The problem is my family does not act like family, more like enemies and bullies. And I have no idea how close my friends feel to me. I end up always caring more.
That makes me sad to hear, I’m sorry you’re dealing with that. 😞 You may be one of those people whose closet personal relationships are with “chosen family”, AKA, friends. ❤️🩹
Same here. Worse, I'm under 18 so I have to live with them. They can be great one minute and horrible the next and if I try to tell them that they're stressing me out, they say it's just "teenage drama". My youngest brother outright despises me unless he wants me to do something, my mom screams all the time, my dad hates computers and wants to shoot them regardless of the fact that I have friends whom I can only contact through email, and my other brother simply doesn't care about anyone or anything.
FunFact: I read about a DNA study that found that in prehistoric nomadic hunter gatherer tribes, only 10% of members shared familial DNA. Apparently during the massive annual gatherings and feasts of many tribes, humans often left their family groups to join other "chosen family" groups! _Only ten percent related!_ This is how humans naturally are! I find it so helpful to know this!
Even though I just turned 30, I sometimes still need this diagram illustrated in my head because there are times where I’ll overstep a layer without realizing it which sometimes leads to people giving me weird looks or just fast paced walking away without saying anything. It’s very difficult not to hate myself afterwards.
Oh geez! Try not to hate yourself! Remember you are your own most important relationship! ❤️ Other people can do some learning as well. Communication is a two- person activity so a miss-communication is a chance for two people to learn.
Don’t beat yourself up about it. This happens to everyone at some point, we all make mistakes. Generally people don’t remember the things that we felt embarrassed over. Neurotypical people do this too. It’s fine.
Another thing to note is that it’s important to communicate with people about their own personal boundaries and preferences. You could have an acquaintance who just likes hugging people and would be fine with that, or a closer friend who doesn’t like being touched. It’s important to ask people what their boundaries are, and personally, I like informing people that I have difficulties picking up on subtle hints about things like that, so if they feel uncomfortable or want to establish their personal boundaries, I can let them know that it’s best for them to be direct
That's a great point! I get overstimulated fairly easily by touch, so for me, touch is very occasional, and reserved only for the closest people in my life, like my family. Even many good friends I've had, I feel very weird about touching. I will make myself shake someone's hand on meeting them to be courteous, but even that is pretty uncomfortable. I've moved somewhere where hugging is as casual as shaking hands (and have been hugged by people before I even know their names sometimes) and it's so weird to try to figure out how to say "please don't do that". Especially because people in this area are weirdly pressure-y about touch, like wanting to stand hand in hand or with arms around each others shoulders, just as casual team building type stuff. Every time I ask to be excluded everyone laughs it off and refuses to take no for an answer, or looks at me like I'm crazy if I stop being able to hide being upset (after asking clearly and politely not to be touched and then them attempting to touch me anyway) Sadly that's just the culture here. And I am glad for people who can use physical touch to connect with people they don't know well! It's lovely that they can use that to form a bond and feel closer to others. I just wish that there was room for a second option here too without people seeing revoking touch as weird or hurtful or rude, and that consent over who has permission to touch you at all was treated as seriously as it is in intimate relationships. If the ability to revoke consent to be touched by your partner is seen as crucial to a healthy relationship, it feels like people should take that even more seriously for platonic touch in platonic relationships, since the nature of that relationship doesn't carry any implication of sharing your body with the other person. Funnily (but not surprising), the people who I am close enough with that I don't mind them touching me are never the ones who make me feel uncomfortable, and always respect my consent. They never get offended if I can't handle being touched that day, or will do brief touches like leaning our heads on each other's shoulders instead of a hug if I'm too overwhelmed for that much contact but still want to express affection.
I love this concept and saw a similar infographic earlier this week. It was more of a pyramid than an onion, but had these "layers of closeness" clarification re: different types of relationships. Us autists tend to want to jump into the close friend pool a little more quickly than allistic people tend to want to.
I feel that! I often thought "everyone is my friend immediately upon meeting me" was a me thing but maybe it's an autistic thing. But how to tell the difference between this attitude being friendly and welcoming vs overwhelming or creepy? I'm fine knowing not everyone will vibe with me, but I want to make sure I don't make someone uncomfortable or violate *their* boundaries
This is why I got annoyed when my mum told my friends I had a symptom of food poisoning at 16. In this context the onion was that family at the centre followed by professionals with friends a bit further out. They didn’t need to know the symptoms. My mum assumed that they would be ok knowing as they’re my friends. The layers change depending on the situation too - social dynamics are complex
It needs like a layer between like "professional helper" and "acquaintance" for like "people I work with/ go to school with" - they aren't necessarily there to help us lean something new, but we're also closer than just talking and seeing each other sometimes.
@@Dionaea_Mbut that's how to make friends. You talk to the people you see regularly, and that makes you acquaintances. And then you take a friendly acquaintance and do a "friends" thing like going out for a coffee or bowling, and if this keeps happening now you're friends. You can't make friends without taking to people you don't know.
Thank you for making these videos. As a neurotypical guy in his twenties, I'm surprised how many things I take for granted. Understanding these boundaries has never caused any problems for me. So, being informed about the same concept from the point of a view of an autistic person definitely helps me relate to their struggles. These videos help me move away from the attitude "Are you serious!? You gotta be kidding me. How's it possible that you don't know/understand x?" towards "Oh, now, I see that this concept is rather complex, and I understand the struggles people may have with it." One thing I struggle with is how to explain these kinds of things to an autistic adult without making that person feel like a child or being seen as stupid when I do so. Do you guys have any suggestions?
I think most people appreciate the use of simple / plain language when explaining a tricky concept. You might notice in my videos how I’ll use very basic language to illustrate new concepts. People have responded well to it. I think tone has a lot to do with it. So long as your tone is neutral or positive, most people don’t mind a simple explanation. 😆
Something that also might help, is to ask if a particular thing is something that they struggle with. They may even have similar solutions but just needed someone to brainstorm with. Make it more of a conversation and suggest ideas and if they like them, then direct them towards the resources you had in mind. She says a lot of times that not all tools are for everyone. So think of it as seeing if it’s something they’re interested in, more so than making it feel like they need to do a specific thing to achieve something. I guess I’m saying, make it an option and not a rule/chore/something mandatory and it would maybe reduce that feeling ❤
it might help to ask first IF they want it explained, or if right now is the right time for the explanation. basically, i think it's both timing and how you frame things if you broach the subject in a way that sounds like being graded by a teacher or tutor or something, that might get a different reaction than bringing it up in a casual "i saw a video i thought you might find interesting!" fun fact kind of way, or like a heartfelt/somewhat vulnerable "i noticed that this seems to be something that troubles you, can i try to help?" but even the most situationally appropriate framing might not be immediately well-received if the person is already overloaded on socializing, or isn't even thinking about social constructs at the moment and feels blindsighted by going from the familiar scripts of y'all's usual conversation to talking ABOUT scripts and conversation etc on a meta level... or if they'd prefer you text the explanation to them so they can digest it on their own time and refer back to it if they want to because right now they can't concentrate bc of a distracting noise or something lol but every individual is different! and may have different preferences for how they'd prefer to talk (or not) about this sort of thing. you might be able to guess based on previous interactions with the person, but this might be a situation where just being straightforward and discussing conversational boundaries/preferences could help edit to add: if i've gotten too complicated here let me know. pragmatics/social linguistics/communication etc are a special interest 😅
@@hp8685 Thank you for your reply. I'm also an amateur linguist and speak several languages fluently. So, nothing in your comment felt confusing. I've tried texting once (on the most recent attempt), and it worked well, because it allowed both me and the other person to formulate our current understanding and to edit each other's text to better reflect what we were saying. I've found that they don't understand metaphors at all. A customer representative was able to use a metaphor once, but I've always failed at it. Metaphors have been a core part of my explanation process. So, not understanding them has led to me being frustrated. I'll keep using the texting method as it has had the best results. So far, and it's the only time when I haven't raised my voice in frustration.
this was worded so well. I also wish more people were this considerate! unsolicited advice can be so intrusive, whether you just don't want it or the timing is wrong.
In high school, I was obsessed with looking at diagrams like this (and diagrams of facial expressions, because those smiley face emotions they show you in early childhood look nothing like human faces). I had no idea how to interact with anybody, so I was constantly researching ways I could improve my ability to blend in. I'm kind of thankful one of my most intensive interests has been human interaction, because I think I might have had a hard time without that information. On the other hand, it's kind of lengthened my self-exploration, because I have existing learned habits for social situations that are exhausting to use, but hard to break. To clarify: I don't have any sort of neurodivergent diagnosis, but I've strongly suspected that I might have ADHD and/or be on the spectrum for a while now. I'm working to find good professionals in my area. From the information I've gathered, I definitely don't think I'm neurotypical.
