Someone did leave a comment on one of my videos that suggest Miquella is Ranni, Melina and the gloam eyed queen as far as i can remember. So yeah Miquella is practically everyone at this point lol, but no we are just having fun here.
@@G4meplus I can see! It's so funny and engaging to talk about any crazy totally out of touch theory anyone could think of, because the good theories always have big videos and discussions, and it's easy to forget that also having fun woth the lore is important
If Torrent isn't Miquella, they're definitely connected on a much deeper level than simply a boy and his horse. This is an excellent theory, thanks for sharing!
The player being the Shadow of Miquella would actually fit really really well. Less missing pieces of the puzzle and all that. Only thing missing would be who Malenia's Shadow is (unless maybe Finlay? But that would be another non wolf so idk)
Yea like I radagon and Marika The player character is Miquella or a mimic at least Torrent recognizes the soul of his master I think he has Miquella is the player character as his last vid
@@BRONCOS997 the player is miquella after he successfully removes himself from his cursed body and transfers his soul to a tarnished of no renown to put the world in the order he sees fit.
I think you nailed it with Miquella being the voice that tells us to touch the withered arm and about him being Torrent. It’s exactly the kind of “you’ve gotta be kidding me” gotcha moment both Miyazaki and George RR Martin love.
Also, you guys realize that those cutscene clips you’re seeing of Messmer and Miquella are most assuredly from boss fights right? These games don’t tend to have cut scenes at all except for the opening of a path, changing of circumstance (the eclipse, the erdtree burning, the nightmare progressing), or a boss fight. That scene of Miquella at the end of the trailer definitely gives vibes of him being made whole and about to give a monologue before he teleports all over the place and sends you to the shadow realm with a rain of golden light
here's another idea for research - have you noticed that some stakes of Marika are different - some are "crucified" and some with arms open but much lower in an about to hug you kind of pose - and the hug ones are mostly found in Nocron and cant remember where else. Another odd thing no video has ever mentioned is the gargole like statues that spit fire in deep root depth. Odd things with female face that looks almost like Merica with long-ish hair and weird gargoyle like bodies ?
the hugs remind me of Fia, but there is a being on the briar greatshield that is doing a twisty dance producing flames and flowers, with an undead reaching its arms out like its going to hug her and embrace the flames. The wear and tear on the shield looks a bit like ash falling from the undead and feeding the flowers like ash blossoms. This being is from a foreign land of solitary ascetics, something a solitary ascetic would do, is flail their own back, or crucify themselves for commiting a sin. The rest of the briar set shows some demon lady crucified to something, wrapped in thorny wires which is a symbol of the guilty. Guilty in the land they are in but maybe not where they are from. My hypothesis is that its the gloam eyed queen, now demonized for her culture she brought over. I think Iv'e seen some of those statues with their head and hands cut off like someone defiled the image. The gargoyles imo, symbolize the joining of a 2 or more beings into one, while trying to match the sheer power of dragons. Godwyns body is also a bit of a gargoyle of different things, like basilisk, some human, and some aquatic life? Idk if i'll ever know what it means for the story, but it seems like a put together monster theme is in play. The dragonkin soldier is another such abomination made of different parts. The fire breathing part is a bit of a mystery, the other gargoyles don't do it but some spit poison. Perhaps since their bodies are breaking down, the poison or something flammable is creating the fire breathing. I could be wrong, but I think most poisonous natural enemies freak out on fire. The mirandas for sure do. But maybe they are built different then the others, its said that the forces of the erdtree did not use fire, untill the war raged for too long. Perhaps the same time perfumers were allowed to use fire perfumes, gargoyles were built with fire spitting to help in the war
@@williamsaling9648does make sense but then why were most of the churches built after the shattering, wouldnt it make more sense that churches were built in the good old days before the shattering. I need to run through maps again to check but as far as I remember the hug ones are mostly in Nocron - its been a long time though so i gotta recheck
Idk its a fun theory but i personally think Miquella IS or was the guy in the cocoon and that hes still alive in spirit form (like ranni or melina). At the beginning of the mogh fight he addresses Miquella saying something like "youll have to abide alone for awhile" it seems like mogh and Miquella are cool with eachother and that mogh communes with Miquella in the realm of shadow. There are too many inconsistencies for me to believe that either torrent or melina are Miquella. Hair color seems very important for some reason to the lore, and Miquella is 100% blonde its like one of the only things we really know about him. Also Miquella has the "terrifying" power to compel love and loyalty (which i do not believe either candidates display) Also Miquella would probably have something to say to us as we roam the haligtree and face Melania, and melina seems to share no such sentiments (and before yall say anything yes you can get to the haligtree before melina cooks herself) Also, with lore as deep as elden ring's i wouldnt expect that our trusty steed torrent would be the creator of the haligtree. That would be pretty dumb i think, or there better be a damn good explanation for it if that is the case.
The fact that we kill Malenia has me really interested in what meeting Miquella will be like, so much so that I'm keeping her alive on another file to see if something happens
Really enjoy your content. I know there are a lot of topics to cover especially with DLC coming soon, but there’s one topic in particular that I haven’t really seen anyone expand on… Centipedes... Do you know much of mythology involving centipedes, why the golden centipede is referred to as a “fetish”, and why it is used as symbol of deathmark and eclipse? These questions have been nagging at me for a long time 😅
if I had to guess, I would bet it has something to do with Asian mythology. Centipedes aren't very mythological important in the west, but in the east there is a lot of mythology around them (they are associated with the concepts of death, rot, and Gu (extreme magic poison with supernatural properties), especially in Japan.
