Are Avoidants Bad People?
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- Опубліковано 21 бер 2024
- Are Avoidants bad people? Join Coach Craig Kenneth and Coach Victoria in this thought-provoking video discussing the misconceptions about avoidant attachment styles. Are avoidant people really bad? Explore how childhood experiences shape attachment styles and why avoidant behaviors may not necessarily reflect someone's true character. Find out in this engaging debate on morality and attachment theory. Subscribe for more relationship insights and advice!
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Bad people? No. Bad partners? Weeeelllllll……….😅
All I am going to say is, I don't want to deal with them anymore. They are immature and hurtful. Let them get in therapy like the rest of us do.
My ex was not only avoidant, he also kept lying to me. Reason being, I would have become too clingy if he’d told me the truth why he‘d acted this or that way. I might have been able to adapt to him showing feelings differently than I would have wanted him to, but once you lie to me, all respect and trust is gone.
Well, consider that anxious, smothering, pushing boundaries, and fearful of abandonment with someone asserting their space and wishes - both verbal and non-verbal - puts the other in an uncomfortable and disrespected position. This means, even if he weren’t avoidant, but secure, you were pushing him away. It wasn’t his job to coddle and train you to be secure.
He likely did communicate. And, you admitted you would be clingy, etc. it forced him to make excuses to maintain his boundaries, space, and wishes. Borderlines will disregulate others because they refuse to work on themselves and blame others instead of being accountable.
Borderlines are known for leaving a trail of destruction. Seems to me both anxious and avoidant have work to do on themselves and don’t belong together. But, Borderlines should only be with other Cluster B. It’s not right for Cluster Bs to destroy lives, because all these are manipulative, lie, play games, and are bent on control bc of their fear of abandonment, selfishness, lack of empathy. Impossible for any Cluster B relationship to not be destructive to and dishonest with a non-Cluster B person.
What other choice did your ex have? He did communicate many times. Was it his responsibility to go round in circles? I’m not claiming to know, I’m guessing based on what you said. It depends on degree/severity of avoidant, and anxious styles , timing in the relationship (how long dating), boundaries and wishes expressed (are they pushed, broken with excuses? - excuses are dismissing if one is not honoring the others boundaries and wishes. , etc.
I had a business partner friend - new. From the beginning, I was very clear that I was only interested in platonic. He knew that I was in a very delicate circumstance. I was in trapped and destroyed 60 years old, all by myself, and needed to become secure I had worked and put together over $200,000 in business Profits and met him at the time I was going to find investors to split with. He had just received an inheritance and was interested in doing that with me. I’m also disabled. I was very weak, and I had to manage my time as I needed with priority. I was very clear on my boundaries.
Well, from the beginning this piece of garbage was so clingy, he pushed every boundaries he kept showing up. He ignored my expressed wishes. He played games, and as it turns out he lied he never intended to invest so what he did was he wasted my time with all of his games, he was bent on control, and that control included beating me down so that he weakened me so I couldn’t tend to my business, my health or my cat who had serious health problems. He disregarded that I had no interest in a romantic relationship. But he pushed, and he pushed, and he pushed and much of it was so-called unspoken, but very evident.
She’ll guess what I lied, because he would never accept my wishes he was a scumbag liar from the beginning. He’s always run his life manipulating targeting vulnerable people because he’s needy and at the same time he’s afraid of abandonment. He’s a compulsive liar he ghost he took all my belongings from storage and ghosted me for five months.