It's quite common for autistic people to be undiagnosed, especially females. An estimated 2% of the population is autistic, but most people can't recognize autistic traits outside of the heavy stereotypes. Those stereotypes are mostly associated with male children. Most people don't realize that they come across dozens if not hundreds of autistic people whenever they go to work or go shopping. Society has zero tolerance toward males when it comes to showing vulnerability. "Be a man" and "boys don't cry", they say. Although girls are just as likely as boys to be autistic, significantly more males get diagnosed. When a boy doesn't seem to comprehend that they should act tough, society labels them as having a mental disorder. That's why boys are more likely to be diagnosed with autism. It's more easily detected. While girls are lucky to not be abused by society whenever they show vulnerability, this has the ironic effect of making them less likely to be diagnosed with autism. Autistic behavior is more tolerated by society when the person is female. Undiagnosed autistic girls quickly become aware that they have trouble fitting in. They look for ways to mimic allistic behavior. This is called masking. Like you said, it's extremely exhausting and stressful. It's a dangerous coping mechanism that is hard to break. Kaelynn is a perfect example of an autistic woman with ADHD who doesn't mask. She's lucky to have supportive friends and family. I wish all of society could be this supportive. They should be teaching this in school. I'm neurotypical, by the way. I would have loved learning about all of this as a child. The world would be a much better place if there wasn't so much hate and intolerance.
holy shit one of my friends is autistic too and her spIN is social interaction and its funny bc every allistic she meets is like "you should be a sociologist or a child psychologist!"
I came up with a similar model but called it a solar system to get me through high school. It helped a ton, especially since I was pretty shy so rather than overshare I had trouble trusting friends with information similar to what they had shared with me. Putting people into orbits helped a ton!
Thank you so much for this. I am coming to terms with being an undiagnosed autistic man. I’m 47 and still at risk for putting myself in harmful situations. Just last week I was almost lured into a strangers apartment after they talked me into giving them a ride. I came to my senses as we were about to go inside and they told me that they needed to use me phone. This is so embarrassing to admit but I want to be a cautionary tale. People can use your empathy against you if you don’t have clear boundaries.
I understand the reason to have something like this and how it could help some people but I've also found that I find it incredibly difficult to reduce relationships that are often extremely multifaceted into something this... restricting? Like 'family' or 'friends' are such broad terms that can have a lot of different variations in information sharing and physical boundaries. ( I am autistic and I find that for me it tends to inhibit me from 'simplifying' stuff like this.)
In that case, this tool might not be particularly useful to you. Every tool isn’t for every person. I am a strong believer in having a variety of tools because what helps one person will not necessarily help another. Thank you for adding your perspective! 💕
@@KaelynnismThank you - I also think I'm a person who has trouble with the categorization part rather than the appropriateness of actions within each category, and was feeling somewhat bewildered by how one could use this and inadequate for feeling so confused. A good reminder that that just means this isn't a tool that addresses my difficulties.
not to be morbid but bc i feel like the onion is so incredibly western coded and didnt apply to my life, the way i thought about it was, "how sad would i be if this person died" as a kid id probably be more sad if my best friend died or my next door neighbor (basically a second mom to me) than my grandmother (mean and lived in another state) so im more likely to tell my best friend or neighbor about my diarrhea . i think everyone conceptualizes things differently
@@kukachoo42 While I don't think I've ever done this in order to categorize my relationships, I have very much done this in some twisted way of making myself 'prove' that I care about people .. we all have our methods I guess /lh
@@kukachoo42I definitely understand and relate to this even tho I was born and raised in the US so I tend to have a more western view of certain things but I still get why this specific tool wouldn't really work well for someone who's from a completely culture. I do think that the onion can be modified to better fit different people's experiences tho. Like I personally believe that friends can be family and family doesn't have to mean who you're biologically related to. Your neighbor can definitely be part of who you see as family, it could also be a teacher that you have a really strong bond with or even the local librarian. But I do agree that this specific tool isn't effective for everyone and I actually like your "how sad would I be if this person died?" method, it's relatively short and simple, doesn't matter if it's morbid as long as it works for you lol.
my issue has been consistently where people actually are in my onion, often i do not care if a coworker doesnt want to know i have chronic stomach issues, coworkers tell me things i dont need to or want to know all the time, and when i express my boundaries theyre often treated as hysterics by others in general yet others will allow me to think of them as closer to me than they actually are for extended periods of time then lash out at me explosively as if i have somehow forced them to interact with me i am not responsible for the prison of “social decorum” others build for themselves being told by someone you arent their friend sucks but thinking someones your friend for months-years and them acting like you forced them to respond to your texts for months is a hell dug by one made for two and i was not holding the shovel
I wholeheartedly agree with this. In my experience, autistic people communicate their relationship boundaries far more clearly than allistics. Allistic people, as a generalization, seem to assume obligation where there isn't any. So if I ask an allistic person to a party and they don't want to go, they may go anyway because they feel they "should" or they "have to". Most autistic people I know will just say they don't want to go. It is much simpler that way and does not leave me guessing if a person is sincere. I do not know why allistic people cannot do that.
I may be misunderstanding, but I think what you’re describing are people who just take in relationships. There are plenty of people who will talk about themselves all day long, share personal info you didn’t ask for, which often makes people think they might have a closer bond. But the second you share a story or need something, they act as though you’re demanding too much and have indignation that something isn’t about them for once. Those people should be avoided. They will never reciprocate anything and as you’ve mentioned, struggle with the boundaries of others.
I feel that this situation happens to me when people have been "playing nice" by tolerating my oddness and then when the day comes that they're in a bad mood or just tired of getting annoyed by me, they'll let on that we're not friends. This was taught from childhood to them as "good manners" to tolerate and not be so direct that they don't want to be your friend. Just sharing my experience because I related to your scenario, hope this helps💜
I feel like I have always been hyper aware of my onion - though I didn't call it that. I just have really particular ideas of my relationships with people, like little bubbles, that are very difficult to cross over from one to another. and I have hurt a lot of peoples feelings by informing them of their place in my onion, without realizing their idea of our relationship was different... For example, work friends are not the same thing as friends to me. friends are people I hang out with on my own personal time for my own personal enjoyment. If I wouldn't hang out with you on a Friday night at the arcade or bookstore or invite you over to my house for some couch coop, we are not friends. We are people who work together. Yeah, we get along, yeah we chat, but that's because we are rubbing shoulders for 40+ hours a week. We HAVE to get along. But if we would stop "hanging out" after one of us stops working here, then we are not friends. and... people don't like to hear that apparently... or i have some people that are friends or relatives of my friends that are often included in activities when I hang out with my friends. Like their spouse or sibling or other friends. And, again, I've hurt feelings by saying those people are not MY friends. like my spouse has friends that I also sometimes hang out with. Or my friend's spouse is often included in our hang outs. but if for some reason, i stop seeing my partner, I'm not going to keep hanging with their friends or keep in touch with their family. If my friend gets divorced, I'm not going to hang out with their ex. I don't hang out with these people one on one; it's always WITH the other person. they're not MY friends. They're friends of association/convenience. It's not that I dislike these people either; they're fine. I have no qualms. They're just not MY friends. I just don't gel with them in the way that I need to to call them my friend. I wouldn't hang out with you one on one. I wouldn't go over to your house on my own and just hang out with you. I wouldn't invite you to go out book hunting on a Friday night. Maybe we don't have enough hobbies/interests in common. Maybe our brain waves don't quite click. Maybe you just cost too many spoons to be around. ... actually, in the moment, right now, I'm realizing the difference for me between "my friends" and "friends of association" might just be whether or not I feel I can "unmask" around them or not. If I feel like I have to be "on" or in "peopleing mode" around them. Cuz it's not really spoon cost. I have some friends that cost spoons big time to be with, but I love them anyway. Especially my best friend; she's like a sister to me. I would do anything for her. But she's very spoon heavy. Something about her energy is very draining and I need a lot of down time after seeing her. Maybe because she has a toddler always in tow and toddlers are exhausting; even if I'm not "in charge" of watching the kid, I'm always aware of what she's doing and keeping an eye on her. But I don't feel drained from hanging with her in the same way I do when hanging out with "associative friends," in the way I would if her husband had also been hanging out with us. that explains it completely, actually. If I feel like I can unmask around you, I probably consider you a friend and I would hang out with you on my personal time. If I feel like I have to be in peopleing mode around you, we are not friends and I would not hang out with you for funsies. because there have certainly been cases where work friends became my friends, and friends of association became my friends. and it's because we just gel.
