the next episode of the council forcecast? I really want to see it.
Max Kogan Heh heh, that would definitely be an interesting experience. Evan and I would just be quietly tip toeing away in the background :)
Thank you. I recommended this a few days ago to him, considering how their views on Yoda are vastly different, and how they both have good points to back up their views. I honestly think that any fan of the versus series would enjoy a debate like this.
It's not that I dislike the pike. It's that short of the whip (and guardshotos) it's my least favored option. Some how no matter how mild I felt my criticisms were of the weapon people seem to take what I said further than it was meant to go. As I see it, I would simply much rather the similar leverage advantages and greater versatility that the saberstaff provides. Those benefits come from selective activation and the elongated handle and of course the presence of dual blades. Yes the merits of a spear cannot be disregarded but what puts me off is that it's not as good for fighting against multiple assailants in close quarters and you wouldn't want to use it in a tight space like a corridor. The fact that you get good leverage and can deactivate a single blade with the saberstaff make it superior in my eyes and more adaptable to the different planes and landscapes that battles could take place on. But I do not hate the pike. Just want to be clear.
How are you doing sir?
In Darth Maul: Death Sentence, Master Judd wielded a saber pike and was able to hold his own/ overwhelm both Savage and Maul. Furthermore, in Dark Times: Fire Carrier, Master Zao was a master of Shii-Cho and was able to take on multiple assailants while wielding his saber pike but I definitely understand where you are coming from! But I think it's perfectly viable/ practical in corridors or situations with multiple adversaries especially if you're a master of Shii-Cho because of the wide strikes and erratic and unpredictable nature of Form I.
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***** Well, I used Master Zao as an example in a video showing his performance when talking about the weapon. What he did was impressive, but it was also something I think only a master could really be counted on to pull off. It's difficult. And it should also be noted that he was facing blaster wielding opponents and feral beasts throughout the ordeal. Not trained Dark Jedi or Sith with lightsabers. But again, you're right to point out that it can be used in those scenarios. I'm not saying it's a weapon that is impossible to use in those situations. But next to the other choices, it's not as good for fighting in close quarters. Look at where Obi-wan and Anakin wound up on Mustafar, or even during Mace and Palpatine's battle in the Chancellor's office. A spear wouldn't be preferable in places like those. Again, you're right that it can be used for those reasons. But it's just not the selection I would make for dealing with those situations if I were a Jedi.
GreyJedi91 True, I agree! You brought up good points!
The one thing I will say is that the Light Pike would be easier to use because from the design you can use it exactly like a Spear. Which in all honesty any idiot can pick it up and say "hey I stab with the pointy end." So don't need much knowledge to use it and plus train with it enough and bam you have a advantage in reach over most sabers. Plus if they maneuver around the Saber. Pull it back and start jabbing away at the guy. Most likely he will back off.
One thing about the saber staff is that it can be used as a single lightsaber. When Maul fought against just Qui-Gon he used only 1 blade. That is one thing that you can switch back and forth.
Could you guys discuss lightsaber combat forms, including jar'kai and battlefield tactics such as dun moch and sokan.
LOLOL the WFT saber picture at the end has been my desktop wallpaper for ever!! too funny
Yeah, I always enjoyed the design, though I've always referred to it as the "Light Scythe"
It would be rather interesting to see someone wield a Lightwhip and a shoto at the same time.
Indeed.
+Reti4 another interesting variation would be to carry a shorter stranded lightsaber but not shoto short and a gaurd shoto in the off hand
Well, this is new. It's great to find an honest and dedicated discussion about one of the most expansive universes out there.
In fencing (sabre fencing and I am an amateur to say the least), I use a blade that is half Italian Grip (so standard hilt is best comparison) and half pistol grip (so curved hilt). It gives me a lot of options in combat. The pistol grip gives you greater thrusting power, the hilt is slightly longer than average to accommodate my large hands and it lets me have a good amount of leverage. In epee fencing, its pretty bad. But, in sabre fencing (or lightsaber combat), I feel this is ideal. Its like a cross between curved hilt, standard, and slightly long handle.
The curved hilt is the most practical from my prospective as both a fencer/form 2 user and a man with severe arthritis.It enables me to keep up with the speed of younger fighters and it helps with defense against power attacks as well as the angle of the blade making it difficult for my opponents.
Continue the council forcecast guys, U R AWSEOME
Just wanted to thank you guys for answering my questions. And I will get on to that story. You guys rock!!!
EvanNova95 Your "What The Fuck" light saber looks like something I would use if I needed to kill a vampire
With the electro magnet there is one thing about them is that though they will keep them together they will still allow them to rotate. Unless you have a latch system. I think most do have a latch system but it could be much simpler as it only has to prevent it from rotating, it doesn't have to take the strain of keeping the two halves together.
Something that would make the doubleblader better is having only 1 crystal: that way only 1 blade can be activated at a time, you don't have to worry about the second blade potentially hitting you, you can switch back and forth to surprise the enemy and bypass their defenses, and the hilt is smaller and less of a target.