And he was still bent on control when we got back into contact
So why did I talk to him? Because he had all my belongings and I played his manipulative tactics right back on his own head just enough to let him think that I would move in with him you see, he moved his belongings to his place that he moved to in the country and he wanted me to move in with him he was diluted and actually a scumbag, because from the beginning it was always platonic
But in order to get my belongings back, I had to buy time until I could get a big truck out there and pay for it, not warn him that I was coming with a big truck, but tell him that I had to get herbs for my cat and for me from my stuff I showed up with a big truck surprising him he couldn’t be forewarned or he would’ve ghosted me again and burned my belongings because he couldn’t control me I find out later that he’s a rapist. He’s a scumbag. And. He’s a borderline and narc. Who tried to entrap do you think I would’ve had my boundaries respected if I had moved in with him because he cornered me and tried me to force me so much for anxious, personality style, because there’s a point at which the other person has to either make excuses or cut it off
Depending how extreme that anxious person is, there is a severity where they shouldn’t be in a relationship except cluster B, because the other person is completely stabilized, and their life is disordered, overwhelmed, and their own mental health is affected by this anxious, personality style IF IT IS SEVERE ENOUGH. If it’s severe enough, it absolutely disrupts the peace and mental stability the person’s priorities, dignity, etc.. there is absolutely no excuse for disrespecting another person’s boundaries this includes forcing one’s anxiousness because they can’t get a handle on it
Remember, I said earlier that both anxious and avoidant need to work on themselves. But avoidance aren’t pushing another person’s boundaries dismissing their wishes overwhelming another with their emotions. However, avoidance persons. Can, and do give priority and accommodate. It takes time. It doesn’t happen over And in a normal relationship one should not let it happen overnight
And the thing was anxiety style, it is this style that initiates in measurement and codependence? This is an absolute poison to any relationship, and it is also the thing with a more moderate avoidant that will push them away and make them make excuses. And you can call that a lie. He was honest enough to tell you that what you were doing, essentially pushed him away and forced him into being in a position to make excuses because you weren’t hearing him and were too clingy and needy to the dismissal of his boundaries, wishes or comfort. The avoidant will become more avoidant if they’re pushed, and clinging to.
And no one should have to put up with that or go round in circles to make somebody understand what their boundaries are, and what their comfort levels are. We all accommodate each other’s boundaries look too sense comfort levels of another and back down and honor what the other person is comfortable with. We don’t force it. That’s offensive disrespectful, dismissive, stressful and unloving.
With that Borderline, I tried. The more I tried., the more he pushed my boundaries, it was a game it’s a game I will never play again. I was understanding that he had a fear of of abandonment, even though he was pushing my boundaries disrespecting my boundaries, ignoring that I wanted only a platonic relationship. That’s where I went wrong. And I never will give anybody at the time of day again or work with their fear of abandonment or clinginess. It’s bullshit. I thought I was being understanding and non-judgment. We should judge people by what they do. And there is no compromise with boundaries. None. It’s doomed from the start if somebody can’t respect your boundaries and thinks that you have to work with their them to get better at respecting bound no somebody that can’t respect boundaries doesn’t need to be in any kind of relationship until they can work on themselves and fix this
@@TraciDoering-hw8hu”it forced him to make excuses” you’re a damn clown HAHSHSHAH
@@TraciDoering-hw8hu I'm tired of people automatically assuming that anyone who has a complaint about avoidants are automatically AP. Avoidants suck to be in a relationship with even for secure people.
Not bad just heartless asf I will say
"My ex was an avoidant. She was 39 never married or had children. I believe that's why she's never had a long-term relationship because she only enjoyed the honeymoon phase in the beginning. I'm the attachment type that was wanting a more serious relationship and that's when she started to pull away. I fell in love with her and she never said it back to me. I learned so much watching your videos. They are very helpful to me and made me realize my worth and then I didn't deserve the way I was treated. After I break up her exact words where I think you'll be happier with someone else. She even began dating somebody during a hiatus before we finalize the break up. The Avoident eventually moves on to the next relationship to get to the next honeymoon phase.
So in all actuality the avoidant has problems committing to serious relationships The Avoident will be alone and miserable the rest of their life and later realizing that they could have had the best life and relationship with their Ex who really loved them. It's sad for both people but more so for the Avoident that will end up dying miserable and alone.
Not bad ppl, but they will make sure to never let themselves be open in the manner that is necessary for a truly healthy romantic relationship.
And push you away even if you are sincere and honest the whole time.
It is their talent to love people at arms length and never let anyone in ther heart.
I don’t have any warm feelings for the avoidant I was involved with. She made me feel great the first couple of months but then the out-of-the-blue breakups started happening and we went through that more than 4 times until she started blocking me and now I have no respect for her and could care less about her. I deleted her number and if she reaches out, which wouldn’t surprise me, I’ll ignore her.
Edit: I never acted needy and always remained calm when she pushed me away.
