House of the Dragon S2 | Blood & Cheese in the Books vs. TV Show
Вставка
- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- It was the premiere Episode of House of the Dragon Season 2 and there is a lot to talk about, with the biggest & most important topic being the difference between the show version and the books version of BLOOD & CHEESE.
We'll talk a little bit about what happened on the HBO show House of the Dragon & what took place differently in the 'Fire & Blood' book written by George RR Martin. Let me know which version you like better and why.
Anyone who hasn’t read the book, this man does an audio version of it on this channel and it’s pretty frickin spectacular. Listening to the audio book really got me into this series even more
I appreciate you! ❤️
I listened to his narration of the book probably 3 times. Spectacular
@@tendaimusari1325
@@TheBattProductions I doubt you remember me but my username used to be unclemandragon and we interacted a bunch on here. I made a new account to get that free 3 months of premium lol. I’ve been loving your content for a long time. When I think of this story, I think of you. You’re the best my dude. Thanks for being so cool and interacting with fans. And thanks for the exceptional content 🔥🐉
The book version is much better. I don't miss the gore as it's a lil child, but I do miss the emotion, the intensity and fear factor from the book. What was a bit out there about the series version is that there's no guards anywhere in the halls around their bedrooms. If it was just Criston Dirtycloak that was meant to watch all their bedrooms that is ridiculous and not enough if something goes down. Also , I was more upset about the dog than anything else.
Valid point here!
“Criston Dirtycloak” 😂😂😂. Good one !
Absolutely. I don’t want to see a kid beheaded or anything - I just want to see the decision-making of Helaena. That’s the meat for me.
The dog. THE DOG.
I never read the Book Version of the Blood and Cheese but I was still terrified and felt bad for poor Helena.
But I see now that the books make a lot of sense now that I know.
BTW Still pretty hilariously stupid that the Alicent and Cristian Cole in bed ruined the whole scary moment.
Absolutely. Them in bed definitely helped ruin the moment in a big way, IMO.
I’m just in shock that they managed to screw this scene up. The book version was perfect, the homework was already done, just copy it.
I definitely think they made it worse. No doubt.
I agree completely ruined it. It's not even about the gruesomeness that makes blood and cheese impactful in the book but the dynamics and that little bit of dialogue that makes it such a psychological horror for Alicent and Helena
@@jdh5224 Exactly. The choice is everything for me.
Wow, if people are not subscribed to your channel they are really missing out!! Thank you Thank you for this!!! I feel bad for the folks whose first experience is the Max Series of Fire & Blood… Please listen to the Audiobook on this channel if you get a chance!!!!
“Like a couple of cymbals in a Marching Band” wtf. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Agreed 😄
You’re the best 🙏
To be fair to Heleana before she spoke they already said it has to be a son does she look like a son to you? So Heleana is already aware they won’t take her instead.
Logically, sure. But to Helaena she isn’t thinking that way. She has to try at least and when she’s turned down, it makes her torture even more ya know. And then having to make the choice still…brutal.
Ok, trying a theory as a Non book reader. What if when Helena had her vision, she saw what happened if she refused to tell, and knew it was better to tell the truth and then bug out with the girl. Then to make it worse, the man who was probably supposed to be just outside her door to make sure that didn’t happen was boning her momma. I found it pretty horrible, but it was never going to be a red wedding moment, we didn’t know that kid, he was on for 2 minutes. We loved Rob, Caitlin,Grey Wind, Arya knowing what was happening and not being able to help, that killed us because we got to know them over 3 seasons. Anyway that is how I feel lol. But again I didn’t read it in the books. I listened to it once a few years ago and it didn’t stand out to me. I mean it was awful in the book, and yes it kicked the war into gear, but not Red Wedding to me in any case.