So a warb null styled weapon
I think the best lightsaber variant for each form is
1. shii cho - saber-staff
2. Makashi - curved hilt
3. Soresu - standard
4. Ataru - standard
5. Djem so - cross-guard / saber-staff
5. Shien - standard
6. Niman - paired lightsabers which connect to form a saber-staff
7. Juyo / Vaapad - standard / saber-staff
One thing I'd like to add is that the standard blade is the reason the why the lightsaber styles were created to begin with.
Very true.
The amount of overthinking in that one is beautiful
Good too see that old good dedicated Star Wars nerds are still out there :)
Interesting discussion.
I'm glad you enjoyed it, we're particularly pleased with how this one turned out.
As a man who has had years of experience working with magnets, the electro magnet lock is only a good idea on paper, as a magnet that runs constantly builds heat which inturn makes the magnet loose cohesion. An interlocking system is still the best option.
Great Forcecast council masters.
As for that question about why each of you would be kicked out of the Order:
GreyJedi- I dont see Him being kicked out as much as I see him following the will of the Force rather than the council in a manner similar to Fay, Zao, or even Jon Antilles I can see him rarely coming to the Jedi Temple.
Jen- If Dooku never existed and Sidious was looking for another place holder in anticipation of Anakin Skywalker then Jen would be it and he would leave the Order however I doubt his relationship with Sidious would end the same as he would not place stock in Sidious' vague promises of power nor would he ever allow Sidious to get the Drop on him
Reti- I see you with a Qui Gon/ Dooku moral absolutism but with an Obi Wan style leniency. You would argue your peers and betters to the ground, but just because you might not see things the way they do doesn't mean you would distance yourself or leave the Order. As long as the Order stands firm on the Moral Ground I really can't see you getting kicked out or leaving; the most I could see you doing is maybe taking numerous extended leaves to perform good works or taking full advantage of your knight/master status to come and go as you please.
Ant- as the others say you may take your passions to far in either a mission or your personal life, however during your time as part of the order you would surely be one of their most proactive and dedicated members.
should the order kick you out I see you either becoming a disciple of Jensaarai or just some guy who makes his own life better by taking advantage of the powers afforded to him by his training.
Evan- I truly don't know. You and Reti are the only two I'm sure wouldn't get kicked out of the order as long as it stayed on the side of good. The most I can see is you refusing to report to Coruscant after Geonosis and you refusing to serve as a general because if maybe philosophical reasons .
The way I see it, the main advantage that saberstaffs have over a single blade is in trakata techniques--like how Kao Cen-Derach ignited the second blade of the staff he was using mid-strike to skewer Vindican. Also with only one blade ignited it can make a beastly two-handed sword. Running both blades always struck me as counterintuitive except for certain defensive maneuvers and crowd control. Honestly I prefer the lightpike to the saberstaff--more leverage, less dangerous and allows for numerous offensive and defensive options only available to a polearm.
*****
The issue of portability could be addressed by making the shaft a detachable extension (there's a King Missile joke buried in there somewhere) to a standard lightsaber hilt. Sort of like a pool cue. That way you could use it as a normal saber as well.
YES! It's about time. I'd watch this everyday if it came out everyday.
Glad you enjoy the episodes, I'm afraid we can't get an episode out every day, but we strive for around weekly :) The wait for this one was so long because my PC drive died. I barely recovered the recording and had to sort out getting my editing software back up and running.
Weekly will be fine too. ^.^
Reti4 Hey Reti4, just a quick question. Why is your audio going in and out in the video? Is it mic placement or are you just changing the volume at which you're speaking because for most of the video I can't hear what you're saying at all and then all of a sudden you get really loud and then really quiet again. Just curious, as always. Really enjoyed the video and I'm glad to see another one as it feels like it was a very long time coming what with your computer malfunction that you listed.
Lycon Xero It's because to avoid completely dominating the volume with my straight to recording mic (as opposed to the others recorded from Skype) I have to set the pick up relatively low, which only works well when I am sitting forward and speaking up, the anti-Reti position.
When it comes to preferred weapon, I have a very guardian mentality, so I would choose to outfit much like a European knight off to war. Full, armor, preferably cortosis weave, primary a light pike with an angled cross guard and a very short blade on the opposite end (think light halberd), with as a backup a standard lightsaber with a phrik basket guard to protect my hand, and a shoto as a dagger. Three weapons so I have a primary, a sidearm, and a close. Not at war, limit to standard and shoto.
Style wise, I lean toward Djem So, with a little Ataru and Juyo supplementing my mobility, But I do tend toward the plant and hold ground style. I would definitely want some form of armor. Color, probably blue, ideally in a darker shade leaning toward violet.
A few things you guys didn't touch upon that I think deserve mention:
First, with the saberstaff there is the option of using the blades one at a time. Darth Maul in his first battle with Qui-gon Jinn only activated one of the blades and used it very well. The longer hilt probably made it a bit awkward but gave him more leverage. Then when he was going up against both Obi-wan and Qui-gon he used both blades, which shows that he knows how to prioritize the use of his weapon. My guess is that he continued using both blades when dueling them one at a time was either because he was either already in the groove of using both blades or he just felt there was no need to switch to just a single blade.
