Man, you had me at the Charles Godfrey observation, but when you showed the huge similarities between the Red Bears attacks and Hoarah Loux's, my jaw dropped. Can't believe I never noticed this. I think that the greatest beast that Hoarah Loux tamed was not Serosh, but himself.
I think you are spot on about the greatest beast that was tamed being Hoarah Loux. It my mind Hoarah Loux subjugated Serosh, Marika then subjugated Hoarah and they made the persona of Godfrey. An argument could be made that Hoarah "subjegates" himself, by mastering and controlling his bloodlust, the ultimate act of self control. I also believe there is a link between the shaman's flesh that would "meld harmoniously", and Serosh being put upon Hoarah Loux's back, and the later grotesque Grafting of Godrick. Why Hoarah would be able to meld with Serosh is kind of beyond me though, as I ascribed Godrick's grafting abilities to come through Marika through Godfrey's and Marikas union. Unless Hoarah's links to the Crucible are what allows this fusion.
This makes me wish that after the Godfrey fight at the end of the game, once Godfrey removes serosh from his back, that perhaps serosh would then find himself back in enir elim as a secret boss fight or something.
Messmer’s soldiers not only look like the axe talisman depiction and leather crown, but they do the ground stomp like Godfrey and his crucible knights.
Awesome video man, people aren't talking about Godfrey's importance in the DLC enough. And thanks for giving the chalice a satisfying explanation. Lords Bestowal Talisman always seemed curious to me
Even in my first playthrough I always found it interesting that Hoarah Loux never actually used any type of punching attacks. All of his hand attacks or open, with his fingers curled as if ready to slash or grab. And then of course, there are his grab attacks.
I started out skeptical, but yeah there’s something here. Rugalea’s Roar gives another clue - it’s compared to “a divine invocation of the Hornsent”. And of course this beast is right next to where you get the Highland armor, and it fights exactly like Hoarah Loux down to the ground-burst attacks. And yeah, Godfrey’s strong connection to the Crucible strongly associates him with the Hornsent.
I don’t even think Godwyn is Godfrey’s real son. I think he’s yet another secret pairing between Marika and Radagon. Radagon even uses “bolts” of “lightning” like it implies Godwyn used. Plus he was her “favourite”. Plus the mermaid tail his current form has comes from the Elden Beast’s fish tail. There are no Godfrey qualities
@@Garl_Vinlandwell Godwyn learned lightning through the Dragons if I’m not mistaken. So it makes even more sense that Godwyn is Godfrey’s son because if it is in Highland culture to subjugate beasts, Godwyn was able to subjugate Fortissax; which also dates him to before the birth of Morgot and Mohg because horns were seen as a blessing BEFORE the birth of the Erdtree and dragons ruled before that.
@@Garl_Vinland that doesn’t mean they aren’t beasts, though. Placidusax was a Dragonlord that was Elden Lord before Godfrey. The game tells you that dragons are ancient beasts, not ancient gods. The whole Bayle the Dread quest line explains that the ancient dragon communion was created to subjugate dragons and use their powers in ancient times SO Godwyn probably learned that and created a dragon communion for those powerful enough to use their abilities.
Damn, that's the seduction and betrayal, Marika married Hoarah Loux, the lord of the hornsents and changed him into Godfrey, then removed his grace and exiled him before destroying his people..
Yeah that seems like the best theory. Godfrey does seem to have a good relationship with his sons, so they were likely thrown into the sewers after he was banished.
I had a feeling Horrah Loux was that nameless hornsent hero, and was probably a Highlander, but I never noticed the similarities between his move set and that of the runebears!
The parallels to GoT make me wonder if the strumpet part is the grandam having the same realization that Ned had, how did a blond woman and a man of whatever hair color godfrey originally had, give birth to a redhead? My theory is that the grandam may have threatened to reveal this to godfrey, leading marika to exile him and order Messmers crusade to get vengeance.
I don't know, I think Godfrey marched alongside Messmer in his campaign. It's obvious to me that the foot soldiers were actually Godfrey's, as they use axes and the familiar stomp attack
This is a very good video. The Godfrey implications are not far-fetched and are both thematically and visually coherent. This is much better than many of the established lore videos available currently. Good job.
This is one of the better DLC lore videos I've watched. The connection between Ornis and Godfrey is very compelling. I've been thinking of the importance of the hornsent as beast hunters. Great job with the ceremonial crowning of Hoarah Loux to Godfrey. Especially with the Crucible Knights connection
I think this theory may fit with my own that the scadutree was or is related to the crucible, and its current state is due to marika drawing on one half of its power, leaving the other to wither. When you explore enur ilim, you encounter tablets showcasing a tree wrapped around itself. However, this tree is balanced, each wrapping around each other equally, whereas the scadutree has one trunk that is straight, and another that is constricting it, breaking its bark. If the bowl that is beyond this arch was once used to collect the sap from the straight, "erdtree" half, i think i can connect it to another item. Devonia's hammer. In devonia's hammer, we see a circle enshrouded by roots on the striking face, which is said to be molded in the shape of a "torrent of life". A torrent, or flow of life energy. What do we see beyond the arch? I bowl, used to collect a flow of the very life essence of the erdtree, surrounded by roots. This also mirrors horah louix's story. The tree had half of it suppressed, as did horah loux when he became godfrey. As for the erdtree in leyendel? I believe it is nothing more than a larger version of the minor erdtree incantation, sustained by marika. Thats why as some point it stopped giving blessings, the erdtree half of the scadutree is being strangled to death by its other half, so its source of power is dying.
If we consider the spiral to be the primary elements of existence, life and death, and that the trees once existed in harmony, then it makes sense that the Scadutree is withering or strangling itself. Death cannot be sustained without life. The Shadowlands are the land of death, while Marika's overworld is the land of life, having removed the Rune of Death. The opposite is also true, life cannot be sustained without death, which could be why Marika failed and the physical Erdtree no longer exists. The spiraling crucible energy represents perfect balance to maintain the cycle of life and death. There are multiple instances of lore stating the crucible was an early version of the Erdtree or that the Erdtree came from primordial crucible energy. You can see one representation of this at the 18:08 mark. The tree sprouts from a spiral pattern.
This also explains why the Erdtree itself is more of an "illusion" it's transparent like Melina's version of Minor Erdtree. But I also think the Erdtree was previously burned
I like this theory, but we do see depictions of the "Greattree" that don't have a spiral and just look like a regular tree. I wonder if the hornsent wanted to turn the Greattree into a spiral tree to create a strong crucible current by using the gate of divinity.
Wait...so Godfrey might not have wavered to serve Marika because she subjugated the Elden BEAST. The game says multiple times how beasts are drawn to champions and to serve the being that is master of THE beast would be the ultimate honour.
Very satisfying way to tie these bits of scattered info together. It also never occurred to me until now, but Serosh is the only other beast we see aside from Torrent able to assume a spectral form, and given the specimen storehouse had Torrent-looking beasts within it, it ties the idea that Serosh, StormHawk, etc. may have all been the divine spirits/beasts the Hornsent worshipped after all.
Happy to see another supporting the Godfrey being of the Tower folk and seduced by Marika. The movesets of the divine warriors reflecting the crucible knights also is what led me to the assumption
Actually that's an interesting theory. We spent so much time learning Marika's history, but we never stopped to ask who Godfrey really was before Marika's ascension, the only thing we knew was that he was a warrior with an insatiable thirst for battle
@@kwamemwangs2173 He got to badlands after he became the first lord of Marika and got exiled from Lands between before Lurian wars. After his exile from Lands between he moved and adopted another title chieftain of the badlands but he isn't from there.
@@kwamemwangs2173 I believe the "Badlands" was the Limgrave/Weeping Penninsula region it has all the geographical and weather features of a Badlands. also to support the theory is Godfrey embodies aspects of the crucible and leads the crucible knights. He doesn't wield inhuman physiology but he does wield the unbridled strength of the crucible which is why he's so strong and creates fissures and erupts the ground like an earthquake. The crucible knights and the divine warriors of the tower all share similar attack styles, using powers of the crucible, and high poise damage. it's possible the crucible knights were Godfrey's personal envoy always and that the most elite would become divine warriors of the tower. in fact i think Godfrey's conquest of castle morne was during this time and the revenger was possibly an enemy hornsent clan member who's clan was killed by the tower folk as we know they also purged Midra's Manse so there was likely petty conflicts within hornsent culture....reason being that the revenger is said to be from a land long vanished which we now know is the shadowlands.
