Also the map lines up, and they also clearly state the castle was immediatly built on the site as to guard the place and seal the Demon King. And, if you follow the "Downfall Timeline + Four Swords Trilogy + Wild Duology all happen under a SS Timeline Split" timeline format, as I do, then the castle placement lines up ! There are only 3 castles : Breath of the Wild's, A Link to the Past's, and Minish Cap's. Well, if you rotate aLttP's map 45° clockwise, and MC's, 135° counter-clockwise, and center each on their respective castle and size them accordingly, then the locations match up !! And, according to that timeline format, they are the ONLY three castles affected ! OoT's, TP's, WW's, and ST's castles can be WHEREVER they want ! Yes, I did not mention FSA. Because fuck that game and its STUPID map.
@@moemuxhagibut theres not a ss timeline split at all. Nintendo confirmed where the split happens. Why do people go against the creator of the games😂😂😂
@@jordanleveritt7028 I'm against whatever bold new claim they say ever since they enforced that Link's Awakening happens *BEFORE* the Oracle games, and that Termina is a dream world *invented* by the Skull Kid. Besides, if Ocarina of Time gets to have 2 endings because you defeat Ganon in the future and go back to the present to have Ganondorf executed before he aquires the triforce of Power, then Skyward Sword *DEFINITELY* gets to have two endings since you crush the Imprisonned in the present with the power of the complete Triforce and 100,000 tons of stone, and go back to kill the Bringer of Demise in the past before he gets to send Ghirahim to send that tornado to kidnap Zelda in the present in the first place. And I swear to god if you so much as *MENTION* the word "Dragonbreak" in your list of possible alternatives, I will *shit on your grave.*
Honestly, of all the times for a giant structure to just…move, having the Zonai (you know, with ULTRAHAND, and AUTOBUILD) around could easily justify moving the OG goddess statue
I feel bad for whoever would have to lug that all the way to the forgotten temple, but I do find it funny that it would just be set down Willy nilly while the mover is camping for the night
@@lavaskiller8842 As far as we know Hylia is Zelda. With her becoming Zelda Hylia can basically be thought of as being dead. It's why in the later games in the series people more talk about the legends of the golden goddesses rather than Hylia.
Bro the orok forest moving is an established piece of lore in windwaker with one quest requiring you to go around and water the new deku trees as the old one dies
The Lava Falls in the Depths are linked to hotsprings above them on the surface, Hebra and Eldin are well known for their multiple hotsprings but there is a more hidden one near Mount Breman that's easily missed. It probably doesn't mean anything for map/theory crafting, just a nice detail that the hotsprings are hot due to volcanic activity below them.
Real life hot springs exist because of deep underground magma heating up the water table, so it makes sense. Actually should lava in the depths technically be considered magma?
So, some quick and major issues, some of which are general issues with theories since TotK but still need mentioning. First and foremost, the castle. As other comments have already pointed out, there is a tablet found in the castle saying that it was built over the sealed Ganondorf for further sealing shortly after Rauru did his thing. Wouldn't make sense for them to say that, then build several new castles over the years, then rebuild that castle, with no traces of any of the castles in between. Second, the Tears of Light room. While the Tears of Light specific things were likely made after all of those memories take place, the room itself was already there. It's in some of those memories. Its the room where Rauru gave the Secret Stones to the Sages, and I believe the map was already visible. It was likely a war room, with a large map to track army movements, that was converted into a map to guide Link to the Tears Of Light. Third... There is no sensible way for anything we see in TotK to take place during or between any of the past games. Even the stuff shown in the memories with Ganondorf and everything there. Despite his words, Rauru cannot be the true first king of Hyrule. Or, more accurately, he cannot be the first king of the first kingdom of Hyrule. To put it very simply and bluntly, the events with Ganondorf completely contradict what happens in OoT... which was Ganondorf's first appearance. According to ALttP, the Imprisoning War happened after Ganondorf Dragmire obtained the Triforce. The King ordered his Knights to fight Ganondorf while the Sages prepared a ritual to seal him within the Golden Land. In Encyclopedia Hyrule, while it does change some details, it is stated that this occurs at the start of the Downfall Timeline, when Link loses the fight to Ganon. That's when the events of the Imprisoning War occur, with it being implied that the Golden Land is another name for the Sacred Realm. ALttP's backstory about the Imprisoning War also mentions some of the leadup, which is when Ocarina of Time would take place, and while, again, some details are changed, it is confirmed in the books and doesn't change too much. And OoT clearly takes place well after the founding of the Kingdom. But TotK states Ganondorf appeared and pledged his loyalty during the founding era, ro the first king, with no mention of the Hyrulean Civil War that OoT states led to Ganondorf pledging his allegiance. It also has no mention of the Triforce, and has the Imprisoning War happens without Link first losing to Ganon. And even if you go to the original version of the Imprisoning War story, it doesn't have the Knights of Hyrule fending off Ganondorf while the Sages work on sealing him, it has the Sages fighting and losing to Ganondorf before the King seals him. There's a lot more to the issue, but all in all, TotK's memories cannot be within the timeline we know. Either the entire timeline needs to be reworked to fit it in, or it takes place separately. The most likely answer would be that it takes place long after the rest of the timeline, with Hyrule falling to time, long enough to be forgotten, with the Zonai coming from the sky and creating the Kingdom of Hyrule, unknowingly recreating a Kingdom lost to the ages instead of something entirely new. This is the only real way to explain the contradictions without either retconning contents of entire games or having it be an alternate timeline entirely. This would mean that it is not the same Ganondorf we know from past games, the one that was killed at the end of every other timeline, but instead he has had the same treatment Link and Zelda always get, a new incarnation of the hatred of Demise, a new Demon King, King of Thieves, a new being entirely, just with the same name and role. Fourth goes with that, but having such a large time gap could allow for a lot more terrain changes than you might think, which... well, it can both give you evidence and counter your evidence for the map placement. So... did TotK prove you wrong? Not necessarily, at least in terms of map placement. But in terms of the timeline aspect... kind of?
I also do not believe in a pre-Ocarina timeline placment. I just didn't want to lose the portion of my audience that does believe it, so I had to address it.
21:50 threre is a stone in the royal hidden passage that says that the castle was built on top of Ganondorfs corpse, that means the castle wasn't in the same spot as in botw before Ganondorf got sealed but was built there afterwards. Just wanted to clear that up, awsome video btw really appreciate all the effort you put in to this theory❤
Additionally, you actually can see a glimpse of what might be Rauru and Sonia's castle on the great plateau not far from their original Temple of Time placement, in the very first shot of memory 17, "The Dragon Tears" off to the left of the screen. This shot also has an amazing view of lakes and structures on the plateau that no longer exist. Other memories also seem to also suggest their castle is on the plateau. @@brosephlacasquevtuber
I have to say there is another option that takes in a concentration into account that no one has ever thought. Could the curse goes both ways? That’s right I am suggesting that tears of the kingdom past is after an evil villain wins and hyrule is no more after a long time a new hyrule is completely different
The Mother Goddess Statue as its' called is not in the same location in the past as it is in the present day. One of the cutscenes places Rauru and the sages in the exact location that the statue should be if it didn't move, but it's not there. And considering they have floating stones to move stuff, including the Temple of Time and other islands, moving a statue probably isn't too difficult.
For your issue with the Four Sword Sanctuary, the sages were not "unsealing a portal to the Four Sword Sanctuary in Hyrule Castle". They were creating a portal so that they could get to the Sanctuary quickly. You know, similar to how in BotW, we fast-travel around all the time to get places quickly.
Assuming that botw and totk take place after a timeline merge, the goddess sword could be from a different timeline than the one the main master sword is from. Idk that’s just me 😅
White sword of the sky feels canon the same way the champions’ weapons felt canon. If you have the materials and go to the right person, you can have that weapon again, the Goddess will bestow it as many times as you like as long as you have the claws required for one. Just a thought, but Cece reacting to each armor set also makes those feel canon even if it’s weird, but you have to talk to her to put your hood up or down so let’s not expect too much lmao.
I was always under the impression that since Hylia has long since reincarnated/passed her blood down through the Zeldas that the goddess statues are instead inhabited by lesser spirits or entities that bestow the blessings in her stead, like a ghost version of bishops or something.
@@IanChunck Fair enough, but I like to think that for all intents and purposes you are having a conversation with the Goddess even if not directly to her. The bargainers make your understanding much more palatable than what I thought, which was "goddess statue, must be the goddess talking," lol.
@@jesusramirezromo2037 A lot of people who should know Link do not know who Link is. This is seen all throughout totk and is consistently disappointing to me. In botw, you meet characters who will later forget you, and THAT is canon. Also, you didn’t really give any alternative to my comment, so I’m just going to agree with you and say not everything in game is canon. Thank you for being respectful about it tho
Only issue i have with that is; Kinda dulls the mystique of the Master Sword Why didn't Raru grab a god sword? Why aren't there more god swords around, you would think in a timeline where this keeps happening, people/the gods would catch on just how useful these are
It's also worth noting that just manually picking up a building and moving it somewhere else is something that is completely possible and well arrested in real life. I think of Khosrau who straight up build a 1-to-1 copy of the entire city of Antioch after he sacked the first one. Or all the various instances of this or that temple or palace being completely disassembled and rebuilt somewhere else.
Speaking of that, a point brought up in the previous video was there not being any sign of the bridge over Lake Hylia in TP. It's also a common thing for people to tear down disused structures and use them as raw materials for new projects.
your videos are insanely high-quality, dude. this is incredible, especially for your second video!! you're so respectful of other people's takes, go over facts, and give good reference to your speculation.
also wtf im already subscribed to you, but today was my first time watching this and the past video (and i haven't watched your newest videos yet). did you used to have more videos that you've since deleted/unlisted?
@@trayson No. Map Theory Part 1 is my first actual video, although I have also done some streaming before that. So IDK why you're subbed, but I appreciate that you are nonetheless!
The word for the Depths is Homogenous, not Generic. It’s more important that it contrasts the surface above it than have super distinct landmarks - it’s meant to be a grand labyrinth after all. EDIT: Since the Mother Goddess Statue’s quest involves setting it upright after it topples in the Upheaval, it’s safe to say that it can be moved and has been moved before, like as shown in Skyward Sword.
And also the horned statue in botw and totk moves so yes goddes statues can be moved by Hylia. (I think Hylia was the one to move the horned statue in totk but i really don't remember)
@@highdefinition450No I agree. The depths are homogeneous, not generic, since Hyrule itself looks very generic. But the depths are still one huge biome of nothingness.
You can't be a large, flat, single biome, and be called a labyrinth. I agree it's homogeneous, but it's very minimally designed since there's nearly nothing down there.
I like to imagine that the depths were where Demise and his army originated from, and that after the fall of Demise, the place was left uninhabited for the Zonai to later take over.
it hurts my head less to place the events at the end of the timeline. like at some point the kingdom fell, the zonai descended, and then rauru and sonia swooped in one day to re-establish it.
Honestly TOTK has pushed me in the direction of itself and BOTW being reboots in a completely new canon(considering how the past of TOTK is very similar to being a retelling of OOT)
@@whyisyes3957honestly it could be possible they’re wanting to rewrite the série Lore to rebuild it more coherently with future games, considering the quantity of lore we got in them. Because rn if you don’t know about the timeline etc it’s easy to assume each game « group » is his own interpretation of the same legend, over and over
@@n.o6889 Yeah, Nintendo might be just resetting things for the sake of making coherent lore instead of balancing three timelines, either through a timeline merge or a reboot
@@whyisyes3957 that just some over the head thoughts tbh, knowing Nintendo it’s not likely. They’re ain’t fixing the Pokémon situation wich have some actual consequences, I doubt they’re cleaning up Zelda Lore for the sake of it
Quick note that is ultimately of little to no consequence - you said that the Sealed Grounds temple and the Goddess Statue could've both been moved, brick by brick, to their location in BotW/TotK. I would like to posit an alternate theory, at least for the building. It could've been recreated, and at some point down the line (or even before the recreation), the original destroyed. The Goddess Statue is POSSIBLY the original, considering the text describing it as the oldest. But it's also possible that it was made afterwards. Just because it's the OLDEST surviving statue, that doesn't automatically make it the First. It does exclude the one in the current Temple of Time from being the SS statue, though. Unless... the one in the Forgotten Temple is even older than the Skyloft statue. (Still the issue of scale though.) There is also some minor, subtle evidence of Goddess Statues moving or popping up out of nowhere, if we take their ties to the Depths statues & the Horned statue seriously. This would negate the need to explain why there are no remains of the original on the Great Plateau. But like I said, it doesn't ultimately change anything!
@@angelo8606 I mentioned that in my comment: As I said: "Still the issue of scale though" - 'scale', in this case, meaning the size of the statue in the Temple of Time.
25:52 Something about map orientation is that Ocarina of Times map align very well with Wind Waker map tilt by 45° if we allow: - Dragon Roost Mountain = Death Mountain - Forest Haven = Deku Tree - Greatfish Isle = Fishing pond (well the owner tells us he fished him there once). - Windfall Island = Castle Town (and not Kakariko Village). Even the Private Oasis align with Kokiri Forest, the original house in Ocarina of Time. But it put the Tower of the Gods in the middle of nowhere.
I've been saving Hyrule since the OG gold cart LoZ #1. And if there's been one thing that has puzzled and confused me, it has been how Hyrule seems to just have a mind of it's own when it comes to geography. As I grew older, and learned more about game development, I chalked it up to just how the sausage is made, and the kinds of decisions that you have to make when you're putting together a game with a huge kingdom. Your two videos on this topic are perfect. Finally, at 40 years of age and playing these things since the beginning, finally the world of Hyrule makes sense to me. You did the research, and the work, and solved a riddle that I didn't even think could be solved. So I just wanted to say "Thank you" for all your effort, and tell you that your channel is awesome.
About Lon Lon Ranch, we see in Age of Calamity that the ranch is still standing in use before the calamity. The ruins in BotW are then just 100 years old like everything else. Whether or not that ranch was the same as the one in OoT but just mantained and rebuilt over time is technically still on the table.
Quite late to the party here but at 14:07, the quote saying the forgotten temple was built to honour the past heroes of hyrule, implies it couldn't be the sealed temple, as that was built before SS link, the first hero.
There's actually a second giant Hylia statue in Skyward Sword in the Isle of Songs in the Thunderhead. The Thunderhead is in the northwestern sky, above where Hebra and Tanagar Canyon would be. It's my belief that that statue also descended to the ground and later became the Forgotten Temple.
I'd also like to note, on the different castles thing.... it's entirely possible Akkala Citadel is the site of Lesser Hyrule's castle. Implying the Four Sword shrine may be underneath it somewhere.
You showed Cave Story when talking about other things you wanna do on UA-cam at the end and I cannot emphasize enough how fuckin’ hype I would be to see more Cave Story content online in this day and age. That Triforce Heroes idea sounds cool too, that game deserves more attention
Glad to see someone excited for Cave Story! I don't have a theory in the pipeline tho. More of an analysis. But still it's something I don't see nearly enough people talk about and think more people should talk about, and so I'm going to talk about it. That's the whole idea of the channel honestly. I just want to discuss the things that bothered/interested me that haven't been covered elsewhere in a way I'm satisfied with. Hence the map theory, and TFH theory, and Cave Story.