My favorite part about this video is how simple and straightforward this video is. No long irrelevant intro blabbering about nothing, no repeating themselves for 10+ minutes, no tryhard attention grabbing visuals, no clickbaity titles, etc. Just a simple guide that's sweet, short and too the point. Thank you so much!
This onion has helped me realize why I’ve had a recurring problem throughout my life where I would view someone as just an acquaintance and that same person would think they were much closer to me than they actually were. Very helpful stuff.
this is so interesting and helpful! I've had a bit of a hard time understanding which people to hug when I am excited, or which to tell funny stories and jokes too, so this will help a lot! thank you! :)
Im 25 and only now understand this. Have been looking for help my whole life. Finally things are falling into place Thank you Kaeelyn for posting this information 🙏
The descriptions are sooooo useful! I always thought I didn't have any friends. Because I only considered what would be close friends as friends at all. I didn't know that it also counts as a friendship already when you just like talking and spending time together, but don't share EVERY thought
Yes, that might probably be also due to autistic black and white/all or nothing thinking. It can be part of why autistic people tend to crave fewer but deeper connections - because they feel that anything other than deep and close is not a connection at all.
It seems way more practical to explicitly negotiate what our boundaries and/or level of connection are, rather than playing guessing games. Also I've increasingly become disillusioned that most people's notions of interpersonal relationships are far more symbolic than practical. Like being more concerned about weird roles and rituals rather than tangibly helping each other in our daily lives.
okay but the way you just helped me resolve so much unprocessed trauma just now ❤❤❤ That’s literally what it is, drawing and redrawing boundaries based on allistic values, and therefore compromising my own. Thank you. ✨
When I saw the thumbnail of the video it instantly brought me back to a memory of my childhood where a teacher showed me the diagram and i didn't think much of it. (i was in a small class for disabled people if anyone asks also i live in a country where autism is more known about and gets diagnosed more often)
I used to teach the "Circles" curriculum at my job to high school students with disabilities. I LOVED my Circles days. I made fun worksheets and talked through different situations with my students. One day, I'll teach my own children "Circles."
I'm not autistic but I will vouch that this seems very practical to me and I think a lot of people can benefit from this! This is really intuitive I am surprised at the simplicity and clarity with which it explains the complexities of relationships I think this is super cool
Wow... Thank you for talking about this, I had no idea this diagram existed. You just made my life way easier. From the bottom of my heart, thank you 🙏
I’m 23. I’m autistic, but was missed as a kid because I mask reasonably well. This chart will be in the back of my head for the rest of my life because I struggle with this SO much
It would also be different depending on culture In Sweden we hug a lot of new people, but kissing is for very close people I France we kiss a lot of new people, but hugging is for close family, even then it's more normal to kiss cheeks than to hug
Wow I didn't know this was an actually technical thing! I've had a teir system in my head that I developed in highschool that I've been using for years that's very similar. Thanks for sharing!
the first time i met my best friend i felt she was my friend and acted as if she was she was appalled and i apologised. but in the end i was right one week later we were close friends and a month and a half we were besties. it was similar with my girlfriend but i took a little longer like 3months from me oversharing to us being close. sometimes trusting your weird autistic instinct is better than conforming to how you should act but then again both my bestie and gf are also autistic.
I (autistic) followed my gf (likely autistic) around like a lost puppy when we first met. I don't think she was ever uncomfortable by it, as she was the one who initiated most steps of our relationship, and she speaks of it now like she found it cute. But I still think it was some autistic instinct, as you say. I met her once and wanted her in my life. Now we live together. I have never gotten close to someone that quickly before, so I have to assume my subconscience knew something I didn't.
I actually already understood this by default. It's pretty much always been for me that everyone fits into a certain category of relationship, really without me thinking much about it. People always just naturally slot into wherever they go. I would say that almost everyone in my life who isn't a stranger or family I would consider to be an aquaintance. I have one best friend, and possibly one friend, various professional helpers over the course of my life, and everyone else beyond that is an aquaintance, regardless of how often I've interacted with them.
Hadn't seen the onion diagram before, but I'd been running on a similar-ish concept: I view interpersonal relationships like electron levels.. from what tiny bit I remember of that- closer levels take more energy to get to or exit from, actions being that 'energy'. It's not a perfect explainer, but has helped me stop over-pouring myself into friendships that were almost one way efforts.
When I was younger I greatly struggled with this, but at some point after enough bullying and realizing the 2 best friends I hung out with tell others that they weren’t my friend when people asked, I just lost trust in everyone and refused to let anybody past the acquaintance circle. This extended to the point that I couldn’t call somebody a friend even I knew them for years and sat with them at lunch plus partnered with them in class. Friend meant I have to trust you won’t stab me in the back and break my heart and I was just too scared to trust anyone. So here I am at 21 with absolutely no social connections and the only people I interact with day to day is my mother, sister and our animals. I’m slowly starting to accept on my own terms that yeah, perhaps I need therapy. I mean, I can survive like this. I’m not really lonely per se but somebody to chat with and spend time outside of the house with might be nice.
Find a way to meet people you share interests with, and then find someone equally or excited about it then you are. You have probably found a fellow autist, pre-screened for shared interests, just by the method of approach.
With the becoming friends one is such a hard thing to recognize for me. It kinda feels like it just suddenly happens with people that I spend time with. I consider if they are my friend if they sit at lunch with me when no one is around is like a big indicator and when it’s consistent. I can’t remember how some of my good friends came my friends. Also the best friend thing is weird like I used to consider someone my best friend but over time we both doubt that and it just feels like we are trying to pretend that we are to just keep peace and in the hopes that it could get stronger. I don’t tell my “best friend” everything because he would probably think I’m crazy.
i generally have a pretty good idea of how close i feel with others, but i struggle with detecting how close _they_ feel we are. it doesn't help that every person has their own boundaries, so some acquaintance might go around and hug everyone, but a very close friend might not, but still be closer to me. this has led to me overstepping boundaries, and also, looking back, has led to others overstepping mine without me really realizing ("they're acting pretty close, but of course we're not, so it's probably just a thing they do and it might be rude to call them out") (hasn't happened with anything bad, it's just weird in retrospect)
I would love to know more about the more subtle things that apply to each category of people in the onion, I struggle sometimes with the more subtle boundaries, tending to over share or under share - but it's not the big stuff (I know not to talk to a stranger or acquaintance about sex or my personal life etc for example), but the more nuanced stuff, or reciprocal expectations like knowing how often to text someone who's a friend versus a close friend. Also, how do you know when you're moving from one relationship level to the next? Like I get if someone you work with is asking you to meet for a cup of tea that this indicates a progression from purely professional but how do you know when and to what extent you are friends? It's the subtleties of the rules that always cause me difficulties and I get really stressed about
The how often thing is pretty complicated when I think about it, because it can vary quite a bit from person to person. I don't have autism, but I do have ADHD, and I tend to get overwhelmed and stop responding if more than two people are texting me at once. I will also forget to text people back for days, especially if I dismiss the notification before texting them back. But some people are comfortable texting everyone all the time. I guess my advice would be to figure out the order a relationship progresses (e.g. occasionally getting coffee, then doing activities together (seeing movies, going on walks, etc), then sharing slightly intimate things, then spending time in each other's homes, then sharing deeply intimate things) and then, if you want to be closer, try asking them to do something from the next level and see if they reciprocate. If not, they're probably content with the current level of friendship. If so, they're ready to be closer.
I love this! I know it's geared toward autistic ppl, but I think it's super useful for neurotypicals too. My son is almost 1 and I'm definitely going to use this to help teach him boundaries.
I feel like I'm definitely having a hard time making friends but it's because I mostly only see people at my job and want to be around different people. At work everyone is friends with each other and it's super clichey (coworkers even hang out with bosses), and everyone overshares so much it's so uncomfortable. I feel like they aren't following boundaries and make me feel like I'm the weird one!
Oh I did NOT like the onion in high school. My speech language pathologist was very patronizing while teaching it. Plenty of tips on on who I can't tell crass jokes, or how people don't want to hear my problems just because they think I'm funny, but not many tips on how to bring people further into the rings. I don't think he was very good at relationships himself. He didn't even teach the good part, that it means I deserve privacy too! That it's a two-way street! That it's not just me who has to respect boundaries! When I was young and hugged everyone, I'd wished I was born in one of the many cultures that normalized hugging and cheek-kissing. Now I firmly want a consent culture. I actually get more, and more enthusiastic, hugs that way!
I have never heard of this onion model before. And even though it seems like a great thing to teach somebody relationships boundaries, it doesn't help with knowing if the level of closeness is reciprocated. I might still believe someone is my friend, because I would like them to be, when they are only an acquaintance (happened to me way too often)
Since the boundaries go both ways, I think it can help with that. For example, if you believe someone is your friend, do they text you or approach you first often? Do they share personal details of their life with you? Do they invite you to things? If so, they probably consider you a friend too. If not, they may feel you are more an acquaintance.