So many things suddenly make so much sense, very well done with the video. I wonder if Godfrey being of/relating to the Hornsent could be how Morgott and Mohg both ended up as horned Omen
I like it. One thing of note to possibly tie in your Godfrey soldiers working for mesmer theory is the suits orgins. The soldiers armor is clearly Roman and Celtic in origin. Lets start with the Roman side. there are 2 kinds of common roman armor. Lorica Segmentata or Lorica Hamata (Gallica). The latter is literally inspired by Gauls when Rome conquered the Celtics. The Celtics side of the armor actually lies within the main suit itself. The green cape with the chest shield is basically a one for one when you type "celtic chainmail" in google. Since Godfrey is Highlander and Mesmer is Roman inspired this was a cool detail I noticed as soon as I got to the shadow dlc. Great find
Something I just noticed: the Highland Armor has two thin cloth wraps around the left arm. There is one other person who we often see with thin strips of cloth wrapped around her arms - Marika. Each wrap is a symbol, as in some statues she has both, in some she has only one, and in some she has none. The arm wraps in the Highland Armor must bear some significance. If we know what the wrap on the left arm of Marika means, then we might discover what the two wraps on the left arm of the Highland Armor mean, and what that means for Godfrey.
This is amazing! Eveything just clicked. It's worth noting that the Scadutree WAS (and is still really a part of) the Erdtree before the Shadowlands were sealed. So, the chalice was originally a vessel for the Erdtree's sap. It might be obvious, but it's important to emphasize.
Wow, very interesting. It will solidify that the timeline of the Crusade was after Godfrey's banishment but before Radagon married Marika. I assume that Godfrey would not be that chill if he knew that the hornsent will be purged, if he really was related to them. I am also in the camp that Marika being called a strumpet has a lot to do with her marrying Godfrey. It is likely that Marika not only hijack the ascension process, but also seduced Godfrey and made him the enforcing arm of her order. This is very possible as we know that Miquella has the ability to charm people and it is not crazy to think that Marika has some form of that ability as well, being that she is his mother and she would also have access to that power of the rune via the elden ring.
It doesn't solidify that. There's not enough proof or conjecture to make that a leading theory, and there's also a number of facts and conjecture that support a contradictory theory. The coliseum's primary usage is set during Godfrey's time, before he was exiled. The coliseum duelists wear armor depicting snakes, and the lion mini-bosses we fight are incredibly similar to the lion divine beast of the Hornsent. It's also a hard sell that Marika would have condoned Messmer's fire for so long after the war against the fire giants ended. And most importantly, Morgott and Mohg are said to be of the golden lineage, presumed to be Godfrey's sons. They were born as Omen, afflicted by the curse of resentment from the Hornsent.
@@Deadgye The Grandam curse likely was for Marika's "betrayal and seduction" not the crusade itself. Maybe there were initial atrocities done by Marika, but those were not officially part of the crusade. Things of the Crucible were not outright hated after Marika ascended, it was a movement that grew in popularity after Godfrey was banished. Also, Messmer and Gaius were older brother figures to Radahn which would only happen if they were still in TLB. The omen twins were born before Radahn. Rellana's remembrance is in the nail in the coffin here. It would make no sense for Renalla to bless her sister's crusading if they are still enemies of the Golden Order. At the very least the Crusade happened before Radagon dumped Renalla.
@@Deadgye It's not a hard sell that's why she made a rune replacement for Mesmmer's eyes and gave him a rune so Mesmmer wouldn't be outright hated. Eventually the base serpent managed to broke out of the seal, terrified citizens of Golden Order and so was sealed away in the crusade with other criminals that were within the forces of Golden Order. Mesmmer was her favorite son like Morgott was favorite son of Godfrey.
Another little detail tying Hoarah Loux to the Hornsent are his braids. His beard is braided and noticeably spiral-like, while the side and back of his hair share the same pattern. Hornsent culture revered spirals, and their divine tower is the apex of their beliefs. Hoarah Loux's name being changed to GODfrey, and his later offspring of Godwyn, Godrick, Godefroy, and perhaps other unknown children, all tie to the marriage with Marika, the one true God. Perhaps Morgott and Mohg were born before Marika ascended to godhood, their crucible features still being looked upon as divine, but after Marika became a God they would be hidden and shackled as nothing more than Omens. After supplanting whichever God stood before Marika, the golden lineage would come about, and each child of this newly formed era would take up the prefix "God" just like Godfrey and Marika's new position as God and Lord.
Amazing video. You brought up an interesting theory, tied in archeological and historical evidence, in game descriptions and context clues, and delivered it in a concise and well edited package, all while offering great insight into the character of Godfrey and surrounding lore of the DLC and base game. You’ve earned a sub and a share!
love this theory, dont know if i buy it fully but nice to see new theories that arent completly unhinged, on the contrary this quite grounded gr8 job m8
One of the best lore vids ive seen in a while. I think this exposes a huge piece of the puzzle thats been missing in regards to the seduction and betrayal
The question I have is why Godfrey retained loyalty to Marika even after her betrayal by exiling him and his people to die. He comes back and fights the Tarnished as directed by her grace. A Tarnished that wasn't just one of Godfrey's loyal soldiers but also a fellow exile. I feel like there's so much story getting over looked about the army of Tarnished's origins and what they did outside the Lands Between, Godfrey includex.
Hey Brotha! My compliments, since I saw that description in the talisman I ever wonder about the meaning, but until now I didn't find anything, thank you! (:
Awesome! This analysis has some massive implications for the trinity of Marika-Hoarah Loux-Hornsent Civilizations. We can see Marika's statues and stakes all across the Shadow Lands, implying that Marika was a prominent figure in Hornsent society at some point. If Hoarax Loux was also a revered champion of old, did Marika converted him, step by step, and shared her deep hatred for the Hornsent, the both of them devising a plan to enact vengeance? This is perfect considering the story trailer and the words of the Grandmother. Marika betrayed the Hornsent, having Godfrey and his Followers/Knights usurp Inir Elim, and claim the Gates of Ascendance for their own. Because even if both Marika and Godfrey were prominent figures, Inir Elim looks like a spiritual place that would be guarded by Crucible priests or something, so they would actually need to shed some blood to gain complete control of the Gates. Marika ascends, Godfrey becomes her lord, and together with his armies and her Divine Powers, they march on to subjugate the Lands Between. The Hornsent are left leaderless, their spiritual center defiled, and cursed Marika with a Fell Omen. When Marika discovered later this curse, she sent Messmer to finish the job.
P. S. I have no evidence for this, but I really like the idea that Marika used the Mimic Veil and her Shaman/Numen bloodline powers to pose as a Hornsent Queen. That's how she seduced Godfrey and the Hornsent/Grandmother, and the reason why her statues are headless.
This gives massive implications to something else I suspected for a while. Perhaps the reason Godfrey was sent away was so she could wage war on the hornsent without him interfering.
Wow this video was incredibly well done! Outstanding job. Hawkshaw made a similar video but you go much further into detail around all the Godrey stuff. Amazing video dude!
I love this theory! One more supporting piece of evidence - There's a very concrete reason he had to be so stoic and unwavering when accepting the sap. We can read from the Horned Warrior Helm item description: "Divine invocation bolsters the strength of the wearer, but causes the blessing of the Erdtree to become nauseating, reducing the restorative effect of drinking from a flask of sacred tears." So whatever kind of divine power warriors draw on when invoking beastly and horned type powers, conflicts with Erdtree blessings. This is why the item description of the Lord's Bestowal is in awe of Godfrey's unflinching acceptance of Erdtree sap. It was not only a struggle of identity to give up Hoarah Loux, but literally a physical struggle too.
In vers 1.00 it is stated that the Crucible Knights were given their armor and armaments by Marika herself. I wonder when they were given their Crucible accoutrements. Was it when Godfrey entered through the arch of triumph to partake of the Scadutree blessings or was it later?