Awesome theory! One of the more unique and honestly super logical ones I’ve heard in a long time. I have no real meaningful critiques that I could even make about it. Can’t wait to see if the DLC proves this to be true. Great work!!
This was a very fun video to make outside of our usual, hope you have fun watching it ❤ I got a question for my awesome veteran audience: i changed the audio setup a bit, what do you think ? Is it better or should i revert back ?.
Nice theory, seems plausible. Now if you're right and Melina and Miquela are therefor working together could Melina be a part/spirit of Malenia? Millicent and her sisters show that this is possible and the fake name is on the same level as renna for ranni. Melina says that her mother gave her her purpose - what if she told malenia to protect her brother and to assist him in starting his new age. It would even fit in with Melina beeing St. Trina with Melina providing the adult corporial form and Miquella doing the sleep magic in secret to disguise his identity. Splitting Malenia into pieces or even Burning her flesh could have been part of Miquelas attemps to cure her or to preserve some of her original form.
That's quite interesting, i actually did a video talking about how Melina is part of someone but it was Marika not Malenia. So we are on the same track here but different conclusion.
Yuh know I bet the fact that white mask varre killed your characters maiden for miquella essentially because miquella is running the entire show. Your maiden had to be killed so miquella could be part of your journey long story short.
This theory as crazy as it sounds is amazing, the connection with the T-orrent and T-ryna is really interesting, and the raging wolf connection blow me away, now if torrent doesn’t transform into miquilla before or when we touch the arm I’ll be disappointed😂😂
The other interesting thing is where you can and can't go on Torrent. You can not ride him at the Haligtree. You can not ride him trying to get Frenzied Flame, nor out of time at Farum - the places Miquella wouldnt not want to go. Also, the only boss fight of Miquellas family you can use him in, is Radahn (i know this is down to arena). But also, this is the only one you need to kill to fulfill Rannis questline and Ranni/Miquella know this, pljs the only one driven mad and wouldnt recognise Miquella, where as the others surely would realise
The land of shadows is the land of dreams; Miyazaki when asked where it takes place in the timeline he said something vague like yes & no. Being a land of dream fits this description, It being between both the world of the living & dead, existing alongside the current timeline as well as not. This is explains why the drapes over the Tree are the drapes of marikas bed; This also connects to St Trina.
actually torrent isnt miquella, because in the end of frenzy ending, if melina was alive, she'd call the ring by torrent, and not miquella in the final moments, unless melina doesn't know who torrent is based on this theory which would be strange.
what if YOU are Miquella. not like Miquella himself, but more like his soul is in your body. think about it. the other Tarnished still remember who they are, but you? you dont know shit. its like you lost your memories or something, but why? waht if Miquella, stripping himself of all his power and memories, transfer his soul into a body of a no name Tarnish without renoun, in order to return to the Land Between, to take his place as Elden Lord...that would be an amazing plan, befit the name of the most fearsome empyrean. this also explain why Torren chose you, he reconized his master
The most compelling pieces of information to support this theory is the Raging Wolf Set and the Nascent Butterfly found at the beginning because these most likely point to the tarnished as Miquella's chosen shadow. The keyword here is chosen, and who chose us? Torrent. Furthermore, the most compelling evidence that Melina is not Miquella is that Miyazaki admitted that main game NPCs won't appear in the DLC due to inconsistencies in the story if an NPC died, and Melina is in the main game and dies either by the burning of the Erdtree or by the hands of the tarnished in the Frenzied Flame ending. I do think the narrator's voice in the story trailer is the knight that seems to lead Miquella's followers.
I dont think fromsoft ever mentions that the player is wearing the raging wolf set, i think it's just showing the character you get it from. He was probably the first tarnished to get involved with most of the demigods.
There's a phrase so common when you're questioning whether people who appear to be different are actually the same person that it is literally a trope: "Has anyone ever seen Miquella and Torrent in the same room together?" Yes. Yes they have.
when i click on this video i thought it was an absurd theory and was getting ready for a good laugh. But you made a compelling argument that has me truly thinking. it's possible!
There's no doubt that Miquella and Torrent share some connection but this would be a nice surprise! I like how it explains why "Torrent" is named as such, and your interpretation of why the Tarnished in the trailers wears the Raging Wolf set makes some sense as well.
Post-Shadow of the Erdtree's release, I think this theory may yet hold merit. I still believe there's potentially an interesting reason why Torrent picks our Tarnished at the beginning of the game; perhaps the Spirit Horse holds a part of Miquella who wants to stop his other self from becoming a God, just like St. Trina? Of course, Torrent could be willing and able to achieve this goal without any such extra supernatural reasons. Either way, he could have sensed in us someone who can resist Miquella's charms and would be willing to fight back against his plans, regardless of the reason why. Perhaps St. Trina sided with Ranni in order to further assist whoever Torrent chose, and is "former master" of Torrent who entrusted the Spirit Calling Bell to Ranni.
Why just marry? become miquela like radagon became marika lol. They aren't sure of miquela's gender. So, whatever you chose at the beginning of game, miquela should appear as such.
@@DirectorOfTime either a case like Marika and Radagon where they are two souls inhabiting one body or it’s just him dressing up in a dress. People in game aren’t even sure if st. Trina is a girl or boy.
to complete the miquella`s ascension to godhood marika had to sacrifice godwyn`s spirit and keep his body to use as a vessel for miquella`s spirit. so by planning the the night of black knifes and follow by it the events of war of shattering when both carians and the golden order and other factions busy fighting each other she give him time to complete the ritual but as we all know the plan goes wrong, malenia couldn't defeat radahn to make eclipse happening , mohg stole the cocoon and breaks it,the haligtree stops growing and worst of them all godwyn`s body starts changing its shape and spread the deathroot. now maybe miquella`s plan B is to helping us to collect great runes and be stronger to use our us as a vessel for himself?