I hear you man. 18 months of good and overnight it literally went to shit. No engagement never went on dates no conversation.....I walked away after 1 "I'm back....no just kidding" episode. She is bad. That is just shitty, rude, cruel, disrespectful behavior. Only good is that I recognized where this was going and refused to put up with it.
@@Ken-od7gc There are alot of excuses made for these people and the damage they inflict on others but I don't see how that pain we get is okay just because they had a crappy childhood and won't get therapy. I've been with one for a little over 2 decades and if I ask for anything in the way of comfort or communication I am faced with coldness, anger, silent treatment. It is hell.
After the breakup a number of our mutual acquaintances told me to remember as I healed that my ex was not a nice person. Those exact words over and over. I was the only one who refused to see it at the time, though now I do.
Inherently bad? No. When they know they have issues and just continue to "avoid" addressing them, dragging hurt and pain to others with their recognized insecure behaviors? Yes that is bad.
As far as I know, I’ve only ever dated secure people before my ex. And from the number of tests I’ve done and from my own introspection, I can easily say that I am fairly certain of that I am secure myself. After the breakup I’ve learned that her behavior made me pull into anxious behavior, which was the reason to why I didn’t feel like myself at the time. However, now that I’ve dated anxious women, I feel smothered 😅
Thank you for this video. I was always very puzzled by the demonisation of avoidance. Yes, avoidants are most likely not going to be great partners. They tend to remove themselves from confrontations and tricky situations, yes, they numb rather than regulate their emotions, which leads to addictive behaviours, yes, they are secretive and, well, avoidant, and yes, they tend to quit before they're fired and they never explain themselves and base their decisions on infuriating assumptions. But that puts the responsibility of why a relationship fails entirely on their shoulders. It requires two people (minimum) to have a relationship.
Their partners find them attractive, they tolerate a lot of boundary violations and evasive tactics, they pursue and self-neglect beyond what securely attached people would find reasonable. They re-enact their own trauma by allowing the avoidant to treat them with neglect and they tend to come back for more. So the way I see it, avoidants and anxiously attached people are two sides of the same coin. They both fear rejection and abandonment and they enter relationships where vulnerability and intimacy aren't really on the table. Anxiously attached people are just as dysfunctional and no, their relationships would not be great if their partners stopped being avoidant. They picked their person because they are emotionally unavailable. If anxiously attached people were ready for a reciprocal, mutually supportive relationship, they wouldn't keep dating avoidants. By focusing on their partners' inability to be close, to communicate, to be present, they avoid their own issues, they externalise the problems they have with relating, and they can keep on projecting their desires where there is no risk of facing the reality of intimacy.
Are avoidants bad people? Some are, some aren't. Attachment styles can change. But the question a lot of those demonising avoidants should ask themselves is why they are attracted to them.
Can you do a video on "What to say when they reach out" Example: "How is the cat?", "The cat is good, and how are you?" Or whatever you are supposed to say back
I would say get the f away from me you lost access the moment u walked away
Thank you for your compassionate analysis on this one. As a fearful avoidant person myself, it's always really hard and hurtful to see that so many people - including social media influencers and dating ''gurus'' - write us off bad, narcissistic and all exactly the same. It's made me me feel sad and discouraged in the past, like I'm too broken to bother even trying to change and can never have a healthy relationship. The guilt over mistakes I've made, and the realisation of how I've made partners feel in the past, was starting to eat away at me, and I felt so hopeless that I began preparing myself to die alone, even though I would really like to find love again and get married. But finding your channel and your work, and the work of others who have a more holistic view, has been a real beacon of hope. I'm starting to feel so different and work through past traumas, and I am feeling so much better and happier for it. Dating can still be difficult and confusing, and I still feel that overwhelming sense of fear creeping in about hurting the other person and not being able to give them what they need, but I'm able to recognise it for what it is now, calm myself, and communicate better. I have a way to go still and lots more work to do, but it's thanks to people like you that I feel motivated to change, and no longer feel that internal security is unachievable. 😊Thanks so much for everything you do!!
