Discussing Why the Targaryen Greens are Annoying (But It's Not ALWAYS Their Fault)
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- Опубліковано 21 чер 2024
- I am a fan of the Targaryen Blacks of Rhaenyra, Daemon, Corlys, Rhaenys, etc. and I just can't bring myself to be a big fan of the Targaryen Greens full of losers like Aegon II, Otto Hightower, Alicent, Ser Criston Cole, Helaena, etc. and this video is all about while acknowledging the Greens SUCK...maybe all of it isn't totally their fault. I am all about nuance here so I say let's chat about it!
It was the premiere Episode of House of the Dragon Season 2 and there is SO MUCH to talk about! - Розваги
Otto to Alicent: When you comfort the king, I might suggest that you wear one of your mother's dresses...
He hoe'd her out. No doubt!!!!
@@TheBattProductions Wouldn't every lord though in his position, that's what usually happens in royal courts, don't aprove but it's quite common.
@@mariadimitroulia645 Just like the Boleyn family. 😬
@@mariadimitroulia645
Not every lord is going to marry their daughter to a man that made it very clear the child from the previous marriage is the heir Otto just vile.
What if Blood and Cheese succeeded in killing Aemond instead of Jaehaerys?
Aegon 2 bends the knee and the war ends
Huge change. Aemond has a lot to do in the upcoming story...almost shed a tear thinking about how different it'd be!
I’m pretty sure Aemond would have killed them both. They would have to wait till he is asleep
@@kaledovtrue, I bet he sleeps with daggers under his pillow lmbo
@@TheBattProductions Perhaps Daeron would come back to King's Landing. And I really think Meleys would win against Tessarion and Sunfyre. Hell, the Blacks could have won the damn war really quickly. And the rightful queen would rule for twenty years or so.
Some what if suggestions:
Daemon keeps the stepstones crown
Laena lives
One of the Got characters in Hotd, like Jamie instead of Jason, Danerys instead of Rhae
Laenor wasn't gay
Great suggestions...Jaime Lannister in HOTD? Love it.
@@TheBattProductions I've seen people do similar things with Naruto and DBZ, thought it would be cool. Jamie was different from Jason, both were arrogant but Jamie wasn't a simp for every girl with a powerful family and could have had an awesome rivalry with Criston Cole. If you want to get really creative, replace both Jason and Tyland with Jamie and Tyrion to see how these characters would interact in Hotd plus there's no tywin. Also I don't think Jamie+Tyrion would be ass kissers to Otto and the Greens like the other Lannister duo
@@shantanusengupta1749 I love DBZ so I'm intrigued what they did in thsoe videos. Very interesting indeed!
I have no sympathy for the greens. Otto was planning their take over ever since he told his daughter to comfort the king.
Bahaha. Haymaker i"m glad to see you here hitting the Greens with all of the shade. Otto deserves hate even though I like him a lot. Greens earned quite a bit of vitriol.
@@TheBattProductions This is the house that Otto built.
@@haymaker710 You're not gonna get a strong argument from me about it! He definitely is reaping what he sowed.
All I know is that a certain dragonpit scene will be devastating and probably the sadest scene in all of HOD if they even do that part of the book. The way this series is going atm they'll probably cut that out too.
They can’t skip the whole thing. It’s too important to the story It will be a CGI nightmare though.
I hope they don't. I mean how could they?!
favorite quote of the vid “i mean if your best friend is hooking up with you dad????… what the hell. “🤣
Baha - I mean it's true! Like what the frick dude?!? MY DAD!
It would be shocking to see Daeron Targaryen in the show (The Third Son of the Greens). But I shouldn’t keep my hopes up.
But Still, I go with The Targaryen Blacks all the way
We do have a shot at seeing it thankfully. I think Daeron was mentioned to be at Oldtown in S1 learning stuff, so maybe we'll get him in the future.
You need to totally get out of my head! LOL - Everything you feel is exactly the same way I feel - about EVERYTHING and how things are going down! Tonight's episode (2 Season 2) the plot will thicken! LOL!
I WANT TO GET INTO YOUR HEAD FURTHER! MUAHAHA
No I'm kidding - I mean yeah, I think the Greens are an interesting case. I think they're the antagonists of course, but they aren't *all* bad either I suppose. So sometimes I think hey maybe I'm too harsh on them.
