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Perhaps the curse of grafting also affects the Deathroot, diminishing it, weakening it, merely infecting his army and castle with a living state of decomposition, rather than turning them into those who live in death.
Video fucking sucks, i know you were trying to have a vibe for you video but................ ..... ........ ..... ......... ...... ....... ... you take too long to string another word
While most of Elden Ring's music is pretty somber and dark, I always felt curious about how Stormveil's music feels like it's a prelude to something very bad about to happen. Like we are really not supposed to be here. It has this foreboding element to it that Godrick isn't the main threat of the castle, and we ought to not hang around too long, less the real danger unfolds.
I agree with the question posed, why are the stormveil pock marks so different from every deathroot-related landmarks? Strange how the stormveil artifact behaves so differently.
The name itself, "Stormveil", could suggest there's something 'veiled' behind it. FromSoft is usually very deliberate in their usage of specific words so I always thought there was more to the castle than we currently know.
I remember going through that area on release day, or perhaps the day after, and noticing that I was losing souls even when went to pick them up. Thought it was a bug or that I was losing my mind until someone mentioned it was that lanky wank stain.
In vers 1.00 the Exile guard helms and armor directly speak about the curse and the need to keep one's face and body covered, lest exposure lead to infection.
@@ZayftheScholar If you didn't know there is a post on the ER subreddit titled 'spreadsheet of all item description changes'. It is a google doc comparing all items descriptions from 1.0 to current patch.
I think the fact that you can find the Godskin Prayerbook and the Godslayer’s Seal in Stormveil Castle further reinforces this theory. Perhaps grafting Demigods is a different/more difficult process than grafting Tarnished, and the book and seal were there for Godrick to study how the Godskins graft the skin of Gods/Demigods to their own? That would open up a whole new can of worms as to how he’d even get his many, many hands on such a thing. Did he know a Godskin personally? Were the Prayerbook & Seal some of the treasures he took when fleeing the Capital? (in which case what were Godskin-related relics even doing there?) If the book was studied by Godrick, why doesn’t he use any Black Flame when we fight him? Was he unable to master it? I’d be very surprised if it wasn’t his, because there’s no one else in Stormveil Castle who would have any use for it. Another thing tying them together, is the fact that Godskins and Dragons seem to have something to do with one another, particularly in Farum Azula with the mummified Dragon Head in the Godskin Duo Boss Room, and the Divine Towers with the Cursemark of Death in Liurnia, and the Dragon Imagery of the Divine Towers, particularly the one in Caelid. Less relevant, but still notable, is the Godskin Noble in Volcano Manor in the Temple of Eiglay. Godrick grafts a Dragon to his arm, calling it “O Kindred” implying some kind of relation? Maybe he knows something we don’t about the Godskins, Dragons, and/or the Golden Lineage…
Fascinating...the presence of a Godskin Noble in Eiglay paints a picture of Godskins traveling out into the world from their headquarters in Farum Azula to influence the direction of culture in the post-Shattering age. A Godskin influenced Rykard, encouraging him to birth Serpentmen. Perhaps a Godskin influenced Godrick, leading him to graft a drake. Who else are Godskins trying to influence?
Yes I think you're right about that. We have evidence of Godskins all over the Lands Between, from Divine Tower of Caelid to Windmill Village and even Iji's death by black flame. The Gloam Eyed Queen's enforcers are widespread and were probably even more so before her defeat to Maliketh when she was an empyrean of the Two Fingers (src: godslayer greatsword, black flame ritual, godskin apostle set). The prayerbook and seal are likely spoils of that victory.
@@DavidStavisGodskins are implied to endorse everyone fighting against the Erdtree, you can find one in Ranni Divine Tower aswell. One being worshipped by the Celebrants at the windmill village, and even Fire Monks who converted to the Black Flame, them being traveling priests inciting people to take down the Golden Order is actually a very solid affirmation.
I would argue that after Marika defeated the gloam eyed queen, she took away a prayerbook and seal, either for study or safekeeping. Godrick calling the dragon "Oh Kindred" might be related to the age of the crucible, in which the dragons ruled suppreme, so him being of the blood of an Elden Lord, and the dragons/lesser dragons being of the blood of a previous Elden Lord might have something to do with it, even though this is a very far stretch, even for me. Im however very sure, that it has something to do with the dragons having ruled the lands between before, and him being of the ruling class now.
I had a similar theory to this. Mine was that Godrick got his Great Rune from grafting a peice of Godwyn to his body which spread the deathblight throughout the castle.
@@markop.1994 I had also speculated that he isn't even a proper child of Marika and that he became one through his grafting of Godwyn's body. This would explain how we have Godefory. They are so similiar because they are simply just commoners that grafted themselves to the Golden Lineage.
I dont agree with this only because he has a chair like the rest of the demigods . He made a name for himself like Marika ordered all of her children . I doubt Marika would allowed him to have a seat if he was unrelated and especially if he grafted Godwyn. The person's death that sent her off the deep end .@@hex_gekko29568
Godwyn is never actually tied to anything golden. Besides his blond hair. But he is never specific called godwyn the golden or anything near that. It's a misconception people have about him. We are never actually told who his father is.@@markop.1994
@@hex_gekko29568 He technically is a child of Marika, but his blood is heavily diluted. Even the demigods of Rennala and Radagon are called of Marikas blood, but that can be argued away with "Radagon is Marika", or alternatively, that they were accepted into the family of her, after Radagon remarried.
It is a cool parallel, that Godrick can only graft other limbs to him, while Godwyn's corpse (a part of it) can graft with the castle itself. Apart form the story implications, really shows how far Godrick is from what he aspires to be. Godwyn seemed to have commanded respect, which is why you see he still has influence, while Godrick's influence does not extend his strength. Even his other castles have fallen. Also there could be something to say about how Godwyn's hollow corpse spawned a cult, yet he has no agency in it because he's dead. The image of a saint being used for ulterior motives after their death, for good or ill.
I love the idea of a stolen relic being the cause. Honestly this makes me imagine a narrative of Godrick trying to use a piece of Godwyn for grafting, to boost his royal claim, but for one reason or another it fails-- maybe every piece of Godwyn's flesh carries the deathroot affliction. Godrick, impulsive and angry, tosses the relic down into the depths where it starts growing into the face of Godwyn and starts infecting the castle. There's scraps of fabric around the scene which suggest there were attempts to cover it up, to no avail.
one of the old trailers shows probably Godrick grafting a demigod like hand. Assuming he failed (like he does) he probably threw it into the edpth of the castle and there it grew. A whole hand of Godwyn probably could form the eyeless body in the depth...
Perhaps the curse of grafting also affects the Deathroot, diminishing it, weakening it, merely infecting his army and castle with a living state of decomposition, rather than turning them into those who live in death.
So I don't know how often this is talked about, but this all may be taken from nature. When you graft trees into each other you are likely to get what is called a rootstock, which grows thorns (how you can identify it). The rootstock needs to be well managed and often cut off early if you want to have any good fruit otherwise it will take over the tree until it's a tasteless abomination instead of what you grafted it to produce. In fact, it can suffocate the tree completely until it's nothing but rootstock. Part of the other reason I believe this is the case is the golden scions are also a part of tree grafting since they are named after branches that could grow on rootstock, and if done right, produce its own fruit. Basically, it's a castle of mismanaged affairs. Godrick is trying to capitalize on the suffocation of his castle and ignore the, ahem, root problem. This also goes with the root beast mentioned earlier since it is "root"stock that is the source of suffocation. It makes sense it if personafied in a twisting wild natural beast that crushes you in a tiny space, as if trying to suffocate you as well as the castle. On a different topic, the concept continues to follow outside of stormveil. In honest, from that aspect, a lot of "root" troubles come from things I deal in my garden. You typically find death root in water in game, for instance, flooding with mariners, and I don't think that's a coincidence since root rot is the number one plant killer. Much like Godwyn's state, it's a slow half death where the plant is fighting to live but even if you get to it you may not get to it in time and it just rots itself out from over watering or being in a pot that's too big for it so the soil never dries. If you leave it there, the remains of the plant stays there, a blackened version of when it was fully alive. I'm gonna stop before I get to potting, jar people, and jar burials weeeee. But yes. Point being, it shocks me how few videos look at the gardening aspect to trees to use as a lens for lore. Miyazaki did his research, not just in ancient cultures and religions, but in nature itself as well. Tldr: IRL tree grafting explains a lot of things in Elden Ring, and so does gardening in general
Adding note that I am an indoor herb gardener primarily and live in a desert so I don't graft trees personally, so my description may not be put in the most accurate wording. However, more grafting info is only a Google away and that includes various other grafting failures like bacterial cankers and other tree related diseases that appear in the game (like mushroom men in caves being related to Honey Fungus for example).
Hey, just gonna comment and like so others see this. Not only was this educational, it had the cogs in my brain move in a way that makes me like Elden Ring lore more.
Jar people should have been called "the rootbound" hell yeah. I agree that in a game about a giant freaking tree people tend to ignore the whole dendrology aspect!
May i ask what the benefit of grafting is, does the plant get stronger roots if it works or can it change the taste of fruits? Very interesting info btw
Considering that godrick’s soldiers are nowhere to be seen but droves of spurned knights and soldiers from a faraway land are, and given the amount of thorns on both them and the holes in the wall, I always assumed that Godrick was a hostage in his own castle but was too mad to ever notice
Well another thing to note as well is thorns aren't only found on them, but also the prisoners who discovered the blood sorcerers. It's a mark of punishment, which fits the curse theme.
@@SallinKarihence why the soldiers in stormveil are called “exiled soldiers” they were exiled cuz they were criminals like the thorn sorcerers in the fire monk cult.
Very well thought out. I always wondered why that creepy-ass face was down there in the depths of the castle. Your theory makes a lot of sense that Godrick probably smuggled out a piece of Godwyn from Leyndell when he was exiled.
@@qualiswilliams7403 I've my doubts on that. The previous ruler of Stormveil fell in battle against Godfrey, which probably took place some time before the war against the Fire Giants, before Godfrey & the Tarnished were banished to their Long March, and even longer before the Night of Black Knives. Even if interacting with Those Who Live in Death was considered sacrilegious, Godrick likely cared more so about acquiring relics pertaining to the Golden Lineage as he made his escape from Leyndell. The castle itself, a trophy of Godfrey's victories, would have passed down throughout the generations, and its depths offered the perfect hiding spot for something as dangerous as a piece of the Death Prince. Imagine him grafting something as revoltingly powerful as that Deathroot husk onto himself; it could kill him on the spot, or it could make him into something much worse.
@@jefftheindianchief8279 id imagine if it was actually Godwin we'd see some signs of death...no demigod in the era of the golden order had been killed but we see there's a finger slayer blade and destined death use to be held by someone other than maliketh. Any history before the golden order is somewhat speculative because the order of events is out of sorts before the war that led to marika being the elden consort...I'm not saying it is the old lord I'm just not sure about godwyn either because there's no deathroot or anything that lives in death near or around it
@@jefftheindianchief8279Uh, not quite. While there's a mention that Godfrey faced the Stormlord on his own, there's no mention of the Stormlord actually being slain. One theory goes that Placidusax is the Stormlord, having fled after his battle with Godfrey to the eye of the 'storm outside time'. Likewise we don't know the ultimate fate of the warrior who forged the Grafted Blade Greatsword, despite the implication that he was slain as well.
I knew about the thorns all over the castle, but I always just assumed the holes were from some old battle, like how you can see craters all over the ground in front of Leyndell. When you really think about it though they show up in some impossible places, like on the sides of a sheer cliff bordering the ocean
Dragon or Gargoyle attack? Quite a few flying creatures to pick from, and the holes which punch right through a wall have a matching crater on the next wall in. The initial damage is most definitely from an attack on the castle. Looking at spells like Comet Azure since the holes are in a straight line. So are the craters a weakness in the castle, which allows the thorns to take root (like an infected wound), or is it Godwyn's presence in the walls creating some kind of "healing" effect (like scar tissue).
the holes are bulging outward meaning if they come from being blown through a wall, it was a blast coming from the inside aimed at outside, which then still doesnt explain the thorns or the discolorations. alternative theory: thorns are mentioned to be connected to "the mother of truths" mentioned on the great stars / flame worshipper items so it could be connected to that. @@phoephoe795
In this line of thinking, the weapons used could be explosive or fiery in nature, with the blackened and scarred substance left in the craters being melted material such as slag, or perhaps residue left over from whatever alchemical or magical reaction was used? Perhaps it was discovered that Godrick had stolen valuable items upon his exile, such as a Godskin, and Leyendell sent forces in an attempt to siege and reclaim their stolen property? Hell, it could even be that the malignancy festering upon the Castle is a direct result of their siege?