Love you guys!! My life has changed because of this channel, I healed, I improve my relationship IQ, became a more secure person (still working on this daily) I replaced "him" with peace ✌️ I'm loving it. ❤️
The constant struggle of trying to get more time with them is a nightmare. She promised everything I wanted in time, and over 4 years, it caused arguments instead! As she kept lying about it! Never again
Everyone brings their own faults to the table, every time. What really matters is how open each person is willing to be with the other, and how much work they're willing to put into both themselves and the relationship. There are a lot of avoidants that know something is off with them, who want to be better, who are trying to be better, but that sort of change takes YEARS and there's so much turmoil and so many steps back that can happen in that time. I think anyone (regardless of attachment style) who isn't at a point where they're either able or willing to put someone else's needs at least at a similar level to their own or isn't putting in the work to strengthen themselves probably should not be seeking relationships with anyone but themselves, but seeing avoidant people generalized as just overall terrible and to be, well, avoided makes me sad. There are really beautiful avoidant people who are trying really hard that do deserve a chance. Not everyone, sure, but that's kind of just life, isn't it?
My hubby is an avoidant!
He lied 🤥 lots over our 22 yr marriage.
He had secret debt of £30,000
He dismissed my pleas over the smallest ideas that meant the world to me !
He was lazy too !
I'm aviodant because of my father. He has never been there. But very caring because my mother is, me thinks. Sometimes I care too much/give positive comment to someone, and get nothing in return.
They’re not bad people just complex. Mine had a hard time showing her emotions, but she always said good things about me. I was the best BF she’s ever had, treated her so well, her family liked me more than anybody she’s dated. Even hung out with her dad and had a great rapport. She dumped me 6 months into our relationship out of the blue and I still don’t understand why. She also did it on a vacation, where I was left by myself to fly back home alone and spent a ton of money. I don’t understand. I was good to her.
My ex lied a lot and kept secrets. Not good for a healthy relationship.
Based on my childhood, which I truly think was good. I've always thought that I had a secure attachment style, but after watching more and more of your videos, it seems like most signs point to me being an avoidant. I was never abused as a child but I did see my mom and dad fighting physically a few times when I was young. When they separated, my custody went to my mom but I was sent to live with my grandma on the countryside while my mom worked in the city. That's why when Coach Craig said "sent to live with grandma" in this video, it sent alarm bells in my ears. But my grandma was never abusive to me and was actually very loving. My mom would visit me on the countryside like once a month. I think I had a good childhood in the countryside playing with friends in the fields and on the beach. I don't know why I could have developed an avoidant attachment style.
I was dumped after 7 years and my ex I think for the most part of that 7 years loved me more than I loved her. She did spend much more money for our relationship and showered me with gifts. A few months before the breakup, she started asking me about our future and getting married, but at that time, I was also having financial issues, my career isn't stable, and I had so many other thoughts in my head that even thinking about marriage was overwhelming me, so I didn't reply to her with a cool mind and instead was giving back her bad temper to her. And then there were times that when she starts asking again about our future and we will get married, I would break down and tell her that she deserves better than me who's broke and who has an unsure future. Like Craig said, that was no BS. She's younger than me by 5 years and at that time I truly felt like she was wasting her life with me and she could do much better with a guy who's got it all together. Long story short, be careful what you wish for really, because she did dump me after our last fight where she asked me again about our future and marriage and I didn't take it calmly. And now I regret so much telling her that she deserves a better guy than me, and I really regret neglecting her because I never thought she would leave me because after all those years of her loving me more than I love her, she never left me, but she finally did and now I feel destroyed especially after stalking her a bit in social media after the breakup and seeing that she's already seeing someone who seem to have got it all together. A really cool job, and a really ripped body. Destroyed my confidence, and I think it'll be a while for me to recover.
That’s the thing an unaware avoidant always think they are secure because they don’t need anything, they don’t need a partner like others do, they are strong, but they are week because they cannot face adversity and avoid anything they think might hurt them, perhaps you have learnt your lessons having hit rock bottom to lose a good woman, now the guy ripped will enjoy her for you !
@@ld921 True. Will always remember the lessons I've learned about this breakup. And yes, he's probably enjoying her now which stings. But I was still able to enjoy her a lot first, so there's that.
@@iconoclast6555 yes there’s that consolation!
9:40 Of course not, but if they get angry and shut down when you want to see them more then you think that they have something against you and we associate that with 'bad'
I dated a fearful avoidant. He is a good person. He was consistent, and I felt taken off by him. He just didn't know how to express his feelings.