@@reharm_reality Thanks, I'll keep that in mind, especially for when I feel less brave. In the last two years I got a lot of encouragement from some amazing people and I finally defaulted to just being weird and asking people how they feel about our relationship. And the very awesome thing I learned is that I'm not in middle school anymore and they are mostly grateful for instead of mocking me.
I learned about this in college (late 20s) Communication class. It has helped a lot. Though I feel you should be able to talk about your diarrhea with anyone, and I talk about it nearly every day with my work bestie. 😂 We both have GI issues and ADHD. So she gets me in such a different way and I love it. She understands how hilarious I am, too! 😅
I'm not diagnosed with autism but I do share at least some traits. I tend to have the difficulty of assuming no one is a friend and is just being friendly. Like my housemates that are the people I spend most my time with but I'd still struggle to call them friends even though I know a lot of people would. When I explained to one of my actual friends my view of friends being just the people who tend to always be around over a long enough time period he thought that was odd but its not like I ever chose anyone to be my friend we just happened to get along and be around each other a lot.
I recently had an issue overstepping someone's boundaries. They're a "friend" from a support group and they were very kind to me and supportive but I just messaged them like my best friend telling them everything and rambling and they tried their best to read and respond, but they were getting really annoyed by me. And I realized they were trying really hard to set soft boundaries and I shouldn't wait for them to block me. I realized they DO care about me and want me to get better but they don't have the time and spoons to be my primary correspondance. I realized I needed to treat her more like a counselor. She will be there for me in crisis, so I wanna not clog up her world and take her spoons for other things, and understand she's there for me if I really need her. But I managed to accept the fact that she could care about me even tho she didn't really wanna be my "friend." Which is fine. I have other friends. I had just forgot my friends cared about me and that's why I was reaching out to strangers in the first place. But then I realized this stranger actually WAS annoyed by me but my friends weren't. Before, I felt it was black and white. And accepting that I was bothering this person made me feel like I was really bothering everyone. But no. Anyway long story, but boundaries are tricky. They always were so nice and supportive to me, until I just rambled to them all the time and they tried nicely to redirect me so many times but I needed a super direct conversation with the person to understand.
I've probably had a lot of trouble over my life keeping the distinction between friends and acquaintances, and overshared or been too familiar with coworkers and others who weren't actually close enough. Now that I'm older (39) and more experienced, I think I'm a little better at it. But I still worry sometimes about what to say and if I've said the wrong thing to the wrong person.
I struggle with understanding the relationship with coworkers. They are not my boss, so I don't necessarily have to be overly formal or guarded with them. We also share a lot of experiences and spend a lot of time together, but they are not the same as friends. I don't now how to navigate that.
One time, I offered to help a woman I had met once at happy hour after a university event help with her move. It is the story I have in my head to show I need a system to deal with this.
It is genuinely depressing realizing all of the things that i had to *struggle* to understand that i never even realized were supposed to come natural. It feels like you just explained 10+ years of my hard work in a minute 🤣 WHERE WERE YOU WHEN I WAS IN MIDDLE SCHOOL haha
Thanks a lot for this one. Could you maybe do a video talking a little further about what behaviors are maybe appropriate with different layers of the onion? I dunno if I'm autistic or just have a lot of social anxiety but this is really confusing to me.
I have real trouble knowing who my friends are. My guest lists for parties always included a whole bunch of people I was also acquainted with because I thought because they are friendly to me, they are friends. But I always felt like they were lacking the closeness of a real friend. It is hard for me to articulate so it probably doesn't make sense. But because of your video, I would like to explore the possibilities of how I make sense of the world through autism. I havent been diagnosed because I am high functioning, but as an adult, I feel like my life and behaviour has always not fit and is different.
Hi! Au(tistic)DHD(w adhd) female of 37 years here! I was also like this. And i had my first panic attack in 7th grade due to not having any real support for either my autism (still only self diagnosed) OR my ADHD (so obvious I was diagnosed @ 5 yrs old). DO NOT THINK JUST BECAUSE A LITTLE GIRL HAS ADHD & IS OUTGOWING THAT SHE ISN'T ALSO AUTISTIC. I am still fighting for diagnosis & support.
I’m crying rn because all my friends and family always misunderstand me when all I do is just try to reach out they are dead set on misunderstanding me and I just feel like killing myself because nobody understands me. Like I made a bad joke (nothing offensive to me, I was just making a joke about a company missing the mark on something) and everyone got offended and now I’m the bad guy because I made one bad joke that didn’t land? Like why does everyone interpret everything I try to say in a lighthearted or humorous way as offensive when it isn’t meant that way at all? I literally made a joke about a company dropping the ball on their launch of a product, and now I’m the bad guy??? I just want to kill myself because everyone always takes the side of the other person, or in this case, a company? And I wasn’t even mad at the company, I just thought the situation was funny because it subverted my expectations (a launch that was supposed to happen but it was a failure of launch). Like i literally can’t say anything without someone dead set on misunderstanding me. All I wanted was someone to laugh at my joke of how it was funny things didn’t go according to plan, but apparently that’s offensive to the poor people at the company, and won’t someone please think of their feelings?! You know, the people who don’t even know I said anything about it. God I want to die. 😭😭😭💔💔💔
i still don’t understand why hugging teachers or staff is weird . at my old therapeutic school it was normal . it made me feel loved . but now at my new therapeutic one it’s not usually aloud and it makes me very sad :( physical touch with staff at school if it’s consensual like a hug can make you feel comforted and cared about!
I need to make an onion. I struggle to have boundaries. When I do have boundaries, I struggle to maintain them. Others do not make their boundaries clear individually, and generally, anything and everything is too intimate and inappropriate.
i technically know about these sorts of things but i have such an intense desire to bond with people and connect and be close that i often want most people in closer layers to me. xD but they dont always feel the same… and i try to accept that and not be Too Much. but sometimes im just too excited its too hard lol. i overshare a lot … im audhd
Hi! Do you have a link to this diagram? A quick Google search didn't bring it up, and I think this would be very helpful for some of my clients! (I'm a speech-language pathologist working with kids!)
The first time I saw the onion diagram as a 20 year old, I was mortified for myself. Thanks for sharing this!
Glad that's in the past now!❤
Im 33 and just seeing it. My onion is more of...a shallot.
The problem is my family does not act like family, more like enemies and bullies. And I have no idea how close my friends feel to me. I end up always caring more.
That makes me sad to hear, I’m sorry you’re dealing with that. 😞
You may be one of those people whose closet personal relationships are with “chosen family”, AKA, friends. ❤️🩹
Same here. Worse, I'm under 18 so I have to live with them. They can be great one minute and horrible the next and if I try to tell them that they're stressing me out, they say it's just "teenage drama". My youngest brother outright despises me unless he wants me to do something, my mom screams all the time, my dad hates computers and wants to shoot them regardless of the fact that I have friends whom I can only contact through email, and my other brother simply doesn't care about anyone or anything.
FunFact: I read about a DNA study that found that in prehistoric nomadic hunter gatherer tribes, only 10% of members shared familial DNA. Apparently during the massive annual gatherings and feasts of many tribes, humans often left their family groups to join other "chosen family" groups!
_Only ten percent related!_
This is how humans naturally are!
I find it so helpful to know this!
And I like to imagine whole groups of autistic cave people, grouping together and understanding their quirks!
@@kikijewell2967
That's to do with incest
Even though I just turned 30, I sometimes still need this diagram illustrated in my head because there are times where I’ll overstep a layer without realizing it which sometimes leads to people giving me weird looks or just fast paced walking away without saying anything. It’s very difficult not to hate myself afterwards.
Oh geez! Try not to hate yourself! Remember you are your own most important relationship! ❤️ Other people can do some learning as well. Communication is a two- person activity so a miss-communication is a chance for two people to learn.
Everyone makes mistakes. Even though their mistakes might be in another subject.
If you do your best once you find out about something, that's all that matters. We cant respond to what we don't know yet!
Don’t beat yourself up about it. This happens to everyone at some point, we all make mistakes. Generally people don’t remember the things that we felt embarrassed over. Neurotypical people do this too. It’s fine.
