Batman in the CW WAS AWFUL...
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- Batman making an appearance in the CW Arrowverse, sharing the screen with the likes of The Flash, Green Arrow, and Supergirl, was highly requested by the fandom. The CW brought in Superman, which eventually led to the TV show Superman and Lois, but in the case of Batman, Batwoman got her show instead, conveying that Bruce Wayne had left Gotham a few years prior to the show's events. Batman's inclusion could have led to a Justice League-type team-up in the Arrowverse, and many Batman adaptations in TV feature Batman sparingly. Examples include Gotham Knights and Titans, which featured Dick Grayson as Nightwing, Jason Todd as Red Hood, Barbara Gordon, and Tim Drake as Robin. The Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover event, inspired by the DC Comics event, featured Kevin Conroy as an older Bruce Wayne. The DCU will hopefully shed light on the Batfamily in ways that couldn't be accomplished on television.
#batman #dccomics #justiceleague #theflash #arrow #supergirl #gothamknights #nightwing #dcu #robin #superman
To be fair, Ruby Rose left over safety concerns.
And a production assistant did get paralyzed from an on-set accident.
And yeah, even if she'd stayed, the show would still be trash.
To be even more fair, the replacement Batwoman was still fairly good. Not only was she an original character, but Ryan also had a lasting impact on on the Batwoman character, even getting into the official dc comics. The problem was, the direction and writing. They trashed her character in the flash, but again, different show so not entirely the fault of this show…I mean there’s some blame because the CW cancelled that show before anything smart could be added to explain why Ryan was is it and also as the Red Death. Personally, I preferred Batwoman over the last half of shows like The Flash and Supergirl and Legends of Tomorrow for example. Yeah it wasn’t too great, but it still had that underdog charm amongst the sea of bad cw arrowverse content that was at least tolerable and not NOT worth the watch. It’s decent enough, but not too great either. I’m glad I at least watched it, but I know the DC tv shows moving forward will be better, starting up with our official new reseter with Creature Commandos.
@@SilverPlayer2002 "But Ryan also had a lasting impact on the Batwoman character," Uh... Friend... You realize that both her and Kate are the reason Batwoman as a character are permanently despised by DC fans... Right...?
Batwoman... At the end of it's run couldn't even break 1 Million viewers per episode... Meanwhile a Shithead nobody with a Cartoon Clown and Purple rabbit pulls over 50 Million views... PER...
That's... That's not a lasting effect you WANT on a character...
I'm legitimately not trying to be rude... But... Lois Lane LITERALLY had one of the BIGGEST down sizes of her life going from high stakes city reporter to small town mayor raising two boys...
And people legitimately couldn't be happier for her compared to Batwoman...
@@SilverPlayer2002I don’t even know how u got that far I got to season 2 when they find out they are half sisters or done shit and Batman saved one what a load of bologna I couldn’t even finish the flash an I loved first 4 seasons
"We're moving back to gotham".....HUH?
That felt forced NGL
Well considering how bad national city was with the constant aliens I think most people would rather not deal with alien invasions every other Thursday
Who in their right mind would move BACK to a city like Gotham? I'd rather take sunny National City over a city that's always rainy and depressing.
@@suryasingh9738 that depends. Do you wanna have all the sun shine plus weekly alien invasions?
@@jonathanhill3668 As oppose to the psychotic clown, Mud monster, human crocodile, human bat, Plant lady, Jester lady, Butcher in a pig mask, multiple crime bosses, A masochist that uses fear gases, an emotionless Ice man, cult full of owls, a corrupt justice system and worst of all a dude that shoots Ketchup and Mustard.
Dawg do you what it's like getting rid of those stains off your clothes???
What's even worst is that they escape every other day and or week.
At least in metroplois Sups will save me in time. In Gotham I or someone i care about will be found dead in a week or 2.
I will NEVER forgive CW for wasting kevin live actioncapreance as batman just for them to set up batwomen as the new batman. Im glad CW the company is over.
Fr i just watched BTAS and i loved it, seeing Kevin in live action was a treat just wish they would have used him more
& Worse part?
Said Batwoman(Ruby Rose) LEFT THE SHOW AFTER 1 SINGLE SEASON 🤣🤣
Why? Warner never gave them the rights to Batman that’s why arrow was a copy of Batman
@@jonathanhill3668 Wasn't Arrow's whole plot that Oliver kills? & Isn't Batman's whole thing that Bruce doesn't kill?
@@ArcTrooperRod-269 Tbf, Batman did used to kill in movies and when he first appeared in the comics. Oliver killed early on in season 1 but then he MOSTLY stopped.
If you're gonna have Batman kill the Joker, show him kill the Joker. If you can't fully use them don't make it a plot point.
Nah mate your dumb don’t you know we have to elevate badly written characters by having the good written characters do something out of character to make the bad characters look good in comparison, come on bro it’s writing 101 get it together
Or, better yet, just don't do it at all.
CW destroyed every property they got their hands on, no shame, pure fanfic writing
The moment they ship Oliver and Felicity it's clear this is just a fanfic with budget.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they also make Stargirl, which I thought was actually pretty ok
@@bloodstone1992 Stargirl and Superman & Lois had special treatments with bigger budget and better writing teams (Stargirl even had Geoff Johns on board).
@akwilson1676 wasn't Geoff Johns also on Titans? And that turned out to be a disaster
@@bloodstone1992 Yeah don't get why though. Stargirl was different because it was basically his brain child. He created the character so having him on board really created a difference.
Titans showed bruce wayne but cw batman was just so horrible he didn’t get any screen time
Yeah cuz they literally weren’t allowed to use him
Also titans Bruce Wayne was older and while never accurate if they had shown him more he would’ve been better. A 30 plus year old Batman veteran who’s lost Alfred his moral compass probably lost Selina and who knows much alongside his son dick hating him then his other son being killed by Jason worst then in the comics breaks. It kinda makes sense in a elseworld story
@@jonathanhill3668 are you a Bot? Stop spamming on every comment
@@ArcTrooperRod-269 no people like you are just fucking annoying. The cw had its problems but they weren’t allowed to do things regardless now how good they got
@@ArcTrooperRod-269 He's allowed to express his opinion just as much as you.
being fair when we FINALLY saw Batman in "Gotham" it was supposed to be better but WB forced them to change the suit and cut a bunch of episodes iirc
He looked awful. I love Gotham, its VERY GOOD, but the last episode was ass. Joker was weird af and bald, Batman looked horrible, and they replaced the actress who played Selina.