I def think that Melina is rannis body and all things tied to the golden order, that’s why she doesn’t know things in the beginning because she split herself to break away from the order
What if the player is Miquella/Miquella's new avatar/body and torrent is choosing his master... while melina is miquella's spirit looking to reunite with her chosen body, which only torrent can detect due to her being a spirit that can only cause sleep...
My theory is that Miquella's plan is to fuse with Messmer to become a god of the Shadow plane (the soul realm). In Alchemy and Hermeticism it's worth looking into the Alchemical Wedding. Miquella and Messmer are 2 sides of the same coin. Like Marika and Radagon. I believe Marika and Radagon were once separate and she ascended her qualities that made her the other half of Radagon. I believe they fused in the same principal of the Alchemical Wedding. I think each Empyrean has a plane they must belong on. There are 3 general planes of existence: the physical, the astral / mind, and the soul. I believe each Empyrean aligns wirh this; Malenia being the physical plane where she is a swordswoman who's main deal is decay, rot and rebirth. Ranni being the Astral / mind / psychic. And Miquella being of the soul. Based on this I believe the butterflies represent each Empyrean. Since we're on the Lands Between I believe we are on the Astral (Ranni's) plane. I think Miquella knew this and that's why he never chose to fight Ranni because he knew it was her plane to begin with. The Astral plane is the 2nd stage in the cycle: Physical > Astral > Soul, so it would make sense it would be the Lands Between. I think Ranni and Miquella (maybe Malenia too) all conspired in the Night of the black knives. My theory beforehand is that Marika made it impossible for the Empyreans to leave to their respective planes because she didn't want to lose any children and broke the cycle. I believe across the other planes there will be respective "other half" Empyreans for both Ranni and Malenia too. - I have a dew more ideas that seem to go with these theories and make sense. Between looking at Jungian Psychology, Hermeticism, Alcehmy, Tarot, Kyballah and the Rosicrucians, there are some real similarities.
What a coincidence that I've stumbled upon this, considering I already had the idea of having Torrent be Miquella in my head-story/canon, and this inspired me to go for it! A non-cursed and adult shield warrior of celestial lightning Miquella who can turn into a kelpy some call "Torrent", the prince of the Haligtree and who is married to my character who is a warrior himself of celtic origins and a ghostflame/spirit water bender! XD I thought of a kirin previously, but now I kinda like the idea of him turning into a kelpy more! Suffice it to write, Miquella doesn't get kidnapped in my story, as it wouldn't make sense, Miquella can take care of himself, and Radagon and Marika are siblings because I found that whole "clone and knock himself up" thing really silly! Miquella was lucky to have been born healthy, considering his parents were siblings, but Malenia wasn't so lucky. So tempting to really get into creating this personal story! XD One thing about Elden Ring's poor and almost-nonexistent storytelling, it inspired the imagination!
I really like this outlandish and uncompromised theories. As for Vargram being Miquellas shadow, I think it's cool, but when we invade him, he uses the Godslayer Greatsword, kinda linking him to the Gloam Eyed Queen. But now we know that Melina is the GEQ, Miquella, and Torrent, so it all makes sense :P
Thanks my friend, there is a little misunderstanding tho. I meant that us being shown wearing that armor in particular may hint that we are a shadow of an Empyrean too, in this case Miquella. I didn't mean Vargram is Miquella's shadow i meant us.
So, if Torrent is Miquella, and Miquella is Melina, it make sense Torrent is with us 100% of the time calling him by a whistle, since Melina is with us too, except by the time we arrive to Leyndell Royal Capital...
Kelpies are known for tricking humans to ride on their back and then leads them to the water, and drowns them once their submerged. Maybe Miquella is the villain and is leading us to the shadow lands to kill us. Wild theory but I like it
Miquella is the secret consort to Messmer When Messmer was cast out and sent to the shadow realm, mohg was released by Marika purposefully to come in to try and take miquella for himself, but miquella was way ahead and is actually using mohg to get back to Messmer 5d chess
While watching a friend play Elden Ring shortly after it came out I was told that Torrent was once a person. I only just started playing like a year ago and legit thought this was cannon 😂
I mean St. Trina is a flower person eerily close to a Miranda flower when we first encounter her. But most likely, Torrent is among the ones hanging in the Shadow Keep with two of the Hornsent kings/giants.
Honestly i spent more time than i want to admit comparing the official art of Marika / Miquella and even the statues. The conclusion is no this is not Marika, it's certainly Miquella. You can check the haligtree statues and compare it to this art.
That seems more obvious to you than the blatant patterned common denominator between shadows being a blade? Marika's shadow-Maliketh the black BLADE Ranni's shadow-The half-wolf BLAIDD Miq's shadow=Malenia BLADE of Miquella
Isnt it was said that Shadows were given to empyreans by the two fingers ? I hope two fingers are in the shadow lands and it can explains how this process occurs
Great video. If we are Miquella's shadow, as Guts is to Griffith in Berserk, will Miquella then attempt to sacrifice us in the lands of shadow to achieve his ascension to godhood like we see Marika do in the DLC story trailer?
As usual great vid. I always wondered why Torrent 'had our measure' lol. Off topic random question, do you have any theories why Seluvius wanted Nepheli as a puppet? I can't connect anything to it. Drives me nuts.
My head canon is that he is just a pervert lol, but after reading your comment and giving it some thought i think you may be into something. He may had some kind of a plan after all.
