Nora saw Thawne as a father/friend due to him helping her with her powers and Iris knew that. But all Barry saw was the man who killed his mother, I don't blame him.
@@KuroAceVTI’m not, Thawne practically is the reason why Barry became The Flash in the first place, practically, everything that happened to Barry, both directly and indirectly leads back to Eobard Thawne, and I feel Iris was incapable to feel what Barry felt, that his own daughter, his own flesh and blood was helping Eobard, even after she learnt that Eobard killed her grandmother, she still went to him, and Iris just decided not see the situation how Barry saw it, knowing that Eobard is part of her reason her almost fiancée Eddie Thawne died indirectly
Problems with Iris: 1. The writers took a shortcut by having Barry grow up in the same house with her as pseudo siblings. The audience was denied the opportunity of seeing them meet for the first time, get to know each other, and slowly get together. When Iris finally starts to entertain the idea of dating Barry in season 2, she makes it sound like she is doing it out of obligation for the future or destiny rather than something that she really wants. 2. The CW sucks as writing romantic relationships. They make it all about the relationship and the characters as individuals suffer. 3. In season 4 she was thrust into the role of team leader undeservedly when there were more qualified people to fill that role. Like Cisco, who Barry specifically named at the end of season 3. Her now infamous line of "We are the Flash" didn't help. 4. Season 5, she chastises Wells for investigating Nora when it was proven that he was right to and chastises Barry for sending Nora back to the future where she should have been all along. She then tells Barry that he is wrong for not trusting Nora because of Thawne who killed his mother. Making her very unlikable.
I half disagree with 5. Sending Nora back to the future was extremely dumb because it doesn't solve the issue and leaves Nora to continue being manipulated by thawn. I think both characters were dumb there.
@@mr.protagonist5639 Nora is remaining in the past by her own will while Barry and Iris are allowing it. Barry and Iris, who should know quite well by now, screwing with time comes back to bite you. You would think that after Flashpoint Barry would realize what a danger it is and send Nora back right away. In fact, he did want to earlier in the season. He just caved in to Iris because SHE wanted Nora to stay for her own satisfaction. Whether Nora would continue to be manipulated by Thawne or not is irrelevant. She does NOT belong in the past. Barry was RIGHT to send Nora back after finding out about Thawne. After traveling back in time with Barry earlier in the season and seeing what Thawne did to Barry's mother and father, she should already know you can't trust Thawne.
@@mr.protagonist5639 although him doing so meant she couldn't continue to relay information to Thawne. Cuz Barry couldn't guarantee what she was telling him.
@@dkirby9052 ok but what's to stop her from just coming back on her own later on? There's nothing that Barry could do to keep her in the future, so Barry should keep her close and try an get her to see things his way. That way thawn loses a pawn and gains another enemy. Did she actually see what happened to Barry's mother and that thawn was the cause of it. Because I genuinely don't remember
@@mr.protagonist5639 Well the problem is that Nora is written to have the maturity of a 10 year old. So unfortunately, I can believe that she would absolutely just go back to the past and endanger the whole timeline some more. She still does not belong in the past. Whatever Barry needs to do to keep her in her own time that is what he needs to do. She and Barry were outside Barry's house when he was explaining what happened that night. Not to mention in that same episode they found Wells/Thawne with season 2 Barry cuffed in the vault. That should have been enough to convince someone with sense that Thawne is not someone to trust. Because Nora does not have any sense, Barry needs to drill it into her head that you can't trust Thawne. THEN keep her in her own time. There are better alternatives to resolving this situation than just being stupid.
yeah, when I first started watching the flash I was 10 and even at that young of an age I still thought that Barry had more chemistry with Caitlin than Iris.
@@The_Notorious_N.O.E. honestly imo it doesn't matter who plays iris be it Danielle panabaker or Candice Patton if she's written the same way, we won't like her .
i hated that too, but at the same time she was RIGHT! barry never shoulda gave up on nora,but barry was also right bc nora didnt know what she was really doing
For me I think the main reason why I hated the CW Iris west, was there was times she was very self centered and selfish. When Barry was going through something, she didn't really try to understand him. Sometimes got angry at him for no reason, when he needs her the most. I LOVED patty, she was way more carrying and loved him more. I would've loved to see a universe where Barry and patty actually became a thing.
crazy thing is CW actually got it right one time, with Felicity. as much as I freaking HATED Laurel, just as much I loved Felicity. she was caring, but also she IS a strong woman, she calls Oliver out on his bullshit without coming off as egotistical, she is accomplished on her own without it feeling like she pushes Oliver out of the spotlight. I don't know how they managed to write a great love interest, it is definitely a fluke in CW shows
I often felt like Iris was on a different show that crossed over with Flash. This hungry reporter with a cop dad and scientist brother reports on supernatural events in her city. Fine. Iris? Go do YOUR show and let us watch the Flash! Her selfishness was us being forced to sit thru the Iris West show.
Patty Spivot's abrupt exit was the result of a behind the scenes spat between Patty's actress and the then showrunner. We were supposed to get more of her and Barry's relationship.
@@adeletellez5749 Yup, he left after s4 when he was exposed on 2018 & then Eric Wallace came to the party, like Arbiter said to Chief in halo 3: *WE CHANGE A VILLAIN FOR ANOTHER*
@@ArcTrooper269I mean how could you be surprised it’s Hollywood literally all of them of pedos makes me wonder if cloned grant an now he’s in broadway in Hollywood
Barry had chemistry with literally every single other female character beside Iris. Caitlin would've made for a better love interest than iris. Barry and Iris don't match at all they have nothing in common and there personalities don't really work off eachother. It's not the actors fault it's just the fact there not given anything to work with. When Iris is part of the team she feels so incredibly out of place because she doesn't have anything to contribute. Cisco's the tech and computer guy, Caitlin's the medic, Harry is the scientist and Joe is the cop dad mentor. What does Iris bring to the table ,what even makes her qualified to lead the team? She's just a bland Lois Lane copy.
I hate hate HATE ! The way cw writers treat the main love interest i swear to god they just think “oh main character needs an issue lets make love interest act like a bitch for very little reason
That's how CW does it.Once the couple they invest in get together,they just shove the main love interest down our throats and make the show more about the love interest and the couple while pushing everyone to the side
It felt weird to me that they made them kind of like Step Siblings. Sure you could fall in love with someone you grew up with but they call the same person dad 🤢
Joe pretty much adopted Barry after everything that happened with his parents. The part where Iris was practically like a sister was really weird. I would've gone for SnowBarry any day. Girl may have had issues, but at least she wasn't like an adoptive sister. I could see a version of Barry and Dr Snow working together and falling for each other over time. Barry even helping her through the loss of her first boyfriend Firestorm (?) as a friend at first. Ya know? Having Iris be the interest is just too weird given the circumstances.
Joe never adopted Barry he was his guardian. This is only ever brought up to “prove” why Barry and iris shouldn’t be together when it literally isn’t true
@@chelseaperry9131 dude raised him from when his father went to prison. Dude basically adopted him no matter the legal bullshit. And now here a quote from barry “You’re just the man who kept me fed and in clothes, who sat beside my bed at night because I was afraid of the dark, helped me with my homework. You taught me how to drive and shave. You dropped me off at college. Sounds a lot like a dad to me.” Like shit was weird from the get go. Iris could of just not been his daughter.
She's the epitome of a "female supporting character" MC: Girl, LITERLY, stay here... i can not stress enough the fact that if you just stay here, the world will be saved. Countless lives will be ruined, i will fucking die or make a sacrifice, every known multiverse will suffer if you move.. please just stay here.. and i can save the day in a second, move and itll be a month long agony, stay here.. please.. just stay here..." Female supporting character: "I see, interesting..... so lemme just go do what you said will fuck everything up because i myself have some internal issue where i feel im useless and i want to help even tho me "helping" will ruin us all :D " MC: ............ " alright, ill just suffer and inevitably marry you anyways, even if im armless for the rest of my life cause of your decisions, you so cute babe"
The biggest problem with Iris West is that she was a side character being forced into a main character role. She was quite literally written to be in a secondary/support role! Now whether this was intentional or not, I don’t know, but let’s look at the reasons. She was oblivious to the Flash’s identity for almost the entirety of season 1. Almost every other series regular knew the Flash’s identity. She worked as a coffee barista with aspirations to become a news reporter. Barry was forensic scientist, Cisco was a tech wizard, Caitlyn was a doctor, Harrison Wells was the founder and director of Star Labs (and created the particle accellerator), and Joe was a cop. Each of these characters had the skills to play key roles on the team. Iris did not. Iris’ occupation and skillset (at least as written) did not lend itself to contributing to such an operation. Each of the other characters had a developed, genuine relationship/friendship with Barry. Wells’ was his mentor, Joe was his father figure, and Cisco & Caitlin he developed relationships with as trusted colleagues and close friends. Iris was the awkward crush he pined over while she was engaged to another guy. Wells, Joe, Cisco, & Caitlin could all have genuine conversations with Barry and support him after he became the Flash. Barry’s interactions with Iris could only ever be superficial because he had to maintain a facade around her because of both his secret identity and his secret crush on her. As you can see, in every respect Iris was not set-up to be a main character. The cruel irony is she was wasn’t written to be a good secondary character either! Almost everytime she was on screen, I felt the writers didn’t know what to do with her. If, say, they had written her to learn about Barry’s transformation from the start and better developed her desire to become a reporter (or bothered developing it all instead of letting it sputter out), she could have had character driven plot points such as, say, subtley influencing the Flash’s narrative in the news cycle to create a positive perception for him and fed information to the team that benefitted them in their crime fighting endeavors, which could have been her own small contribution to the team. Also, if she had known Barry’s identity from the beginning, they could have had some honest and heartfelt conversations about their own relationship and Barry’s feelings for her while she was engaged to Eddie. Maybe come to an understanding about it. Then I maybe I could accept her being a believable love interest and compelling side character. As it stands, thats not the Iris West got. What we got instead was an annoying side character shoehorned into scenes and roles she had no business being in. If the producers intent *was* to make Iris a compelling main character with an integral role to show, they utterly failed on that front.
I agree with this 💯 she wasn’t a main character till season and she didn’t do the transition well at all like as u said the other main characters are very important to the story & bring something to the team
They were trying SO HARD to replicate the Lois Lane Red-Blue Blur storyline from Smallville where Lois doesn't know Clark's secret, but becomes enamored with this Super Speed superhero around town while reporting on him at the Daily Planet. The thing is, that happened after Lois had been on the show for three or four seasons, and had developed as her own character with an established relationship with Clark. So, not only was the Iris as "aspiring journalist" pining over "The Streak" felt like a poor carbon copy of another CW show's storyline, but Iris herself wasn't a developed character to feel as fleshed out as Lois was in that storyline.
I really hate how the people in this show pushed their hate for Wally West SO HARD to the point that the character NEVER APPEARS OR GETS ANY MENTION, Despite the inmense amount of reboots, time travel & different universe shinenigans the show sufferen in its 9 SEASON run-time Instead they decided to adapt Wallace West, a guy who at that point only existed for what? 4 years? & This Wallace isn't even comic acurate because they LITTERALLY STOLE his personality & character arc from Arrow's Roy Harper, except that Roy was ACTUALLY LIKEABLE
I didn’t mind Wally in this show they just never knew what to do with his character. Flash S1 and 2 is the best for me . & Wally West in Young Justice I like a lot
On Patty, her actress revealed several years after her departure that her contract was terminated (implicitly by now-disgraced showrunner Andrew Kreisberg) because she’d gotten a role on another show... Thing is, Shantel was willing to negotiate her time so she could at least finish her contract (which was Season 2 if I’m recalling right), but the creator she didn’t name was really angry and just… let her go. So that’s why she was abruptly written out (and Joe had no policing partner after that). On Caitlin, it’s pretty clear that the writers had no idea what to do with her after the initial Killer Frost story (that and her early series ill-fated romances with Ronnie and then Hunter Zolomon); why did they consistently retcon the nature of her powers. Given how good Danielle and Grant’s chemistry was, a scenario in which they got together could honestly have forwarded them both… with or without Iris dying at that.
that's the wild part about this show; I preferred EVERY version of Iris out there in the multiverse MORE than her Earth-1 counterpart! Shoot, even Flashpoint Iris was better than Earth-1 Iris...
@@OurKindofEntertainmentI would agree with that because an Earth 2 she was more straightforward and tough or had some skin to herself that makes sense And she had character buildup hell even her reverse your version of Iris was slightly better it kills me is very new that wasn't his iris because she can't cook😂
Barry and Caitlin had far more chemistry together and would have made a much better couple. Their relationship felt so much more natural than anything we got with Barry and Iris, with anything beyond them being friends just feeling forced. Barry and Caitlin had a leg up from the very start, what with Caitlin being Barry’s doctor and caretaker while he was in a coma and also being closely involved during his transformation into a metahuman. It’s clear that they cared for each other and Caitlin having a rather personal stake in Barry’s wellbeing after losing Ronnie to the particle accelerator explosion, the seeds of a deeper relationship had been planted from the beginning.
That's because Barry x Caitlin was the original ship being built. But since felicity and Oliver's ship made people so aggravated, CW execs assumed it was due to straying from the source material. So they forced the iris Barry pairing anyway and turned Caitlin in to a sad girl who pines after men like Barry Allen as her silver medals and made iris 80× more insufferable
@@brandonr3072 I’ve seen this mentioned a few times and it would make sense with how Barry and Caitlin were written for most of season one. Granted I’ve never looked that much for it, but has there been mention of Barry and Caitlin being endgame from the writers or production team? I gave up on the show after season 4 and never got much into the interviews and other outside material before then.
@Gatekeeper201 you did yourself a favor. The flash becomes a side character in his own show and Caitlin pretty much gets written out for a new personality, but yeah, the reason she falls for zoom and malfoy is because they're similar to Barry. Even though the writers couldn't have their way, they still wanted to show everyone the pairing they really wanted.
@@Gatekeeper201i don't think there's been an official mention that they were endgame, but strong subtext in favor of that in the show. 1. Barry is the person who brings caitlin back to life after ronnie's "death" in the particle accelerator. He makes her smile and enjoy life again, with cisco mentioning she only got as mad as she did with barry with ronnie. You also have her drunk scene where she asks barry to put her in her pyjamas and says he could've taken a look at her if he wanted. So it's clear that there was potential from caitlin's part, with the show implying that barry was at the same level to her as ronnie was. 2. When barry is depressed in the beginning of season 2, the one person who he decides to watch wells' will with is caitlin, showing that he too feels the strong emotional bond between them.
Iris dying beyond setting tone and establishing stakes gives Barry the opportunity for character development, internal struggles. Barry didn't really grow as a character ever towards the end of the show, he was just in a loop of learning the same things again and again and again. They had such an easy way to develop him further and said, "nah"
Three Problems: The Writers Made Her Annoying Post S3 Barry had more chemistry with every woman they put him with except Iris (Patty, Linda, Caitlyn) They made her his sister
Yeah it's like I was saying in my own personal opinion Iris is just a glorified journalist who isn't even good at her own job so in the end she's no help and is a burden and season 4 pissed me off the most because she started taking charge like she actually had any kind of authority AT ALL like mate you are not needed here go away
exactly! iris is surrounded by a group of geniuses who are way smarter than her, and yet she wants to get in on it and pretended to be super smart like they are. not sure why she became leader baffles me?
@@chelseaperry9131yes we will. Because that's fucking stupid. There was an entire season of flash before iris knew who barry was. Iris is about as useful in the show as black widow would be in a beard-growing competition.