@@eobardthawn6903 The looks of the Joker and Batman are because of WB's stupid mandates.
@@jturner2577 I know. Batman looks the worst I've ever seen him here. It is what it is. I can forgive the show because it's really good besides the last episode.
@@eobardthawn6903I really liked their Joker, it was something different from the hundreds of Mark Hamills
And Marc Guggenheim was upset James Gunn didn’t include him in the DCU.
Gee Whiz! I wonder why?
Who is that?
@@astrobat1638 show runner for the cw-verse
@@astrobat1638 He was the creator and “architect” of the Arrow-verse.
@@tusheerdatt3441 I see... Yeah they shouldn't cast CW showrunners to do big budget blockbusters.
Batman being caught slipping and getting murdered while putting on his suit is just hilarious
And also degrading.
The worst part was how the writers of batwoman was like yeah he left gotham for no reason. Also how they basically said in batwoman season 3 that anyone could be a rogue in batman gallery. No batman villians work because of the character themselves not the powers. Don't get me started on gotham knights and how it disrespect everything batman did
It's crazy to think we live In a timeline where Kevin Conroy Batman gets disrespected twice by WB just to prop up their new "girl boss" protagonist. Some MCU and star wars level writing that NEVER works from this extremely untalented writers
This actually isn’t something I’d classify under the “Bat-Embargo”. This rule actually goes back to the 80s, as the Batman media struggled hard in the 70s and late 80s to move away from the Adam West show. After The Dark Knight Returns and the 89 movie, the public started to view Batman as a more serious character. And with that, DC and WB thought that putting the character back on TV would make the public think of the Adam West show. Which led to Batman being denied in both Lois & Clark and Smallville. It’s an unfortunate issue, as a true Batman show would be absolute fire if given proper direction and budget
Ikr?
Honestly, a Batman series in the style of The Wire would go hard and a long running serialized story would allow for more elements of the character to breath. With how anal WB, it wouldn't be a live action series but... with the success of Invincible, a gritty adult focused animated Batman series could go hard.
@@gfilmer7150 you think they would’ve learned from the success of the Marvel Netflix shows and Arrow that a grounded, gritty superhero show can work. And Batman is someone who works far better in long-running plots than a 2-3 hour action movie. But that’s just my opinion
@@joeker5208 Least WB could've done was test the waters by having a some sorta live action series following either Nightwing or Nightwing + other Bat Family members. I think a series containing the cast to just Nightwing, Batgirl, and Red Hood would be interesting (as long as there's no gross love triangle stuff) as we could see what Batman's world might be like if he were to die.
@@gfilmer7150 I think a Bat-Family or a Post-Batman show can work. But I’m grateful the CW never made such a show. They lost pretty much all of their good writers by the time of 2017. Maybe one day we’ll see a gritty Batman show on a streaming service
Leave the Gotham suit out of it 😭. Wb made them change it last minute
WB literally forced them to turn the last 2 entire seasons of 20 episodes each into 1 single season of 10 episodes
*F*ck you Warner, You're just Mad that Gotham made better everything you haven't even done*
@@ArcTrooperRod-269 Gotham was a great show too. Wish they actually showed batman more
Yeah the concept art was the new52 suit in all black but WB rules were can't have the color scheme nor resemblance of any bat suit past present and in the works
WB had one fucking job
@@aurahoneydew9607 WB rules are self sabatoge.
2:42 You pretty much summed up why im glad they didnt bother adpating Batma and by extention the Bat family. CW is widley known for drama, 3 way relationships or having characters make dumb and unreasonable decisions.
There is a reason why the CW PPG was cancled
Arrow season 1-2,5,8 and even 3 to a degree alongside flash season 1-3 alongside the first part of 6 and 8 alongside all 3 seasons of stargirl and all 4 seasons of Superman and Lois and all 10 seasons of smallville literally prove you otherwise
@@jonathanhill3668 It's amazing how much people shit on the CW when it's given plenty of good shows: Arrow, Flash, Supernatural, Legends of Tomorrow, Superman & Lois, Vampire Diaries (first few seasons seemed fine) the list goes on.
@@suryasingh9738 Ik it’s the later seasons ppl hate on and cuz it’s a network thing
@@jonathanhill3668 Yeah, when a show goes on for too long it loses its flavor. The Flash did by its 9th season, Legends did after 3, and Supernatural had a few good seasons here and there after 5.
@@jonathanhill3668 Imo, Arrow season 6 and the first half of 7 weren't too bad. 4 is still boring even to this day though lol.
Okay. I hear you. Counterpoint; All-Star Batman.
Nobody can beat how just wildly out of character he is.
Yeah but he's so out of character that it wraps back around to being an interesting take on him
@anobserver4375 I wouldn't go that far, it's honestly just god awful.
@@anobserver4375 Interesting like a train wreck.
He's so edgy and offensive it wraps around into being so hilarious you can't take him seriously. @@anobserver4375
Crazy Steve strikes again
The CW never treats Batman well, I mean look at Gotham Knights look at how they did Kevin Conroy and they didn't even really give Warren Christie a chance to play the Arrowverse Batman (who wouldn't have been too bad imo).
We could have gotten a version of batman like the Titans were he KILLS about 20 cops COLD BLOOD
without any thought that they could have families and they would sofer just like he as a kid
They could have done an entire storyline where Hush pretended to be Bruce, but noo, he just steals a car, making the cliffhanger pointless
@@martinperez-ceron1236 They wasted Hush? Wow, in his first live action appearance?! I didn't even see the damn show because of how they dissed Batman in the trailer.
@@suryasingh9738 ngl, i actually liked the casting for Bruce. Its a shame we never got to truly see it
1:13 This is my favorite clip in Supergirl. You see superman take out one drone and now you wanna go back to the most crime-riddled city in America 😂.