This would pose a question , why would crucible knights be his personal knights and devonia search for the origin of the crucible if godfrey was part of the people of the tower ? The video implies that they are part of his culture too , which i don't think is the case
The implication is that the crucible knights are a later/newer group of people, after Godfrey and the Hornsent lore, that were touched by the crucible. Godfrey, in his - at the time - crucible-tolerated Golden Order, would then accept these misshapen people and knight them. That’s why the knights are all scattered come the shattering. They are a newer people who don’t understand the origin of their condition. They were never part of Godfrey’s culture. If they were, then they would’ve been betrayed and abandoned by Godfrey himself by the time Marika ascended. Instead, these are newer people - who have nothing to do with the Hornsent - that Godfrey had sympathy for. Another example would be his treatment of the Hornsent compared to his horned children: he handled the Hornsent for Marika’s personal matters, and not because of their horns, because later in the timeline he still had sympathy for his horned children - who had nothing to do with Marika’s peoples’ purge. As such, the Crucible Knights were allowed to live alongside his era (at the time) because they weren’t Hornsent, and Hornsent were a specific case for being abandoned. Hornsent were never attacked for their horns, it was for their allegiance/treatment of Marika’s people. Crucible knights did nothing to Marika’s people, and so for a long while - before Marika began her global extermination - they were allowed to fight alongside Godfrey Elden Ring also does a good job with character placement in explaining their history in the world. For example, both Miquella and Devonia are traversing the Shadow Lands to find “answers,” suggesting both of them weren’t involved in its state and had no idea of its existence earlier, making the Crucible Knights and Miquella later in the timeline. Conversely, characters like Godfrey and the Hornsent had much more to do with the state of the Shadow Lands, as such - opposite to Miquella and Devonia - they DONT seek answers in the Shadow Lands. Another tangible example would be the NPCs. Leda used to be unaware of the Shadow Lands, hencewhy her motives are intrinsically tied to Miquella - and miquella, as stated earlier, is seeking answers of the unknown. Then you have the Hornsent NPC, whose motives ARENT tied to Miquella’s answers, but rather the revenge for his people, and he feels personally attacked for the actions of Marika - and as such, since he seeks no answer, he originated in the Realm of Shadows completely uninterested in the machinations of the Lordship and Godhood of the Hornsent, because he likely already knew about them Sorry for the long yap. But also, albeit a less concrete factual reason, thematically speaking it would add onto the pile of the MANY of reasons why Radahn was always fit and fated to become their Lord if Godfrey/tower folk theory is true
The Crucible is an ancient, primordial metaphysical force. Just because the hornsent and tower folk revere it doesn’t mean they have a perfect understanding of where it came from or all its ins and outs.
The tower folk have been worshipping the Crucible however they have no knowledge of where it exactly came from. As the one having understanding of crucible would be the people of Rau ruins as they are older than the hornset folk.
when Waterloo subjucated the Lion and became Guthrie and when devine bird warrior Wholeness subjucated the Stormhawk King, it truly inspired me to subjucate the weights to buff myself up
Great video! Didn’t know about the names connections with the arch of real life! Also, your funny as hell for the captions lol Your English is easily understood but the captions make it better
As soon as you mentioned the highland armor while on the topic of Hoarah Loux it hit me immediately. We already knew he wasn't the original lord of Stormveil, that Stormveil was essentially supplanted sometime after he fought the storm lord. For highland warriors there is no act more glorious than the subjugation of a savage beast... like the storm lord.
@@rafsandomierz5313 lightning and storms are both abilities of the dragons, but the dancing lion talisman says that, the lightning and the storms are wielded by the dancers as they are messengers of the sky, From that we can say that anyone "divine" enough can wield lightning if they get to live close to the heavens, like farum, enir or the jagged peak. So yeah, the storm lord must have come from one of these places, most likely enir illim
Some of this timeline stuff between Horoah Lux and the Divine Bird are iffy considering how old Rauh is and how old Lux is but even removing that this is some REALLY solid speculation. Most of these threads meld harmoniously.
This actually explains why Morgot and Mogh share similar features to the hornsent. The possibility of Godfrey was once being a hornsent makes absolute sense.
I wonder if him loosing horns is because of Marika placing him in a different body, like Miquella did with Radahann. Or is it simply because of the dew she gave him.
Did you ever notice the Hawk Crest Wooden Shield? Item description references the long forgotten crest of Sotrmveil, shows a gold hawk with likeness to Ornis.
It does seem to be a recurring theme in Elden Ring: the separation from, repression of or confrontation of one's shadow, and the consequences thereof ('shadow' as interpreted in Jungian psychology). The Marika/Radagon symmetry also seems related to the concepts of animus and anima. Alchemical concepts, which Jung was also interested in, seem very present in ER.
Good lore video, thanks! First I’ve seen of yours. If I may offer an opinion though…the descriptions you plugged in unfolding in time with you reading the description was a bit frustrating, please consider saving some time and just posting the screenshot of the item descriptions
Thank you man , i think i’ve understood , hoara loux walked throught the arch Took the tree sap consumed it , and afterwards he became godfrey was grafted with serosh ,and also grow to an enormous size thanks to the tree sap ...
I like this alot, it explains why Godfrey never felt betrayed by Marika after being stripped of Grace to some extent. I speculate that Godfrey knew from the very beginning that Marika would eventually strip him of Gold
I think thematically the story of Godfrey parallels the way warrior cultures "civilized" themselves in appearance once they established an empire... but the underlying barbarism and lust for violence and conquest remained.
Despite my issues with the incorrect subtitles, this was a great take. -It explains the arch -it explains Godfrey's origins -It explains why Godfrey's children with Marika were both omens (although you didn't mention that) +This would also show a connection between why Morgot's horns disappear when he's defeated & the obvious question of "does this mean Horah Loux had horns at one point?" -It really helps build a solid timeline It does raise a few questions on Nephelli's timeline & why she doesn't have horns though.
It does pose a question of when Marika's war against the Hornsent began, and who the Lord of the Hornsent was. Marika was a God to them even before her betrayal, she was already their queen. Did Godfrey join before or after the war, or did he recuse himself from it. His influence on Mesmers army is clear as day, but his mention would be far more prominent if he took part, which he clearly did not. Marika after all does tolerate the crucible knights, so what if Godfrey was the key to the shadow lands and Mesmer being banished. A truce for an obedient Lord. Thinking about it, actually it could be Godfrey that was their Lord, explains the influence over the army and the invasion of the Hornsent may not have been as hasty as it seems. The Golden Order was already a strong religion and a force to be reckoned with under Marika, she could have just waited for Godfrey to conquer everything else until banishing him and destroying the Hornsent. I don't think these question are important to Fromsoft who made a story about hatred and revenge, but they are fun to think about.
That Marika's discussion is very similar to Miquella's plot and Radahn's defeat, but Miquella tried to kill Radahn, and then put Radahn's soul in Mogh's body.
We learn that part of the ritual to become a god reuires an elden lord pouring his power into a vessel (who is implied to be the god). And we learn that Marika's oldest children were actually from Radagon, not Godfrey who was only taken as Elden Lord AFTER Marika had become a god. This would imply that Radagon was the first true elden lord, could explain how he and Marika became the same person, and why after the Golden Order's age of conquest ended she sent Godfrey away and took Radagon back. Perhaps Godfrey needed to take the sap to equal the power of an Elden lord after being taken as Marika's consort because she needed a powerful warrior/general for her conquest plans, and he wasn't a true elden lord at all.
