The trainer's did the best job possible given the situation. Props to the Habs staff helping as well. Man, it was so scary to see live. The game honestly didn't matter to me after that.
As a habs fan,i was feeled so bad for Tavares ans also perry was going to apologize to Tavares before leaving the ice,for me it’s was very awesome for me 🙂
100%. That’s what I was trying to explain to most people, when you really try to do it in real life, you have a different level of understanding of how hard this is!
@@SonamMD Do you think the impact of the 1st hit exacerbated the injury from the impact of the 2nd? Is it better to be limp or prepared for a hit to the head?
@@walexander8378 well, the first hit sent him going in one direction, and the knee came going in the opposite direction, so surely that didn't help. As for whether being prepared is better or not, I have no idea, just stating that the first hit surely had some negative contribution here
This was cool, helpful. I have one suggestion: i really clicked just to hear what possible injuries Tavares could have. You quickly threw out things like head, spine, brain bleed, concussion, but i think really stopping and saying "these are the following possible injuries he may have: 1. 2. 3." Would be really good for your target sports fan audience. Keep up the good work, and good for you for getting this out so fast.
Hi Jason. Thanks for the feedback. Your right In most of my videos I go through the potential injuries. I did list them off here as well. The big question I wanted to answer was the management of him on the ice as I had seen many people questioning and expressing their opinions. Thanks for the support :) stay tuned for more detailed injury breakdown videos!
As a Leafs fan, who certainly woke up anxious amongst others, this was incredibly reassuring and informative on his concussion. Thank you for your help and services, Go Leafs Go!
I am really glad all his scans came back as normal as well! I mean he will likely be off on concussion protocol for a bit, but this was the best case scenario given the hit. I'd love to see the Leafs when the cup sometime during my lifetime :) - I wasn't around in the 60's haha.
That’s a tricky question. He’s going to need to have to progress through the concussion protocol without symptoms before being clear to play. To be honest in terms of how severe the concussion is. I have seen terrible hits result in minimal symptoms and small hits result in prolonged symptoms. So this is a tricky one when it comes to return to play. Is it possible yes- but be prepared for a no as well.
@@nicolas6796 Thanks for the support! I'm glad you found the info helpful. I love having discussions on these topics because everyone has their own unique viewpoints.
As an xray/ct technologist I immediately thought the same (bleed or cspine fracture). According the Sheldon Keefe in a post game interview, his tests came back clear. Head/spine injuries are usually sent to us for imaging pretty quickly so I'm hoping those are the tests he's referring to!
Just for my own clarification, the first man who was stabilizing C spine right away should have actually prioritized getting him on his back first before stabilizing? If I’m understanding that correctly is the reason he should be getting him on his back first because since he’s showing signs of movement we’d know there’s no immediate paralysis or something to that degree? I’m just curious to know if there is always a step 1 or 2 or is dependent on the situation Thank you for the breakdown! Very informative
This is a great question. Even if someone is moving, after a hit like that u should have one person go in and grab the neck like the trainer was doing. Then two people will be needed to guide him down. Now say for exam he was out cold on his stomach. The first person would be at the head trying to stabilize it as best as they can. But the priority here would be to log roll the patient to the back while trying not to exert too much rotational force on the C-spine (this is easier said than done!). Reason being they may be a fracture that could be dislodged if the patient continues to move their neck. That may result in paralysis.
You are right doc. John is also disorientated and I would say the trainer is telling him to stay down but as an elite athlete and a powerful one John is acting on instinct to get up. He only understands he condition only when he falls back. As someone who has experienced injury that I can say you don't know the extent of a serious injury until you attempt to get back up at it and you fail. Also this was on ice and that to made John look even more awkward. Same sentiment as most and that is I pray John is well and also don't forget pray for his loved ones who witnessed it and love him.
Agreed! His scan appeared to come back as normal so he’s avoided the most severe of the injuries. He still may have to battle his concussion symptoms when it comes to return to play.