Crime-riddled? I get it. The Riddler is in Gotham.
@@SeanWheeler100hahahahahah
The Main Problem with Batman & WW in the Arrowverse is the same problem that the MCU Will face with Dr. Doom & the X-Men:
Those characters SHOULD BE FROM THE START, if you can't introduce them earlier then better just omit & save their existence entirely, because
a) Those Characters are key founders of their Universes, they won't work if you introduce them so lately in the Party
b) If you want to Retcon them & pretend they always were there then that will inevitable lead the Questions: *WHERE ARE THEY NOW & WHY WEREN'T MENTION NOR INTREVINE IN THE PLOT BEFORE?*
No the main problem is Warner didn’t let the cw use Batman or Wonder Woman. Do I have to do this to every comment?
@@jonathanhill3668 Just like how the MCU weren't allowed to use the X-Men or the F4 (at least before they got the rights).
@@suryasingh9738 you seem to lack enough reading comprehension to understand the whole explanation I just commented, PATHETHIC
@@jonathanhill3668 no, you don't have to, but apparently you don't seem to have anything better to do 🤡
@@ArcTrooperRod-269 I do
These writers really just suck, because they unintentionally laid the groundwork for a potentially interesting "Batman disappearance" thing too. Like with how in touch to the multiverse the CW is, they could've had Batwoman's TV show version "vanishing" due to some multiversal shenanigans. Then they could've had him be the one that reappears with Conroy playing him in Crisis. Being potentially injured, but far more content then most versions of Batman ever were. You'd at least get a far more respectful cameo for Conroy, and interesting incarnation of Batman that we've pretty much never seen outside of the Nolan trilogy's version.
Kate Kane is Paragon of Courage.
Actress immediately quits the show one season in. 🤣
She had the courage to quit that awful show
Batman was too good for the dumb CW Arrowverse
Yes he was which is why he was embargoed away from them using him
I read a theory once that The Dark Knight Trilogy was in the Arrowverse the whole time as an explanation for why Batman left Gotham. Honestly, they might as well make that canon since we're never getting a real answer anyway
I hope not because it just wouldn't make sense
We did. Bruce was Batman up until about 2015 where joker killed Robin and just like titans he killed joker or he badly hurt him and went into exile. Also they didn’t have the right to use him
@@darkshadowx803technically it does. Bruce “dies” in about 2016. Bruce in the arrowverse disappeared around 2016
I honestly wished TDK trilogy, MOS, Arrow, Flash, and even the GL movie were all connected back in the early 2010s.
@@suryasingh9738 so, you hate CW Arrow because he's not comic accurate but you love MCU Chris self insert because he's nothing lime comic book thor?
*INSERT TOM WITH SHOTGUN MEME🤡*
When did Batman in other media start becoming the Yamcha of the DC Universe? Any moment they get, they try to kill him. Titans was this close! Heck, Gotham Knights almost had him in the exact pose!
If they ever do, get the guys that're doing Superman And Lois.
Those Writers actually love the character Superman.
Edit: Imagine if the guys behind this show did an Adaptation of Batman The Knight 2022 or The Long Halloween or Arkham Asylum.
They even fired the woke writer that wanted Ma & Pa Kent to be black, and wanted to ship in POC extras, because they thought Vancouver wasn't diverse enough (ie. 3 rescue scenes in Asian cities, but Asians are "white adjacent" bs).
GOATed show, I’m still sad it’s ending.
@@windghost2 Ikr? I personally think it should've had at least 1 more season before it ended cause 5 seasons feels more complete than 4.
@@suryasingh9738 I agree. It also should've been a big season too. But I'm gonna enjoy season 4.
@@windghost2 Yeah, hopefully they give the characters a good sendoff. They have definitely earned it.
Thank god you didn’t bring up CW’s version of Red Death since that’s technically a Batman variant even if it was batwoman in the show, the less said about that version the better.
Batman wasn’t even in the cw
Exactly why would Batman-related shows without him🤦🏽♂️
@@mikaelwilson8049 arrowverse was so bad Batman wasn’t even in it the only good show is Superman & Lois the cw needs to end cause it garbage
If you count Kevin Conroy's cameo as Bruce Wayne I meannnnn-
@@ccelite3782 marvel milks spider man & x men and dc their not their scaling back Batman & Superman so other characters like green arrow can have love in like dawn of dc
Yeah he was. He was called Oliver Queen
I literally forgot the Batman "Batsuit" had breasts... ain't that interesting?
Best accurate tv Bat-Suit: BATMAN ‘66.
I'm still waiting for the day we get a good live action Batman TV show in the post modern age. I am not talking about Gotham cause it was barely a Batman show.
@@suryasingh9738 I was hoping GOTHAM would a live action version of Greg Rucka’s “Gotham Central”. No such luck.
@@waynebrooks880 It was a good show, but it had one major issue: it wasn't a Batman show without Bruce as Batman for the majority of it.
Never forget Superman and Lois Batwoman almost got a crossover but was canned because of the pandemic. Given how the CW is probably would have been the red kryptonite episode where Batwoman gets to beat up and lecture (society) through a rage fueled Superman
The Flash more like The Tras….waste of time.
Your video just popped into my feed and I am subscribing
I love the arrowverse, despite it's many many flaws, but yeah they treated Batman so badly here. Gotham even had a problem with it. Yeah they reverted Ollie who was supposed to get out of Batmans shadow only to give him his villains. Well Prometheus and Slade are everyone villains now, but to give Ra's Al Ghul and Talia, villians that are so vital to Batman is just insane.
Honestly I'm glad the CW got Superman right after he was failed in the movies for so long.
Yeah I still have to watch Titans and see what happens.
Let's be honest. There was never a Batman in CW
Ryan Wilder was a better Batwoman than Ruby Rose but… that’s not saying much. I think the actress did the best she could with the writing she was given
Well we didnt ever get CW's Batman, so that video is pointless af.