I don't even worry about the maps. Like you said, it's hard or impossible to tell the difference between a cute reference or something that's canonically consistent. There's also no clear indicator of the amount of time between many of the games. And finally, and most importantly, all of the games rightly prioritize having a good single game experience above adherence to the broader lore.
As you said in the video, the Forgotten Temple was built to commemorate the heroes, however, we're talking of the heroes who fought Calamity Ganon. There are no heroes who fought Calamity Ganon between SS and OOT. The Forgotten Temple is going to be built after few Calamity Ganon. So it was built between the last game of one of the timelines and the era depicted on the Sheikah Tapestry (with the ancient hero). We know the Sealed Temple is in the woods, near Faron Woods. However, the Temple of Time in OOT is in Castle Town, the woods are south to this plain. It's kinda weird for this Temple of Time to be the ancient Sealed Temple. However, we know about a Temple of Time, that lies deep in the lost woods, near Faron Woods: The Temple of Time from Twilight Princess. I think this could be the place where the Sealed Temple was. They built this Temple of Time in the woods. Twilight Princess tells us that the Ooccas lived on earth before the Hylians. In this Temple of Time we found the Dominion Rod and lot of mechanism that need the Dominion Rod. The Oocca gave this rod to the Royal Family when they were still there. Then they ascended in the Sky with their floating city. Then they would have built a new Temple of Time, in town, to keep the legendary sword and Triforce close to the castle. The temple of Time in the woods would be abandoned and end up in ruins. Until the day a child returns from the future and splits the Triforce without even removing the master sword. The seal breaks, and the Triforce splits, so there's no longer any need for a seal, as the Sacred realm is empty. After OOT, in the child timeline, the Temple of Time has become useless, and they would have put the master sword back in the old Temple of time, in the woods.
So i came to both rewatch this and also bring something up. There is a lot which comes before when King Rauru was alive. Especially since there's some evidence of such a thing is there. Granted some is implied, but hey that's how things can be. The Depths: Back in Wind Waker, there was a quest/mission to water some withered trees which the Koroks had planted on different islands. And its stated that those trees will cause their islands to expand and eventually become one landmass. So it's implied that the depths used to be the Flooded Hyrule from WW due to the gigantic roots which are there. Plus it would mean that the Ghostly Soldiers who has the pristine weapons which Link can used are the spirits of the Soldiers who died prior to the Great Sea being created. Zora and Rito: Personally I believe that the idea of the timelines converging is why the two races are able to co-exist. And possible that the amount of time between the timelines converging and when the Ancient Sages who helped Rauru were alive is so great that both the Zora and Rito just assume to have been both around in the beginning. Sonia: Okay, so Sonia having the Blood of the Goddess makes sense with her connection to Zelda. But the fact that she wasn't royalty prior to marrying Rauru makes me thing that Hyrule had merely became a legend by the time she was born. After all, the kingdom could have fallen and been rebuilt countless times. So its possible she had convinced Rauru to name their Kingdom after the one from Legend. And it does mean that they can still be the first rulers of Hyrule.
I completely understand why you feel grateful but also worried about one video blowing up. The same thing happened to me, and I'm like: "No, that was just a fun side thing!" and now it's what you're known for. Anyways, great video!
It is very common and just something that should be expected. Low effort art is easier to appreciate than high effort art, generally does not require as much attention for the audience to understand and is often just less of a time investment.
I'm looking forward to the promising future of this channel, your editing is great and the video's writing and voiceover is awesome! I'll be back to see the next video you make!
Similar to how Miphas statue get moved, I'm willing to accept buildings/ structures may get built in new locations to rebuild temples that have fallen due to evil, natural disasters, or just wear and tear that doesn't get maintained due to the kingdom facing financial trouble and unable to collect enough taxes to do so. I think the landmarks like mountains and peaks are more important. As far as the sky islands, they float. If they float, I don't see why they can't also drift. At least drift in time I think you did an amazing job.
My theory for the merged timeline: All events occur, being the first ones the events from AlttP's Triforce War, then the child timeline, the oracles, ALBW and TH and the adult timeline. After that, people moved to New Hyrule and when they came back, they found Lesser Hyrule, leading to Z1 and Z2. When Rauru appeared, people were rediscovering Hyrule, and he became the refounder of Hyrule. He just didn't know about its past.
Yeah; my theory, based on pieces from several others I’ve seen, is similar: (1) the three branches of the old timeline acted as time paradox known to Elder Scrolls fans as a “Dragon Break”-A period where the timeline fragments based on the choices of the protagonist, and all those options happen in separate timelines, but then they remerge later, leaving confused stories of what “really” happened during that period, all of which are partially true. (2) Rauru and the Zonai came to Hyrule in a Dark Age after the closing of that dragon break, when Hylian civilization had been reduced to tribalism and little of their previous history outside of stories remained. Rauru assumed this was the first Kingdom to be established in Hyrule given the backwardness of the society, but was wrong, so it was a refounding.
Yeah, about 4SA's castle: I think the map makes the most sense if you consider the Castle to be TP's Greater Hyrule and the Ice area and temple to be the Great Plateau/Old Hyrule placement That way the Four Sword doesn't move between Minish Cap, 4S and 4SA and the castle is in it's most logical placement And it works with the desert to the west and forest to the east. And while the great plateau area isn't super snowy or anything, it does have it's more cold mountainous sections Overall: Huge props on both of these videos. A friend of mine recently got into Zelda due to TotK and has been asking me lots of lore questions which had me deep diving stuff like geography eventually to figure out stuff like the MS pedastals, castles and ToT placements So thanks for making these and putting so much thought and effort into them. There's so many ideas you explained way better than I could, and others I never considered! (As for me, I think TotK's tears make the most sense as a "New Hyrule" founded after the other games on the timeline. Fewest contradictions with previous lore by my estimate. And not the first time we've had new Hyrule Kingdoms)
As for the Great Sky Island, I think it used to be where Lake Hylia is now, and the crater it left behind filled in with water over time after it was sent to the sky. Looking at the background of the draconification cutscene, it looks like the Great Sky Island was rotated 180 degrees when it was on land, and its icy mountains used to line up with the Great Plateau's. I also really like your background-castle idea! Then again, I subscribe to the Ancient Past being before, not after, Skyward Sword, mostly as an Occam's razor situation. Great video, thanks for putting so much thought into a series that's so much fun to speculate about.
Curious how your map theory would change if you instead used LoruleanHistorian's timeline, where Minish Cap splits off into the downfall timeline instead of Ocarina of Time, and the two Four Swords games take place before A Link to the Past. Really awesome video by the way!
I believe I've seen that video. And that would remove some of the weird back-and-forth migration shenanigans by grouping all the Lesser Hyrule games together so I'd say the two theories compliment each other pretty well.
The hilarious thing to me about the lava under Hebra is it makes the latest headaches in Echoes much easier. It's crazy to think that the mountains to the north west and south west switched which was frozen or volcanic, but it's totally possible! How long was Vesuvius inactive for? As for the name being switched, hell if I know. At least Death Mountain being dormant throughout the Downfall Timeline now works as a valid reason for the Gorons to have migrated now that we know they're currently living in a different active volcano.
Step 1, put the work in to make a moderately decent video, more for your own interest than for any aspirations of actually being a successful UA-camr. Step 2, have the UA-cam algorithm randomly take you by surprise and signal-boost the ever-loving crap out of that video because that was totally something I did on purpose and totally wasn't the pure, dumb, luck of being in the right place at the right time. Step 3, ... I- I don't know. Profit?... I guess? What do I do with this information? This has to be a lightning-in-a-bottle type thing, right?
@@brosephlacasquevtuber Lol yeah that sounds about right. I only make content on my other channel, and I've had two whole videos break a thousand views out of the almost 200 videos I've made. Basically what I'm saying is you're doing incredible, and your video quality is through the roof. I'm glad that the algorithm decided to recognize the amazing work you put into these videos, and I hope it continues to do so, because you freaking deserve it man
The only truly important thing I believe comes from adventures, is that there is, or at least can be, more than one Ganondorf (not active at the same time)
I actually did an attempted drawn overlay of skyward sword with breath of the wild and with the additional thought of someone else’s theory I’ve actually gotten the idea that the earth spring was not in akkala but rather just Eldin somewhere until it was ultimately buried by volcanic rock or destroyed which would mean that at some point there was originally four secret Springs and it’s possible that the promenade was there pre-skyward sword era and based on my hand drawn map of skyward sword overlaid with breath of the wild i sort of have both Faron lanayru wrapping around Eldin so technically to some degree they can maybe still have the same placement but with the locations of certain areas different and I put the entire placement of Faron woods in akkala which would mean the placement of lake Floria being placed roughly around the same area as Lake Alcala along with the great tree being placed roughly around the same area as the island that Terry town is built on which would have meant that the lake expanded and lost the two trees that were once in it overtime if the volcanic rock within certain areas of the lake was weak enough from water erosion to be very efficient until its current state in breath of the wild and pre-tears of the Kingdom
The one big thing that helped me make sense of all this was the fact that you know, the Downfall Timeline was its own separate universe. So, it's own parallel counterparts to Skyward Sword, Minish Cap, FSA, and OoT where that universe's version of Link as the Hero of Time was murdered, helped this out a lot. The next thing that helped me was subscribing to the notion that in theoretical physics, universes can bump into each other, triggering another universe to be born. It's a different take on the placement of BotW and TotK which is similar to the Refounding Post-Timeline Hypothesis, but also different enough to make its own theory and it helps your map theory make more sense. Imagine if the Downfall/Decline universe bumped into the Adult and Child Universes split from their original, that could spawn the universe that led to the events leading to BotW and TotK, the only issue with it is how many centuries or millennia would of a temporal gap between those events would that be? It's open-ended in that regard.
The Mother Goddess statue could be the Goddess statue from the Isle of Songs in Skyward Sword's Thunderhead. Evidence: 1. Location lines up waaaaaay better than Skyloft statue does 2. The size of the Mother Goddess statue not quite matching up to the Sealed Temple/Skyloft statue (although the Isle of Songs one doesn't match too well either...) 3. The Skyloft statue has an alcove on it's raised platform for the little loftwing statue to stand for the competition/ ritual. Mother Goddess statue doesn't have this 4. The Isle of Songs statue is the only one that ever speaks to the player in Skyward Sword (although to be fair, many goddess statues speak to us in Totk, so eh 🫲😕🫱) 5. The Isle of Songs statue teaches us the Song of the Hero! Meaning it has a connection to the intention of the Forgotten Temple's construction in honor of past hero/heroes. 6. There is no place on the Mother Goddess statue for an opening to the original space that held the Goddess Sword in Skyward Sword. (This point is admittedly weak, considering the construction involved in making the temple around it, and also the Mother Goddess statue straight up gives us the Goddess Sword lol)
its such a cool idea and the fact that so much aligns is wild. youve also done a great job making your videos fun to watch and easy to understand. i really hope your channel takes off and you get the recognition you deserve
It's already taken off way more than I could have possibly hoped for TBH. I don't know what I'd do with myself if it got too much bigger. But I appreciate it!
Others have made some videos about this, but if you are unaware and I really feel like you should consider layering this map ontop of tears of the kingdom, Nintendo themselves drew an official amalgam map in the form of a puzzle which also acts as a way you can play the games without using the in game maps
@@Norcy.it’s found easily on google under “legend of Zelda map puzzle” Though it’s validity is questionable as the map itself is janky as all heck. For instance Stone tower temple is present on the map (when at minimum it should be just on the other side of the planet).
Very cool video! I will say, based on how various NPCs and such talk about the depths, the impression I got was that they're very mutable and change often, hence why they have so many parallels to the surface. For instance, every surface shrine has a depths lightroot, even before you make the shrine appear, every mountain on the surface is a chasm in the depths, every river is an impassable wall, every named forest/grove has an equivalent with a large tree stump, each location with hot springs has lava under it, each large goddess statue (including the one on the zonai temple of time, which has moved locations since its original placement on the great plateau) has an equivalent bargainer statue, each botw memorial zelda built has a platform with souls in the depths, and every town has an equivalent mine, including tarrey town which was just formed a couple years before totk. What does this all mean? I'm not sure, but it definitely makes me feel like the geography of the depths isn't necissarily accurate to anything in the ancient past, given how it seems like it can change even with modern changes on the surface (forests, memorials, and tarry town)
These map videos are awesome and I can't wait for the next part that covers EoW! These videos have inspired me to make my own map theory in the meantime. Still a work in progress but so far I have 5 locations for places Hyrule might've been in the past which I feel fairly confident in. 1. North of The Great Plateau (Post-SS through the Era of Chaos) Reasoning: It's around the birthplace of Hyrule. Placed further north to be consistent with where I think OoT is (I'm still figuring this part out) 2. Trilby Valley (Minish Cap - Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures, A Link to the Past - Golden Era, Echoes of Wisdom) Moved to here after the Era of Chaos to protect the Triforce and Master Sword. Moved to here after Twilight Princess to protect the Triforce and Master Sword again. Moved to here after OoT in Downfall Timeline because OoT Hyrule was in shambles. Moved to here after Adventure of Link because Hyrule was growing again. Reasoning: MC map lines up almost perfectly. Squash a little bit and substitute Tabahl Woods for Minish Woods. FS and FSA make sense from there. ALttP is here because FSA has some of the same structures from ALttP. Also plausible because of Zora (albiet River Zora) living in a part of Hebra Mountain (Would be Lanayru Great Spring in TotK) in ALBW. I also believe ALttP is there because I believe EoW is there as well, and those two maps are connected. The mountain placement works out nicely and is somewhat consistent with MC. The only real outlier is the desert, but I'm willing to sacrifice part of the Lanayru Wetlands and say it turned into the Desert of Mystery/New Gerudo Desert while part of it remained as the swamp that's right next to the desert. 3. Middle Left of Hyrule Field, somewhere around Windvane Meadow (Ocarina of Time - Majora's Mask, Triforce Heroes) Moved to here after Four Swords to be closer to the Triforce and Master Sword. Possibly also for personal satisfaction and not understanding why they left in the first place. This is more of a bonus thing but I also think this is around the area Hytopia was in. Reasoning: Lake Hylia and entrace to Gerudo Desert are further to the south. Makes more sense in terms of scaling Imo. Also, this places the Forest of Time as Kokiri Forest. (Still figuring this out, yeah) As for why I think Hytopia is here: Desert to the bottom left, forest/plains directly south, water area to the bottom right, volcano to the top left (Hebra active at this time?), and snowy mountain to the top right (Eldin is still active for Hyrule right now. It's a stretch, but the snowy mountain could be Crenel?). It could be another continent too, but hey, it's not *confirmed* to be another continent like some other kingdoms in the series, at least I think. 4. North of Hyrule Field (Twilight Princess, Breath of the Wild - Tears of the Kingdom) Moved to here after OoT in Child Timeline because Hyrule was growing and could move to a better capitol. Moved to here pre-BotW because Ganondorf III's body was sealed underneath. Reasoning: Same reasons as you already gave lol. 5. Above the Deep Akkala region (Decline Era - Adventure of Link) Moved to here because Hyrule receded. Reasoning: Hyrule is mostly *north* of Death Mountain which I'm thinking means Eldin in this case. Hyrule is also all coastal. Also I like the Maze Island placement for this.