@@gamecitysavior2910 if they wrote iris better she would’ve been amazing. But sometimes she was just plain selfish and it looked like she didn’t care about barry tbh. Barry’s line where he says that runs for her; that there is no flash without iris, doesn’t make sense when she is rude all the time.
even felicity would’ve been better let’s be real, her and Barry had legit chemistry together(which i believe is actually mentioned, and the show poked fun at the idea a few times) but there were also scenes that made them seem like awkward teens who haven’t really been in many relationships because up to that point neither of them really had been, and it was more of a charming awkwardness, where it’s kinda cute cuz you can tell they both like each other a little, not like Iris and Barry who are awkward together because one is engaged c and the other is secretly in love, which makes the awkwardness feel a little more creepy/pathetic, cuz it makes Barry look like an incel who can’t just accept when people he likes don’t like him back which is NOT Barry Allen
@gamecitysavior2910 hell no.it's not about being black.for example,look at joe or other characters like Dig.This is only about Iris who is annoying af
Candice Patton isnt a bad actor, but when I think of Iris West, I dont think soft emotional support damsel in distress. The CW Iris West is probably closer to the MCU Pepper Potts, but DC Iris West should probably be closer to Lois Lane, and THAT is a HUGE difference.
The CW flash show was my first true intro to the flash lore. Before then I just saw the flash as the guy who runs fast on the Justice League. So imagine how weird it seemed to me that Barry was pinning after his unofficial adopted sister who had a fiancé, like dude move on go date that Caitlin girl who’s single and doesn’t have a sibling-like relationship with you. Poor Eddy killed himself so that Iris and Barry can be together 😂
Technically, Eddy killed himself to erase Eobard from the timeline (which didn't work because Eobard is Flash's Joker, you'll never kill him off), but he did hope Barry would take care of Iris.
@@NotMyRealName6 yeah that was Eddy’s thinking but when it didn’t work it seems like the show just killed him off just to have Barry and Iris get together
You should have seen the animated Version of Flash in the Justice League Show. Even though there are not many Episodes focusing only on Flash, this Episodes are always a Banger and he is voiced by none other then Smallvilles Lex Luthor.
It was like the more push back WestAllen got, the more the writer(s) would shove it down our throats... Especially, after 'WE Are The Flash' became a thing in Season 4!
ikr that's like tryna say that Lois lane and Clark kent ARE Superman like, it just doesn't work and neither does this that line is a disgrace for any character
@@GoId3nWrId Exactly, the best part is Lois IS her own character apart from Superman! Does she get in over her head from time to time? Yes, but at the same time Lane has her own 'lane' she thrives in rather than being forced to be Superman's gal pal smh
@@Ian-rg4yr It truly sucks they didn't get together. Especially because the comics and pretty much a lot of other green arrow media always either implies or shows they get together. Now, for Flash Iris was fine, my issue was he got with Linda. 😂
@@jemmellpyron2527 I wouldn't count Julian as a love interest in my personal opinion since the dude had only one season to go off of in their chemistry
The worst part about having Iris around was how the show had to nerf down the other characters to make her relevant in most storylines. What pretty much broke my brain was when Iris told Barry, "You are not the Flash Barry, we are." Marrying a superhero, sleeping with a superhero; does not make you a superhero!
My problem with her is that outta every love interest Barry had throughout the show, this was like the last one I'd think he'd end up with. You got Kaitlyn, Patty, the Dr Light girl, all that shared a much more profound connection in my opinion but then the Cw was like, remember this girl from season 1? Yeah, he's gonna end up with her now. It feels like he had the least amount of connection with her than others. That's my problem with her.
I think we can all agree on that, You can hire the best actor or actress for the role but if they're given a shitty storyline then it pretty much wastes they're whole potential cuz I believe if Iris was given better story material people wouldn't be hating her as much besides the ignorant race baiters that don't like this Iris cuz she's black most of the time is literally just bad writers and some of these writers need to be fired
You ARE aware you're NOT hiring "the best actor for the job" if your primary motivation is to cast for diversity? The problem isn't that she is black, the problem is that the CHARACTER, is NOT black, so her being race changed is a clear indication they are more interested in scoring diversity points over representing the actual character. Lo and behold, she JUST so happens to be one of the least liked characters in the entire show. She's handed extreme importance for no reason, she never earns it, and she literally steals the Flash's identity with that we are the flash bullshit, and that's just the beginning. The people that say "the character's race doesn't matter" are ALWAYS the ones screaming the loudest that race swapping characters is an improvement as well. News flash, BLACK PEOPLE hate when this happens, because they recognize it for what it is. Black face. You take an established white character, and you steal their name and put them in black face, then you have a well liked black character that everyone has to like otherwise it's because you're racist. Was there any effort to make a NEW black character? No. Is there any effort to make the race swapped character GOOD? No, not needed, you can just scream racism when people don't like this obviously bad character. Just take a white one that already exists, slap some black in there, and voila, job's done. THIS is the crux of the race swapping thing. It's NOT racism, people saying that are idiot race baiters that are falling for the trap. They say it's racism, so you're not allowed to oppose the change. The change that is lazy, racist, and results in people who are NOT the best for the job being handed it regardless because they fit the APPEARANCE. Case and point, see basically anything Marvel has made the last few years. Race swapping is a symptom, not THE problem. And people who can't connect the race swapped characters strangely being constantly BAD with the motivations BEHIND the race swap in the first place, need to take a step back and actually look at the picture, not the red herring of "but racism!" Since I know it's bloody hard for you people to think, let me put it into perspective. Race swapping white characters is a symptom, it in and of itself is not a problem, it can even be done correctly, see Nick Fury. It however is a SIGNAL of a certain type of approach and ideology, one which is harmful to media. In the same way, wearing a pointy white hood on your head, isn't itself a problem, however it's a signal of a certain type of ideology which is generally harmful and distasteful. Do you get it now, or are you going to persist with your "you're just racist" nonsense?
it's because iris is nothing like Her character at all, her race is somewhat part of that Also the fact that she's not red headed anymore & Her terrible personality I feel like people aren't Racist for that, I'd have The same issue if they Made cyborg white it's that her character isn't like her comic Book counterpart at all it's not racism.
Regarding Iris's race in the CW Flash, Berlanti already established with the casting that his IW will be a black woman, hence giving the West family the African - American treatment (Joe being an amalgamation of Ira West and the cop who raises Barry after his dad's arrest) Wally being the same with taking elements from red head Wally and Ace West. I think Candice did a phenomenal job as Iris in the show, it was the writing that treated her harshly/ making her out to be an annoying bish (which in many occasions she was). My issue isn't necessarily with her, but with her stans, who are constantly making fun of and harassing Danielle Panabaker, because she and Candice apparently didn't get along. But there were some very vocal haters of Candice who would throw racist insults towards her and she felt really hurt by them and even contemplated leaving after season 2 and that was so not okay.
Stans and shippers were so fucking weird regarding the actresses. It didn't need to be that serious for them. But I should have expected it given how bad some Arrow fans were regarding Felicity.
You brought up some good points here and I want to capitalize on something that has always been painfully obvious to me in this show (and probably all through CW) "Drama in relationships misses the meaning" and without it it's just wholesome all the time and could bore people. The reason why Iris and Barry's drama stands out is because it's very obviously forced, because without it nothing interesting at all happens, asides from the "you never have time for me" trope or the occasional bad guy to come in between them they have no reason for any natural interesting drama, so their relationship is quite barebones. (which is fine if that sort of things satisfies you) Patty on the other hand is already heavily involved with meta humans, like Cisco said she would fit in team Flash. They could have even geared her up with star labs equipment to help Barry out in the field, which could have led to some drama down the road. Overall even Patty and Barry would succumb to forced drama. They would have been quite the simple "partner in crime" type relationship. Fun. And then we have Felicity. Felicity and Barry could possibly work well because they're basically in the same boat, they both crushed on someone that (at the time) did not feel the same way/were afraid to confess their feelings, bonding over that. Oh and they're both nerds. Neat. The long distance relationship thing could naturally bring a bit of drama and interesting scenarios but would eventually lead to CW forcing more drama. I like how you described Felicity and Barry basically being the Caitlin and Barry lite. Perfect segue to.. Caitlin and Barry. A lot of people don't make this parallel but the duo was done in the Flash before. 1990s The Flash, Barry and Christina. Tina was a star labs scientist just like Caitlin who studied Barry and fell for him, (Barry vice versa) after her husband died. (aka Ronnie) Which has all crossed paths to the CW universe. She quite literally is Earth 1 Caitlin married to Earth 1 Barry. Two brilliant minds working together as a team is always great, but there was little to no drama between them. Something Barry and Caitlin would easily fix. #1 With everything you mentioned in the video plus her struggles to let go of Ronnie, his struggles getting over Iris, they compliment each others growth and development. #2 The drama is natural because she could develop a more overprotective behavior towards him after the many times he's nearly died, due to her Ronnie PTSD. Which sparks decisions that easily lead to more natural drama and Killer Frost is literally Barry's weakness, ice. They wouldn't just be two brilliant minds, but also a metahuman duo. AND she could slow down speedsters, like Thawn. Imagine what they could do if they put their minds together during a battle? CW wouldn't have to force anything, the drama is all there already. Oh and they're *also* both nerds. Savitar and killer Frost just double down on the idea that no matter what Caitlin and Barry work perfectly. Even as villains. TL;DR Typical CW drama writing sucks and they had great drama opportunities in the palm of their hands but ignored it. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
You hit the nail on the head with CW shows having trouble writing love interests, and I feel sad because having Iris being set up in the earlier seasons as an aspiring reporter and her blog in reporting on the mysterious speedster and giving him good press. Later on in discovering Barry's identity I feel they could have had obstacles, not personal drama. I love seeing couples who are happy together and the only drama in their lives is what is thrown at them and how they get through it while building each other up and learning from each other (examples I can think of are Rick and Evy from the Mummy 1999 and its sequel, Hiccup and Astrid from HTTYD, Bianca and Bernard from Rescuers) I had never thought about Iris dying before but it's an interesting thought with the writing and the storyline they were setting up to speedsters not being gods, and could have set up some interesting plot points. - Wally, Barry and Joe bond more and Wally steps up as Kid Flash to help Barry through his grief and determination not to become like Savitor/Evil Barry. - Caitlin becomes overprotective further of Barry because she wants to help him how he helped her with losing Ronnie, and what she went through with Jay/Zoom in season 2. - Alternate world Iris still showing up from time to time. Some like Earth 2 married to non-speedster Barry, maybe one where that world lost Barry and she's alone or married Eddie. - Then eventually Caitlin and Barry realise their romantic feelings for each other but feel guilty and so try to repress them till they finally let themselves be happy with each other. Then the future seasons have the obstacles of Killer Frost and other dynamics as you said. As you said it's not based on a particular comic it's in its own world, and if they paired Green Arrow with Felicity (I think she's an original created character?) instead of long comic running established Black Canary because of their chemistry and relationship/dynamic with each other... why not have this universe be a world where Barry had Iris but lost her, and then found new love?
The thing with him and Catlin to me feels like two good friends... But I loved Patty for him. Basically, anyone would have been better than his step sister.
My issue was always the fact they'd make Iris be a jerk or make bad decisions and the story would frame it like she was in the right. The actor has nothing to do with it. It was bad writing.
The actor does have something to do with it. It's a show. She's a character. That requires acting. If she were just so good at acting you'd be saying "The actor is REALLY good and makes me wanna like her so much, but the writing is just a trash fire." She's not nearly that charismatic though, most of the time she's barely acting honestly. She was explicitly hired for that role for being black, that's the nature of race swapping. They didn't audition hundreds of actors and a black woman just so happened to be the best for the job, they explicitly wanted to change this character into a black character, because of diversity and so when people don't like her they can just call them racist. The writing keeps saying she's right and doesn't punish her bad decisions for the same reason they changed her into a black character. Race swapping is the symptom, the bad writing is the disease. They CAN'T punish Iris for being shitty, because then they would be racist for attacking a black character. Race swapped characters routinely don't face any actual consequences for peril because they need to be mary sues, everything just has to work out for them because of the racist rules of writing "minority" characters. Things they do not earn are handed to them, they can't be removed from the story for any reason so they have ultimate plot armor, they need to be written as girl bosses, so their personalities are unbearable. Anyone who looks at shows deliberately taking a white character and making them black and touts the "Race doesn't matter" rhetoric is falling for the bullshit of "You just don't like her cause you're racist!". Meanwhile literally everyone on this video is saying the same thing without actually saying it. The girl who played Patty should've been Iris. The actors have good chemistry, she's liked way more despite having so much less screen time, and she's a much better written character. But they couldn't hire the best person for the job, because they had to hire for diversity. Plus if they make Iris black, they can then race swap the entire West family, that makes Wally West, a very popular WHITE character, now black, therefore you must like him and they don't actually have to write him well. Also all of Barry's children get to be black as well, so that's MORE diversity, and it doesn't matter how awful their writing is. But, heh, you LOVE Impulse, surely. And how he and Nora act like actual fucking children despite being adults, right? Right? You love them! Remember, if you don't you're racist, so you love them right? Ignoring the roots of the problem don't solve the problem.
I appreciate your video and all the people who left comments. I was recently watching a reactor watch season 1 Flash for the first time and all the commenters were hating on Iris and spoiling future episodes. They kept saying things like "Iris will become more annoying and more unbearable in future". I didn't mind Iris when I watched the Flash so I was kind of curious why there's so much passionate and negative feedback around this character. I know that dislike was projected onto the actor, Candice, as well. She talked about the racism and hate she got throughout the entire show and I feel bad for her and what the writers/creators did with her character.
The Problem i had with Iris was how the writing of the character changed once iris and Barry got together., like in the first season, their was something about iris that felt so light and positive (which was pretty much how the tone of the first season was) her character felt very joyful and full of wonder, which made you understand why barry liked her so much. But then once she found out he was the flash and then they got together and she became involved with team flash, the character then switched into being moody and dramatic and it felt like the dynamic between barry and iris became like an old married couple. And the character just felt really stale and obnoxious. but i think the big thing really is just how it felt like the character or the actor wasn't having fun, it was always this serious annoyed expression on her face like the light was taken from her eyes. and i don't wanna just bash her this happened to Barry and many of the characters. Like Barry just seemed more depressed as seasons went by where the only time he lightened up was when he teamed up with Arrow because they had to make him comedic to balance Olivers justifiable seriousness. And then theirs cisco who seemed to be having so much fun in earlier seasons to where by the time he leaves team flash, it gives very little impact for how quiet and depressed the character was acting. But anyway i don't know if its the writers or the acting just fell down, but it really damaged a lot of characters especially Iris.
although if you think about it, they all have reasons for not being as happy as they were, Cisco found out that before Barry went back in time Dante never died, and he’s been kidnapped multiple times, almost died a couple times, and also literally watched one of his best friends run into a black hole with no idea if he’d survive, not to mention the fact he never wanted powers and got them anyway, anyone would be terrified of that, Iris went from Barista, to journalist to essentially flash’s felicity, just worse cuz she doesn’t have any of the skills felicity has, not to mention has watched her husband die, more than once, Barry too he’s been tortured by some of these villains specifically Thawne, anyone would start acting more depressed in their shoes, the only thing i don’t like is that it happened to Barry too, Barry is supposed to be incorruptible without mind control, he is supposed to be happy go lucky no matter what has happened in his past
As someone who enjoyed the first few seasons of the Flash, and tried sticking around until the end, Iris definitely fell off around season 4. She was definitely at her worst from season 4 onward, which was disappointing since I actually really liked her in the earlier seasons. Personally, I think your idea about Iris dying in season 3 was good, I just think it should’ve been Patty and not Iris. It was clear that WestAllen was end game, so I think it would have been really impactful to see Patty (someone many people enjoyed; me included) die in season 3. It could have also been something Iris and Barry could connect on, since Iris lost Eddie in season 1. We could have seen Iris help Barry deal with the loss of Patty, which would have helped with the WestAllen relationship as it moved forward. But, I loved Barry and Caitlin as well, and I think they would have made a lot of sense as a couple. Anyway, this was honestly a really good video, you should talk about the Flash more. And sorry for making this comment so long.
