Battle of the Budget 2011s! | Tisas - MAC - LFA
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- Опубліковано 23 кві 2024
- *Currently there is a glitch with UA-cam and it is turning off the comments feature. I am periodically coming back in here and turning them back on throughout the day. If they are off, please message us on Instagram at @qvo_tactical so I can turn them back on, thank you everything for watching!
In today’s video we are bringing what a lot of you have been asking for! We take some of the new budget double stacked 1911s or what some refer to as 2011s out on to the range and see how they each do for us. Let us know your thoughts on which one you’d pick up! Thanks to our buds over at Ventura Munitions for having these in stock locally for us to pick up, hey oh!
Tisas - B9R DS 1911
Military Armament Corp - MAC9 DS
Live Free Armory - Apollo 11
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It sucks when you buy a gun and it has problems. But, like the Prodigy, first editions always have "teething" problems. I was lucky to have bought my Prodigy 4.25 in December of '23 and it was made in August of '23. Had zero problems with it. Obviously, a gun manufacturer does not want unsafe/ troublesome weapons. So to those with problems, be patient. Never before has the industry been this awesome. They WANT to fix problems. In particular with something as competitive as the "Double stack" market. Great video, as usual. Thorough and educational ...... that is your brand, Mr. Barrera !!!!!!! Thorough and educational !!!!!!!!!! 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Appreciate that man. Thank you for taking the time to watch the video and leave some kind words. It means a lot to us. We definitely look forward to seeing the Apollo 11 back on the channel once it is over.
Boo springfield....they aren't 2A friendly.
The Prodigy is made pretty subpar with cast metals unlike other 1911’s that are forged. Not worth the 1,500 dollar price tag.
Bro. This is the review everyone has been waiting on. Thank you!!
The closest you can come to a Staccato without paying Staccato money is a Bul SAS II Tac 4.25. I have both. The Bul is an amazing value.
I love it when guns are tested from the bench at 25 yards. Well done guys. 👏👏👏👏👏👏
this is one of the better reviews that ive seen as you showed everything from malfunctions to tolerances
Thanks, appreciate you checking out the video.
Thank you Roger for the hard work to make this video. I am doing my research on these 3 for a future purchase, and this video allowed me to get a lot of info all at one time; so it greatly helped me.
In my opinion, the Apollo looks the best to my eye, however this and other reviews I have seen have shown the MAC DS to be a great performer. Plus it would be a nice cousin to my MAC JSOC.
Thank you Roger!
As always, you guys are great with your reviews..More power to all of you!! 👌👌👌👏👏👏
Finally someone. This review is gonna go up up up! In views
We hope so, thanks for watching!
Love to see other companies getting people into the 2011/DS 1911 platform. Great vid Roger and team! Actually love the opinions from the 3 of you throughout the vid 🤘 all great and educated shooters
The Apollo grip is 3D printed, it looks like a great firearm but I'm glad I went with the MAC.
3D printing should only be used for prototyping & proof of concept for the designers imo.
This. This is the video we've all been wanting to see. Thanks gents, I think I've made up my mind on what's replacing the P320 since I really don't want to shell out the money for a 226 X5 Legion.
Nice explanation of the bushing and bull barrel
Thanks I will let Landon know, we appreciate the feedback and checking out the video.
Tisas remains undefeated.
As a pistolsmith, I'll build bull of bushing pistols.
My take is if the bushing wears to the point of unacceptable accuracy, fitting a new undersize bore, oversize OD bushing will restore accuracy.
Once a bull wears the barrel and slide, it's more costly to have to buy and fit another match bull barrel. To each their own.
I have competition pistols built both ways and they all have round counts above 100,000 since built. The bushing gun had had 2new bushings fit during that time with the original barrel I built them with. I've had to replace the bull barrel one time, but at way more expense than redoing bushings
I am far from a "competitor", but what your saying makes sense. I never thought of that. 👍👍👍👍
Bull barrels are lazy manufacturers that cut out steps in the manufacturing process to save money and made up a good story to have you pay extra for the "upgrade. "
I agree with you on the Bushing. I purchased a new Tisas 1911 Carry SS45 and the bushing to barrel fit was a little loose to my liking. I measured the OD of the Barrel and the ID of the Bushing Bore in the slide and ordered an EGW Gunsmith Fit Carry Bevel Angle Bore Bushing. EGW machined the Bushing to match my dimensions and the resulting accuracy was phenomenal.