For the majora's mask in the depth, i have a theory, The Zonai are the Majora's civilisation. I see their history like that. The zonai a folk who don't live in hyrule. very powerful, they have made few contact only with the land through history. The most ancient one is before Skyward sword, where they start to harvest the chrono stones of the lanelle region with their golems (maybe the stones are related to Somnium). With their incrideble technology, the zonai devellop the occult stone for their great figure, who can amplify the inner power of the people using them. Zonai have been seen using mask, Mineru having one and the united folk of hyrule being giving one to the ancient sage, so we can think it's a cultutal element for that folk. During their history, the zonai made one powerful mask with the occult stone : The majora's mask. Who was used for sacrifice as say in the game of the same name. That mask was fed to dark thought and his occult resonance corrupt it to the core, making him a living and independant occult stone who refinforce darkness and inner power to the point to create alternate dimension and nightmare like termina. The zonai folk die slowly, and when only rauru and mineru remains, they came to the ground where their ancestor found the chronostones. They discorver a fallen kingdom, with a legend of seven sage protecting the balance of the realm. Rauru deceide the rebuild the kingdom by giving him the power of the zonai, and using the mythology of the land to unite the different folk, naiming sages and taking the name of one legendary light sage from the past. For that, he search the last chronostone of hyrule, and discover the depth, with their somnium. Some of the ancient treasure and arterfact of the lost ages were lost or sealed in the depht, like the cursed mask of majora... Then ganondorf resurect, and his kingdom fell. So this is my vision of the zonai history, what do you think of it ?
The canon is that Fierce deity was Link of Termina and he put the Dragon Majora to sleep by playing music and while Majora was asleep he killed it and fashioned the Majora’s mask from its Hide
@@blueblase9981 That's the manga canon, but in the last video if i remeber correctly, we see it was written in hyrule historia that termina was made by incarnating the distorted vision of the world of skull kid by the power of the mask. So, canon contradiction, i prefer to refer to hyrule historia :)
This is the best video on Hyrule's maps I ever found. I would love to state if you just stretch some of the pictures, (Skyward Sword's Faron for example) because in the game you don't actually explore the whole woods, just the important bits. That and due to game graphics, some areas are shown bigger or smaller than they are actually. All and All though, Best video to date I've seen, keep up the work bro.
I'm VERY glad you liked it! Especially since the main reason I made these videos is because I couldn't find anything else that really satisfied me on this topic. So I'm glad it's scratching that exact itch for others. Comments like these make my day.
My timeline placement of Totk and Botw is pretry easy to explain and help with some weird story issues The wild era games story take place at the end of the timeline. The Hyrule kingdom(s?) of all the previous games collapsed at some point after the timeline and Hyrule become a more savage land(that's explain the Hyrule armor style during Rauru reigns). Then, the Zonai come down from the sky and Rauru decide to create a new Hyrule kingdom. This help to fix any contradiction with past games, every part of the past in TotK happens at the birth of a new Hyrule kindgom long after the collapse of any other kingdom
On the movement of the castle; similar to my comment on Historical "Traveling locations", that's ALSO another known phenomena. They're two different castles, for example let's say that the city of Carteneau lies founded on a river, with castle Montegeau at it's head. However torrential downpour and or glacial drift has rendered the city to constantly flood, so... they move the city of Carteneau away from the river. Perhaps to a place of worship, or a valuable trade interfare that's popped up in that time. They build a new castle in the new location of Carteneau, and dub it; "Castle Montegeau" as the people who LIVED in the old castle NOW live in this one, and the old one is either left in disrepair, or given to a snooty lord to placate his father or something. Later, the constant flooding stops, and the new city of Carteneau (not to be mistaken with a city of New Carteneau) subsumes it's old resting place, and potentially the lordship returns to this old castle, rendering it, YET AGAIN the "Castle Montegeau". Thusly; there are TWO LOCATIONS for the Castle Montegeau! and if we follow the "castle given to a lord" storyline, at one point there were LITERALLY TWO CASTLE MONTEGEAU.
My interpretation of most of the throwback treasure is that they are replicas rather than the originals. This would give more credibility to oddities like Majora's mask not possessing the wearer. With the goddess sword I kinda just assumed that goddess swords could be made quite quickly and easily by goddess statues. This would explain how you can get a second goddess sword after breaking it by offering dragon claws to the springs of courage, power and wisdom and returning to the original statue. The thing that made the goddess sword in skyward sword special could have been that it had Fi inside it. None of what I just said has more than 10 minutes of research put into it but I still wanted to share.
The fierce diety set seems to contradict this theory because "wearing it provides godlike power" in addition to the other x of legend text, whereas the only other attack up armor says it "bolsters your fighting spirit and raises your strength".
Lon Lon Ranch or it's layout, outliving many ancient structures/temples makes sense. Most dungeons/temple will eventually fall to disrepair or be destroyed and never rebuilt since almost nobody visits many of them or would not have the means to repair them. Ranches, farms, typically will always see use.
Except for in the timeline where everything gets washed away by a flood. Or in the timeline where neither the farming village of Ordon, nor the Lon Lon Ranch of Four Sword Adventures maintains the OoT Layout. Or in the timeline where the descendants of Talon and Malon who share their names moved their operation outside of Hyrule to Holodrum.
Another great video! Only thing I will say is it is possible for the Lon Lon Ranch looking ruins to be Lon Lon Ranch because it would only have to be around for 100 years, not 10,000. Remember that in BoTW the calamity started 100 years before link awakens from the shrine of resurrection, meaning that many of wooden ruins around the map would likely have been created by the initial guardian destruction. This is further supported by how the only surviving settlements all lie away from great hyrule field (which would have been hit the hardest due to lack of natural barriers and being closest to the epicenter of the calamity), with the closest one being Kakariko I believe. Anyways, I really enjoyed watching and can’t wait to see more!
Honestly, I find it hard to believe that the goddess statue in the forbidden temple is even the same statue from Skyward Sword. After all, it’s been several thousands years (what like 20,000 or so? Time in Zelda is weird…) A statue wouldn’t survive that long even under the best of circumstances. Especially one that was very much outside in the elements like the original goddess statue was.
Around the 16 minute mark, you are talking about the chosen hero, and you mentioned this in the last video, as well. I know one argument, not that I am putting weight to it, but would love to see a game showing it, where a hero we have not seen, used the sword and parked it somewhere else. Oh, and what if the forest grows up around the sword that seals the darkness any time a structure that people build crumbles.
The reason I think the Sword moves to the forest in LttP is because Link dies using it in the Downfall Timeline, leaving it for Zelda or somebody to move into the forest meadow. Similarly, it's under Hyrule Castle in Wind Waker because Link left it behind when he was sent back in time, and that lets the sages move it to where they need it. As for why it's in the woods in BotW, that depends on the timeline you believe its in. But also 10,000 years is a long time, so who knows what the first calamity's hero did with it...
I'm starting to think that the Master Sword's resting place gets moved periodically (probably by the heroes after their quests are done and with help/orders from the Hylian royal family) and that once the sword is set back in its resting places, it causes a Lost Woods type forest to start growing around it as a means of obscurement and security.
About the Castle, Rauru's castle is on the Great Plateau, you can see it in the memory where Zelda transforms. The modern castle is built after the memories over the body of TotKdorf to plug up that part of the depths. The architecture could have been built over or changed over time as it's simply meant to prevent people from getting to Ganondorf. Keep in mind likewise that the the sealing chamber of Ganondorf is 1300 meters under ground, that's like 10 Hyrule castles. No amount of damage done to the castle in the timeline proper could have reached that not even the Adult timeline portion of it being destroyed. Architecture also isn't important to landmarks that would have been in active use and likely remodeled over the course of the series, so it's entirely possible it's remained the same castle throughout.
things I’ve noticed: 1. When the BotW/TotK castle got damaged in the calamity Ganon started awakening so that castle must have stayed mostly intact from its beginning to its end 2. The castle of twilight princess presumably exploded 3. One male Gerudo is born every 100 years as long as the previous one is dead 4. There hasn’t been one for at least the past 10,000 years Conclusions: It definitely has to take place after everything else or in a branching timeline or else Ganondorf would have awoken when a Ganondorf that shouldn’t have existed destroyed the Castle
Here is what I have to say regarding the new geographical data TOTK brought us in relation to your theory: 1) King Rauru's map and the founding of Hyrule (I'm going to assume Nintendo's original intent with TOTK was to place TOTK at the end and somewhere in the beginning of the timeline post Skyward sword as this seems most likely to me) We, the player, have one thing that every NPC doesn't throughout the entire franchise and that is the ability to look into Hyrule as it is, was, and will be. History and the knowledge thereof changes as facts and stories become muddled over time, so even if "the birthplace" of Hyrule quote from King Rhoam was inconsistent its possible (and likely) that NPCs get their history wrong now and again - just like we do to this day. All this does is allow us to question what is said vs what is observed which is actually helpful (and common sense too, but please don't take that as an insult lol). King Rauru very well probably did found Hyrule. Consider the following points: A) at the end of Skyward Link and Zelda don't say anything about founding a kingdom - just living on the surface and watching out after the triforce. Thye obviously did a good job as in all of TOTK we see only artwork of it in early Hyrule, so knowledge of the triforce was still present, but it likely was only known by the royal family and held it as a secret, with Rauru and the tears being more widely known (and might as well be as creatures descending form the sky would definitely capture the attention of everybody, same as today) B) When the Zonai descended, they were only around for about one or two generations (there was only one Zonai king, being the earliest so it isn't farfetched to suggest knowledge of the Zonai faded). In other words, it can be assumed that people forgot about the Zonai and thus the "birthplace" quote can still make sense within the context that knowledge of early Hyrule isn't exactly complete. To add on to this, people forget that in BOTW they literally rediscovered the guardians - something that were built 10,000 years before BOTW, which strengthens the argument that knowledge of things earlier than that would be lost or at best incomplete. It also means that references to other games, like the skyward sword sanctuaries may have been rebuilt or buildings having some renovations to add in the statues as sacred things (like the temple of time in BOTW). Locations don't have to match exactly when we acknowledge that some statues and sanctuary sites are new / recreations (they could also be considered just easter eggs / call backs to the original game, like with the skyward sword, but these locations have an in-game explanation which we will use). Also, the sanctuary sites could have been renamed, and bodies of water, small and big DO change, whether minor or major they do shift in shape and location, so for the sanctuary of wisdom, power, etc. They could be the same sites just renamed hence for the "inconsistency." C) Zelda and Queen Sonia. Just a brief aside, Sonia never specified what type of blood bond they had (like a great great great great.......grandmother). Its more likely that Skyward Sword Link and Zelda had more than one kid, making Queen Sonia more of an aunt than a mother. When queen Sonia and Rauru were no longer Hyrule's rulers its likely close relatives on Sonia's side took their place seeing as how royal families are even in our world. 2) The forgotten temple, the Goddess statue, and the Master Sword's pedestal. A) The goddess statue(s) The Goddess statue in TOTK / BOTW is stated to be the oldest Goddess statue in Hyrule. That statement doesn't specify as to if it is the oldest ever or just the current oldest. Considering that the Zonai map is behind the Goddess statue, it seems this statue is not the same statue we see in skyward sword! This forgotten temple could have been a zonai structure repurposed for the worship of Goddess Hylia - or it could have been built during King Rauru's rule to hide the secret room. building statues of that size don't seem to be impossible for the Zonai. Another possibility is that the statue is built pre-Skyward Sword and the zonai used the structure during their rule, only for the area to become lost or "forgotten" after Zonai rule. Considering statues can degrade with time and the Forgotten Temple's association with early hyrule and Zonai means that the placement of the big Hylia statue in Skyward Sword does not contradict BOTW/TOTK. Even if we were to assume it was the same statue, nothing says they can't move a statue that big anyhow, but I think its more likely that its a different statue altogether given that the lore in game says its the oldest Hylia statue in Hyrule, not necessarily the first. B) Triforce As for the triforce - no game suggests that only one specific person can use the triforce, just that it depends on their heart. Since Zelda wanted to protect the triforce, its likely she moved it to another location than just build a building around a giant statue (which would definitely bring attention to visitors). Where did she hide it? - the sacred realm, as is stated in OOT. Nothing says that the sacred realm can only be entered through one location only, since Zelda / Hylia in SS is a god, her having access to the sacred realm in some way isn't unlikely by any means. Its also interesting to note that inBOTW we see Zelda use the triforce against ganon - the only time we see the actual triforce in BOTW, implying that the triforce remained in the sacred realm and can only be accessed if someone has access to this sacred realm (in)directly. Access could be granted through other, what I'm going to call, access points such as the Temple of time in OOT. This would also explain why TOTK Ganondorf is more fixated on the tears than the triforce as it is a physical item that he sees first around Sonia's neck (which would definitley stick out more than jewelry or tattoos, especially since he is after power not treasure). In short - the triforce can move but it was likely always in the sacred realm, spread out when someone enters the sacred realm, or deliberately separated like in SS or Zelda NES (split by Zelda herself, just FYI) to keep it from falling in the wrong hands. 3) Master Sword Now, we know the master sword can't be pulled from the pedestal - but nothing can prevent the pedestal from being moved. I know this seems like a technicality - but that's because it is, and I've no doubt that this loophole was sued to move the pedestal when needed. For example, the Great Deku tree was appointed to watch over the sword, hence the creation - or - creation of a new pedestal (in TP we see the master sword retired in the sacred grove, a forest area, forest areas migrate and i think the deku tree would've used his magic to take it with him). Of course there is nothing that specifies the Sword has to be in the same pedestal. Either way, we also have to consider the BOTW story where a hero faced calamity ganon 10k years before BOTW - we don't know about the sword's whereabouts between TP / Zelda 2 (which ever timeline you subscribe to, i think its the logical conclusion to all timelines) and the battle of calamity ganon 10k years before BOTW, its likely the pedestal before the deku tree could be a new pedestal (we don't see how link obtained the master sword before the calamity, just that he had it, its possible that the royal family could have had it and kept it in their possession). Overall, the pedestal locations can change in the franchise. This one does stump me a bit but I think the explanation of it being put by link or someone else into a different resting area after whatever untold adventure is likely (especially since we only know so much about the calamity battle 10k years pre BOTW, so thats where and when i'm going to say the most recent change in the sword's resting area took place). 4) Ganondorf. I agree that the sealing place of TOTK ganon was likely a different place rather than directly beneath the same castle. The placement on TOTK overworld map seems to suggest ganon is underground NEAR the castle, not in a dungeon directly beneath the whole building. That being said, if it IS the same castle then it being underneath the ground but merely connected to the castle wouldn't pose any problems to the castle itself being destroyed, but I still think what you say is more likely that this is a separate castle from OOT, likely the same one from TP. I do have to say that I don't think the castle is a seal, it seems the seal is and always was Rauru's arm, it being connected to the castle just allowed the broken/weakened seal to begin pouring out into Hyrule starting with the castle.