From what I saw when he got hit by the knee it was directly over his right eye which I assume means the brunt of the hit was taken by the glass eye covering(Idk what it’s called) so I would be not as concerned with skull fracture but definitely a concussion. Also with the amount of force from the sliding player and the speed John’s neck whipped back his neck would have 100% taken the most abuse from that hit so I think the trainer did a great job trying to stabilize his cervical
For sure. Yea he was definitely bleeding over his face, so that mechanism would make sense. If the force was taken over the eye, you would still want to make sure there was no cause for an orbital bone fracture as well. Unfortunately, these guys don't wear full face shields so we have low index of suspicion to assess for these. As for the c-spine. I agree, I thought the trainer did as good a job as he could to stabilize. Tavares was 100% trying to get up and only went back down when he collapsed. This is never an ideal situation as a trainer on the ice, however you have to make do. Athletes tend to be confused and dazed after a head injury, so having them listen and carry out commands may not be as effective.
Yeah I understand what you mean about him trying to get up and as for the blood I think he broke his nose. But I don’t get what people are scrutinizing the trainer for. Also I think you could make some good videos off this last ufc card. The the jacare souza arm injury was wild one or one explaining the tony Ferguson ankle lock that he somehow didn’t tap from You make great videos looking forward to seeing more
Don’t know if it’s too much hockey content already or if it’s too similar to the Tavares incident, but Jake Evans from the Canadiens just took a really nasty hit that seemed to knock him out cold and was stretchered off as a result. It’d be interesting to hear a doctor’s perspective on it.
It's now been confirmed that he has a knee injury as a result of the incident. How do you explain that? Looks like when he fell backwards when trying to get up he twisted his knee.
I also think that potentially when Tavares woke up after the hit, he tried to sit up because he had no clue what really happened, and then he fell unconscious. It wasn't the trainers fault because at the same time he's trying to hold the spine, it's very difficult to keep Tavares on the ice when he's not aware of what just happened. The trainer really did his best and it's not fair that he's getting criticized for it
sweet video! explained perfectly. just a thought... even though his neuro scans came back good, is it possible that he could still have some sort of long term neurological impairment??
Possibly! We know you can have longstanding neurological problems from a severe concussion. His scans being normal means nothing structurally was damaged. However, this does not account for injury at the cellular and molecular level which can contribute to lasting effects. Not always the case, but things to consider.
@@kYA00h Yea. I've personally seem people walk away after brutal hits in my practice. Honestly, we cant always explain it! In terms of how bad his concussion symptoms are. Time will tell.
Ideally .you wouldn't want the victim to move or you might risk aggravating the injury especially in spinal injuries . But as you can see the victim is in a daze trying to get up before falling onto his back . I'm sure the trainer would've told him not to . But what can you do ? Right . What we are thought to do in a scenario . And what usually what happens during one is completely different. The trainer stabilizing his neck probably saved his life considering how many vital Nerves come out of that exact area on his neck .
Definitely. You just have to go with the flow. But it’s so hard to control a confused and dazed athlete and I really feel for that trainer. Being scrutinized on national television is never easy.
The first hit did not disorient him. It wasn't much in terms of hockey hits. It would have been worse if it was knee on knee, which was close to happening. The only damage incurred was from the knee.
Yeup. The first hit just kinda took him for a spin but didn't cause the damage we would be worried about. But because of that, he unfortunately wasn't aware of the impending knee to his head because he was knocked off balance originally.
Lots of you are asking about return to play. First off we know that his original tests came back clear - this means no fracture/bleed. This does not mean he still does not suffer from a concussion. Concussion's are diagnosed clinically and not on imaging. They will likely be putting him on the NHL concussion protocol. If you want to learn more about how an athlete progresses through it, check out my video where I review and outline the NFL protocol. This is very similar for NHL as well. It will give you a better understanding of expectations. ua-cam.com/video/qrUMSSNTNjc/v-deo.html Low likelihood he will be back for the TOR vs MTL series. But can he come back after - definitely on the table.
This video was super informative and I was one of those people that was cursing the first responders for not keeping him stable though in hindsight and with your inside I can agree that they did the best they could
Yeup. It’s super hard to appreciate it by watching. But when your stuck in that scenario, it’s hard to tell a 250lbs confused athlete not to move. They tend to do the exact opposite.