He wanted her for the same reason he wanted other puppets like Selina: she was a powerful fighter. Now what his motive for amassing an army of powerful puppets was, that is the question. To me, it was implied it was something sinister and that he wasn't really loyal to Ranni, so his goal was either something bad to her or he was just using her faction to further his own goal.
Man, half the characters in this game are actually just one person. First Melinda becomes our maiden. But Melinda is also the queen who shattered the Elden Ring. But she's _also_ the Blade of Michael. And according to that other guy's video, Michael is also Melinda (they both start with M). Melinda fights Ragon in Caelid, but then Melinda and Ragon get married and Melinda gives him the scarlet rot, but also Ragon _is_ Melinda. Elden Ring lore is so confusing. I'm also still not sure how Godrick comes back to life after the Night of Black Knives, or why he doesn't have his grafting when we fight right before Ragon.
And before anyone asks, the first time I read Lord of the Rings as a kid, I didn't realize Sauron and Saruman were different people. Not sure why fantasy authors keep giving completely different characters very similar names. It's not that bad in a movie or video game format where you actually get to see the characters and can see that they're visually distinct (unless they're not), but it's so much worse when it's in a book format and it's just words on a page.
Love it. Don't even care about the evidence. Miquella is Torrent. But i will not have this Torrent is a Horse revisionism. Torrent is a goat, and is the goat. Goat Goat.
The player is Miquella. Torrent recognizes its former master just fine every single time one of us spawns into the game. Miquella divested of his flesh, his fate, and his soul. His flesh is in the cocoon His fate was St Trina (who disappeared as fast and mysterious as she appeared) His soul went to the tarnished. And that’s when you and I spawn into the game. GG
Theory time; What if Marika had sex with Mohg,(her son) boring Melania and Miquella? That’s why Mohg(Wyn) is so determined to help him grow and attain adulthood. Also it may be old news but I’ve just figured out that Radagon is an anagram of “A Dragon”. And yeh maybe Marika had sex with a dragon and out popped Mesmer 🤔 🐉 Thoughts? Or back to the drawing board 😅
Kelpies are also in berserk, which obviously Miyazaki takes a lot of inspiration from. This could hold water!
Wow how did i miss that, i will pin your comment.
Great job mentioning that.
Clever pun
lmao nope
Miquella is the theories we made along the way
Gaaah, beat me to it
Wasn’t expecting the shout out to my video! This is awesome. Once you pointed out that Trina and Torrent start with the same letter I was convinced
Timmy! I see you everywhere from here, to Ziostorm videos to Quelaag videos, a true lore hunter ✌️
You totally deserve it my friend, looking forward for your next video ❤️
The letters gave them up, fromsoft didn't think we would notice.
We did 😌
Radagon is Marika ❌
Melina is Gloam Eyed Queen ❌
Miquella is Torrent ✅
So we've been riding Miquella this whole time? Lol get rekt Mohg.
💀
Mohglester gets NTR'd by the tarnished 🤣
LMFAO
no wonder why Mohg calls us an honored guest. lmfao
Bruh….😂💀
I love how in lore Miquella has the ability to bewitch people and the whole ER community has in fact become bewitched by Miquella.
At this point, Miquella is everyone.
Everyone knows Miquella is none of those he is said to be by any youtuber. Miquella is clearly Alexander the Warrior Jar 🍯
Someone did leave a comment on one of my videos that suggest Miquella is Ranni, Melina and the gloam eyed queen as far as i can remember.
So yeah Miquella is practically everyone at this point lol, but no we are just having fun here.
@@G4meplus I can see! It's so funny and engaging to talk about any crazy totally out of touch theory anyone could think of, because the good theories always have big videos and discussions, and it's easy to forget that also having fun woth the lore is important
Miquella is Dr. W.D. Gaster CONFIRMED!!!!!?
Miquella is obviously Boc the Tailor
If Torrent isn't Miquella, they're definitely connected on a much deeper level than simply a boy and his horse. This is an excellent theory, thanks for sharing!
I've been riding Miquella this whole time ?
Well, sort of.
Hahaha I'm dying lol
Bro 💀
whos the femboy now
like a boss
i giggled hard at the title and thumbnail can't wait to see what you cooked up this time
That's awesome to hear lol, exactly what i wanted ❤️
The player being the Shadow of Miquella would actually fit really really well. Less missing pieces of the puzzle and all that. Only thing missing would be who Malenia's Shadow is (unless maybe Finlay? But that would be another non wolf so idk)
Yea like I radagon and Marika
The player character is Miquella or a mimic at least
Torrent recognizes the soul of his master
I think he has Miquella is the player character as his last vid
@@Chessheromusicbut how? The character we create and wake up as isnt a little kid
@@BRONCOS997 the player is miquella after he successfully removes himself from his cursed body and transfers his soul to a tarnished of no renown to put the world in the order he sees fit.
I think you nailed it with Miquella being the voice that tells us to touch the withered arm and about him being Torrent. It’s exactly the kind of “you’ve gotta be kidding me” gotcha moment both Miyazaki and George RR Martin love.
It’s almost like miquella is manipulating reality and taking the form of multiple npc’s to help guide us to fulfill his objective.
The "Miquellen Ring" you gotta become "Miquellen Lord"
Also, you guys realize that those cutscene clips you’re seeing of Messmer and Miquella are most assuredly from boss fights right? These games don’t tend to have cut scenes at all except for the opening of a path, changing of circumstance (the eclipse, the erdtree burning, the nightmare progressing), or a boss fight. That scene of Miquella at the end of the trailer definitely gives vibes of him being made whole and about to give a monologue before he teleports all over the place and sends you to the shadow realm with a rain of golden light
If we are working for Miquella all along, that's a cool twist. I just wish he had let his sister know and save me 2 hours.