I also assumed it was caused by siege weapons, infused with some curse or enchantment that made the thorns grow-like how ivy damages walls, but sped up to weaponize.
The gashes and holes within the western wall are somehow caused by the storm winds imo. This is also why the exile soldiers cover their body with a red cloth. I wrote a theory on this last year. Basically it's that the storm winds are cursed by the spirits of the tarnished that have been grafted within the castle. Nepheli mentions how "the winds run foul with his(Godricks's) deeds" or "he's tainted the very winds". And Roderika mentions the suffering of the spirits that have been grafted.
This makes sense with Deathblight's own manifestations. If we take in consideration the location of every deathroot we find, we discover they are always linked to a place of death either by being a graveyeard or a battlefield of some sort (places where alot of death occured). So most likely Godrick might have stolen the relic from Leyndel, but due to his grafting caused it to "awaken" in some twisted form. If we also consider that thorns are heavily associated with guilt and sin in Elden Ring (i.e: aberrant sorceries, Staff of the Guilty, Guilty Hood) then it could be that the stolen relic mutated with Godrick's sins of grafting causing this fucked up infection around the castle different from the standard Godwyn Manifestation. So the winds carry the infected sin throughout the castle which is why outside looks more fucked up then the inside, but if interacting deeply with the relic (like Rogier did) then you become actually deathblighted.
@@LucacielOfMirrah Yeah, I l like the theory. When I wrote my theory for some reason I completely pushed the idea of Godwyns influence on the "curse" aside. But I can definetly see that it could have some influence.
So, I've always felt that Stormveil once belonged to Godwyn, which is why Godrick chose it as his base of operations. With that in mind, the site of the relic is probably where he was slain (the area kinda matches with the art of his death as well), and it's likely that his flesh and blood seeped out until his body was retrieved. As far as the "wounds" in the castle itself, I think it has to do with both Godwyn's death within the castle, and the Godrick's grafting. A lot of killing (and therefore death) goes into grafting, so that much condensed death must have an affect on the relic.
Hmm so you think he was killed in Stormveil and then his remains were interred in Leyndell before they understood what the curse was? How did he get to the Deeproot Depths? Perhaps they tried to feed him to the Erdtree roots in an Erdtree burial and it couldn't pull his soul out and instead just started sucking up deathblight?
@@NewMitchell-wh3fj Can't remember where it says exactly but Godwyn was brought to the Deeproot depths in hopes that burying him along the Erdtree's roots could help his curse. Needless to say, it did not go as planned.
It is pretty explicit Nobk happened in Leyndell and thus godwyn was killed there. Black knife Tiche description mentions black knight assassins fled the royal capital
@@xaitat I don't think it's that clear cut as you make it sound. Yes we know Godwyn was killed that night, and that at least Tiche and her mother were in Leyndell, but the rest is speculation. The Black Knives going to the capital could have been a distraction, and/or a way to kill more demigods beyond Godwyn. We know that Godwyn was the first of the demigods to die, implying that more followed after. Yes, it could just be hinting at Ranni, but her death and part in the whole event seems to be largely kept under wraps. That, and we know that Markia had a lot more children that are not alive by the start of the game.
@@bSoulless000 it's just the most simple intuitive explanation, you'd have no doubt about this if you hadn't thought of godwyn's death being in stormveil before. Occam's razor really, complicating things with decoys and attacks on multiple locations doesn't make much sense
Someone claimed the holes came from Radahn’s gravity magic spells when the castle was besieged, with another claiming the castle is rotting due to the curse of Godwyn. It’s noticeable that many of the holes are partially or completely covered in thorny roots, which maybe lends more credence to the rotting theory 🤷♀️
The holes which go through the walls have a corresponding crater on the next wall in- so something smashed through the first wall and took a chunk out the second. Some kind of magical blast/beam and the thorns grew after?
it first i had always assumed the holes were blasted into the castle walls during a siege fight but yeah idd the holes bulge outward and are covered in thorns, if anything it feels like the castle is having an allergic reaction to the corpse deep below.
The damage in areas beyond some openings suggest there were impacts. I DO think that's seige damage from when the order was forming. I just also think godrick bonded godwyns corpse to stormveil as part of his obsession. Godwyn is "healing" the damage to his castle, the holes are filling themselves in. And godrick gets to keep the object of his obsession very close. My pet theory is that godrick wants to use the blighted curse, spread through grafting (old golden order practice iirc.) Irl, grafting a sick branch to a healthy tree propagates the infection. I think godrick intentionally seeded godwyn there, grafted him into his own castle. He can then graft who/whatever else into it all to build his own power out, and maybe in his mind restore godwyn the last way he knows to. Grafting itself doesn't curse you, unless what You've grafted on is cursed. Would godrick commit heresy against the order to maintain his loyalty to godwyn?
I've always thought there was so much more to Godrick than met the eye. Such a good catch about there being no death root. As you were going through this, the lightbulb went off that he wanted to graft the piece of Godwyn (possibly the pustule?). Godrick's whole thing has been appropriation of his lineage to be someone he isn't, or trying to call back to a nostalgic time of power. I think he adopted the name Godrick, appropriated the very old Stormhill with its legacy of war birds and stormshawks, tried to shortcut his demigod ascension through grafting, tried to bring about a new Golden Lineage through Godwyn's corpse grafting, and finally, tried to ascend yet again through his grafting of dragons, whom he (probably) recognized as the true first Elden Lords. Godrick is an amalgamation of so many powerful things. He could easily have been the most powerful entity in the Lands Between if he had been allowed to ascend for another year or so.
Here are my general thoughts on this... from its appearance alone, the misshapen corpse is implied to have undergone the same ritualistic killing as Godwyn, as for it being deathroot or not, it most definitely is. The tentacles eminating from the corpse itself still have the characteristics of deathrooy, what with the thorns and portruding insect wings, not to mention Rogier becoming afflicted with deathroot after having performed his research there. A little sidenote: in Japanese culture and mythology, something that is deeply symbolic of death is stagnant water. Without the replacement of water through some kind of stream, bodies of water tend to build to large colonies of bacteria which later becomes largely toxic. Stagnant waters are also the favourite breeding ground for pestilent flies who live most of their larval lives underwater until sprouting wings and leaving their murky nursery. It could lead one to assume that the insect wings aren't merely a visual metaphor, but those are *actual* flies being born out of stagnation. Deathroot is sprouted from a living body without a soul, a body living in death, so to speak. But does that mean that deathroot necessitates a "living" host? That could very well be the case. Whether the identity of the whithered corpse being a relic of Godwyn... this would actually make a lot of sense. Godrick is desperate to live up to his heritage. It's absolutely something he would do, and if it *is* a relic of him, it could explain not just the lack of eyes in the sockets, but also its size difference with the "real deal" as well as why the deathroot we see around Stormveil seems.. white and withered. The corpse is no longer alive. Disconnected from its source, it withered and died, as any bodypart would, undoing the birthing cycle of pestinent flies and cutting off circulation to the thorns spread throughout the castle. I have no real conclusion to it all, I'm just using deductive reasoning here.
I like this one, especially the Rogier connection, but then I would be wondering, if it was cut off and the deathroot withered away, why would Rogier become afflicted?
@@darth0tator, I'm not sure! My guess would be that deathblight requires a living host to truly flourish. Since the supposed relic is only a piece torn off from Gowdyn, it could only sustain the thorns for so long, and much like a dying tree, the first thing to be sacrificed are the "leaves" and "branches." The... limbs and digits, if you will. The corpse itself is still moderately saturated with death: not enough to cause affliction simply by being close to it, but enough to pose considerable risk should you decide to poke around in it. The rest is history. After all, Rogier *is* a living host.
This all makes so much sense… I feel like perhaps, the head and its effects reflect a more “benign” version of the curse? It seems like grafted limbs often end up being weaker than their un-grafted counterparts, as instead of working as part of a harmonious whole, they become part of a mismatched menagerie of parts that don’t all seem to fit well together. In this case, the body below Stormveil might be able to mimic the effects of Godwynn’s corpse, but without the same potency. Instead of the tendrils commonly associated with Godwynn’s corpse, thorny vines overtake the landscape while an aching void takes the place of the characteristic mounds of deathroot. I’m not sure, but it’s definitely got me thinking.
This is what I was thinking as well. I've heard other people mention that perhaps Godwyn was slain down there and his blood seeped into the groud, but I like the explanation of Godrick taking a relic to graft and perhaps the grafting ended up not really working, leading him to throw it away or something. From there, the relic's effects could be diluted, in a way, but like you said, it still mimics the death thorns from the full body of Godwyn.
I wondered if something had killed off the spread of what is likely deathroot in Stormveil All of the roots and briars are grey, they look dead. It appears to me as though the castle was becoming infested at first but idk just a guess
I wonder if it's some sort of symbolic message about the power of Gold fading, that Godrick resorts to grafting, becoming an amalgamation of various beings and creatures, like the world is described being during the Crucible.
A really cool thing in Stormveil is how in some areas they have metal pieces stitching the floor together so it doesn't open, like a giant wound that they are trying to heal, further proof that the castle is dying from a disease!
The fact that it’s lacking the deathroot growths, the hair, the faces and eyes, flies, etc makes me believe the devs went out of their way to establish that, while very similar, something different is happening here. I’ve been thinking a lot about Godwyn and why this is the appearance he takes. I’m willing to believe there’s something else at play here. We just don’t have the pieces to figure that out yet. I do like your theory though about how the body got there. Mine was that there is another outer god trying to find a way into the land’s between and spread it’s influence. Seeing as that lower area is used to dump bodies, this outer god found another perfect host to manifest itself in. This outer god would represent stagnation
I've always seen it as a sign that the deathblight is still in an early stage. It seems like all the deathroot we see outside Stormvale is all part of the same giant organism spreading through the ground, with the obvious origin being Godwyn's corpse. Seems like a piece of Godwyn was stolen away and it functioned as a seed to create a second colony of deathroot and a whole second clam-monster. This also says to me that the Godwyn we see isn't his literal body but a new organism growing out of his corpse.
Also I love the theory that there's an outer god using Godwyn's soulless body as an entryway to the Lands Between, it would honestly make a lot of sense. I really wish there was a little more to chew on with the Lichdragon arena since that's our only glimpse into what's going on within Godwyn.
Wouldn't Scarlett rot be something similar to stagnation? It develops especially into swamps, stagnant water After all the lake of Rot Is surrounded by 2 rivers which are able to contain It, rivers are flowing water
@@Ale-dd3ek I’d liken rot to decay rather than stagnation. Plus with stagnant water being present around TWLID, tibia mariners being, well, mariners and Godwyn growing fins and a fish tail, I’d have to say that death blight is linked to water in _some_ way I won’t deny that there isn’t any connection with rot and stagnation tho, especially since that’s how Melania beats her rot
Just… so insanely imaginative. It’s like he sticks with the flash card combos no matter what… “what if a CASTLE had like… CANCER? Give me that!” It’s the only game that has effectively disturbing and just… gross… architecture.
I dig the catch about relics traditionally being preserved body parts. Of course the sacred relic sword and finger slayer blade also seem to be nods in the direction. One thing I want to point out is that the thorns we see seem to be closest linked to the thorns that block your way in the erd tree, the ones Melina burns down. The capes the Nial and O Neil wear appear to have an wreath of thorns depicted on them. Also, the effigy for summoning allies is an icon of the round table with a crucified guy on top of it. You can tell it's not Marika because the person on it is missing a foot and is wearing the hood that usually has thorns on it. So thorns, the round table and crucifixions are symbols of the golden order. At the very least they are signs of tarnished who are aligned with the golden order. Finally, many demigods supposedly died on the night of the black knives. So maybe the body at the bottom of Stormveil is just a different demigod who was killed in a similar manner as Godwyn.
Beansnrice321 always coming with the knowledge drops. appreciate you man! I actually had no idea about the capes you mention; I will have to look into that. There was actually a whole section of the video I scrapped about depictions of briars, sin and punishment because it wasn't leading to a coherent narrative...maybe I can revisit that at some point with your thoughts in mind!