@@G4meplus just speculation but I think why Godfrey is related to bear is because of Japanese wrestling and the fact that Khabib Nurmagomedov (originally a wrestler) trained with bears in his early years
To me, the seduction was also to the hornsent themselves. Keep in mind that Marika, before founding the golden order and being chosen by the greater will, was a shaman of no renown. Even with the powers of the greater will by her side, i find it hard that she could have rose to prominence si easily. After all, according to the lamenter's gaol, the hornsent at one point (probably in secret) REJECTED divinity, considering it to be illeggittimate. So, why the hell wuold they willingly give power to a hornless woman who promised them the elden ring? The answer could be in three things we find: first, thr fact that furled horns were considered a sign of divinity in hornsent culture. Secondly, the mimic veil, which allows to someone to change their appearence. Note that it is also known as "Marika's mischief". Third: the statue we find in the specimen storehouse which reppresents a feminine figure, dressed and posed exactly as how we find Marika, except she has furled horns. Putting this togheder, we can assume that Marika came to the hornsent as a woman with furled horns, promising them the elden ring, the total controll of the world. So they raised Marika to their queen, whom instructed them to build the divine gate, unaware of its actual purpose. In the meantime, she seduced Godfrey, who being a hornless probably was a bit looked down upon in hornsent society, despite his status. Further more, judging by Nepheli Loux, in seems that the highanders, and by extention Godfrey, had a solid sense of justice. So they had something in common: they were both hornless, and saw hornsent society as unjust. However, right before the genocide of the hornsent, Godfrey objected, thinking it was unfair that innocents were also getting killed. In realiation, Marika banished him and all those loyal to him outside the lands between.
Another similarly between Godfrey and the hornsent are their braids. Kitetales has a video on the braids. It's definitely worth a check and adds to your theory as well! Great job!
This is an incredible video that grounded a lot of information and helped me really get to understand some of the points that seemed wacky. Why do you think Godfrey was willing to help Marika in the first place?
I think the Hornsent knew full well who Radagon was. He (probably, check hammer) led a rebellion, failed and was imprisoned in a Hornsent gaol, and then became a high quality ingredient, mixed in a jar with Marika! And later on, while Marika was "stealing" Godfrey, her other half may have been busy having an affair with the Gloam Eyed Queen, giving birth to Marika's stolen-ish children, Messmer and Melina.
Might there be a Divine Serpent that Marika tamed? Perhaps that is what she draws from the serpent-esque body in the DLC trailer; the power of a serpent spirit similar to Serosh and the Stormhawk King. Messmer and Rykard may have gained their serpents simply through inhertance. It ties in with the eternity symbol of a serpent biting its own tail and Marika being 'the eternal', it has ties with serpents being liars/trickers in Christianity, and being creatures that shed their skin it has ties with metamorphosis.
The only reason Godfrey doesnt have horns is because the grace of gold melted them away a long time ago just like they do for Morgott after he sacrifices himself to defend the erdtree. Godfrey has already done and proved his devotion to it, so his horns fell off long ago.
Id just like to offer an observation. The subtitles you provide in the video sometimes don't match what you are saying, especially with the names of characters. However, the youtube closed captions feature actually nail everything perfectly. To my amazement, it knows the names of elden ring characters.
Super interesting theories about the connections of beasts and the hornsent. I had a question though, the description on the elden lord armor says that Godfrey faced the Storm Lord, alone. Do you believe the Storm Lord is a different being than the Storm Hawk King? Was just curious because of your divine bird theory being tamed.
Personally before the DLC I interpreted the "stormlord" as Placidusax himself, I believe this is evident heavily by environmental storytelling in farum azula. We can find crucible knights there, sometimes they fight the beasts and one of them is standing on top a beheaded dead dragon also the entire city seems like it was going through a war. So i believe Godfrey personally lead a campaign against the previous capital (we know that Godfrey lead the crucible knights personally) in that context the stormlord would be referring to Placidusax as he resided in the storm outside time. This theory had a hole though, Godfrey is incredibly strong but he is no match for prime Placidusax I believe (before the DLC i though he was the one responsible for the dragon lord decapitated heads). After the DLC and the revelation about Bayle, the dread I think this theory becomes much stronger, Godfrey fought Placidusax after he was wounded by Bayle so it seems more logical now and it if it was Placidusax it would explain why it's celebrated and mentioned on the Elden lord armor as Placidusax was a previous lord.
@G4meplus Makes a ton of sense to me. I love the theory that Placidusax is the Storm Lord mentioned that Godfrey faced. Would make a lot of sense that Marika would use Godfrey to conquer every single last threat to her kingdom and The Golden Order, including the previous elden lord who was injured by Bayle and possibly even after the meteor hit Faram Azula to start the crumbling process. Really good stuff!
I'm thinking Ornis taming the Storm Hawk King made him the Storm Lord. His crash to earth was getting power bombed by Godfrey lol. Placidusax is in a storm beyond time, but otherwise seems to have no other relationship to storms or Stormveil castle. Godfrey facing the storm lord alone sounds like a challenge for leadership, maybe that is how he became the chieftain.
@@G4meplus It could be that the Stormlord was Serosh. We know Godfrey didst fight Serosh, and from the lion dancer performances it would seem the divine beasts were adept in controlling wind which would make it apt to name him the Stormlord.
He cooked with this video love the Godfrey connections I didn’t pick up on this definitely thought about the crucible but not Godfrey as much I love this lore! The red bear armor set description is totally Horah loux
What’s your opinion on the video by kixsicks that came out recently that says that Godfrey is a Kaiden? I think it fit with ur ideas here very well and also lifted some other aspects
Why aren't more people covering this!!! It's one of the central images in the game, but it doesn't do much to overtly tell the story once there. Been wanting to hear ideas.
Hopefully you are doing well and enjoyed the video ❤
Apologies for the horribly generated captions, I added manual captions so please use that.
They're comical, never correct them, I love it :)
"It was radical."
I can’t stop thinking about parallels between the golden spirit of Serosh on Godfrey’s back and the golden spirit of Miquella on Radahn’s back
Man, you had me at the Charles Godfrey observation, but when you showed the huge similarities between the Red Bears attacks and Hoarah Loux's, my jaw dropped. Can't believe I never noticed this.
I think that the greatest beast that Hoarah Loux tamed was not Serosh, but himself.
I think you are spot on about the greatest beast that was tamed being Hoarah Loux.
It my mind Hoarah Loux subjugated Serosh, Marika then subjugated Hoarah and they made the persona of Godfrey.
An argument could be made that Hoarah "subjegates" himself, by mastering and controlling his bloodlust, the ultimate act of self control.
I also believe there is a link between the shaman's flesh that would "meld harmoniously", and Serosh being put upon Hoarah Loux's back, and the later grotesque Grafting of Godrick.
Why Hoarah would be able to meld with Serosh is kind of beyond me though, as I ascribed Godrick's grafting abilities to come through Marika through Godfrey's and Marikas union.
Unless Hoarah's links to the Crucible are what allows this fusion.
I really like this philosophical argument, they both subjugated each other in a way.
It's certainly telling that one of the first things he does when he becomes Horoah Loux again is unleash a huge roar.
This makes me wish that after the Godfrey fight at the end of the game, once Godfrey removes serosh from his back, that perhaps serosh would then find himself back in enir elim as a secret boss fight or something.
Would've been sick.
Best, reasonable idea I've heard in awhile
Bruh Serosh giga died
Messmer’s soldiers not only look like the axe talisman depiction and leather crown, but they do the ground stomp like Godfrey and his crucible knights.
Awesome video man, people aren't talking about Godfrey's importance in the DLC enough. And thanks for giving the chalice a satisfying explanation. Lords Bestowal Talisman always seemed curious to me
I agree, they really aren’t. That’s a big reason I felt a huge wave of pride when I had an epiphany about my own video, heheheh.
the highlander crown made it click for me, funnily enough
Even in my first playthrough I always found it interesting that Hoarah Loux never actually used any type of punching attacks.
All of his hand attacks or open, with his fingers curled as if ready to slash or grab.
And then of course, there are his grab attacks.
“Now I fight as Horah Loux, (horned) Warrior!”
I wish Fromsoft made a post-ending DLC in the Badlands now
I started out skeptical, but yeah there’s something here. Rugalea’s Roar gives another clue - it’s compared to “a divine invocation of the Hornsent”. And of course this beast is right next to where you get the Highland armor, and it fights exactly like Hoarah Loux down to the ground-burst attacks. And yeah, Godfrey’s strong connection to the Crucible strongly associates him with the Hornsent.
I wonder if that confirms that Mogh/Morgott predate Godwyn and Messmer.