I have to agreed with you. It is definitely not a red wedding moment. But oh how it had the potential to be…the way the masses were shocked when Luc got two bite chomped by Vaghar in season one! From a series stand point I guess they could have only gone so far with Child unaliving… and had to tone it down and spin it in a biased way..? idk… but valid point here overall…
I feel like it would have been better t than to focus on Blood and Cheese sneaking in to the castle to focus on the other green characters, Aegon, Aemond, Heleana, and Alicent. Bc we the know there is danger but it’s more suspenseful if we don’t know where they are, or we see blood and cheese in the background but they don’t notice.
Aegon is basically doing the same thing, Aemond is going back to his room or with Otto a bit longer, Alicent refusing request to say good night to her grand kids bc she drank wine sleep or milk of the poppy, and Heleana is telling her kids a story and maybe sends the maid to fetch some water.
(Personally I think Alicent should have been with Heleana bc Heleana’s reaction of going non verbal and into shock is natural she is the least developed of the greens and the audience is more attached to Alicent who would have a more expressive reaction)
I actually agree with you for sure - I think it would’ve been better to use the time to focus on characters other than Blood and Cheese finding their way. Would’ve been better I think to see other stuff. Maybe even Criston and Alicent at it again or something. I dunno.
But the buddy cop film of Blood and Cheese was meh.
To me, it was never gonna hit like the Red Wedding. Yes, it’s shocking but you have to be a little delusional to compared the two. Even if it was exactly like the books, still would’ve hit the same.
And I think that’s largely a fair critique. Was it ever really going to be on the same level? No and I knew that. Just in quantity of characters, it couldn’t compete. Or the ones dying aren’t as important. But the brutality of the scene on TV could’ve been on par I thought.
I wonder how much of the decision to make the scene less dramatic than the books was due to the age of the child actors involved?
That's some serious trauma to expect a couple of 6 year old's, and a 2 year old, to "act" through.
If someone had asked me when my daughter was 6 if I would allow her to be in such a graphically disturbing scene, I'd have said hell NO!
That's a bit too much.
The way they did it would have left little to no emotional scars on the children who acted the parts.
Could the same be said if they had acted out what the book depicted?
That was my thought also. I would not have been able to watch "the real deal" out of empathy for the very young actors. Like no amount of salary would be worth that amount of therapy later on
I think there’s ways you can do it where the kids are barely even on the set, so I certainly hope that isn’t what is holding this back. Heck I barely remember anything from when I was 6 but to be fair fake deaths weren’t all around me, hah.
The choice was important, but the most important part of the Blood and Chese story is that nobody know their names. That sounds like the Faceless men to me. Daemon is a character established in a full season to be hands on. There is no way in hell, Daemon would hire clowns to go kill Aemon. Daemon will do it himself. I believe the purpose of the Blood and Cheese story is that someone interested in a war between the dragons pull the right strings to fan the flames and pin it on the Blacks. That is why I didn't like the whole scenes of Daemon contracting the Assassins. It would have been best to just keep the scene where a rat Catcher alread had access to the palace. Then you turn that same rat catcher into an Assassin. Then the fall guy would confess and pin it on the Blacks. That is the Game of Thrones way of doing politics which is why I love Game Of thrones.
I think that makes a ton of sense honestly. I mean I will say I don't think Faceless Men would've been so theatrical like Blood & Cheese were in the show or books, so I do think that part is accurate and probably not Faceless Men.
However, I do believe Daemon would go to those lengths to get done what he wants.
Following Blood and Cheese for the set up was honestly the biggest mistake in the whole thing. I'm still miffed that they omitted Maelor and had the kids be asleep but let me explain the B&C part:
- Following B&C inadvertently makes us root for them (especially since the audience is not clued in to an alternate plan so we think they're purely going for Aemond). We follow their POV so we feel attached to them on some level just knowing that our viewing experience relies on their success (hence why we feel tension when we think they've been caught even if we lowkey might want that)
- Following B&C especially when they apparently have little to no plan and it goes south immediately just shows us that these two men are lucky idiots which begs the question 'why the fvck were THESE the two people Daemon thought would be best equipped for the job? A rat catcher whose knowledge of the Red Keep apparently ends right where we need it the most (the Royal quarters) and just some random big guy??