The castle Was built To protect The seal, As in-game Text says. But the Big spike Under the Castle, and Ganondorf pushing The big Spike away Implies he Is right Under the Castle.
Since you brought up the lack of volcanic activity under tingle islands - Depending on if the tingle islands are an island ridge (formed by volcanism) or columns off the coast of Hyrule (formed by erosion) changes how we'd explain the lack of volcanic activity. If the latter, you wouldn't expect volcanism underneath them. While heavily stylized, this would explain some of the other Lanayru coastline features assuming the same sort of rock. If the former, you wouldn't expect them to form that close to Hyrule's continental shelf, instead that they're old islands (so, as you said, the volcanic activity likely ended) on oceanic shelf currently being subsided underneath hyrule's continental shelf. Which, if low angle, and we assume the subsidence zone is pulling them in the direction of Zora's domain, might explain that mountain range, with no volcanic activity, away from the coastline. Highly stylized in either case, of course, and I don't actually think The Zelda team are engaging with tectonic simulations to figure out where to put mountain ranges because while some people enjoy doing world building via that process, and it often results in naturalistic results... ...It doesn't feel _likely_ to be something the Zelda team are doing, to me. Still, both would be explanations for why the tingle islands lack volcanic activity.
I know people have probably already said it, but I vaguely remember a sign inside of a little passage in to the kingdom. I’ll probably come back if I remember and put the coordinates that said. Something along the lines of “ The seal will stay intact as long as the castle is Intact” And it was like because of that reason that’s why the calamity happened under the castle, and the castle was kinda like the seal holding him like how the master sword was Gondorf seal into the legend of Zelda Wind Waker
I am in the "there is no timeline, most of these games aren't actually taking place in the same world, direct sequels aside" camp. it's very calming here. no trying to piece together world designs that make no sense, no trying to fit together multiple foundings of hyrule, just vibing. granted I understand the appeal of it all, I just think that the devs only really cared about the timeline from the development of OoT->Skyward Sword, and have since stopped bothering.
since back when the official timeline got revealed for the first time, my theory for why the master sword seemingly moved around was that it was because more games in the series would come out, and the link(s) in those games moved the sword from one place to another based on what would be going down in their games. i mean, presumably, there were many links who failed, even after finding the master sword, who failed and died in battle, hence the master sword not being returned to it's rightful spot, just like, again, presumably, there just as many links who have found the master sword and completed their quest, after which they returned the master sword to where they found it, not knowing it had a specific resting place. and just as many links found the master sword, completed their quest, and returned it to the temple of time. just what i've always thought was the reason for that, because they're never going to stop releasing zelda games, and sooner, more than likely, rather than later, they're going to add more new incarnations of link to the timeline. it does span (at least) 10,000 years. that's a lot of different possible incarnations of link right there.
here's a crazy thought that would explain why there is no official placement for botw and totk, and why weapons and armor from all 3 timelines appear in the 2 games. What i BoTW is the 3 time lines re-converging as time tries to heal and the combination of the 3 is what creates calamity ganon. TotK is representing the "time travel is a cycle" bit by showing how the sky islands in SS actually happened
I’m fully convinced that Breath Of The Wild and Tears Of The Kingdom exist in a completely alternate reality or dimension that doesn’t follow the Hyrule Historia timeline. A timeline that starts predating Skyward Sword events, and ends probably around Twilight Princess (where Breath Of The Wild starts). The inaccuracies of the map is 1 reason. Another reason is Rauru mentioned that he created Hyrule, and there isn’t even any presence of Zonai in any Zelda game until BOTW (unless you count Wind Waker’s Tower Of The Gods). If they existed in one of these timelines, there should be something in one of the games that shows that Zonai existed or made their presence known. My biggest reason, is the history of the Demon King and how the events of the Imprisoning War is the only information given below Hyrule Castle about Ganondorf, and nothing about how he previously came back in games like OoT and TP. You’d think that if this game existed in one of the timelines, they would at LEAST mention Ganondorf in Ocarina of time below Hyrule Castle. That’s not even it, Ganondorf with the Gerudo??? If this game exists after Ocarina of Time, wouldn’t you think the Gerudo would of learned their lesson many centuries ago to not trust a Voe named Ganondorf after what happened in Ocarina Of Time?!?! In reality, I think in this new timeline I speak of, elements of different timelines did exist (that’s why I previously said previously reality/dimension), but the way the story played out is not how we know. Like Ruto for example. We learned about Ruto in BOTW, but the story that was told doesn’t directly reflect what happened in Ocarina of Time. In fact, Ruto became a sage. Also the Ancient Robots in Skyward Sword, they don’t look like the Zonai Constructs and you’d think by their similarities that they’d at least look the same. I’m looking forward to see if there is a 3rd game that proves me right, because I really do think I’m right, and there isn’t any evidence that’s proved me wrong yet.
Excelent videos ! Both ! I wonder if you considered: 1. That "Creating a Campion" established that BOTW goes a long time after the other games in the timeline, which are considered "The Age of Myth". 2. The extinction-level events that killed the leviathans in the climate change
Something of note for four swords adventure, it actually looks like the ice area is that mountian which has the sheikah tower for the majority of the gerudo desert which isn't the gerudo highlands tower. Is also shares the same shape even.
I choose to believe that the Ranch Ruins are TECHNICALLY the ruins of Lon Lon Ranch from Ocarina of Time, just in a "Ship of Theseus" sort of way. Hear me out: It is technically possible that the family that owned the ranch maintained both ownership and general upkeep of that ranch all the way up until the Calamity. Sure, they'd have to replace the occasional log here and there, probably went through some other less obvious changes, etc. So the Lon Lon Ranch of OoT was still basically there and active after however many years and generations of being passed down through the family, just with a lot of upkeep and replacements along the way. And while that seems absolutely insane on the sort of timescale that we're used to in our world, remember that the world of Zelda seems to simultaneously move much faster physically (in terms of day/night cycles) and also much slower technologically (technically, since even Skyward Sword showed that the distant past had tech that the real world would call hyper advanced, and both BotW and TotK featured civilizations like the Shiekah and Zonai that were capable of things like the Divine Beasts and zonai machines, and yet the rest of the world consistently throughout the whole timeline has always been roughly medieval....), so the passage of time and the advancement of civilization have never really made sense in that case. If a single ranch wants to be passed down and preserved through hundreds or thousands of generations in the same spot, well that makes just as much sense the rest of this technologically stunted world.
And yet the layout of Lon Lon Ranch in Four Swords Adventure is completely different from that of OoT in the Child Timeline. And the farming town of Ordon doesn't seem to have preserved that ranch's layout either. The Downfall Timeline has multiple parallels to Malon and Talon, (the chicken farmers in Holodrum from Oracle of Seasons, Marin and Tarin in Link's Awakening, and the Milk Bar owner of Link Between Worlds) none of which own, operate, or acknowledge the existence of a Lon Lon Ranch. Nor do we get to see its architectural layout. And there's no way anything in Hyrule survived the ending of Wind Waker when the whole point was to wash away the past. Plus the ranchers from OoT didn't seem too concerned with preserving tradition seeing as how it's a completely different layout from the Lon Lon Ranch of Minish Cap. So to say their descendants kept up their farm's exact precise layout for well over 10 MILLENIA Yeah, I still don't see it.
Doesn’t get said often enough but: thanks for the spoiler warning with specific subjects that spared the details. I’ll be watching later but appreciate the heads up!
So, I do think all the old game armours and weapons *are* fully canon. They're relics and recreations discovered by the Zonai as they explored the Depths. I think the Depths are actually what remains of all of Mythical Hyrule, a mishmash of timelines and histories, all in the depths to reconcile the Adult Timeline with the others. The Depths are the result of The Great Sea and the Deku Tree's plan to grow new land overtop of it. When the timelines merged, all the living people are still "on the surface" as they always remembered, and all the relics of the mythological era that faded from memory were buried deep below the earth, until the Zonai uncovered it.
I think its a good thing they esentialy merge the timelines in the new totk masterworks that apeared yesterday in japan. Now we can rest easy knowing all the time line before oot architecture debate was stupid and this man knows whay he is talking about.
Very cool map theory vids, thanks for all the work! Earned a sub from me - even if you don't necessarily make more Zelda theory content in the future, the way you reason things and put them together give me enough evidence that other videos from you would be interesting regardless of topic. One way or another, as others said, I'd definitely be interested in a video of your take of where BOTW/TOTK fit in the timeline (even if you think it may be controversial)! And I just saw you went ahead and made that one Triforce Heroes video, going ahead to watch that next :) Cheers!
You don't have to move the sealed grounds to make the forgotten tempple align with them, because the forgotten temple could be a recreation of the temple of Hylia and the goddes statue could be moved by Hylia like the horned statue from botw to totk.
First, I LOVE your approach to solve things. It really seems like you are collecting facts first and then draw your conclusion based on the evidence, but also always aware of "waht we don't know". This is also a great difference compared to people who insist their premises are right while there are still alternative views out there, such as the timeline placement. second, I think the Timeline Placement for Past ToTK is during OOT after the king established Hyrule after the bypassly mentioned in a throwback narrative. However, Zelda's arrival causes changes: She observes the power of one of the Mystery Stones during Ganondorf's assaults, Ganondorf recognizes them, and goes after the mystery Stones instead of the Triforce. He still plays the trick; offers loyalty to the king, murders Sonia and eventually being sealed away while Zelda turns into a dragon. This causes a fourth timeline, eventually merging with all the other ones in Past-ToTK at a certain point, the point when Link and Zelda leave. This causes all the geoglyphs to spawn suddenly and is the reason why things outside the fourth timeline haven't been seen before, while now they merged together with the other three timelines we see in botw. This implies a few changes for OOT as well. For example, the king of Hyrule would have been Rauru all along, maybe the sage Rauru, the King (I don't remember we ever saw him) and the owl are one and the same. Like in Past-TotK, Rauru accepts the offer of Ganondorf, zelda remains sceptical, while Rauru thinks it is a good idea to keep an eye on Ganondorf. Just in the other three timelines, Rauru decides to actively teach a hero to defeat Ganondorf by assiting him, but never shows himself as the king, neither to Link nor his daughter. Ganondorf is only sealed under the castle in the fourth timeline, in the other oes, he either wins or gets sealed as seen in TP or OOT.
Correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't played TotK (or other Zelda games besides BotW for that matter) and the english translation is different from other ones, but the way I understood all that Calamity thing was that the reason Calamity Ganon existed in the first place was because Ganondorf was sealed away but technically still alive, thus unable to reincarnate. So, no Zelda game could've had happened between the foundation of Hyrule and Breath of the Wild, specially not ones with a Ganondorf in them... I'm confused and I don't know enough of this series to know what I'm missing.
That's also the way I understand it also, but I wanted to cover all bases so as to not lose people. because there are some whose theories allow for more than one Ganon at a time I guess.
I sub to the theory of the REfinding of hyrule after hyrule warriors (the first one) due to the fact it connects the 3 timelines together in one giant era and due to plate shifting of the planet it makes since why certain buildings are gone and rediscovered or straight up moved like the forests, lakes and rivers.
Well, the devs have said they rearrange the geography often just to keep things fresh. That's the main reason I don't really consider the geography of Hyrule much at all. Also, I heard recently that Fujibayashi (I think it was him specifically) used the art from an earlier "Map of Hyrule" poster as the basis for the new map in BotW. Also, for all intents and purposes, Fujibayashi confirmed in the latest Famitsu interview that Rauru's founding of Hyrule is a re-founding.
I like the idea that the spring/shrine mismatches were the result of the original shrines being destroyed, but then the culture re-discovering the "blueprints" and recreating them, but they did it slightly wrong. Something similar happened in the real world with the hebrew people, the first great temple that they built was destroyed, and for years it was more or less forgotten while they were in exile, and then someone basically just started reading the scriptures again and then requested to go back and rebuild it. But the version that was rebuilt wasn't exactly the same. (nor was it meant to be, they didn't have the same budget most likely while they were in exile)
![I Solved the Map of EVERY Zelda Game! [Legend of Zelda Theory]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zz3FbQJXIvk/mqdefault.jpg)
![I Solved the Map of EVERY Zelda Game! [Legend of Zelda Theory]](/img/tr.png)
![Analyzing ALL the Time Travel in Zelda [Legend of Zelda Theory]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/acv64b3p76w/mqdefault.jpg)
In the Hyrule castle secret passage there is a stone that confirms that the botw castle was built on top of Gannondorf
Also the map lines up, and they also clearly state the castle was immediatly built on the site as to guard the place and seal the Demon King.
And, if you follow the "Downfall Timeline + Four Swords Trilogy + Wild Duology all happen under a SS Timeline Split" timeline format, as I do, then the castle placement lines up ! There are only 3 castles : Breath of the Wild's, A Link to the Past's, and Minish Cap's. Well, if you rotate aLttP's map 45° clockwise, and MC's, 135° counter-clockwise, and center each on their respective castle and size them accordingly, then the locations match up !!
And, according to that timeline format, they are the ONLY three castles affected ! OoT's, TP's, WW's, and ST's castles can be WHEREVER they want !
Yes, I did not mention FSA. Because fuck that game and its STUPID map.
@@moemuxhagiFSA is just a leveled divided aLttP map though. The scrapped development roots as an alternative prequel to using OoT show up well in it.
@@amandaslough125 well yeah but why the fuck is there an ice region right where there was supposed to be a SWAMP
@@moemuxhagibut theres not a ss timeline split at all. Nintendo confirmed where the split happens. Why do people go against the creator of the games😂😂😂
@@jordanleveritt7028 I'm against whatever bold new claim they say ever since they enforced that Link's Awakening happens *BEFORE* the Oracle games, and that Termina is a dream world *invented* by the Skull Kid.
Besides, if Ocarina of Time gets to have 2 endings because you defeat Ganon in the future and go back to the present to have Ganondorf executed before he aquires the triforce of Power, then Skyward Sword *DEFINITELY* gets to have two endings since you crush the Imprisonned in the present with the power of the complete Triforce and 100,000 tons of stone, and go back to kill the Bringer of Demise in the past before he gets to send Ghirahim to send that tornado to kidnap Zelda in the present in the first place.
And I swear to god if you so much as *MENTION* the word "Dragonbreak" in your list of possible alternatives, I will *shit on your grave.*
Honestly, of all the times for a giant structure to just…move, having the Zonai (you know, with ULTRAHAND, and AUTOBUILD) around could easily justify moving the OG goddess statue
I feel bad for whoever would have to lug that all the way to the forgotten temple, but I do find it funny that it would just be set down Willy nilly while the mover is camping for the night
just wait for the next game
The OG goddes statue could be moved by Hylia I think (or by itself I don't remember) just like the horned statue from botw to totk.
Also, the main thing that statue is famous for is being levitated up into the sky and then dropped back down.
It was basically a prototype sky island.
@@lavaskiller8842 As far as we know Hylia is Zelda. With her becoming Zelda Hylia can basically be thought of as being dead. It's why in the later games in the series people more talk about the legends of the golden goddesses rather than Hylia.