My favorite theory around all of this is that, in the attempt to rely on such an inmense and mostly unknown power, placing Godwyn's corpse at the roots of the Erdtree caused it to "bug" out and repeatedly try to resucitate him to no avail...that is except for the spread of deathroot all throughout the Lands Between
I'm glad I came across this video, your theory is pretty solid considering the only missing element i was waiting for until the end : In the announcement trailer (E3 2019) you can see Godrick raising a severed arm in the air (which match Godwyn skin tone) and you can see it twitching for a moment before the next scene! My headcanon is that, as you explained, Godrick took the relic of Godwyn with him in hope of gaining some power through grafting but as soon as he realized it was cursed he tossed (or hide) it in the castle deeps An interesting interpretation for this would be this recuring theme of the ubris of men and the fact that nothing last forever, trying to go against the flow of time result in the withering of things wether be it an empire (Marika's Golden Order) or an ideal (Godrick clinging to his lineage)
it could also be that that spot under stormveil is where godrick was killed. we know he was carried to the roots of the erdree from somehwere else, so it may not be too much of a stretch that the attack was carried out there in stormveil. maybe that would explain why the thorny vines look so odd compared to deathblight, either witht the removal of the corpse the vines grew weaker, less normal deathblight-ish, or the vines in stormveil are an early form of deathblight not fully changed by godwyns control over them yet
this might also explain why the head under the castle is upside down on the body. They removed the real head to carry it to the tree, and the body grew a new one, poorly.
it could also be that the regular deathblight only comes from it's connection with the erdtree. And the stormveil castle throrns happen without that connection (and as a manifestation of all that sin there, as someone here pointed out).
Legendary ashen remains. Use to summon the spirit of Black Knife Tiche. Tiche was one of the assassins who, on the night of the plot, imbued her black knife with the Rune of Death and slew Godwyn the Golden. She was the daughter of the Black Knife Ringleader, Alecto, and was killed protecting her mother during their flight from the royal capital. Godwyn was killed in Leyndell.
Yes, this was my hypothesis as well. Godrick wanted a piece of Godwyn's corpse to graft. I think grafting can also explain the differences we see in the thorns. He probably started by grafting it to nearby trees. One issue is that we actually have no confirmation that Godwyn was considered part of the golden lineage. But this being by far the best explanation for Stormveil Castle could itself be considered evidence to support that assumption. Another interesting thing about the castle is that it has two layers of architecture. The original matches Godfrey era keeps like Roundtable Hold while the newer layer is much more ornate and gold instead of stone. This 2nd layer was probably added by Godrick, judging by his sensibilities, and it is also damaged by the mottling and thorns (src: 8:47). So the cancer did occur after he occupied the castle. Some of the non-cancer damage is likely to be from Malenia's siege after Godrick insulted her (src: Kenneth Haight's dialogue).
Are you serious about Godwyn and the golden lineage? He's literally Godwyn the Golden, the golden lineage is defined as the children of Marika and Godfrey, and obviously Godwyn isn't son of Radagon. He inherits pretty much all of the symbolism of the Golden Lineage. He's the most golden lineage character of the game
@@xaitat I actually agree. I was just pointing out that since we don't have in-game confirmation of that assumption, it's nice to have more supporting evidence.
Without ever thinking about it too much or ever delving into lore discussions about it I’d always just thought this was the site of Godwin’s assassination, this video makes way more sense. I love the idea that it’s the result of a relic, especially when tied in with the idea of grafting.
Nepheli has her worked cut out (no pun intended) with getting rid of the curse of Godrick having taken a piece of Godwyn for his sick grafting ambition.
The stormveil corpse being an outgrowth of a relic Godfrey brought with him is a fascinating theory! I had always just assumed it was a manifestation of Godwin deathroot network but I see now this is unlikely. I think you are onto something with this relic thing.
Honsestly, I never did pay too much attention to the holes in the walls. I did always find the thorns kinda weird, but just never really payed them much mind. Honestly this video just showed me how much I sorta just don't pay much attention to really any of fromsofts like visual, map design story telling... Who knows, maybe starting fromsoft games as a hyperactive, dumb kid just conditioned me to focus on enemy ganks and what not too much. I mean I did only find out why the forgotten workshop erks me so like only yesterday. I think thats the name of the other hunters dream you find in bloodborne. Great video too, I really need to pay more attention to my surrounding minus just enemies.
My running theory on why storm veil castle has such a bad infestation of death root is because of all the bodies Godrick has been harvesting. Death root seems to need death it can rise from and the castle is essentially a mass grave at this point. Also the lowest part of a castle was where they threw all of their waste. It makes sense that Godrick would dump any body parts he doesn't use down there.
Very cohesive theory, the prince of death's pustule being the big lump between the empty eye sockets and growing into a disconnected Godwyn network makes a ton of sense. His quip about being the lord of all that is golden is now much more apt with this context. I like it a lot
imagine that Godwyn was assassinated in the place where the weird face is under Stormveil, his flesh and blood thrown upon the ground and left behind, while his body was moved to where it is currently, both growing into their current forms. Ane based on the location, the left-behind blood and flesh sprouted thorns only, as unliving, mineral-like growth, the main body, upon being infused with the erdtree, sprouted deathroot, an attempt at life, thus explaining the flies
Was the first thing me and my buddy Talked about for 10 minutes when we saw that holes. Funny to hear that there arw people who saw this and didnt think about it 😅
After countless having preplayed the bade game, still it fascinates me, well made video's like this feed perfectly into all that vague lore. Very well made video. Thanks for that!
At first I thought the holes looked like old melted damage, like from big lasers or something. But the pustules and rot makes more sense. Actually, some of the holes look a lot like fingerprints, don't they? The 'rot' on the stones looks like moss and algae to me. The head in the pit juts from the bedrock from the north-west ocean, and happens to look very much like a medieval drawing of a sea monster
An interesting detail I never noticed is that the portrait of Godfrey is of post-long march Godfrey and his broken axe, yet Godrick seems to scorn us for being a lowly Tarnished.
my theory on why godwyn seemingly follows godrick to stormveil was always because godrick is his decendant. godrick is a demigod because he is part of the golden lineage, which means he must be related to a child of godfrey and marika, but theres only three characters that fit that, and mohg and morgott both dont really seem like theyd be counted as part of the lineage, especially not mohg. Godwyn even has the god__ name structure that all the members of the godlen lineage have. therefore godricks greatrune was passed down from godwyn so his presence being strong there would make sense.
@@xaitat not initially. morgott is king of leyendell now, only after godrick was driven from there. he is only not a legitimate heir that the golden order has no other viable (sane) options besides him. but during the golden age when godwyn would have still lived he would still be in the shunning grounds and certainly wouldnt be seen publicly as a valid heir to leyendell. otherwise, if he always had been in line for the throne, why would there be more god__ named characters like godefroy and godrick?
What a Great video. Thank you so much for making this. I just subscribed. But there are some things I want to add. The thing you might notice if you examine carefully is that, one; the "thorns" sprouting from/under deformed Godwyn's clam-like mouth isn't the same thorns you find all over the Stormveil Castle. It actually resembles a tentacle of Octopus or a Squid. The claws coming out from the Sucker makes it seem like thorns. Interesting thing is, that the other corpse placed at the base of the Erdtree, doesn't have this feature. Two; the white thorns can be found from Mountaintops of the Giants. Impaling the corpses of fallen, now frozen Giant's corpses. And also Godwyn's corpse under Stormveil Castle has no eyes. The description of Thorn Sorcery (both Briars of Sin and Briars of Punishment Incantation) states; "An aberrant sorcery discovered by exiled criminals. Theirs are the sorceries most reviled by the academy. The guilty, their eyes gouged by thorns, lived in eternal darkness. There, they discovered the blood star." So the thorns and briars have a theme of punishment towards the guilty in the Lands Between. That's why people crucified near Stormveil have thorns wrapped around their neck. And the Blood Star these Sinners found have some kind of relation to Eyes being gouged out. Just like how Shabriri discovered the Flame of Frenzy. So I think Godwyn under Stormveil not having eyes has some connection to infectuous thorns. Also, I think someone said that in the alpha, Banished Knights Armor description said that their armor having Thorn engraving is to keep the "Curse" at bay. And I think the reason for Godrick not being influenced by the thorn-infection unlike the others is because even though Grace left them(Miyazaki's interviews), due to Destined Death being removed by Queen Marika, all Demigods are immortal. There is already pre-determined, Destined Death for Godrick. So therefore other forms of death cannot reach him and other Demigods. I think this holds true for Outer Gods too. Just like Madness can't be inflicted when dealing with Demigods, Blood Star(presumably Outer God) cannot influence Godrick. But, Scarlet Rot can be inflicted on Demigods unlike any forces of Outer Gods. But Scarlet Rot represents decay. Which is part of cycle of life. And I think the reason is that there already is precedent. Outer God of Rot somehow influenced Malenia since her birth. And during that process the God of Rot may have found a way to influence the Demigods. But this might just be another stupid theory of mine. In that case, LOL
If I'm being perfectly candid, I think stormveil was designed long before the darkroot depths and the finer details of Godwyns story were ironed out. Ill bet he was originally supposed to be under the castle, but by the time he was moved to Leyndell it would have added a month to alter the castles design. Obviously we can reconcile this with lore, but the whole place seems like an earlier version of game.
I dont think it would have been a ridiculous amount of work to strip out the thorns. They seem to mostly be their own layers on the model. You could probably do a broad removal in a day or two
@@trequor then you have the big cyst like holes in the castle, the enemies, the navigation, mapping, godwyns chasm, item descriptions, side quests, dialog and scripts.
@@codybates5659 I think it's a stretch to say that all those things were already finalized by the time Godwyn's basic backstory was finished. Or that Deeproot Depths came after Stormveil was totally finished. FromSoft loves going vertical with their worlds. It would make a lot of sense if they decided what to place at the bottom and top of the world before figuring out the middle. I would actually be very surprised if Stormveil wasn't one of the last places finalized before launch. It's the first major dungeon and has a LOT riding on it in terms of setting expectations for the rest of the game. If any spot is going to be polished its gotta be Stormveil.
I used to think both Godwyn bodies were still connected and functioning, but now I think that what we see in Stormveil might be just a husk of Godwyn's former main body. Maybe he started his transformation in the castle and at some point something caused him to move to the Darkroot Depths, which is why the roots seen in Stormveil are at a different development stage than the ones in the depths.
It's an interesting theory for sure. It makes me wonder though, the corpse growing out of the ground in Stormveil does feature the typical roots of deathroot, in stark comparison to the thorns growing out of the holes within Stormveils Walls, and they aren't found anywhere else in that Form, although the only other place I remember thorns Were the mountaintops of the giants, but I wouldn't be able to make a cohesive corrolation between the two, other than, look there is thorns growing over the corpses of the giants.
I thought it was from radahn attacking the castle, the tinge in the stone and fauna came from the heat of his meteors, causing the stone to become fertile for hard surface plants like briar
I personally think that the corpse under stormveil was a test run, creating a sort of false death blight, hence why Rogier didn't immediately die, instead being able to come to the roundtable
In the 2019 trailer of the game there is a scene of Godrick holding a large arm while seemingly kneeling down, I always had a vibe that the arm he was holding was special somehow in that scene. It could have originally been Godwyn's arm but was changed later with development, because Godwyn's corpse has both arms even in its huge distorted model. Or maybe the corpse grew the arm back when it grew to that massive size lol
Great video really interesting theory! Really well laid out. My interpretation was that Godwynn was the lord of Stormviel when he died. His corpse started to bloat but he was cut out of it Micolah style and put in the Erdtree. The corpse there is a husk like in the Haligtree
Another great video! Never thought much of the holes beyond thinking it was war or meteorite damage. After you progress enough in the story, the corpse in the Stormveil basement also has the bloodstain of Rogier succumbing to deathblight, but why did it kill him and not us? I feel this ties it more securely to Godwyn, but the question still remains. What is it? Why did Godwyn mutate into this fishy behemoth after death? The hollowness of basement face almost feels like a molting or shedding of a smaller form compared to what Godwyn looks like now. Thanks for picking interesting ER topics!
My first video recorded on PC instead of PS5. Two things I realized: 1. So many more possibilities 2. I need a better computer 😂 Game stuttered and crashed constantly but I hope the pain was worth it! What do you guys think?
@@ScarletEdge Hi ScarletEdge, all the music I choose for my videos is from the website Uppbeat. It's free to use and I'll drop you a referral link in case you wanna check it out: uppbeat.io/?referral=zayf-x8dvc I will double-check the name of the track at the end 🙂
this has been probably the best theory about stormveil that i have come across thus far. i really like how well thought out this video was to the smallest detail. thank you very much for the experience
Considering that there are other soulless demigods (kept inside the wandering mausoleums); it's also possible that the other giant face thing could be a different, nameless, soulless demigod. And that's just what happens with their bodies one their souls are removed.