@@gregbrakefield7286 I did the same and the results were fantastic!
KnifeMaker
Good video thanks! Looking forward to an update with a different grip module on the Apollo; have heard the prodigy grip may work, but I'm thinking metal it will be interesting to see what you come up with hey oh!
I think you missed the opportunity to point out that the MAC is actually built by Tisas.
I thought that was already pretty well-known, but we will have a full video dedicated on the Mac when we do some mods to it most likely. Thanks for checking out the video.
@@RogerBarrera Maybe it is. I'm fairly new to diving into the world of 2011's. Looking forward to the full review.
Its well known
Didn't know
W/ love, It's understood dude. Thanks for being here though!
Hey once again Roger I watched this video again and I have decided on my project pistol I was undecided for a minute but watching this has helped me big time on my decision. That you guys very much... Damn good content! Oh, tell Marco to loosen up a bit, Lol... 😎
This was a very well made review. Most people have to stretch their funds make every dollar count. The average Joe can grab any one of these and make upgrades as they wish. Most guys can't buy a Ferrari but a Mustang is far more accessible and can be upgraded as time goes. These options seem to be in that later category. And I'm sure there are plenty off the shelf upgrades for these. Again, a well done review which most can appreciate.
Thank you! Really appreciate you taking the time to check it out and leave us some kind words. Means a lot to us. Glad you enjoyed the video!
Your edits with the splits on screen are great, and I appreciate the effort put into displaying the info.
I appreciate that! Thanks!
great review! IMO Tisas would be my choice.
Damn good job Roger..!!! This helped me to make a decision on my project pistol. 😎
Awesome video! MAC seems to be doing a great job for the price.
Thanks .. great video I just got my Mac 9
Great to hear! Thank you for checking it out. We appreciate the support.
Excellent video! Great comparison
Glad you liked it!
I enjoyed this review of three guns side by side. Nice.
Love the Budget 2011s. Side bar, just got my 6th holster from you guys in the mail that I ordered on April 5. It is PERFECT. Tiffany Blue Kydex with Blue Komodo cotton wrap, for my P07 with 7A light. perfect fit and it is GORGEOUS. Thanks guys for the fast turn around time way under you 4-6wk lead time. Been wearing it all day since noon when i grabbed it from the mail box
Right on! Thank you for support. We greatly appreciate that. We’ve had some new molding come in, which is definitely helped us speed up our lead time. We are actually down to 2 to 4 weeks right now on the website for custom holsters, which is awesome. Thank you again we appreciate everything!
@@RogerBarrera Awesome thats great the lead time is down!
Just bought the Apollo 11. The 3d printed grip module broke on mine and had the exact same problem. Had a spare prodigy grip module and fitted it to the Apollo 11. Runs fine.
Oh dang, that’s good info! Appreciate the heads up! We’ll update everyone with what we hear from LFA about ours. Thanks for checking out the video!
Very thorough analysis and testing of each gun
Thanks!
I really want the Apollo compact
I have 3,500 rds through my LFA Apollo 11 now and it's run amazing, got plenty of videos on it , very accurate, everything I've done to it was preference not necessary, but changing the recoil spring to a 9lb was game changing lol
Heck yeah, that’s good to hear. Hopefully we can get ours back and have a similar experience.
Amazing in depth review of the budgets, maybe in the future mid tiers..prodigy, bul tac 4.25, staccato P...or higher unobtainable for us poors tier..atlas, tti, legion or infinity
@RogerBarrera I think a better way to look at the B9r DS is that they purposely built that gun with Carry in mind and that is why it has the RMR/C footprint instead of the fullsize competition biased RMR cut like the MAC. That would also explain the GI style dust cover and guide rod, and the bushing barrel style which saves on weight on the beltline. That would be my assumption anyways. Great Video guys thank you. Love those Turkish pistols probably best value on market today IMO.