Dude i loved the first seasons of flash but i rewatched and just hated iris so much
Gotham had a bad batsuit but one of the better on-screen portrayals of Bruce Wayne. Titans however fumbled hard having the perfect man for the role of Alfred miscast.
one of my favorite parts of the Batwoman tv show came at the near the end of season 2? when a rogue Kate Kane got access to the Batcave when Batwoman was looking for her, and they showed Kate going in to old parts of the Batcave that no one had seen in the tv show yet, and there were old rooms with cobwebs and maps and things that Batman used and in one room, after Kate leaves, the camera pans to an old shelf with cobwebs and it shows an old cowl sitting on a shelf, that was probably the creepiest coolest scene in tv , let alone for this tv show.
I’m not gonna lie to you. I want another multiverse crossover because I'm tired of the disrespect a lot of good shows get! So many of the DCTV shows took place in their own separate universes and probably could've expanded but didn't. Either because of depressing circumstances or because the creators just didn't want to. And then are DCTV shows, especially during the Arrowverse run, that avoided the connectivity of other shows to earn their popularity instead of relying on another show to do that. And/or avoiding muddying up the timeline.
And that's great. But deep down, some fans just want to see their favorites interact even if they're not in the same universe. And they want to see it happen before it ends...and then most of these shows get cancelled before their time. What's the point of standing out when the network still treats you like shit?
The way I see it, every character from every live action DC property (movie, show, audio series,etc) team up to save the multiverse...AGAIN!
I never read the comics, but I know COIE had sequels.
They can include everybody from Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman, Reeves/Routh Superman (they're the same character and you can't convince me otherwise), David Mazouz's Batman from Gotham, Seg-El from the Krypton TV show who was supposed to show up for COIE but schedules got in the way. The Titans, Doom Patrol, Smallville Superman, Naomi because the actress wanted to crossover with the Flash and Superman. Jay Garrick because Eric Wallace being Eric Wallace, he didn't care to explain why Jay Garrick is on Earth Prime when Oliver made a rule as the Spectre that two doppelgangers can't coexist in the same universe (ie Beth from Batwoman). They could've just said Jay Garrick came from Earth 2 where Stargirl takes place but no! That's how he and the JSA from the show are part of the crossover. And I didn't watch Titans (or Doom Patrol or Gotham Knights or anything with Swamp Thing in the title) but I saw a clip that Beast Boy met Stargirl when he traveled the multiverse. That could work to bring the Titans in. And you what? As poorly received as Gotham Knights was, the actors deserve a piece of the pie.
And then it ends with most of the shows retconned in the same universe: all of the Arrowverse, Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman, Titans, Doom Patrol, Krypton, Swamp Thing 2019, Stargirl, Naomi, Powerless and Superman and Lois! It'd be funny if Smallville and Gotham were retconned in the same universe. But in all seriousness, maybe the 90s Swamp Thing shows (haven't watched but I researched that there was an animated show and live action show at the same time, either or both) could be on Smallville's Earth since I don't think the comic continuation introduced him yet.
They could do this either on Superman and Lois but knowing the creators, they probably just want to focus on finishing their storylines more than anything else. Smallville has had a revival in the works for years now which will be animated for some reason but still. Speaking of animation, there's also the Crisis on Infinite Earths movie trilogy but who knows if the writers or artists will include ANY live action properties anyway? I'd love it if it was just its' own thing as a miniseries with better writing, VFX and what have you.
In the future, they can always come back to this universe for whatever project the same way the DCAU returns once in a while
damn that’s a lot of reading
In this shows defense.
They went into the show saying they wanted to show a lesbian superhero. Thats it.
It’s why they chose BatWoman and why the show was NOT a TV version of Batman. But more a drama about a Lesbian hero.
But the funny thing is When Ruby Rose left. They were given a perfect opportunity to reset the show. Allow Meagan Tandy’s character take over. She could have been beaten up and exhausted trying to be a Gotham PD Officer and a member of that security agency she already worked for. All in an effort to save Gotham with a missing BatWoman
They honestly should have made the core arc of Batwoman’s season one just be about solving the mystery of Bruce’s disappearance. It felt like they were all gung-ho to make a bat show but not sure what to make it about.
Only good thing that came out of Gotham Knights was the Court of Owls costumes and Clue Master.
I happened to really like Batwoman, however I did hate the fact that Ruby Rose left the role in season 2.
Recently watched Invincible Season 2. Ngl, got CW vibes with the non-stop character moping and relationship drama.
I find it a huge shame that the actor they picked for Bruce Wayne on the Batwoman show seemed pretty good but didn't do anything as Batman.
Alr I’m sorry fan but no. You can’t call the cw out with Batman since Warner never ever let any tv touch Batman only in certain ways but never fully so no cw could’ve never used Batman. Wonder Woman I have no idea idk if they ever tried to but they couldn’t use her.
I don't mean to ignore the whole video, but that clip of Anthony Starr, as Homelander,being lifted into the air, is great. I've never seen it before.
But yeah, CW definitely fumbled their DC projects towards the end of that era, Arrow and the Flash were great, but I feel Arrow kind of ran its course a while before it actually ended, and Flash was just too inconsistent and fumbled that last season, from what I've seen of it. I keep meaning to get into Superman and Lois as people have said that's the best show by far and I'm about 3 or 4 episodes in but just stopped watching, not due to losing interest but I just had other things that I wanted to watch or just forget to watch it.
Even when the Flash was bad, Grant Gustin was great as Barry (literally the only reason I kept watching the show at Season 7 was to see where his story went before it ended). Stephen Amell was THE Green Arrow, sure he had a bad season and a half but other than that most of them were either great, good, or just average.
@@suryasingh9738 I can't agree with you more. Gustin was great as Flash and is even open to portraying him again or, at the very least, working with James Gunn and, to be fair, all the actors in that show were great, it was just the writing wasn't.
Arrow was much the same. Actors were great, just poor writing at the end. However, I feel like the Green Arrow in that universe was technically Batman due to his dark and brooding nature. Whereas other versions of Green Arrow tend to be more upbeat, I guess you could say a more upbeat Batman. Regardless, the original show/seasons were just great, and I miss them terribly.