Can't wait for tonight!
Whole point of the war and the conflict is that neither side truly deserved to win. both were awful, and the destruction was a pointless waste.
I think that's the end morality and everything, but The Greens are the antagonists and I'll think that till I die. Hah.
As King Jahaerys knew I suppose
I think both siding this is a vary disingenuous argument because while both sides have flaws one side is clearly worse then the other , dispute her flaws rhenyrea shouldn't have been denied the throne just because she didn't have a dick and should have been given a proper chance to rule which is the whole message of the dance, meanwhile there is no good reason for why aegon should be king beyond that he has a dick they are simply not the same, sure both sides ended up being bad for westsros but that soly is the greens fault because they started the war in the first place.
@@thatoneblackdude3333 Exactly. That's why I think it's a fair thought to say both sides aren't great - the Greens are clearly worse here IMO. They stole the Throne and did it in a sneaky miserable way IMO. Not even via Conquest...they just took it in the middle of the night like a sneak. So so muchcowardice.
@@TheBattProductions on top of that the greens commit the worst atrocious during the dance the sack of tumblton and aemond burning the river lands comes to mind, say whatever you want about rhenyrea and daemon nether of them do anything nearly as bad as the greens during the war blood and cheese is the worst thing they do and even then that was a act of retaliation.
Question: do you think all the the extra swords around the Iron Throne went to the blacksmiths to make scorpion bolts?
That'd be an interesting theory, that's for sure. I mean I'm sure everyone including myself is trying to understand where the hell the swords went by the time of GOT, hah.
@@TheBattProductions inquiring minds wants to know…and if the crown can’t pay their bills, here comes the repo-small folks.
@@themeanhornet1070 Baha. I mean that may work.
@@TheBattProductions why did Jamie Lannister go to New York instead of Winterfell to play baseball? Because a Lannister always plays with Mets!!!
@@themeanhornet1070 Alright I need your help on this one because I admit I don't understand the joke. Help!
Great thinking points here 🤔I do not “hate” the Greens. I just like the Targaryen’s waaaaay more! In the book & in the series! They have so much more to prove and risk! And you are absolutely correct about Aegon the II. I actually like Aegon more in the series than the book. Max is spinning the characters and story lines just a bit🤏🏾. Most likely due to budgets & the amount of episodes. Otto was written well and Rhys plays him perfectly. I am curious of who The Batt community feels has the breakout role on the show?
Hah - exactly! I mean the Blacks are where it's at. I think they've got the better people on their side and they're much more appealing.
Aegon II is so much better than a Joffrey. Dude didn't care and was miserable. Aegon doesn't care, but in a caring way - if that makes sense.
Love Otto Hightower even though he's a problematic guy that hoes his daughter out to elderly kings.
@@TheBattProductions I get the “not caring in a caring way.” Does Otto have good intentions by putting his family first and wanting them to be on the throne? “Meh” the intentions might be good but the execution highly suggestive! That is such an interesting mindset to have going in as an actor.
@@christmashall Absolutely...it's an interesting thought I think!
It’s good to see an objective point of view that is akin to dissent as the majority blindly favor the Blacks. Now many support the Blacks while overlooking the transgressions Daemon & Rhaenyra have committed. Daemon is my favorite charcter but we can’t forget how flawed he is. He isn’t evil, per se, but he is willing to eschew morality if the ends justify the means. They faked Laenor’s death by killing an innocent man which was cruel because it caused Rhaenys & Corlys to think their only remaining child was dead. Rhaenyra obviously had kids with dubious parentage which not only caused succession issues & problems but it wasn’t very fair to the kids either. Rhaenyra had animus toward her childhood best friend Alicent even though it was her father’s doing & choice which wasn’t very fair. Etc, etc. It’s not as Black & Green, so to speak, as many make it out to be.
Viserys was truly a decent man but was a poor king & he showed marked favoritism toward Rhaenyra while neglecting his other children. Rhaenyra admitted that he named her as heir to spurn Daemon & Viserys even said he did so due to the guilt he felt for his wife’s death. He didn’t name her as Heir based on merit like he outwardly claims. His passivity in his royal duties & dealing with family issues is what created the problems which festered & spiraled. Again, he was a good man but his errors which led to so many bad things are what makes it hurt even more. He was an enabler basically which led to him being ineffectual of the rift in his family which set up the framework for the familial infighting which was disastrous.