Second, another way the traditional light whip could be used is if you have Mandelorian or phrik full body armor. Then you could use the techniques of grabbing the whip and wrapping it around yourself.
Also check this out: imagine if you have paired lightsabers and both have the duel-phase function. That way if you are using dual blade fencing either weapon could be the standard size or shoto at any given moment, making you very unpredictable. And, if you could connect them into a saberstaff, having them both being dual-phase would allow you to switch between a standard saberstaff and a Darth Zannah saberstaff with shortened blades.
Thoughts?
What do you think about Kanan's use of Ezra's lightsaber? Kinda reminds me of RWBY's mix between melee and guns.
I loved it, that fight was a mix of love and hate for me. I loved it because it was awesome and well thought out, but at the same time hated it because it could have been so much more had the show done certain things differently throughout. More on our Rebels opinions coming soon.
In the Saberstaff discussion, you seemed to forget that it can be used with a single blade. Maul does this in his fight with Qui-Gon, and puts him almost entirely on the defensive. Who's to say you can't use Djem So in a similar manner.
One issue is that, unless one has an Exar Kun lightsaber, it would still get in the way as it's twice the size. It would be similar to using a Lightpike that someone cut in half or a lightclub as a standard humanoid.
@@Jedi_Spartan Well, regarding size, it doesn't have to be twice. Cal Kestis' lightsaber was around 30-35 centimeters, still within realms of stanard, and it was originally that if Joro Topal, a Lasat.
My point is the length of a Saberstaff is up to the user.
Personally, I would put it no longer than 40 centimeters, and not choke the emitters like Maul did.
10:54, nah, Jen, Evan was right; it was Raskta, not Valenthyne who noticed Bane's curved hilt.
Glad you guys got this out. Hoping to see these Forecasts a bit more regularly.
one difference between lightsabers and actual swords is that lightsabers generate an enormous amount of friction when they touch each other. It prevents you from sliding down it like with actual swords.
Here's my observations on the variants:
Cross Guard: It presents some interesting opportunities to use the guard blades to open an opponent for counters including things like pommel strikes. It's definitely a power weapon suited to Shii-icho and Djem So as long as the guards are extended though.
Saber Staff: It's a difficult but potentially versatile weapon. As Darth Maul showed it's quite suited to both Juyo and Niman the latter in using the blades to create openings for martial arts strikes and vice versa. It's use of momentum also potentially lends it to Ataru as well. Though it might not be suited to some of the forms some of their principles such as the leverage aspects of Makashi could be adapted to this weapon. As Exar Kun showed it can be used to some extent with Djem So's power strikes though you have to modify your stances to a much more aggressive and open variant.
Light Pike and the WTF Saber: These are basically light spears/glaives. I would expect a Force user wielding one of these to adopt a style very similar to Seung Mina from the Soul Caliber series. Keep the opponent at a distance and use your weapon reach for all it's worth.
Guard Saber/Light Tonfa: I see these being used in conjunction with the Ataru two bladed variant for the most part. These weapons are meant for direct dueling but rather for quick, vicious hit and run tactics where one of the blades is used to block an enemy's attack while rushing in while using the second to quickly stab or slash the enemy and then quickly dart away.
Light Whip: It might seem interesting to see a Jedi or Sith go Belmont on someone but this is easily the most difficult and least practical of the variants. The Belmont reference is telling as I believe a user of this weapon would fight much like Gabriel Belmont from Castlevania: Lords of Darkness uses his combat cross. Just like the cross retracting I would think many users would be practiced with Trakata, the Jedi art of strategically deactivating and reactivating their blade in the middle of a fight. I also think they would be familiar with Sokan, the practice of using one's environment to the fullest. A functional though heavily sophisticated and complex light whip would likely be multi-phase with many preset lengths. One possibility would be to have a very short length wherein the whip acts very similar to how Zero's Z-Saber is shown to act in the Mega Man X games.
In a way, I can relate to a lot of what you guys said. Have you played the video game "Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy?" You play as a Jedi padawan. Throughout most of the game, you use a standard lightsaber, but at the halfway point, you can change to either a dual lightsaber or a saberstaff. Depending on what you choose, changes the mechanics of the gameplay. I tried both of them, and it made the game so much harder. So, I ended up keeping the standard lightsaber.
We do mention in the video that we've played that, yes. It's a great game, definitely the best out there for lightsabre "simulation".
A quick and simple fix for the cross guard saber would be to angle the cross guard beams at a Y shape instead of a T shape you get the same benefits plus the added bonus of being able to swirl it with out the risk of cutting your own wrist off and the ability lock and control your opponents saber between the two beams for a grappling style coup de gra.
