Bringing Crota's End, King's Fall and Wrath of the Machine to Destiny 2
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
- Vault of Glass was revived from Destiny 1 and brought into Destiny 2 last year. This year, another raid will show up in Season 18. And the final two will show up during the final two expansions (I assume?). Let's learn from Vault of Glass and discuss how Bungie might end up bringing these fights forward and some of the things I'd like to see.
Vault of Glass - 0:00
Crota's End - 4:40
King's Fall - 13:28
Wrath of the Machine - 26:05
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King's Fall is going to be one hell of a flawless if it's brought back.
Meh
Just wait for master mode. 4 unstop light eater ogres and a anti Barrier knight on oryx
Tbh hope it’s not kings fall, it was only good the first time through everything else was a slogggggg
@@aurockson2696 That’s just you. I loved running through Kings Fall everytime.
@@Zerba- That sounds incredibly lame and boring
For Golgoroth, make whoever has the gaze can see a certain orb light up that allows you do the extra damage for sitting in the pool, if you shoot an orb that is not lit up, you don’t get the extra damage that you normally would, that way you can still hit all 6 orbs to do damage but you would only do optimal damage if you shot the orbs in the order that the two people taking gaze called out
Nice - that fits with the hidden information that needs communicating vibe that Bungie has incorporated into recent raids too.
this works with how bungie likes to design raid mechanics now as well, we have a lot of 1 person can see something someone else can't so doing something like this seams really plausible
another idea would be to have gazeholder see 3-4 orbs with a special glow on them where if they aren't shot down during a phase they wipe you by blowing up, similar to atraks-1 where you have to shoot the correct boss, this would require info sharing and while it could annoy people who like certain orders it seems the easiest way to make you do something other than 1-orb
Then they could also add that you could only capture Golgoroths gaze once in the fight making to where you only get 3 damage phases. 2 people capturing his gaze each phase.
What if the thing they had to grab was foresight and they use that to change mechanics like war priest and golgaroth where the one who has it can see things required from survive or so dps
The brevity of the Wrath section in this video just goes to show how tight that raid was from a design standpoint. I very much agree that there ain’t a whole lot to change about it. The zamboni encounter was fun af. I liked the idea of having to carry parts through a freaking war zone, taking turns in picking up each part and covering each other. Aksis was also very fun, and boyyy did I enjoy using Dark-Drinker on it. Something just fun in rushing in during damage phase, dropping a bubble, and SPIN TO WIN, BABY.
Concerning the other raids… well, Crota’s End, to be specific. Honestly? my least favorite. I’ve always thought that The Stills/lamp encounter section was the strongest part of that raid. There is such a frantic feel to it. You just gotta keep on moving and then hold it out on that last plate… the following encounters are kinda meh. I remember being particularly disappointed with Crota cause the dude just seemed to be a re-skinned hive knight but that aside, never cared much for the mechanics. Like, I get the idea of using the sword and having that hero moment. Hell, the music swells whenever someone picks up the sword. It’s the devs saying “it’s go time.” But as you said, there’s little for everyone else, so it’s not all that engaging in regards to team dynamics.
hard agree on wrath, its the least likely one for us to get a port of soon since its the only raid with an enemy type not already in the game, but its such a well-made raid that really does transcend the difference between d1 and d2, and i think it would be a fantastic addition to the current d2 raid lineup.
Wrath of the Machine was my first Destiny raid, I enjoyed it enough to continue playing Destiny and hoping for more
If wrath is brought back lament and well is going to trivialize axis damage
Have you ever tried thermite grenades and cluster bomb rockets? 10 times the damage of the balarina dps
The reason why I really enjoy the Oryx encounter is because he cant be killed super fast, he was the one boss in D1 that we couldnt burst down super fast like it was a joke. If you play with a dedicated team each weak I could see it being boring but playing with a bunch of randoms and having to pick up their slack, like light eater knights and having to ignite spread out bombs because inconsistent ogre kills(this was only really a thing if you did all 16 bombs at once) I definitely felt like I improved massively in the fight. The oryx fight was my favourite D1 raid encounter.