My LFA Amp did the same as the Apollo had to break it in, and it shoots fine now.
The Apollo can be a very very good pistol, but you have to massage it a bit to get it there. The first thing I noticed on both of mine was they were WAY under sprung. Something your guys also commented on. Those FTF’s will go away quickly with the right spring weight. I have two full size and found that one preferred a 13# whereas the other liked a 12#. The next thing is the grip module. It’s junk. Gets soft and spongy in the hands after heavy use. Has gritty trigger bar channels, etc. Nice thing is, Staccato gen1 grips fit nice and the gen 2 will fit with a bit more work to the grip. But I am now running the Prodigy grip on both of mine. Very little fitting required. Internals are great on these. Not sure who makes them, but I have not found a MIM part in the internals. Safety was MIM, and it appeared that the sear pin was bashed in to get it to fit to the right side of the thumb safety. Replaced that with a single side now and a new grip safety blended into the frames nicely. They can be good guns with a little love… 😂
It's incredibly unfair, to a 2011 especially, to pull a gun out of the box, NOT LUBE IT, and then judge it based on not completely going into battery on the first few 100 rounds.
I had a sti eagle i ended up selling to buddy who used it for competition. That mac and tisas making me want a 2011 again
They all look nice
Grabbing a snack and gonna watch this!!
Hey oh!
@@RogerBarrera Ya'll doing gods work with the holster fitment!!! THANK YOU!!!
@@sdsimports for sure! We wanna get some more stuff on the channel! That night stalker double stack 😎😎😎
@@RogerBarrera you got my inbox deets?
I'm having the same issues with my 2 day old Apollo 11 4.25". This video helped me to understand the trigger situation. I couldn't quite describe it when it happens to me. You definitely have to have a tight upper grip on the grip safety.
I've ran about 500 rds of Maxxtech 124, Remington UMC 115 and 124 and Blazer 115 combined. For some reason, UMC 115 ran perfect. Blazer had 1 or 2 light primer strikes, UMC 124 had 6 LPS's and Maxxtech 124's wouldn't run worth crap. I'm talking 30 LPS's and about 10 FTF's in 150 rounds.
I'll shoot LFA an email and get ready to send it back. I was aware of the 5" issues but was hoping that they had been worked out in the 4.25".
Great vid guys.
Thanks man! I appreciate you checking out the video and I’m glad it helped you out with any issues on yours. Please update us with what they tell you. Thanks again.
31:00 That's funny. I'm having the same exact issue with my Tisas. I sent it to SDS for warranty.
What about the Girsan 2311 or the Rock Island?
Great Vid.
Would love the hear what the trigger pull weights on all 3.
Also any word from LFA on the issues?
I have two tisas 1911 pistols both in 45acp. Fantastic pistols for the money. I have a duty and carry model. I found two lights that will fit on the short pic rail. One is the 850 lumen Nightstick full size light and the cmr-207 made by Crimson Trace. I wish they would put a full size pic rail on their 1911 carry 1911 4.25 and 2011 4.25 barrel models. I carry both as an armed security guard.
My Apollo had the same trigger hang issue. The trigger bar was moving inside the grip and hanging on the magazine. They replaced the grip and mainspring and it fixed the problem.
Super good to hear! Thanks for the info.
My Apollo compact had this problem as well, sent it back two weeks ago and still have yet get it back.
The gun definitely has some growing pains but they will get it right.
I totally understand the reasoning for your ammo pick,, but I wonder what the tests would be using Sig Sauer,, or Speer? Great video. Thank you. God bless.
The full size Tisas is able to mount a fullsize light. Just some food for thought there.
The Mac mounts my tlr1 just fine.
I think Tisas has a more Gucci model too. Great video
great info thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Roger!!! This video is not good for my bank account!!!
Would love the full, exact name of each firearm in the description if possible!