Ah Cortosis Pike would be practical. Turn of the opponents lightsaber, then attack
The only thing the tonfa brings to the table is more controlled pommel strikes, however the curved hilt already brings that benefit, as does the saberstaff, which are both better options.
+Reti4 Quick nitpick on the discussion of using a Saberstaff with Djem So- The movements are completely doable. If you turn your hips so your shoulders move, you can, and arguable more effectively do the movements. For the overhead strike, it is possible if you bring your hand down to your side and turn your hips across. The side strike is even easier to do, just put the hilt over your chest and turn your hips. In fact, the hip movement even empowers your strikes! I personally practice bo staff, which is similar to the saberstaff.
Fantastic job as always gentlemen
Thank you very much, I'm sorry it took so long to get this one out, I've had it recorded for 2 and a bit weeks now but I had major PC issues (side note, my next video is on the fast track again now)
The lightpike is just that... a pike. It doesn't need any flamboyant movements to be effective.
In reality, you're right, but in the world of force augmentation I'm afraid pike fighting isn't anywhere near as practical. If you ever meet someone leagues faster than you with only pike methods to draw on you're going to be very dead.
Firstly I would like to say that I mean to produce power you don' need flamboyant movements. I would also like to mention pike men were more valued as anti-cavalry, the speed of a horse vastly out matches that of a person, and it has been shown in history that a good pike man can beat one man on horseback. In some cases by taking out the horse or using his foot work to flank the horse and kill the rider. And I would also like to mention that a good pike man would also have a side-arm or know hand-to-hand fighting for when close quarters were inevitable.
Lane Smith 'Tis true Horses are fast, but they aren't master level Force augmentation fast, and they only charge at you straight on or at a slant. They can't dart around you, flipping, sliding, rolling etc. As for wielding a secondary weapon, that's fine, but we were referring in the video to the weapons being the only weapon of the user. That's why I said you'd need to master spinning the weapon in various ways for close quarter combat when the enemy get under your guard. It's not exactly how they're supposed to be used, but there you go.
Ah, my apologies. Thank you for clarifying what you meant.
Lane Smith No problem, I hope you enjoyed the video.
Awesome breakdown, but Two questions:
1. Sabre-Staff: Why use both blades at once? Why not use it to unbalance your target, by switching between them?
2. Do you think that the crossguard would be more effective on the end of a Sabre-pike? In the same line of thought, why not use the Sabre-pike like a traditional spear? (As in taking advantage of reach and using a more traditional thrusting method, instead of wide slashing moves)
One must also remember that a curve hilted lightsaber also benefits practicioners of the Djem So variant of Form V because having a better, more precise and solid grip on your weapon allows for more devastating power blows.
This is true for one-handed use, but it actually detracts from strength oriented styles with the two-handed approach. And as Djem So is predominantly a two-handed style the advantages of the curved hilt are debatable.
Reti4 very very true, but this weakness can be compensated for by employing a lightsaber with a less radical curve, as well as exerting a bit more force with the rear hand, when bringing the lightsaber down for the overhand chop. But I do see your point.
Listening to the comments about the saberstaff being useless for Makashi because the second blade would be skewering the wielder, I feel the need to point out that in Maul's first combat appearance he only had one blade activated.
On the topic of the saber pike, it's basically a partisan or a spear, and as such would work in the same way, yes it cant do all the moves a standard saber can but it does it really need to? Its most important feature is its REACH and reach is a very important factor when dealing with melee weapons of any kind.
If you outrange the guy you're fighting he's gonna have a much harder time trying to get to you, all you really need to do with the saber pike is keep out of his effective range and poke/cut at him.
There is also the argument that a skilled duelist could simply parry the weapon to one side and rush in, however I think someone who is used to using this weapon would be expecting this and have developed ways of countering it ( a simple misalign would do) providing he was quick enough, which also applies to two guys with standard sabers too.
I dont agree that you would need to be flamboyant with it, its a spear, or more accurately a partisan, you could also go as far to describe it as a naginata. These weapons don't often employ flamboyant flashy, or inefficient movements (outside of show fighting that is).
Damn it i just made a wall of text, ah well. My basic point is is that I don't think it has to be used flamboyantly to be used effectively.
(spears were the standard infantry weapon in antiquity because they are simple to use and you don't need much training to be effective against even the best swordsman because you have better REACH. )
Sorry for spewing out a massive text wall over one little point but hey, thats what this video is about right :P.
p.s REACH!
I can actually see the lightsaber Tonfa being quite useful in the hands of a Niman specialist. Especially with a full sized blade. The options it would provide in combat make it a great weapon for randomized attacks. As you could switch to a standard hilt or rotate the saber 90 degrees you would have yourself a deadly weapon in the hands of someone with great dexterity and control. The 90 degree option would also offer a great defensive component for blast deflection. Redirection may be more difficult due to the blades angle but you can always switch back to standard if necessary. Including Force based attacks into your sequences would also help for keeping any engagement as unpredictable as possible.
I'm surprised this hasn't been explored further and would like to see somebody more heavily featured with something like this.