I liked how they showed Aegon’s softer side in this episode. He truly loves his children & wants to be present & involved as a father which is one of his childhood trauma’s as his father neglected him. Also Alicent poisoned his mind with ideas of Rhaenyra executing him in the future. Aegon is highly flawed but a lot of it isn’t all his fault.
Now while the Greens installed Aegon II as king it was based on a misunderstanding my Alicent - it wasn’t malicious intent. Also, Aemond played with literal fire in antagonizing Luke but he didn’t mean to kill his own nephew. Daemon on the other hand intentionally ordered the murder of his own kin.
This whole tragic saga is sad & tragic. It could have & should have been avoided. They really were their own worst enemy. Anyway, there are no clear sides in this tragedy even though many side with the blacks. That may change as it gets uglier. It’s all gray & there is no good side. Ironically the only decent people here are Queen Helaena who is too pure & sweet for this world. Also, Daeron, Alient’s 3rd son is missing & by all accounts he was a virtuous & decent young man. I love the show & love the story but it is extremely sad & tragic. It is fiction but you wish it went differently. I’m on the Starks side but I do like the Targaryens. It’s a shame that they ostensibly destroyed themselves. At this point in the history they had a huge family & multiple dragons yet they squandered it all over power & vengeance which can be extremely poisonous. Sad.🙁🫣😨😱🫤😵
Exactly. I think you've made a ton of great points here - and it's true. I think the Greens are really flawed, but they aren't entirely bad people of course and Rhaenyra/Daemon certainly have their own skeletons that have driven some of the Greens to be what they are now.
Trying to keep it objective is tough in a show where you're supposed to take a side in-and-out of the story really, but I think I've found a way to strike a good balance despite being Team Black until I die!
Awesome commentary, man.
@@TheBattProductions Thanks for the kind words & thanks for reading. I know it’s a bit long winded & wordy but I try to be thorough & detailed. Now the YT comments section isn’t meant to be a long form discussion area, but one of the many unfortunate by-products of social media is that we have shorter attention spans & most comments are just short, pithy & reductive replies. Everything is discussed & debated at a superficial level to our detriment. I often get the TLDR which basically epitomizes everything I just said. It won’t kill you to read or write a few paragraphs. I think this phenomena is one of the reasons society has been dumbed down. Or not.🤷♂️
Thanks again though. Appreciate it. Keep up the great work. Be safe & cheers.😁👍
I loved this video! I’m ride or die Daemon and Team Black. Green Supporters have been waiting 2 years for people to turn against him. They’re are going to humanise him again when he gets all gooey with Rhaenerya. In the next time trailer, Rhaenerya says something about history painting you as a Villain and I’m pretty sure it’s to Daemon. Well the histories painted him gray but right now people who already hated Daemon are the ones crying evil and villain. Unreliable narrator anyone? Now all that said, it’s just a TV show, everyone needs to chill.
I actually have no anger at the Greens. I enjoy the conversations between Alicent and Otto. Tom Glen-Carney as Aegon is doing a terrific job and provides some much needed comic relief. Overall, I enjoy watching them way more than last season. The excellent acting across the board cannot be overstated.
I went back and watched that scene in Ep5 between Cole and Rhaenerya on the boat. I’m giving a shout out to Fabian Frankel. The man needs some love. Out of all the original older characters, I think they’re doing the least amount of character work on him. I hope they rectify that this season. I honestly do not think he is happy about having sex with Alicent. I mean, does he look happy? Well, when you can see his face I mean. 😂 (oh that was so bad) Frankly, I could do without it.
Alicent has always seemed like a fish out of water. Perhaps when she discovers the people in the pool are piranhas, maybe she’ll be glad to be where she is.
Aemond great. Aegon, pleasantly surprised. Otto, always fun to watch but an incompetent Iago. Helena ❤️.
Thank you Vanessa! I mean that's the thing, I'm ride or die Black but I think it's fun to discuss the nuance of things. Daemon...yeah I can see why people will outright just label him as a villain. He's earned it a bit, hah. But he's cool and his heart generally is in the right place.