Another thing to note is that it’s important to communicate with people about their own personal boundaries and preferences. You could have an acquaintance who just likes hugging people and would be fine with that, or a closer friend who doesn’t like being touched. It’s important to ask people what their boundaries are, and personally, I like informing people that I have difficulties picking up on subtle hints about things like that, so if they feel uncomfortable or want to establish their personal boundaries, I can let them know that it’s best for them to be direct
That's a great point! I get overstimulated fairly easily by touch, so for me, touch is very occasional, and reserved only for the closest people in my life, like my family. Even many good friends I've had, I feel very weird about touching. I will make myself shake someone's hand on meeting them to be courteous, but even that is pretty uncomfortable. I've moved somewhere where hugging is as casual as shaking hands (and have been hugged by people before I even know their names sometimes) and it's so weird to try to figure out how to say "please don't do that". Especially because people in this area are weirdly pressure-y about touch, like wanting to stand hand in hand or with arms around each others shoulders, just as casual team building type stuff. Every time I ask to be excluded everyone laughs it off and refuses to take no for an answer, or looks at me like I'm crazy if I stop being able to hide being upset (after asking clearly and politely not to be touched and then them attempting to touch me anyway)
Sadly that's just the culture here. And I am glad for people who can use physical touch to connect with people they don't know well! It's lovely that they can use that to form a bond and feel closer to others. I just wish that there was room for a second option here too without people seeing revoking touch as weird or hurtful or rude, and that consent over who has permission to touch you at all was treated as seriously as it is in intimate relationships. If the ability to revoke consent to be touched by your partner is seen as crucial to a healthy relationship, it feels like people should take that even more seriously for platonic touch in platonic relationships, since the nature of that relationship doesn't carry any implication of sharing your body with the other person. Funnily (but not surprising), the people who I am close enough with that I don't mind them touching me are never the ones who make me feel uncomfortable, and always respect my consent. They never get offended if I can't handle being touched that day, or will do brief touches like leaning our heads on each other's shoulders instead of a hug if I'm too overwhelmed for that much contact but still want to express affection.
I love this concept and saw a similar infographic earlier this week. It was more of a pyramid than an onion, but had these "layers of closeness" clarification re: different types of relationships. Us autists tend to want to jump into the close friend pool a little more quickly than allistic people tend to want to.
Yes! This is a brilliant way of saying it.
I feel that! I often thought "everyone is my friend immediately upon meeting me" was a me thing but maybe it's an autistic thing. But how to tell the difference between this attitude being friendly and welcoming vs overwhelming or creepy? I'm fine knowing not everyone will vibe with me, but I want to make sure I don't make someone uncomfortable or violate *their* boundaries
@@superaarthi same. This type of info has been helpful for me in learning just that very thing.
Nah, I was abused too much so I am cautious.
This is why I got annoyed when my mum told my friends I had a symptom of food poisoning at 16. In this context the onion was that family at the centre followed by professionals with friends a bit further out. They didn’t need to know the symptoms. My mum assumed that they would be ok knowing as they’re my friends. The layers change depending on the situation too - social dynamics are complex
It needs like a layer between like "professional helper" and "acquaintance" for like "people I work with/ go to school with" - they aren't necessarily there to help us lean something new, but we're also closer than just talking and seeing each other sometimes.
But I do love this and I WILL be using this tool!
For me acquaintance is exactly that. I wouldn't talk to someone that studies with me every single day 🤡
Unless they're actually friends with me
Unle
@@Dionaea_Mbut that's how to make friends. You talk to the people you see regularly, and that makes you acquaintances. And then you take a friendly acquaintance and do a "friends" thing like going out for a coffee or bowling, and if this keeps happening now you're friends.
You can't make friends without taking to people you don't know.
Thank you for making these videos. As a neurotypical guy in his twenties, I'm surprised how many things I take for granted.
Understanding these boundaries has never caused any problems for me. So, being informed about the same concept from the point of a view of an autistic person definitely helps me relate to their struggles.
These videos help me move away from the attitude "Are you serious!? You gotta be kidding me. How's it possible that you don't know/understand x?" towards "Oh, now, I see that this concept is rather complex, and I understand the struggles people may have with it."
One thing I struggle with is how to explain these kinds of things to an autistic adult without making that person feel like a child or being seen as stupid when I do so. Do you guys have any suggestions?
I think most people appreciate the use of simple / plain language when explaining a tricky concept.
You might notice in my videos how I’ll use very basic language to illustrate new concepts. People have responded well to it.
I think tone has a lot to do with it. So long as your tone is neutral or positive, most people don’t mind a simple explanation. 😆
Something that also might help, is to ask if a particular thing is something that they struggle with. They may even have similar solutions but just needed someone to brainstorm with. Make it more of a conversation and suggest ideas and if they like them, then direct them towards the resources you had in mind. She says a lot of times that not all tools are for everyone. So think of it as seeing if it’s something they’re interested in, more so than making it feel like they need to do a specific thing to achieve something. I guess I’m saying, make it an option and not a rule/chore/something mandatory and it would maybe reduce that feeling ❤
it might help to ask first IF they want it explained, or if right now is the right time for the explanation. basically, i think it's both timing and how you frame things
if you broach the subject in a way that sounds like being graded by a teacher or tutor or something, that might get a different reaction than bringing it up in a casual "i saw a video i thought you might find interesting!" fun fact kind of way, or like a heartfelt/somewhat vulnerable "i noticed that this seems to be something that troubles you, can i try to help?"
but even the most situationally appropriate framing might not be immediately well-received if the person is already overloaded on socializing, or isn't even thinking about social constructs at the moment and feels blindsighted by going from the familiar scripts of y'all's usual conversation to talking ABOUT scripts and conversation etc on a meta level... or if they'd prefer you text the explanation to them so they can digest it on their own time and refer back to it if they want to because right now they can't concentrate bc of a distracting noise or something lol
but every individual is different! and may have different preferences for how they'd prefer to talk (or not) about this sort of thing. you might be able to guess based on previous interactions with the person, but this might be a situation where just being straightforward and discussing conversational boundaries/preferences could help
edit to add: if i've gotten too complicated here let me know. pragmatics/social linguistics/communication etc are a special interest 😅
@@hp8685 Thank you for your reply. I'm also an amateur linguist and speak several languages fluently. So, nothing in your comment felt confusing.
I've tried texting once (on the most recent attempt), and it worked well, because it allowed both me and the other person to formulate our current understanding and to edit each other's text to better reflect what we were saying.
I've found that they don't understand metaphors at all. A customer representative was able to use a metaphor once, but I've always failed at it.
Metaphors have been a core part of my explanation process. So, not understanding them has led to me being frustrated.
I'll keep using the texting method as it has had the best results. So far, and it's the only time when I haven't raised my voice in frustration.
this was worded so well. I also wish more people were this considerate! unsolicited advice can be so intrusive, whether you just don't want it or the timing is wrong.
In high school, I was obsessed with looking at diagrams like this (and diagrams of facial expressions, because those smiley face emotions they show you in early childhood look nothing like human faces). I had no idea how to interact with anybody, so I was constantly researching ways I could improve my ability to blend in.
I'm kind of thankful one of my most intensive interests has been human interaction, because I think I might have had a hard time without that information. On the other hand, it's kind of lengthened my self-exploration, because I have existing learned habits for social situations that are exhausting to use, but hard to break.
To clarify: I don't have any sort of neurodivergent diagnosis, but I've strongly suspected that I might have ADHD and/or be on the spectrum for a while now. I'm working to find good professionals in my area. From the information I've gathered, I definitely don't think I'm neurotypical.
It's quite common for autistic people to be undiagnosed, especially females. An estimated 2% of the population is autistic, but most people can't recognize autistic traits outside of the heavy stereotypes. Those stereotypes are mostly associated with male children. Most people don't realize that they come across dozens if not hundreds of autistic people whenever they go to work or go shopping.
Society has zero tolerance toward males when it comes to showing vulnerability. "Be a man" and "boys don't cry", they say. Although girls are just as likely as boys to be autistic, significantly more males get diagnosed. When a boy doesn't seem to comprehend that they should act tough, society labels them as having a mental disorder. That's why boys are more likely to be diagnosed with autism. It's more easily detected.
While girls are lucky to not be abused by society whenever they show vulnerability, this has the ironic effect of making them less likely to be diagnosed with autism. Autistic behavior is more tolerated by society when the person is female. Undiagnosed autistic girls quickly become aware that they have trouble fitting in. They look for ways to mimic allistic behavior. This is called masking. Like you said, it's extremely exhausting and stressful. It's a dangerous coping mechanism that is hard to break.
Kaelynn is a perfect example of an autistic woman with ADHD who doesn't mask. She's lucky to have supportive friends and family. I wish all of society could be this supportive. They should be teaching this in school. I'm neurotypical, by the way. I would have loved learning about all of this as a child. The world would be a much better place if there wasn't so much hate and intolerance.
@@Accrovideogames
You don't understand autism properly, and are just going off stereotypes
holy shit one of my friends is autistic too and her spIN is social interaction and its funny bc every allistic she meets is like "you should be a sociologist or a child psychologist!"