Great video just wanted to say it was raskta who pointed out banes curved lightsaber
Nice one guys, loving the Council Forcecasts so far. My personal weapon of choice would be a dual-phase light-pike. One phase would be shoto length and the other would be a normal sized blade.
Seeing this Forcecast made me think.
If I am correct, then Japanese samurai had more than two bladed weapons: A katana, dagger or daggers and a bladed pike.
I would be almost as much armed as samurai. Lightsaber pike for beginning contact, minimise risk of point blank bladework. If that isnt necessary or simply fails I switch either to a standard lightsaber,which has a little longer hilt than usual for greater maneuverability or to two shotos in case of cramped space near point blank range of the enemy.
In a open room, 1v1 duel Iwould use any of these, yet switch between those weapons, as unorthodox combat DOES NOT rely only on unorthodox weapons, but also on unorthodox nature or combatants ability to adapt and near naturally find a solution to an impass or disadvantage.Basically I want to adapt, yet keep others guessing. Basically bait and switch or paper rock scissors tactic. Whenever I see open weakness I switch to capitalize.
In one vs multiple I would only last with Jar'kai shotos or with lightsaber pike. Short shotos enable me to become vicious with near rogue like dagger fight mentality, which are especially good in ambushes. Lightsaber pikes enables me to crowd control even better, but obviously lacks ambush advantage.
Also I can be even more unorthodox not only with regular and not so regular blades, but also with alternative weapons, like small gauntlet based energy shields. Lose a lightsaber and have no backup? Energy shield,that is emitted fro gauntlet and cover up to wrist is good enough to protect from any blow and also enables to adapt against enemy bladework by negating them. Unless they are really fast and sweep my legs first. But as we are not so Force enhanced, then I dont worry.
Can I just say you guys are fucking awesome for what you do? I look forward to the next episodes and your discussions are great. Makes me happy to be a SW Fan.
Thank you very much, we appreciate the support. We're hoping to get the next episode out soon.
Awesome! Thanks for the response.
the only way a cross guard shoto I find is useful is for assassins and people who fight in tight spaces, that's it, it's not a battlefield weapon
EDIT: I also think a carved lightsaber could use in other forms like niman but must be practise and the hilt must have a strait section for hand placement
If one were using a set of paired lightsabers, one could easily switch from Djem so to shien, by merely separating the paired lightsabers, and keeping the same grip on the hilts, due to the grip that one normally holds when using a saberstaff.
At 24 minutes Reti4 claims that the Saberstaff would not be good for Form V Djem So due to it not being able to perform overhead swings. However, if you simply deactivated one blade you could do so. So I agree with you, Jensaarai1, that the Saberstaff would be great if used with Form V Djem So.
I’m not gonna say that I disagree with Connor saying that the curved hilt isn’t good for a Niman specialist, but then I started thinking what if you had an Exar Kun style Sith Lord with a curved saberstaff hilt the length of a standard hilt. Sure dexterity is going to be a major importance but imagine the benefits of having the offset blades for Trikata & the weightlessness of the blades actually make it surprisingly easy to maneuver & extremely unpredictable but also INSANELY difficult to master.
How about a light pike with a cross guard laser hilt? That way you could swing it left to right almost like a sledge hammer or even to hold and catch enemy blades. The main blade would obviously have extra reach. You would essentially be wielding it like say a Japanese Yari pike with a jumon-ji blade trying to use the increased length to jab at the enemy's critical spots and then swing it to grab/mutilate enemy legs, arms and necks indirectly. Also seems more useful if you are surrounded by enemies, as far as wielding light pikes go.
Personally, I think that the guard shoto has potential. If one were to lengthen the blade to full size, make it so you cloud either lock the secondary grip in place or unlock it and let it swing free. The lengthened blade would require that you train with the weapon with more dedication resulting in greater skill AND familiarity with it. Plus one would be able to flip it backward and use the hilt to block hits provided that it's machined from.phrik, or forged from cortosis, or flip it forward and use it like you're punching your enemy with the blade of ur lightsaber. Plus you can totally forget the secondary grip, and wield it normally as a standard lightsaber. It has potential, if someone would take the time to master it, nd modify it properly, it would be one of the greatest jedi weapons ever.
If I had to pick a standard variant, it’d have to be either the curved, or the paired and if I could make my own unique saber, I’d make it like senyas lightsaber but I’d make it so that it extended to a saberstaff hilt length, not a pike and I’d make it a double bladed saber. My color? Purple, hands down. I have always loved the color purple and I agree with the philosophy of those that use it. My chosen form? Makashi, shien, djem-so, tre-kata, and soresu.
Isn’t Roblio Darte’s lightsaber also a curved hilt? If it is that would lend it great credibility to Darte having a strong preference for Makashi or Djem So, with the angled blade it could better trap an enemy’s blade in a duel.