Bro the orok forest moving is an established piece of lore in windwaker with one quest requiring you to go around and water the new deku trees as the old one dies
korok oops
The Lava Falls in the Depths are linked to hotsprings above them on the surface, Hebra and Eldin are well known for their multiple hotsprings but there is a more hidden one near Mount Breman that's easily missed. It probably doesn't mean anything for map/theory crafting, just a nice detail that the hotsprings are hot due to volcanic activity below them.
Real life hot springs exist because of deep underground magma heating up the water table, so it makes sense. Actually should lava in the depths technically be considered magma?
Neat! This game is awesome!
Isn't that just how hotsprings work?
So, some quick and major issues, some of which are general issues with theories since TotK but still need mentioning.
First and foremost, the castle. As other comments have already pointed out, there is a tablet found in the castle saying that it was built over the sealed Ganondorf for further sealing shortly after Rauru did his thing. Wouldn't make sense for them to say that, then build several new castles over the years, then rebuild that castle, with no traces of any of the castles in between.
Second, the Tears of Light room. While the Tears of Light specific things were likely made after all of those memories take place, the room itself was already there. It's in some of those memories. Its the room where Rauru gave the Secret Stones to the Sages, and I believe the map was already visible. It was likely a war room, with a large map to track army movements, that was converted into a map to guide Link to the Tears Of Light.
Third... There is no sensible way for anything we see in TotK to take place during or between any of the past games. Even the stuff shown in the memories with Ganondorf and everything there. Despite his words, Rauru cannot be the true first king of Hyrule. Or, more accurately, he cannot be the first king of the first kingdom of Hyrule. To put it very simply and bluntly, the events with Ganondorf completely contradict what happens in OoT... which was Ganondorf's first appearance. According to ALttP, the Imprisoning War happened after Ganondorf Dragmire obtained the Triforce. The King ordered his Knights to fight Ganondorf while the Sages prepared a ritual to seal him within the Golden Land. In Encyclopedia Hyrule, while it does change some details, it is stated that this occurs at the start of the Downfall Timeline, when Link loses the fight to Ganon. That's when the events of the Imprisoning War occur, with it being implied that the Golden Land is another name for the Sacred Realm. ALttP's backstory about the Imprisoning War also mentions some of the leadup, which is when Ocarina of Time would take place, and while, again, some details are changed, it is confirmed in the books and doesn't change too much. And OoT clearly takes place well after the founding of the Kingdom. But TotK states Ganondorf appeared and pledged his loyalty during the founding era, ro the first king, with no mention of the Hyrulean Civil War that OoT states led to Ganondorf pledging his allegiance. It also has no mention of the Triforce, and has the Imprisoning War happens without Link first losing to Ganon. And even if you go to the original version of the Imprisoning War story, it doesn't have the Knights of Hyrule fending off Ganondorf while the Sages work on sealing him, it has the Sages fighting and losing to Ganondorf before the King seals him. There's a lot more to the issue, but all in all, TotK's memories cannot be within the timeline we know. Either the entire timeline needs to be reworked to fit it in, or it takes place separately. The most likely answer would be that it takes place long after the rest of the timeline, with Hyrule falling to time, long enough to be forgotten, with the Zonai coming from the sky and creating the Kingdom of Hyrule, unknowingly recreating a Kingdom lost to the ages instead of something entirely new. This is the only real way to explain the contradictions without either retconning contents of entire games or having it be an alternate timeline entirely. This would mean that it is not the same Ganondorf we know from past games, the one that was killed at the end of every other timeline, but instead he has had the same treatment Link and Zelda always get, a new incarnation of the hatred of Demise, a new Demon King, King of Thieves, a new being entirely, just with the same name and role.
Fourth goes with that, but having such a large time gap could allow for a lot more terrain changes than you might think, which... well, it can both give you evidence and counter your evidence for the map placement.
So... did TotK prove you wrong? Not necessarily, at least in terms of map placement. But in terms of the timeline aspect... kind of?
I also do not believe in a pre-Ocarina timeline placment. I just didn't want to lose the portion of my audience that does believe it, so I had to address it.
21:50 threre is a stone in the royal hidden passage that says that the castle was built on top of Ganondorfs corpse, that means the castle wasn't in the same spot as in botw before Ganondorf got sealed but was built there afterwards. Just wanted to clear that up, awsome video btw really appreciate all the effort you put in to this theory❤
Well that would have made my video easier and shorter, lol.
Additionally, you actually can see a glimpse of what might be Rauru and Sonia's castle on the great plateau not far from their original Temple of Time placement, in the very first shot of memory 17, "The Dragon Tears" off to the left of the screen. This shot also has an amazing view of lakes and structures on the plateau that no longer exist. Other memories also seem to also suggest their castle is on the plateau. @@brosephlacasquevtuber
I have to say there is another option that takes in a concentration into account that no one has ever thought.
Could the curse goes both ways? That’s right I am suggesting that tears of the kingdom past is after an evil villain wins and hyrule is no more after a long time a new hyrule is completely different
First video: calm and funny
Second video: UNHINGED AND HILARIOUS
The Mother Goddess Statue as its' called is not in the same location in the past as it is in the present day. One of the cutscenes places Rauru and the sages in the exact location that the statue should be if it didn't move, but it's not there. And considering they have floating stones to move stuff, including the Temple of Time and other islands, moving a statue probably isn't too difficult.
For your issue with the Four Sword Sanctuary, the sages were not "unsealing a portal to the Four Sword Sanctuary in Hyrule Castle". They were creating a portal so that they could get to the Sanctuary quickly. You know, similar to how in BotW, we fast-travel around all the time to get places quickly.
I took the Goddess Sword in TOTK as it just being a replica created by the goddess statues.
Every DLC items like that are replicas imo
@@angelo8606yeah especially since you know... Link kinda has what was originally the sword the statue is giving him
what else could it be? it can't be the actual goddess sword, since... well, that became the Master Sword. which kinda... exists in TotK.
Considering their descriptions say as much.@@angelo8606
Assuming that botw and totk take place after a timeline merge, the goddess sword could be from a different timeline than the one the main master sword is from. Idk that’s just me 😅
White sword of the sky feels canon the same way the champions’ weapons felt canon. If you have the materials and go to the right person, you can have that weapon again, the Goddess will bestow it as many times as you like as long as you have the claws required for one. Just a thought, but Cece reacting to each armor set also makes those feel canon even if it’s weird, but you have to talk to her to put your hood up or down so let’s not expect too much lmao.
I was always under the impression that since Hylia has long since reincarnated/passed her blood down through the Zeldas that the goddess statues are instead inhabited by lesser spirits or entities that bestow the blessings in her stead, like a ghost version of bishops or something.
@@IanChunck Fair enough, but I like to think that for all intents and purposes you are having a conversation with the Goddess even if not directly to her. The bargainers make your understanding much more palatable than what I thought, which was "goddess statue, must be the goddess talking," lol.
Not everything in game is cannon, Link canonically didn't meet hestu in BOTW, as he doesn't remembered Link
@@jesusramirezromo2037 A lot of people who should know Link do not know who Link is. This is seen all throughout totk and is consistently disappointing to me. In botw, you meet characters who will later forget you, and THAT is canon. Also, you didn’t really give any alternative to my comment, so I’m just going to agree with you and say not everything in game is canon. Thank you for being respectful about it tho
Only issue i have with that is;
Kinda dulls the mystique of the Master Sword
Why didn't Raru grab a god sword?
Why aren't there more god swords around, you would think in a timeline where this keeps happening, people/the gods would catch on just how useful these are
It's also worth noting that just manually picking up a building and moving it somewhere else is something that is completely possible and well arrested in real life.
I think of Khosrau who straight up build a 1-to-1 copy of the entire city of Antioch after he sacked the first one.
Or all the various instances of this or that temple or palace being completely disassembled and rebuilt somewhere else.
Speaking of that, a point brought up in the previous video was there not being any sign of the bridge over Lake Hylia in TP. It's also a common thing for people to tear down disused structures and use them as raw materials for new projects.
your videos are insanely high-quality, dude. this is incredible, especially for your second video!! you're so respectful of other people's takes, go over facts, and give good reference to your speculation.
Thank you very much! I'm just glad I made something you can enjoy.
Facts🔥🔥🔥so hyped to see what else you put out!!
exactly! Just in this video that I realized that the other one was his first video ever, the quality is too good that it didn't even crossed my mind
to your point about the "lon lon ranch ruins", THANK YOU
also wtf im already subscribed to you, but today was my first time watching this and the past video (and i haven't watched your newest videos yet). did you used to have more videos that you've since deleted/unlisted?
@@trayson No. Map Theory Part 1 is my first actual video, although I have also done some streaming before that. So IDK why you're subbed, but I appreciate that you are nonetheless!
The word for the Depths is Homogenous, not Generic. It’s more important that it contrasts the surface above it than have super distinct landmarks - it’s meant to be a grand labyrinth after all.
EDIT: Since the Mother Goddess Statue’s quest involves setting it upright after it topples in the Upheaval, it’s safe to say that it can be moved and has been moved before, like as shown in Skyward Sword.
And also the horned statue in botw and totk moves so yes goddes statues can be moved by Hylia. (I think Hylia was the one to move the horned statue in totk but i really don't remember)
disagree the depths look bad and would have been more interesting with more variety. they are dull and indeed pretty generic
@@highdefinition450No I agree. The depths are homogeneous, not generic, since Hyrule itself looks very generic. But the depths are still one huge biome of nothingness.
You can't be a large, flat, single biome, and be called a labyrinth. I agree it's homogeneous, but it's very minimally designed since there's nearly nothing down there.
I like to imagine that the depths were where Demise and his army originated from, and that after the fall of Demise, the place was left uninhabited for the Zonai to later take over.
That's sounds like it makes sense, good idea!
Considering mobs are stronger there and dungeon bosses can spawn that makes sense
I like the idea
my theory is that the depths are what is left of the sacred realm, because it mirrors the surface much like the dark world does in alttp/albtw
@@squirrellord19 But then how come you can see the sky in the Dark World if it's underground ?
it hurts my head less to place the events at the end of the timeline. like at some point the kingdom fell, the zonai descended, and then rauru and sonia swooped in one day to re-establish it.
Honestly TOTK has pushed me in the direction of itself and BOTW being reboots in a completely new canon(considering how the past of TOTK is very similar to being a retelling of OOT)
@@whyisyes3957honestly it could be possible they’re wanting to rewrite the série Lore to rebuild it more coherently with future games, considering the quantity of lore we got in them. Because rn if you don’t know about the timeline etc it’s easy to assume each game « group » is his own interpretation of the same legend, over and over
@@n.o6889 Yeah, Nintendo might be just resetting things for the sake of making coherent lore instead of balancing three timelines, either through a timeline merge or a reboot
@@whyisyes3957 that just some over the head thoughts tbh, knowing Nintendo it’s not likely. They’re ain’t fixing the Pokémon situation wich have some actual consequences, I doubt they’re cleaning up Zelda Lore for the sake of it
@@n.o6889 GameFreak makes the Pokémon games, Nintendo (and The Pokémon Company) only publishes them exclusively for Nintendo consoles.
Quick note that is ultimately of little to no consequence - you said that the Sealed Grounds temple and the Goddess Statue could've both been moved, brick by brick, to their location in BotW/TotK. I would like to posit an alternate theory, at least for the building. It could've been recreated, and at some point down the line (or even before the recreation), the original destroyed.
The Goddess Statue is POSSIBLY the original, considering the text describing it as the oldest. But it's also possible that it was made afterwards. Just because it's the OLDEST surviving statue, that doesn't automatically make it the First. It does exclude the one in the current Temple of Time from being the SS statue, though. Unless... the one in the Forgotten Temple is even older than the Skyloft statue. (Still the issue of scale though.)
There is also some minor, subtle evidence of Goddess Statues moving or popping up out of nowhere, if we take their ties to the Depths statues & the Horned statue seriously. This would negate the need to explain why there are no remains of the original on the Great Plateau. But like I said, it doesn't ultimately change anything!
Isn't the Forgotten Temple's statue considerably smaller than Skyloft's statue anyways?
@@angelo8606it is
@@angelo8606it can move so becoming smaller to fit in an underground location wouldn't be strange
@@angelo8606 I mentioned that in my comment: As I said: "Still the issue of scale though" - 'scale', in this case, meaning the size of the statue in the Temple of Time.
25:52 Something about map orientation is that Ocarina of Times map align very well with Wind Waker map tilt by 45° if we allow:
- Dragon Roost Mountain = Death Mountain
- Forest Haven = Deku Tree
- Greatfish Isle = Fishing pond (well the owner tells us he fished him there once).
- Windfall Island = Castle Town (and not Kakariko Village).
Even the Private Oasis align with Kokiri Forest, the original house in Ocarina of Time. But it put the Tower of the Gods in the middle of nowhere.
I've been saving Hyrule since the OG gold cart LoZ #1. And if there's been one thing that has puzzled and confused me, it has been how Hyrule seems to just have a mind of it's own when it comes to geography. As I grew older, and learned more about game development, I chalked it up to just how the sausage is made, and the kinds of decisions that you have to make when you're putting together a game with a huge kingdom.
Your two videos on this topic are perfect. Finally, at 40 years of age and playing these things since the beginning, finally the world of Hyrule makes sense to me. You did the research, and the work, and solved a riddle that I didn't even think could be solved. So I just wanted to say "Thank you" for all your effort, and tell you that your channel is awesome.
I am sincerely glad you enjoyed it. That really means a lot to me.
Comments like this really make my day, and encourage me to keep making content.
About Lon Lon Ranch, we see in Age of Calamity that the ranch is still standing in use before the calamity. The ruins in BotW are then just 100 years old like everything else. Whether or not that ranch was the same as the one in OoT but just mantained and rebuilt over time is technically still on the table.
Or a new one named in its honor.
Quite late to the party here but at 14:07, the quote saying the forgotten temple was built to honour the past heroes of hyrule, implies it couldn't be the sealed temple, as that was built before SS link, the first hero.
There's actually a second giant Hylia statue in Skyward Sword in the Isle of Songs in the Thunderhead. The Thunderhead is in the northwestern sky, above where Hebra and Tanagar Canyon would be. It's my belief that that statue also descended to the ground and later became the Forgotten Temple.
That's a good point, I hadn't thought of that. If only it still had the articulated jaw..
I'd also like to note, on the different castles thing.... it's entirely possible Akkala Citadel is the site of Lesser Hyrule's castle. Implying the Four Sword shrine may be underneath it somewhere.
Didn't want to bring it up in the video for lack of evidence, but I've low-key adopted that as my headcanon.
@@brosephlacasquevtuber , what if the ruined strongholds were former castles, wouldn't that hint any cannotical changes to the map?
You showed Cave Story when talking about other things you wanna do on UA-cam at the end and I cannot emphasize enough how fuckin’ hype I would be to see more Cave Story content online in this day and age. That Triforce Heroes idea sounds cool too, that game deserves more attention
Glad to see someone excited for Cave Story! I don't have a theory in the pipeline tho. More of an analysis. But still it's something I don't see nearly enough people talk about and think more people should talk about, and so I'm going to talk about it.