I would love to see a golgoroth encounter where you actually had to use all 6 orbs, I could see a mechanic where you get an increasing buff everytime you change taunt and each person gets locked out of taunting so all 6 people have to get taunt at some point. So lets say orbs last 30 seconds, golgoroth only opens his back 20 seconds after he is taunted so you can just spam all 6 people taunting him then do the one orb strat. Well I guess you could all stand up on the platform taunt back and forth for a few minutes then jump down for 1 orb but that would be so slow
I think there should’ve been a balance tho, wiping towards the end of oryx was a waste of 20 minutes
The oryx fight has the issue of every mechanic being an instawipe, so you waste 20 minutes after any mistake. If it was more forgiving I wouldn't mind the longer fight.
I honestly hate the oryx fight. It needs to be sped up somehow.
"Just reload one of them" 20:41
Killed me lmao
Me too
Something important to note about Crota's End is that with Dares of Eternity currently existing, the possible DPS phase for Crota involving killing knights and getting damage buffs that Datto mentions is already in D2. Perhaps Dares was a test to see if that sort of change would be viable for a potential rework to the Crota encounter should they add Crota's End back next season.
his fight has been in the game longer then that even... in the xpac that brought the moon back we actually had a small tidbit of the fight in the game.... id say all of the assets for crota's end are probably already in d2... the hardest one would probably be to bring back KF and the main reason why is because they would have to bring back the dreadnaught as we dont actively have any of it in the game currently... most of the other raids areas have been brought back in some degree....
It won't be Crota's End coming back next season anyways because Bungie has already said in an interview that they wanted to bring back "one of the big ones." Although I see what you're getting at with the Dares boss fight and I also think that would be an interesting change
@@d43m0n412 Nessus is currently near Saturn as seen on the destination screen, so they could just add Kings Fall to the Nessus map. Or they could slap it in the Legacy destination section with VoG and Prophecy.
I mean Venus is not a destination in D2 and we got VoG. So saying that it won't be KF because the Dreadnaught destination is not in the game is a mute argument.
I really don’t see how they could bring back crota’s end and actually make it feel like a raid. Maybe rework it a bit and just make it a dungeon instead .
@@jordanread5829 It isn't a moot point; adding assets, textures, etc. from a new destination increases the size of the game, which was a big reason Bungie wanted the DCV in the first place. Not to say they can't or won't, but by their own logic, it would be harder to bring back.
While Kings Fall was easily my personal favorite, I still hold that Wrath was (arguably) the best raid of D1. I wish I had an original thought that you haven't already covered to add to your video, but ultimately I'd be happy with either raid. The benefit to tackling KF over WoM is it would be a "fresher" experience. More would change, hopefully for the better, and you hit the sentimental demographic of the long time players much harder.
The raids are apart by a year. You hit that same demographic just as hard. It's not like VoG and Leviathan or something.
@@virulenthunter3017 I don't know how it translates to the majority but I'd say around half of the people I know who played D1 and now play D2 took a break during year 3. Grinded Taken King hard for 2-3 months, had an absolute blast, after having our fill moving to other things until a new release. RoI pre-Wrath was a bit lacking compared to Taken King and people enjoyed it but didn't stick. Off topic but typing this it just hit me that D1 nostalgia in general is probably so strong because the initial few months were incredible and back then people didn't mind taking a break in content droughts. So D2's problems didn't have the time to show up when you only playing around 1/3 of the year.
Wrath was the best executed D1 raid. Kings Fall was the best for scale and the culmination of our effort to take down Oryx, having to tear through literally his entire court to kill him.
The only real problems people have with KF was the bugs and the fact you can't speed up the final encounter. Most of the bugs were in the final encounter too. The rest of the raid up to that point is a masterpiece. KF and Wrath of the Machine are peak raids.
4:19 that "guardian down" brought me way back
I want Wrath of the Machine back because I typically cite it as my favorite raid over Last Wish and I want to see how it holds up in this sandbox. I haven’t played it in quite a while and I hope I’m not blinded by nostalgia. It was also the first raid I did blind with my friends.