A shame that Shadow of the Erdtree will likely be the last of the dlc's. If I was to pick one more, I would skip the Gloam eyed queen stuff and expand on Godwyn and the curse of death that is infiltrating all the land
The Thorns look suspiciously like those within the flame of Messmer and Exile Soldiers are all draped in similar red cloth, appear to use the Draconian player model, and they drop smouldering butterflies. I always looked at those holes and saw siege wounds. Like the castle was 'impaled' even and the black scarring was from something extremely hot warping the bricks.
This is some top quality editing! I noticed a lot of the same things you pointed out especially the thorns. My current impression of the state of Stormveil is actually more mundane. I hope you read through it: We know from the Great Kenneth Haight that Godrick had come into conflict with Radahn, Godrick hiding in the castle from Radahn being specifically mentioned. Radahn likely floated around the castle battering it his various gravity spells. For some reason though, he stops and leaves. Personally, I think the opening cutscene shot of Morgott attacking Radahn took place here and is the reason he stopped. This is where the supposed curse of grafting comes in. Rather than a literal magic curse it is likely that the "curse" term is being used to describe Godrick's obsession with grafting. Because of the obsession with grafting normal castle business cannot be completed. Everyone is either catching people to cut their limbs off or are having their limbs cut off or running defense for the castle. Sometime after this the battle of Aeonia takes place and Caelid gets nuked. This causes some dragons to flee west. These dragons are brought into conflict with Stormveil castle. Their claws rake the walls and towers while their fire scorches and melts the stone discoloring it. One set of claw marks actually looks big enough to match the Mother of Dragons herself. If that's the case Godrick's forces may have injured her in a way that left her limping back to Dragon Barrow where she would remain, crippled. Thanks to no one trying to fix the holes because they only focus on Grafting (the "Grafting Curse") native thorn vines are growing out of the dirt and up the walls.
YES! This is it! Finally! Questions I still have are: Which part of Godwyn's body did Godrick steal? Why are the thorns different from deathroot thorns? (oddly enough, when you showed the close-up of the dead firegiant, I noticed that the thorns on its body appear to be the identical kind of thorns that spread around Stormveil) Why does the Godwyn corpse below Stormveil look the way it does? - and related, what was the progression of its growth from bodypart to the shape it's in now? Why is the Godwyn corpse located where it is? It appears thrust through a wall. Was it capable of movement at one point, and did it charge through that wall itself? Did it grow through the wall like a plant, displacing the stone with its slow(or rapid?) growth? Did Godrick place it there initially, or did he keep it somewhere else at first, later moving it to where we see it?
Rough Hypothesis taking shape: Godrick kept the relic bodypart somewhere in the castle, hoping to eventually graft it. He experimented with grafting it onto something else first (like the grafting experiments hanging from the ceiling in the hall with the Godfrey painting). That grafting experiment grew into the shape of the Godwyn corpse under Stormveil, except capable of moving around under its own power like a living creature. Let's say that he used a subordinate for the base of the graft, like the Grafted Scions, and that's why the resulting creature was alive. This became a huge disaster. The creature went berserk, and Godrick and his forces had to kill it lest it destroy the entire castle. During that hunt, the creature slammed through the wall where we find it, and died before it could move anywhere else. This event would have led Godrick to conclude that the relic was not something he could graft to himself in order to take on the power and glory that Godwyn had in life, which had been his intention. It must have been a tremendous disappointment and ruined his vision for himself. He was forced to graft other, lesser vestiges of power, none of which really fulfilled his desire of becoming a representation of the best of the golden lineage in their prime - Godwyn and Godfrey. When we find him, he gets his hands on a drake, calling it a true-born heir; how far his expectations have fallen, that he's happy to become like a drake; not even part of the Golden Lineage, but rather the lineage of Placidusax of the age before Godfrey, and not even a true dragon but their lesser descendants. Godrick has changed his criteria for what's worth grafting over and over again in response to disappointments, till he has gone from wanting to graft a piece of Godwyn to wanting to graft a mere drake.
Modified hypothesis focusing on explaining the thorns: Did Godrick perhaps obtain a be-thorn-ed fire giant corpse from the Mountaintops of the Giants, and use that as the base of the Godwyn graft? Is that why the Godwyn corpse ended up so large, because it started with a giant? If the giant corpses are carriers of the white thorn curse, the grafted giant-deadGodwyn-creature's corpse could act as a vector for the spread of the white thorns into the stones of the castle.
A way we could find evidence to test this hypothesis: Look for signs of destruction that would have been caused by the creature rampaging (not the damage from the thorn-curse), left-behind remnants of the grafting experiment site that led to the creature, potentially a path of destruction between the experiment-site and the current corpse location, signs left behind by battles in which Godrick's forces attempted to kill the creature and eventually did.
i did wonder why the unnatural holes were there. on my first playthrough i thought irlt was the result of the Tree Spirit under the castle. like a worm digging through an apple
I love this theory. Not only good research and eyes for detail, regarding to the holes in stormveil - but also the best short summary of Godwynns Lore ✨Awesome video
Thank you for making this. I've been saying since about a month after release: Shabriri is the corpse. The corpse is Shabriri's original body. Shabriri's eyes were removed and we find them in-game (shabriri grapes.) We find 3. The corpse is missing 3 eyes. Shabriri is a disembodied soul before he takes over our samurai friend. The god of death requires a soulless body in order to create an avatar. Sharbriri was not a demigod. His body would have created a weaker avatar than Godwyn. Godrick went to Stormveil specifically because it was a site of some ancient power, which he had hoped to harness to reclaim his place in the golden lineage and reclaim his place in Leyndell. All this comes to the conclusion that Shabriri was the previous avatar of death before Godwyn. An ancient sec worshipped the avatar and interred their dead among it, hence the ancient skeletons in the coffin-like pods nearby. This type of deathroot is different BECAUSE it is a different avatar of the same god. Shabriri is the only other person we know of who's soul left their body (without the body being accounted for like Ranni's.)
Interesting but didn't the blind girl eat multiple "grapes" before we met her? I'm retuyto the game after several years away so my memory could be a little off😅
Great video. One thing I was hoping you'd address: the deathroot found throughout Farum Azula! It even has eyes despite not being connected to the ground.
Again, amazing theory. I was also wondering how the long distance between the deep roots and Stromveil connects Godwin and your theory just makes sense…
I feel that it is completely separate from godwyn. You can see stormveil in the dlc trailer and it has many aspects of deathroot on it. I speculate that it is somebody on that side of the veil that managed to somewhat break through onto this side. It’ll explain why if doesn’t have eyes, is separate from godwyn, and takes on a different form more similar to a mole than a fish.
I really liked seeing such a close look at the game like this. I spent almost a year off of any gaming related sites, videos, etc, so I could discover Elden Ring myself. I have written a single document in excess of 250k words…and never did anything with the information at all. Something is definitely going right with the way you did things. Very interesting video, and I imagine you spent ages doing exactly what I did, but then actually did something with it. Subscribed.
My guess it alludes to the Norse myths (and general myths) about how sirens have no souls. Many tales of mermaids include the caveat that they don't have souls (og little mermaid sold her soul not just her voice). Moreover the allusions to stagnation and standing water are reinforced. The Ainsel river seems to feed both the deep roots and the lake of rot perhaps indicating flowing (living) water ends in death and decay. Or maybe its a plot hole because the game as a whole is unpolished and a poster child for project scale creep.
I didn't realize those ties to Norse mythology @jamie8703! I do know that in Japanese mythology, Merfolk (Ningyo) are associated with both calamity/bad luck and longevity. Eating mermaid meat supposedly allowed people to live hundreds of years...I guess technically speaking, what Godwyn is experiencing is both bad luck and prolonged life since he is unable to truly die. Or I am just reaching 🙃
I think the "afterlife" in Elden Ring is an aquatic place. Like what the fuck is a Tibia Mariner? Why is he in a boat? Honestly, I have a lot of questions about boats, oceans and sea creatures when it comes to Elden Ring. Like theres no way this horrifying world's oceans are just empty. Theres gotta be some DASTARDLY shit in there.
@@buckyhurdle4776 Isn't that just some mythology? I forgot which one but there are people bringing dead people with a boat the underworld. So they prolly symbolize death itself coming to hunt you down slowly. Makes sense they are undead enemies as well and take increased Holy Damage. :)
Been genuinely blown away by the reception here guys! Thanks so much for watching. Some people have asked about supporting my small channel so I'll just drop some links but no pressure! Appreciate you all 🙏
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Phenomenal video. Looking forward to future content
You have a gifted way with words. Subbed as soon as you described the castle from a distance. Stoked to watch the Shaman village video
@loopy094 Appreciate you Loopy!
Perhaps the curse of grafting also affects the Deathroot, diminishing it, weakening it, merely infecting his army and castle with a living state of decomposition, rather than turning them into those who live in death.
Video fucking sucks, i know you were trying to have a vibe for you video but................ ..... ........ ..... ......... ...... ....... ... you take too long to string another word
While most of Elden Ring's music is pretty somber and dark, I always felt curious about how Stormveil's music feels like it's a prelude to something very bad about to happen. Like we are really not supposed to be here. It has this foreboding element to it that Godrick isn't the main threat of the castle, and we ought to not hang around too long, less the real danger unfolds.
Agreed! I wish I could use the official music without fear of a strike. Such a cool ominous feel to it that really adds to the overall vibe.
agreed. a prelude/forewarning. much like how Margit stopped us before the gate. it rhymes.
Great observation! I agree, and Stormveil's theme is one of my favorite. I just like to hang out there and be hypnotized by the ambience
I agree with the question posed, why are the stormveil pock marks so different from every deathroot-related landmarks? Strange how the stormveil artifact behaves so differently.
The name itself, "Stormveil", could suggest there's something 'veiled' behind it. FromSoft is usually very deliberate in their usage of specific words so I always thought there was more to the castle than we currently know.
At the game’s launch, you have no idea just how freaked out I was when I accidentally fell and saw this abomination at the bottom.
What the hell is it!! Looks like a rot dragon or a grafted one
It was quite the experience, I had it too.
@@tylerzidron1367 A replica of Godwyn's body.
@@RAHH1922 I do have a question tho, why did a lot of death root and Godwin’s influence grow in Stormveil rather than any other place?
@@screech5212did you not watch the video?
"stormveil castle itself has a cancer" yeah its gostoc
I audibly snorted 😂
@@hannahlagerquist1063 same ahaha
this one is good 😂
I killed him immediately lol
I remember going through that area on release day, or perhaps the day after, and noticing that I was losing souls even when went to pick them up. Thought it was a bug or that I was losing my mind until someone mentioned it was that lanky wank stain.
In vers 1.00 the Exile guard helms and armor directly speak about the curse and the need to keep one's face and body covered, lest exposure lead to infection.
THAT'S SO COOL! Thank you for the knowledge drop @falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962!
oh hell yeah this info is awesome
How great that I'm usually running around the castle half naked for better dodges
@@ZayftheScholar If you didn't know there is a post on the ER subreddit titled 'spreadsheet of all item description changes'. It is a google doc comparing all items descriptions from 1.0 to current patch.
@@Ykesha that's huge, actually. thanks for sharing.
these sore-like marks on the sides of Stormveil have been living rent free in my head for 2 years now.
I legit never noticed them despite playing this game since launch 🙃
@@ZayftheScholar they're really easy to miss within all the other devastation in and around the castle!!
@@ZayftheScholar thanks for making this, i'm glad to see more discussion around it on youtube
Totally! I thought the castle was just wrecked! I mean it is... but like many things in Elden Ring it goes deeper than that.
No, Thank you for taking the time to watch and comment!
I think the fact that you can find the Godskin Prayerbook and the Godslayer’s Seal in Stormveil Castle further reinforces this theory. Perhaps grafting Demigods is a different/more difficult process than grafting Tarnished, and the book and seal were there for Godrick to study how the Godskins graft the skin of Gods/Demigods to their own?
That would open up a whole new can of worms as to how he’d even get his many, many hands on such a thing. Did he know a Godskin personally? Were the Prayerbook & Seal some of the treasures he took when fleeing the Capital? (in which case what were Godskin-related relics even doing there?) If the book was studied by Godrick, why doesn’t he use any Black Flame when we fight him? Was he unable to master it?