What they should've done (aside from rewriting the whole actual scene a bit) is intercut B&C moving through the castle with snippets of Aemond moving around as well. That way, we know where they're headed, we don't get as attached, and ideally we never have to see them being total fvckwits not knowing where to go (just cut that whole scene where Blood chokes Cheese in a non-kinky way and Cheese then kicks his own dog, it was weird). Once they reach Aemond's chambers and realize he's no longer there, we cut to see Helaena putting the kids (ideally THREE) to bed. Then we cut to a random scene. Maybe Otto disguising something with Crispy, idk, one of the scenes that already existed but we're now reformating the episode just a bit. When we see Helaena again, we see her freeze and notice B&C. Now, continue the scene as it was but ideally included Maelor, having the kids wake up, etc. This way we never get really attached to B&C but it never becomes wholly obvious that they had a back-up plan in killing Jaehaerys...
Totally agreed. That's an amazing way to handle it...the idea that they would've landed in Aemond's room, but you seem them appear in front of Helaena. That's amazing. I love that.
Great idea for a scene.
I think they did something interesting with this change that they could have been important later, but alas, they didn’t. In the way they changed it Helaena now knows about Alicent and Cole and what happened is partially their fault. She could have been a threat to them in this way.
But I watched this episode with my husband who hasn’t read the book and from his reaction this was nowhere near as impactful as the Red Wedding. I think that is a good comparison as they are horrific events in similar ways.
I know it's not terribly relevant, but I didn't see a reason to have the dog there in the first place..I wonder if it was just there, as you said, to have him kick it and make us hate the guy (as if it isn't easy to dislike a guy who kills kids anyway).
I'm on the same page. I guess it helps legitimize the rat catcher since I'm sure they usually have a dog with them, but other than that...it felt like it was just to see the dog get kicked and that blows.
I really liked this version. Book and series Helana are two very different characters, so I enjoyed seeing how she reacted differently to this trauma. It was different and also very realistic for her to just disassociate and go into shock.
I think that’s fair if you like it - for sure. For me it was a bummer of course but what can ya do. I’m sure the show will continue to do well.
Yes, exactly what you said Kevin. I was hoping that I once I took a couple of days to process the show, I would feel better about the scene. But, alas, nope. I hope they've got plans for show Helena that would make it impossible for traumatized insane book Helena to accomplish. I don't wanna go through another GOT season 8 situation. And again, bringing the dog just to have it kicked was stupid, cheep, and lazy writing. Dan and Dave would be proud. #teamdragon.
Absolutely...I'm glad that you kind of dig what I said on this topic since Blood and Cheese was good, it just wasn't quite what it could be IMO.
I do wish they had added the choice she has to make. It's such a heart breaking moment for her character. I understand they could show the kill or the other horrible event that happens. There was no need for the dog stuff, these people are lost to history
Exactly. I don't want to see kids die or anything, I just want to see the agony of the decision. That's a pretty reasonable take IMO!
....it was underwhelming. I don't understand why they did not go all out red wedding.
More or less, I agree of course!
Weird that didn't do more with it
I was a bit disappointed with this representation of Blood and Cheese, but I personally couldn’t be entirely mad at it. I watched this episode with a friend and his partner, and his partner has never seen a single episode of Game of Thrones or House of the Dragon. They jumped into this show on this episode, completely cold. Therefore, if we had ended the episode and they had Red Wedding levels of horrified, it could possibly have made getting them to watch the episode with my friend and I next week that much harder.
Am I excited about the change? No, but I guess I’ll take it 🤷🏻♀️
It does make me wonder if they’re just completely doing away with something else from the book though
I'm not entirely mad at it either for what it's worth. I thought it was fine/good, but a little turned off.
I'm glad for your friend/their partner's sake it wasn't Red Wedding level because that would've been AGGRESSIVE, hah.
I am also curious as to what they may change from the book considering this happened. Seems like a small change, but I think it was kind of important still.