@@Foxster_13 I miss them too, they were some of THE best parts of my childhood and teen years. I was one of the few people that supported Olicity later on after it slowly grew on me. Reverse Flash, Grodd, Captain Cold, Heatwave, Weather Wizard II, Trickster, Zoom, King Shark, Mirror Master (Just needed a better script), Savitar (he grew on me after a rewatch of Season 3), and Bloodwork were the greatest bad guys on the show. If it wasn't for Grant Gustin as the Flash, I never would've been interested in his comics. I really do feel grateful to have seen both these versions of the Green Arrow and The Flash for 7+ years and a decade respectively.
was a weird experience every time i watched the crossover events having not seen 1 episode of the batwoman show
I can tell it must be bad just from watching her there
One of the real big sins for me in Batwoman; is it's portrayal of Luke Fox.
Yeah really love how in the comics luke is the cool badass muscle boy and has a flying batsuit but in Batwoman he’s a spineless nerd and even the ai version of his dad installed in the suit says he aint ready to use the suit 😂
In the 60s we got the Adam west show and I have often wondered if that show has some sort of influence over how we have never been able to have a proper modern live action tv series about Batman. I certainly think that this is quite possible. However whether or not they don’t want a true Batman show, they really should stop doing these strange and embarrassing side projects which truly do more harm than good for the character’s reputation!
I can pinpoint the moment everyone’s opinions on the CW turned. Everyone I saw loved the CW… until Crisis on Infinite Earths. Then they disrespected Kevin Conroy’s Batman, and nobody liked it.
That is when the quality of the Arrowverse took a GIANT dip leaving the Flash as the last man standing.
I feel so bad on how they treated kevin's batman at cw and the suicide squad game. He deserved better.
I think green arrow would've been better if it was a Batman show.
Like they did really just make him Batman.
*WB's Bat-Embargo intensifies*
Wasn't the main plot of Arrow that Oliver kills people? & Isn't Batman whole deal that Bruce doesn't?
I would say nice try but I would be Lying
@@ArcTrooperRod-269actually he kinda was just Batman but he killed people not saying that’s what green arrow is I’m saying that’s what cw green arrow was 😂 only appeared at night, uses gadgets, has an oracle type character, many sidekick’s, deathstroke as one of his villains and some Batman villains too 😂 CW said “if we can’t make a Batman tv show we’ll make green arrow act like him”
@@ineedit1772 Deathstroke first appereance was on a Teen Titans book, & He fought Green Arrow WAY BEFORE meeting Batman in the comics, But nice try, Tourist
@@ArcTrooperRod-269 oh wow I didn’t know deathstroke was a teen titans villain it’s not like slade is robin’s nemesis in the teen titans cartoon. You’re an idiot of course slade is a titans villain but less and less is he fighting the titans and more batman, Batman Arkham origins and knight, zack snyders justice league. Slowly deathstroke is becoming more known as a Batman villain than a titans villain not saying he is a Batman villain but he might as well be cuz last time deathstroke had a notable fight with titans outside of comics was with DCAU teen titans like forever ago meanwhile everyone knows that boss fight with deathstroke in arkham origins and is like oh yeah that’s a batman villain he’s not but he is literally the opposite of the titans but everyone goes yeah he can put Batman on the ropes in a fair fight he’s a Batman villain
Don't forget what they did to Red Death... oh God that was horrible
The CW Arrowverse turned out to be so bland, cringe, subpar and overall uninspiring which is why I do not go back to them at all.
But Batwoman really takes the top spot as being one of the worst shows and does a huge disservice to the Batman mythos.
Now, now... Don't be racist and fixate on the black Batwoman. Don't ever leave out or allude to the white chick. Javicia Leslie actually salvaged what little ratings that show had while it was led by Ruby Rose. I remember the drama cycle of this show very well. From TUG, Yellowflash, Nerdrotic, etc, bashing on this show 2-3 times a day.
The Fandom Menace are the most annoying toxic pieces of shit. They do nothing but complain and are so predictable in their statements that it’s not even criticism it’s just blatant lies and misinformation to get attention. 🤬 huhhhh! It’s nice to know that people like the Fandom Initiative are dedicated to exposing and debunking their videos. Their not popular enough to make a difference but it’s nice to know that their are people who are tired of the system promoting their behaviour and giving them more attention, and will face scrutiny by the fans of those channels and will be level headed.
The Fandom Menace are the most annoying toxic pieces of shit. They do nothing but complain and are so predictable in their statements that it’s not even criticism it’s just blatant lies and misinformation to get attention. 🤬 huhhhh! It’s nice to know that people like the Fandom Initiative are dedicated to exposing and debunking their videos. Their not popular enough to make a difference but it’s nice to know that their are people who are tired of the system promoting their behaviour and giving them more attention, and will face scrutiny by the fans of those channels and will be level headed.
The Fandom Menace are the most annoying toxic pieces of shit. They do nothing but complain and are so predictable in their statements that it’s not even criticism it’s just blatant lies and misinformation to get attention. 🤬 huhhhh! It’s nice to know that people like the Fandom Initiative are dedicated to exposing and debunking their videos. Their not popular enough to make a difference but it’s nice to know that their are people who are tired of the system promoting their behaviour and giving them more attention, and will face scrutiny by the fans of those channels and will be level headed.
Yeah but the show became woke like not tryna sound like an incel who says anything with a black character is woke I’m black I would never say that, but season 2 became about police brutality for no reason like and it’s worse because then it became about police brutalizing black with Luke getting shot and then getting framed and Javicia Leslie is a good actresses but the character she played Ryan she was a uppity spoiled brat the literally guilt tripped one of the people who she stole the batsuit from because she said Batwoman can’t kill Alice and she was like “do you love your dead mom because Alice killed her so if you don’t let me kill her that means you and i can go through you like paper so move out my way” and she got away with it at least with ruby rose everyone would rub it in her face that she sucked and was an idiot before she got away with the stupid stuff she did, also I’m pretty sure the guy your calling racist is black and your calling him racist because he’s criticizing a bad character please for the love of god please just stop using the word racist if you don’t know what it means I’m begging you. Also one last thing pretty sure the show was hardly any better when Javicia joined like if season one was a 1/5 season 2-3 was like a 2/5 still bad but hardly any better
Funny thing… After taking some time to think about it, I think Kevin Conroy as an evil Batman could have worked if they had changed one thing: Make this Batman one of the villains working with the Anti-Monitor! Conroy was excited to play an evil version of this character, but they didn’t do anything with that concept! Heck, they could have even taken the opportunity to have Batwoman and Batman Beyond team up to take down the evil Batman!