He’s definitely had an influence on the Tarnished
All of the speculation and mystery around Miquella reminds me of Velka from Dark Souls.
True and hopefully there will be some kind of a plot twist in the DLC.
here's another idea for research - have you noticed that some stakes of Marika are different - some are "crucified" and some with arms open but much lower in an about to hug you kind of pose - and the hug ones are mostly found in Nocron and cant remember where else. Another odd thing no video has ever mentioned is the gargole like statues that spit fire in deep root depth. Odd things with female face that looks almost like Merica with long-ish hair and weird gargoyle like bodies ?
The churches with her crucified are built after the shattering?
the hugs remind me of Fia, but there is a being on the briar greatshield that is doing a twisty dance producing flames and flowers, with an undead reaching its arms out like its going to hug her and embrace the flames. The wear and tear on the shield looks a bit like ash falling from the undead and feeding the flowers like ash blossoms. This being is from a foreign land of solitary ascetics, something a solitary ascetic would do, is flail their own back, or crucify themselves for commiting a sin. The rest of the briar set shows some demon lady crucified to something, wrapped in thorny wires which is a symbol of the guilty. Guilty in the land they are in but maybe not where they are from. My hypothesis is that its the gloam eyed queen, now demonized for her culture she brought over. I think Iv'e seen some of those statues with their head and hands cut off like someone defiled the image.
The gargoyles imo, symbolize the joining of a 2 or more beings into one, while trying to match the sheer power of dragons. Godwyns body is also a bit of a gargoyle of different things, like basilisk, some human, and some aquatic life? Idk if i'll ever know what it means for the story, but it seems like a put together monster theme is in play. The dragonkin soldier is another such abomination made of different parts. The fire breathing part is a bit of a mystery, the other gargoyles don't do it but some spit poison. Perhaps since their bodies are breaking down, the poison or something flammable is creating the fire breathing. I could be wrong, but I think most poisonous natural enemies freak out on fire. The mirandas for sure do. But maybe they are built different then the others, its said that the forces of the erdtree did not use fire, untill the war raged for too long. Perhaps the same time perfumers were allowed to use fire perfumes, gargoyles were built with fire spitting to help in the war
@@williamsaling9648does make sense but then why were most of the churches built after the shattering, wouldnt it make more sense that churches were built in the good old days before the shattering. I need to run through maps again to check but as far as I remember the hug ones are mostly in Nocron - its been a long time though so i gotta recheck
Idk its a fun theory but i personally think Miquella IS or was the guy in the cocoon and that hes still alive in spirit form (like ranni or melina).
At the beginning of the mogh fight he addresses Miquella saying something like "youll have to abide alone for awhile" it seems like mogh and Miquella are cool with eachother and that mogh communes with Miquella in the realm of shadow.
There are too many inconsistencies for me to believe that either torrent or melina are Miquella. Hair color seems very important for some reason to the lore, and Miquella is 100% blonde its like one of the only things we really know about him. Also Miquella has the "terrifying" power to compel love and loyalty (which i do not believe either candidates display)
Also Miquella would probably have something to say to us as we roam the haligtree and face Melania, and melina seems to share no such sentiments (and before yall say anything yes you can get to the haligtree before melina cooks herself)
Also, with lore as deep as elden ring's i wouldnt expect that our trusty steed torrent would be the creator of the haligtree. That would be pretty dumb i think, or there better be a damn good explanation for it if that is the case.
The fact that we kill Malenia has me really interested in what meeting Miquella will be like, so much so that I'm keeping her alive on another file to see if something happens
@@abigcupofwaterdamn that is true i never thought of it like that
Really enjoy your content. I know there are a lot of topics to cover especially with DLC coming soon, but there’s one topic in particular that I haven’t really seen anyone expand on…
Centipedes... Do you know much of mythology involving centipedes, why the golden centipede is referred to as a “fetish”, and why it is used as symbol of deathmark and eclipse?
These questions have been nagging at me for a long time 😅
if I had to guess, I would bet it has something to do with Asian mythology. Centipedes aren't very mythological important in the west, but in the east there is a lot of mythology around them (they are associated with the concepts of death, rot, and Gu (extreme magic poison with supernatural properties), especially in Japan.
i am also interested in that topic, i will dig into it.
Awesome theory! One of the more unique and honestly super logical ones I’ve heard in a long time. I have no real meaningful critiques that I could even make about it. Can’t wait to see if the DLC proves this to be true. Great work!!
This was a very fun video to make outside of our usual, hope you have fun watching it ❤
I got a question for my awesome veteran audience: i changed the audio setup a bit, what do you think ? Is it better or should i revert back ?.
I think the new setup sounds better, love your videos keep up the good work big dawg
You've earned my sub for sure, I like far fetched theories yet this one seems possible. Being his shadow is an awesome angle.
Nice theory, seems plausible. Now if you're right and Melina and Miquela are therefor working together could Melina be a part/spirit of Malenia? Millicent and her sisters show that this is possible and the fake name is on the same level as renna for ranni. Melina says that her mother gave her her purpose - what if she told malenia to protect her brother and to assist him in starting his new age. It would even fit in with Melina beeing St. Trina with Melina providing the adult corporial form and Miquella doing the sleep magic in secret to disguise his identity. Splitting Malenia into pieces or even Burning her flesh could have been part of Miquelas attemps to cure her or to preserve some of her original form.
That's quite interesting, i actually did a video talking about how Melina is part of someone but it was Marika not Malenia.