I’d be very surprised if it wasn’t his, because there’s no one else in Stormveil Castle who would have any use for it. Another thing tying them together, is the fact that Godskins and Dragons seem to have something to do with one another, particularly in Farum Azula with the mummified Dragon Head in the Godskin Duo Boss Room, and the Divine Towers with the Cursemark of Death in Liurnia, and the Dragon Imagery of the Divine Towers, particularly the one in Caelid. Less relevant, but still notable, is the Godskin Noble in Volcano Manor in the Temple of Eiglay.
Godrick grafts a Dragon to his arm, calling it “O Kindred” implying some kind of relation? Maybe he knows something we don’t about the Godskins, Dragons, and/or the Golden Lineage…
Fascinating...the presence of a Godskin Noble in Eiglay paints a picture of Godskins traveling out into the world from their headquarters in Farum Azula to influence the direction of culture in the post-Shattering age.
A Godskin influenced Rykard, encouraging him to birth Serpentmen.
Perhaps a Godskin influenced Godrick, leading him to graft a drake.
Who else are Godskins trying to influence?
Yes I think you're right about that. We have evidence of Godskins all over the Lands Between, from Divine Tower of Caelid to Windmill Village and even Iji's death by black flame. The Gloam Eyed Queen's enforcers are widespread and were probably even more so before her defeat to Maliketh when she was an empyrean of the Two Fingers (src: godslayer greatsword, black flame ritual, godskin apostle set). The prayerbook and seal are likely spoils of that victory.
I’ve wondered if grafting can be done differently by different people, and that all the ones we’ve seen are “messy experiments” made by Godrick.
@@DavidStavisGodskins are implied to endorse everyone fighting against the Erdtree, you can find one in Ranni Divine Tower aswell.
One being worshipped by the Celebrants at the windmill village, and even Fire Monks who converted to the Black Flame, them being traveling priests inciting people to take down the Golden Order is actually a very solid affirmation.
I would argue that after Marika defeated the gloam eyed queen, she took away a prayerbook and seal, either for study or safekeeping. Godrick calling the dragon "Oh Kindred" might be related to the age of the crucible, in which the dragons ruled suppreme, so him being of the blood of an Elden Lord, and the dragons/lesser dragons being of the blood of a previous Elden Lord might have something to do with it, even though this is a very far stretch, even for me. Im however very sure, that it has something to do with the dragons having ruled the lands between before, and him being of the ruling class now.
I had a similar theory to this. Mine was that Godrick got his Great Rune from grafting a peice of Godwyn to his body which spread the deathblight throughout the castle.
That would go along with why godrick claims to be the lord of "all that is golden" dispite that being godwyn's title
@@markop.1994 I had also speculated that he isn't even a proper child of Marika and that he became one through his grafting of Godwyn's body. This would explain how we have Godefory. They are so similiar because they are simply just commoners that grafted themselves to the Golden Lineage.
I dont agree with this only because he has a chair like the rest of the demigods . He made a name for himself like Marika ordered all of her children . I doubt Marika would allowed him to have a seat if he was unrelated and especially if he grafted Godwyn. The person's death that sent her off the deep end .@@hex_gekko29568
Godwyn is never actually tied to anything golden. Besides his blond hair. But he is never specific called godwyn the golden or anything near that. It's a misconception people have about him.
We are never actually told who his father is.@@markop.1994
@@hex_gekko29568 He technically is a child of Marika, but his blood is heavily diluted. Even the demigods of Rennala and Radagon are called of Marikas blood, but that can be argued away with "Radagon is Marika", or alternatively, that they were accepted into the family of her, after Radagon remarried.
13:08 ”And one day WE’LL return TOGETHER” godrick and who will return together?? I think Godrick and Godwyn.
It is a cool parallel, that Godrick can only graft other limbs to him, while Godwyn's corpse (a part of it) can graft with the castle itself. Apart form the story implications, really shows how far Godrick is from what he aspires to be.
Godwyn seemed to have commanded respect, which is why you see he still has influence, while Godrick's influence does not extend his strength. Even his other castles have fallen.
Also there could be something to say about how Godwyn's hollow corpse spawned a cult, yet he has no agency in it because he's dead. The image of a saint being used for ulterior motives after their death, for good or ill.
I love the idea of a stolen relic being the cause. Honestly this makes me imagine a narrative of Godrick trying to use a piece of Godwyn for grafting, to boost his royal claim, but for one reason or another it fails-- maybe every piece of Godwyn's flesh carries the deathroot affliction. Godrick, impulsive and angry, tosses the relic down into the depths where it starts growing into the face of Godwyn and starts infecting the castle. There's scraps of fabric around the scene which suggest there were attempts to cover it up, to no avail.
one of the old trailers shows probably Godrick grafting a demigod like hand. Assuming he failed (like he does) he probably threw it into the edpth of the castle and there it grew. A whole hand of Godwyn probably could form the eyeless body in the depth...
godwyn is courpse wax
Perhaps the curse of grafting also affects the Deathroot, diminishing it, weakening it, merely infecting his army and castle with a living state of decomposition, rather than turning them into those who live in death.
So I don't know how often this is talked about, but this all may be taken from nature. When you graft trees into each other you are likely to get what is called a rootstock, which grows thorns (how you can identify it). The rootstock needs to be well managed and often cut off early if you want to have any good fruit otherwise it will take over the tree until it's a tasteless abomination instead of what you grafted it to produce. In fact, it can suffocate the tree completely until it's nothing but rootstock. Part of the other reason I believe this is the case is the golden scions are also a part of tree grafting since they are named after branches that could grow on rootstock, and if done right, produce its own fruit.
Basically, it's a castle of mismanaged affairs. Godrick is trying to capitalize on the suffocation of his castle and ignore the, ahem, root problem.
This also goes with the root beast mentioned earlier since it is "root"stock that is the source of suffocation. It makes sense it if personafied in a twisting wild natural beast that crushes you in a tiny space, as if trying to suffocate you as well as the castle.
On a different topic, the concept continues to follow outside of stormveil. In honest, from that aspect, a lot of "root" troubles come from things I deal in my garden. You typically find death root in water in game, for instance, flooding with mariners, and I don't think that's a coincidence since root rot is the number one plant killer. Much like Godwyn's state, it's a slow half death where the plant is fighting to live but even if you get to it you may not get to it in time and it just rots itself out from over watering or being in a pot that's too big for it so the soil never dries. If you leave it there, the remains of the plant stays there, a blackened version of when it was fully alive.
I'm gonna stop before I get to potting, jar people, and jar burials weeeee.
But yes. Point being, it shocks me how few videos look at the gardening aspect to trees to use as a lens for lore. Miyazaki did his research, not just in ancient cultures and religions, but in nature itself as well.
Tldr: IRL tree grafting explains a lot of things in Elden Ring, and so does gardening in general
Adding note that I am an indoor herb gardener primarily and live in a desert so I don't graft trees personally, so my description may not be put in the most accurate wording. However, more grafting info is only a Google away and that includes various other grafting failures like bacterial cankers and other tree related diseases that appear in the game (like mushroom men in caves being related to Honey Fungus for example).
Hey, just gonna comment and like so others see this. Not only was this educational, it had the cogs in my brain move in a way that makes me like Elden Ring lore more.
Jar people should have been called "the rootbound" hell yeah. I agree that in a game about a giant freaking tree people tend to ignore the whole dendrology aspect!
@@teagancombest6049tree stuff yeah!
May i ask what the benefit of grafting is, does the plant get stronger roots if it works or can it change the taste of fruits?
Very interesting info btw
Considering that godrick’s soldiers are nowhere to be seen but droves of spurned knights and soldiers from a faraway land are, and given the amount of thorns on both them and the holes in the wall, I always assumed that Godrick was a hostage in his own castle but was too mad to ever notice
Well another thing to note as well is thorns aren't only found on them, but also the prisoners who discovered the blood sorcerers. It's a mark of punishment, which fits the curse theme.
@@SallinKarihence why the soldiers in stormveil are called “exiled soldiers” they were exiled cuz they were criminals like the thorn sorcerers in the fire monk cult.
Very well thought out. I always wondered why that creepy-ass face was down there in the depths of the castle. Your theory makes a lot of sense that Godrick probably smuggled out a piece of Godwyn from Leyndell when he was exiled.
Or it's the previous leader that ruled stormveil
@@qualiswilliams7403 I've my doubts on that. The previous ruler of Stormveil fell in battle against Godfrey, which probably took place some time before the war against the Fire Giants, before Godfrey & the Tarnished were banished to their Long March, and even longer before the Night of Black Knives. Even if interacting with Those Who Live in Death was considered sacrilegious, Godrick likely cared more so about acquiring relics pertaining to the Golden Lineage as he made his escape from Leyndell. The castle itself, a trophy of Godfrey's victories, would have passed down throughout the generations, and its depths offered the perfect hiding spot for something as dangerous as a piece of the Death Prince. Imagine him grafting something as revoltingly powerful as that Deathroot husk onto himself; it could kill him on the spot, or it could make him into something much worse.
@@jefftheindianchief8279 id imagine if it was actually Godwin we'd see some signs of death...no demigod in the era of the golden order had been killed but we see there's a finger slayer blade and destined death use to be held by someone other than maliketh. Any history before the golden order is somewhat speculative because the order of events is out of sorts before the war that led to marika being the elden consort...I'm not saying it is the old lord I'm just not sure about godwyn either because there's no deathroot or anything that lives in death near or around it
@@jefftheindianchief8279Uh, not quite. While there's a mention that Godfrey faced the Stormlord on his own, there's no mention of the Stormlord actually being slain.
One theory goes that Placidusax is the Stormlord, having fled after his battle with Godfrey to the eye of the 'storm outside time'. Likewise we don't know the ultimate fate of the warrior who forged the Grafted Blade Greatsword, despite the implication that he was slain as well.
I knew about the thorns all over the castle, but I always just assumed the holes were from some old battle, like how you can see craters all over the ground in front of Leyndell. When you really think about it though they show up in some impossible places, like on the sides of a sheer cliff bordering the ocean
Amphibious assault and siege ships?
Dragon or Gargoyle attack? Quite a few flying creatures to pick from, and the holes which punch right through a wall have a matching crater on the next wall in. The initial damage is most definitely from an attack on the castle. Looking at spells like Comet Azure since the holes are in a straight line.
So are the craters a weakness in the castle, which allows the thorns to take root (like an infected wound), or is it Godwyn's presence in the walls creating some kind of "healing" effect (like scar tissue).
the holes are bulging outward meaning if they come from being blown through a wall, it was a blast coming from the inside aimed at outside, which then still doesnt explain the thorns or the discolorations.
alternative theory: thorns are mentioned to be connected to "the mother of truths" mentioned on the great stars / flame worshipper items so it could be connected to that. @@phoephoe795
In this line of thinking, the weapons used could be explosive or fiery in nature, with the blackened and scarred substance left in the craters being melted material such as slag, or perhaps residue left over from whatever alchemical or magical reaction was used?
Perhaps it was discovered that Godrick had stolen valuable items upon his exile, such as a Godskin, and Leyendell sent forces in an attempt to siege and reclaim their stolen property? Hell, it could even be that the malignancy festering upon the Castle is a direct result of their siege?
I also assumed it was caused by siege weapons, infused with some curse or enchantment that made the thorns grow-like how ivy damages walls, but sped up to weaponize.
5:55 I never noticed that Torrent leaves footprints on the ground..
dude, you blew my mind with my own video! 😂 I never noticed that either!
hoofprints ;)
The gashes and holes within the western wall are somehow caused by the storm winds imo. This is also why the exile soldiers cover their body with a red cloth.
I wrote a theory on this last year. Basically it's that the storm winds are cursed by the spirits of the tarnished that have been grafted within the castle.
Nepheli mentions how "the winds run foul with his(Godricks's) deeds" or "he's tainted the very winds". And Roderika mentions the suffering of the spirits that have been grafted.
This makes sense with Deathblight's own manifestations. If we take in consideration the location of every deathroot we find, we discover they are always linked to a place of death either by being a graveyeard or a battlefield of some sort (places where alot of death occured). So most likely Godrick might have stolen the relic from Leyndel, but due to his grafting caused it to "awaken" in some twisted form.
If we also consider that thorns are heavily associated with guilt and sin in Elden Ring (i.e: aberrant sorceries, Staff of the Guilty, Guilty Hood) then it could be that the stolen relic mutated with Godrick's sins of grafting causing this fucked up infection around the castle different from the standard Godwyn Manifestation. So the winds carry the infected sin throughout the castle which is why outside looks more fucked up then the inside, but if interacting deeply with the relic (like Rogier did) then you become actually deathblighted.