@@meifennellysieu7510 "exhausting to use, but hard to break" just about summed up my life right there. Thanks for putting that feeling to words.
I came up with a similar model but called it a solar system to get me through high school. It helped a ton, especially since I was pretty shy so rather than overshare I had trouble trusting friends with information similar to what they had shared with me. Putting people into orbits helped a ton!
Same, I thought of it as friendships modelled on the polar coordinate grid lol
Thanks!! That visual just helped me a lot. They're in orbit at a distance!
Thank you so much for this. I am coming to terms with being an undiagnosed autistic man. I’m 47 and still at risk for putting myself in harmful situations. Just last week I was almost lured into a strangers apartment after they talked me into giving them a ride. I came to my senses as we were about to go inside and they told me that they needed to use me phone. This is so embarrassing to admit but I want to be a cautionary tale. People can use your empathy against you if you don’t have clear boundaries.
I understand the reason to have something like this and how it could help some people but I've also found that I find it incredibly difficult to reduce relationships that are often extremely multifaceted into something this... restricting? Like 'family' or 'friends' are such broad terms that can have a lot of different variations in information sharing and physical boundaries. ( I am autistic and I find that for me it tends to inhibit me from 'simplifying' stuff like this.)
In that case, this tool might not be particularly useful to you. Every tool isn’t for every person.
I am a strong believer in having a variety of tools because what helps one person will not necessarily help another.
Thank you for adding your perspective! 💕
@@KaelynnismThank you - I also think I'm a person who has trouble with the categorization part rather than the appropriateness of actions within each category, and was feeling somewhat bewildered by how one could use this and inadequate for feeling so confused. A good reminder that that just means this isn't a tool that addresses my difficulties.
not to be morbid but bc i feel like the onion is so incredibly western coded and didnt apply to my life, the way i thought about it was, "how sad would i be if this person died" as a kid id probably be more sad if my best friend died or my next door neighbor (basically a second mom to me) than my grandmother (mean and lived in another state) so im more likely to tell my best friend or neighbor about my diarrhea . i think everyone conceptualizes things differently
@@kukachoo42 While I don't think I've ever done this in order to categorize my relationships, I have very much done this in some twisted way of making myself 'prove' that I care about people .. we all have our methods I guess /lh
@@kukachoo42I definitely understand and relate to this even tho I was born and raised in the US so I tend to have a more western view of certain things but I still get why this specific tool wouldn't really work well for someone who's from a completely culture. I do think that the onion can be modified to better fit different people's experiences tho. Like I personally believe that friends can be family and family doesn't have to mean who you're biologically related to. Your neighbor can definitely be part of who you see as family, it could also be a teacher that you have a really strong bond with or even the local librarian. But I do agree that this specific tool isn't effective for everyone and I actually like your "how sad would I be if this person died?" method, it's relatively short and simple, doesn't matter if it's morbid as long as it works for you lol.
my issue has been consistently where people actually are in my onion, often i do not care if a coworker doesnt want to know i have chronic stomach issues, coworkers tell me things i dont need to or want to know all the time, and when i express my boundaries theyre often treated as hysterics by others in general
yet others will allow me to think of them as closer to me than they actually are for extended periods of time then lash out at me explosively as if i have somehow forced them to interact with me
i am not responsible for the prison of “social decorum” others build for themselves
being told by someone you arent their friend sucks but thinking someones your friend for months-years and them acting like you forced them to respond to your texts for months is a hell dug by one made for two and i was not holding the shovel
I wholeheartedly agree with this. In my experience, autistic people communicate their relationship boundaries far more clearly than allistics. Allistic people, as a generalization, seem to assume obligation where there isn't any. So if I ask an allistic person to a party and they don't want to go, they may go anyway because they feel they "should" or they "have to". Most autistic people I know will just say they don't want to go. It is much simpler that way and does not leave me guessing if a person is sincere. I do not know why allistic people cannot do that.
I may be misunderstanding, but I think what you’re describing are people who just take in relationships. There are plenty of people who will talk about themselves all day long, share personal info you didn’t ask for, which often makes people think they might have a closer bond. But the second you share a story or need something, they act as though you’re demanding too much and have indignation that something isn’t about them for once. Those people should be avoided. They will never reciprocate anything and as you’ve mentioned, struggle with the boundaries of others.
I feel that this situation happens to me when people have been "playing nice" by tolerating my oddness and then when the day comes that they're in a bad mood or just tired of getting annoyed by me, they'll let on that we're not friends. This was taught from childhood to them as "good manners" to tolerate and not be so direct that they don't want to be your friend. Just sharing my experience because I related to your scenario, hope this helps💜
I feel like I have always been hyper aware of my onion - though I didn't call it that. I just have really particular ideas of my relationships with people, like little bubbles, that are very difficult to cross over from one to another. and I have hurt a lot of peoples feelings by informing them of their place in my onion, without realizing their idea of our relationship was different...
For example, work friends are not the same thing as friends to me. friends are people I hang out with on my own personal time for my own personal enjoyment. If I wouldn't hang out with you on a Friday night at the arcade or bookstore or invite you over to my house for some couch coop, we are not friends.
We are people who work together. Yeah, we get along, yeah we chat, but that's because we are rubbing shoulders for 40+ hours a week. We HAVE to get along. But if we would stop "hanging out" after one of us stops working here, then we are not friends.
and... people don't like to hear that apparently...
or i have some people that are friends or relatives of my friends that are often included in activities when I hang out with my friends. Like their spouse or sibling or other friends.
And, again, I've hurt feelings by saying those people are not MY friends.
like my spouse has friends that I also sometimes hang out with. Or my friend's spouse is often included in our hang outs.
but if for some reason, i stop seeing my partner, I'm not going to keep hanging with their friends or keep in touch with their family. If my friend gets divorced, I'm not going to hang out with their ex. I don't hang out with these people one on one; it's always WITH the other person.
they're not MY friends. They're friends of association/convenience.
It's not that I dislike these people either; they're fine. I have no qualms. They're just not MY friends. I just don't gel with them in the way that I need to to call them my friend. I wouldn't hang out with you one on one. I wouldn't go over to your house on my own and just hang out with you. I wouldn't invite you to go out book hunting on a Friday night. Maybe we don't have enough hobbies/interests in common. Maybe our brain waves don't quite click. Maybe you just cost too many spoons to be around.
... actually, in the moment, right now, I'm realizing the difference for me between "my friends" and "friends of association" might just be whether or not I feel I can "unmask" around them or not. If I feel like I have to be "on" or in "peopleing mode" around them. Cuz it's not really spoon cost. I have some friends that cost spoons big time to be with, but I love them anyway. Especially my best friend; she's like a sister to me. I would do anything for her. But she's very spoon heavy. Something about her energy is very draining and I need a lot of down time after seeing her. Maybe because she has a toddler always in tow and toddlers are exhausting; even if I'm not "in charge" of watching the kid, I'm always aware of what she's doing and keeping an eye on her.
But I don't feel drained from hanging with her in the same way I do when hanging out with "associative friends," in the way I would if her husband had also been hanging out with us.
that explains it completely, actually.
If I feel like I can unmask around you, I probably consider you a friend and I would hang out with you on my personal time. If I feel like I have to be in peopleing mode around you, we are not friends and I would not hang out with you for funsies.
because there have certainly been cases where work friends became my friends, and friends of association became my friends. and it's because we just gel.
My favorite part about this video is how simple and straightforward this video is. No long irrelevant intro blabbering about nothing, no repeating themselves for 10+ minutes, no tryhard attention grabbing visuals, no clickbaity titles, etc. Just a simple guide that's sweet, short and too the point. Thank you so much!
This onion has helped me realize why I’ve had a recurring problem throughout my life where I would view someone as just an acquaintance and that same person would think they were much closer to me than they actually were. Very helpful stuff.
this is so interesting and helpful! I've had a bit of a hard time understanding which people to hug when I am excited, or which to tell funny stories and jokes too, so this will help a lot! thank you! :)
This made me cry with how helpful this is. I was questioning what a friend, aquaintance and best friend were to me for like 13yrs. Thank you
OMG! I learned this in school, and I used it at work several years ago! So glad to know that others still do this!
I'm 30. I needed this as a kid so badly. Sometimes, I might still need this now.
Im 25 and only now understand this. Have been looking for help my whole life. Finally things are falling into place
Thank you Kaeelyn for posting this information 🙏
I had to watch this video multiple times for my brain to understand the whole thing but after it makes sense and is a good way to understand it ❤
This gives a lot of perspective to the quote "Ogres are like onions, ogres have layers"
that is awesome -- thanks
you are a nice teacher -- it's nice and refreshing to have someone cheerful and amazing talk about this stuff
Thank you! 😃
This is the first time I've heard of this! This could have helped me SO much during my childhood.