I love that she refers to them as "Gentleman" in this situation haha. Don't mean to laugh but that was funny. The incident in question is not funny however. I am not a leafs fan but I really am worried about the outcome of this. I really hope he is okay.
For sure, thats one main reason we needed to make sure his c-spine was stabilized. That type of whiplash is dangerous to the neck. In some cases, severe whiplash can also cause diffuse brain injury, so its a secondary thing we look for.
The only positive thing about this is that the neck did just that. Its not as bad as if the knee would have been on top of the head, and pressed downwards. But still a high risk trauma.
Under all the circumstances. The docs did a great job. There working on ice with a player in equipment like a wet noodle ! The staff did everything they could.
The guy is trying to stabilize the neck of a 215 lbs + equipment (probably about 240lbs) player ON FKING ICE. Give the guys a fking break. Tavares got up by himself.
Long term, perhaps. But if an MMA fighter took a knee to the face and couldn't get up and collapsed the fight would be called. They would likely end up getting head and neck injury as well. Regardless of the sport, we work up all injuries the same. There is also potential long term effects of repetitive head injuries to consider as well. MMA fighters are tough tho! I'll give you that. They put up with a lot of pain.
MMA fighters also see it coming and can brace for it. This was a completely blindsided hit. He was going down in one direction and got bit bam in the other direction at possibly 30mph.
Good point. Not sure about the eye from video footage. But I was thinking about whether or not he had a seizure which took him down. Usually in intra-cranial bleeds or extremely bad head hits, you can unfortunately see a seizure. From what I saw of the video footage, it look liked he was loosing consciousness vs a seizure. There are a few things we look for on exam - tonic convulsions, tongue biting, and the patient soiling themselves which are indicative of a seizure. I don't think that is what we say, but my information is limited and this is speculation.
When you're concussed like that, you might not even be aware of where you are or what just happened. Shouldn't the assistant trainer have been holding Tavares down to prevent him from getting up, knowing he probably wouldn't be obeying instructions?
That’s sometimes not the safest or easiest thing to do. It’s really hard to forcefully hold someone down. It’s important to guide them as gently as possible.
Haha yea. To be honest it got to the point in medial school I was eating lunch during all my lectures. Some things were a bit more gruesome to say the least. I find these ones are tough because they are recorded by cameras in slow mo/different angles so you can relive the injury over and over.
The trainer's did the best job possible given the situation. Props to the Habs staff helping as well. Man, it was so scary to see live. The game honestly didn't matter to me after that.
Yeup. It’s tough to keep playing when your captain goes down that like. Mentally really messes with the team.
As a habs fan,i was feeled so bad for Tavares ans also perry was going to apologize to Tavares before leaving the ice,for me it’s was very awesome for me 🙂
Remember that they're on ice with basically a limp 200 pound man
100%. That’s what I was trying to explain to most people, when you really try to do it in real life, you have a different level of understanding of how hard this is!
@@SonamMD Do you think the impact of the 1st hit exacerbated the injury from the impact of the 2nd? Is it better to be limp or prepared for a hit to the head?
@@walexander8378 well, the first hit sent him going in one direction, and the knee came going in the opposite direction, so surely that didn't help.
As for whether being prepared is better or not, I have no idea, just stating that the first hit surely had some negative contribution here
This was cool, helpful. I have one suggestion: i really clicked just to hear what possible injuries Tavares could have. You quickly threw out things like head, spine, brain bleed, concussion, but i think really stopping and saying "these are the following possible injuries he may have: 1. 2. 3." Would be really good for your target sports fan audience. Keep up the good work, and good for you for getting this out so fast.
4:54
Hi Jason. Thanks for the feedback. Your right In most of my videos I go through the potential injuries. I did list them off here as well. The big question I wanted to answer was the management of him on the ice as I had seen many people questioning and expressing their opinions. Thanks for the support :) stay tuned for more detailed injury breakdown videos!
As a Leafs fan, who certainly woke up anxious amongst others, this was incredibly reassuring and informative on his concussion. Thank you for your help and services, Go Leafs Go!