Nah. Some people really are just selfish and malicious people. Stop making excuses for selfish people. If they really care about you, they will communicate and act appropriately.
I was the dismissive avoidant. I was bad at expressing my feelings and most of the time I couldn't even translate my feelings myself. I really needed my space, especially when I was in a stressful period.
I was bad at telling her I loved her or when she looked good in a dress she was wearing etc. But I was always there for her whenever she needed help with something or just to have a shoulder to lean on. When I went to her place I sometimes bought groceries and cooked dinner for us because I know she isn't big on cooking. I had my issues but I tried. I didn't know about attachment styles back then and didn't know what was wrong with me, only that something was wrong.
However, I was the one who got dumped and monkey branched from.
And also in retrospect I sort of see that she didn't really do anything for me really in the same way I did for her. She was good at saying she loved me etc but all that is worth less than shit when she monkey branched
I’m sorry you had such a shit experience. its because of the actions of people like that , that it becomes more difficult for people like you to be able to trust. My ex got screwed twice by his ex’s. and when we found each other, I paid for the broken dishes of bnother… He reached out after NC and had been wanting to reconnect, but the same way I can’t force him to be in a relationship, he can’t force me to be in a friendship. I choose not to be like the others in his life, I don’t want to be a toxic person and remember him as someone who disappoited me. He is a good, but broken man who unfortunately has fears so big, he’d rather push away the girl he loves. Anyway glad you are learning about attachement.. I wish you luck with the journey of self discovry and improvement
Still nobody should be treated badly but avoidants need to heal themselves and traumas...Dont go and ruin persons life
I need to tell you, you were actually great. You are not truly dismissive avoidant. You only got some of carateristics and that's normal. Don't ever blame yourself. We wish other guys were like you. You did your best. Trust me and go in peace.
@@ana-91-11 ❤️
@@ana-91-11 she was with this new guy just a week after leaving me. They have now lasted longer than our relationship did. I thought I was healing, I was at least okey. Yesterday a mutual friend told me she is moving across the country to live with him. I haven't felt this gut wrenched since the breakup
There have been times when I dated someone who was more attracted to me than I was to them. It was confusing, and I thought to myself I might be avoidant. But in hindsight, I realize it was just unbalanced attraction. I have also acted with a great deal of anxiety toward partners who I believe are less attracted to me than I was to them in the past.
That’s a really wise distinction. And if either party expressions this openly, and then the other has a problem with it and still pushes with XP expectation against the others comfort level., then this is a big red flag. The alternative, both ways, the one being more attracted, and the other being less. is for either party to part .ways romantically. I’ve been on both sides myself, and the latter was my answer.
YES 😅
I have no empathy 4 avoidants, they shouldnt be in relationships if they havent healed their traumas and attachment issue bc they end up USING and HURTING others..Avoidants take responsibility and stay away from others, its not fair 4 others 2 take ur abuse
I have great compassion for my avoidant friend of 7 years who deactivated, and I have been mostly no-contact with (except for FB likes), almost 5 months ago. He pulled away suddenly after I (anxious) had a trauma response after a family wedding and became a bit snarky/demanding of him (unable to self soothe). He Freaked Out, was highly distressed, and accused me of seeing him as a "bad guy" for not being able to provide me more support. I can totally understand how him being the firstborn of an Awschwitz survivor as a child (mother-age 86) for whom he is currently a live-in caretaker has affected his attachment and mental health. We are both in our 60s, never married, affected by inter-generational trauma. I hope and pray he gets the support he needs to heal.
Sorry guys, all I hear are explanations and rationalizations for truly shitty and hurtful behavior. We all have our issues. Deal with your issues.
❤EVIL❤
My Advice For Others Out There.
Just Leave These Avoidants As They Are, When You Try To Fix Them Out Of Love It Will Only Be Pain For Rest Of Your Life.
Love Youself And Find Someone Who Brings The Best Out Of You.Find A Wife Bro..
Can one time sexual abuse through a partner in teen ages and further short term emotional neglect in a following short term relationship cause an avoidant attachment style in relationships? She did have a very stable family, however showed clear signs of avoidance within the relationship.