The descriptions are sooooo useful! I always thought I didn't have any friends. Because I only considered what would be close friends as friends at all. I didn't know that it also counts as a friendship already when you just like talking and spending time together, but don't share EVERY thought
Yes, that might probably be also due to autistic black and white/all or nothing thinking.
It can be part of why autistic people tend to crave fewer but deeper connections - because they feel that anything other than deep and close is not a connection at all.
@@sacrilegiousboi978 That sums it up pretty well!
Most times when I’m about to say something to someone I have to think if I’m close with them or not so this really helps❤
It seems way more practical to explicitly negotiate what our boundaries and/or level of connection are, rather than playing guessing games.
Also I've increasingly become disillusioned that most people's notions of interpersonal relationships are far more symbolic than practical. Like being more concerned about weird roles and rituals rather than tangibly helping each other in our daily lives.
okay but the way you just helped me resolve so much unprocessed trauma just now ❤❤❤
That’s literally what it is, drawing and redrawing boundaries based on allistic values, and therefore compromising my own. Thank you. ✨
Glad I could help! 💖
Are you being sarcastic?
@@Catlily5 not at all. Are you being sarcastic…? lol
@@bbybudaluna No. I guess I am just misunderstanding your comment. My bad!
@@Catlily5 it’s okay! You can always ask me what I meant with a more specific question, I don’t mind
When I saw the thumbnail of the video it instantly brought me back to a memory of my childhood where a teacher showed me the diagram and i didn't think much of it. (i was in a small class for disabled people if anyone asks also i live in a country where autism is more known about and gets diagnosed more often)
I used to teach the "Circles" curriculum at my job to high school students with disabilities. I LOVED my Circles days. I made fun worksheets and talked through different situations with my students. One day, I'll teach my own children "Circles."
I'm not autistic but I will vouch that this seems very practical to me and I think a lot of people can benefit from this! This is really intuitive I am surprised at the simplicity and clarity with which it explains the complexities of relationships I think this is super cool
Wow... Thank you for talking about this, I had no idea this diagram existed. You just made my life way easier. From the bottom of my heart, thank you 🙏
I’m 23. I’m autistic, but was missed as a kid because I mask reasonably well. This chart will be in the back of my head for the rest of my life because I struggle with this SO much
It would also be different depending on culture
In Sweden we hug a lot of new people, but kissing is for very close people
I France we kiss a lot of new people, but hugging is for close family, even then it's more normal to kiss cheeks than to hug
Wow I didn't know this was an actually technical thing! I've had a teir system in my head that I developed in highschool that I've been using for years that's very similar. Thanks for sharing!
the first time i met my best friend i felt she was my friend and acted as if she was she was appalled and i apologised. but in the end i was right one week later we were close friends and a month and a half we were besties. it was similar with my girlfriend but i took a little longer like 3months from me oversharing to us being close. sometimes trusting your weird autistic instinct is better than conforming to how you should act but then again both my bestie and gf are also autistic.
I (autistic) followed my gf (likely autistic) around like a lost puppy when we first met. I don't think she was ever uncomfortable by it, as she was the one who initiated most steps of our relationship, and she speaks of it now like she found it cute. But I still think it was some autistic instinct, as you say. I met her once and wanted her in my life. Now we live together. I have never gotten close to someone that quickly before, so I have to assume my subconscience knew something I didn't.
I actually already understood this by default. It's pretty much always been for me that everyone fits into a certain category of relationship, really without me thinking much about it. People always just naturally slot into wherever they go. I would say that almost everyone in my life who isn't a stranger or family I would consider to be an aquaintance. I have one best friend, and possibly one friend, various professional helpers over the course of my life, and everyone else beyond that is an aquaintance, regardless of how often I've interacted with them.
Hadn't seen the onion diagram before, but I'd been running on a similar-ish concept: I view interpersonal relationships like electron levels.. from what tiny bit I remember of that- closer levels take more energy to get to or exit from, actions being that 'energy'. It's not a perfect explainer, but has helped me stop over-pouring myself into friendships that were almost one way efforts.
When I was younger I greatly struggled with this, but at some point after enough bullying and realizing the 2 best friends I hung out with tell others that they weren’t my friend when people asked, I just lost trust in everyone and refused to let anybody past the acquaintance circle. This extended to the point that I couldn’t call somebody a friend even I knew them for years and sat with them at lunch plus partnered with them in class. Friend meant I have to trust you won’t stab me in the back and break my heart and I was just too scared to trust anyone. So here I am at 21 with absolutely no social connections and the only people I interact with day to day is my mother, sister and our animals. I’m slowly starting to accept on my own terms that yeah, perhaps I need therapy. I mean, I can survive like this. I’m not really lonely per se but somebody to chat with and spend time outside of the house with might be nice.
Find a way to meet people you share interests with, and then find someone equally or excited about it then you are. You have probably found a fellow autist, pre-screened for shared interests, just by the method of approach.
With the becoming friends one is such a hard thing to recognize for me. It kinda feels like it just suddenly happens with people that I spend time with. I consider if they are my friend if they sit at lunch with me when no one is around is like a big indicator and when it’s consistent. I can’t remember how some of my good friends came my friends.
Also the best friend thing is weird like I used to consider someone my best friend but over time we both doubt that and it just feels like we are trying to pretend that we are to just keep peace and in the hopes that it could get stronger. I don’t tell my “best friend” everything because he would probably think I’m crazy.
Thank you Kaelynn! I’ve always been confused about this. Like how open can I be, and with who? And thanks for the screenshot opportunity at the end :)
i generally have a pretty good idea of how close i feel with others, but i struggle with detecting how close _they_ feel we are.
it doesn't help that every person has their own boundaries, so some acquaintance might go around and hug everyone, but a very close friend might not, but still be closer to me.
this has led to me overstepping boundaries, and also, looking back, has led to others overstepping mine without me really realizing ("they're acting pretty close, but of course we're not, so it's probably just a thing they do and it might be rude to call them out") (hasn't happened with anything bad, it's just weird in retrospect)
I would love to know more about the more subtle things that apply to each category of people in the onion, I struggle sometimes with the more subtle boundaries, tending to over share or under share - but it's not the big stuff (I know not to talk to a stranger or acquaintance about sex or my personal life etc for example), but the more nuanced stuff, or reciprocal expectations like knowing how often to text someone who's a friend versus a close friend.
Also, how do you know when you're moving from one relationship level to the next? Like I get if someone you work with is asking you to meet for a cup of tea that this indicates a progression from purely professional but how do you know when and to what extent you are friends? It's the subtleties of the rules that always cause me difficulties and I get really stressed about
The how often thing is pretty complicated when I think about it, because it can vary quite a bit from person to person.
I don't have autism, but I do have ADHD, and I tend to get overwhelmed and stop responding if more than two people are texting me at once. I will also forget to text people back for days, especially if I dismiss the notification before texting them back. But some people are comfortable texting everyone all the time.
I guess my advice would be to figure out the order a relationship progresses (e.g. occasionally getting coffee, then doing activities together (seeing movies, going on walks, etc), then sharing slightly intimate things, then spending time in each other's homes, then sharing deeply intimate things) and then, if you want to be closer, try asking them to do something from the next level and see if they reciprocate. If not, they're probably content with the current level of friendship. If so, they're ready to be closer.
@@rizahawkeyepierce1380 this is super helpful, thank you!
You’re amazing. Thank you for being such a bright force in the world. 💜🙏🏻
Thank you for sharing. I am 22 and still struggle in this concept.
Our class EA took over health and we did a whole unit on the circles in grade 8 seeing this video reminded me how much of a game changer it was 😊
I love this! I know it's geared toward autistic ppl, but I think it's super useful for neurotypicals too. My son is almost 1 and I'm definitely going to use this to help teach him boundaries.
I feel like I'm definitely having a hard time making friends but it's because I mostly only see people at my job and want to be around different people. At work everyone is friends with each other and it's super clichey (coworkers even hang out with bosses), and everyone overshares so much it's so uncomfortable. I feel like they aren't following boundaries and make me feel like I'm the weird one!
This young lady is sooo sharp and pretty . I love her videos !
Oh I did NOT like the onion in high school. My speech language pathologist was very patronizing while teaching it. Plenty of tips on on who I can't tell crass jokes, or how people don't want to hear my problems just because they think I'm funny, but not many tips on how to bring people further into the rings. I don't think he was very good at relationships himself.
He didn't even teach the good part, that it means I deserve privacy too! That it's a two-way street! That it's not just me who has to respect boundaries!