I am really glad all his scans came back as normal as well! I mean he will likely be off on concussion protocol for a bit, but this was the best case scenario given the hit. I'd love to see the Leafs when the cup sometime during my lifetime :) - I wasn't around in the 60's haha.
@@SonamMD how long do you think he will be out. do you think if the leafs makes it far enough he will be able to play again?
That’s a tricky question. He’s going to need to have to progress through the concussion protocol without symptoms before being clear to play. To be honest in terms of how severe the concussion is. I have seen terrible hits result in minimal symptoms and small hits result in prolonged symptoms. So this is a tricky one when it comes to return to play. Is it possible yes- but be prepared for a no as well.
@@SonamMD thanks for the quick and detailed response. earned a subscriber
@@nicolas6796 Thanks for the support! I'm glad you found the info helpful. I love having discussions on these topics because everyone has their own unique viewpoints.
As an xray/ct technologist I immediately thought the same (bleed or cspine fracture). According the Sheldon Keefe in a post game interview, his tests came back clear. Head/spine injuries are usually sent to us for imaging pretty quickly so I'm hoping those are the tests he's referring to!
Yea I believe that means his head and neck CTs were normal. Unfortunately he still may have wicked concussion symptoms and may be out for a while :(
Just for my own clarification, the first man who was stabilizing C spine right away should have actually prioritized getting him on his back first before stabilizing? If I’m understanding that correctly is the reason he should be getting him on his back first because since he’s showing signs of movement we’d know there’s no immediate paralysis or something to that degree? I’m just curious to know if there is always a step 1 or 2 or is dependent on the situation
Thank you for the breakdown! Very informative
This is a great question. Even if someone is moving, after a hit like that u should have one person go in and grab the neck like the trainer was doing. Then two people will be needed to guide him down.
Now say for exam he was out cold on his stomach. The first person would be at the head trying to stabilize it as best as they can. But the priority here would be to log roll the patient to the back while trying not to exert too much rotational force on the C-spine (this is easier said than done!). Reason being they may be a fracture that could be dislodged if the patient continues to move their neck. That may result in paralysis.
You are right doc. John is also disorientated and I would say the trainer is telling him to stay down but as an elite athlete and a powerful one John is acting on instinct to get up. He only understands he condition only when he falls back. As someone who has experienced injury that I can say you don't know the extent of a serious injury until you attempt to get back up at it and you fail. Also this was on ice and that to made John look even more awkward. Same sentiment as most and that is I pray John is well and also don't forget pray for his loved ones who witnessed it and love him.
Agreed! His scan appeared to come back as normal so he’s avoided the most severe of the injuries. He still may have to battle his concussion symptoms when it comes to return to play.
From what I saw when he got hit by the knee it was directly over his right eye which I assume means the brunt of the hit was taken by the glass eye covering(Idk what it’s called) so I would be not as concerned with skull fracture but definitely a concussion. Also with the amount of force from the sliding player and the speed John’s neck whipped back his neck would have 100% taken the most abuse from that hit so I think the trainer did a great job trying to stabilize his cervical
For sure. Yea he was definitely bleeding over his face, so that mechanism would make sense. If the force was taken over the eye, you would still want to make sure there was no cause for an orbital bone fracture as well. Unfortunately, these guys don't wear full face shields so we have low index of suspicion to assess for these.
As for the c-spine. I agree, I thought the trainer did as good a job as he could to stabilize. Tavares was 100% trying to get up and only went back down when he collapsed. This is never an ideal situation as a trainer on the ice, however you have to make do. Athletes tend to be confused and dazed after a head injury, so having them listen and carry out commands may not be as effective.
Yeah I understand what you mean about him trying to get up and as for the blood I think he broke his nose. But I don’t get what people are scrutinizing the trainer for.
Also I think you could make some good videos off this last ufc card. The the jacare souza arm injury was wild one or one explaining the tony Ferguson ankle lock that he somehow didn’t tap from
You make great videos looking forward to seeing more
Yea I agree. I'll definitely take a look. It busy with moving offices, so videos slowed down a bit. Gonna start ramping them up again :)
Do you think that he will be able to play agian and if so how long would the recovery would be?
Im really worried because he is my favorite player and I don't want this to be that last game that I watch him play.