And they could have brought in Will Friedle as Batman Beyond as some fun fanservice.
Let's be real. We know why they chose batwoman, they put in the trailer, they did it for brownie points since batwoman is a lesbian.
But worse of all is that they butchered Kane reducing her to a steritype of her sexuality. Sure batwoman maybe want rub some carpet but where is the good and bad characteristics of her military background? command skill? Respect for what batman represent or even not hating man just because?
Now that you mentioned it, why her being gay got her kicked out of the military? What year is it the 70s? because it’s meant to be in are time. She could’ve had brought that to court.
@@AnvilPictures
Don't it got her kicked from in in comics, she was actually had a relative decent experience om her tours, she just disagreed with the top brass and got with a honorable discharge, then she became batwoman.
In the show? Brownie points, because "military bad".
@@MrRobot-0 it’s poor writing like that which causes channels like the Fandom Menace to have more leverage with their audience. That being “Woke bad, gay bad, strong women bad!” Just blatant racism and bigotry that the algorithm on UA-cam doesn’t see as bad because the viewership is high.
@@AnvilPictures
Eh, honestly it's a messy situation with a lot of hipocrisy on both sides.
Channels like the fandom meanece do have a point but they have no intrest in offering solutions and just want you to get angrier, but the other camp would definitely label any criticism as "racist" "sexist" and "homophobic" because they are also wanting a moral crusade.
🤷♂️
That's USA's hyperpolarized partizan hellscape for you.
@@MrRobot-0 I agree with you. But most people are not willing to negotiate that or consider it. It’s just, agh, the most important thing in film and television is to make incredible stories or entertainment. But the whole WOKE thing is the whole Them argument. Whose them? It’s a blanket statement used to justify their own beliefs and bias without coming off as being a bigot. But even when it’s so obvious that it’s hateful it creates a false narrative that spirals out of control. They say Wokeness is destroying our film and media! But it’s not, sure perhaps the writers are doing a piss poor job but that’s on them not the people that they try to represent. The only people who are truly destroying media is the bigots and liars who create a nonsense narrative that makes no sense. Do I believe everyone has an agenda yes but that’s a no brainer the difference is, is which one causes the most harm. I’m someone who doesn’t care about who’s right or wrong I just care about being a decent human being to those who are genuinely good and not being an absolute jackass.
I know some people who are big fans of Batwoman and were upset when it was cancelled at Season 3. Would you or anyone else be interested in having a conversation with them? And I'm not talking about a argument or long debate but just an expression of each other's opinions and give both sides a better understanding of each other
This makes me glad I jumped off the Arrowverse bandwagon before Kevin Conroy's appearance.
Should really be calling these shows the Berlanti DC shows. Smallville was on CW and obviously great but that’s because it was before Berlanti. Gotham had no Berlanti connection where as Titans did.
Smallville has cringey moments.
I haven't watched Smallville so I don't care.
@@ii-mp1spwho asked?
The only thing I remember being good on the C.W was supernatural, and I don't even remember if it was that channel or not. Honestly if you watch that channel and expect quality contents I don't have much hope for you.
yea, it was CW but even Supernstural started getting bad in the later seasons when they put the Winchesters in their own Bibleverse & started killing gods & going in/out of heaven constantly.
Oh man, is Batwoman now old enough to have people that grew up with the show? Jesus. -
“You still think he’s a myth?”
“🗣️Y E A H !”
They just keep throwing up garbage. DC has never maintained a good image because of the loose licensing. Now they keep “killing off” Batman. My hope is they will never give the rights to these half baked writers again. Great video btw! Speaking fax
Half of the reason why I kept up with CW for as long as I did was exactly BECAUSE of the Bat-Embargo. You just know if they were permitted to have Batman and Batman's rogue gallery on the CW, it would absolutely DOMINATE every show that's airing. I loved how the CW managed to delve more into the more unexplored and more obscure characters and stories instead of having the Green Arrow, Batman and the Flash deal with the Joker every 3-4 weeks.
If Batman characters were allowed on the CW, there would have never BEEN an Arrow TV show and probably no other show could have possible spun off from the Batman CW TV show, because no other character would capture the audience's interest enough to spin off from one of the most over-exposed properties in modern media. Oh, was that a Barry Allen cameo on your weekly Batman episode? Who cares when the next week's episode is teasing the re-re-re-re-return of the Joker, but wait, now the Joker is buffed up on Venom and he cut his nuts off to show how TRULY unhinged he is. Who cares about a Flash TV show when Eunuch Joker is on the table!?
As cool and popular as Batman is, that popularity and draw is also an all-consuming rot that pretty much killed the DC animation department in the 2010s. There would have simply been no chance for a CW universe to even exist, it would just be the CW Batman and a bunch of cameos, a lot how Smallville worked out.
I'm even a little glad that characters like Batman and Wonder Woman didn't appear on the CW series.
Well, just look at the politicized melodrama they turned Arrow, Flash and Supergirl into in a few seasons, it's scary to imagine what they would turn Bruce and Diana into.
Batman ALREADY had his CW-Esque show, IT'S CALLED GOTHAM
You make up, miss 🤡
@@ArcTrooperRod-269 Gotham was far better than any CW show.
@@ii-mp1sp Says the guy who unironically thinks Reverse Flash is the archenemy of Batman 🤣
All I know, is the Batman Costume they used, was Horrible.
What world do we live in where Batman killing the Joker is a bad thing?
The world where he
-kills him off screen
-only him and no other villains
-immediately disappeared after doing it
-broke his no kill rule for justified reason
@@ineedit1772 Tbf, Joker has been overused. Although you are right they should've at least showed Batman killing him in a flashback.