I don’t even think Godwyn is Godfrey’s real son. I think he’s yet another secret pairing between Marika and Radagon. Radagon even uses “bolts” of “lightning” like it implies Godwyn used. Plus he was her “favourite”. Plus the mermaid tail his current form has comes from the Elden Beast’s fish tail. There are no Godfrey qualities
@@Garl_Vinlandwell Godwyn learned lightning through the Dragons if I’m not mistaken. So it makes even more sense that Godwyn is Godfrey’s son because if it is in Highland culture to subjugate beasts, Godwyn was able to subjugate Fortissax; which also dates him to before the birth of Morgot and Mohg because horns were seen as a blessing BEFORE the birth of the Erdtree and dragons ruled before that.
@@jujubeanz009 Dragons aren't beasts though, they're the old Gods
@@Garl_Vinland that doesn’t mean they aren’t beasts, though. Placidusax was a Dragonlord that was Elden Lord before Godfrey. The game tells you that dragons are ancient beasts, not ancient gods.
The whole Bayle the Dread quest line explains that the ancient dragon communion was created to subjugate dragons and use their powers in ancient times SO Godwyn probably learned that and created a dragon communion for those powerful enough to use their abilities.
Damn, that's the seduction and betrayal, Marika married Hoarah Loux, the lord of the hornsents and changed him into Godfrey, then removed his grace and exiled him before destroying his people..
Even worse-she had him defeat all he enemies and THEN exiled him, do all her conquering for her and then kick him to the curb.
Yeah that seems like the best theory. Godfrey does seem to have a good relationship with his sons, so they were likely thrown into the sewers after he was banished.
I had a feeling Horrah Loux was that nameless hornsent hero, and was probably a Highlander, but I never noticed the similarities between his move set and that of the runebears!
The parallels to GoT make me wonder if the strumpet part is the grandam having the same realization that Ned had, how did a blond woman and a man of whatever hair color godfrey originally had, give birth to a redhead? My theory is that the grandam may have threatened to reveal this to godfrey, leading marika to exile him and order Messmers crusade to get vengeance.
Makes sense timeline wise.
I don't know, I think Godfrey marched alongside Messmer in his campaign. It's obvious to me that the foot soldiers were actually Godfrey's, as they use axes and the familiar stomp attack
This is a very good video. The Godfrey implications are not far-fetched and are both thematically and visually coherent. This is much better than many of the established lore videos available currently. Good job.
Thank you, glad you liked it ❤️
This is one of the better DLC lore videos I've watched.
The connection between Ornis and Godfrey is very compelling. I've been thinking of the importance of the hornsent as beast hunters.
Great job with the ceremonial crowning of Hoarah Loux to Godfrey. Especially with the Crucible Knights connection
Glad you enjoyed it ❤️
I think this theory may fit with my own that the scadutree was or is related to the crucible, and its current state is due to marika drawing on one half of its power, leaving the other to wither.
When you explore enur ilim, you encounter tablets showcasing a tree wrapped around itself. However, this tree is balanced, each wrapping around each other equally, whereas the scadutree has one trunk that is straight, and another that is constricting it, breaking its bark.
If the bowl that is beyond this arch was once used to collect the sap from the straight, "erdtree" half, i think i can connect it to another item. Devonia's hammer.
In devonia's hammer, we see a circle enshrouded by roots on the striking face, which is said to be molded in the shape of a "torrent of life". A torrent, or flow of life energy.
What do we see beyond the arch? I bowl, used to collect a flow of the very life essence of the erdtree, surrounded by roots.
This also mirrors horah louix's story. The tree had half of it suppressed, as did horah loux when he became godfrey.
As for the erdtree in leyendel? I believe it is nothing more than a larger version of the minor erdtree incantation, sustained by marika. Thats why as some point it stopped giving blessings, the erdtree half of the scadutree is being strangled to death by its other half, so its source of power is dying.
If we consider the spiral to be the primary elements of existence, life and death, and that the trees once existed in harmony, then it makes sense that the Scadutree is withering or strangling itself. Death cannot be sustained without life. The Shadowlands are the land of death, while Marika's overworld is the land of life, having removed the Rune of Death.
The opposite is also true, life cannot be sustained without death, which could be why Marika failed and the physical Erdtree no longer exists. The spiraling crucible energy represents perfect balance to maintain the cycle of life and death.
There are multiple instances of lore stating the crucible was an early version of the Erdtree or that the Erdtree came from primordial crucible energy. You can see one representation of this at the 18:08 mark. The tree sprouts from a spiral pattern.
This also explains why the Erdtree itself is more of an "illusion" it's transparent like Melina's version of Minor Erdtree. But I also think the Erdtree was previously burned
I like this theory, but we do see depictions of the "Greattree" that don't have a spiral and just look like a regular tree. I wonder if the hornsent wanted to turn the Greattree into a spiral tree to create a strong crucible current by using the gate of divinity.
I’ve been curious about how Godfrey and Serosh fit into the dlc timeline. That definitely makes sense to me! Very thought provoking
Wait...so Godfrey might not have wavered to serve Marika because she subjugated the Elden BEAST. The game says multiple times how beasts are drawn to champions and to serve the being that is master of THE beast would be the ultimate honour.
Very satisfying way to tie these bits of scattered info together. It also never occurred to me until now, but Serosh is the only other beast we see aside from Torrent able to assume a spectral form, and given the specimen storehouse had Torrent-looking beasts within it, it ties the idea that Serosh, StormHawk, etc. may have all been the divine spirits/beasts the Hornsent worshipped after all.
Malekith is also worshipped and has position of beast clergyman in farum azula.
Possibly Eigaly the Serpent too
Happy to see another supporting the Godfrey being of the Tower folk and seduced by Marika.
The movesets of the divine warriors reflecting the crucible knights also is what led me to the assumption
Actually that's an interesting theory. We spent so much time learning Marika's history, but we never stopped to ask who Godfrey really was before Marika's ascension, the only thing we knew was that he was a warrior with an insatiable thirst for battle
But isn't he confirmed to be from the badlands
@@kwamemwangs2173 He got to badlands after he became the first lord of Marika and got exiled from Lands between before Lurian wars.
After his exile from Lands between he moved and adopted another title chieftain of the badlands but he isn't from there.
@@kwamemwangs2173 I believe the "Badlands" was the Limgrave/Weeping Penninsula region
it has all the geographical and weather features of a Badlands.
also to support the theory is Godfrey embodies aspects of the crucible and leads the crucible knights. He doesn't wield inhuman physiology but he does wield the unbridled strength of the crucible which is why he's so strong and creates fissures and erupts the ground like an earthquake. The crucible knights and the divine warriors of the tower all share similar attack styles, using powers of the crucible, and high poise damage. it's possible the crucible knights were Godfrey's personal envoy always and that the most elite would become divine warriors of the tower.
in fact i think Godfrey's conquest of castle morne was during this time and the revenger was possibly an enemy hornsent clan member who's clan was killed by the tower folk as we know they also purged Midra's Manse so there was likely petty conflicts within hornsent culture....reason being that the revenger is said to be from a land long vanished which we now know is the shadowlands.
That was the entire basis of my own big theory video, heheheh.
So many things suddenly make so much sense, very well done with the video. I wonder if Godfrey being of/relating to the Hornsent could be how Morgott and Mohg both ended up as horned Omen
You completely sold me. This is your best theory on the channel, good job.
Thanks my friend, I also thinks it's my best so far.
I like it. One thing of note to possibly tie in your Godfrey soldiers working for mesmer theory is the suits orgins. The soldiers armor is clearly Roman and Celtic in origin. Lets start with the Roman side. there are 2 kinds of common roman armor. Lorica Segmentata or Lorica Hamata (Gallica). The latter is literally inspired by Gauls when Rome conquered the Celtics. The Celtics side of the armor actually lies within the main suit itself. The green cape with the chest shield is basically a one for one when you type "celtic chainmail" in google. Since Godfrey is Highlander and Mesmer is Roman inspired this was a cool detail I noticed as soon as I got to the shadow dlc. Great find
That's an awesome observation as well, glad you liked the video ❤️
Something I just noticed: the Highland Armor has two thin cloth wraps around the left arm. There is one other person who we often see with thin strips of cloth wrapped around her arms - Marika.
Each wrap is a symbol, as in some statues she has both, in some she has only one, and in some she has none. The arm wraps in the Highland Armor must bear some significance. If we know what the wrap on the left arm of Marika means, then we might discover what the two wraps on the left arm of the Highland Armor mean, and what that means for Godfrey.