That's the whole idea of the channel honestly. I just want to discuss the things that bothered/interested me that haven't been covered elsewhere in a way I'm satisfied with. Hence the map theory, and TFH theory, and Cave Story.
After these two high quality videos i'd honestly love to watch a timeline placement theory of yours since you seem to consider everything so well
21:45 I remember seeing a sign in Hyrule Castle in TotK that specified that the castle was built after ganondorf was sealed, as a protective measure.
imagine the next zelda game just changes it again
"Kokiri forest is now in Death Mountain! Why, cuz fuck you guys!"
I don't even worry about the maps. Like you said, it's hard or impossible to tell the difference between a cute reference or something that's canonically consistent. There's also no clear indicator of the amount of time between many of the games. And finally, and most importantly, all of the games rightly prioritize having a good single game experience above adherence to the broader lore.
As you said in the video, the Forgotten Temple was built to commemorate the heroes, however, we're talking of the heroes who fought Calamity Ganon. There are no heroes who fought Calamity Ganon between SS and OOT. The Forgotten Temple is going to be built after few Calamity Ganon. So it was built between the last game of one of the timelines and the era depicted on the Sheikah Tapestry (with the ancient hero).
We know the Sealed Temple is in the woods, near Faron Woods. However, the Temple of Time in OOT is in Castle Town, the woods are south to this plain. It's kinda weird for this Temple of Time to be the ancient Sealed Temple.
However, we know about a Temple of Time, that lies deep in the lost woods, near Faron Woods: The Temple of Time from Twilight Princess. I think this could be the place where the Sealed Temple was. They built this Temple of Time in the woods. Twilight Princess tells us that the Ooccas lived on earth before the Hylians. In this Temple of Time we found the Dominion Rod and lot of mechanism that need the Dominion Rod. The Oocca gave this rod to the Royal Family when they were still there. Then they ascended in the Sky with their floating city.
Then they would have built a new Temple of Time, in town, to keep the legendary sword and Triforce close to the castle. The temple of Time in the woods would be abandoned and end up in ruins. Until the day a child returns from the future and splits the Triforce without even removing the master sword. The seal breaks, and the Triforce splits, so there's no longer any need for a seal, as the Sacred realm is empty. After OOT, in the child timeline, the Temple of Time has become useless, and they would have put the master sword back in the old Temple of time, in the woods.
This map theory is way more solid than the "everything pixar is in the same universe" theory.
So i came to both rewatch this and also bring something up. There is a lot which comes before when King Rauru was alive. Especially since there's some evidence of such a thing is there. Granted some is implied, but hey that's how things can be.
The Depths:
Back in Wind Waker, there was a quest/mission to water some withered trees which the Koroks had planted on different islands. And its stated that those trees will cause their islands to expand and eventually become one landmass. So it's implied that the depths used to be the Flooded Hyrule from WW due to the gigantic roots which are there. Plus it would mean that the Ghostly Soldiers who has the pristine weapons which Link can used are the spirits of the Soldiers who died prior to the Great Sea being created.
Zora and Rito:
Personally I believe that the idea of the timelines converging is why the two races are able to co-exist. And possible that the amount of time between the timelines converging and when the Ancient Sages who helped Rauru were alive is so great that both the Zora and Rito just assume to have been both around in the beginning.
Sonia:
Okay, so Sonia having the Blood of the Goddess makes sense with her connection to Zelda. But the fact that she wasn't royalty prior to marrying Rauru makes me thing that Hyrule had merely became a legend by the time she was born. After all, the kingdom could have fallen and been rebuilt countless times. So its possible she had convinced Rauru to name their Kingdom after the one from Legend. And it does mean that they can still be the first rulers of Hyrule.
I completely understand why you feel grateful but also worried about one video blowing up. The same thing happened to me, and I'm like: "No, that was just a fun side thing!" and now it's what you're known for. Anyways, great video!
It is very common and just something that should be expected. Low effort art is easier to appreciate than high effort art, generally does not require as much attention for the audience to understand and is often just less of a time investment.
Thanks for introducing me to this rabbit hole
I'm looking forward to the promising future of this channel, your editing is great and the video's writing and voiceover is awesome! I'll be back to see the next video you make!
Thank you!
Similar to how Miphas statue get moved, I'm willing to accept buildings/ structures may get built in new locations to rebuild temples that have fallen due to evil, natural disasters, or just wear and tear that doesn't get maintained due to the kingdom facing financial trouble and unable to collect enough taxes to do so.
I think the landmarks like mountains and peaks are more important.
As far as the sky islands, they float. If they float, I don't see why they can't also drift. At least drift in time
I think you did an amazing job.
My theory for the merged timeline:
All events occur, being the first ones the events from AlttP's Triforce War, then the child timeline, the oracles, ALBW and TH and the adult timeline.
After that, people moved to New Hyrule and when they came back, they found Lesser Hyrule, leading to Z1 and Z2.
When Rauru appeared, people were rediscovering Hyrule, and he became the refounder of Hyrule.
He just didn't know about its past.
Yeah; my theory, based on pieces from several others I’ve seen, is similar:
(1) the three branches of the old timeline acted as time paradox known to Elder Scrolls fans as a “Dragon Break”-A period where the timeline fragments based on the choices of the protagonist, and all those options happen in separate timelines, but then they remerge later, leaving confused stories of what “really” happened during that period, all of which are partially true.
(2) Rauru and the Zonai came to Hyrule in a Dark Age after the closing of that dragon break, when Hylian civilization had been reduced to tribalism and little of their previous history outside of stories remained. Rauru assumed this was the first Kingdom to be established in Hyrule given the backwardness of the society, but was wrong, so it was a refounding.
1:14 bro is a genius
Yeah, about 4SA's castle:
I think the map makes the most sense if you consider the Castle to be TP's Greater Hyrule and the Ice area and temple to be the Great Plateau/Old Hyrule placement
That way the Four Sword doesn't move between Minish Cap, 4S and 4SA and the castle is in it's most logical placement
And it works with the desert to the west and forest to the east. And while the great plateau area isn't super snowy or anything, it does have it's more cold mountainous sections
Overall:
Huge props on both of these videos.
A friend of mine recently got into Zelda due to TotK and has been asking me lots of lore questions which had me deep diving stuff like geography eventually to figure out stuff like the MS pedastals, castles and ToT placements
So thanks for making these and putting so much thought and effort into them. There's so many ideas you explained way better than I could, and others I never considered!
(As for me, I think TotK's tears make the most sense as a "New Hyrule" founded after the other games on the timeline. Fewest contradictions with previous lore by my estimate. And not the first time we've had new Hyrule Kingdoms)
Again, i know I'm late to these but this was really fun too! And "Ocarinadorf" and "Tearsdorf" had me struggling to hold in my laughter at work. 😂
I hope you keep this up every time a new game is added to this series.
I might. I'd like to. But IDK where I'll be at in 7+ years when the next one releases, lol.
@@brosephlacasquevtuber , you might as well enter the spirit realm(Oot joke)
Am I going through the rest of your videos now? yes. I'm in love with your style here. Let's GOOOO!!
As for the Great Sky Island, I think it used to be where Lake Hylia is now, and the crater it left behind filled in with water over time after it was sent to the sky. Looking at the background of the draconification cutscene, it looks like the Great Sky Island was rotated 180 degrees when it was on land, and its icy mountains used to line up with the Great Plateau's. I also really like your background-castle idea!
Then again, I subscribe to the Ancient Past being before, not after, Skyward Sword, mostly as an Occam's razor situation. Great video, thanks for putting so much thought into a series that's so much fun to speculate about.
Thank you for the spoiler disclaimer. I will absolutely check back after completing the storyline of TotK!
Curious how your map theory would change if you instead used LoruleanHistorian's timeline, where Minish Cap splits off into the downfall timeline instead of Ocarina of Time, and the two Four Swords games take place before A Link to the Past. Really awesome video by the way!
I believe I've seen that video.
And that would remove some of the weird back-and-forth migration shenanigans by grouping all the Lesser Hyrule games together so I'd say the two theories compliment each other pretty well.
The hilarious thing to me about the lava under Hebra is it makes the latest headaches in Echoes much easier. It's crazy to think that the mountains to the north west and south west switched which was frozen or volcanic, but it's totally possible! How long was Vesuvius inactive for?
As for the name being switched, hell if I know. At least Death Mountain being dormant throughout the Downfall Timeline now works as a valid reason for the Gorons to have migrated now that we know they're currently living in a different active volcano.
Man you are one of the most frustratingly inspiring creators I've ever seen, Congrats on your success, teach me your secrets.
Step 1, put the work in to make a moderately decent video, more for your own interest than for any aspirations of actually being a successful UA-camr.
Step 2, have the UA-cam algorithm randomly take you by surprise and signal-boost the ever-loving crap out of that video because that was totally something I did on purpose and totally wasn't the pure, dumb, luck of being in the right place at the right time.
Step 3, ... I- I don't know. Profit?... I guess? What do I do with this information? This has to be a lightning-in-a-bottle type thing, right?
@@brosephlacasquevtuber Lol yeah that sounds about right. I only make content on my other channel, and I've had two whole videos break a thousand views out of the almost 200 videos I've made. Basically what I'm saying is you're doing incredible, and your video quality is through the roof. I'm glad that the algorithm decided to recognize the amazing work you put into these videos, and I hope it continues to do so, because you freaking deserve it man
The only truly important thing I believe comes from adventures, is that there is, or at least can be, more than one Ganondorf (not active at the same time)
I didn't even noticed that was your first video, VERY well edited there man, good job
I actually did an attempted drawn overlay of skyward sword with breath of the wild and with the additional thought of someone else’s theory I’ve actually gotten the idea that the earth spring was not in akkala but rather just Eldin somewhere until it was ultimately buried by volcanic rock or destroyed which would mean that at some point there was originally four secret Springs and it’s possible that the promenade was there pre-skyward sword era and based on my hand drawn map of skyward sword overlaid with breath of the wild i sort of have both Faron lanayru wrapping around Eldin so technically to some degree they can maybe still have the same placement but with the locations of certain areas different and I put the entire placement of Faron woods in akkala which would mean the placement of lake Floria being placed roughly around the same area as Lake Alcala along with the great tree being placed roughly around the same area as the island that Terry town is built on which would have meant that the lake expanded and lost the two trees that were once in it overtime if the volcanic rock within certain areas of the lake was weak enough from water erosion to be very efficient until its current state in breath of the wild and pre-tears of the Kingdom
The one big thing that helped me make sense of all this was the fact that you know, the Downfall Timeline was its own separate universe.
So, it's own parallel counterparts to Skyward Sword, Minish Cap, FSA, and OoT where that universe's version of Link as the Hero of Time was murdered, helped this out a lot.
The next thing that helped me was subscribing to the notion that in theoretical physics, universes can bump into each other, triggering another universe to be born.
It's a different take on the placement of BotW and TotK which is similar to the Refounding Post-Timeline Hypothesis, but also different enough to make its own theory and it helps your map theory make more sense.
Imagine if the Downfall/Decline universe bumped into the Adult and Child Universes split from their original, that could spawn the universe that led to the events leading to BotW and TotK, the only issue with it is how many centuries or millennia would of a temporal gap between those events would that be?
It's open-ended in that regard.
The Mother Goddess statue could be the Goddess statue from the Isle of Songs in Skyward Sword's Thunderhead. Evidence:
1. Location lines up waaaaaay better than Skyloft statue does
2. The size of the Mother Goddess statue not quite matching up to the Sealed Temple/Skyloft statue (although the Isle of Songs one doesn't match too well either...)
3. The Skyloft statue has an alcove on it's raised platform for the little loftwing statue to stand for the competition/ ritual. Mother Goddess statue doesn't have this
4. The Isle of Songs statue is the only one that ever speaks to the player in Skyward Sword (although to be fair, many goddess statues speak to us in Totk, so eh 🫲😕🫱)
5. The Isle of Songs statue teaches us the Song of the Hero! Meaning it has a connection to the intention of the Forgotten Temple's construction in honor of past hero/heroes.
6. There is no place on the Mother Goddess statue for an opening to the original space that held the Goddess Sword in Skyward Sword. (This point is admittedly weak, considering the construction involved in making the temple around it, and also the Mother Goddess statue straight up gives us the Goddess Sword lol)
its such a cool idea and the fact that so much aligns is wild. youve also done a great job making your videos fun to watch and easy to understand. i really hope your channel takes off and you get the recognition you deserve
It's already taken off way more than I could have possibly hoped for TBH. I don't know what I'd do with myself if it got too much bigger. But I appreciate it!
Didn’t finish this vid yet, but I’m looking forward to more of your content! It’s awesome!
Others have made some videos about this, but if you are unaware and I really feel like you should consider layering this map ontop of tears of the kingdom, Nintendo themselves drew an official amalgam map in the form of a puzzle which also acts as a way you can play the games without using the in game maps
where can you find it?
@@Norcy.it’s found easily on google under “legend of Zelda map puzzle”
Though it’s validity is questionable as the map itself is janky as all heck. For instance Stone tower temple is present on the map (when at minimum it should be just on the other side of the planet).
I’m just commenting to see the response to the other guy, if you share the link
@@n.o6889yeah me too
Sauce?
Very cool video! I will say, based on how various NPCs and such talk about the depths, the impression I got was that they're very mutable and change often, hence why they have so many parallels to the surface.
For instance, every surface shrine has a depths lightroot, even before you make the shrine appear, every mountain on the surface is a chasm in the depths, every river is an impassable wall, every named forest/grove has an equivalent with a large tree stump, each location with hot springs has lava under it, each large goddess statue (including the one on the zonai temple of time, which has moved locations since its original placement on the great plateau) has an equivalent bargainer statue, each botw memorial zelda built has a platform with souls in the depths, and every town has an equivalent mine, including tarrey town which was just formed a couple years before totk.
What does this all mean? I'm not sure, but it definitely makes me feel like the geography of the depths isn't necissarily accurate to anything in the ancient past, given how it seems like it can change even with modern changes on the surface (forests, memorials, and tarry town)
Awesome duology! Great editing!
These map videos are awesome and I can't wait for the next part that covers EoW! These videos have inspired me to make my own map theory in the meantime. Still a work in progress but so far I have 5 locations for places Hyrule might've been in the past which I feel fairly confident in.
1. North of The Great Plateau (Post-SS through the Era of Chaos)
Reasoning: It's around the birthplace of Hyrule. Placed further north to be consistent with where I think OoT is (I'm still figuring this part out)
2. Trilby Valley (Minish Cap - Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures, A Link to the Past - Golden Era, Echoes of Wisdom)
Moved to here after the Era of Chaos to protect the Triforce and Master Sword.
Moved to here after Twilight Princess to protect the Triforce and Master Sword again.
Moved to here after OoT in Downfall Timeline because OoT Hyrule was in shambles.
Moved to here after Adventure of Link because Hyrule was growing again.