Thank you for checking out the video! If you think about it, it’s actually good for your bank account. You could pick up all three of these and still be under the cost of other higher end 1911/2011 guns. 🤣😂🤣
I also added the three names as requested in the description of the video. Thanks again for checking it out.
@@RogerBarrera man, thanks so much! Would love to hear your thoughts on these compared to the mid tier 2011s like bul armory. Hey ohhhhhhhh
Thanks for the in depth review of these three side by side. A question for you- you stated that you had not lubed the pistols and they were just out of the box, then later you said you had lubed with gun butter when discussing the Oracle having problems. Was the unlubed portion just the first shots section? Regardless, a good look at three options, thanks.
Nah, I think they just needed some break in. Thats typical for the 1911/2011 platform. The first couple of malfunctions didn’t bother me as it didn’t continue. The issue for me was the trigger internals malfunctioning with the Apollo 11 after 300 rounds. We’ll do an update video once we get the gun back. Thanks for watching.
This was a great comparison video. I only own the Mac 9 and it runs well. I like how heavy it’s sprung.
Ria is where it’s at
Any thoughts on the rock island armory 9mm tac ultra or pro match?
I had the exact same issue with the trigger not engaging on my Apollo 11. I swapped it to a prodigy grip because the A11 grip just felt so cheap and mags were not dropping free. The issue persisted in the prodigy grip. I then put in the oem prodigy trigger and never had the issue again. So I think there may be something off in the dimensions of the trigger bow on the A11.
I’ve had 4 Staccatos. Also recently picked up a 5” b9r ds. Curious how the Tisas b9r ds stacks up compared to a prodigy though.
The Full size Tisas DS does take a full size light it’s the smaller Carry Tisas that has a different rail that has light issues
Man I do want a 5" just so that I can get that flush aesthetic look with the x300 Turbo. I think the Tisas should have a X300 for added weight on the front, a bit unfair for the others to have on.
Also, I'd be interested to see how the Tisas would do if it had a bull barrel like in the LFA. At the price point you could certainly add one and be under one of the other pistols.
Big OOF on those LFA malfunctions, but that grouping looked good when you shot them standing, not so much on the bench.
The Tisas was the only one without malfunctions thus far and that bench zero group is amazing for the price point and non bull barrel. It might be due to the fact that it has the bushing. But for the price, you can't beat that.
I imagine it will be smoothed out even more after a few thousand rounds. I'd likely add a bull barrel, maybe a better trigger, get a proper spring. Seems like a winner.
I definitely did like the Tisas, and I agree I wish that it had an X300 as well, but that was one of the cons about the Tisas. We talk about it in the full video on the B9R DS. The rail that they utilize is not long enough to put a full-size weapon light on. That’s why it did not have an X300. We are working on custom keys that will allow for full-size lights to work on their very short rail. The other issue is that since the rail is so short, the two side clamping pieces are only making contact with about 60%. I hope that makes sense. Thanks for watching!
@@RogerBarrera man I hadn't watched the other video, that's bonkers. I may wait for the full length rail that they will inevitably release as not having a full size light is a non-starter for me. I wonder if the Modlite PL350 has the same issue?
Throw on a Briley oribital barrel bushing and check the shot groups.
Check the main spring housing pin. Installed a night hawk trigger into my staccato p, the main spring housing pin bored the the pin hole and my trigger started acting similarly to your description. I was frustrated so I bought a staccato c
Would you pick the Mac 9 over the prodigy?
Dang, I was looking at the LFA Apollo 11 as a "beginner" 2011-style pistol. Looking forward to the update video and what LFA says was going on with your gun. I haven't seen that particular issue in other videos on it, just ammo-related and magazine-related stuff.
I think I'm just gonna send it and get a Springfield Prodigy. It's a little more than the LFA, but the newer Prodigies don't seem to be having the problems that plagued them at launch a couple years ago. It's also the only 2011-style pistol (besides Staccato themselves) that comes with an optic plate system (that I know of) so you're not tied to just one red dot.