This is amazing! Eveything just clicked. It's worth noting that the Scadutree WAS (and is still really a part of) the Erdtree before the Shadowlands were sealed. So, the chalice was originally a vessel for the Erdtree's sap. It might be obvious, but it's important to emphasize.
@@raymondcaswell5622 Maybe earlier it was used to collect Erdtree's sap, but now only the Scadutree's dry fragments.
Wow, very interesting. It will solidify that the timeline of the Crusade was after Godfrey's banishment but before Radagon married Marika. I assume that Godfrey would not be that chill if he knew that the hornsent will be purged, if he really was related to them. I am also in the camp that Marika being called a strumpet has a lot to do with her marrying Godfrey. It is likely that Marika not only hijack the ascension process, but also seduced Godfrey and made him the enforcing arm of her order. This is very possible as we know that Miquella has the ability to charm people and it is not crazy to think that Marika has some form of that ability as well, being that she is his mother and she would also have access to that power of the rune via the elden ring.
It doesn't solidify that. There's not enough proof or conjecture to make that a leading theory, and there's also a number of facts and conjecture that support a contradictory theory.
The coliseum's primary usage is set during Godfrey's time, before he was exiled. The coliseum duelists wear armor depicting snakes, and the lion mini-bosses we fight are incredibly similar to the lion divine beast of the Hornsent.
It's also a hard sell that Marika would have condoned Messmer's fire for so long after the war against the fire giants ended.
And most importantly, Morgott and Mohg are said to be of the golden lineage, presumed to be Godfrey's sons. They were born as Omen, afflicted by the curse of resentment from the Hornsent.
@@Deadgye The Grandam curse likely was for Marika's "betrayal and seduction" not the crusade itself. Maybe there were initial atrocities done by Marika, but those were not officially part of the crusade. Things of the Crucible were not outright hated after Marika ascended, it was a movement that grew in popularity after Godfrey was banished. Also, Messmer and Gaius were older brother figures to Radahn which would only happen if they were still in TLB. The omen twins were born before Radahn. Rellana's remembrance is in the nail in the coffin here. It would make no sense for Renalla to bless her sister's crusading if they are still enemies of the Golden Order. At the very least the Crusade happened before Radagon dumped Renalla.
@@Deadgye It's not a hard sell that's why she made a rune replacement for Mesmmer's eyes and gave him a rune so Mesmmer wouldn't be outright hated.
Eventually the base serpent managed to broke out of the seal, terrified citizens of Golden Order and so was sealed away in the crusade with other criminals that were within the forces of Golden Order.
Mesmmer was her favorite son like Morgott was favorite son of Godfrey.
Thats why morgott and mohg were born, they were part of the hornsent culture by their father hourah loux.
15:10 ok I’m convinced. You laid out your theory really well and tied it together nicely here
Another little detail tying Hoarah Loux to the Hornsent are his braids. His beard is braided and noticeably spiral-like, while the side and back of his hair share the same pattern. Hornsent culture revered spirals, and their divine tower is the apex of their beliefs. Hoarah Loux's name being changed to GODfrey, and his later offspring of Godwyn, Godrick, Godefroy, and perhaps other unknown children, all tie to the marriage with Marika, the one true God. Perhaps Morgott and Mohg were born before Marika ascended to godhood, their crucible features still being looked upon as divine, but after Marika became a God they would be hidden and shackled as nothing more than Omens. After supplanting whichever God stood before Marika, the golden lineage would come about, and each child of this newly formed era would take up the prefix "God" just like Godfrey and Marika's new position as God and Lord.
Godfrey is my favorite character so any video about him is great, but biases aside this seems very thorough and conclusive. Great job
☺️☺️☺️☺️
>Arc de Triomphe
>Waterloo
>Napolean
Welp, I've given up on trying to understand anything now.
The captions are just as entertaining as the video.
Lol, glad you enjoyed them 😂
Yeah, the video started quickly making more sense once I stopped reading them XD
Funnily enough, the UA-cam-generated captions are significantly more accurate 😅 though still not entirely perfect
So happy someone else saw the connections between the Stormlord and the divine bird warriors!
He took the sap “stoically” because it was nauseating to him, as the divine beast/bird armors reveal
This makes so much sense it all fits together so well and the GOT inspiration is something I completely forgot about great vid man
Thanks you, Glad you enjoyed.
Finally! More lore on Godfrey. I've been saying there is more to him that is crucial to the story. You never fail to deliver! 💪
Glad you enjoyed it ❤️
Amazing video. You brought up an interesting theory, tied in archeological and historical evidence, in game descriptions and context clues, and delivered it in a concise and well edited package, all while offering great insight into the character of Godfrey and surrounding lore of the DLC and base game. You’ve earned a sub and a share!
Thanks a lot my friend, welcome to the family ❤️
love this theory, dont know if i buy it fully but nice to see new theories that arent completly unhinged, on the contrary this quite grounded
gr8 job m8
One of the best lore vids ive seen in a while. I think this exposes a huge piece of the puzzle thats been missing in regards to the seduction and betrayal
The question I have is why Godfrey retained loyalty to Marika even after her betrayal by exiling him and his people to die. He comes back and fights the Tarnished as directed by her grace. A Tarnished that wasn't just one of Godfrey's loyal soldiers but also a fellow exile. I feel like there's so much story getting over looked about the army of Tarnished's origins and what they did outside the Lands Between, Godfrey includex.
I made an old video about Elden Ring and norse myth, in that video i went over the act of banishing the tarnished.
You may like that one.
Stockholm syndrome? lol idk good question!
@@bloodofphantoms That or she is a really good lover.
Hey Brotha! My compliments, since I saw that description in the talisman I ever wonder about the meaning, but until now I didn't find anything, thank you! (:
great work, interesting observation and findings
Dude seriously, you're up there with Tarnished Archeologist, Vaati and Quelag, you and TA might be my faves
Thanks a lot my friend, that made my day ❤️
This is so good. Deserves a million views
Awesome! This analysis has some massive implications for the trinity of Marika-Hoarah Loux-Hornsent Civilizations. We can see Marika's statues and stakes all across the Shadow Lands, implying that Marika was a prominent figure in Hornsent society at some point. If Hoarax Loux was also a revered champion of old, did Marika converted him, step by step, and shared her deep hatred for the Hornsent, the both of them devising a plan to enact vengeance? This is perfect considering the story trailer and the words of the Grandmother. Marika betrayed the Hornsent, having Godfrey and his Followers/Knights usurp Inir Elim, and claim the Gates of Ascendance for their own. Because even if both Marika and Godfrey were prominent figures, Inir Elim looks like a spiritual place that would be guarded by Crucible priests or something, so they would actually need to shed some blood to gain complete control of the Gates. Marika ascends, Godfrey becomes her lord, and together with his armies and her Divine Powers, they march on to subjugate the Lands Between. The Hornsent are left leaderless, their spiritual center defiled, and cursed Marika with a Fell Omen. When Marika discovered later this curse, she sent Messmer to finish the job.
P. S. I have no evidence for this, but I really like the idea that Marika used the Mimic Veil and her Shaman/Numen bloodline powers to pose as a Hornsent Queen. That's how she seduced Godfrey and the Hornsent/Grandmother, and the reason why her statues are headless.
Damn, that's some pretty fucking wonderful theory-crafting. I'm here for it.
This gives massive implications to something else I suspected for a while. Perhaps the reason Godfrey was sent away was so she could wage war on the hornsent without him interfering.
I am actually researching this idea more atm, great catch.
Wow this video was incredibly well done! Outstanding job. Hawkshaw made a similar video but you go much further into detail around all the Godrey stuff. Amazing video dude!
Glad you liked it, thank you ❤️
Nice one! Finally my own pieces of thoughts about this come together. ❤
I love this theory! One more supporting piece of evidence -
There's a very concrete reason he had to be so stoic and unwavering when accepting the sap. We can read from the Horned Warrior Helm item description:
"Divine invocation bolsters the strength of the wearer, but causes the blessing of the Erdtree to become nauseating, reducing the restorative effect of drinking from a flask of sacred tears."