I'd probably have an orange (or possibly yellow) standard blade and be a sentinel (I think jedi investigator was the class I felt fit me best), but I'd use a green shoto on its own, more often. I'd use niman and focus on the force push/pull/etc. techniques, so the shorter reach wouldn't be as big an issue, and the smaller size would be better concealed for an investigator. I think the shoto can be thrown as well, with those force techniques.
What species that is capable of producing force sensitive in star wars would make the most deadly Jedi or Sith?
a small thing gentlemen, but the closest thing to the lightwhip is the urumi of india......a sword-ish weapon with a flexible blade and strange cutting motions and specific movement patterns. that is if you talk about any lightwhip EXCEPT for lumiya's.... that thing is just a cat-o-nine-tails (hope i got the spelling right) with one of them being the energy strand
This episode left two questions in my mind. First, what do think would be the advantages or disadvantages of a Saberstaff with 3 or more blades coming out on each side?
The second, where did you get all those Lightsabers you used in the episodes? The Darksaber, the Saberstaff, and the others.
The light club would be for people like Shaquille O'Neal, or Tarfful the wookie, as Tarfful is one of the larger defender wookies, 8 foot tall, mostly five hundred pounds of pure muscle and fur.
The impracticality of a traditional staff doesn't come from the need to manipulate it more than the sword to land a blow, but the lack of a killing edge. However this is necessary in order to give the user a fuller range of motion/manipulation. I think the saberstaff's weakness is actually the inability of the user to grip it wherever he/she pleases. If a sort of sliding handle could somehow be implemented then traditional staff techniques could be used. This would make saberstaff users much more dangerous.
Think about a saberstaff with a handle that could slide or extend with slight force manipulation. I would be able to wield it in order to use baseball swing techniques, while also being able to swing it with more leverage. It sort of makes the pike obsolete filling the role of both types of sabers.
As it is now saberstaff users are unable to use the strengths of a traditional staff, exploiting only the existence of two blade and the intimidation factor of its spinning movements. This can be seen in Darth Maul's fighting. As soon as one of his blades makes contact he attempts to strike his opponent with the other.
So here's an idea I'm just throwing out there because if I where to be a jedi it's a form I would feel most comfortable with; what if you used a reverse gripped Jar' Kai: Niman style and practiced Force maneuvers in a punching style. Picture slashing with one of either hand and then performing a Force push or pull with a punch shape (with the hilt obviously in hand because it won't hinder a fist shape). You simply push out with your fist or draw in for a pull.. and even directing your telekinetic attacks by simply pointing your fist?
I personally would love a saber staff, Larger surface area for defense and attack and faster striking with some moves. I would fight like Exar Kun but use the single blade and surprise people with the second blade when least expected, then return to a normal stance.
As someone who would be a, hopefully I could pull it off, battlemaster's niman who has trained to be capable with most of the variations, curved hilt, conjoining hilts, dual phase. all of the more tame variations the thing Jensaaram brought up before leaving would be viable so I'm not just limited to a single base lightsaber when I'm trained for most of them, then when all of that is not viable I just return to a single lightsaber and go to my main focus in the force.
I would probably have an orange dual phase lightsaber that changes to bright yellow when shortened with a slightly longer hilt and a curve-hilted dual phase with a silver blade that becomes dark purple when shortened (the second one being for similar reasons as Reti's) and use Form V(both variants)/III hybrid
That last bit is the SABER OF RIGHTEOUSNESS
also the saber tonfa if the grip was moved right up to the emitter then that would allow for one hell of a over the head downward strike. Allowing for more weight with the rest of the arm instead of just the wrist. As for other combat capabilities I'm looking at putting that into the hands of a boxer or karate expert and just having them send out a flurry of punches. Their not fighting styles that a jedi or sith are familiar with but could be taught, mixed with the radical nature of the tonfa being used as a purely offensive weapon. With Ataru the goal would be to get into close range within the first few seconds, evade or deflect the saber when first drawn and then punch through your opponent. Force wielders who are accustomed to using their entire body as a weapon should have no problem with this as a weapon. Still not great for blast deflection.
There is a rumor going around that the cross guard mechanism fires lightsaber bolts at a rapid fire setting so in reality it is useful for not only blocking but also machine gun executing your foes.
Ok i have an idea that I personally think would benefit the curved hilt, but first i have to say that the curved hilt sabre isn't quite represented properly considering that if you look at every curved hilt, the curves are different, some are gentle transitions others are instant shift 30 degrees and others have 2 bends in em... Mine would personally be a fairly straight hilt with a gradual curve near the pommel, on the curve there will be a trigger on the pommel when pressed and pulled it will extend the hilt to a longer length (hopefully connecting a separate power setting to get more of a swing) to be used as a blast deflection or change in forms, the crystals are a synthetic crystal made by lignan ore backed up by i think it's a sigil crystal? (The second one is a crystal that makes the blade easier to control) and i will pair this weapon with another similar one that is a dual phase shoto that can extend rather than shorten
Best way two Shotos could be used: The Egyptian gladiator in the 2nd season of Spartacus, the one that kills Doctore in he finale
Playing devil's advocate for the guard shoto, I could see it's use as more of a less lethal option for a lightsaber. Yes, you're carrying a lightsaber that with the long side of grip that could act for blast deflection, but held as a tonfa without the blade active, especially if made from a lightsaber resistant material it could be used as an impact weapon to disable an opponent without the risk of maiming them. Not a fan of the guard shoto, and no idea if it was ever used like that in the EU but it was a thought.