Get the mac 9 ds not the prodigy
@@jerestolp02 Yeah I thought about that too. It has an RMR cut, right? I could put an SRO on it with that. I wanted an Acro cut or a plate system so I could have both, but oh well.
I was wondering if you guys would do a 2011 style video like this but with 10 mm. I am currently on the fence between the 2311 witness and the Rock Island HC tac ultra.
Can you do a review on the oracle arms 2311?
We need a Platypus review!
Should also have a light on the Tisas, if not possible then no lights at all IMO. Effects Muzzle flip and recoil impulse.
Disagree, one my complaints is that the Tisas can't take a fullsized weapon light. This shows precisely why it should have a normal length rail like the others.
Would like to see a review of the Walther PDP Pro SD vs the S&W M&P polymer compact.
There are tons & tons of vids on all those! Absolutely zero reason to keep on & on.
How people get better zeroing accuracy vs. that at 20+ yards is beyond me. My groups benchrested with my Staccato P and striker guns look exactly like that using factory 115/124.
18:32 he just said before gripping that the scs is blooming out so you can’t dial it down the way you would to group out that far, I think you should give it a new assessment, with a red dot that could have a manual brightness adjustment.
Nah, gun grouped fine for me even with that dot. If I’m getting all hits on a 6 inch circle at 25 yards I’m happy. Especially when it’s barrel bushing instead of bull barrel. The B9R DS is great in my opinion. I just don’t like that. They went with the smaller optic footprint and the shorter rail. I think for the price though it is great! Thanks for checking out the video.
Hail from Central WY,
'Budget' is a relative term!
I get $943 a month on SSI, can't work anymore, and as you can see, a gun that would cost me 66% or MORE of my entire monthly income is a non-starter!
Are there any USED offerings of these and at what prices for those in good shape?
Cheers from the Oil Patch in Central WY
Do you guys have a holster that would fit the lfa compact Apollo 11?
My only hang up with a 2011 commander style double stack like the MAC is why did they not make it in 45acp. That is not to say I have anything against 9mm, but have several and just like the tried and true 45acp...and a commander length slide with a full size grip with SDS price point...would be great
How does the MAC 9 stack up against the Prodigy?
Did any of you guys drop any of the pistols and how did if function after the drop.
Thought I’d share that the MAC shoots flatter than the Stacatto CS. Yeah it’s only a 3.5 barrel compared to the MAC but it’s worth sharing I think. I may sell the Stacatto now as the MAC is pretty good stock. It’s heavy and flat shooting. Now compare it to the bigger Stacatto I’ll sure it’s a different story.
So the tisas DS is the best gun by far as performance, price, and reliability
I like the bill drill but i really like the pizza boy challange
Should label the targets with gun names in the future.
Okay Roger, I love this video... Just to let you know I purchased the MAC 9 DS for $829 new from my FFL. What up grades do you all suggest to make it close to Staccato P level or close??? 😎
Dude nice! Smoking price on that one. Just get a bunch of trigger time behind it man, it’s sweet!
@@RogerBarrera Okay, I was thinking of getting trigger work shielded safety... Good thinking or what??? 😎
@@Thomas-vt7cz I’d wait and see how you like it after a few thousand rounds.
@@RogerBarrera Oh damn man... Sometimes I am impatient like the facts and get it over with..! 😎
Sint have staccato money tisas will be just fine
I think k im get the EDC pro when it comes out from BUL armory it’s gonna be around $2,000
Stay tuned 😎
Marco wearing flip flops in the 🏜️😎 desert?😁
😎
I purchased the Apollo 11 compact in black and it will be delivered next week I hope I don’t have any of those issues 🤦🏻♂️
Keep us updated, they responded quickly when my FFL reached out and seems like their customer service is pretty on point. We will make an update when we hear back.
From what I understand, the compact has been updated based on feedback from earlier models. All new models of the Apollo should have less issues.
Thank you guys for the information.
Could you please review the Jacob Grey TWC9? Awesome video by the way!
MAC or Prodigy?
Why would you not clean and lube first, like the instructions tell us??? I’m new. But I read the books.