I know KF is the likely candidate for return this year, but i hope it's Wrath
Wrath is a raid that i really don't see much work being needed to port it over (except for the fact that it would need an entirely new exotic, since we already have Outbreak in D2), it would also be a nice break from all the Hive themed stuff we've had since season of the lost
I 3 man wraths so i hope they bring it back
Agree, for me WoTM is/was the pinnacle of raiding in destiny. The raid that perfected raiding in destiny
I went back and did a 3 man WoTM about 6 months ago, had an absolute blast. Way more fun than damn near any raid I've done in D2
@@Spike2276 IMO kf is a much better raid mechanically and story wise it makes sense.
I've been dying for Wrath to come back since VOG was first announced, really hoping they do it sooner than later
Same, plus so many ppl want Siva to make a crazy return and I’m pretty sure if they played their cards right with the two, they could make a pretty fun and interesting season
@@Dev2n I Don't see how siva could come back, we destroyed the replicator chamber and pretty much finished it.
@@ronan5228 yeah I understand, won’t stop the tons of ppl I see who want siva to come back stay quiet tho :p
@@ronan5228 there are batches of SIVA on every exodus ship that left earth before the collapse. 1 of them is in Titan, another one is in Nessus, aboard the Exodus Black, which was assaulted and scavenged by fallen. The story threads are there, ready to be used. That would also give people a reason to visit Nessus. They could focus a season there with an outbreak of siva from the ship being tampered with by fallen, especially now that Rasputin is temporarily out of the picture and not in control. Hell, they could roll everything into one and make it the season where we have to make an exo body for Rasputin to bring him back in order to help us contain the outbreak of uncontrolled SIVA.
@@ronan5228 there’s always a way to justify narratively but SIVA as it existed really seems like it’d be difficult to have it as anything but a one-off since it’s pretty much an all or nothing threat
16:40 I think the idea of him gaining more powers depending on which totem he destroyed could be really fun, especially if bungie makes them actually deadly and not like a not factor like in D1. I could see a situation where teams decide which plate they want to hide behind so they can have the war priest get whatever power they find easiest to deal with. If bungie really wants to go above and beyond they can make the powers more unique where a certain build or ability synergy is very adapt at dealing with it, not just slap down or well or bubble to survive.
That’s be awesome, great idea-even something as simple as giving his hp match-game properties (one totem buffs arc while solar/stasis/void are debuffed, etc.) would be more engaging
Completely agree, even better if the totems are destroyed in a random order!
He actually did get powers depending on the totem, they were just very simple. One Totem gave him the Taken Hobgoblin darts, the other gave him the Taken Centurion seekers, and I think the last one gave him Taken Knight Fire, but nobody every got that far.
@@thevoidlord1796 hobgoblin seekers was the left one iirc. far right totem gave the captain darkness, middle was the centurion seeker, and left was the hobgoblin bolts. (might be confusing middle and left)
@@Ahnock yeah right one definitely gave him the captain ability because I remember everyone would always hide behind right pillar first as the captain ability was easier to deal with than the other two lol
For the Crota boss fight I could def see them implementing a mechinic where the players without the sword would need to do something in order to keep the light buff active, alongside having the light biff be more needed.
Yeah. Didn’t everyone else just blow crota away with rocket launchers?
@@fornodes2704 originally that was how you downed him. in d1, only the relic could damage crota but crota would instakill anyone who got near him, so the other 5 people would break his shield with damage in order for him to drop for the relic holder to damage him. in d2 theres been a few reappearances of crota, from his nightmare to dares of eternity, and i think he was handled a lot better in dares by having the relic do the damage, but have acolytes periodically spawn that when killed by non-relic holders, would give a buff to the team that increases damage done to crota and regens the relic sword ammo. if he was brought back they would probably do something like that where, once crota is downed, acolytes would spawn in the middle that if killed by the group, would increase the relic dps.
Hmmmmm... only if there was a massive green ball in the sky to preoccupy the non sword players...
Even tho one person could destroy the oversoul on their own, they could change it to require some sort of mechanic to damage the oversoul. For example after people down crota, a player or 2 needs to go to the bottom area (where you spawn for ir yut) and needs to kill an enemy to lower the oversoul’s shield. I feel like one of crotas main good points was that the encounter was soloable, this would make the solo a bit more difficult while still doable aswell.