Honestly I agree. The relationship would not have felt rushed. I stayed with flash until the very end. I started to love the show a whole lot less in season 5 where I couldn't tolerate some of the story lines.
What I liked about Patty was that she wasn't written as an obstacle for Barry s d Iris. Barry was never shown pinning for Iris during their relationship, and Iris was never shown being jealous, in typical "will they, won't they?" fashion.
They couldn't have killed her in season 3 because people would complain about it comparing it to arrow season 4 when they foreshadowed a character dying which ended up being Laurel.
Imma be real, when they retconned Iris West to be Barry's step sister I checked out on thier relationship. That stuff has always been weird to me. That and as you said, they made her way more important to solving crime than she ever was in the comics. And that's not to say she hasn't got one over on s bad guy or two, but it was no where near ,Barry can't function unless Iris tells him what to do. Or the team for that matter, but that's does another video 😂
The hatred to the character was overblown, but the writers really fumbled the character. The idea of Barry growing with her ended up reducing people's potential support for the couple due to perceiving them as almost siblings. Also, there was too little time to develop her skills and her transition to the team wasn't really well done. She was a decent fighter and strategist, but that's not as clearly outlined like the roles of other initial Team Flash members. In Seasons 3, 4 and 5 she was too unreasonable at times in a way that couldn't be defended, like when she berated Barry for leaving her in the Speed Force without her input despite that not being viable or running defense for Thawne when Nora was revealed to work with him even if Thawne was a war criminal at that point. Her journalism was set aside for no reason, and when it is given some relevance, her role in the team takes more precedence and the main employees there join the team. Despite putting her in severe traumas, the show does too little to address them.
People who hate the actor/actress for the script and role they are given, really need to get their selves together. I you can hate a character but not somebody who is just doing their job, unless they're simply bad at acting, but hate is still out of the ordinary and just straight up rude
I understand your points. I've heard about what some people feel towards her, however I never saw the later seasons, haven't even finished season two. I can only talk about her in the first few seasons and I don't mind her. It is the writing that can be a big issue with where you take the characters and story. Definitely talk more about The Flash
The immediate and most obvious (they even pointed this out in the first episode to get it out of the way) and that’s: they were basically siblings? Like Y’know? I thought this was always werid.
My biggest complaint with season one, which I still think is the best thing The CW has ever done, is that they had the great “Crazy For You” episode that showed off Barry and Caitlin’s chemistry, had them say they were moving on from Iris and Ronnie respectively, and implied that they were into each other. Then immediately followed that with the Firestorm arc and Caitlin obsessing over Ronnie again, and then Barry obsessing over Iris again right after that
So glad I found this channel, because I am a HUGE comic book nerd, and your personality seems very level headed and chill. I watched this shows first 2 seasons as a kid, and I liked the show, but because it's a CW show there's always gonna be messy writing in the show lol. I think the main highlight from The Flash CW has GOTTA BE the casting and acting. Everyone fit their roles, and they performed their characters really well. Great channel, and I absolutely smashed that sub button lmao
Honestly this other timeline's Iris starting pissing me off in 2017. Six months after the other me I saved (Barry), defeated Savitar. First she started get mad when Cisco told everyone he tried to save Barry, but then, when he 's actually back, she gets mad at him for leaving her... But Dr. Finkel actually helped me and my Iris a little in my timeline.
I think the only time an actor/actress should be given criticism for their role in an adaption, is either when they talk major bs about the original stories or act like they're making the story better cause they're in a popular medium. The Snow White remake actress and Little Mermaid remake actress are examples of this, where they either attacked the source material or acted like their mere addition was making the story better. An example of unwarranted criticism was the casting of Starfire in Titans, since to my knowledge the actress never placed herself on a pedestal. Though she was a red flag of how poorly they would adapt the Teen Titans characters.
Idk I feel like it should be the opposite. An actor’s job is to act. Outside of their job, they can feel whatever way they want about their work/project.
@@imreadyt0g0h0me Well I can agree to an extent as they have the freedom of speech and expression. However, if they're gonna complain about the original story that they're in an adaptation of, it shows how they weren't qualified for the role. It just makes them look like an entitled child and ultimately gives the adaption red flags of lower quality. Now if an actor/actress genuinely enjoys the material, then you're bound to get a better performance as they want to honor the material. This is compared to a spiteful and money driven actor/actress, who'll be bound to phone it in for a paycheck and or attack the fans for not praising their performance.
@@imreadyt0g0h0me The same can be said for the egotistical actor/actress who acts like their presence betters the adaption. A big difference is that the egotistical actor/actress is over hyping their performance and giving people unrealistic expectations for the adaption. All in all, there's a reason that companies usually try to restrict their actors/actresses from speaking on the films/shows, cause it rarely ends well for the product.
@@MikeFireheart I think that in the Snow White example you provided, Rachel was “bad-mouthing” the original, not the work she was in. Should there be a bare minimum amount of respect towards the orginal? Yes. Are people allowed to identify flaws within the original, and see how they can change these for the new adaptation? Also yes. There are tons of people who don’t like their job, or their coworkers, but at the end of the day still have to get the job done. As long as they do that, they’ll have their job. Also there are tons of actors and directors that are “hard to work with” but are still able to produce a good final product.
@@imreadyt0g0h0me Tons? Care to give a couple examples that I can research to back your claims? I'm not gonna act like there isn't some people who were able to make a decent product while hating the source material. There's a reason why I never said it's a 100% guarantee, it's just far more likely to fail than actually succeed in the end. I genuinely can't think of any movies/shows where the actors/actresses hated the source material and still made a good product.
When Iris "died" I really felt that, but she comes back next episoode I was like really? All this lead up to nothing, to then make her the leader of the team just repeating the formula. For me, Patty, Julian and Ralph not staying made the show worst, these characters not only had good chemistry but the situations should they have stayed would have been for the better, no doubt
For me the biggest problem was her refusing to understand Barry's POV regarding nora, it could have been done better by her being angry with barry and not saying anything until the buble bursts showing that she knew barry is right but her motherly instincts not letting her accept that instead of them straight up fighting. Except for that i can get behind most of the things like we are the flash or her being the leader of team flash. What people forget is being the leader of team flash isn't a role of fame or honor its a role of responsibility that no one was ready to take we literally see Cisco create a ai barry so he doesn't have to take the role Cisco was never a leader material neither was caitlin that role was forced on iris which she took mainly because there was no one else to take it and because she needed to forget about barry and barry is a paragon of love he gets his motivation, his courage and his strength from his loved ones, we are the flash is the best motivation he could have and we doesn't just mean iris it means team flash
My problem is that this TTTTTHHHOT got a problem with Barry for anything he did “ Barry you ate the second toaster strudel in the freezer, you know how much that strudel meant to the flies waiting in the trash how could you do that you aren’t the man I thought you were I’m leaving ” ofc she didn’t actually say this but you get what I mean
When they force that whole why did you leave me Barry it was stupid like the moment you decided to be part of his life him being a superhero knowing the risk like lady you knew what you signed up for. I’m not saying she shouldn’t feel that way but for her to get up all in his face about him disappearing is like sweetheart there’s pros and cons wit being with a superhero.
The CW fans always hide behind the "you're just sexist and racist" card whenever anyone has legitimate and logical criticism against arguably the worst version of the character ever. It's not the actress's fault, she did the best with what they gave her. The writers just couldn't stop using the Mary Sue power boost every other episode to remind Barry that he HAS FUCKING SUPER POWERS. In the later seasons it's so much worse, the plot literally doesn't need the title character in a quarter of the episodes because they use other heroes, a gadget, or Iris just solved the problem because fucking reasons. The number of massive plot holes required to make so many episodes require Iris was just sad after a while. She's a fucking REPORTER and has almost never had powers in her decades of lore. Also the pseudo-incest was very weird and unnecessary. On top of the weird "forces" being like their kids for a few episodes, that entire plot was just to shoe-horn Iris in when the plot started to drift from being about her.
What you wrote wasn't racist. The people that are racist are the people that complain about the race swapping. You criticisms are not racist, though your understanding of incest is completely wrong.
I’m so glad to have come across this video. I have my issues with the CW’s Iris, but so many people disliked her for being black (to the point that Grant Gustin had to come defend her), that I (as a black woman) never felt comfortable saying anything against her publicly because it just opened my comments up for people like that 😭 (Crazy thing is they apparently only made her black because they made Wally black in the New 52 comics and were trying to match it up, both the Wallys even meet in canon and I feel like that would have been a cool plot line for explore but I digress. Wally got a lot of hate too.) It’s nice to see a video that discusses Iris as a character and not the color of her skin. While I don’t want her gone like everyone else, I do wish they had done better by her writing wise. She had so much potential if they pulled from the source material or just genuinely showed her some care when writing. I think the only reason she didn’t die is because that would close the door for Nora. (And Bart.) And because it’s canon to the comics or whatever but still. I don’t blame the actors, I blame the writers. How do have like a thousand blueprints and still fuck it up?
iris dying would have added some phenomenal parallels to ralph in season 4 when ralph basically died right in front of barry just as iris would've and how Barry was able to save him. in a way, getting closure for what happened to iris.
Great video man, For future videos my advice is to use footage in the background that relates to the character you're talking about (It was kinda weird hearing about Patty/Caitlin for minutes while seeing Iris and Barry 💀)
I agree with a lot of your points here and yes I also agree that the ending of the third season should have been finished with her death! However I also think that it’s worth stating that Felicity smoak and even Supergirl are also prime contenders for who Barry could’ve ended up with! While Snowbarry is still my number one ship, either of those two would be awesome! Also yes good job standing up for Patty Spivot! Also it’s ridiculous to say that Barry having a good future depends on Iris surviving! That’s really dumb! You do indeed make many good points here although I also will admit that for me I started disliking Iris in the second season way before season three started because she just felt out of place to me. Her story arcs were so dull and I just wanted to get passed them and check in on other characters! Snowbarry is the true best ship for sure although I’m also a huge Superflash fan and I definitely say that I love fanfics about either of those pairs!
Can we just appreciate Joe West being the best dad he can be for Barry. He didnt have too but he stepped up to the plate too Barry under his wing and treated him as if Barry was his own son. And the early seasons really showed that i kinda clocked out of the flash after like season 4 i believe so I dont know if he still did it but god Joe was one of my favorite people on the show.
I remember really not liking Iris during the first season. But it was about halfway through that season after Barry confesses his love for her and she still chooses to be with Eddie. It was the episode where he meets Linda. Early on in the episode, Iris calls Barry and says she needs help with an article shes writing. So Barry drops everything he's doing to go help her, only for her to tell him that Eddie's mom was in town and they decided to meet her for dinner. That scene made me realize that Iris sees Barry as an option, whereas he sees her as a priority. That should've been a clear indication for Barry to move on. At that point, I wouldn't have minded one bit if the show shifted gears and hooked Barry up with someone else (preferably Patty or Caitlin.) It also didn't help in the second season that it seemed that Iris only wanted to get with Barry out of obligation for the future or destiny and probably saw him as a consolation prize after Eddie died. It's similar to what actually happened in the first season of "Arrow." It was intended for Oliver and Laurel to be THE couple of the show. But like Iris, Laurel just came across as so unlikeable at the show's beginning. Then Felicity came along and the chemistry between her and Oliver was instant and obvious. So they decided to shift gears and make them the couple. It would've been intriguing to see Barry in a happy and healthy relationship with either Patty/Caitlin in the second season and beyond while Iris watches from the sidelines upset that Barry had moved on from her.
i thought barry and caitlin made for a better couple cuz of how they were written. the reason why barry and iris dont work is cuz the writers rushed their romance. S1 only barry was in live with iris and iris was with another dude. after he died the writers tried to make fans happy by sticking to the comics and just rushed iris falling for barry. what makes matters worse is the cw arrowverse was changing its structure. they started making the love interest so annoying, giving them powers, making them the leader of the team etc.
As a person who liked Barry and Iris as a couple and enjoyed seeing their scenes together. Your points are valid and they mirror some criticisms that I had about the series as it was airing. I like how you approached this topic and gave your opinions. 💕
Some really good points The idea of Patty being Barry love interest could of definitely worked however I think it’s would of been affected because in real life one of the producers had a problem with the actress and forced her to leave the show so that would of happened no matter what Caitlin is a really interesting idea for a love interest the idea of Barry falling in love with Caitlin would of worked out really well they could of shown Caitlin having nightmares of Ronnie dying only this time Barry is in Caitlin position and Caitlin is in Ronnies position and the blast hits her and she becomes killer frost and kills Barry and they shed wake up and Barry would ask her about her nightmares! They could of done a lot with Barry and Caitlin being together it’s fun to think about maybe we still could of gotten Bart and Nora but just played by different actors
Damn it, Caitlin and Barry literally meant to be together. I mean there was a true chemistry between them and even when they argue to each other you can feel the tension in the air. Can't understand why they forced Iris and Barry relationship. Here is the point, Iris never loved Barry, he loved The Flash. You can easily say that Iris has a jealousy on Barry because of his abilities and reputation. And the line "You're not the Flash, Barry. We are the Flash." was the exact proof of this. (Dude, he is your step-brother why not be proud of him instead of trying to "get" him? Gross...)
i 100% agree 7:40; if your going to write a character that is gonna be alive till the end, avoid putting them in situation where their odds of survival is 2% out of 100%,death is unavoidable. and yet you make it to where they survive with no concrete plan. reason "they are one of the main character". putting budget aside, even though it very impotent but the least you can do is give a reasoning that actually makes sense.
I think you were spot on, don't get me wrong, I liked her at first, but the moment she took, she took a leadership role with in the team she was arrogant and had no understanding for the sacrifices that was needed in her mind it was OK for everyone else to make those sacrifices but as soon it effects her life its all unfair like when as you said when barry gave himself to the speed force so no one else in the city/world wouldn't die her immediate response was why cant Jay take your place she was always me me me and how she threw all of Barry's heroic sacrifices back in his face trying to make him out to be the bad guy or how about when Nora teamed up with his No.1 enemy The Reverse Flash and Iris made out to be no big deal but will have to say I loved it when Barry puts her in her place like when Iris tells barry his irrational thinking and actions are wrong then barry throws it back by saying you should look in the mirror at least I didn't put a dampening chip in our daughter suppressing who she truly is That enough from me as I'm now ranting, lol
the future is pretty much guaranteed that if Iris died that Barry would fall into depression and the surviving time remnant would be neglected and become savitar, regardless of how much it doesn't sound like what team flash would do, it in a way already happened in the future, the only real way that they could've avoided it as I see it, is if they try really hard to avoid that future despite Iris's death, but by the sounds of it when Iris died, not anyone cared about what would happen next. the only reason I could see this changing is if someone from the future or past came to the present and made a difference, but I'm not sure if that could be someone of a different earth like supergirl though. This is my theory
The issue is that the gang are full of hypocrites :/ you’re right. They act like they’d care but it wouldn’t be shocking if they did a 180. I mean they willingly went and killed 3 people and tried killing another 2-3 and yet have the gall to act like they don’t kill and killing is bad.
After witnessing that future and learning that Savatar was a remnant of him Barry wouldn’t have created any remnants to fight Savitar. He could’ve just mourned the loss of Iris. No remnants, no fighting, no Savitar.