I’m an anxious. Weirdly enough, the more I watch this channel, the more I want to be with an avoidant. Now that I learn about the attachment styles, I think avoidants are interesting. I want to understand them.
I’m currently dating a secure person and to be honest, it’s pretty boring. There’s no ups and downs, no push and pull, no roller coaster, no fun, no challenges. But it’s just secure. Everything has pros and cons I guess. lol
I wish I’ll meet another avoidant that I like in the future or maybe my avoidant ex will come back to me. I’m in no contact right now.
You crave instability and that means something wrong
It doesn't
Just want a little advice.
Started dating someone in November.
Till December everything was great. Meeting daily, out till 3am, sex was wild.
Then suddenly her birds (she's a a bird lover, she's got around 8) got frustrated over she not being there enough to give them attention. Started plucking, biting, gouging each other. (Whole shitstorm)
She blamed it all on we always being out.
Told her okay...do you want me to start coming over? So we can still meet, yet not leave them alone as a couple of them were in bad shape.
She said no, when we meet we go out. I need a break from this madhouse. So I left it up to her to see when she was available.
Then we started meeting only maybe once, or twice max at most weekly. Meets became very short.
No hugs, no kisses. Let alone sex. The vibe really was off. She'd literally tense even if I gave her a simple hug.
She complained about not meeting vet bills. Offered to help. She refused.
Then she complained about not having time to even do shopping. Offered to Include it with mine. Refused.
Messages got shorter. Calls even less....
She also had some work issues and she started getting really angry all the time. Shutting down any form of communication.
We had had a lot of plans (gym, shooting club, gaming clan etc), but they simply dissappeared.
I asked her look, can we at least plan when we meet - because I've put everything on hold but I need to start them, and you can join later np.
She exploded,said I was making her feel guilty about not meeting, and she's fed up.
Then she called it off. A week and a half of she saying she needs time, space, confused (via text)...then calling it off completely. Saying I brought her bad luck...
Still trying to understand this cartwheel tbh...
She sounds like a heartless, cruel, and dishonest person. Maybe a borderline or narc. You deserved better. She played games and lied, period. Please consider not letting her back in if she comes back. She’d pull you back and forth again.
It doesn’t sound like she appreciated that you gave her all of your time and devotion your priority you also were understanding overly accommodating and willing to be there for her however, she needed and disregarding yourself to make it work.
She strung you along was completely disrespectful and uncaring. She was outright, cruel, and how she ended this relationship with you. She was not forthright. She didn’t bother to give you closure or to respect your heart time and money event invested.
It plain and simple speaks to her character and selfishness. It is not a reflection on you, except possibly you gave too much after she started turning disrespectful to you. Sometimes it’s not as easy to see peoples character right in the beginning. It also sounds like she has deep, psychological problems, which is not a healthy foundation for a relationship.
I’m sorry that she treated you like that. She was horrible and you deserve a woman that would never do that even if she started to lose feelings, or whatever reason, we all deserve to have clear communication from those we’ve invested our heart with. You sound like a great guy. Tried to go a little slower in the beginning. The wild sex will still be there. It’s a better foundation to build a relationship upon and also a wiser way to be able to see someone’s character without the cloud of emotions and sex, taking over. I see that from experience because I’m probably older than you.
@@TraciDoering-hw8hu tbh....still trying to process this. Can't figure out what I could have done different...
They arent bad people. As much as I want to shit on my ex I became an anxious wreck. Im just as bad as her.
Not bad, just lost.
FOR GAWD SAKE PPL GROW UP. ALL YOU ANXIOUS ATTACHERS ARE JUST AS MESSED UP. Listen to the good dr'.s and take a look in the mirror
9:45 Yes. I wouldn’t be dating someone if I didn’t want to spend time with them or show affection. They are often bad people because their actions tell us they don’t care about our well being. Good people don’t treat others like that. If they don’t plan on participating in the relationship, why agree to it in the first place? I don’t think that most avoidants love to torture the anxious. But, then again, good people don’t tend to torment others…
2:16 heavily disagree with coach Victoria here… It seems pretty objective that if you mistreat or neglect someone who YOU agreed to be in a relationship with, you’re at the very least immature and have some kind of issues that need to be addressed before you can hurt someone else…
The short answer is yes