I feel like the Hightower family is a classic case-study, in the cycle of mental-emotional abuse. It's heavily implied in the first season that Otto was physically abusive towards Alicent, too, when she was little. The memories of this would, understandably, keep her from ever acting against him, thought she might've briefly thought about it once or twice. She passes the mistrust and fear he instilled in her down to her children, especially her two oldest sons, though they cope with it in different ways. I do have sympathy for her, in that regard, but only that. Her decisions in adulthood are still her own to make, and most of them are clearly rooted in extreme jealousy. The princess had everything that Alicent never did:
1] a father who genuinely loved and respected her
2] children who adored her and showed it
And 3] a social circle that upheld her free spirit, rather than try to stamp it out
This season, so far, Alicent seems to be slowly trying to steal everything that was Rhaenyra's, beyond the crown, itself. Just one example is how she took the man Rhaenyra had her first time with as her own lover, and both of their known trysts took place in her former best friend's old chambers. The obsession she and Criston appear to have with this is creepy a-f.
(6/25/2024)
I think this is a really thorough and awesome bit of perspective on the crazy house that is the Hightowers. They have a ton of different things happening within their family, that's for sure and it centers around Alicent really.
@@TheBattProductions My mom studied psychology and sociology for more than twenty-five years, and she hid nothing of that from me. I knew who Sigmund Freud was, by the time I reached first grade. So, that's how I'm able to break stuff down like this. (6/26/2024)
@@daniellemusella1594 Bahaha. I think that's very unsurprising, for sure.
I smashed that like button faster than Crispin smashed Alicent after she said “we can’t do this anymore.” 😜
Bahahaha…
I love you. You’re great.
Great video sir !!!!!! 🏰🖤🐲👑
Thank you my friend!
@@TheBattProductions mi lord I been with ya since 2017 .....I don't plan on leaving anytime soon!
In a modern lens; Rhaenyra is a drunk 17 year old who slept with a much older bodyguard who was sworn to protect her. I have NO sympathy for Cole. He attacks innocents left right and centre. He abuses children just because he wasn’t their bio dad.
Alicent hates her friend for finding happiness in her prison, and is accepted, instead of scrutinised for it. To Alicent, duty means suffering under the hands of the men around you, no matter how unfair. Seeing Rhaenyra be accepted for birthing ‘bastards’ (I place that in quotes because the Strong boys are accepted by Laenor and Corlys, the husband and the head of house Velaryon, as well as the King, making them legitimate in all the ways that matter). Rhaenyra has managed to be loved even when she ‘trampled all over duty’. So, I have no sympathy for a woman who has turned into an abuser because she wasn’t loved by the men around her.
Well I mean Criston couldn't really say no to Rhaenyra in that instance. I mean yeah it sounds fun in theory, but it's more than just sex - a knight who had some form of honor gave it all up in that moment. So yeah I feel a little bad, but I don't feel *very* bad, hah.
But you (Kevin) can’t argue the show is really bias towards the blacks even though they did bad things like take aemond eye and rhaenyra having bastards
I think season 1 portrayed the greens harshly (although they’re worse in the books) and that’s why it’s hard to root for them
Oh absolutely. Both sides have their scars, but I think the show completely made them the bad guys.
I’m Team Black, but I’m almost Team Green because Olivia Cooke could snap my neck and I would forgive her.
She could put me in a headlock with her legs and I'm fine with it
@@TheBattProductions 🤝
@@Condor-gb1xp There we go!~
I'm team black but I can't say that the greens don't have a leg to stand on.
Otto is trying to protect his house from Daemon who is the biggest threat to him.
Alicent has spent years doing her duty but rhaenera has squandered it and she waits till her son is on the throne before she breaks rules.
But got tbh aemond and Christon Cole are still very hard to understand but I'm hoping that will change.
Overall though, love the series and can't wait to see the rest of the season.
Absolutely. The Otto/Daemon battle is one I've enjoyed since Day 1.
Alicent and Rhaenyra are another fun battle to see played on a different level.