@@suryasingh9738 yeah joker has been overused but so has Harley Quinn and she’s just as dangerous as him but she doesn’t get the death penalty kinda sus
@@ineedit1772 Ik why they let Harley off so easy compared to Joker and it's not cause he manipulated her otherwise DC would not have given her this level of attention. She even k*lled off Arkham Batman by shooting him like he was a dog for fuck's sake.
@@suryasingh9738 We don't talk about that cutscene
Well personally I'm thankful. We've got enough Batman and versions of him for an entire century, and it's only been 24 years
thanks for making this video, even if you don't like the tv shows, i have seen maybe one other channel even mention these shows, so i like that you are least mentioning them
Even the best live action superhero TV shows are doomed to fail. You can only do so much without being repetitive. Add in bad writing an an unusually high amount of woke, you will just annoy your audience till they give up and leave.
there was mention of Clark meeting a young bruce wayne at some point during Smallville, it was when he met the Flash, and his friend Chloe said there was a wondrous woman out there i think during the show
Fun fact, There aren't just 1 main Batman on the arrowverse, THERE ARE 2, the one from Earth 1 & the one from Earth 38
We know he exists there aswell beacuse Superman mentions having a good Super Hero friend on Gotham & the Supergirl cast describe him as a big dark dude who is millionare & dresses like a Bat,
& that version isn't better since he basically didn't make ANYTHING neither when the earth was invaded by aliens NEITHER DURING THE CRISIS WHEN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE WAS BEING ANNIHILATE
0:09 bro zoom was just something else
6:04 James Gunn, PLEASE TAKE NOTES!!!!!!
Still hurts that both Kevin’s first live action roll as Batman and last roll as Arkham Batman has his playing a crazy batman who kills people
Let me get this straight Superman is able to have many appearances in the Arrowverse on top of having his own show but they couldn't even bother to have an Arrowverse version of Batman be a major character?! What kind of logic is that?
Because He wasn't being used in the Movies, remember the Headless Superman Cameos in the DCEU?
Not to mentioning Wanrer is more gatekeeper with bats than with Sups
Gatekeeping Batman is a good thing since he's there only money maker
@@jordandennis6794they are also gatekeeping Wonder Woman for some reason too lol 😂 and she isn’t even their moneymaker
You can get a glimpse of how a CW version of Bruce would look like. Just look to Oliver Queen. The show during its start leaned heavily on Batman and essentially began as a Batman clone.
Also, not to mention that they made Arrow because they couldn't get the rights to making a Batman show in the first place.
Whether the writers were mad at DC for not getting rights to the Batman character, or just trying to ride the popularity of the Dark Knight, Arrow gives off this vibe at certain times where you can really feel the writers wish they were writing Batman-related media instead.
Similar to Batman, when CW announced Superman and Lois, I was completely horrified and knew that they were gonna butcher Superman after the treatment they gave him in the CW. Boy was I wrong. Superman and Lois became one of the greatest superman adaptations of all time and Tyler Hoechlin and Bitsie Tulloch have become my closest Clark Kent and Lois Lane
There's only been many live action Batman based tv shows and one actually had him front and center, the Adam West tv series, unfortunately I heard the live action TV rights are still with Fox (under Disney) and WB isn't optioning to get those rights back aside from requiring the 66 tv and movie rights, which is reason to why we never had another Batman based TV series in live action.
There was one though, an origin series about Bruce Wayne that was later shifted into Smallville instead, the Batman based series that followed was Birds of Prey that I watched.
Batman under the CW (and by extention, Berlanti's production) would've been hell, I Didn't watch all of Gotham Knights due to how laughable that series looked.
We can all say what we can about Gotham's version of early Batman, but I do say Gotham has better production design, as well as costume design (not all of them are winners, though), and a better scope and tone of the city of Gotham that's on par with the movies (excluding The Dark Knight, Batwoman, Birds of Prey 2020, Gotham Knights), plus it helps that the series had a different production team and airs on a network people ACTUALLY watch.
There's only one more Batman based show that's coming and that's the Penguin series set in Matt Reeves's The Batman universe, luckily enough, with a much different team and looks like it'll be on par with Gotham on a much bigger scale.
And The CW is basically dead, so no need to make things for there anymore, DC tv for Fox however, but they should've never defuncted The WB witch had a much better asthethic than the sterile CW.
The Arrowverse was a waste of time. Just like the Snyderverse
It was good at first. And I would argue that Arrow was the best arrow verse show. Flash has SO MANY bad characters and bad seasons, Arrow was always at least decent, and it was consistent.
@@eobardthawn6903 I'd still rather have a definitive DC cinematic universe than any Arrowverse show
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp I rather just read the comics. The DCEU was shit just like the Arrowverse. They ruined Bats character pretty bad. Making him the Punisher lmao.
@eobardthawn6903 yeah, I agree I'm buying comics for my physical collection. However, with a cinematic universe, there was an opportunity to take the best parts of the comics and put it together into a definitive version without all the extra baggage. Without the confusing continuity. Taking iconic stories and adapting them. If they had been adapting their most popular characters, then it would affect other media in a good way. Like maybe we could've gotten a Justice League game instead a suicide squad game where we kill the Justice League.
Having watched the entirety of the Arrowverse plus Gotham Knights, all of the current stuff of Superman & Lois and all of Stargirl too, my opinion is the Arrowverse shows start pretty good. However, A lot of them, like The Flash & Legends of Tomorrow, got worse the longer they went on. I'd give exceptions to Stargirl and Superman & Lois personally.
They F’d up the red death as well
I didn't hate this show, as it was pretty entertaining. The only thing I didn't really like was the Batman aspect, because he's always a huge problem unless he's in a cartoon or on the big screen handled by an award winning director. It's a waste of time to try to put him on the small screen cause it's always going to look cheap. I liked the cast but was really disappointed when Kate Kane's replacement actress turned out to be only temporary. But yeah, the writing from the get-go was weird because it started off having their main character insulting Batman. I mean, who approved that?! The show was dead on arrival and never recovered.