Reasoning: MC map lines up almost perfectly. Squash a little bit and substitute Tabahl Woods for Minish Woods. FS and FSA make sense from there. ALttP is here because FSA has some of the same structures from ALttP. Also plausible because of Zora (albiet River Zora) living in a part of Hebra Mountain (Would be Lanayru Great Spring in TotK) in ALBW. I also believe ALttP is there because I believe EoW is there as well, and those two maps are connected. The mountain placement works out nicely and is somewhat consistent with MC. The only real outlier is the desert, but I'm willing to sacrifice part of the Lanayru Wetlands and say it turned into the Desert of Mystery/New Gerudo Desert while part of it remained as the swamp that's right next to the desert.
3. Middle Left of Hyrule Field, somewhere around Windvane Meadow (Ocarina of Time - Majora's Mask, Triforce Heroes)
Moved to here after Four Swords to be closer to the Triforce and Master Sword. Possibly also for personal satisfaction and not understanding why they left in the first place.
This is more of a bonus thing but I also think this is around the area Hytopia was in.
Reasoning: Lake Hylia and entrace to Gerudo Desert are further to the south. Makes more sense in terms of scaling Imo. Also, this places the Forest of Time as Kokiri Forest. (Still figuring this out, yeah)
As for why I think Hytopia is here: Desert to the bottom left, forest/plains directly south, water area to the bottom right, volcano to the top left (Hebra active at this time?), and snowy mountain to the top right (Eldin is still active for Hyrule right now. It's a stretch, but the snowy mountain could be Crenel?). It could be another continent too, but hey, it's not *confirmed* to be another continent like some other kingdoms in the series, at least I think.
4. North of Hyrule Field (Twilight Princess, Breath of the Wild - Tears of the Kingdom)
Moved to here after OoT in Child Timeline because Hyrule was growing and could move to a better capitol.
Moved to here pre-BotW because Ganondorf III's body was sealed underneath.
Reasoning: Same reasons as you already gave lol.
5. Above the Deep Akkala region (Decline Era - Adventure of Link)
Moved to here because Hyrule receded.
Reasoning: Hyrule is mostly *north* of Death Mountain which I'm thinking means Eldin in this case. Hyrule is also all coastal. Also I like the Maze Island placement for this.
For the majora's mask in the depth, i have a theory, The Zonai are the Majora's civilisation. I see their history like that.
The zonai a folk who don't live in hyrule. very powerful, they have made few contact only with the land through history. The most ancient one is before Skyward sword, where they start to harvest the chrono stones of the lanelle region with their golems (maybe the stones are related to Somnium). With their incrideble technology, the zonai devellop the occult stone for their great figure, who can amplify the inner power of the people using them.
Zonai have been seen using mask, Mineru having one and the united folk of hyrule being giving one to the ancient sage, so we can think it's a cultutal element for that folk.
During their history, the zonai made one powerful mask with the occult stone : The majora's mask. Who was used for sacrifice as say in the game of the same name. That mask was fed to dark thought and his occult resonance corrupt it to the core, making him a living and independant occult stone who refinforce darkness and inner power to the point to create alternate dimension and nightmare like termina.
The zonai folk die slowly, and when only rauru and mineru remains, they came to the ground where their ancestor found the chronostones. They discorver a fallen kingdom, with a legend of seven sage protecting the balance of the realm. Rauru deceide the rebuild the kingdom by giving him the power of the zonai, and using the mythology of the land to unite the different folk, naiming sages and taking the name of one legendary light sage from the past. For that, he search the last chronostone of hyrule, and discover the depth, with their somnium. Some of the ancient treasure and arterfact of the lost ages were lost or sealed in the depht, like the cursed mask of majora...
Then ganondorf resurect, and his kingdom fell.
So this is my vision of the zonai history, what do you think of it ?
The canon is that Fierce deity was Link of Termina and he put the Dragon Majora to sleep by playing music and while Majora was asleep he killed it and fashioned the Majora’s mask from its Hide
@@blueblase9981 That's the manga canon, but in the last video if i remeber correctly, we see it was written in hyrule historia that termina was made by incarnating the distorted vision of the world of skull kid by the power of the mask.
So, canon contradiction, i prefer to refer to hyrule historia :)
This is the best video on Hyrule's maps I ever found. I would love to state if you just stretch some of the pictures, (Skyward Sword's Faron for example) because in the game you don't actually explore the whole woods, just the important bits. That and due to game graphics, some areas are shown bigger or smaller than they are actually. All and All though, Best video to date I've seen, keep up the work bro.
I'm VERY glad you liked it!
Especially since the main reason I made these videos is because I couldn't find anything else that really satisfied me on this topic. So I'm glad it's scratching that exact itch for others.
Comments like these make my day.
My timeline placement of Totk and Botw is pretry easy to explain and help with some weird story issues
The wild era games story take place at the end of the timeline. The Hyrule kingdom(s?) of all the previous games collapsed at some point after the timeline and Hyrule become a more savage land(that's explain the Hyrule armor style during Rauru reigns). Then, the Zonai come down from the sky and Rauru decide to create a new Hyrule kingdom.
This help to fix any contradiction with past games, every part of the past in TotK happens at the birth of a new Hyrule kindgom long after the collapse of any other kingdom
16:56 I think its reasonable to suppose the ENTIRE pedistal could be moved without removing the sword
On the movement of the castle; similar to my comment on Historical "Traveling locations", that's ALSO another known phenomena.
They're two different castles, for example let's say that the city of Carteneau lies founded on a river, with castle Montegeau at it's head. However torrential downpour and or glacial drift has rendered the city to constantly flood, so... they move the city of Carteneau away from the river. Perhaps to a place of worship, or a valuable trade interfare that's popped up in that time.
They build a new castle in the new location of Carteneau, and dub it; "Castle Montegeau" as the people who LIVED in the old castle NOW live in this one, and the old one is either left in disrepair, or given to a snooty lord to placate his father or something. Later, the constant flooding stops, and the new city of Carteneau (not to be mistaken with a city of New Carteneau) subsumes it's old resting place, and potentially the lordship returns to this old castle, rendering it, YET AGAIN the "Castle Montegeau".
Thusly; there are TWO LOCATIONS for the Castle Montegeau! and if we follow the "castle given to a lord" storyline, at one point there were LITERALLY TWO CASTLE MONTEGEAU.
My interpretation of most of the throwback treasure is that they are replicas rather than the originals. This would give more credibility to oddities like Majora's mask not possessing the wearer. With the goddess sword I kinda just assumed that goddess swords could be made quite quickly and easily by goddess statues.
This would explain how you can get a second goddess sword after breaking it by offering dragon claws to the springs of courage, power and wisdom and returning to the original statue. The thing that made the goddess sword in skyward sword special could have been that it had Fi inside it.
None of what I just said has more than 10 minutes of research put into it but I still wanted to share.
The fierce diety set seems to contradict this theory because "wearing it provides godlike power" in addition to the other x of legend text, whereas the only other attack up armor says it "bolsters your fighting spirit and raises your strength".
Lon Lon Ranch or it's layout, outliving many ancient structures/temples makes sense.
Most dungeons/temple will eventually fall to disrepair or be destroyed and never rebuilt since almost nobody visits many of them or would not have the means to repair them.
Ranches, farms, typically will always see use.
Except for in the timeline where everything gets washed away by a flood.
Or in the timeline where neither the farming village of Ordon, nor the Lon Lon Ranch of Four Sword Adventures maintains the OoT Layout.
Or in the timeline where the descendants of Talon and Malon who share their names moved their operation outside of Hyrule to Holodrum.
Another great video! Only thing I will say is it is possible for the Lon Lon Ranch looking ruins to be Lon Lon Ranch because it would only have to be around for 100 years, not 10,000. Remember that in BoTW the calamity started 100 years before link awakens from the shrine of resurrection, meaning that many of wooden ruins around the map would likely have been created by the initial guardian destruction. This is further supported by how the only surviving settlements all lie away from great hyrule field (which would have been hit the hardest due to lack of natural barriers and being closest to the epicenter of the calamity), with the closest one being Kakariko I believe. Anyways, I really enjoyed watching and can’t wait to see more!
I can't wait for Echoes of Wisdom to throw a metaphorical wrench into the map analysis... again XD
@@ReikoFrostwolf Neither can I.
Honestly, I find it hard to believe that the goddess statue in the forbidden temple is even the same statue from Skyward Sword. After all, it’s been several thousands years (what like 20,000 or so? Time in Zelda is weird…) A statue wouldn’t survive that long even under the best of circumstances. Especially one that was very much outside in the elements like the original goddess statue was.
Around the 16 minute mark, you are talking about the chosen hero, and you mentioned this in the last video, as well. I know one argument, not that I am putting weight to it, but would love to see a game showing it, where a hero we have not seen, used the sword and parked it somewhere else. Oh, and what if the forest grows up around the sword that seals the darkness any time a structure that people build crumbles.
The reason I think the Sword moves to the forest in LttP is because Link dies using it in the Downfall Timeline, leaving it for Zelda or somebody to move into the forest meadow. Similarly, it's under Hyrule Castle in Wind Waker because Link left it behind when he was sent back in time, and that lets the sages move it to where they need it.
As for why it's in the woods in BotW, that depends on the timeline you believe its in. But also 10,000 years is a long time, so who knows what the first calamity's hero did with it...
I'm starting to think that the Master Sword's resting place gets moved periodically (probably by the heroes after their quests are done and with help/orders from the Hylian royal family) and that once the sword is set back in its resting places, it causes a Lost Woods type forest to start growing around it as a means of obscurement and security.
This is amazing i loved both this and the first one. I will stay for what ever content you decide to post
About the Castle, Rauru's castle is on the Great Plateau, you can see it in the memory where Zelda transforms. The modern castle is built after the memories over the body of TotKdorf to plug up that part of the depths. The architecture could have been built over or changed over time as it's simply meant to prevent people from getting to Ganondorf. Keep in mind likewise that the the sealing chamber of Ganondorf is 1300 meters under ground, that's like 10 Hyrule castles. No amount of damage done to the castle in the timeline proper could have reached that not even the Adult timeline portion of it being destroyed. Architecture also isn't important to landmarks that would have been in active use and likely remodeled over the course of the series, so it's entirely possible it's remained the same castle throughout.
things I’ve noticed:
1. When the BotW/TotK castle got damaged in the calamity Ganon started awakening so that castle must have stayed mostly intact from its beginning to its end
2. The castle of twilight princess presumably exploded
3. One male Gerudo is born every 100 years as long as the previous one is dead
4. There hasn’t been one for at least the past 10,000 years
Conclusions:
It definitely has to take place after everything else or in a branching timeline or else Ganondorf would have awoken when a Ganondorf that shouldn’t have existed destroyed the Castle
That's my thoughts too. I just wanted to explore all options to be thorough, and not lose parts of my audience.
Here is what I have to say regarding the new geographical data TOTK brought us in relation to your theory:
1) King Rauru's map and the founding of Hyrule
(I'm going to assume Nintendo's original intent with TOTK was to place TOTK at the end and somewhere in the beginning of the timeline post Skyward sword as this seems most likely to me)
We, the player, have one thing that every NPC doesn't throughout the entire franchise and that is the ability to look into Hyrule as it is, was, and will be. History and the knowledge thereof changes as facts and stories become muddled over time, so even if "the birthplace" of Hyrule quote from King Rhoam was inconsistent its possible (and likely) that NPCs get their history wrong now and again - just like we do to this day. All this does is allow us to question what is said vs what is observed which is actually helpful (and common sense too, but please don't take that as an insult lol).
King Rauru very well probably did found Hyrule. Consider the following points:
A) at the end of Skyward Link and Zelda don't say anything about founding a kingdom - just living on the surface and watching out after the triforce. Thye obviously did a good job as in all of TOTK we see only artwork of it in early Hyrule, so knowledge of the triforce was still present, but it likely was only known by the royal family and held it as a secret, with Rauru and the tears being more widely known (and might as well be as creatures descending form the sky would definitely capture the attention of everybody, same as today)
B) When the Zonai descended, they were only around for about one or two generations (there was only one Zonai king, being the earliest so it isn't farfetched to suggest knowledge of the Zonai faded). In other words, it can be assumed that people forgot about the Zonai and thus the "birthplace" quote can still make sense within the context that knowledge of early Hyrule isn't exactly complete.
To add on to this, people forget that in BOTW they literally rediscovered the guardians - something that were built 10,000 years before BOTW, which strengthens the argument that knowledge of things earlier than that would be lost or at best incomplete. It also means that references to other games, like the skyward sword sanctuaries may have been rebuilt or buildings having some renovations to add in the statues as sacred things (like the temple of time in BOTW).
Locations don't have to match exactly when we acknowledge that some statues and sanctuary sites are new / recreations (they could also be considered just easter eggs / call backs to the original game, like with the skyward sword, but these locations have an in-game explanation which we will use). Also, the sanctuary sites could have been renamed, and bodies of water, small and big DO change, whether minor or major they do shift in shape and location, so for the sanctuary of wisdom, power, etc. They could be the same sites just renamed hence for the "inconsistency."
C) Zelda and Queen Sonia.
Just a brief aside, Sonia never specified what type of blood bond they had (like a great great great great.......grandmother). Its more likely that Skyward Sword Link and Zelda had more than one kid, making Queen Sonia more of an aunt than a mother. When queen Sonia and Rauru were no longer Hyrule's rulers its likely close relatives on Sonia's side took their place seeing as how royal families are even in our world.
2) The forgotten temple, the Goddess statue, and the Master Sword's pedestal.
A) The goddess statue(s)
The Goddess statue in TOTK / BOTW is stated to be the oldest Goddess statue in Hyrule. That statement doesn't specify as to if it is the oldest ever or just the current oldest. Considering that the Zonai map is behind the Goddess statue, it seems this statue is not the same statue we see in skyward sword! This forgotten temple could have been a zonai structure repurposed for the worship of Goddess Hylia - or it could have been built during King Rauru's rule to hide the secret room. building statues of that size don't seem to be impossible for the Zonai.
Another possibility is that the statue is built pre-Skyward Sword and the zonai used the structure during their rule, only for the area to become lost or "forgotten" after Zonai rule. Considering statues can degrade with time and the Forgotten Temple's association with early hyrule and Zonai means that the placement of the big Hylia statue in Skyward Sword does not contradict BOTW/TOTK.
Even if we were to assume it was the same statue, nothing says they can't move a statue that big anyhow, but I think its more likely that its a different statue altogether given that the lore in game says its the oldest Hylia statue in Hyrule, not necessarily the first.
B) Triforce
As for the triforce - no game suggests that only one specific person can use the triforce, just that it depends on their heart. Since Zelda wanted to protect the triforce, its likely she moved it to another location than just build a building around a giant statue (which would definitely bring attention to visitors). Where did she hide it? - the sacred realm, as is stated in OOT. Nothing says that the sacred realm can only be entered through one location only, since Zelda / Hylia in SS is a god, her having access to the sacred realm in some way isn't unlikely by any means. Its also interesting to note that inBOTW we see Zelda use the triforce against ganon - the only time we see the actual triforce in BOTW, implying that the triforce remained in the sacred realm and can only be accessed if someone has access to this sacred realm (in)directly. Access could be granted through other, what I'm going to call, access points such as the Temple of time in OOT.
This would also explain why TOTK Ganondorf is more fixated on the tears than the triforce as it is a physical item that he sees first around Sonia's neck (which would definitley stick out more than jewelry or tattoos, especially since he is after power not treasure).