As for the Inquisitor lightsaber in Disney canon, Connor, I think you should probably check Jedi Fallen Order for the Second Sister alone. She's the only Disney canon Inquisitor that comes close, in terms of skills, power and MO, to the EU Inquisitors. And the only one with a somewhat interesting story.
Loved the video, but there were times when it looked as though Reti4 was saying that all lightsaber variations are inferior to the standard lightsaber. I'm sure that he wasn't trying to say that, but I got that impression a lot in this vid. My lightsaber would be a standard lightsaber. The design would look exactly like Mace windu's saber, and the weapon would have a dual phase function. My lightsabers blade color would be Navy blue. My lightsaber form would be Vaapad. The backbone to my Vaapad would be Makashi, Ataru, and Djem So. I would also have another lightsaber in the event that I'd need 2 Lighsabers. And the blade color for that lightsaber would be white.
Also (I know this sounds stupid and bash me for it) but the lightwhip is meant for Dominatrix or Sadists. Those who just get a kick out of seeing their opponents in pain (and are into that shit) should use it.
I believe that +Reti4 is wrong there. I disagree, is what I should say. Because with the saberstaff, you can enter a bladelock with your opponent, and instead of bringing the other blade ALL THE WAY around, you can bring it up from the opposite direction of the blade with which you first struck.
You just earned a new subscriber Reti4
Well done
I'd use a black-blue bladed lightsaber pike and specialize in ataru, djem-so and juyo. Maybe throw niman in there.
As for force powers I'd use telekenisis on the same manner as Corran Horn, focus on both telepathy and force lightning, and have a basic understanding of healing.
The saberstaff can be used as a traditional light saber. You can always turn one of the blades off.
After seeing a bigger picture of the cross guard saber I feel that the two side emitters will move in some way, spinning around or closing up somehow to maybe make the main saber stronger or augment it someway.
My only real disagreement (as of 42:25) is I think a Shoto would be just fine for blast deflection, albeit slightly limited for the legs, a standard lightsaber more than covers your center mass, because of the amount of control most force sensitives have, they wouldn't need all that length to protect any of their upper body, a Shoto could just as easily defend the torso and head but possibly even better because it's quicker, the only weakness would be defending the legs as it would be out of reach, so sorta disagree, sorta agree.
I'd have a set of guard shotos with purple blades made of phiaik and the handle would be parallel to the emitter with a magnet connection to my arm guards I'd be a ataru specialist with a little bit of vapad to back it up
Question for Jesaarai. If paired lightsabers were not an option, would you choose dual blades or a saberstaff?
Guys when you look at weapons, the most practical and effective light saber style is the lightpike Or In my words lightglaive. It has range, leverage, a long pole for grappling and attacking. Next would be the standard since it is basically a sword, Then the shoto or rondel saber. Then the rest are just equally not needed. Also light club. No. Light greatsword more like. clubs are often small and wide.
I would go with Purple, and Niman as my style, with elements of Makashi, and Soresu. :)
Great Podcast! Highly enjoyble as always!
For me I would go for a more radical variant and style. Where I a Jedi or a Sith I would use a compressed synthetic crystal shorto with snap ignition and paired with a light shield and a vibro-tench knife or karombit like blade.
Now for the light saber I would build it from a lightsaber resistant material and I would rob out all of the power cells. I would power it using essentially a shock gauntlet with the power cells on my body and power pickups in the hilt. This also gives me a shock gauntlet in case I get disarmed. Instead of power cells I would construct the hilt out of rings to allow me to extend the hilt from a one handed affair all the way out to a six foot spear or flexing the hilt into a curve.
For the shield I would have two settings, full sized shield and a small buckler. I would also have a means of strapping it to my arm or holding it in my off hand. I would also carry the knife in a reverse off hand grip, giving me more options. Also if I use the saber double handed having a knife in my off hand make pommel strikes lethal rather than just an annoyance.
My go to style would be a mixture of makashi, i34 buckler and the Roland Walcheka school of viking sword and shield combat. As a spear I would go with a very aggresive stabbing style, using the blade like a spear or beyonette with the defense provided by the shield.
The problem with spears is that they are a pole arm, therefore inconvenient to carry. The big advantage that swords have is they are a side arm, one you can wear at your side.
Spears are a battlefield weapon that pretty much own swords through all of history. Cheaper, much quicker to learn and far more effective.
My thought was a weapon for a droid that used its weilders own power source, that had both the advantages of a side arm with the advantage of a spear.
But year, shields are fairly awesome and light shields even more so.
Concept? I got the light shield right out of wookipedia- its from one of the RPGs. Apparently younglings use them whilst training not to cut their own arms off. Multiple pre-set shapes and configurations are also mentioned.