So whatever kind of divine power warriors draw on when invoking beastly and horned type powers, conflicts with Erdtree blessings. This is why the item description of the Lord's Bestowal is in awe of Godfrey's unflinching acceptance of Erdtree sap. It was not only a struggle of identity to give up Hoarah Loux, but literally a physical struggle too.
Thank you for adding more enriching lore to my favorite Elden Ring character Godfrey/Hoarah Loux. He is even cooler in my eyes now.
Excellent video man, it was a constant mind blow haha, thanks!
In vers 1.00 it is stated that the Crucible Knights were given their armor and armaments by Marika herself. I wonder when they were given their Crucible accoutrements. Was it when Godfrey entered through the arch of triumph to partake of the Scadutree blessings or was it later?
I actually missed this one, will give it a look.
@@G4meplus I think it was stated on the Crucible shield. But I cannot remember for certain.
Finally someone speculating the talisman the moment I laid eyes on it I knew it held a mystery
This would pose a question , why would crucible knights be his personal knights and devonia search for the origin of the crucible if godfrey was part of the people of the tower ? The video implies that they are part of his culture too , which i don't think is the case
The implication is that the crucible knights are a later/newer group of people, after Godfrey and the Hornsent lore, that were touched by the crucible. Godfrey, in his - at the time - crucible-tolerated Golden Order, would then accept these misshapen people and knight them. That’s why the knights are all scattered come the shattering. They are a newer people who don’t understand the origin of their condition.
They were never part of Godfrey’s culture. If they were, then they would’ve been betrayed and abandoned by Godfrey himself by the time Marika ascended. Instead, these are newer people - who have nothing to do with the Hornsent - that Godfrey had sympathy for. Another example would be his treatment of the Hornsent compared to his horned children: he handled the Hornsent for Marika’s personal matters, and not because of their horns, because later in the timeline he still had sympathy for his horned children - who had nothing to do with Marika’s peoples’ purge. As such, the Crucible Knights were allowed to live alongside his era (at the time) because they weren’t Hornsent, and Hornsent were a specific case for being abandoned. Hornsent were never attacked for their horns, it was for their allegiance/treatment of Marika’s people. Crucible knights did nothing to Marika’s people, and so for a long while - before Marika began her global extermination - they were allowed to fight alongside Godfrey
Elden Ring also does a good job with character placement in explaining their history in the world. For example, both Miquella and Devonia are traversing the Shadow Lands to find “answers,” suggesting both of them weren’t involved in its state and had no idea of its existence earlier, making the Crucible Knights and Miquella later in the timeline. Conversely, characters like Godfrey and the Hornsent had much more to do with the state of the Shadow Lands, as such - opposite to Miquella and Devonia - they DONT seek answers in the Shadow Lands. Another tangible example would be the NPCs. Leda used to be unaware of the Shadow Lands, hencewhy her motives are intrinsically tied to Miquella - and miquella, as stated earlier, is seeking answers of the unknown. Then you have the Hornsent NPC, whose motives ARENT tied to Miquella’s answers, but rather the revenge for his people, and he feels personally attacked for the actions of Marika - and as such, since he seeks no answer, he originated in the Realm of Shadows completely uninterested in the machinations of the Lordship and Godhood of the Hornsent, because he likely already knew about them
Sorry for the long yap. But also, albeit a less concrete factual reason, thematically speaking it would add onto the pile of the MANY of reasons why Radahn was always fit and fated to become their Lord if Godfrey/tower folk theory is true
The Crucible is an ancient, primordial metaphysical force. Just because the hornsent and tower folk revere it doesn’t mean they have a perfect understanding of where it came from or all its ins and outs.
The tower folk have been worshipping the Crucible however they have no knowledge of where it exactly came from.
As the one having understanding of crucible would be the people of Rau ruins as they are older than the hornset folk.
when Waterloo subjucated the Lion and became Guthrie and when devine bird warrior Wholeness subjucated the Stormhawk King, it truly inspired me to subjucate the weights to buff myself up
I need to find myself a strong bit like America to make women like Horns Grand Dam jealous
😂😂😂😂😂
Great video!
Didn’t know about the names connections with the arch of real life!
Also, your funny as hell for the captions lol
Your English is easily understood but the captions make it better
Thanks a lot my friend ❤️
As soon as you mentioned the highland armor while on the topic of Hoarah Loux it hit me immediately. We already knew he wasn't the original lord of Stormveil, that Stormveil was essentially supplanted sometime after he fought the storm lord. For highland warriors there is no act more glorious than the subjugation of a savage beast... like the storm lord.
11:11 i was wondering if the lord of the storm was a man or a beast, but ornis fit in the storm lord description.
Interesting take.
Explains why Horn warriors use storm and lightning spells in their attacks.
@@rafsandomierz5313 lightning and storms are both abilities of the dragons, but the dancing lion talisman says that, the lightning and the storms are wielded by the dancers as they are messengers of the sky,
From that we can say that anyone "divine" enough can wield lightning if they get to live close to the heavens, like farum, enir or the jagged peak.
So yeah, the storm lord must have come from one of these places, most likely enir illim
Some of this timeline stuff between Horoah Lux and the Divine Bird are iffy considering how old Rauh is and how old Lux is but even removing that this is some REALLY solid speculation. Most of these threads meld harmoniously.
to me it looks like the chalice could fit atop/ inbetween the arc, to collect the sap, as the big branch, now withered, could have reached the ar
“Godefroy is the key to all of this” - Miyazaki, leaked behind the scenes footage
Hey you explained all these beasts reference better than all the other lore tubers who keeps barking up the wrong trees. great video!
This actually explains why Morgot and Mogh share similar features to the hornsent. The possibility of Godfrey was once being a hornsent makes absolute sense.
I wonder if him loosing horns is because of Marika placing him in a different body, like Miquella did with Radahann.
Or is it simply because of the dew she gave him.
Always love your work, some really good insights here!
Did you ever notice the Hawk Crest Wooden Shield? Item description references the long forgotten crest of Sotrmveil, shows a gold hawk with likeness to Ornis.
Great find, I will check it out.
It does seem to be a recurring theme in Elden Ring: the separation from, repression of or confrontation of one's shadow, and the consequences thereof ('shadow' as interpreted in Jungian psychology). The Marika/Radagon symmetry also seems related to the concepts of animus and anima. Alchemical concepts, which Jung was also interested in, seem very present in ER.
Good lore video, thanks!
First I’ve seen of yours. If I may offer an opinion though…the descriptions you plugged in unfolding in time with you reading the description was a bit frustrating, please consider saving some time and just posting the screenshot of the item descriptions
Thank you man , i think i’ve understood , hoara loux walked throught the arch Took the tree sap consumed it , and afterwards he became godfrey was grafted with serosh ,and also grow to an enormous size thanks to the tree sap ...
I like this alot, it explains why Godfrey never felt betrayed by Marika after being stripped of Grace to some extent. I speculate that Godfrey knew from the very beginning that Marika would eventually strip him of Gold
I think thematically the story of Godfrey parallels the way warrior cultures "civilized" themselves in appearance once they established an empire... but the underlying barbarism and lust for violence and conquest remained.
Beautiful catch on the Arc, dude.
Not sure if I missed this in the video, but the description on Godfrey's Crown says that he 'faced the Storm Lord, alone'.
The divine beast warriors also roar to invoke their power. Much like Godfrey with Regal Roar.
Godfrey’s 2nd phase roar is also similar to Rugalea’s, another bear boss we emcounter in the dlc.
True.
Despite my issues with the incorrect subtitles, this was a great take.
-It explains the arch
-it explains Godfrey's origins
-It explains why Godfrey's children with Marika were both omens (although you didn't mention that)
+This would also show a connection between why Morgot's horns disappear when he's defeated & the obvious question of "does this mean Horah Loux had horns at one point?"
-It really helps build a solid timeline
It does raise a few questions on Nephelli's timeline & why she doesn't have horns though.
Thanks a lot my friend, for the subtitles issue look at the pinned comment. Hopefully it didn't ruin the watching experience.
It does pose a question of when Marika's war against the Hornsent began, and who the Lord of the Hornsent was. Marika was a God to them even before her betrayal, she was already their queen.