Same question.
@@noah_773 its not gonna be is last game don’t worry but his season is definitely over
@@opleafsbaby5810 Ok I was just scared because my dad said that could be possibly be a career ending injury
Won’t know till later
Nice breakdown!
thanks!
Don’t know if it’s too much hockey content already or if it’s too similar to the Tavares incident, but Jake Evans from the Canadiens just took a really nasty hit that seemed to knock him out cold and was stretchered off as a result. It’d be interesting to hear a doctor’s perspective on it.
Just saw that this morning. I’m going to put together a bit of an update video. It looks pretty bad.
Just released the video. Thanks for the heads up. Check it out :)
Could there be a concern for a cervical or vertebral artery dissection after violent head and neck injury like this one?
Yea it’s definitely on our radar for sure.
It's now been confirmed that he has a knee injury as a result of the incident. How do you explain that? Looks like when he fell backwards when trying to get up he twisted his knee.
Any injury to head or face hurts bad. I always sort of cringe when I see them. Cause I already know it’s bad
They definitely hurt to watch...
I felt sick when it happened live
Thank you for the awesome reaction Dr. 👍
Thanks. I hope you found the information informative.
I also think that potentially when Tavares woke up after the hit, he tried to sit up because he had no clue what really happened, and then he fell unconscious. It wasn't the trainers fault because at the same time he's trying to hold the spine, it's very difficult to keep Tavares on the ice when he's not aware of what just happened. The trainer really did his best and it's not fair that he's getting criticized for it
Yea I agree 100%
sweet video!
explained perfectly.
just a thought...
even though his neuro scans came back good, is it possible that he could still have some sort of long term neurological impairment??
Possibly! We know you can have longstanding neurological problems from a severe concussion. His scans being normal means nothing structurally was damaged. However, this does not account for injury at the cellular and molecular level which can contribute to lasting effects. Not always the case, but things to consider.
thanks for the response, so the scans prove their value? its so hard to believe it is only a concussion, seeing it live was quite impactual.
@@kYA00h Yea. I've personally seem people walk away after brutal hits in my practice. Honestly, we cant always explain it! In terms of how bad his concussion symptoms are. Time will tell.
I love your videos !
Thanks! I'm glad you find them helpful :)
Ta/var/es Tavares not tevers
Haha thanks.
Ideally .you wouldn't want the victim to move or you might risk aggravating the injury especially in spinal injuries . But as you can see the victim is in a daze trying to get up before falling onto his back . I'm sure the trainer would've told him not to . But what can you do ? Right . What we are thought to do in a scenario . And what usually what happens during one is completely different. The trainer stabilizing his neck probably saved his life considering how many vital Nerves come out of that exact area on his neck .
Definitely. You just have to go with the flow. But it’s so hard to control a confused and dazed athlete and I really feel for that trainer. Being scrutinized on national television is never easy.
The first hit did not disorient him. It wasn't much in terms of hockey hits. It would have been worse if it was knee on knee, which was close to happening. The only damage incurred was from the knee.
Yeup. The first hit just kinda took him for a spin but didn't cause the damage we would be worried about. But because of that, he unfortunately wasn't aware of the impending knee to his head because he was knocked off balance originally.
Lots of you are asking about return to play. First off we know that his original tests came back clear - this means no fracture/bleed. This does not mean he still does not suffer from a concussion. Concussion's are diagnosed clinically and not on imaging.
They will likely be putting him on the NHL concussion protocol. If you want to learn more about how an athlete progresses through it, check out my video where I review and outline the NFL protocol. This is very similar for NHL as well. It will give you a better understanding of expectations.
ua-cam.com/video/qrUMSSNTNjc/v-deo.html
Low likelihood he will be back for the TOR vs MTL series. But can he come back after - definitely on the table.
This video was super informative and I was one of those people that was cursing the first responders for not keeping him stable though in hindsight and with your inside I can agree that they did the best they could
Yeup. It’s super hard to appreciate it by watching. But when your stuck in that scenario, it’s hard to tell a 250lbs confused athlete not to move. They tend to do the exact opposite.
Nice breakdown, but you keep calling him "Travares."