Aemond and Cole...yeah at the moment, they're just people who want to kill a lot. But Aemond has the inferiority complex as a child that keeps poking up. Wants the Throne, but sort of doesn't. Wants all things (including Helaena I think) but doesn't. Dude just wants to sit there and purse his lips.
Love the show and can't wait to see what Ep 2 brings us tonight!
Broo im already subscribed… that fucking ding 😵💫
YOU'RE THE BEST. Thank you for being subbed man.
The ding gets out of control sometimes I CAN'T HELP IT IT"S GOT A MIND OF ITS OWN
It always comes funny to me that people blaming Aegon for usurping the throne while he was the legitimate son of Viserys, while supporting Strong boys and calling who supports the Greens "hypocrites". :D:D:D:D
Ertac! Of course you're here! Bahahah
I think the Greens are basically every nasty thing in the book (because I'm bias) BUT they do get treated a littttleeeeee bit badly by fans
But they're the antagonists and I'll die on that hill, hah.
@@TheBattProductions Haha, nah I’m just having the pleasure to watch people defend the Blacks as they were the same people who were against Lannisters while watching GoT. Hilarious really!
Much love mate.;)
@@ertacaltinoz Hey buddy, you know I *love* the Lannisters so you know I'm consistent with my love of problematic characters. Hah.
Aegon is a userper because he isn't visarys hier rhenyrea is and most of westaros acknowledges this literally aemond admitted yhey userpered the throne, the strong boys regardless of there true identity are acknowledged hiers visarys and corlys claim them as their successors the greens are hypocrites tho they justify there actions with trying to make peace when there the ones causing the war .
@@ertacaltinozthe blacks and the lannesters aren't in any way similar.
Team Black all the way baby!!
DADDY DAEMON!!!
How do so many ppl forget that Aegon is a rapist, Daemon murdered his first wife, and Aemond caused the death of a child.
And ppl wanna get mad at Rhaenyra for having kids out of wedlock? Gimme a break.
Rhaenyra had some dude murdered so her fake husband could run away
And Bob the dog getting kicked!
I dunno. I certainly didn't forget about Aegon being a rapist, but I also know that doesn't define him either as the character grows beyond his hopeless upbringing. Like that may not be a thing anymore for him so I don't get hung up on it.
Aemond definitely botched it. Daemon is a guy you can never agree with all of his actions, but you dig his vibe. I mean I'm pretty sure this episode he's gonna borderline fight Rhaenyra and I don't think people will like that, hah.
Rhaenyra was just trying to *have a little funnn* who can blame her.
I definitely didn’t forget about Aegon but Daemon on the other hand, he had to do what he had to do so he could marry his boo and I’m not mad at it. I love Daemon! His lady wife had to go.
@@nicnack2548 A wife was murdered I don't care about, so I don't even care. Hah. Rhaenyra + Leaena + Daemon is what matters.
At least they're not boring.
I'd be gutted if they were boring. I love a good antagonist. I'm a Lannister fan through and through because they just make the story go woo woo woo.
Team Green!! The underdogs ✅
BOOOOO anyone who flies a Green banner WILL MEET MY SWORD!
I'm team black, but omg I hate Daemon. You can't convince of anything redeeming about him cuz there is none. Atleast not the show version.
Hating Daemon is probably fair, but I love him - hah.
you can’t get behind the greens bc you specifically say they are “usurpers” yet you’re someone who loves king robert baratheon…..something ain’t adding up my friend
They're absolutely usurpers! The line of succession was made clear and they stole it. Didn't even win a war for it, they just took in the middle of the night like a sneak thief.
Robert Baratheon won his Throne via conquest, so I think of them differently. But for what it's worth, I'm a Lannister fan through and through, hah. Baratheons are cool but meh.
@@TheBattProductions to hell with bobby b he had no true right to the throne like the first born son of the king aegon did. i’m a green targaryen fan through and through so we’ll have to agree to disagree on the usurper claim
Technically he did as he is a descendent of oris Targaryen
@@dakotalange2858 by that logic, oberyn martell has the same amount of claim to the throne then, since technically he is a descendent of rhaenyra n daemon
The way the show adapted the dance is crapp, failed both the blacks and the greens, very boring show
Totally disagree but hey to each their own
FIRST
I just turned on your music (Silent Serenade) and it's really good. woahahahaha.