Good video showing all these guns and their faults. I think this clearly shows that if you want a 2011, just save the money for a good one. The one guy was talking about toyotas and Ferrari comparing common SF guns vs 1911/2011 is right in a way. The design might be a Ferrari but if you spent toyota money, expect it to be worse than both.
Hey, cmon….. even the hedious looking Moxie came out with a double stacked pistol for the 2024 model year.
I hear ya but as far as shoot ability, the Tisas and the Mac9 did great. Mac9 has very similar features to other very high-end 2011s. I definitely plan on doing a lot more with that specifically. Appreciate your check out the video though thank you.
This was a awesome video. Very informative. Have you got your hands on a Plataypus yet?
Not yet! Soon hopefully!
Wow didn't expect such a quick reply. Already ordered 1, but would love to see your opinion.
@@elberthereford1004 thanks! Hopefully soon!
Is that a new version of the apollo 11 where they fixed the disconnecter hang up and replaced all the mim parts with cnc... U should try the lfa 4.25
This is the Apollo 11 4.25 unfortunately. I think the issue is there 3-D printed grip module. We will see you when it comes back to us from LFA.
What optics are you running on the tisas and Apollo
Holosun SCS and EPS
Kinda strange to be so kind to the LFA. If it doesn’t work… is it really a good option? It’s dope looking but if you have those type of problems I feel like ya gotta tell us it’s a no go until further notice.
I can’t say it is a no go until I find out what the issue is. I am a sample size of one. I don’t feel that it is fair to any company for me to base everything off of the one experience. Everybody is human and mistakes happen. If it is not addressed appropriately then I will discuss that in my follow up video. I’ll be sure to update everyone. Thanks for checking out the video.
i know its a cosmetic gripe, but the frame serrations on the LFA bothers the shit out of me. its so damn goofy for no reason.
Roger could be Brandons brother, if he is not already.
I'd get the Tisas DS in 5 inches..... becauer IRL I've never been 5"......😅
BWahahha 🤣😂
How would you compare these 3 against Springfield prodigy?
The Prodigy is over rated. Not any better than what was in the video.
People were paying extra for the Springfield name more than the quality it was suppose to represent.
This is why I was asking the people who review guns for work their opinion!. I own a prodigy and think it shoots well and I don’t consider Springfield as a good “name” that’s what I consider staccato to be
@@mattklein8752 …. You’re looking for someone else’s approval for your option to buy an inferior product and now you need to escape that buyer’s remorse because you were too impatient to wait another payday so you could afford a real Ferrari instead of a Ferrari body on a Wolkswagen drivetrain. Ohhh the pain!
Girls do the same thing when they buy those designer jeans that give them that ‘LardAsche’ look and ask: “do these jeans make my butt look big”
@@mattklein8752he answered this question a few comments above yours. Here’s what he said. “I'd say the prodigy and the Mac9 feel very similar. I like that you get a magwell with the Mac9 but I don't like the sights that they have for their optic plate. I like the optic plate system of the prodigy so it's kind of give-and-take, depending on what matters more to you between the two.”
@@getrippt thank you I missed that
Would you trust your life with any of the 3 ?
The Apollo grip is 3D printed and the major downfall of the pistol in my opinion. I replaced the grip on my Compact with a Gen 1 STI grip and all has been great since.
One suggestion. Even if you were given an "Industry Discount" call out the street price at time of filming like you did with the Tisas.
For sure appreciate it. I give them at the end of the video because I had to go look em up again. Didn’t remember at the beginning 😂🤣. Good tip though. Thanks!
@@RogerBarrera ahhhh gotcha, 10 mintues in now, :)
Which IWB holster would fit the MAC 9DS on your website?
The More Discreet under “Other 2011s”
@@RogerBarrera Thank you
I got the Tisas all forged i can make it work
Bull Armory?
Bull barrels are installed by lazy manufacturers. The only advantage you get from them is they cannot break. A bushing can be easily and cheaply fitted if necessary. It can also be replaced easily and cheaply if you happen to wear it out.
Fat bull barrels do not dissipate heat faster.