@@chaosrubix8750 did future flash ever find out who savitar was, because if he did that would mean it didn't change anything, if they don't confirm or deny it I'm going to assume it's an exact copy of the present
@@jagudragon9475 no that’s why Barry went into the future in the first place to find out who Savatar was and how to defeat him. He came back with Tracy Brand name that’s about it
As much as people don't like the CW Iris she couldn't have been replaced. She's Flashes Mary Jane. His Lois Lane. She's the girl that he ends up with every time. Making some random character or a platonic friend his one and only breaks the entire dynamic of the source material and series that is adapted from it.
Barry talked Caitlyn/killer frost down, when he let her out with the catch that she had to kill him. She couldn't and became Caitlyn again. I have a Playlist with one video for Barry/Caitlyn shipping fuel
(12:54) I agree. I will take it a step further and say it is insulting. Her job is to literally deal with meta-humans. It is like saying Joe should stay away for his safety even though he is a cop.
I have always been such a strong defender of the snowbarry ship. Everytime I see barry and caitlin interact I just imagine how much better they would be together than barry and iris. Because of how the writers set up barry and iris' relationship it felt so forced because it was supposed to be their "destiny." I always thought that was so stupid and I kept hoping that maybe the writers would somehow make barry and caitlin work out but they never did and it makes me so sad because it could've been so good :(
I think because it seemed like it was pushed for Barry to fall in love with Iris to be with her. Even though in the first season they made it seem like that Barry and Caitlin had more chemistry..
I think the big problem that iris faces, is she's meant to be the Mary Jane to Spider-Man. But in this case to the flash and I don't think it works out that way because even Mary Jane has more popularity but it wasn't until recently they gave her something to do like be a reporter role, then just copied on to Iris. At least, Patty was actually a trained cop and had some real credible resources to work with. Like he said in the video. I'm not saying iris didn't do anything to help in the show and she did eventually learn battle tactics on the field and battle experience. But I feel like Patty was far superior.
I totally agree with your points I said similar things so back when I’d watch the show. They just tried to make her character into something that never was gonna work out so i don’t blame Candace much in this situation. I watched every season and liked the show for what it was and how good season 1 and 2 were. Like you said once season 3 came around one of my biggest complaints was that the show never had any consequences or pay offs. I never thought about it at the time but I think letting Iris die woulda been a good move and open up so many more opportunities the show could have taken. The writers really messed the show up bad even beyond the Iris relationship
I agree 100% that she was very good in the first few seasons. And I still had zero problems with her staying alive after season 3. The problem is that she has the same issue as all the CW superhero show female leads, in that they have no idea what to do with them after a while. This happened with Green arrow, Smallville, and the other shows and one's not on CW. This stuff happens in a comics as well. This is why Spider-Man can never have a good relationship with Mary Jane. Writers don't know how to write those relationships in the comic book worlds. Very few of them get them right. What happened with Iris would have happened with any female you put as a lead next to Flash or any superhero on the CW.
As a black woman, her race swapped *IS* important because of *WHY* they changed her race. They race swapped to virtue signal. This is important because during Jim Crow, comics were not allowed to depict blacks as leads or hero’s, only sidekicks or villains. After that ban was lifted, a lot of legendary comics wrote new & original black heroes (Black Panther, Black Lightning, Falcon, John Stuart, Vixin, Mr Terrific, Steel, etc). This was their form of repentance & retribution for blacks, and they didn’t need to palette swap existing characters to do it because they didn’t want to just give “hand-me-downs” but something new, where the merits of the character is based on what they did vs what they looked like. Ironically, showing race doesn’t make you a better hero, but rather it just shows there are more hero’s out there then just white people. And allowing writers to have more freedom, letting draw what they wanted, when they wanted it. If studios & writers really cared, they would create new & original characters like they used to do. Besides, for race swapping to work, it also relies on the consumer caring strongly if a characters is of a certain race, ie; “I don’t like it because there where too many_*insert race*__ in the show”. Because either race doesn’t matter so we can write/draw anyone to be any race at any time (so we can turn black characters white), or race does matter and we have to make sure everyone is represented equally in every project (checking of a check list & meeting quotas, removing all personal agency) Or race matters to an extent, and people can freely pick and choose if they want to depict a race or not, but also holding them accountable for said depiction without restrictions (like how black superheroes got their start in comics)
To me the biggest issue was she is his sister Like for real her dad calls Barry his son and they were raised that closely together. I am amazed this is never addressed. If I was raised with someone and they and me had a sibling relationship then they said they were in love with me Id be like what??????
The childhood best friends to lovers troupe would be fine and acceptable..but there was no reason to have him taken in by Joe and raised by him! Its just wierd. Honestly having Barry be sent off to foster care or a relative and coming back years later and meeting Iris again would have made for better story telling anyway as we would see them reconnect and grow feelings for each other vs Iris just marrying her quasi adopted brother once her fiance bit the dust.
Caitlin all the way. On the topic of Felicity, I find her the best when she basically fawns over ever hot guy. She was most fun single and being like, “Oh no! Oliver is hot! … Barry is hot! … Ray Palmer is hot!” like almost the voice of the audience. I mean, I’m not into dudes but I have eyes… and I just thought her trying to hit on everyone and everyone hitting on her was the most fun. 🤷♀️ Also, Caitlin gets pretty wasted later on. There was some dichotomy when she was sharing the body with Frost, and then basically Frost became the only relevant one, and FROST dated… and Frost did this and that… and Caitlin died… and then Kionne or whatever? Seriously wtf? If Caitlin was with Barry, maybe they wouldn’t have forgotten she was ALSO A GENIUS and how much she helped Barry at first. I mean, Team Flash was basically Caitlin and Cisco guiding Barry for a good while… but at some point Caitlin basically wasn’t even a scientist anymore and was barely the medic. Like, c’mon. So wasted. The one thing I’ll say about Iris dying is… they would’ve just pulled the same crap they did with Black Canary. Remember Earth-2 Laurel? And honestly, I didn’t mind that. They did something interesting with her. The “good” Black Canary died (though, honestly, Laurel kinda sucked. It wasn’t until we got Dinah in like s6 or whatever that we had a truly good Black Canary, except I think Sara briefly was? But she’s best as White Canary, even if she used that name for like 3 episodes and just became “Sara” in Legends lmao)… and then evil Earth-2 Laurel reconnected with her father who showed her the love she never had or whatever, and she got redeemed and stuff… But if they pulled a multiverse Iris it would’ve been garbage. I mean, imo Arrow and Legends had the best writers, followed by Flash, but it was a huge step down in quality already. Nevermind the other shows lol. No way the Flash writers could’ve done anything decent nor different with Earth-2 Iris when Arrow already did that with Laurel. So either they would’ve had to kill Iris for good and never use a multiverse Iris, or at least not long-term… (maybe in something like Crisis we see an Earth-2 Iris WITH Earth-2 Barry)… or just pair Barry with his OTP Caitlin, anyway. Barry should’ve been like, “Iris is my sister. I want you to be my wife, Caitlin.” Because goddamn. He lived with her for like 15 years or something, and they hung out all the time even before Nora was killed. They’re siblings lol. And don’t get me wrong… I like the most popular xxx genre as much as the next guy… probably more than some, even… so it’s less of a problem for me… but when the chemistry is so much better with someone else, anyway? Why push that pair? The problematic one? 🤷♀️
Ngl, you had some points that sounded amazing(I don’t keep up with the Flash series anymore), but it’s pretty disrespectful to write off most, if not all, people who dislikes Irish being black as racist. I might not be one of them, but I can understand why ppl would be kinda frustrated that a character was altered for no other reason than seemingly brownie points for the audience(I’m okay with change if it actually matters/makes sense).
I think the change in race makes sense for having Barry and Iris raised together. They would feel much more like siblings if they're both white. It's easier to go "Oh yeah, they're not related" when Iris is black.
Justice for Linda! Sure she wasn't there long but I LOVED their chemistry and I was so angry when she got written off. Grant Gustin and Candice Patton had zero chemistry and I honestly think the writers forced their relationship BECAUSE Candice Patton is black. There would have been social media outrage calling the writers and TPTB at CW of being racist if they had killed off Iris or gave Barry a different long term/main Love Interest. Especially if his new LI was Caitlin or Patty. Which is why Linda would have been the best choice😉😄 I do also think they didn't want to break up the "iconic" Barry/Iris because they had decided on Arrow that the main (superior Arrowverse couple!) was the non comic-accurate Oliver/Felicity. Changing the comic accurate LI once they could get away with but I don't think they believed they could get away with it a 2nd time. Personally, I believe if they had gone with Linda Park-no I'm never letting it go!-it would have given the audience the definitive belief that the Arrowverse is an ADAPTATION or to put in comic book speak, another universe different from the comics storyline. Iris should have died in Season 3 and if they still wanted to do the Barry/Iris relationship there is no reason they couldn't have found a non-sister version of Iris in the multiverse to bring over. THAT would have been so interesting and maybe I wouldn't have the dropped the show halfway through season 5.
This is all new to me. As much as I love iris from the comics more, I like the CWs iris alot and pretty much like the show untill later seasons. 😂 I didn't know this option existed but thanks for letting me see the different side
I agree with the points you made. It felt like Iris's character was planned to die at the end of season 3, someone vetoed that at the very end, and from that point on in the series, no one knew what to do with her character. She was just constantly shoved into rolls that made no sense for her to be in.
My issues with Iris(CW) is that She’s just too involved in Barry’s flash life. And not just Involved in it but she goes out of her way to meddle with it. The whole Superhero x Civillian romance trope works because its two people so different finding some common ground and that common ground is comfy for them. And Said common ground is usually not related to neither of their Superheroism and their. Civillian duties. (I think of the scene where Spiderman and MJ in the comics where they watch The sunset on NY on top of a bridge.Peter and MJ are Two opposite ends in their personal and professional lives.but they bond over their shared love over their city and their seep connections with it.which makes them fall in love even more with each other) CW Barris doesn’t have that. It’s All about The Flash with the two of them which sucks because Iris takes the spot light from characters that were stablished way before her. While Barry is almost a non-factor in Iris personal life.(i don’t think we’ve seen Barry go to Iris work place or seen things that Iris Introduces him to.)
7:12 if they killed her they would have brought her back down the line anyways like they did in Arrow. These cw shows dont commit to these kinds of choices
I actually enjoyed CW Iris, though she was persistent and stubborn for better or worse, shes a pretty great girl boss, unlike other certain female characters she doesn't weaponize her gender to deflect or defend certain actions, she as a character tries to prove herself worthy of being useful to Barry, the team, and even the citizens of central city, I just see CW Iris as a general icon for a powerless somebody that's strong enough to help anyone, (and has incredible luck btw,) though she might have not had a grand impact like Joe, Cisco, or Eddie, the way she was introduced, and the many plot threads she was connected with, though confusing, she still seemed like an interesting variant in retrospect, (ps: if Iris died then Barry would've given up on life, we literally see what happens "after" iris died, Barry gives up, the team splits, and past Barry tries to bring them together after promising to save iris, and iris dying would completely convoluted the entire plot and story nutritive, and I don't care what anyone thinks, without iris I would've not been able to listen to the banger that is "Runnin home to you" from the musical episode, that shi was fire)
My most favourite love interest for Barry was always Kara, since the episode where Barry accidentaly got in her earth. I loved their every interaction, I felt of them as besties at first, but then I seen so much chemistry during crossover episodes, that I was very sad about them not being together.
i always hated when Barry and iris find out Nora worked with Thawne and shows no understanding for Barry being upset she defends Nora like is noting
Nora saw Thawne as a father/friend due to him helping her with her powers and Iris knew that. But all Barry saw was the man who killed his mother, I don't blame him.
Thawne was only used nora so he can get of cell
im kinda with iris on that one. mostly cus barry was being a hypocrite
@@KuroAceVTI’m not, Thawne practically is the reason why Barry became The Flash in the first place, practically, everything that happened to Barry, both directly and indirectly leads back to Eobard Thawne, and I feel Iris was incapable to feel what Barry felt, that his own daughter, his own flesh and blood was helping Eobard, even after she learnt that Eobard killed her grandmother, she still went to him, and Iris just decided not see the situation how Barry saw it, knowing that Eobard is part of her reason her almost fiancée Eddie Thawne died indirectly
@@Daniel-si7zp and did you actually pay attention to WHY she is? She doesn’t have a choice, working with him is the only way to stop cicada
Problems with Iris:
1. The writers took a shortcut by having Barry grow up in the same house with her as pseudo siblings. The audience was denied the opportunity of seeing them meet for the first time, get to know each other, and slowly get together. When Iris finally starts to entertain the idea of dating Barry in season 2, she makes it sound like she is doing it out of obligation for the future or destiny rather than something that she really wants.
2. The CW sucks as writing romantic relationships. They make it all about the relationship and the characters as individuals suffer.
3. In season 4 she was thrust into the role of team leader undeservedly when there were more qualified people to fill that role. Like Cisco, who Barry specifically named at the end of season 3. Her now infamous line of "We are the Flash" didn't help.
4. Season 5, she chastises Wells for investigating Nora when it was proven that he was right to and chastises Barry for sending Nora back to the future where she should have been all along. She then tells Barry that he is wrong for not trusting Nora because of Thawne who killed his mother. Making her very unlikable.
I half disagree with 5. Sending Nora back to the future was extremely dumb because it doesn't solve the issue and leaves Nora to continue being manipulated by thawn. I think both characters were dumb there.
@@mr.protagonist5639 Nora is remaining in the past by her own will while Barry and Iris are allowing it. Barry and Iris, who should know quite well by now, screwing with time comes back to bite you. You would think that after Flashpoint Barry would realize what a danger it is and send Nora back right away. In fact, he did want to earlier in the season. He just caved in to Iris because SHE wanted Nora to stay for her own satisfaction.
Whether Nora would continue to be manipulated by Thawne or not is irrelevant. She does NOT belong in the past. Barry was RIGHT to send Nora back after finding out about Thawne. After traveling back in time with Barry earlier in the season and seeing what Thawne did to Barry's mother and father, she should already know you can't trust Thawne.
@@mr.protagonist5639 although him doing so meant she couldn't continue to relay information to Thawne. Cuz Barry couldn't guarantee what she was telling him.
@@dkirby9052 ok but what's to stop her from just coming back on her own later on? There's nothing that Barry could do to keep her in the future, so Barry should keep her close and try an get her to see things his way. That way thawn loses a pawn and gains another enemy. Did she actually see what happened to Barry's mother and that thawn was the cause of it. Because I genuinely don't remember
@@mr.protagonist5639 Well the problem is that Nora is written to have the maturity of a 10 year old. So unfortunately, I can believe that she would absolutely just go back to the past and endanger the whole timeline some more. She still does not belong in the past. Whatever Barry needs to do to keep her in her own time that is what he needs to do.
She and Barry were outside Barry's house when he was explaining what happened that night. Not to mention in that same episode they found Wells/Thawne with season 2 Barry cuffed in the vault. That should have been enough to convince someone with sense that Thawne is not someone to trust. Because Nora does not have any sense, Barry needs to drill it into her head that you can't trust Thawne. THEN keep her in her own time. There are better alternatives to resolving this situation than just being stupid.
I think many of us wish that Patty stuck around. But Barry’s chemistry with Caitlin was amazing
yeah, when I first started watching the flash I was 10 and even at that young of an age I still thought that Barry had more chemistry with Caitlin than Iris.
I heard somewhere that Danielle Panabaker was originally supposed to play Iris
@@The_Notorious_N.O.E. honestly imo it doesn't matter who plays iris be it Danielle panabaker or Candice Patton if she's written the same way, we won't like her .
i hated that too, but at the same time she was RIGHT! barry never shoulda gave up on nora,but barry was also right bc nora didnt know what she was really doing
My ship until the end was Snowbarry
Barry's chemistry with Kara was far better than his chemistry with Iris and the former two weren't even romantically inclined.
They messed up when they make the show diverse i didn't know that Wakanda existed in the DC universe
@@stellviahohenheim we're here we're Black, get used to it!