King’s Fall was such a well thought out raid mechanic wise that I don’t think much should change. Wrath of the Machine was was the most balanced and fun raid in my opinion. Crota’s End either needs to be completely overhauled or just turn it into a dungeon.
You didn’t even have time to watch the video tet
Yeah lmao 😂
Ehhhh, I wouldn’t go that far. King’s Fall is great but VERY flawed.
Crota really does not need that much. Self rez broke the 2nd phase, they just need to patch a couple glitches
nah Kings fall needs be played at like 2x speed up until warpriest
I’m honestly really hoping when they return the other raids they don’t leave behind loot like they did with VoG. It really feels cheap to me, and while the VoG weapons they left weren’t the most memorable, who’s to say more important weapons won’t return. Imagine if Wrath returned without Ex-Machina, Chaos Dogma, etc
For me it's Quantiplasm. Battlerunner was such a fun perk and I LOVE the slightly more realistic shotgun model. Hunger of Crota was a classic too, at least for me, since I never got a ghorn to drop until late House of Wolves.
For real. I was excited to get Praetorian Foil when VoG returned, only to find it not available...
same, I was really looking forward to getting Atheon's Epilogue and Praedyth's Timepiece only to find them both unavailable
@@Bidniss. I sure hope they return Battlerunner as a perk. One of Tractor Cannon's perks is basically Battlerunner and I love it for that. (No, Killing Wind doesn't count since the mobility stat buff isn't actually a substantial movement speed buff.)
I thought we would get those other weapons as kind of a refresh later to VoG. surprised they haven’t come yet
Aksis is definitely one of my most favorite encounters too. I also loved how the music synced with the encounter, especially the big crescendo when the wipe happens and you're standing on the plates outside. That whole encounter is something I really can't wait to play in D2.
for Crota, the sword relic could break after each damage phase, leaving a debuff that doesn't allow that player to pick up the next sword (this could be on a timer, or last until some condition is complete),
merely musing: this could switch it up, where d1 Crota was the only soloable raid in Destiny, D2 Crota could be the only raid where 6 players are necessary.
the challenge mode in crota was that you couldnt pick up a sword again after you used it
D2 Crota isn't the only raid where 6 players are necessary. Lots of D2 raids have been designed around having not-low-man numbers. You literally needed 5 people to do Spire of stars because of the plates. You needed 5 players to start the Baths encounter of Leviathan, although the raid is technically doable with less than 5. You also needed to have 5 players in Eater of worlds for the beginning jumping puzzle, with the 5th person having to jump back and forth between the 5th and 6th plates I believe.
I really don't see a problem with them keeping Crota the same. There's already plenty of D2 raid mechanics that LFG Lords like to hoard for themselves because they don't trust anybody else to do it. *shrug*
@@WiseSam95 5≠6
Crota's end is still possibly my favourite raid and in no small part due to the amount of fun I've had soloing it. I hope it remains possible (but obviously challenging) to solo it if it's brought to D2
Or! Here me out, the turn Crota into a dungeon and bring King’s Fall as a raid the week after.
I can’t imagine it’ll be Wrath since they’d have to add in the Devil Splicer’s which is more effort than I think they’d like. We’ll get it eventually I’m sure, but probably not until SIVA returns elsewhere so that the enemy type doesn’t exist solely for one activity. King’s Fall on the other hand is just Taken and Hive, with the mechanics needing little to no change for current standards, as opposed to Crota’s End which uh… Yeah it’ll need some changes.
i feel the moths were just them testing it, plus the first wq mission had the siege engine carrying mechanic
Use the meditate-thingy by ikora or a vex-door to go back in time. Or watch the siva return in lightfall
They have the resources from the original. They would need some freshening, but it's not as much work as you think.
@@Tokfaaan hints at a Rasputin themed season coming up at some point, and SIVA was sent out with a lot of colony ships so...very possible that wherever this stronghold is could have a decent tie-in for it.