@@LucacielOfMirrah Yeah, I l like the theory. When I wrote my theory for some reason I completely pushed the idea of Godwyns influence on the "curse" aside. But I can definetly see that it could have some influence.
Except there's a secret cavern under the castle with a whole second Godwyn growing in it. It's 100% deathblight.
@@HeckYep You're right. Deathblight causes gashes and holes as well as white thorny vines everywhere it appears throughout the lands between.
Thankyou, I love it when I learn something new (and interesting).
So, I've always felt that Stormveil once belonged to Godwyn, which is why Godrick chose it as his base of operations. With that in mind, the site of the relic is probably where he was slain (the area kinda matches with the art of his death as well), and it's likely that his flesh and blood seeped out until his body was retrieved.
As far as the "wounds" in the castle itself, I think it has to do with both Godwyn's death within the castle, and the Godrick's grafting. A lot of killing (and therefore death) goes into grafting, so that much condensed death must have an affect on the relic.
Hmm so you think he was killed in Stormveil and then his remains were interred in Leyndell before they understood what the curse was? How did he get to the Deeproot Depths?
Perhaps they tried to feed him to the Erdtree roots in an Erdtree burial and it couldn't pull his soul out and instead just started sucking up deathblight?
@@NewMitchell-wh3fj Can't remember where it says exactly but Godwyn was brought to the Deeproot depths in hopes that burying him along the Erdtree's roots could help his curse. Needless to say, it did not go as planned.
It is pretty explicit Nobk happened in Leyndell and thus godwyn was killed there. Black knife Tiche description mentions black knight assassins fled the royal capital
@@xaitat I don't think it's that clear cut as you make it sound. Yes we know Godwyn was killed that night, and that at least Tiche and her mother were in Leyndell, but the rest is speculation.
The Black Knives going to the capital could have been a distraction, and/or a way to kill more demigods beyond Godwyn. We know that Godwyn was the first of the demigods to die, implying that more followed after. Yes, it could just be hinting at Ranni, but her death and part in the whole event seems to be largely kept under wraps. That, and we know that Markia had a lot more children that are not alive by the start of the game.
@@bSoulless000 it's just the most simple intuitive explanation, you'd have no doubt about this if you hadn't thought of godwyn's death being in stormveil before. Occam's razor really, complicating things with decoys and attacks on multiple locations doesn't make much sense
Someone claimed the holes came from Radahn’s gravity magic spells when the castle was besieged, with another claiming the castle is rotting due to the curse of Godwyn. It’s noticeable that many of the holes are partially or completely covered in thorny roots, which maybe lends more credence to the rotting theory 🤷♀️
The holes which go through the walls have a corresponding crater on the next wall in- so something smashed through the first wall and took a chunk out the second. Some kind of magical blast/beam and the thorns grew after?
it first i had always assumed the holes were blasted into the castle walls during a siege fight but yeah idd the holes bulge outward and are covered in thorns, if anything it feels like the castle is having an allergic reaction to the corpse deep below.
You don't have to put out theories, the marred shield descriptions confirms what it is, as mentioned in the video
The damage in areas beyond some openings suggest there were impacts. I DO think that's seige damage from when the order was forming.
I just also think godrick bonded godwyns corpse to stormveil as part of his obsession. Godwyn is "healing" the damage to his castle, the holes are filling themselves in. And godrick gets to keep the object of his obsession very close. My pet theory is that godrick wants to use the blighted curse, spread through grafting (old golden order practice iirc.) Irl, grafting a sick branch to a healthy tree propagates the infection. I think godrick intentionally seeded godwyn there, grafted him into his own castle. He can then graft who/whatever else into it all to build his own power out, and maybe in his mind restore godwyn the last way he knows to. Grafting itself doesn't curse you, unless what You've grafted on is cursed. Would godrick commit heresy against the order to maintain his loyalty to godwyn?
@@psychoticbreaks167justletm4 crackpot
I've always thought there was so much more to Godrick than met the eye. Such a good catch about there being no death root. As you were going through this, the lightbulb went off that he wanted to graft the piece of Godwyn (possibly the pustule?). Godrick's whole thing has been appropriation of his lineage to be someone he isn't, or trying to call back to a nostalgic time of power.
I think he adopted the name Godrick, appropriated the very old Stormhill with its legacy of war birds and stormshawks, tried to shortcut his demigod ascension through grafting, tried to bring about a new Golden Lineage through Godwyn's corpse grafting, and finally, tried to ascend yet again through his grafting of dragons, whom he (probably) recognized as the true first Elden Lords.
Godrick is an amalgamation of so many powerful things. He could easily have been the most powerful entity in the Lands Between if he had been allowed to ascend for another year or so.
Here are my general thoughts on this... from its appearance alone, the misshapen corpse is implied to have undergone the same ritualistic killing as Godwyn, as for it being deathroot or not, it most definitely is. The tentacles eminating from the corpse itself still have the characteristics of deathrooy, what with the thorns and portruding insect wings, not to mention Rogier becoming afflicted with deathroot after having performed his research there. A little sidenote: in Japanese culture and mythology, something that is deeply symbolic of death is stagnant water. Without the replacement of water through some kind of stream, bodies of water tend to build to large colonies of bacteria which later becomes largely toxic. Stagnant waters are also the favourite breeding ground for pestilent flies who live most of their larval lives underwater until sprouting wings and leaving their murky nursery. It could lead one to assume that the insect wings aren't merely a visual metaphor, but those are *actual* flies being born out of stagnation. Deathroot is sprouted from a living body without a soul, a body living in death, so to speak. But does that mean that deathroot necessitates a "living" host? That could very well be the case. Whether the identity of the whithered corpse being a relic of Godwyn... this would actually make a lot of sense. Godrick is desperate to live up to his heritage. It's absolutely something he would do, and if it *is* a relic of him, it could explain not just the lack of eyes in the sockets, but also its size difference with the "real deal" as well as why the deathroot we see around Stormveil seems.. white and withered. The corpse is no longer alive. Disconnected from its source, it withered and died, as any bodypart would, undoing the birthing cycle of pestinent flies and cutting off circulation to the thorns spread throughout the castle. I have no real conclusion to it all, I'm just using deductive reasoning here.
I like this one, especially the Rogier connection, but then I would be wondering, if it was cut off and the deathroot withered away, why would Rogier become afflicted?
@@darth0tator, I'm not sure! My guess would be that deathblight requires a living host to truly flourish. Since the supposed relic is only a piece torn off from Gowdyn, it could only sustain the thorns for so long, and much like a dying tree, the first thing to be sacrificed are the "leaves" and "branches." The... limbs and digits, if you will. The corpse itself is still moderately saturated with death: not enough to cause affliction simply by being close to it, but enough to pose considerable risk should you decide to poke around in it. The rest is history. After all, Rogier *is* a living host.
This all makes so much sense… I feel like perhaps, the head and its effects reflect a more “benign” version of the curse? It seems like grafted limbs often end up being weaker than their un-grafted counterparts, as instead of working as part of a harmonious whole, they become part of a mismatched menagerie of parts that don’t all seem to fit well together.
In this case, the body below Stormveil might be able to mimic the effects of Godwynn’s corpse, but without the same potency. Instead of the tendrils commonly associated with Godwynn’s corpse, thorny vines overtake the landscape while an aching void takes the place of the characteristic mounds of deathroot.
I’m not sure, but it’s definitely got me thinking.
I'm relieved to hear it makes sense actually! Was concerned I might be overlooking something that invalidated the whole thing
This is what I was thinking as well. I've heard other people mention that perhaps Godwyn was slain down there and his blood seeped into the groud, but I like the explanation of Godrick taking a relic to graft and perhaps the grafting ended up not really working, leading him to throw it away or something. From there, the relic's effects could be diluted, in a way, but like you said, it still mimics the death thorns from the full body of Godwyn.
I wondered if something had killed off the spread of what is likely deathroot in Stormveil
All of the roots and briars are grey, they look dead. It appears to me as though the castle was becoming infested at first but idk just a guess
I wonder if it's some sort of symbolic message about the power of Gold fading, that Godrick resorts to grafting, becoming an amalgamation of various beings and creatures, like the world is described being during the Crucible.
A really cool thing in Stormveil is how in some areas they have metal pieces stitching the floor together so it doesn't open, like a giant wound that they are trying to heal, further proof that the castle is dying from a disease!
The fact that it’s lacking the deathroot growths, the hair, the faces and eyes, flies, etc makes me believe the devs went out of their way to establish that, while very similar, something different is happening here.
I’ve been thinking a lot about Godwyn and why this is the appearance he takes. I’m willing to believe there’s something else at play here. We just don’t have the pieces to figure that out yet.
I do like your theory though about how the body got there. Mine was that there is another outer god trying to find a way into the land’s between and spread it’s influence. Seeing as that lower area is used to dump bodies, this outer god found another perfect host to manifest itself in. This outer god would represent stagnation
I've always seen it as a sign that the deathblight is still in an early stage. It seems like all the deathroot we see outside Stormvale is all part of the same giant organism spreading through the ground, with the obvious origin being Godwyn's corpse. Seems like a piece of Godwyn was stolen away and it functioned as a seed to create a second colony of deathroot and a whole second clam-monster. This also says to me that the Godwyn we see isn't his literal body but a new organism growing out of his corpse.
Also I love the theory that there's an outer god using Godwyn's soulless body as an entryway to the Lands Between, it would honestly make a lot of sense. I really wish there was a little more to chew on with the Lichdragon arena since that's our only glimpse into what's going on within Godwyn.
Wouldn't Scarlett rot be something similar to stagnation?
It develops especially into swamps, stagnant water
After all the lake of Rot Is surrounded by 2 rivers which are able to contain It, rivers are flowing water
Why would it be an outer god what
@@Ale-dd3ek I’d liken rot to decay rather than stagnation. Plus with stagnant water being present around TWLID, tibia mariners being, well, mariners and Godwyn growing fins and a fish tail, I’d have to say that death blight is linked to water in _some_ way
I won’t deny that there isn’t any connection with rot and stagnation tho, especially since that’s how Melania beats her rot
Just… so insanely imaginative. It’s like he sticks with the flash card combos no matter what… “what if a CASTLE had like… CANCER? Give me that!” It’s the only game that has effectively disturbing and just… gross… architecture.
Play Scorn.
"Okay, imagine a lake, but the whole thing is a poison swamp and the water looks like rotting flesh"
Yea but Scorn has no gameplay
@@Myth1cArts-ij1bveven worse, it has awful, boring, frustrating gameplay.
Play more games.
I always thought it was battle damage but now that you point out the fleshy substance this is quite a disturbing revelation
I dig the catch about relics traditionally being preserved body parts. Of course the sacred relic sword and finger slayer blade also seem to be nods in the direction.
One thing I want to point out is that the thorns we see seem to be closest linked to the thorns that block your way in the erd tree, the ones Melina burns down. The capes the Nial and O Neil wear appear to have an wreath of thorns depicted on them. Also, the effigy for summoning allies is an icon of the round table with a crucified guy on top of it. You can tell it's not Marika because the person on it is missing a foot and is wearing the hood that usually has thorns on it. So thorns, the round table and crucifixions are symbols of the golden order. At the very least they are signs of tarnished who are aligned with the golden order.
Finally, many demigods supposedly died on the night of the black knives. So maybe the body at the bottom of Stormveil is just a different demigod who was killed in a similar manner as Godwyn.
Beansnrice321 always coming with the knowledge drops. appreciate you man! I actually had no idea about the capes you mention; I will have to look into that. There was actually a whole section of the video I scrapped about depictions of briars, sin and punishment because it wasn't leading to a coherent narrative...maybe I can revisit that at some point with your thoughts in mind!
@@ZayftheScholar You bet, do it!
My favorite theory around all of this is that, in the attempt to rely on such an inmense and mostly unknown power, placing Godwyn's corpse at the roots of the Erdtree caused it to "bug" out and repeatedly try to resucitate him to no avail...that is except for the spread of deathroot all throughout the Lands Between
I'm glad I came across this video, your theory is pretty solid considering the only missing element i was waiting for until the end :
In the announcement trailer (E3 2019) you can see Godrick raising a severed arm in the air (which match Godwyn skin tone) and you can see it twitching for a moment before the next scene!