Personal energy shields have had cannon appearances in TCW as well as the main armor of gunguns in the phantom menace.
For mine I think I would have a phrink center boss to cover the emitter, that way I could use it like a buckler if I couldn't or didn't want to activate it...possibly with built in electrodes. It also means I only need to have the radial emitter.
The force unleashed mentions a Darth Desolous who built an army of coriatis shield users in about ~3500 BBY. The war to crush them killed over 2000 jedi. How cannon any of this is or ever was is up in the air right now.
I would use 2 standard lightsabers training in niman and onto Jar'kai with a focus on makshi, ataru and djemso. I may change one of the light sabers to a shoto if I feel two standard are too long. Both blades would be purple due to me liking that colour and it has some benefits.
Imagined a set of paired, dual-phased lightsabers. Conner Im pretty sure your imagination will run wild with that.
That would be a nearly perfect weapon.
haha ikr?
Podcast guys great
I fucking love Connor. manages to crack me up all the time
1 red light saber and 1 yellow shoto (not sure how to spell it) form: Djem So and Ataru maybe soresu. Variant: Purple Double Bladed saber.
I figured that force abilities and dual-sabers being used at the same time would be somewhat similar to Zuko using his bifurcating swords and fire-bending at the same time in A:TLA
That's actually something I've thought about before funnily enough. As we mentioned the best of the best can pull it off, it's just made a lot harder by the fact you have less physical movement to help trigger the force abilities.
I feel like you guys don't give the saber-staff enough credit, especially in one on one combat. While the saber-staff loses out on a few advantages a traditional quarter-staff would have; it still retains the most important ones when it comes to dueling. If anything the saber-staff is inferior compared to a traditional light-saber when it comes to taking on multiple opponents. The reason for this is because the saber-staff, due to it's design, can not be used in all the ways a staff would be and you lose a LOT of reach and freedom of movement when performing wide sweeping attacks. The strength of the saber-staff is as Jensaarai tried to say repeatedly. The saber-staff's strength is in your ability to perform repeated, fast paced, leveraged power hits in extremely close quarters while using the minimal amount of energy and footwork to do so. It is a power weapon of the highest degree. It was said repeatedly that a saber-staff loses out on predictability due to ...predictable vectors of attack. This is not true. A staff like weapon, held in the center, can perform attacks in any order or variation from any possible angle with as much speed and far more power and only loses out in confined quarters. Where the saber-staff loses out is in defense in single combat. Leverage, weight, and mechanics make blocking with the center of the staff or using the opposite end of the staff as an anchor against your own body by adjusting your fulcrum the only viable options. Though very strong options, the saber-staff can do neither effectively leaving entire areas of your person open. Especially if your opponent carried an off handed weapon. However in open terrain this become for less of a concern. Footwork can make up for this weakness and you could remain on the offense. Hammering your opponent over and over and over with strong, fast paced power hits while only using a fraction of the energy required of your defender and far less concentration.
Another interesting discussion from the Council. I really enjoyed hearing each of your opinions on the various hilts and what forms you felt were suited to them.
It's a shame that the others were unable to participate. What are your opinions on the lightsaber forms themselves from both a technical and philosophical point of view? (This question is for all members of the Council)
But guys, you ignore the fact (with lightsaber pikes) that with actual polearms the thing that makes them viable is the fact that the weight is almost entirely on the metal edge. The wooden section is light in comparison, which gives it more momentum. The lightsaber pike does not have this feature; in fact, the staff section is MUCH heavier, making the weapon extremely impractical or even impossible to use.
In the real world with real metals. Anything is possible in the galaxy far far away.
Thanks.
My thoughts on the light whip would be how the assassin wield the monofilament wire in Johny Mnemonic.
Question about Lightwhips, do they utilize crystals like lightsabers or are they powered by a different sort of energy? Also, how is the blade so agile? I was under the assumption that magnetic fields/force keep the blades of lightsabers in place, so how is the whip contained to be "solid" but also mobile? Final question, does it have the same cutting power as a lightsaber, meaning tangling opponents would be harder because you would simply slice them to bits instead?
lol, at Evan getting a pissy look when you mentioned using a saber staff in a vertical defense pattern negates most, if not all, of Yoda attack patterns.
Form VI or III because I'm too lazy for Juyo.
Green standard for Soresu or 2x green for Niman or green saberstaff
as for Sith - Darth Krayt's Jar'kai Niman or Juyo with red saberstaff
A saber-pike with an entirely curved hilt.
Force somebody to fight with that and enjoy the richest entertainment there is.
Heh heh, that would most certainly be an amusing sight.
wouldn't a good combination for the light whip be a duel phase light saber that turned into a shoto? with practice you could probably use the shoto to change the angle and path of the light whip while also being able to rapidly defend yourself when your opponent got in close.another option would be to have a backup lightsaber but also wear mandalorian iron gloves so you could effectively change the attack angle with your hands.