So we are on the same track here but different conclusion.
Yuh know I bet the fact that white mask varre killed your characters maiden for miquella essentially because miquella is running the entire show. Your maiden had to be killed so miquella could be part of your journey long story short.
Trina = Torrent = Thops
Thops discarded his flesh to birth his barrier and now awaits for us in the Shadow Lands
This isn't as crazy as you make it sound in the beginning! Very nice and concise video! Looking forward to your other lore videos
The theory the raging wolf armor is badass. Makes the set even better
This theory as crazy as it sounds is amazing, the connection with the T-orrent and T-ryna is really interesting, and the raging wolf connection blow me away, now if torrent doesn’t transform into miquilla before or when we touch the arm I’ll be disappointed😂😂
The other interesting thing is where you can and can't go on Torrent. You can not ride him at the Haligtree. You can not ride him trying to get Frenzied Flame, nor out of time at Farum - the places Miquella wouldnt not want to go. Also, the only boss fight of Miquellas family you can use him in, is Radahn (i know this is down to arena). But also, this is the only one you need to kill to fulfill Rannis questline and Ranni/Miquella know this, pljs the only one driven mad and wouldnt recognise Miquella, where as the others surely would realise
Honestly makes the most sense out of all the wild theories being thrown around rn
The land of shadows is the land of dreams; Miyazaki when asked where it takes place in the timeline he said something vague like yes & no. Being a land of dream fits this description, It being between both the world of the living & dead, existing alongside the current timeline as well as not. This is explains why the drapes over the Tree are the drapes of marikas bed; This also connects to St Trina.
haters will say he’s wrong
He's not wrong. Your wrong! Jk jk
actually torrent isnt miquella, because in the end of frenzy ending, if melina was alive, she'd call the ring by torrent, and not miquella in the final moments, unless melina doesn't know who torrent is based on this theory which would be strange.
what if YOU are Miquella. not like Miquella himself, but more like his soul is in your body. think about it. the other Tarnished still remember who they are, but you? you dont know shit. its like you lost your memories or something, but why? waht if Miquella, stripping himself of all his power and memories, transfer his soul into a body of a no name Tarnish without renoun, in order to return to the Land Between, to take his place as Elden Lord...that would be an amazing plan, befit the name of the most fearsome empyrean. this also explain why Torren chose you, he reconized his master
Very interesting take.
Radahn is Leonard
The most compelling pieces of information to support this theory is the Raging Wolf Set and the Nascent Butterfly found at the beginning because these most likely point to the tarnished as Miquella's chosen shadow. The keyword here is chosen, and who chose us? Torrent. Furthermore, the most compelling evidence that Melina is not Miquella is that Miyazaki admitted that main game NPCs won't appear in the DLC due to inconsistencies in the story if an NPC died, and Melina is in the main game and dies either by the burning of the Erdtree or by the hands of the tarnished in the Frenzied Flame ending. I do think the narrator's voice in the story trailer is the knight that seems to lead Miquella's followers.
I dont think fromsoft ever mentions that the player is wearing the raging wolf set, i think it's just showing the character you get it from. He was probably the first tarnished to get involved with most of the demigods.
There's a phrase so common when you're questioning whether people who appear to be different are actually the same person that it is literally a trope: "Has anyone ever seen Miquella and Torrent in the same room together?"
Yes. Yes they have.
wow this actually kinda makes sense
when i click on this video i thought it was an absurd theory and was getting ready for a good laugh. But you made a compelling argument that has me truly thinking. it's possible!
You sick man? Sounding a bit different. Always look forward to these videos when I get home from work on Tuesdays
yes unfortunately i was sick those past days but i am fine now.
Thanks my friend.
There's no doubt that Miquella and Torrent share some connection but this would be a nice surprise! I like how it explains why "Torrent" is named as such, and your interpretation of why the Tarnished in the trailers wears the Raging Wolf set makes some sense as well.
Post-Shadow of the Erdtree's release, I think this theory may yet hold merit. I still believe there's potentially an interesting reason why Torrent picks our Tarnished at the beginning of the game; perhaps the Spirit Horse holds a part of Miquella who wants to stop his other self from becoming a God, just like St. Trina? Of course, Torrent could be willing and able to achieve this goal without any such extra supernatural reasons. Either way, he could have sensed in us someone who can resist Miquella's charms and would be willing to fight back against his plans, regardless of the reason why.
Perhaps St. Trina sided with Ranni in order to further assist whoever Torrent chose, and is "former master" of Torrent who entrusted the Spirit Calling Bell to Ranni.
am i the only one who really hopes we can marry miquella not in his child form ofc
Why just marry? become miquela like radagon became marika lol. They aren't sure of miquela's gender. So, whatever you chose at the beginning of game, miquela should appear as such.
@@DirectorOfTimethey say multiple times on the game that he’s a boy
@@Schizoman0 what about st. trina then?
@@DirectorOfTime either a case like Marika and Radagon where they are two souls inhabiting one body or it’s just him dressing up in a dress. People in game aren’t even sure if st. Trina is a girl or boy.
About St Trina we dont know much to be shute but for me she looks more like dream adult alter ego than fisical. @@DirectorOfTime
I actually had this theory myself not too long ago.
I think the dlc will reveal that either WE are Miquella, or Torrent is Miquella.
Miquella is torrents master and former owner.
We even see Miquella riding on torrents back in the dlc image that first dropped.