My headcanon is that, as you explained, Godrick took the relic of Godwyn with him in hope of gaining some power through grafting but as soon as he realized it was cursed he tossed (or hide) it in the castle deeps
An interesting interpretation for this would be this recuring theme of the ubris of men and the fact that nothing last forever, trying to go against the flow of time result in the withering of things wether be it an empire (Marika's Golden Order) or an ideal (Godrick clinging to his lineage)
it could also be that that spot under stormveil is where godrick was killed. we know he was carried to the roots of the erdree from somehwere else, so it may not be too much of a stretch that the attack was carried out there in stormveil. maybe that would explain why the thorny vines look so odd compared to deathblight, either witht the removal of the corpse the vines grew weaker, less normal deathblight-ish, or the vines in stormveil are an early form of deathblight not fully changed by godwyns control over them yet
this might also explain why the head under the castle is upside down on the body. They removed the real head to carry it to the tree, and the body grew a new one, poorly.
it could also be that the regular deathblight only comes from it's connection with the erdtree. And the stormveil castle throrns happen without that connection (and as a manifestation of all that sin there, as someone here pointed out).
Legendary ashen remains.
Use to summon the spirit of Black Knife Tiche.
Tiche was one of the assassins who,
on the night of the plot,
imbued her black knife with the Rune of Death
and slew Godwyn the Golden.
She was the daughter of the Black Knife Ringleader, Alecto,
and was killed protecting her mother during their flight from the royal capital.
Godwyn was killed in Leyndell.
@@ArisildeGodwyn's head is not upside down, it's tilted
@@xaitat Looking at the body model, it's like 180 degrees from how it should be oriented.
Environment Artist for ER bashfully kicking their feet together right now probably mumbling "Aw shucks" and blushing
Yes, this was my hypothesis as well. Godrick wanted a piece of Godwyn's corpse to graft. I think grafting can also explain the differences we see in the thorns. He probably started by grafting it to nearby trees.
One issue is that we actually have no confirmation that Godwyn was considered part of the golden lineage. But this being by far the best explanation for Stormveil Castle could itself be considered evidence to support that assumption.
Another interesting thing about the castle is that it has two layers of architecture. The original matches Godfrey era keeps like Roundtable Hold while the newer layer is much more ornate and gold instead of stone. This 2nd layer was probably added by Godrick, judging by his sensibilities, and it is also damaged by the mottling and thorns (src: 8:47). So the cancer did occur after he occupied the castle. Some of the non-cancer damage is likely to be from Malenia's siege after Godrick insulted her (src: Kenneth Haight's dialogue).
i feel like this also tracks with the fact that grafting in our current world is something done to plants
Are you serious about Godwyn and the golden lineage? He's literally Godwyn the Golden, the golden lineage is defined as the children of Marika and Godfrey, and obviously Godwyn isn't son of Radagon. He inherits pretty much all of the symbolism of the Golden Lineage. He's the most golden lineage character of the game
@@xaitat I actually agree. I was just pointing out that since we don't have in-game confirmation of that assumption, it's nice to have more supporting evidence.
Without ever thinking about it too much or ever delving into lore discussions about it I’d always just thought this was the site of Godwin’s assassination, this video makes way more sense. I love the idea that it’s the result of a relic, especially when tied in with the idea of grafting.
Nepheli has her worked cut out (no pun intended) with getting rid of the curse of Godrick having taken a piece of Godwyn for his sick grafting ambition.
Maybe something more “sinister” is a wink at the relic being Godwyn’s left hand.
MAAAAAAN! I always thought those holes were siege damage....Wild. It's pretty obvious now when you see where the debris from the holes is laying,
1:53 I was entirely prepared for that halberd knight to run out and knock that tarnished off the ledge and I almost feel cheated.
Damn this channel is underrated as hell! Amazing content, brilliant narration. You'll go places dude!
Thank you Sax! Looking forward to a collab at some point
Underrated because it’s overshadowed by VaatiVidya
The stormveil corpse being an outgrowth of a relic Godfrey brought with him is a fascinating theory! I had always just assumed it was a manifestation of Godwin deathroot network but I see now this is unlikely. I think you are onto something with this relic thing.
Honsestly, I never did pay too much attention to the holes in the walls. I did always find the thorns kinda weird, but just never really payed them much mind. Honestly this video just showed me how much I sorta just don't pay much attention to really any of fromsofts like visual, map design story telling... Who knows, maybe starting fromsoft games as a hyperactive, dumb kid just conditioned me to focus on enemy ganks and what not too much. I mean I did only find out why the forgotten workshop erks me so like only yesterday. I think thats the name of the other hunters dream you find in bloodborne. Great video too, I really need to pay more attention to my surrounding minus just enemies.
My running theory on why storm veil castle has such a bad infestation of death root is because of all the bodies Godrick has been harvesting. Death root seems to need death it can rise from and the castle is essentially a mass grave at this point.
Also the lowest part of a castle was where they threw all of their waste. It makes sense that Godrick would dump any body parts he doesn't use down there.
Very cohesive theory, the prince of death's pustule being the big lump between the empty eye sockets and growing into a disconnected Godwyn network makes a ton of sense. His quip about being the lord of all that is golden is now much more apt with this context. I like it a lot
Bro grafted a piece of a rotten god onto him and went crazy
It be like that sometimes. 😤
imagine that Godwyn was assassinated in the place where the weird face is under Stormveil, his flesh and blood thrown upon the ground and left behind, while his body was moved to where it is currently, both growing into their current forms.
Ane based on the location, the left-behind blood and flesh sprouted thorns only, as unliving, mineral-like growth, the main body, upon being infused with the erdtree, sprouted deathroot, an attempt at life, thus explaining the flies
Was the first thing me and my buddy Talked about for 10 minutes when we saw that holes.
Funny to hear that there arw people who saw this and didnt think about it 😅
After countless having preplayed the bade game, still it fascinates me, well made video's like this feed perfectly into all that vague lore. Very well made video. Thanks for that!
At first I thought the holes looked like old melted damage, like from big lasers or something. But the pustules and rot makes more sense. Actually, some of the holes look a lot like fingerprints, don't they? The 'rot' on the stones looks like moss and algae to me. The head in the pit juts from the bedrock from the north-west ocean, and happens to look very much like a medieval drawing of a sea monster
An interesting detail I never noticed is that the portrait of Godfrey is of post-long march Godfrey and his broken axe, yet Godrick seems to scorn us for being a lowly Tarnished.
my theory on why godwyn seemingly follows godrick to stormveil was always because godrick is his decendant. godrick is a demigod because he is part of the golden lineage, which means he must be related to a child of godfrey and marika, but theres only three characters that fit that, and mohg and morgott both dont really seem like theyd be counted as part of the lineage, especially not mohg. Godwyn even has the god__ name structure that all the members of the godlen lineage have. therefore godricks greatrune was passed down from godwyn so his presence being strong there would make sense.
Mohg and Morgott are absolutely counted, it's essentially the point of all morgott's character
@@xaitat not initially. morgott is king of leyendell now, only after godrick was driven from there. he is only not a legitimate heir that the golden order has no other viable (sane) options besides him. but during the golden age when godwyn would have still lived he would still be in the shunning grounds and certainly wouldnt be seen publicly as a valid heir to leyendell. otherwise, if he always had been in line for the throne, why would there be more god__ named characters like godefroy and godrick?
What a Great video. Thank you so much for making this. I just subscribed.
But there are some things I want to add.
The thing you might notice if you examine carefully is that, one; the "thorns" sprouting from/under deformed Godwyn's clam-like mouth isn't the same thorns you find all over the Stormveil Castle. It actually resembles a tentacle of Octopus or a Squid. The claws coming out from the Sucker makes it seem like thorns.
Interesting thing is, that the other corpse placed at the base of the Erdtree, doesn't have this feature.
Two; the white thorns can be found from Mountaintops of the Giants. Impaling the corpses of fallen, now frozen Giant's corpses. And also Godwyn's corpse under Stormveil Castle has no eyes. The description of Thorn Sorcery (both Briars of Sin and Briars of Punishment Incantation) states;
"An aberrant sorcery discovered by exiled criminals.
Theirs are the sorceries most reviled by the academy.
The guilty, their eyes gouged by thorns, lived in eternal darkness. There, they discovered the blood star."
So the thorns and briars have a theme of punishment towards the guilty in the Lands Between. That's why people crucified near Stormveil have thorns wrapped around their neck. And the Blood Star these Sinners found have some kind of relation to Eyes being gouged out. Just like how Shabriri discovered the Flame of Frenzy.
So I think Godwyn under Stormveil not having eyes has some connection to infectuous thorns.
Also, I think someone said that in the alpha, Banished Knights Armor description said that their armor having Thorn engraving is to keep the "Curse" at bay.
And I think the reason for Godrick not being influenced by the thorn-infection unlike the others is because even though Grace left them(Miyazaki's interviews), due to Destined Death being removed by Queen Marika, all Demigods are immortal.
There is already pre-determined, Destined Death for Godrick. So therefore other forms of death cannot reach him and other Demigods.
I think this holds true for Outer Gods too. Just like Madness can't be inflicted when dealing with Demigods, Blood Star(presumably Outer God) cannot influence Godrick.
But, Scarlet Rot can be inflicted on Demigods unlike any forces of Outer Gods. But Scarlet Rot represents decay. Which is part of cycle of life. And I think the reason is that there already is precedent. Outer God of Rot somehow influenced Malenia since her birth. And during that process the God of Rot may have found a way to influence the Demigods.
But this might just be another stupid theory of mine. In that case, LOL
If I'm being perfectly candid, I think stormveil was designed long before the darkroot depths and the finer details of Godwyns story were ironed out. Ill bet he was originally supposed to be under the castle, but by the time he was moved to Leyndell it would have added a month to alter the castles design.
Obviously we can reconcile this with lore, but the whole place seems like an earlier version of game.
I dont think it would have been a ridiculous amount of work to strip out the thorns. They seem to mostly be their own layers on the model. You could probably do a broad removal in a day or two
@@trequor then you have the big cyst like holes in the castle, the enemies, the navigation, mapping, godwyns chasm, item descriptions, side quests, dialog and scripts.
@@codybates5659 I think it's a stretch to say that all those things were already finalized by the time Godwyn's basic backstory was finished. Or that Deeproot Depths came after Stormveil was totally finished.
FromSoft loves going vertical with their worlds. It would make a lot of sense if they decided what to place at the bottom and top of the world before figuring out the middle.
I would actually be very surprised if Stormveil wasn't one of the last places finalized before launch. It's the first major dungeon and has a LOT riding on it in terms of setting expectations for the rest of the game. If any spot is going to be polished its gotta be Stormveil.
I used to think both Godwyn bodies were still connected and functioning, but now I think that what we see in Stormveil might be just a husk of Godwyn's former main body. Maybe he started his transformation in the castle and at some point something caused him to move to the Darkroot Depths, which is why the roots seen in Stormveil are at a different development stage than the ones in the depths.
Hopefully this theory doesn't have too many holes in it... Badum - tiss!
It's a thorny way to please the masses
It's an interesting theory for sure. It makes me wonder though, the corpse growing out of the ground in Stormveil does feature the typical roots of deathroot, in stark comparison to the thorns growing out of the holes within Stormveils Walls, and they aren't found anywhere else in that Form, although the only other place I remember thorns Were the mountaintops of the giants, but I wouldn't be able to make a cohesive corrolation between the two, other than, look there is thorns growing over the corpses of the giants.
I wish I could both like and dislike this comment at the same time
I thought it was from radahn attacking the castle, the tinge in the stone and fauna came from the heat of his meteors, causing the stone to become fertile for hard surface plants like briar
Death blight usually has specifically fly wings for thorns
I personally think that the corpse under stormveil was a test run, creating a sort of false death blight, hence why Rogier didn't immediately die, instead being able to come to the roundtable
The “we “ in his last words have to mean the thing under the castle
In the 2019 trailer of the game there is a scene of Godrick holding a large arm while seemingly kneeling down, I always had a vibe that the arm he was holding was special somehow in that scene. It could have originally been Godwyn's arm but was changed later with development, because Godwyn's corpse has both arms even in its huge distorted model. Or maybe the corpse grew the arm back when it grew to that massive size lol
Brother this went hard
@rxcklessdolphin Thank you so much man!
Great video really interesting theory! Really well laid out.
My interpretation was that Godwynn was the lord of Stormviel when he died. His corpse started to bloat but he was cut out of it Micolah style and put in the Erdtree. The corpse there is a husk like in the Haligtree
If you look closely the thorny branches in the walls look exactly like the thorns on the doors into the Erdtree.