I feel like they were trying to show Helena as this autistic person tbh, this was not stated in fire and blood. So both are different characters tbh but yeah I agree book version was a better scenario
I am so happy you said that… I always felt like that but I couldn’t put my finger on it!!!! You are valid!
And I think that’s moreso what they’re doing with Helaena but I mean the choice could still be a thing even with that factored in, IMO. But that’s just me.
@@TheBattProductions yeah.. One more thing is that.. In the books she was stated to be a dragon rider for the green side until it happened.. It's so hard to imagine her fighting at any capacity in the show
@@shantanusengupta1749 Absolutely. I mean she has a dragon and all that, but chances of her riding seemed pretty slim...now after this? Forget it.
What if Sir Wylas Manderly had a son, Sir Willam Mandelry
A year younger than Lady Wynfred and being born in 281 AC and three years older than Lady Wyla. Months before the start of A Song of Ice And Fire he turns sixteen in the same month Bran turns seven.
At sixteen in Westeros a boy becomes a man, his grandfather Lord Wyman and Father Sir Wylas still alive he knowns he will not be Lord of White Habour for a long time so he dicededs to see the world beginning with his native north.
Months before the story he arrives in Winterfell and takes a liking the seven-year-old Lord Brandon Stark and Lord Bran and Sir William become good friends. He asks his liege Lord Eddard Stark if he may take his son as his squire.
Ok yes, I was inspired by Dunk and Egg a little bit but there only, similarities, there a young knight and Squire traveling across Westeros and there close friends. That’s it Sir William he is the future heir to White Harbor traveling with a small but opulent retinue, he will be welcomed in Lordy Courts across the realm and they will stay in all the finest inns and when in isolated places such as the wood in Sir Williams pavilion or large tent.
Lord Eddard agrees and by the time of Jon Arryn's death there in the reach.
Very interesting idea...mHJhmhmhmhmmhh
completely ruined it. It's not even about the gruesomeness that makes blood and cheese impactful but the dynamics and that little bit of dialogue that makes it such a psychological horror for Alicent and Helaena.
Bingo. It's really just the whole situation. The dialogue. Everything.
A bunch of people have approached me to ask why people are so mad about Blood and Cheese… they didn’t read the book
Exactly. I mean it was a good scene, but with knowledge of the books, it isn't quite as good!
😢
It was not nearly as good as the book. They spent so much time on those two men walking around down there…. Even the poor dog got more screen time than Helena. It was like watching the ending of game of thrones. Very very disappointing when they had the time.. who cares those two men …just who cares. They are nobody. Helena. Was traumatized but got an inth of the screen time that the dog did.
It was the pivotal point in the war and the dog got the screen time.
I dont know why they needed to kick it either. Why???
That’s what I think basically. I think it was a lot better as well - definitely not on par with the book. And yeah it was fine but still!
I can't understand why people give a shit about these two characters,they appear in just one chapter
Because they do one of the most horrifying things we see in all of the books bro!
@@TheBattProductionsThey did the same thing here so why are you so upset
@@flavius5722 I hate to sound silly here, but if you watched my video I don't think they did the same thing here.
@@TheBattProductions I am sarcastic, people are disappointing that the scene were a baby is killed wasn't more detailed, the had died in both cases ,what is the complain here
I was personally expecting that they will skip this two usles characters at all
@@flavius5722 Oh I couldn't sense the sarcasm. My bad man.
First like
First like of THIS POST 👊
Your angry because they kicked the dog. But disappointed that they didn't show a child being beheaded . WTF
Nope. I said I didn't care about the kid being beheaded - that was irrelevant to me. I just wanted the part where Helaena had to choose.
Subbing for good takes
No idea how much I appreciate it, my friend
@@TheBattProductions ☺️☺️☺️ !
@@LilBrownieD I appreciate you! Now make sure to let me know your own takes whenever you're feeling it!
@@LilBrownieD Greatly appreciate it! Now make sure to let me know your hot takes whenever you're up to it!