That means in the teaser image we got, miquella was rising himself 😅
11:31 your joke had me laughing, I love your theories man, keep them coming
That's awesome to hear, thought it would be silly 😂
Mohg rolling in his grave rn
to complete the miquella`s ascension to godhood marika had to sacrifice godwyn`s spirit and keep his body to use as a vessel for miquella`s spirit. so by planning the the night of black knifes and follow by it the events of war of shattering when both carians and the golden order and other factions busy fighting each other she give him time to complete the ritual but as we all know the plan goes wrong, malenia couldn't defeat radahn to make eclipse happening , mohg stole the cocoon and breaks it,the haligtree stops growing and worst of them all godwyn`s body starts changing its shape and spread the deathroot. now maybe miquella`s plan B is to helping us to collect great runes and be stronger to use our us as a vessel for himself?
I def think that Melina is rannis body and all things tied to the golden order, that’s why she doesn’t know things in the beginning because she split herself to break away from the order
What if the player is Miquella/Miquella's new avatar/body and torrent is choosing his master... while melina is miquella's spirit looking to reunite with her chosen body, which only torrent can detect due to her being a spirit that can only cause sleep...
This has gone on far enough...
It's time to come clean...
I am Miquella...
Chris Hansen: “Take a seat filthy Tarnished, you’ve been riding Miquella for 100 hours”
My theory is that Miquella's plan is to fuse with Messmer to become a god of the Shadow plane (the soul realm). In Alchemy and Hermeticism it's worth looking into the Alchemical Wedding.
Miquella and Messmer are 2 sides of the same coin. Like Marika and Radagon. I believe Marika and Radagon were once separate and she ascended her qualities that made her the other half of Radagon. I believe they fused in the same principal of the Alchemical Wedding.
I think each Empyrean has a plane they must belong on. There are 3 general planes of existence: the physical, the astral / mind, and the soul.
I believe each Empyrean aligns wirh this;
Malenia being the physical plane where she is a swordswoman who's main deal is decay, rot and rebirth.
Ranni being the Astral / mind / psychic.
And Miquella being of the soul.
Based on this I believe the butterflies represent each Empyrean.
Since we're on the Lands Between I believe we are on the Astral (Ranni's) plane. I think Miquella knew this and that's why he never chose to fight Ranni because he knew it was her plane to begin with.
The Astral plane is the 2nd stage in the cycle: Physical > Astral > Soul, so it would make sense it would be the Lands Between.
I think Ranni and Miquella (maybe Malenia too) all conspired in the Night of the black knives.
My theory beforehand is that Marika made it impossible for the Empyreans to leave to their respective planes because she didn't want to lose any children and broke the cycle.
I believe across the other planes there will be respective "other half" Empyreans for both Ranni and Malenia too.
- I have a dew more ideas that seem to go with these theories and make sense.
Between looking at Jungian Psychology, Hermeticism, Alcehmy, Tarot, Kyballah and the Rosicrucians, there are some real similarities.
What a coincidence that I've stumbled upon this, considering I already had the idea of having Torrent be Miquella in my head-story/canon, and this inspired me to go for it!
A non-cursed and adult shield warrior of celestial lightning Miquella who can turn into a kelpy some call "Torrent", the prince of the Haligtree and who is married to my character who is a warrior himself of celtic origins and a ghostflame/spirit water bender! XD
I thought of a kirin previously, but now I kinda like the idea of him turning into a kelpy more!
Suffice it to write, Miquella doesn't get kidnapped in my story, as it wouldn't make sense, Miquella can take care of himself, and Radagon and Marika are siblings because I found that whole "clone and knock himself up" thing really silly!
Miquella was lucky to have been born healthy, considering his parents were siblings, but Malenia wasn't so lucky.
So tempting to really get into creating this personal story! XD
One thing about Elden Ring's poor and almost-nonexistent storytelling, it inspired the imagination!
Miquella turning out to have done some Aizen-level planning
The tittle alone made me laugh so much, such a great video omg lmao
I really like this outlandish and uncompromised theories. As for Vargram being Miquellas shadow, I think it's cool, but when we invade him, he uses the Godslayer Greatsword, kinda linking him to the Gloam Eyed Queen.
But now we know that Melina is the GEQ, Miquella, and Torrent, so it all makes sense :P
Thanks my friend, there is a little misunderstanding tho.
I meant that us being shown wearing that armor in particular may hint that we are a shadow of an Empyrean too, in this case Miquella.
I didn't mean Vargram is Miquella's shadow i meant us.
@@G4meplus aaaaaah I see, I see. My bad man. Makes total sense!
If Messmer is in the cocoon, then you must ask: where exactly is Miquella?
The safest place to hide: In plain sight.
I'm so convinced now, lets gooooo
So, if Torrent is Miquella, and Miquella is Melina, it make sense Torrent is with us 100% of the time calling him by a whistle, since Melina is with us too, except by the time we arrive to Leyndell Royal Capital...
We argued for months, who was riding torrent in the initial poster.
I guess joke's on us because no was. It's just mequella on himself
Melina might have used mind control this one will seek the ring.
The npc that tells you to touch the arm is miquella 🐣, naomi mc donal was the official voice actress for him and well, thats her voice
Miquella is the Tarnished, the most mysterious character with not background at all besides the fact it's supposedly a tarnished.
Kelpies are known for tricking humans to ride on their back and then leads them to the water, and drowns them once their submerged. Maybe Miquella is the villain and is leading us to the shadow lands to kill us. Wild theory but I like it
Melina is Torrent 🤯
Miquella is the secret consort to Messmer
When Messmer was cast out and sent to the shadow realm, mohg was released by Marika purposefully to come in to try and take miquella for himself, but miquella was way ahead and is actually using mohg to get back to Messmer
5d chess
Melina is Messmer
While watching a friend play Elden Ring shortly after it came out I was told that Torrent was once a person. I only just started playing like a year ago and legit thought this was cannon 😂
I mean St. Trina is a flower person eerily close to a Miranda flower when we first encounter her. But most likely, Torrent is among the ones hanging in the Shadow Keep with two of the Hornsent kings/giants.