@@stellviahohenheim also WAKANDA FOREVER! 🙅🏽♀️
@@stellviahohenheim???? you’ve never seen a black person before?? weirdo
@@stellviahohenheimWAKANDA FOREVER
For me I think the main reason why I hated the CW Iris west, was there was times she was very self centered and selfish. When Barry was going through something, she didn't really try to understand him. Sometimes got angry at him for no reason, when he needs her the most.
I LOVED patty, she was way more carrying and loved him more. I would've loved to see a universe where Barry and patty actually became a thing.
Is that not realistic ig we are not self-centered at times bro that dumb we all are self-centered at times
@@King_ace22 not everyone is
crazy thing is CW actually got it right one time, with Felicity.
as much as I freaking HATED Laurel, just as much I loved Felicity. she was caring, but also she IS a strong woman, she calls Oliver out on his bullshit without coming off as egotistical, she is accomplished on her own without it feeling like she pushes Oliver out of the spotlight. I don't know how they managed to write a great love interest, it is definitely a fluke in CW shows
I often felt like Iris was on a different show that crossed over with Flash. This hungry reporter with a cop dad and scientist brother reports on supernatural events in her city. Fine. Iris? Go do YOUR show and let us watch the Flash! Her selfishness was us being forced to sit thru the Iris West show.
Patty Spivot's abrupt exit was the result of a behind the scenes spat between Patty's actress and the then showrunner. We were supposed to get more of her and Barry's relationship.
& at the End, said Show Runner(Andrew Kreisberg) ended up being a Predator
@@ArcTrooper269what?
@@adeletellez5749 Yup, he left after s4 when he was exposed on 2018 & then Eric Wallace came to the party, like Arbiter said to Chief in halo 3:
*WE CHANGE A VILLAIN FOR ANOTHER*
@@ArcTrooper269I mean how could you be surprised it’s Hollywood literally all of them of pedos makes me wonder if cloned grant an now he’s in broadway in Hollywood
@@ArcTrooper269Hey, i saw you before. You and i were defending Stephen Ammel's Green Arrow a while back. Nice to see you're also a Halo fan!
Barry had chemistry with literally every single other female character beside Iris. Caitlin would've made for a better love interest than iris. Barry and Iris don't match at all they have nothing in common and there personalities don't really work off eachother. It's not the actors fault it's just the fact there not given anything to work with. When Iris is part of the team she feels so incredibly out of place because she doesn't have anything to contribute. Cisco's the tech and computer guy, Caitlin's the medic, Harry is the scientist and Joe is the cop dad mentor. What does Iris bring to the table ,what even makes her qualified to lead the team? She's just a bland Lois Lane copy.
For the CW flash they 100% should have had him end up with caitlin
"We are the flash"
@@avariciousgaming1695 🤣🤣🤣
Your this upset at the character instead if the idiots who wrote her.....
pep talks, also i completely agree with the actor part. writers coulda done a better job by far, almost makes the flash movie look good
I hate hate HATE ! The way cw writers treat the main love interest i swear to god they just think “oh main character needs an issue lets make love interest act like a bitch for very little reason
Savitar had one job😭
@@RED115 I don't know why in the show they call Savitar a villain, he was a true hero, tried to save us from Iris becoming the Iris we know now
That's how CW does it.Once the couple they invest in get together,they just shove the main love interest down our throats and make the show more about the love interest and the couple while pushing everyone to the side
then they always try to make it seem like the love interest was in the right
Lana had so many identity crisis on Smallville it rivals Lex getting bonked on the head.
It felt weird to me that they made them kind of like Step Siblings. Sure you could fall in love with someone you grew up with but they call the same person dad 🤢
Joe pretty much adopted Barry after everything that happened with his parents. The part where Iris was practically like a sister was really weird. I would've gone for SnowBarry any day. Girl may have had issues, but at least she wasn't like an adoptive sister. I could see a version of Barry and Dr Snow working together and falling for each other over time. Barry even helping her through the loss of her first boyfriend Firestorm (?) as a friend at first. Ya know? Having Iris be the interest is just too weird given the circumstances.
Joe never adopted Barry he was his guardian. This is only ever brought up to “prove” why Barry and iris shouldn’t be together when it literally isn’t true
@@chelseaperry9131 dude raised him from when his father went to prison. Dude basically adopted him no matter the legal bullshit.
And now here a quote from barry “You’re just the man who kept me fed and in clothes, who sat beside my bed at night because I was afraid of the dark, helped me with my homework. You taught me how to drive and shave. You dropped me off at college. Sounds a lot like a dad to me.”
Like shit was weird from the get go. Iris could of just not been his daughter.
If they wanted to portray a couple as siblings they'll keep them white, The concept of black fathers doesn't exist
He wasn't really his dad and its not like he could visit his. SO he needed one.
She's the epitome of a "female supporting character"
MC: Girl, LITERLY, stay here... i can not stress enough the fact that if you just stay here, the world will be saved. Countless lives will be ruined, i will fucking die or make a sacrifice, every known multiverse will suffer if you move.. please just stay here.. and i can save the day in a second, move and itll be a month long agony, stay here.. please.. just stay here..."
Female supporting character: "I see, interesting..... so lemme just go do what you said will fuck everything up because i myself have some internal issue where i feel im useless and i want to help even tho me "helping" will ruin us all :D "
MC: ............ " alright, ill just suffer and inevitably marry you anyways, even if im armless for the rest of my life cause of your decisions, you so cute babe"
Fr
Arrow did the same thing
The biggest problem with Iris West is that she was a side character being forced into a main character role. She was quite literally written to be in a secondary/support role! Now whether this was intentional or not, I don’t know, but let’s look at the reasons. She was oblivious to the Flash’s identity for almost the entirety of season 1. Almost every other series regular knew the Flash’s identity. She worked as a coffee barista with aspirations to become a news reporter. Barry was forensic scientist, Cisco was a tech wizard, Caitlyn was a doctor, Harrison Wells was the founder and director of Star Labs (and created the particle accellerator), and Joe was a cop. Each of these characters had the skills to play key roles on the team. Iris did not. Iris’ occupation and skillset (at least as written) did not lend itself to contributing to such an operation. Each of the other characters had a developed, genuine relationship/friendship with Barry. Wells’ was his mentor, Joe was his father figure, and Cisco & Caitlin he developed relationships with as trusted colleagues and close friends. Iris was the awkward crush he pined over while she was engaged to another guy. Wells, Joe, Cisco, & Caitlin could all have genuine conversations with Barry and support him after he became the Flash. Barry’s interactions with Iris could only ever be superficial because he had to maintain a facade around her because of both his secret identity and his secret crush on her.
As you can see, in every respect Iris was not set-up to be a main character. The cruel irony is she was wasn’t written to be a good secondary character either! Almost everytime she was on screen, I felt the writers didn’t know what to do with her. If, say, they had written her to learn about Barry’s transformation from the start and better developed her desire to become a reporter (or bothered developing it all instead of letting it sputter out), she could have had character driven plot points such as, say, subtley influencing the Flash’s narrative in the news cycle to create a positive perception for him and fed information to the team that benefitted them in their crime fighting endeavors, which could have been her own small contribution to the team. Also, if she had known Barry’s identity from the beginning, they could have had some honest and heartfelt conversations about their own relationship and Barry’s feelings for her while she was engaged to Eddie. Maybe come to an understanding about it. Then I maybe I could accept her being a believable love interest and compelling side character.
As it stands, thats not the Iris West got. What we got instead was an annoying side character shoehorned into scenes and roles she had no business being in. If the producers intent *was* to make Iris a compelling main character with an integral role to show, they utterly failed on that front.
I agree with this 💯 she wasn’t a main character till season and she didn’t do the transition well at all like as u said the other main characters are very important to the story & bring something to the team
I read all that 🗣️ but nah fr spitting with this ☝️
Yeah, they did this for so many of the characters by S9, it was ridiculous
AGREED🗣️🗣️💯
They were trying SO HARD to replicate the Lois Lane Red-Blue Blur storyline from Smallville where Lois doesn't know Clark's secret, but becomes enamored with this Super Speed superhero around town while reporting on him at the Daily Planet. The thing is, that happened after Lois had been on the show for three or four seasons, and had developed as her own character with an established relationship with Clark. So, not only was the Iris as "aspiring journalist" pining over "The Streak" felt like a poor carbon copy of another CW show's storyline, but Iris herself wasn't a developed character to feel as fleshed out as Lois was in that storyline.
I really hate how the people in this show pushed their hate for Wally West SO HARD to the point that the character NEVER APPEARS OR GETS ANY MENTION, Despite the inmense amount of reboots, time travel & different universe shinenigans the show sufferen in its 9 SEASON run-time
Instead they decided to adapt Wallace West, a guy who at that point only existed for what? 4 years?
& This Wallace isn't even comic acurate because they LITTERALLY STOLE his personality & character arc from Arrow's Roy Harper, except that Roy was ACTUALLY LIKEABLE
I'm with you brotha, I loved Wally in the show even if he isn't the traditional Wally West we know in the comics
@@ComicCasualVideosI actually think it was healthy for the character and the show, Wally’s character going into legends was really fun to see
@@christiantrent1030 But just like the Tamaranian Invasion, it was all wasted when the actor lef the show
@@ArcTrooper269 yeah I agree
I didn’t mind Wally in this show they just never knew what to do with his character. Flash S1 and 2 is the best for me . & Wally West in Young Justice I like a lot
_venom voice:_
*‘WE...’*
_iris voice:_
*‘…are the flash..’*
☠️☠️
Barry said it first, hypocrite
@@KuroAceVTbro why are you responding to everyone relax lol
@@Rayshaddlife I respond to braindead people
Lmao exactly
Effing Handler from MHW ah individual
When the writing made iris say I don't care that your mama died this is our daughter, great content keep up the good work
On Patty, her actress revealed several years after her departure that her contract was terminated (implicitly by now-disgraced showrunner Andrew Kreisberg) because she’d gotten a role on another show... Thing is, Shantel was willing to negotiate her time so she could at least finish her contract (which was Season 2 if I’m recalling right), but the creator she didn’t name was really angry and just… let her go. So that’s why she was abruptly written out (and Joe had no policing partner after that).
On Caitlin, it’s pretty clear that the writers had no idea what to do with her after the initial Killer Frost story (that and her early series ill-fated romances with Ronnie and then Hunter Zolomon); why did they consistently retcon the nature of her powers. Given how good Danielle and Grant’s chemistry was, a scenario in which they got together could honestly have forwarded them both… with or without Iris dying at that.
It's the writing. The earth 2 version of Iris from season 2 was better
that's the wild part about this show; I preferred EVERY version of Iris out there in the multiverse MORE than her Earth-1 counterpart! Shoot, even Flashpoint Iris was better than Earth-1 Iris...
@@OurKindofEntertainment This is a certified true and factual statement
@@OurKindofEntertainmentI would agree with that because an Earth 2 she was more straightforward and tough or had some skin to herself that makes sense And she had character buildup hell even her reverse your version of Iris was slightly better it kills me is very new that wasn't his iris because she can't cook😂
@@christianmbabazi9722
"Iris made me waffles for breakfast this morning."
"That sounds lovely."
"IRIS CAN'T COOK!"
P@@christianmbabazi9722
That we are the flash scene still haunts me.
I 100% agree. It's like if Mary Jane said we are Spider-Man.
Facts.! Like “ WE” seriously? I immediately stop watching the show after that episode.
Me too that's when
The show went completely
Down hill.
Got to admit, forgot that even happened
barry said it first so...
Barry and Caitlin had far more chemistry together and would have made a much better couple. Their relationship felt so much more natural than anything we got with Barry and Iris, with anything beyond them being friends just feeling forced. Barry and Caitlin had a leg up from the very start, what with Caitlin being Barry’s doctor and caretaker while he was in a coma and also being closely involved during his transformation into a metahuman. It’s clear that they cared for each other and Caitlin having a rather personal stake in Barry’s wellbeing after losing Ronnie to the particle accelerator explosion, the seeds of a deeper relationship had been planted from the beginning.
That's because Barry x Caitlin was the original ship being built. But since felicity and Oliver's ship made people so aggravated, CW execs assumed it was due to straying from the source material. So they forced the iris Barry pairing anyway and turned Caitlin in to a sad girl who pines after men like Barry Allen as her silver medals and made iris 80× more insufferable
@@brandonr3072 I’ve seen this mentioned a few times and it would make sense with how Barry and Caitlin were written for most of season one. Granted I’ve never looked that much for it, but has there been mention of Barry and Caitlin being endgame from the writers or production team? I gave up on the show after season 4 and never got much into the interviews and other outside material before then.
@Gatekeeper201 you did yourself a favor. The flash becomes a side character in his own show and Caitlin pretty much gets written out for a new personality, but yeah, the reason she falls for zoom and malfoy is because they're similar to Barry. Even though the writers couldn't have their way, they still wanted to show everyone the pairing they really wanted.
Old flash show? Even then and there, people realised this!
@@Gatekeeper201i don't think there's been an official mention that they were endgame, but strong subtext in favor of that in the show.
1. Barry is the person who brings caitlin back to life after ronnie's "death" in the particle accelerator. He makes her smile and enjoy life again, with cisco mentioning she only got as mad as she did with barry with ronnie. You also have her drunk scene where she asks barry to put her in her pyjamas and says he could've taken a look at her if he wanted. So it's clear that there was potential from caitlin's part, with the show implying that barry was at the same level to her as ronnie was.
2. When barry is depressed in the beginning of season 2, the one person who he decides to watch wells' will with is caitlin, showing that he too feels the strong emotional bond between them.
Does nobody talk about how they are STEP-SIBLINGS. They call joe “DAD” 💀😭
Thank you!
Why did CW ever think it was a good idea to make the main love interest of your main character his kind of adopted sister💀
They aren't really step siblings. He liked her and he practically was a roommate or a foster kid.
@@BlackDiamond2718 I mean it's more of a foster situation but he called Joe dad and Wally his brother so it is pretty weird
@@VAB4466 yea
Iris dying beyond setting tone and establishing stakes gives Barry the opportunity for character development, internal struggles. Barry didn't really grow as a character ever towards the end of the show, he was just in a loop of learning the same things again and again and again. They had such an easy way to develop him further and said, "nah"
Three Problems:
The Writers Made Her Annoying Post S3
Barry had more chemistry with every woman they put him with except Iris (Patty, Linda, Caitlyn)
They made her his sister
Barry and Iris has more chemistry as friends then they ever did as lovers.
Don't remind us it's weird enough 😂 this man married his stepsister well adopted sister
Hey it’s not my fault for being team Allen/Snow I just didn’t want to bother myself with justifying how it’s ok to be with your adopted sibling 😂
@@chibuezeezike5372 Ditto
he even had good chemistry with supergirl
Barry Cisco and Caitlin are all types of scientists, but Iris just there not being useful and getting in near death expenses
Yeah it's like I was saying in my own personal opinion Iris is just a glorified journalist who isn't even good at her own job so in the end she's no help and is a burden and season 4 pissed me off the most because she started taking charge like she actually had any kind of authority AT ALL like mate you are not needed here go away
exactly! iris is surrounded by a group of geniuses who are way smarter than her, and yet she wants to get in on it and pretended to be super smart like they are. not sure why she became leader baffles me?
It’s not like Barry said there’s no flash without iris countless times or anything I guess you’ll have to argue with Barry then
@@chelseaperry9131yes we will. Because that's fucking stupid. There was an entire season of flash before iris knew who barry was. Iris is about as useful in the show as black widow would be in a beard-growing competition.