When I was young and hugged everyone, I'd wished I was born in one of the many cultures that normalized hugging and cheek-kissing. Now I firmly want a consent culture. I actually get more, and more enthusiastic, hugs that way!
I have never heard of this onion model before. And even though it seems like a great thing to teach somebody relationships boundaries, it doesn't help with knowing if the level of closeness is reciprocated. I might still believe someone is my friend, because I would like them to be, when they are only an acquaintance (happened to me way too often)
Since the boundaries go both ways, I think it can help with that. For example, if you believe someone is your friend, do they text you or approach you first often? Do they share personal details of their life with you? Do they invite you to things? If so, they probably consider you a friend too. If not, they may feel you are more an acquaintance.
@@reharm_reality Thanks, I'll keep that in mind, especially for when I feel less brave.
In the last two years I got a lot of encouragement from some amazing people and I finally defaulted to just being weird and asking people how they feel about our relationship. And the very awesome thing I learned is that I'm not in middle school anymore and they are mostly grateful for instead of mocking me.
this is a really helpful tool. i think visuals work really well.
Yesssssssssssss I so appreciate this!! Also 200th comment w00t w00t God bless you and your content Kaelynn
I learned about this in college (late 20s) Communication class. It has helped a lot. Though I feel you should be able to talk about your diarrhea with anyone, and I talk about it nearly every day with my work bestie. 😂 We both have GI issues and ADHD. So she gets me in such a different way and I love it. She understands how hilarious I am, too! 😅
Wish I'd known this in my teens. This is useful 😊
Flight of the Conchords S02E04 has a decent explanation of friendship levels.
Ohhhh. That’s really useful for me to help my daughter. Thank you
Well said Kaelynn
I'm not diagnosed with autism but I do share at least some traits. I tend to have the difficulty of assuming no one is a friend and is just being friendly. Like my housemates that are the people I spend most my time with but I'd still struggle to call them friends even though I know a lot of people would.
When I explained to one of my actual friends my view of friends being just the people who tend to always be around over a long enough time period he thought that was odd but its not like I ever chose anyone to be my friend we just happened to get along and be around each other a lot.
I recently had an issue overstepping someone's boundaries. They're a "friend" from a support group and they were very kind to me and supportive but I just messaged them like my best friend telling them everything and rambling and they tried their best to read and respond, but they were getting really annoyed by me. And I realized they were trying really hard to set soft boundaries and I shouldn't wait for them to block me. I realized they DO care about me and want me to get better but they don't have the time and spoons to be my primary correspondance. I realized I needed to treat her more like a counselor. She will be there for me in crisis, so I wanna not clog up her world and take her spoons for other things, and understand she's there for me if I really need her. But I managed to accept the fact that she could care about me even tho she didn't really wanna be my "friend." Which is fine. I have other friends. I had just forgot my friends cared about me and that's why I was reaching out to strangers in the first place. But then I realized this stranger actually WAS annoyed by me but my friends weren't. Before, I felt it was black and white. And accepting that I was bothering this person made me feel like I was really bothering everyone. But no.
Anyway long story, but boundaries are tricky. They always were so nice and supportive to me, until I just rambled to them all the time and they tried nicely to redirect me so many times but I needed a super direct conversation with the person to understand.
I've probably had a lot of trouble over my life keeping the distinction between friends and acquaintances, and overshared or been too familiar with coworkers and others who weren't actually close enough. Now that I'm older (39) and more experienced, I think I'm a little better at it. But I still worry sometimes about what to say and if I've said the wrong thing to the wrong person.
She is so brilliant 😊
Great infographic! I wish I could let people get close enough to hug me sometimes. I don't even have family anymore to depend on.
Its these types of things that make me think I have autism. I always relate so much to these very helpful videos
I struggle with understanding the relationship with coworkers. They are not my boss, so I don't necessarily have to be overly formal or guarded with them. We also share a lot of experiences and spend a lot of time together, but they are not the same as friends. I don't now how to navigate that.
One time, I offered to help a woman I had met once at happy hour after a university event help with her move. It is the story I have in my head to show I need a system to deal with this.
Omg I've been doing it all wrong my entire life. Thank you!!!!
It is genuinely depressing realizing all of the things that i had to *struggle* to understand that i never even realized were supposed to come natural. It feels like you just explained 10+ years of my hard work in a minute 🤣 WHERE WERE YOU WHEN I WAS IN MIDDLE SCHOOL haha
Thanks a lot for this one. Could you maybe do a video talking a little further about what behaviors are maybe appropriate with different layers of the onion? I dunno if I'm autistic or just have a lot of social anxiety but this is really confusing to me.
I have real trouble knowing who my friends are. My guest lists for parties always included a whole bunch of people I was also acquainted with because I thought because they are friendly to me, they are friends. But I always felt like they were lacking the closeness of a real friend. It is hard for me to articulate so it probably doesn't make sense. But because of your video, I would like to explore the possibilities of how I make sense of the world through autism. I havent been diagnosed because I am high functioning, but as an adult, I feel like my life and behaviour has always not fit and is different.
NICE ONE !! Thank you 😊😊😊
Very helpful! Thank you for sharing
You had me at “diarrhea on a first date.”
I need this for my daughter she find it difficult to navigate and she is so impulsive and a very social child. AuDHD all the way, and not shy at all.
Hi! Au(tistic)DHD(w adhd) female of 37 years here! I was also like this. And i had my first panic attack in 7th grade due to not having any real support for either my autism (still only self diagnosed) OR my ADHD (so obvious I was diagnosed @ 5 yrs old). DO NOT THINK JUST BECAUSE A LITTLE GIRL HAS ADHD & IS OUTGOWING THAT SHE ISN'T ALSO AUTISTIC. I am still fighting for diagnosis & support.
I love the visual you're using can you share it?
I love this!
Where did you get that visualization? I really like it in comparison to the usual “ring” diagram I have used.
brb recontextualizing my entire life 😊
Wish I knew this 60 years ago
Thank you 🙏🏻
I’m crying rn because all my friends and family always misunderstand me when all I do is just try to reach out they are dead set on misunderstanding me and I just feel like killing myself because nobody understands me. Like I made a bad joke (nothing offensive to me, I was just making a joke about a company missing the mark on something) and everyone got offended and now I’m the bad guy because I made one bad joke that didn’t land? Like why does everyone interpret everything I try to say in a lighthearted or humorous way as offensive when it isn’t meant that way at all? I literally made a joke about a company dropping the ball on their launch of a product, and now I’m the bad guy??? I just want to kill myself because everyone always takes the side of the other person, or in this case, a company? And I wasn’t even mad at the company, I just thought the situation was funny because it subverted my expectations (a launch that was supposed to happen but it was a failure of launch). Like i literally can’t say anything without someone dead set on misunderstanding me. All I wanted was someone to laugh at my joke of how it was funny things didn’t go according to plan, but apparently that’s offensive to the poor people at the company, and won’t someone please think of their feelings?! You know, the people who don’t even know I said anything about it. God I want to die. 😭😭😭💔💔💔
This is so interesting! Is there a link to the diagram somewhere - additionally, is there one that could be helpful for kiddos? (Pre-school.)
I can never tell who I'm friends with and then I'll ask them and they're like "we've been friends for months!", let alone best friends...
i still don’t understand why hugging teachers or staff is weird . at my old therapeutic school it was normal . it made me feel loved . but now at my new therapeutic one it’s not usually aloud and it makes me very sad :( physical touch with staff at school if it’s consensual like a hug can make you feel comforted and cared about!
I classify my relationships based on the relationship lemon.
I need to make an onion. I struggle to have boundaries. When I do have boundaries, I struggle to maintain them. Others do not make their boundaries clear individually, and generally, anything and everything is too intimate and inappropriate.
The closest I got to being taught this growing up was Shrek.
It's all au-gre now.
Hi Kaelynn! This is great :D Any idea where I can find this visual?
Where has this relationship onion been all my life!? Are there more resources like this one? I need more visual aids in my life!
❤
Thanks❣️😊
The good ol onion diagram! Mine is more like a strawberry...😊
i technically know about these sorts of things but i have such an intense desire to bond with people and connect and be close that i often want most people in closer layers to me. xD but they dont always feel the same… and i try to accept that and not be Too Much. but sometimes im just too excited its too hard lol. i overshare a lot … im audhd
Awesome " onion graph" 😃😼👍
Oh man. I’m autistic and I didn’t realize that not everyone who talked to me more than once was a friend until I was like. 20.
Shrek prepared me to learn about relationships lol
Thank you. It's hard to find a printable.
Hi! Do you have a link to this diagram? A quick Google search didn't bring it up, and I think this would be very helpful for some of my clients! (I'm a speech-language pathologist working with kids!)
I would also find this helpful!
I would love to read more about this, do you have any recommendations?