You can also see that face in a lot of catacombs in shadow of the erdtree boss arenas. Everyone so far I have seen.
I really like this theory! There may be some holes in it as more people dig into it, but its well thought out. Nice job!
This is a cool take on this “theory”. Zullie the Witch was the first time I seen this pointed out
The essence of death is reclaiming all throughout the lands between. Thanks to the night of the black knives.
I don’t know why I never thought about the “relic” the way you did!
Great theory.
Another great video! Never thought much of the holes beyond thinking it was war or meteorite damage. After you progress enough in the story, the corpse in the Stormveil basement also has the bloodstain of Rogier succumbing to deathblight, but why did it kill him and not us? I feel this ties it more securely to Godwyn, but the question still remains. What is it? Why did Godwyn mutate into this fishy behemoth after death? The hollowness of basement face almost feels like a molting or shedding of a smaller form compared to what Godwyn looks like now. Thanks for picking interesting ER topics!
The theory got better as the video went on, very good content here.
My first video recorded on PC instead of PS5. Two things I realized: 1. So many more possibilities 2. I need a better computer 😂
Game stuttered and crashed constantly but I hope the pain was worth it!
What do you guys think?
Love it! Looks so crisp.
Hey Zayf, I appreciate the video. Bonus question: What's the music at the end of the video. I know it, but I forgot the source.
@@ScarletEdge Hi ScarletEdge, all the music I choose for my videos is from the website Uppbeat. It's free to use and I'll drop you a referral link in case you wanna check it out: uppbeat.io/?referral=zayf-x8dvc
I will double-check the name of the track at the end 🙂
@@ZayftheScholar Thank you so much.
Nice video!
What is amazing is that you have almost as many likes as you have subscribers. Now that is awesome Zayf.
Appreciate you all and love the positivity, thank you @lifeisgood5794!
If Mohg could carry a giant cocoon, I'm sure Godrick could carry a giant mask thing lol
this has been probably the best theory about stormveil that i have come across thus far. i really like how well thought out this video was to the smallest detail. thank you very much for the experience
Quite possible that godrick grafted the relic of Godwyn too the castle itself. That’s why the castle looks alive and infected
Considering that there are other soulless demigods (kept inside the wandering mausoleums); it's also possible that the other giant face thing could be a different, nameless, soulless demigod. And that's just what happens with their bodies one their souls are removed.
How the hell does this not have more likes
🙏
I agree! Loved this!
About what noted in shields description, I remembered the phrase: "the truth lies somewhere in between".
A shame that Shadow of the Erdtree will likely be the last of the dlc's.
If I was to pick one more, I would skip the Gloam eyed queen stuff and expand on Godwyn and the curse of death that is infiltrating all the land
I've heard of plot holes BUT THIS IS RIDICULOUS!
The Thorns look suspiciously like those within the flame of Messmer and Exile Soldiers are all draped in similar red cloth, appear to use the Draconian player model, and they drop smouldering butterflies. I always looked at those holes and saw siege wounds. Like the castle was 'impaled' even and the black scarring was from something extremely hot warping the bricks.
This is some top quality editing! I noticed a lot of the same things you pointed out especially the thorns. My current impression of the state of Stormveil is actually more mundane. I hope you read through it: We know from the Great Kenneth Haight that Godrick had come into conflict with Radahn, Godrick hiding in the castle from Radahn being specifically mentioned. Radahn likely floated around the castle battering it his various gravity spells. For some reason though, he stops and leaves. Personally, I think the opening cutscene shot of Morgott attacking Radahn took place here and is the reason he stopped. This is where the supposed curse of grafting comes in. Rather than a literal magic curse it is likely that the "curse" term is being used to describe Godrick's obsession with grafting. Because of the obsession with grafting normal castle business cannot be completed. Everyone is either catching people to cut their limbs off or are having their limbs cut off or running defense for the castle.
Sometime after this the battle of Aeonia takes place and Caelid gets nuked. This causes some dragons to flee west. These dragons are brought into conflict with Stormveil castle. Their claws rake the walls and towers while their fire scorches and melts the stone discoloring it. One set of claw marks actually looks big enough to match the Mother of Dragons herself. If that's the case Godrick's forces may have injured her in a way that left her limping back to Dragon Barrow where she would remain, crippled. Thanks to no one trying to fix the holes because they only focus on Grafting (the "Grafting Curse") native thorn vines are growing out of the dirt and up the walls.
So we learned nothing about Godwyn from the DLC.
That intro totally caught me. Count me in as a new viewer!
YES! This is it! Finally!
Questions I still have are:
Which part of Godwyn's body did Godrick steal?
Why are the thorns different from deathroot thorns? (oddly enough, when you showed the close-up of the dead firegiant, I noticed that the thorns on its body appear to be the identical kind of thorns that spread around Stormveil)
Why does the Godwyn corpse below Stormveil look the way it does? - and related, what was the progression of its growth from bodypart to the shape it's in now?
Why is the Godwyn corpse located where it is? It appears thrust through a wall. Was it capable of movement at one point, and did it charge through that wall itself? Did it grow through the wall like a plant, displacing the stone with its slow(or rapid?) growth? Did Godrick place it there initially, or did he keep it somewhere else at first, later moving it to where we see it?
Please tell me you have answers to these questions right? I NEED TO KNOW 😭
Rough Hypothesis taking shape:
Godrick kept the relic bodypart somewhere in the castle, hoping to eventually graft it. He experimented with grafting it onto something else first (like the grafting experiments hanging from the ceiling in the hall with the Godfrey painting). That grafting experiment grew into the shape of the Godwyn corpse under Stormveil, except capable of moving around under its own power like a living creature. Let's say that he used a subordinate for the base of the graft, like the Grafted Scions, and that's why the resulting creature was alive. This became a huge disaster. The creature went berserk, and Godrick and his forces had to kill it lest it destroy the entire castle. During that hunt, the creature slammed through the wall where we find it, and died before it could move anywhere else. This event would have led Godrick to conclude that the relic was not something he could graft to himself in order to take on the power and glory that Godwyn had in life, which had been his intention. It must have been a tremendous disappointment and ruined his vision for himself. He was forced to graft other, lesser vestiges of power, none of which really fulfilled his desire of becoming a representation of the best of the golden lineage in their prime - Godwyn and Godfrey. When we find him, he gets his hands on a drake, calling it a true-born heir; how far his expectations have fallen, that he's happy to become like a drake; not even part of the Golden Lineage, but rather the lineage of Placidusax of the age before Godfrey, and not even a true dragon but their lesser descendants. Godrick has changed his criteria for what's worth grafting over and over again in response to disappointments, till he has gone from wanting to graft a piece of Godwyn to wanting to graft a mere drake.
Modified hypothesis focusing on explaining the thorns:
Did Godrick perhaps obtain a be-thorn-ed fire giant corpse from the Mountaintops of the Giants, and use that as the base of the Godwyn graft? Is that why the Godwyn corpse ended up so large, because it started with a giant?
If the giant corpses are carriers of the white thorn curse, the grafted giant-deadGodwyn-creature's corpse could act as a vector for the spread of the white thorns into the stones of the castle.
A question none of these hypotheses answer: Why doesn't the corpse have eyes?
A way we could find evidence to test this hypothesis: Look for signs of destruction that would have been caused by the creature rampaging (not the damage from the thorn-curse), left-behind remnants of the grafting experiment site that led to the creature, potentially a path of destruction between the experiment-site and the current corpse location, signs left behind by battles in which Godrick's forces attempted to kill the creature and eventually did.
i did wonder why the unnatural holes were there. on my first playthrough i thought irlt was the result of the Tree Spirit under the castle.
like a worm digging through an apple
just what i needed to start my weekend off right! great work as always mate
P.S. i think the new capabilities of PC footage will really add a lot to your videos! great job with the cinematography
Thanks so much @galaxsija4591! Hope you have a great weekend bro
I love this theory. Not only good research and eyes for detail, regarding to the holes in stormveil - but also the best short summary of Godwynns Lore ✨Awesome video
Thanks so much for leaving a nice comment and taking the time to watch Ragel_Rachel! Appreciate you 🙏
Thank you for making this. I've been saying since about a month after release: Shabriri is the corpse.
The corpse is Shabriri's original body. Shabriri's eyes were removed and we find them in-game (shabriri grapes.) We find 3. The corpse is missing 3 eyes.
Shabriri is a disembodied soul before he takes over our samurai friend.
The god of death requires a soulless body in order to create an avatar.
Sharbriri was not a demigod. His body would have created a weaker avatar than Godwyn.
Godrick went to Stormveil specifically because it was a site of some ancient power, which he had hoped to harness to reclaim his place in the golden lineage and reclaim his place in Leyndell.
All this comes to the conclusion that Shabriri was the previous avatar of death before Godwyn. An ancient sec worshipped the avatar and interred their dead among it, hence the ancient skeletons in the coffin-like pods nearby. This type of deathroot is different BECAUSE it is a different avatar of the same god. Shabriri is the only other person we know of who's soul left their body (without the body being accounted for like Ranni's.)
Interesting but didn't the blind girl eat multiple "grapes" before we met her? I'm retuyto the game after several years away so my memory could be a little off😅
Great video. One thing I was hoping you'd address: the deathroot found throughout Farum Azula! It even has eyes despite not being connected to the ground.
Was farum Azula removed from Caelid to try and physically separate Godwyns blighted body from the rest of the lands between?
Good video and soothing voice
Damn dude the theory of Godrick carrying the relic for grafting and it grew into that thing is so good
Again, amazing theory. I was also wondering how the long distance between the deep roots and Stromveil connects Godwin and your theory just makes sense…
I feel that it is completely separate from godwyn. You can see stormveil in the dlc trailer and it has many aspects of deathroot on it. I speculate that it is somebody on that side of the veil that managed to somewhat break through onto this side. It’ll explain why if doesn’t have eyes, is separate from godwyn, and takes on a different form more similar to a mole than a fish.
Stormveil isn’t in the DLC trailer lol??
I really liked seeing such a close look at the game like this. I spent almost a year off of any gaming related sites, videos, etc, so I could discover Elden Ring myself. I have written a single document in excess of 250k words…and never did anything with the information at all. Something is definitely going right with the way you did things. Very interesting video, and I imagine you spent ages doing exactly what I did, but then actually did something with it.
Subscribed.
These shots of storm veil are just spectacular
Thank you so much @GatsuTheBranded! 🙏 Took me some time
I've met the channel today. And i'm already a big fan. Congratulations and, nice video!
Thanks @alen_dm5896! Means a lot to me
I was too busy dying in this game and didn't noticed everything! 😅
Good job on the camera angles and editing, obviously a lot went into it the video that the viewer will likely not notice!
Does anyone know why Godwyn has a fish tail?
My guess it alludes to the Norse myths (and general myths) about how sirens have no souls. Many tales of mermaids include the caveat that they don't have souls (og little mermaid sold her soul not just her voice). Moreover the allusions to stagnation and standing water are reinforced. The Ainsel river seems to feed both the deep roots and the lake of rot perhaps indicating flowing (living) water ends in death and decay. Or maybe its a plot hole because the game as a whole is unpolished and a poster child for project scale creep.
I didn't realize those ties to Norse mythology @jamie8703! I do know that in Japanese mythology, Merfolk (Ningyo) are associated with both calamity/bad luck and longevity. Eating mermaid meat supposedly allowed people to live hundreds of years...I guess technically speaking, what Godwyn is experiencing is both bad luck and prolonged life since he is unable to truly die. Or I am just reaching 🙃
I think the "afterlife" in Elden Ring is an aquatic place. Like what the fuck is a Tibia Mariner? Why is he in a boat? Honestly, I have a lot of questions about boats, oceans and sea creatures when it comes to Elden Ring. Like theres no way this horrifying world's oceans are just empty. Theres gotta be some DASTARDLY shit in there.
@@buckyhurdle4776
Isn't that just some mythology? I forgot which one but there are people bringing dead people with a boat the underworld. So they prolly symbolize death itself coming to hunt you down slowly. Makes sense they are undead enemies as well and take increased Holy Damage. :)
@chaosinfernoid9008 Perhaps you are thinking of Greek Mythology? Charon and the River of Styx?
This theory just nails it. Actually I've never even seen the body part in the Stormveil Depths. Learning something new every day.
Beautifully, BEAUTIFULLY edited
You find Godwyns body part down at the bottom of the castle, that's the deathrot that's caused from godwyn