If I was around I would have told them they were already going to have some issues due to just sexism, but _"Please Don't Insult the Character your character is based off of!"_ lol
Homie brought back trauma I intentionally forgot with that Kevin Conroy fiasco and now it. As now that will forever be his only live action appearance connected to the character…… If I wasn’t also a Star Wars fan, so I had the same exact pain with the original SW Trinity being cannabalized with the death of Han Solo and the passing of Carrie Fisher so now there’s absolutely no way we’ll ever see those characters done right by their original actors…… 😠🤬🤯 I wouldn’t know how to cope
Ive been feening for one of these channels to cover something CW related
Bottom line The CW DCEU was at it's high with Arrow and the first few seasons of Flash....Most everything after that was pure TRASH!...That all goes with the...Woke Decade of Entertainment...In all it's Glory🤣🤣🤣
Supergirl was the wokest, Legends slowly devolved into that category, Flash got there eventually (by sidelining Barry for some characters people don't like), and don't even get me started on Black Lightning.
Arrow seemed to be the only show that at least didn't delve to far into it. When there was a political issue like gun ctrl in 5x13, they made it feel more like a debate with Rene being pro gun and Curtis being anti-gun.
I have a better theory of why Batman left Gotham. You see after the death of Jason Todd, Bruce became so racked with guilt over not only the death of his partner but that he he let a child into his crusade and got him killed. This in turn led him to the ultimate decision “Kill Joker” but of course him being the Caped Crusader knew that he could never do it so he gathered his rogues gallery: Two-Face, Scarecrow, Black Mask,Penguin, Poison Ivy, Riddler, Clayface, Killer Croc, Mister Freeze, and even Firefly for the ultimate plan of a joint team up between all of them in taking the Joker down. Of course most of them didn’t believe him but after some discussion and Batman reveling his secret identity as billionaire Bruce Wayne to them as a show of good faith they all agreed that Joker had to go but they wouldn’t do it without some sort of compensation that being that Bruce had to leave Gotham forever. I know what your thinking why couldn’t they just kill him? Because if they did Batman would become a martyr and pretty soon every guy in town would be running around calling themselves Batman and Batboy and Batperson. But if Batman left Gotham his reputation would be tarnished and the need for him would wain. Agreeing to this Bruce and the villains took the Joker down. Bruce left Gotham never to return which is why Gotham is the way it is.
To be fair it's hard to do a batman TV show frl
Oh yeah i remember when they butchered batwoman
Well the show wasn't called batman on the 1st place that was the end of the show 😂😂😂
i liked the Batwoman and Gotham Knights tv shows, in the Batwoman tv show, i think that was the first time we saw the batcave being under Wayne tower, and that he kept journals, that was later shown also in the movie, the Batman, with Robert Pattinson, which might have taken place before the Batwoman tv show, and if you watched Gotham Knights, that might have shown what happened to Batman, i don't know if the Gotham Knights takes place before Batwoman, but that would explain why Bruce is missing, the Court of Owls got him, i think they are the next villain in the next Robert Pattinson movie?
I just wish that Titians had teased Batman as this terrifying wraith that you never see. Like characters just walk into rooms littered with beaten up goon and a note "was in the area, didnt want to intrude. Dinner thursday?? - Love Dad"
and thats it, never seen but ever there.
creepypasta spiderman
@@Jaideep-r2t emontially distant feral furry dad
I kinda liked titans but honestly I wished batman/bruce had never showed up aside from maybe flashbacks, he always seemed so off
I think the problem is that Green Arrow was already very similar to Batman.
So having the actual Batman would take away from the interest in Arrow.
Ahh so good to see someone talk abt how bad they did Batman on the cw . I get the legal reasons but for all that, they should’ve just left the character alone
If I got a nickel for every time Kevin Conroy’s Batman got disrespected outside of his media I’d have two nickels, which is two times too many.
In retrospect, all of the Arrowverse sucked and should be relegated to the trash can DC Multiverse
To be fair the Gotham suit one was a rush job and they werent given enough time to make an actual suit so they had to work quick
Arrow was Batman, always thought he was their Batman. About half of Arrows stories removed Batman and put Arrow in the role instead. In his universe he WAS the Batman, Green Arrow was never a big driver of stories in DC usually. Before I got tired of the soap opera nature of the CW stories, I chalked it up to just a different universe. Can't think of a way to put Batman in that reality, Arrow had taken to much from the character of Batman. If he was ever in the CW he would never be the Batman we know, he couldn't be that ever there. Basically Arrow would have to mentor Batman, reversing Green Arrows and Batman's roles. I had already stopped watching by the time Batwoman was a show. Still there is no way in context , probably, of the Arrow verse Batman wouldn't suck.
Noooo I never knew they did that to the best Batman!! His one live action appearance and he’s the villain, that’s so much disrespect.
To be fair....I can't say about "BatWoman" or "Arrow" or "SuperGirl" versions of BatMan... But in TITANS the guy playing Bruce Wayne was awesome. He absolutely nailed the idea of a "getting older" but still in peak condition BatMan.
My problem with Oliver in the CW
Is he acts to much like Batman
He was to serious that it was kinda comical
Oliver is supposed to be MCU tony in a way
The way he acts tbh
That's what I'm saying. He was too ooo serious.
@@damainyeager3820 yeah, hell even Bats has his light moments, it’s rare for him to smile but he does lol
I enjoyed Arrow and the rest of the universe for what it was. But it’s so hard to defend when you’re not a comic book fan. And I didn’t grow up with Batman except for The Brave and The Bold cartoon. But everyone kept comparing Arrow to Batman so much that I decided to watch Gotham. Still didn’t get it but at least later on, I started watching the movies.
Oh, you just NOT DARE to quote MCU Tony Stark, A Terrible adaptation who shares 0 Resemblence with OG Iron Man & who was only a Self Insert of the actor who plays him 😡
@@TheSsjJoker Bozo, You're whole argument falls apart when CW ARROW FOUGHT his archnemesis Merlyn MULTPLE TIMES, while MCU "Tony Stark" NEVER EVEN MET THE MANDARIN 🤣