Did Godfrey join before or after the war, or did he recuse himself from it. His influence on Mesmers army is clear as day, but his mention would be far more prominent if he took part, which he clearly did not. Marika after all does tolerate the crucible knights, so what if Godfrey was the key to the shadow lands and Mesmer being banished. A truce for an obedient Lord.
Thinking about it, actually it could be Godfrey that was their Lord, explains the influence over the army and the invasion of the Hornsent may not have been as hasty as it seems. The Golden Order was already a strong religion and a force to be reckoned with under Marika, she could have just waited for Godfrey to conquer everything else until banishing him and destroying the Hornsent.
I don't think these question are important to Fromsoft who made a story about hatred and revenge, but they are fun to think about.
With this, I now understand why both Morgott and Mohg are omens/hornsent. They are the sons of an ancient Divine Warrior of the horntsent.
That Marika's discussion is very similar to Miquella's plot and Radahn's defeat, but Miquella tried to kill Radahn, and then put Radahn's soul in Mogh's body.
We learn that part of the ritual to become a god reuires an elden lord pouring his power into a vessel (who is implied to be the god). And we learn that Marika's oldest children were actually from Radagon, not Godfrey who was only taken as Elden Lord AFTER Marika had become a god. This would imply that Radagon was the first true elden lord, could explain how he and Marika became the same person, and why after the Golden Order's age of conquest ended she sent Godfrey away and took Radagon back. Perhaps Godfrey needed to take the sap to equal the power of an Elden lord after being taken as Marika's consort because she needed a powerful warrior/general for her conquest plans, and he wasn't a true elden lord at all.
I would love to see your analysis on Commander Nial and the Banished Knights. Great video!
Glad you liked the video, will certainly put it on my list.
This video takes Godrick’s line “bear witness!” to the next level. Thank you.
True, great catch.
@@G4meplus just speculation but I think why Godfrey is related to bear is because of Japanese wrestling and the fact that Khabib Nurmagomedov (originally a wrestler) trained with bears in his early years
That's why Mohg and Morgott are omen, their father was Hornsent.
Great video, I like your editing style👍
To me, the seduction was also to the hornsent themselves.
Keep in mind that Marika, before founding the golden order and being chosen by the greater will, was a shaman of no renown. Even with the powers of the greater will by her side, i find it hard that she could have rose to prominence si easily. After all, according to the lamenter's gaol, the hornsent at one point (probably in secret) REJECTED divinity, considering it to be illeggittimate. So, why the hell wuold they willingly give power to a hornless woman who promised them the elden ring?
The answer could be in three things we find: first, thr fact that furled horns were considered a sign of divinity in hornsent culture. Secondly, the mimic veil, which allows to someone to change their appearence. Note that it is also known as "Marika's mischief". Third: the statue we find in the specimen storehouse which reppresents a feminine figure, dressed and posed exactly as how we find Marika, except she has furled horns.
Putting this togheder, we can assume that Marika came to the hornsent as a woman with furled horns, promising them the elden ring, the total controll of the world. So they raised Marika to their queen, whom instructed them to build the divine gate, unaware of its actual purpose. In the meantime, she seduced Godfrey, who being a hornless probably was a bit looked down upon in hornsent society, despite his status. Further more, judging by Nepheli Loux, in seems that the highanders, and by extention Godfrey, had a solid sense of justice. So they had something in common: they were both hornless, and saw hornsent society as unjust.
However, right before the genocide of the hornsent, Godfrey objected, thinking it was unfair that innocents were also getting killed.
In realiation, Marika banished him and all those loyal to him outside the lands between.
Another similarly between Godfrey and the hornsent are their braids. Kitetales has a video on the braids. It's definitely worth a check and adds to your theory as well! Great job!
I actually did watch that video, it's really cool.
@@G4meplus your theory and hers go hand in hand! 🤝
I'm blown away. That's certainly something to think about
This is an incredible video that grounded a lot of information and helped me really get to understand some of the points that seemed wacky. Why do you think Godfrey was willing to help Marika in the first place?
I think the Hornsent knew full well who Radagon was. He (probably, check hammer) led a rebellion, failed and was imprisoned in a Hornsent gaol, and then became a high quality ingredient, mixed in a jar with Marika! And later on, while Marika was "stealing" Godfrey, her other half may have been busy having an affair with the Gloam Eyed Queen, giving birth to Marika's stolen-ish children, Messmer and Melina.
Might there be a Divine Serpent that Marika tamed? Perhaps that is what she draws from the serpent-esque body in the DLC trailer; the power of a serpent spirit similar to Serosh and the Stormhawk King. Messmer and Rykard may have gained their serpents simply through inhertance. It ties in with the eternity symbol of a serpent biting its own tail and Marika being 'the eternal', it has ties with serpents being liars/trickers in Christianity, and being creatures that shed their skin it has ties with metamorphosis.
The only reason Godfrey doesnt have horns is because the grace of gold melted them away a long time ago just like they do for Morgott after he sacrifices himself to defend the erdtree. Godfrey has already done and proved his devotion to it, so his horns fell off long ago.
Id just like to offer an observation. The subtitles you provide in the video sometimes don't match what you are saying, especially with the names of characters. However, the youtube closed captions feature actually nail everything perfectly. To my amazement, it knows the names of elden ring characters.
Thanks for the comment my friend but, read my pinned comment and you will understand what happened.
Oh haha ok. Well to at least add something, Great video!
So good! keep it up!
Super interesting theories about the connections of beasts and the hornsent. I had a question though, the description on the elden lord armor says that Godfrey faced the Storm Lord, alone. Do you believe the Storm Lord is a different being than the Storm Hawk King? Was just curious because of your divine bird theory being tamed.
Personally before the DLC I interpreted the "stormlord" as Placidusax himself, I believe this is evident heavily by environmental storytelling in farum azula.
We can find crucible knights there, sometimes they fight the beasts and one of them is standing on top a beheaded dead dragon also the entire city seems like it was going through a war.
So i believe Godfrey personally lead a campaign against the previous capital (we know that Godfrey lead the crucible knights personally) in that context the stormlord would be referring to Placidusax as he resided in the storm outside time.
This theory had a hole though, Godfrey is incredibly strong but he is no match for prime Placidusax I believe (before the DLC i though he was the one responsible for the dragon lord decapitated heads).
After the DLC and the revelation about Bayle, the dread I think this theory becomes much stronger, Godfrey fought Placidusax after he was wounded by Bayle so it seems more logical now and it if it was Placidusax it would explain why it's celebrated and mentioned on the Elden lord armor as Placidusax was a previous lord.
@G4meplus Makes a ton of sense to me. I love the theory that Placidusax is the Storm Lord mentioned that Godfrey faced. Would make a lot of sense that Marika would use Godfrey to conquer every single last threat to her kingdom and The Golden Order, including the previous elden lord who was injured by Bayle and possibly even after the meteor hit Faram Azula to start the crumbling process. Really good stuff!
I'm thinking Ornis taming the Storm Hawk King made him the Storm Lord. His crash to earth was getting power bombed by Godfrey lol. Placidusax is in a storm beyond time, but otherwise seems to have no other relationship to storms or Stormveil castle. Godfrey facing the storm lord alone sounds like a challenge for leadership, maybe that is how he became the chieftain.
@@G4meplus It could be that the Stormlord was Serosh. We know Godfrey didst fight Serosh, and from the lion dancer performances it would seem the divine beasts were adept in controlling wind which would make it apt to name him the Stormlord.
great video!
Greatwork!!!!
He cooked with this video love the Godfrey connections I didn’t pick up on this definitely thought about the crucible but not Godfrey as much I love this lore! The red bear armor set description is totally Horah loux
GamePlus dropping gems!
definitely enjoyed this one and also kinda needed it
this lore gathering and stitching is on par to some of the best !
Glad you enjoyed it ❤️
great video, auto captions are funny 😅😅
What’s your opinion on the video by kixsicks that came out recently that says that Godfrey is a Kaiden? I think it fit with ur ideas here very well and also lifted some other aspects
It just dawned upon me how similar are the allegations regarding Marika seducing Hoarah Loux and Miquella likewise bewitching Radahn.
Excellent video!
Absolutely (glintstone)nailed it brother
Why aren't more people covering this!!! It's one of the central images in the game, but it doesn't do much to overtly tell the story once there. Been wanting to hear ideas.