In short - the triforce can move but it was likely always in the sacred realm, spread out when someone enters the sacred realm, or deliberately separated like in SS or Zelda NES (split by Zelda herself, just FYI) to keep it from falling in the wrong hands.
3) Master Sword
Now, we know the master sword can't be pulled from the pedestal - but nothing can prevent the pedestal from being moved. I know this seems like a technicality - but that's because it is, and I've no doubt that this loophole was sued to move the pedestal when needed. For example, the Great Deku tree was appointed to watch over the sword, hence the creation - or - creation of a new pedestal (in TP we see the master sword retired in the sacred grove, a forest area, forest areas migrate and i think the deku tree would've used his magic to take it with him). Of course there is nothing that specifies the Sword has to be in the same pedestal. Either way, we also have to consider the BOTW story where a hero faced calamity ganon 10k years before BOTW - we don't know about the sword's whereabouts between TP / Zelda 2 (which ever timeline you subscribe to, i think its the logical conclusion to all timelines) and the battle of calamity ganon 10k years before BOTW, its likely the pedestal before the deku tree could be a new pedestal (we don't see how link obtained the master sword before the calamity, just that he had it, its possible that the royal family could have had it and kept it in their possession).
Overall, the pedestal locations can change in the franchise. This one does stump me a bit but I think the explanation of it being put by link or someone else into a different resting area after whatever untold adventure is likely (especially since we only know so much about the calamity battle 10k years pre BOTW, so thats where and when i'm going to say the most recent change in the sword's resting area took place).
4) Ganondorf.
I agree that the sealing place of TOTK ganon was likely a different place rather than directly beneath the same castle. The placement on TOTK overworld map seems to suggest ganon is underground NEAR the castle, not in a dungeon directly beneath the whole building. That being said, if it IS the same castle then it being underneath the ground but merely connected to the castle wouldn't pose any problems to the castle itself being destroyed, but I still think what you say is more likely that this is a separate castle from OOT, likely the same one from TP.
I do have to say that I don't think the castle is a seal, it seems the seal is and always was Rauru's arm, it being connected to the castle just allowed the broken/weakened seal to begin pouring out into Hyrule starting with the castle.
The castle Was built To protect The seal, As in-game Text says.
But the Big spike Under the Castle, and Ganondorf pushing The big Spike away Implies he Is right Under the Castle.
Awww fine you scared me away with spoiler warnings. I'll be back tho!!!
Since you brought up the lack of volcanic activity under tingle islands - Depending on if the tingle islands are an island ridge (formed by volcanism) or columns off the coast of Hyrule (formed by erosion) changes how we'd explain the lack of volcanic activity. If the latter, you wouldn't expect volcanism underneath them. While heavily stylized, this would explain some of the other Lanayru coastline features assuming the same sort of rock. If the former, you wouldn't expect them to form that close to Hyrule's continental shelf, instead that they're old islands (so, as you said, the volcanic activity likely ended) on oceanic shelf currently being subsided underneath hyrule's continental shelf.
Which, if low angle, and we assume the subsidence zone is pulling them in the direction of Zora's domain, might explain that mountain range, with no volcanic activity, away from the coastline. Highly stylized in either case, of course, and I don't actually think The Zelda team are engaging with tectonic simulations to figure out where to put mountain ranges because while some people enjoy doing world building via that process, and it often results in naturalistic results...
...It doesn't feel _likely_ to be something the Zelda team are doing, to me.
Still, both would be explanations for why the tingle islands lack volcanic activity.
I know people have probably already said it, but I vaguely remember a sign inside of a little passage in to the kingdom. I’ll probably come back if I remember and put the coordinates that said. Something along the lines of “ The seal will stay intact as long as the castle is Intact” And it was like because of that reason that’s why the calamity happened under the castle, and the castle was kinda like the seal holding him like how the master sword was Gondorf seal into the legend of Zelda Wind Waker
triforce heroes art being used is so based
0:12 sure did, thats why im here
I am in the "there is no timeline, most of these games aren't actually taking place in the same world, direct sequels aside" camp.
it's very calming here. no trying to piece together world designs that make no sense, no trying to fit together multiple foundings of hyrule, just vibing.
granted I understand the appeal of it all, I just think that the devs only really cared about the timeline from the development of OoT->Skyward Sword, and have since stopped bothering.
since back when the official timeline got revealed for the first time, my theory for why the master sword seemingly moved around was that it was because more games in the series would come out, and the link(s) in those games moved the sword from one place to another based on what would be going down in their games. i mean, presumably, there were many links who failed, even after finding the master sword, who failed and died in battle, hence the master sword not being returned to it's rightful spot, just like, again, presumably, there just as many links who have found the master sword and completed their quest, after which they returned the master sword to where they found it, not knowing it had a specific resting place. and just as many links found the master sword, completed their quest, and returned it to the temple of time. just what i've always thought was the reason for that, because they're never going to stop releasing zelda games, and sooner, more than likely, rather than later, they're going to add more new incarnations of link to the timeline. it does span (at least) 10,000 years. that's a lot of different possible incarnations of link right there.
here's a crazy thought that would explain why there is no official placement for botw and totk, and why weapons and armor from all 3 timelines appear in the 2 games.
What i BoTW is the 3 time lines re-converging as time tries to heal and the combination of the 3 is what creates calamity ganon. TotK is representing the "time travel is a cycle" bit by showing how the sky islands in SS actually happened
I'm in the "BOTW and TOTK are their own continuity not part of any timeline" camp.
This. The story just doesnt fit.
I’m fully convinced that Breath Of The Wild and Tears Of The Kingdom exist in a completely alternate reality or dimension that doesn’t follow the Hyrule Historia timeline. A timeline that starts predating Skyward Sword events, and ends probably around Twilight Princess (where Breath Of The Wild starts).
The inaccuracies of the map is 1 reason. Another reason is Rauru mentioned that he created Hyrule, and there isn’t even any presence of Zonai in any Zelda game until BOTW (unless you count Wind Waker’s Tower Of The Gods). If they existed in one of these timelines, there should be something in one of the games that shows that Zonai existed or made their presence known.
My biggest reason, is the history of the Demon King and how the events of the Imprisoning War is the only information given below Hyrule Castle about Ganondorf, and nothing about how he previously came back in games like OoT and TP. You’d think that if this game existed in one of the timelines, they would at LEAST mention Ganondorf in Ocarina of time below Hyrule Castle. That’s not even it, Ganondorf with the Gerudo??? If this game exists after Ocarina of Time, wouldn’t you think the Gerudo would of learned their lesson many centuries ago to not trust a Voe named Ganondorf after what happened in Ocarina Of Time?!?!
In reality, I think in this new timeline I speak of, elements of different timelines did exist (that’s why I previously said previously reality/dimension), but the way the story played out is not how we know. Like Ruto for example. We learned about Ruto in BOTW, but the story that was told doesn’t directly reflect what happened in Ocarina of Time. In fact, Ruto became a sage.
Also the Ancient Robots in Skyward Sword, they don’t look like the Zonai Constructs and you’d think by their similarities that they’d at least look the same.
I’m looking forward to see if there is a 3rd game that proves me right, because I really do think I’m right, and there isn’t any evidence that’s proved me wrong yet.
Excelent videos ! Both ! I wonder if you considered: 1. That "Creating a Campion" established that BOTW goes a long time after the other games in the timeline, which are considered "The Age of Myth". 2. The extinction-level events that killed the leviathans in the climate change
Something of note for four swords adventure, it actually looks like the ice area is that mountian which has the sheikah tower for the majority of the gerudo desert which isn't the gerudo highlands tower. Is also shares the same shape even.
I choose to believe that the Ranch Ruins are TECHNICALLY the ruins of Lon Lon Ranch from Ocarina of Time, just in a "Ship of Theseus" sort of way. Hear me out: It is technically possible that the family that owned the ranch maintained both ownership and general upkeep of that ranch all the way up until the Calamity. Sure, they'd have to replace the occasional log here and there, probably went through some other less obvious changes, etc. So the Lon Lon Ranch of OoT was still basically there and active after however many years and generations of being passed down through the family, just with a lot of upkeep and replacements along the way. And while that seems absolutely insane on the sort of timescale that we're used to in our world, remember that the world of Zelda seems to simultaneously move much faster physically (in terms of day/night cycles) and also much slower technologically (technically, since even Skyward Sword showed that the distant past had tech that the real world would call hyper advanced, and both BotW and TotK featured civilizations like the Shiekah and Zonai that were capable of things like the Divine Beasts and zonai machines, and yet the rest of the world consistently throughout the whole timeline has always been roughly medieval....), so the passage of time and the advancement of civilization have never really made sense in that case. If a single ranch wants to be passed down and preserved through hundreds or thousands of generations in the same spot, well that makes just as much sense the rest of this technologically stunted world.
And yet the layout of Lon Lon Ranch in Four Swords Adventure is completely different from that of OoT in the Child Timeline. And the farming town of Ordon doesn't seem to have preserved that ranch's layout either.
The Downfall Timeline has multiple parallels to Malon and Talon, (the chicken farmers in Holodrum from Oracle of Seasons, Marin and Tarin in Link's Awakening, and the Milk Bar owner of Link Between Worlds) none of which own, operate, or acknowledge the existence of a Lon Lon Ranch. Nor do we get to see its architectural layout.
And there's no way anything in Hyrule survived the ending of Wind Waker when the whole point was to wash away the past.
Plus the ranchers from OoT didn't seem too concerned with preserving tradition seeing as how it's a completely different layout from the Lon Lon Ranch of Minish Cap. So to say their descendants kept up their farm's exact precise layout for well over 10 MILLENIA
Yeah, I still don't see it.
Doesn’t get said often enough but: thanks for the spoiler warning with specific subjects that spared the details.
I’ll be watching later but appreciate the heads up!
No problem. The video will still be here. Have fun discovering TotK's story. Especially the part where Link [REDACTED].
@@brosephlacasquevtuber 🤣🤣🤣
So, I do think all the old game armours and weapons *are* fully canon. They're relics and recreations discovered by the Zonai as they explored the Depths. I think the Depths are actually what remains of all of Mythical Hyrule, a mishmash of timelines and histories, all in the depths to reconcile the Adult Timeline with the others. The Depths are the result of The Great Sea and the Deku Tree's plan to grow new land overtop of it. When the timelines merged, all the living people are still "on the surface" as they always remembered, and all the relics of the mythological era that faded from memory were buried deep below the earth, until the Zonai uncovered it.
That was your FIRST VIDEO? Damn dude. Looking forward to the next ones then.
I think its a good thing they esentialy merge the timelines in the new totk masterworks that apeared yesterday in japan. Now we can rest easy knowing all the time line before oot architecture debate was stupid and this man knows whay he is talking about.
Very cool map theory vids, thanks for all the work! Earned a sub from me - even if you don't necessarily make more Zelda theory content in the future, the way you reason things and put them together give me enough evidence that other videos from you would be interesting regardless of topic.
One way or another, as others said, I'd definitely be interested in a video of your take of where BOTW/TOTK fit in the timeline (even if you think it may be controversial)! And I just saw you went ahead and made that one Triforce Heroes video, going ahead to watch that next :)
Cheers!
You don't have to move the sealed grounds to make the forgotten tempple align with them, because the forgotten temple could be a recreation of the temple of Hylia and the goddes statue could be moved by Hylia like the horned statue from botw to totk.
First,
I LOVE your approach to solve things. It really seems like you are collecting facts first and then draw your conclusion based on the evidence, but also always aware of "waht we don't know". This is also a great difference compared to people who insist their premises are right while there are still alternative views out there, such as the timeline placement.
second,
I think the Timeline Placement for Past ToTK is during OOT after the king established Hyrule after the bypassly mentioned in a throwback narrative. However, Zelda's arrival causes changes: She observes the power of one of the Mystery Stones during Ganondorf's assaults, Ganondorf recognizes them, and goes after the mystery Stones instead of the Triforce. He still plays the trick; offers loyalty to the king, murders Sonia and eventually being sealed away while Zelda turns into a dragon. This causes a fourth timeline, eventually merging with all the other ones in Past-ToTK at a certain point, the point when Link and Zelda leave. This causes all the geoglyphs to spawn suddenly and is the reason why things outside the fourth timeline haven't been seen before, while now they merged together with the other three timelines we see in botw.
This implies a few changes for OOT as well. For example, the king of Hyrule would have been Rauru all along, maybe the sage Rauru, the King (I don't remember we ever saw him) and the owl are one and the same. Like in Past-TotK, Rauru accepts the offer of Ganondorf, zelda remains sceptical, while Rauru thinks it is a good idea to keep an eye on Ganondorf. Just in the other three timelines, Rauru decides to actively teach a hero to defeat Ganondorf by assiting him, but never shows himself as the king, neither to Link nor his daughter. Ganondorf is only sealed under the castle in the fourth timeline, in the other oes, he either wins or gets sealed as seen in TP or OOT.
24:55 The frozen area in 4 Swords Adventures could be Mount Hylia, or the mountain south-east of Vah Naboris. Then it would line up a lot better.
Correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't played TotK (or other Zelda games besides BotW for that matter) and the english translation is different from other ones, but the way I understood all that Calamity thing was that the reason Calamity Ganon existed in the first place was because Ganondorf was sealed away but technically still alive, thus unable to reincarnate. So, no Zelda game could've had happened between the foundation of Hyrule and Breath of the Wild, specially not ones with a Ganondorf in them...
I'm confused and I don't know enough of this series to know what I'm missing.
That's also the way I understand it also, but I wanted to cover all bases so as to not lose people. because there are some whose theories allow for more than one Ganon at a time I guess.
@@brosephlacasquevtuber what if Ocarina of time was AFTER Tears of the Kingdom? 🤯
@@Kayclau No Oot is before Totk.
@@Ahouro but what if
@@Kayclau Aonuma has confirmed that Totk is after Oot on the timeline.
I sub to the theory of the REfinding of hyrule after hyrule warriors (the first one) due to the fact it connects the 3 timelines together in one giant era and due to plate shifting of the planet it makes since why certain buildings are gone and rediscovered or straight up moved like the forests, lakes and rivers.
Well, the devs have said they rearrange the geography often just to keep things fresh.
That's the main reason I don't really consider the geography of Hyrule much at all.
Also, I heard recently that Fujibayashi (I think it was him specifically) used the art from an earlier "Map of Hyrule" poster as the basis for the new map in BotW.
Also, for all intents and purposes, Fujibayashi confirmed in the latest Famitsu interview that Rauru's founding of Hyrule is a re-founding.
I like the idea that the spring/shrine mismatches were the result of the original shrines being destroyed, but then the culture re-discovering the "blueprints" and recreating them, but they did it slightly wrong. Something similar happened in the real world with the hebrew people, the first great temple that they built was destroyed, and for years it was more or less forgotten while they were in exile, and then someone basically just started reading the scriptures again and then requested to go back and rebuild it. But the version that was rebuilt wasn't exactly the same. (nor was it meant to be, they didn't have the same budget most likely while they were in exile)
Any youtuber that ends their video with "K, I love you. bye." is a good one in my book