You guys are just bigots who want to silence the black voice
Catlin was a better love interest, or the other woman who left in the train
Of course cuz the cw never tried to take time to write the black characters beside being one note and unlikable ( cough) Diggle & James
@@gamecitysavior2910 if they wrote iris better she would’ve been amazing. But sometimes she was just plain selfish and it looked like she didn’t care about barry tbh. Barry’s line where he says that runs for her; that there is no flash without iris, doesn’t make sense when she is rude all the time.
Barry's toothbrush would've made a better love interest compared to iris.
even felicity would’ve been better let’s be real, her and Barry had legit chemistry together(which i believe is actually mentioned, and the show poked fun at the idea a few times) but there were also scenes that made them seem like awkward teens who haven’t really been in many relationships because up to that point neither of them really had been, and it was more of a charming awkwardness, where it’s kinda cute cuz you can tell they both like each other a little, not like Iris and Barry who are awkward together because one is engaged c and the other is secretly in love, which makes the awkwardness feel a little more creepy/pathetic, cuz it makes Barry look like an incel who can’t just accept when people he likes don’t like him back which is NOT Barry Allen
@gamecitysavior2910 hell no.it's not about being black.for example,look at joe or other characters like Dig.This is only about Iris who is annoying af
I gave up on Snowbarry while the show was still running
Then I was so wishing Caitlin got more time because god the writers hated her
Candice Patton isnt a bad actor, but when I think of Iris West, I dont think soft emotional support damsel in distress. The CW Iris West is probably closer to the MCU Pepper Potts, but DC Iris West should probably be closer to Lois Lane, and THAT is a HUGE difference.
Pepper Is Better She Is A Woman Who Can Fight And Who Can Kill.
😅
Thats really disrespectful to Pepper from MCU
The CW flash show was my first true intro to the flash lore. Before then I just saw the flash as the guy who runs fast on the Justice League. So imagine how weird it seemed to me that Barry was pinning after his unofficial adopted sister who had a fiancé, like dude move on go date that Caitlin girl who’s single and doesn’t have a sibling-like relationship with you. Poor Eddy killed himself so that Iris and Barry can be together 😂
Technically, Eddy killed himself to erase Eobard from the timeline (which didn't work because Eobard is Flash's Joker, you'll never kill him off), but he did hope Barry would take care of Iris.
@@NotMyRealName6 yeah that was Eddy’s thinking but when it didn’t work it seems like the show just killed him off just to have Barry and Iris get together
@@chibuezeezike5372 Like I said, Reverse Flash is as hard to kill as the Joker.
You should have seen the animated Version of Flash in the Justice League Show. Even though there are not many Episodes focusing only on Flash, this Episodes are always a Banger and he is voiced by none other then Smallvilles Lex Luthor.
It was like the more push back WestAllen got, the more the writer(s) would shove it down our throats...
Especially, after 'WE Are The Flash' became a thing in Season 4!
ikr that's like tryna say that Lois lane and Clark kent ARE Superman like, it just doesn't work and neither does this that line is a disgrace for any character
@@GoId3nWrId Exactly, the best part is Lois IS her own character apart from Superman! Does she get in over her head from time to time? Yes, but at the same time Lane has her own 'lane' she thrives in rather than being forced to be Superman's gal pal smh
Similar to Clark and Lana in Smallville.
@@GoId3nWrIdor the Bat family is Batman
@@Xehanort10They really tried to shove that relationship down our throats, even though they were always doomed, especially after Lois came along.
In my personal opinion the CW should have just done snowberry because people like the actress or like the writing of the character a lot more
Why? People complained Oliver and Laurel didn't get together in Arrow and Caitlin didn't need a FOURTH love interest.
I love the concept of Oliver and Laurel Lance
@@Ian-rg4yr It truly sucks they didn't get together. Especially because the comics and pretty much a lot of other green arrow media always either implies or shows they get together. Now, for Flash Iris was fine, my issue was he got with Linda. 😂
@@jemmellpyron2527 I wouldn't count Julian as a love interest in my personal opinion since the dude had only one season to go off of in their chemistry
@darkshadowx803 Oh I meant in the long run. My bad.
The worst part about having Iris around was how the show had to nerf down the other characters to make her relevant in most storylines. What pretty much broke my brain was when Iris told Barry, "You are not the Flash Barry, we are." Marrying a superhero, sleeping with a superhero; does not make you a superhero!
My problem with her is that outta every love interest Barry had throughout the show, this was like the last one I'd think he'd end up with. You got Kaitlyn, Patty, the Dr Light girl, all that shared a much more profound connection in my opinion but then the Cw was like, remember this girl from season 1? Yeah, he's gonna end up with her now. It feels like he had the least amount of connection with her than others. That's my problem with her.
I think we can all agree on that, You can hire the best actor or actress for the role but if they're given a shitty storyline then it pretty much wastes they're whole potential cuz I believe if Iris was given better story material people wouldn't be hating her as much besides the ignorant race baiters that don't like this Iris cuz she's black most of the time is literally just bad writers and some of these writers need to be fired
You ARE aware you're NOT hiring "the best actor for the job" if your primary motivation is to cast for diversity?
The problem isn't that she is black, the problem is that the CHARACTER, is NOT black, so her being race changed is a clear indication they are more interested in scoring diversity points over representing the actual character. Lo and behold, she JUST so happens to be one of the least liked characters in the entire show. She's handed extreme importance for no reason, she never earns it, and she literally steals the Flash's identity with that we are the flash bullshit, and that's just the beginning.
The people that say "the character's race doesn't matter" are ALWAYS the ones screaming the loudest that race swapping characters is an improvement as well. News flash, BLACK PEOPLE hate when this happens, because they recognize it for what it is.
Black face.
You take an established white character, and you steal their name and put them in black face, then you have a well liked black character that everyone has to like otherwise it's because you're racist. Was there any effort to make a NEW black character? No. Is there any effort to make the race swapped character GOOD? No, not needed, you can just scream racism when people don't like this obviously bad character. Just take a white one that already exists, slap some black in there, and voila, job's done.
THIS is the crux of the race swapping thing. It's NOT racism, people saying that are idiot race baiters that are falling for the trap. They say it's racism, so you're not allowed to oppose the change. The change that is lazy, racist, and results in people who are NOT the best for the job being handed it regardless because they fit the APPEARANCE. Case and point, see basically anything Marvel has made the last few years.
Race swapping is a symptom, not THE problem. And people who can't connect the race swapped characters strangely being constantly BAD with the motivations BEHIND the race swap in the first place, need to take a step back and actually look at the picture, not the red herring of "but racism!"
Since I know it's bloody hard for you people to think, let me put it into perspective.
Race swapping white characters is a symptom, it in and of itself is not a problem, it can even be done correctly, see Nick Fury. It however is a SIGNAL of a certain type of approach and ideology, one which is harmful to media.
In the same way, wearing a pointy white hood on your head, isn't itself a problem, however it's a signal of a certain type of ideology which is generally harmful and distasteful.
Do you get it now, or are you going to persist with your "you're just racist" nonsense?
it's because iris is nothing like
Her character at all, her race
is somewhat part of that
Also the fact that she's
not red headed anymore
& Her terrible personality
I feel like people aren't
Racist for that, I'd have
The same issue if they
Made cyborg white
it's that her character
isn't like her comic
Book counterpart
at all it's not racism.
To be completely honest I prefer Barry to be with Caitlin over Iris I mean look at how much Barry and Caitlin are compatible to one another
Yeah😊
I agree
Regarding Iris's race in the CW Flash, Berlanti already established with the casting that his IW will be a black woman, hence giving the West family the African - American treatment (Joe being an amalgamation of Ira West and the cop who raises Barry after his dad's arrest) Wally being the same with taking elements from red head Wally and Ace West.
I think Candice did a phenomenal job as Iris in the show, it was the writing that treated her harshly/ making her out to be an annoying bish (which in many occasions she was).
My issue isn't necessarily with her, but with her stans, who are constantly making fun of and harassing Danielle Panabaker, because she and Candice apparently didn't get along. But there were some very vocal haters of Candice who would throw racist insults towards her and she felt really hurt by them and even contemplated leaving after season 2 and that was so not okay.
Stans and shippers were so fucking weird regarding the actresses. It didn't need to be that serious for them. But I should have expected it given how bad some Arrow fans were regarding Felicity.
The reason why Joe west sucks because his character in the comics doesn’t fit his character in the show.
@@rickyhuynh4641 When not dealing with his wife, Joe was my favorite regular. Caitlin was my second favorite.
You brought up some good points here and I want to capitalize on something that has always been painfully obvious to me in this show (and probably all through CW) "Drama in relationships misses the meaning" and without it it's just wholesome all the time and could bore people. The reason why Iris and Barry's drama stands out is because it's very obviously forced, because without it nothing interesting at all happens, asides from the "you never have time for me" trope or the occasional bad guy to come in between them they have no reason for any natural interesting drama, so their relationship is quite barebones. (which is fine if that sort of things satisfies you)
Patty on the other hand is already heavily involved with meta humans, like Cisco said she would fit in team Flash. They could have even geared her up with star labs equipment to help Barry out in the field, which could have led to some drama down the road. Overall even Patty and Barry would succumb to forced drama. They would have been quite the simple "partner in crime" type relationship. Fun.
And then we have Felicity. Felicity and Barry could possibly work well because they're basically in the same boat, they both crushed on someone that (at the time) did not feel the same way/were afraid to confess their feelings, bonding over that. Oh and they're both nerds. Neat. The long distance relationship thing could naturally bring a bit of drama and interesting scenarios but would eventually lead to CW forcing more drama. I like how you described Felicity and Barry basically being the Caitlin and Barry lite. Perfect segue to..
Caitlin and Barry. A lot of people don't make this parallel but the duo was done in the Flash before. 1990s The Flash, Barry and Christina. Tina was a star labs scientist just like Caitlin who studied Barry and fell for him, (Barry vice versa) after her husband died. (aka Ronnie) Which has all crossed paths to the CW universe. She quite literally is Earth 1 Caitlin married to Earth 1 Barry. Two brilliant minds working together as a team is always great, but there was little to no drama between them. Something Barry and Caitlin would easily fix. #1 With everything you mentioned in the video plus her struggles to let go of Ronnie, his struggles getting over Iris, they compliment each others growth and development. #2 The drama is natural because she could develop a more overprotective behavior towards him after the many times he's nearly died, due to her Ronnie PTSD. Which sparks decisions that easily lead to more natural drama and Killer Frost is literally Barry's weakness, ice. They wouldn't just be two brilliant minds, but also a metahuman duo. AND she could slow down speedsters, like Thawn. Imagine what they could do if they put their minds together during a battle? CW wouldn't have to force anything, the drama is all there already. Oh and they're *also* both nerds.
Savitar and killer Frost just double down on the idea that no matter what Caitlin and Barry work perfectly. Even as villains.
TL;DR Typical CW drama writing sucks and they had great drama opportunities in the palm of their hands but ignored it. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
You hit the nail on the head with CW shows having trouble writing love interests, and I feel sad because having Iris being set up in the earlier seasons as an aspiring reporter and her blog in reporting on the mysterious speedster and giving him good press. Later on in discovering Barry's identity I feel they could have had obstacles, not personal drama. I love seeing couples who are happy together and the only drama in their lives is what is thrown at them and how they get through it while building each other up and learning from each other (examples I can think of are Rick and Evy from the Mummy 1999 and its sequel, Hiccup and Astrid from HTTYD, Bianca and Bernard from Rescuers)
I had never thought about Iris dying before but it's an interesting thought with the writing and the storyline they were setting up to speedsters not being gods, and could have set up some interesting plot points.
- Wally, Barry and Joe bond more and Wally steps up as Kid Flash to help Barry through his grief and determination not to become like Savitor/Evil Barry.
- Caitlin becomes overprotective further of Barry because she wants to help him how he helped her with losing Ronnie, and what she went through with Jay/Zoom in season 2.
- Alternate world Iris still showing up from time to time. Some like Earth 2 married to non-speedster Barry, maybe one where that world lost Barry and she's alone or married Eddie.
- Then eventually Caitlin and Barry realise their romantic feelings for each other but feel guilty and so try to repress them till they finally let themselves be happy with each other. Then the future seasons have the obstacles of Killer Frost and other dynamics as you said.
As you said it's not based on a particular comic it's in its own world, and if they paired Green Arrow with Felicity (I think she's an original created character?) instead of long comic running established Black Canary because of their chemistry and relationship/dynamic with each other... why not have this universe be a world where Barry had Iris but lost her, and then found new love?
Iris and Barry had to chemistry, Patty and Barry did, Barry and Caitlin did. Iris would have been just fine as the best friend/sister like character
The thing with him and Catlin to me feels like two good friends... But I loved Patty for him. Basically, anyone would have been better than his step sister.
He wanted her so why don't y'all get on cw flash
My issue was always the fact they'd make Iris be a jerk or make bad decisions and the story would frame it like she was in the right.
The actor has nothing to do with it. It was bad writing.
The actor does have something to do with it.
It's a show.
She's a character.
That requires acting. If she were just so good at acting you'd be saying "The actor is REALLY good and makes me wanna like her so much, but the writing is just a trash fire."
She's not nearly that charismatic though, most of the time she's barely acting honestly. She was explicitly hired for that role for being black, that's the nature of race swapping. They didn't audition hundreds of actors and a black woman just so happened to be the best for the job, they explicitly wanted to change this character into a black character, because of diversity and so when people don't like her they can just call them racist.
The writing keeps saying she's right and doesn't punish her bad decisions for the same reason they changed her into a black character. Race swapping is the symptom, the bad writing is the disease. They CAN'T punish Iris for being shitty, because then they would be racist for attacking a black character. Race swapped characters routinely don't face any actual consequences for peril because they need to be mary sues, everything just has to work out for them because of the racist rules of writing "minority" characters. Things they do not earn are handed to them, they can't be removed from the story for any reason so they have ultimate plot armor, they need to be written as girl bosses, so their personalities are unbearable.
Anyone who looks at shows deliberately taking a white character and making them black and touts the "Race doesn't matter" rhetoric is falling for the bullshit of "You just don't like her cause you're racist!".
Meanwhile literally everyone on this video is saying the same thing without actually saying it.
The girl who played Patty should've been Iris.
The actors have good chemistry, she's liked way more despite having so much less screen time, and she's a much better written character. But they couldn't hire the best person for the job, because they had to hire for diversity. Plus if they make Iris black, they can then race swap the entire West family, that makes Wally West, a very popular WHITE character, now black, therefore you must like him and they don't actually have to write him well. Also all of Barry's children get to be black as well, so that's MORE diversity, and it doesn't matter how awful their writing is. But, heh, you LOVE Impulse, surely. And how he and Nora act like actual fucking children despite being adults, right? Right? You love them! Remember, if you don't you're racist, so you love them right?
Ignoring the roots of the problem don't solve the problem.
I appreciate your video and all the people who left comments. I was recently watching a reactor watch season 1 Flash for the first time and all the commenters were hating on Iris and spoiling future episodes. They kept saying things like "Iris will become more annoying and more unbearable in future". I didn't mind Iris when I watched the Flash so I was kind of curious why there's so much passionate and negative feedback around this character. I know that dislike was projected onto the actor, Candice, as well. She talked about the racism and hate she got throughout the entire show and I feel bad for her and what the writers/creators did with her character.
The Problem i had with Iris was how the writing of the character changed once iris and Barry got together., like in the first season, their was something about iris that felt so light and positive (which was pretty much how the tone of the first season was) her character felt very joyful and full of wonder, which made you understand why barry liked her so much. But then once she found out he was the flash and then they got together and she became involved with team flash, the character then switched into being moody and dramatic and it felt like the dynamic between barry and iris became like an old married couple. And the character just felt really stale and obnoxious. but i think the big thing really is just how it felt like the character or the actor wasn't having fun, it was always this serious annoyed expression on her face like the light was taken from her eyes. and i don't wanna just bash her this happened to Barry and many of the characters. Like Barry just seemed more depressed as seasons went by where the only time he lightened up was when he teamed up with Arrow because they had to make him comedic to balance Olivers justifiable seriousness. And then theirs cisco who seemed to be having so much fun in earlier seasons to where by the time he leaves team flash, it gives very little impact for how quiet and depressed the character was acting.