My bad!
Wow great content!
Glad you like it :)
I love that she refers to them as "Gentleman" in this situation haha. Don't mean to laugh but that was funny. The incident in question is not funny however. I am not a leafs fan but I really am worried about the outcome of this. I really hope he is okay.
Is Perry really a gentleman 😂 I’m not to sure lol
Lol Yeup totally did 😏
@@SonamMD you rock :) really enjoyed your video
@@robbysuter7577 Thanks!
He was bleeding out of his eye I watched it live or did he have a Seizure
I thought I saw the same.
Cut from the helmet/visor most likely
The knee hit him hard and bent his head back fast which would of snapped the spinal/ neck
For sure, thats one main reason we needed to make sure his c-spine was stabilized. That type of whiplash is dangerous to the neck. In some cases, severe whiplash can also cause diffuse brain injury, so its a secondary thing we look for.
The only positive thing about this is that the neck did just that. Its not as bad as if the knee would have been on top of the head, and pressed downwards. But still a high risk trauma.
Under all the circumstances. The docs did a great job. There working on ice with a player in equipment like a wet noodle ! The staff did everything they could.
Yea they really did!
As a leafs fan watching this live it was one of the scariest moments ever
I know! As a Canadian myself, this is a hard series to watch! And that hit even made me squirm!
agreed, reminded me of pacioretty on chara s hit, as a hab fan, was hard to watch
Pacioretty had several fractures to the neck a think
@@chuckl848 i have think to pacioretty too
I thought of the worst that he was dying
New background nice!
Haha yea working on a new office! Still got to work on a few things before its finalized. Moving is a lot of work haha.
@@SonamMD as long as baby yoda is in the background I’m satisfied
The guy is trying to stabilize the neck of a 215 lbs + equipment (probably about 240lbs) player ON FKING ICE. Give the guys a fking break. Tavares got up by himself.
100% - as a small 5 foot 2 doc. Man this is tough!
No different than an MMA fighter taking a knee to the face. He will be fine.
Long term, perhaps. But if an MMA fighter took a knee to the face and couldn't get up and collapsed the fight would be called. They would likely end up getting head and neck injury as well. Regardless of the sport, we work up all injuries the same. There is also potential long term effects of repetitive head injuries to consider as well.
MMA fighters are tough tho! I'll give you that. They put up with a lot of pain.
MMA fighters also see it coming and can brace for it. This was a completely blindsided hit. He was going down in one direction and got bit bam in the other direction at possibly 30mph.
He is able to life up his arm, so he will be fine.
Always a good sign!
He was bleeding out of his eye I watched it live or did he have a
Good point. Not sure about the eye from video footage. But I was thinking about whether or not he had a seizure which took him down. Usually in intra-cranial bleeds or extremely bad head hits, you can unfortunately see a seizure. From what I saw of the video footage, it look liked he was loosing consciousness vs a seizure. There are a few things we look for on exam - tonic convulsions, tongue biting, and the patient soiling themselves which are indicative of a seizure. I don't think that is what we say, but my information is limited and this is speculation.
When you're concussed like that, you might not even be aware of where you are or what just happened. Shouldn't the assistant trainer have been holding Tavares down to prevent him from getting up, knowing he probably wouldn't be obeying instructions?
That’s sometimes not the safest or easiest thing to do. It’s really hard to forcefully hold someone down. It’s important to guide them as gently as possible.
@@SonamMD That makes sense. Thanks!
Another injury that isn't easy to watch. But after the snapped leg and testicle rupture videos maybe we're all used to it lol
Haha yea. To be honest it got to the point in medial school I was eating lunch during all my lectures. Some things were a bit more gruesome to say the least. I find these ones are tough because they are recorded by cameras in slow mo/different angles so you can relive the injury over and over.
Great Video! only small critique would be the pronouncing of his last name 😂 other than that, really appreciate the insight 👌🏻
Haha yea My bad. Glad you liked the video though :)
Toronto got screwed leafs in 6
Total tool
Is that a tinfoil hat?
Looks like a headband or bandana
I wish. It’s a headband.
Not good
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@sagewillis. because it's funny , I was laughing all day