This is actually very convincing
Very very compelling theory good job sir.
I think the person riding Torrent in the DLC concept art might be a young Marika, pre-ascension perhaps.
can't be. if miquela is born from queen(marika) and radagon's union. then it can't be pre-ascension.
Honestly i spent more time than i want to admit comparing the official art of Marika / Miquella and even the statues.
The conclusion is no this is not Marika, it's certainly Miquella. You can check the haligtree statues and compare it to this art.
Next theory: Miquella is Elden Ring.
Or better Miquella is Lands Between.
You know how Empyreans get shadows, or “half-brothers?” So, like… Torrent is Miquella’s shadow. Seems obvious to me, at least
That seems more obvious to you than the blatant patterned common denominator between shadows being a blade?
Marika's shadow-Maliketh the black BLADE
Ranni's shadow-The half-wolf BLAIDD
Miq's shadow=Malenia BLADE of Miquella
Isnt it was said that Shadows were given to empyreans by the two fingers ? I hope two fingers are in the shadow lands and it can explains how this process occurs
@@GhostWriter-Gohan Melania ain’t a shadow, she’s confirmed to be an empyrean herself. But good point
At first it was where is Miquella, now it's who is Miquella... i'll do one better : why is Miquella 🤲🏽🙄
Great video. If we are Miquella's shadow, as Guts is to Griffith in Berserk, will Miquella then attempt to sacrifice us in the lands of shadow to achieve his ascension to godhood like we see Marika do in the DLC story trailer?
Honestly this could be the big twist. Would be cool
As usual great vid. I always wondered why Torrent 'had our measure' lol.
Off topic random question, do you have any theories why Seluvius wanted Nepheli as a puppet? I can't connect anything to it. Drives me nuts.
My head canon is that he is just a pervert lol, but after reading your comment and giving it some thought i think you may be into something.
He may had some kind of a plan after all.
He wanted her for the same reason he wanted other puppets like Selina: she was a powerful fighter. Now what his motive for amassing an army of powerful puppets was, that is the question. To me, it was implied it was something sinister and that he wasn't really loyal to Ranni, so his goal was either something bad to her or he was just using her faction to further his own goal.
I am actually convinced by this.
So much fun! Thx for sharing!!
Man, half the characters in this game are actually just one person.
First Melinda becomes our maiden. But Melinda is also the queen who shattered the Elden Ring. But she's _also_ the Blade of Michael. And according to that other guy's video, Michael is also Melinda (they both start with M). Melinda fights Ragon in Caelid, but then Melinda and Ragon get married and Melinda gives him the scarlet rot, but also Ragon _is_ Melinda.
Elden Ring lore is so confusing. I'm also still not sure how Godrick comes back to life after the Night of Black Knives, or why he doesn't have his grafting when we fight right before Ragon.
And before anyone asks, the first time I read Lord of the Rings as a kid, I didn't realize Sauron and Saruman were different people. Not sure why fantasy authors keep giving completely different characters very similar names. It's not that bad in a movie or video game format where you actually get to see the characters and can see that they're visually distinct (unless they're not), but it's so much worse when it's in a book format and it's just words on a page.
I really liked this theory 👌
Thank you ❤️
Love it. Don't even care about the evidence. Miquella is Torrent. But i will not have this Torrent is a Horse revisionism. Torrent is a goat, and is the goat. Goat Goat.
I just said the other day to myself… “are miquella and Melina and torrent all the same entity?”
Man this is sooo good lesss gooo bro
Can Torrent be found at the Haligtree since that is Miquella’s home right? He grew the Haligtree. Their should be architectural hints
So the new DLC will be Miquella complaining about how fat i am?
GAME OF THE YEAR
Fuck it, Miquella is Glaive Knight Hodir
I don't think the Melina is Miquella theory is weak or invalid due to anything said in this video. And I think this video has great points.
All those times I let torrent die and never fed him once…whoop. But at this point we’re going to be saying “GODWYNS LEFT TOE IS MIQUELLA”
Great content as always!
Okay, I watched the whole video, and I don't know if you ever explained: Miquella is riding himself in the DLC picture?
Yes, Well Done! Great video and the theory is yours, if you can keep it.
Miquella could be you, he could be me, he could even be-
I hope we get a torrent boss fight,imagine that. Especially if this theory is true, phase1 torrent,phase 2+ miquela.
The player is Miquella. Torrent recognizes its former master just fine every single time one of us spawns into the game.
Miquella divested of his flesh, his fate, and his soul.
His flesh is in the cocoon
His fate was St Trina (who disappeared as fast and mysterious as she appeared)
His soul went to the tarnished. And that’s when you and I spawn into the game.
GG
My dlc bingo card gonna be so crazy
Theory time;
What if Marika had sex with Mohg,(her son) boring Melania and Miquella?
That’s why Mohg(Wyn) is so determined to help him grow and attain adulthood.
Also it may be old news but I’ve just figured out that Radagon is an anagram of “A Dragon”.
And yeh maybe Marika had sex with a dragon and out popped Mesmer 🤔 🐉
Thoughts? Or back to the drawing board 😅
If you were the shadow of Miquella. Wouldn't you have been driven mad from Miquella not following the greater wills plans?
Wait what???.......that kinda makes sense
"Touch the Wizard arm!"
The DLC will take place in Hogwarts i guess.
Vaush : yeaah I love a horse boy