But anyway i don't know if its the writers or the acting just fell down, but it really damaged a lot of characters especially Iris.
although if you think about it, they all have reasons for not being as happy as they were, Cisco found out that before Barry went back in time Dante never died, and he’s been kidnapped multiple times, almost died a couple times, and also literally watched one of his best friends run into a black hole with no idea if he’d survive, not to mention the fact he never wanted powers and got them anyway, anyone would be terrified of that, Iris went from Barista, to journalist to essentially flash’s felicity, just worse cuz she doesn’t have any of the skills felicity has, not to mention has watched her husband die, more than once, Barry too he’s been tortured by some of these villains specifically Thawne, anyone would start acting more depressed in their shoes, the only thing i don’t like is that it happened to Barry too, Barry is supposed to be incorruptible without mind control, he is supposed to be happy go lucky no matter what has happened in his past
As someone who enjoyed the first few seasons of the Flash, and tried sticking around until the end, Iris definitely fell off around season 4. She was definitely at her worst from season 4 onward, which was disappointing since I actually really liked her in the earlier seasons.
Personally, I think your idea about Iris dying in season 3 was good, I just think it should’ve been Patty and not Iris. It was clear that WestAllen was end game, so I think it would have been really impactful to see Patty (someone many people enjoyed; me included) die in season 3. It could have also been something Iris and Barry could connect on, since Iris lost Eddie in season 1. We could have seen Iris help Barry deal with the loss of Patty, which would have helped with the WestAllen relationship as it moved forward. But, I loved Barry and Caitlin as well, and I think they would have made a lot of sense as a couple.
Anyway, this was honestly a really good video, you should talk about the Flash more. And sorry for making this comment so long.
Honestly I agree. The relationship would not have felt rushed. I stayed with flash until the very end. I started to love the show a whole lot less in season 5 where I couldn't tolerate some of the story
lines.
What I liked about Patty was that she wasn't written as an obstacle for Barry s d Iris. Barry was never shown pinning for Iris during their relationship, and Iris was never shown being jealous, in typical "will they, won't they?" fashion.
They couldn't have killed her in season 3 because people would complain about it comparing it to arrow season 4 when they foreshadowed a character dying which ended up being Laurel.
Exactly. Once was dumb enough. Doing it twice would have been terrible for the Arrowverse.
@@jemmellpyron2527 Nah Iris dying would have been genuinely better. No hate on the actress but the writing for the character was absolutely abysmal
Imma be real, when they retconned Iris West to be Barry's step sister I checked out on thier relationship. That stuff has always been weird to me. That and as you said, they made her way more important to solving crime than she ever was in the comics. And that's not to say she hasn't got one over on s bad guy or two, but it was no where near ,Barry can't function unless Iris tells him what to do. Or the team for that matter, but that's does another video 😂
Yea it was weird..Joe raised him since he was what 10? Barry is more Iris' brother than Wally since Iris was never raised with Wally.
The hatred to the character was overblown, but the writers really fumbled the character. The idea of Barry growing with her ended up reducing people's potential support for the couple due to perceiving them as almost siblings. Also, there was too little time to develop her skills and her transition to the team wasn't really well done. She was a decent fighter and strategist, but that's not as clearly outlined like the roles of other initial Team Flash members. In Seasons 3, 4 and 5 she was too unreasonable at times in a way that couldn't be defended, like when she berated Barry for leaving her in the Speed Force without her input despite that not being viable or running defense for Thawne when Nora was revealed to work with him even if Thawne was a war criminal at that point.
Her journalism was set aside for no reason, and when it is given some relevance, her role in the team takes more precedence and the main employees there join the team.
Despite putting her in severe traumas, the show does too little to address them.
People who hate the actor/actress for the script and role they are given, really need to get their selves together. I you can hate a character but not somebody who is just doing their job, unless they're simply bad at acting, but hate is still out of the ordinary and just straight up rude
I think that after Iris's death in season 3, at the start of season 4, they can start realistically building up the endgame of Flashfrost.
Haha! No
I understand your points. I've heard about what some people feel towards her, however I never saw the later seasons, haven't even finished season two. I can only talk about her in the first few seasons and I don't mind her. It is the writing that can be a big issue with where you take the characters and story. Definitely talk more about The Flash
The immediate and most obvious (they even pointed this out in the first episode to get it out of the way) and that’s: they were basically siblings? Like Y’know? I thought this was always werid.
My biggest complaint with season one, which I still think is the best thing The CW has ever done, is that they had the great “Crazy For You” episode that showed off Barry and Caitlin’s chemistry, had them say they were moving on from Iris and Ronnie respectively, and implied that they were into each other. Then immediately followed that with the Firestorm arc and Caitlin obsessing over Ronnie again, and then Barry obsessing over Iris again right after that
So glad I found this channel, because I am a HUGE comic book nerd, and your personality seems very level headed and chill. I watched this shows first 2 seasons as a kid, and I liked the show, but because it's a CW show there's always gonna be messy writing in the show lol. I think the main highlight from The Flash CW has GOTTA BE the casting and acting. Everyone fit their roles, and they performed their characters really well. Great channel, and I absolutely smashed that sub button lmao
Honestly this other timeline's Iris starting pissing me off in 2017. Six months after the other me I saved (Barry), defeated Savitar. First she started get mad when Cisco told everyone he tried to save Barry, but then, when he 's actually back, she gets mad at him for leaving her... But Dr. Finkel actually helped me and my Iris a little in my timeline.
Hey, how are things going for you?
Who’s Dr. Finkel?
I think the only time an actor/actress should be given criticism for their role in an adaption, is either when they talk major bs about the original stories or act like they're making the story better cause they're in a popular medium. The Snow White remake actress and Little Mermaid remake actress are examples of this, where they either attacked the source material or acted like their mere addition was making the story better. An example of unwarranted criticism was the casting of Starfire in Titans, since to my knowledge the actress never placed herself on a pedestal. Though she was a red flag of how poorly they would adapt the Teen Titans characters.
Idk I feel like it should be the opposite. An actor’s job is to act. Outside of their job, they can feel whatever way they want about their work/project.
@@imreadyt0g0h0me Well I can agree to an extent as they have the freedom of speech and expression. However, if they're gonna complain about the original story that they're in an adaptation of, it shows how they weren't qualified for the role. It just makes them look like an entitled child and ultimately gives the adaption red flags of lower quality. Now if an actor/actress genuinely enjoys the material, then you're bound to get a better performance as they want to honor the material. This is compared to a spiteful and money driven actor/actress, who'll be bound to phone it in for a paycheck and or attack the fans for not praising their performance.
@@imreadyt0g0h0me The same can be said for the egotistical actor/actress who acts like their presence betters the adaption. A big difference is that the egotistical actor/actress is over hyping their performance and giving people unrealistic expectations for the adaption. All in all, there's a reason that companies usually try to restrict their actors/actresses from speaking on the films/shows, cause it rarely ends well for the product.
@@MikeFireheart I think that in the Snow White example you provided, Rachel was “bad-mouthing” the original, not the work she was in. Should there be a bare minimum amount of respect towards the orginal? Yes. Are people allowed to identify flaws within the original, and see how they can change these for the new adaptation? Also yes. There are tons of people who don’t like their job, or their coworkers, but at the end of the day still have to get the job done. As long as they do that, they’ll have their job. Also there are tons of actors and directors that are “hard to work with” but are still able to produce a good final product.
@@imreadyt0g0h0me Tons? Care to give a couple examples that I can research to back your claims? I'm not gonna act like there isn't some people who were able to make a decent product while hating the source material. There's a reason why I never said it's a 100% guarantee, it's just far more likely to fail than actually succeed in the end. I genuinely can't think of any movies/shows where the actors/actresses hated the source material and still made a good product.
When Iris "died" I really felt that, but she comes back next episoode I was like really? All this lead up to nothing, to then make her the leader of the team just repeating the formula. For me, Patty, Julian and Ralph not staying made the show worst, these characters not only had good chemistry but the situations should they have stayed would have been for the better, no doubt
am i the only one who realize that barry didn't earn iris, he just came back from flashpoint and ended up being with her which even left him confused
I realized that shi to I was really surprised they just were together immediately
For me the biggest problem was her refusing to understand Barry's POV regarding nora, it could have been done better by her being angry with barry and not saying anything until the buble bursts showing that she knew barry is right but her motherly instincts not letting her accept that instead of them straight up fighting. Except for that i can get behind most of the things like we are the flash or her being the leader of team flash. What people forget is being the leader of team flash isn't a role of fame or honor its a role of responsibility that no one was ready to take we literally see Cisco create a ai barry so he doesn't have to take the role Cisco was never a leader material neither was caitlin that role was forced on iris which she took mainly because there was no one else to take it and because she needed to forget about barry and barry is a paragon of love he gets his motivation, his courage and his strength from his loved ones, we are the flash is the best motivation he could have and we doesn't just mean iris it means team flash
My problem is that this TTTTTHHHOT got a problem with Barry for anything he did “ Barry you ate the second toaster strudel in the freezer, you know how much that strudel meant to the flies waiting in the trash how could you do that you aren’t the man I thought you were I’m leaving ” ofc she didn’t actually say this but you get what I mean
This is the most hilarious and on point analogy thank you 😂😂😂
She couldn't be a thot she was loyal to him the whole show she didn't fight him all the time she even gave him confidence multiple times
When they force that whole why did you leave me Barry it was stupid like the moment you decided to be part of his life him being a superhero knowing the risk like lady you knew what you signed up for. I’m not saying she shouldn’t feel that way but for her to get up all in his face about him disappearing is like sweetheart there’s pros and cons wit being with a superhero.
The CW fans always hide behind the "you're just sexist and racist" card whenever anyone has legitimate and logical criticism against arguably the worst version of the character ever. It's not the actress's fault, she did the best with what they gave her. The writers just couldn't stop using the Mary Sue power boost every other episode to remind Barry that he HAS FUCKING SUPER POWERS. In the later seasons it's so much worse, the plot literally doesn't need the title character in a quarter of the episodes because they use other heroes, a gadget, or Iris just solved the problem because fucking reasons. The number of massive plot holes required to make so many episodes require Iris was just sad after a while. She's a fucking REPORTER and has almost never had powers in her decades of lore. Also the pseudo-incest was very weird and unnecessary. On top of the weird "forces" being like their kids for a few episodes, that entire plot was just to shoe-horn Iris in when the plot started to drift from being about her.
Because you are….deal with it
What you wrote wasn't racist. The people that are racist are the people that complain about the race swapping. You criticisms are not racist, though your understanding of incest is completely wrong.
I’m so glad to have come across this video. I have my issues with the CW’s Iris, but so many people disliked her for being black (to the point that Grant Gustin had to come defend her), that I (as a black woman) never felt comfortable saying anything against her publicly because it just opened my comments up for people like that 😭 (Crazy thing is they apparently only made her black because they made Wally black in the New 52 comics and were trying to match it up, both the Wallys even meet in canon and I feel like that would have been a cool plot line for explore but I digress. Wally got a lot of hate too.) It’s nice to see a video that discusses Iris as a character and not the color of her skin. While I don’t want her gone like everyone else, I do wish they had done better by her writing wise. She had so much potential if they pulled from the source material or just genuinely showed her some care when writing. I think the only reason she didn’t die is because that would close the door for Nora. (And Bart.) And because it’s canon to the comics or whatever but still. I don’t blame the actors, I blame the writers. How do have like a thousand blueprints and still fuck it up?
iris dying would have added some phenomenal parallels to ralph in season 4 when ralph basically died right in front of barry just as iris would've and how Barry was able to save him. in a way, getting closure for what happened to iris.
Roy x Thea IS THE BEST RELATIONSHIP OF THE ENTIRE ARROWVERSE 💘
& that's not an opinion, IS A FACT
It’s an opinion 😅
No no, you right. The only ones that could’ve rivaled were SnowBarry and Barry and Patty imo. I know those are cliche, but idc
Great video man,
For future videos my advice is to use footage in the background that relates to the character you're talking about (It was kinda weird hearing about Patty/Caitlin for minutes while seeing Iris and Barry 💀)
I agree with a lot of your points here and yes I also agree that the ending of the third season should have been finished with her death! However I also think that it’s worth stating that Felicity smoak and even Supergirl are also prime contenders for who Barry could’ve ended up with! While Snowbarry is still my number one ship, either of those two would be awesome! Also yes good job standing up for Patty Spivot! Also it’s ridiculous to say that Barry having a good future depends on Iris surviving! That’s really dumb! You do indeed make many good points here although I also will admit that for me I started disliking Iris in the second season way before season three started because she just felt out of place to me. Her story arcs were so dull and I just wanted to get passed them and check in on other characters! Snowbarry is the true best ship for sure although I’m also a huge Superflash fan and I definitely say that I love fanfics about either of those pairs!
Can we just appreciate Joe West being the best dad he can be for Barry. He didnt have too but he stepped up to the plate too Barry under his wing and treated him as if Barry was his own son. And the early seasons really showed that i kinda clocked out of the flash after like season 4 i believe so I dont know if he still did it but god Joe was one of my favorite people on the show.
I remember really not liking Iris during the first season. But it was about halfway through that season after Barry confesses his love for her and she still chooses to be with Eddie. It was the episode where he meets Linda. Early on in the episode, Iris calls Barry and says she needs help with an article shes writing. So Barry drops everything he's doing to go help her, only for her to tell him that Eddie's mom was in town and they decided to meet her for dinner. That scene made me realize that Iris sees Barry as an option, whereas he sees her as a priority. That should've been a clear indication for Barry to move on. At that point, I wouldn't have minded one bit if the show shifted gears and hooked Barry up with someone else (preferably Patty or Caitlin.) It also didn't help in the second season that it seemed that Iris only wanted to get with Barry out of obligation for the future or destiny and probably saw him as a consolation prize after Eddie died.
It's similar to what actually happened in the first season of "Arrow." It was intended for Oliver and Laurel to be THE couple of the show. But like Iris, Laurel just came across as so unlikeable at the show's beginning. Then Felicity came along and the chemistry between her and Oliver was instant and obvious. So they decided to shift gears and make them the couple. It would've been intriguing to see Barry in a happy and healthy relationship with either Patty/Caitlin in the second season and beyond while Iris watches from the sidelines upset that Barry had moved on from her.
i thought barry and caitlin made for a better couple cuz of how they were written. the reason why barry and iris dont work is cuz the writers rushed their romance. S1 only barry was in live with iris and iris was with another dude. after he died the writers tried to make fans happy by sticking to the comics and just rushed iris falling for barry. what makes matters worse is the cw arrowverse was changing its structure. they started making the love interest so annoying, giving them powers, making them the leader of the team etc.
As a person who liked Barry and Iris as a couple and enjoyed seeing their scenes together. Your points are valid and they mirror some criticisms that I had about the series as it was airing. I like how you approached this topic and gave your opinions. 💕
I was willing to put up and try and defend Iris, up until the "We are The Flash". She went from "Why did you leave me" to that.
So do i need to explain your oblivious hypocrisy or…
@@KuroAceVT go explain
@@redwardranger7034 so it's okay when BARRY says it (which he did) but if anyone else says it it's not?
@@KuroAceVT because, I don't know, he's the actual Flash?
@@redwardranger7034 except he isn’t cus there’s multiple. Nice try. Earth 90, earth 3, hell even iris at one point. Or did someone forget that?
Some really good points
The idea of Patty being Barry love interest could of definitely worked however I think it’s would of been affected because in real life one of the producers had a problem with the actress and forced her to leave the show so that would of happened no matter what
Caitlin is a really interesting idea for a love interest the idea of Barry falling in love with Caitlin would of worked out really well they could of shown Caitlin having nightmares of Ronnie dying only this time Barry is in Caitlin position and Caitlin is in Ronnies position and the blast hits her and she becomes killer frost and kills Barry and they shed wake up and Barry would ask her about her nightmares! They could of done a lot with Barry and Caitlin being together it’s fun to think about maybe we still could of gotten Bart and Nora but just played by different actors
It's simple it was character assasination after character assasination from the writers and it's not just her
She was okay. I never hated her but liked Caitlin/Felicity/Supergirl better with Barry.
Funny enough i thought her and Eddy worked really well.
Her and Eddy were really good
I loved her and Eddy. They would've been really cute, and Eddy was such a good guy. Too bad his sacrifice literally meant nothing.
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who has this opinion. From day 1 never was a fan of the character
Damn it, Caitlin and Barry literally meant to be together. I mean there was a true chemistry between them and even when they argue to each other you can feel the tension in the air. Can't understand why they forced Iris and Barry relationship. Here is the point, Iris never loved Barry, he loved The Flash. You can easily say that Iris has a jealousy on Barry because of his abilities and reputation. And the line "You're not the Flash, Barry. We are the Flash." was the exact proof of this. (Dude, he is your step-brother why not be proud of him instead of trying to "get" him? Gross...)
i 100% agree 7:40; if your going to write a character that is gonna be alive till the end, avoid putting them in situation where their odds of survival is 2% out of 100%,death is unavoidable. and yet you make it to where they survive with no concrete plan. reason "they are one of the main character". putting budget aside, even though it very impotent but the least you can do is give a reasoning that actually makes sense.
I think you were spot on, don't get me wrong, I liked her at first, but the moment she took, she took a leadership role with in the team she was arrogant and had no understanding for the sacrifices that was needed in her mind it was OK for everyone else to make those sacrifices but as soon it effects her life its all unfair like when as you said when barry gave himself to the speed force so no one else in the city/world wouldn't die her immediate response was why cant Jay take your place she was always me me me and how she threw all of Barry's heroic sacrifices back in his face trying to make him out to be the bad guy or how about when Nora teamed up with his No.1 enemy The Reverse Flash and Iris made out to be no big deal but will have to say I loved it when Barry puts her in her place like when Iris tells barry his irrational thinking and actions are wrong then barry throws it back by saying you should look in the mirror at least I didn't put a dampening chip in our daughter suppressing who she truly is
That enough from me as I'm now ranting, lol
the future is pretty much guaranteed that if Iris died that Barry would fall into depression and the surviving time remnant would be neglected and become savitar, regardless of how much it doesn't sound like what team flash would do, it in a way already happened in the future, the only real way that they could've avoided it as I see it, is if they try really hard to avoid that future despite Iris's death, but by the sounds of it when Iris died, not anyone cared about what would happen next. the only reason I could see this changing is if someone from the future or past came to the present and made a difference, but I'm not sure if that could be someone of a different earth like supergirl though. This is my theory
The issue is that the gang are full of hypocrites :/ you’re right. They act like they’d care but it wouldn’t be shocking if they did a 180. I mean they willingly went and killed 3 people and tried killing another 2-3 and yet have the gall to act like they don’t kill and killing is bad.
After witnessing that future and learning that Savatar was a remnant of him Barry wouldn’t have created any remnants to fight Savitar. He could’ve just mourned the loss of Iris. No remnants, no fighting, no Savitar.
@@chaosrubix8750 did future flash ever find out who savitar was, because if he did that would mean it didn't change anything, if they don't confirm or deny it I'm going to assume it's an exact copy of the present
@@jagudragon9475 no that’s why Barry went into the future in the first place to find out who Savatar was and how to defeat him. He came back with Tracy Brand name that’s about it
As much as people don't like the CW Iris she couldn't have been replaced. She's Flashes Mary Jane. His Lois Lane. She's the girl that he ends up with every time. Making some random character or a platonic friend his one and only breaks the entire dynamic of the source material and series that is adapted from it.
Barry talked Caitlyn/killer frost down, when he let her out with the catch that she had to kill him. She couldn't and became Caitlyn again. I have a Playlist with one video for Barry/Caitlyn shipping fuel
(12:54) I agree. I will take it a step further and say it is insulting. Her job is to literally deal with meta-humans. It is like saying Joe should stay away for his safety even though he is a cop.
I have always been such a strong defender of the snowbarry ship. Everytime I see barry and caitlin interact I just imagine how much better they would be together than barry and iris. Because of how the writers set up barry and iris' relationship it felt so forced because it was supposed to be their "destiny." I always thought that was so stupid and I kept hoping that maybe the writers would somehow make barry and caitlin work out but they never did and it makes me so sad because it could've been so good :(
I think because it seemed like it was pushed for Barry to fall in love with Iris to be with her. Even though in the first season they made it seem like that Barry and Caitlin had more chemistry..
I think the big problem that iris faces, is she's meant to be the Mary Jane to Spider-Man. But in this case to the flash and I don't think it works out that way because even Mary Jane has more popularity but it wasn't until recently they gave her something to do like be a reporter role, then just copied on to Iris. At least, Patty was actually a trained cop and had some real credible resources to work with. Like he said in the video. I'm not saying iris didn't do anything to help in the show and she did eventually learn battle tactics on the field and battle experience. But I feel like Patty was far superior.
I would of preferred Barry ending up with Caitlin since they had a lot more compassion and they were more on the same page
I totally agree with your points I said similar things so back when I’d watch the show. They just tried to make her character into something that never was gonna work out so i don’t blame Candace much in this situation. I watched every season and liked the show for what it was and how good season 1 and 2 were. Like you said once season 3 came around one of my biggest complaints was that the show never had any consequences or pay offs. I never thought about it at the time but I think letting Iris die woulda been a good move and open up so many more opportunities the show could have taken. The writers really messed the show up bad even beyond the Iris relationship
I agree 100% that she was very good in the first few seasons. And I still had zero problems with her staying alive after season 3. The problem is that she has the same issue as all the CW superhero show female leads, in that they have no idea what to do with them after a while. This happened with Green arrow, Smallville, and the other shows and one's not on CW. This stuff happens in a comics as well. This is why Spider-Man can never have a good relationship with Mary Jane. Writers don't know how to write those relationships in the comic book worlds. Very few of them get them right. What happened with Iris would have happened with any female you put as a lead next to Flash or any superhero on the CW.
As a black woman, her race swapped *IS* important because of *WHY* they changed her race. They race swapped to virtue signal.
This is important because during Jim Crow, comics were not allowed to depict blacks as leads or hero’s, only sidekicks or villains.
After that ban was lifted, a lot of legendary comics wrote new & original black heroes (Black Panther, Black Lightning, Falcon, John Stuart, Vixin, Mr Terrific, Steel, etc).
This was their form of repentance & retribution for blacks, and they didn’t need to palette swap existing characters to do it because they didn’t want to just give “hand-me-downs” but something new, where the merits of the character is based on what they did vs what they looked like.
Ironically, showing race doesn’t make you a better hero, but rather it just shows there are more hero’s out there then just white people. And allowing writers to have more freedom, letting draw what they wanted, when they wanted it.
If studios & writers really cared, they would create new & original characters like they used to do.
Besides, for race swapping to work, it also relies on the consumer caring strongly if a characters is of a certain race, ie; “I don’t like it because there where too many_*insert race*__ in the show”.
Because either race doesn’t matter so we can write/draw anyone to be any race at any time (so we can turn black characters white),
or race does matter and we have to make sure everyone is represented equally in every project (checking of a check list & meeting quotas, removing all personal agency)
Or race matters to an extent, and people can freely pick and choose if they want to depict a race or not, but also holding them accountable for said depiction without restrictions (like how black superheroes got their start in comics)
Well said.
Totally written by a black person
To me the biggest issue was she is his sister
Like for real her dad calls Barry his son and they were raised that closely together. I am amazed this is never addressed.
If I was raised with someone and they and me had a sibling relationship then they said they were in love with me Id be like what??????
The childhood best friends to lovers troupe would be fine and acceptable..but there was no reason to have him taken in by Joe and raised by him! Its just wierd. Honestly having Barry be sent off to foster care or a relative and coming back years later and meeting Iris again would have made for better story telling anyway as we would see them reconnect and grow feelings for each other vs Iris just marrying her quasi adopted brother once her fiance bit the dust.
@@vianjelos exactly. When Joe calls him his son and it isnt a figure of dpeech its creept
We are the flash, thats the line and moment that ended cw flash for me
I wanted a redhead, I got someone like me. But I would never trade Joe, so I’m stuck with her
Caitlin all the way.
On the topic of Felicity, I find her the best when she basically fawns over ever hot guy. She was most fun single and being like, “Oh no! Oliver is hot! … Barry is hot! … Ray Palmer is hot!” like almost the voice of the audience. I mean, I’m not into dudes but I have eyes… and I just thought her trying to hit on everyone and everyone hitting on her was the most fun. 🤷♀️
Also, Caitlin gets pretty wasted later on. There was some dichotomy when she was sharing the body with Frost, and then basically Frost became the only relevant one, and FROST dated… and Frost did this and that… and Caitlin died… and then Kionne or whatever? Seriously wtf? If Caitlin was with Barry, maybe they wouldn’t have forgotten she was ALSO A GENIUS and how much she helped Barry at first. I mean, Team Flash was basically Caitlin and Cisco guiding Barry for a good while… but at some point Caitlin basically wasn’t even a scientist anymore and was barely the medic. Like, c’mon. So wasted.
The one thing I’ll say about Iris dying is… they would’ve just pulled the same crap they did with Black Canary. Remember Earth-2 Laurel? And honestly, I didn’t mind that. They did something interesting with her. The “good” Black Canary died (though, honestly, Laurel kinda sucked. It wasn’t until we got Dinah in like s6 or whatever that we had a truly good Black Canary, except I think Sara briefly was? But she’s best as White Canary, even if she used that name for like 3 episodes and just became “Sara” in Legends lmao)… and then evil Earth-2 Laurel reconnected with her father who showed her the love she never had or whatever, and she got redeemed and stuff…
But if they pulled a multiverse Iris it would’ve been garbage. I mean, imo Arrow and Legends had the best writers, followed by Flash, but it was a huge step down in quality already. Nevermind the other shows lol. No way the Flash writers could’ve done anything decent nor different with Earth-2 Iris when Arrow already did that with Laurel.
So either they would’ve had to kill Iris for good and never use a multiverse Iris, or at least not long-term… (maybe in something like Crisis we see an Earth-2 Iris WITH Earth-2 Barry)… or just pair Barry with his OTP Caitlin, anyway. Barry should’ve been like, “Iris is my sister. I want you to be my wife, Caitlin.” Because goddamn. He lived with her for like 15 years or something, and they hung out all the time even before Nora was killed. They’re siblings lol. And don’t get me wrong… I like the most popular xxx genre as much as the next guy… probably more than some, even… so it’s less of a problem for me… but when the chemistry is so much better with someone else, anyway? Why push that pair? The problematic one? 🤷♀️
I didn't think it was that big of a deal since he was 11 since he moved in but when you said it's been 15 years, God damn 💀
Thank u for being respectful of the actress that's very nice of you
Ngl, you had some points that sounded amazing(I don’t keep up with the Flash series anymore), but it’s pretty disrespectful to write off most, if not all, people who dislikes Irish being black as racist. I might not be one of them, but I can understand why ppl would be kinda frustrated that a character was altered for no other reason than seemingly brownie points for the audience(I’m okay with change if it actually matters/makes sense).
It does actually matter, the actor who played black Iris was black
I think the change in race makes sense for having Barry and Iris raised together. They would feel much more like siblings if they're both white. It's easier to go "Oh yeah, they're not related" when Iris is black.
Justice for Linda! Sure she wasn't there long but I LOVED their chemistry and I was so angry when she got written off. Grant Gustin and Candice Patton had zero chemistry and I honestly think the writers forced their relationship BECAUSE Candice Patton is black. There would have been social media outrage calling the writers and TPTB at CW of being racist if they had killed off Iris or gave Barry a different long term/main Love Interest. Especially if his new LI was Caitlin or Patty. Which is why Linda would have been the best choice😉😄
I do also think they didn't want to break up the "iconic" Barry/Iris because they had decided on Arrow that the main (superior Arrowverse couple!) was the non comic-accurate Oliver/Felicity. Changing the comic accurate LI once they could get away with but I don't think they believed they could get away with it a 2nd time. Personally, I believe if they had gone with Linda Park-no I'm never letting it go!-it would have given the audience the definitive belief that the Arrowverse is an ADAPTATION or to put in comic book speak, another universe different from the comics storyline.
Iris should have died in Season 3 and if they still wanted to do the Barry/Iris relationship there is no reason they couldn't have found a non-sister version of Iris in the multiverse to bring over. THAT would have been so interesting and maybe I wouldn't have the dropped the show halfway through season 5.
This is all new to me. As much as I love iris from the comics more, I like the CWs iris alot and pretty much like the show untill later seasons. 😂 I didn't know this option existed but thanks for letting me see the different side
I agree with the points you made. It felt like Iris's character was planned to die at the end of season 3, someone vetoed that at the very end, and from that point on in the series, no one knew what to do with her character. She was just constantly shoved into rolls that made no sense for her to be in.
It should’ve been Caitlin. And I stand by this.
As do I. Barry and Caitlin had a far better foundation than Barry and Iris ever did.
As do i
My issues with Iris(CW) is that She’s just too involved in Barry’s flash life. And not just Involved in it but she goes out of her way to meddle with it.
The whole Superhero x Civillian romance trope works because its two people so different finding some common ground and that common ground is comfy for them. And Said common ground is usually not related to neither of their Superheroism and their. Civillian duties.
(I think of the scene where Spiderman and MJ in the comics where they watch The sunset on NY on top of a bridge.Peter and MJ are Two opposite ends in their personal and professional lives.but they bond over their shared love over their city and their seep connections with it.which makes them fall in love even more with each other)
CW Barris doesn’t have that. It’s All about The Flash with the two of them which sucks because Iris takes the spot light from characters that were stablished way before her. While Barry is almost a non-factor in Iris personal life.(i don’t think we’ve seen Barry go to Iris work place or seen things that Iris Introduces him to.)
7:12 if they killed her they would have brought her back down the line anyways like they did in Arrow. These cw shows dont commit to these kinds of choices
I actually enjoyed CW Iris, though she was persistent and stubborn for better or worse, shes a pretty great girl boss, unlike other certain female characters she doesn't weaponize her gender to deflect or defend certain actions, she as a character tries to prove herself worthy of being useful to Barry, the team, and even the citizens of central city, I just see CW Iris as a general icon for a powerless somebody that's strong enough to help anyone, (and has incredible luck btw,) though she might have not had a grand impact like Joe, Cisco, or Eddie, the way she was introduced, and the many plot threads she was connected with, though confusing, she still seemed like an interesting variant in retrospect, (ps: if Iris died then Barry would've given up on life, we literally see what happens "after" iris died, Barry gives up, the team splits, and past Barry tries to bring them together after promising to save iris, and iris dying would completely convoluted the entire plot and story nutritive, and I don't care what anyone thinks, without iris I would've not been able to listen to the banger that is "Runnin home to you" from the musical episode, that shi was fire)
My most favourite love interest for Barry was always Kara, since the episode where Barry accidentaly got in her earth. I loved their every interaction, I felt of them as besties at first, but then I seen so much chemistry during crossover episodes, that I was very sad about them not being together.