@@jamesmonteith8617 its actually a lot of work, dont understand why all gamers think that game design is CTRL-C CTRL-V
for golgoroth, make golgoroth heal after losing his gaze for an amount based on remaining orbs. great punishment for not going full orb buster
THAT is an IDIOTIC Idea.
That forces a "my way or the highway" approach from Bungie and makes it boring and annoying.
Its so neat you still have your footage of the first run of vog
22:30 have a timer on the tablet of ruin, where every like 45 seconds it gains a stack. If you break an orb it will immediately reset that timer. Once the timer has gone for 5 minutes (assuming we are going on the 45 second timer, this timer just needs to be slightly less than the overall time that the totem would go per orb reset to be fair to the players), the encounter resets, and you get time to get ready before the new set of six times appear. Basically the same as warpreist timer but with the whole group involved and a little less punishing
The thing with making Crota's End a dungeon is that if they were to do that, then they would have to make it soloable. Unlike raids, every dungeon is purposefully made to be soloable, so making Crota's a dungeon wouldn't be as simple as, "Just lower the player count to three people." So what we have here is a situation where they would either need to dumb down the mechanics to make it soloable in dungeon form, or they would have to ramp up the mechanics/difficulty to turn it into a true raid.
(And yes I realize that you could solo Crota's in D1, but that was thanks to cheese. I'm talking about making each encounter PURPOSEFULLY soloable like each dungeon has done before)
they should definitely turn it into a true raid
The only one you need to change is the Bridge. Every other encounter can be solo’d without cheesing.
Bridge could have the totems have some object above them you shoot to “calm” the totem. This just means the player needs to shoot the objects while building the bridge to keep from being killed.
The objective could be to get three swords to the opposite side.
@@kasm7870 don't even need to change it that hard, just add a buffer to each totem so that when you leave they stay "calm" for a long enough period that you can activate all three
The only thing that needed to be cheesed for the solo in D1 was the bridge. You could legit kill Crota solo without cheesing him.
honestly.... i think crota's would be a cool dungeon to do... and the main reason why most people would say it would make a better dungeon then a reissued raid is just the length... a good team would just plow right through it in like 20-30 mins which by todays standards of raids/dungeons would make the length of the thing in question more similar to the dungeons of today more then raids...
I could see them letting multiple people have swords in the crota encounter with say only 2 people staying back while a fuckton of enemies start spawning between them and crota.
Imagine it like those scenes where the hero group is running and cutting through a massive swarm of enemies where then you have the ranged support guy(s) break the main defenses at the right time
For Golgoroth, use the Last Wish and Vow mechanic of calling a specific person out in the chat. When an orb drops, the game calls for a person and that person alone can do damage in that pool (or maybe like 2 or 3 names could be called, but I like 1). If you knock down the orb, your name can’t be called so that will keep the taunters in their place. Ramp up the ads and cursed thrall times ~5 so every other person’s job is to protect the damage dealer while helping with orbs and taunting if need be. If someone misses their orb or another orb isn’t shot down quick enough, they all disappear and light up the totem. Unless 1 person can deal enough damage to kill Golgy, this would ensure that all or almost all orbs need to be shot down, the taunt mechanic would be preserved and vital for the fight, and everyone would have a job to do while getting their hero moment, and it would allow teams to use as many orbs as they want while also requiring every member to stay on their toes to be ready to solo damage
Edited: wanted to add this - a timer would determine when every remaining orb would disappear and light up the totem. Every time an orb drops, the called upon person would have 5 seconds to enter their orb or it’s a wipe. Once entered, everyone (or maybe just the damage dealer) would get a buff timer called like “Empowerment Draining” (or since we’re dealing with specific names the buff could pertain to that person and be called like “Datto’s Empowerment”). I’m thinking this buff lasts about 10-11 seconds. Once the buff runs out, damage is over and all remaining orbs disappear and light up the totem which has 6-7 ish lights on it. If another orb is shot down before the 10 seconds are up, the buff and timer are extended. This means that getting through all 6 orbs wouldn’t add anything to your totem. Add in a 3 or 4 damage phase enrage mechanic and boom bye bye one orb strat
Also, I wonder if there’s any other D1 encounters that could benefit from having only one person do damage at a time since we’ve never seen an encounter like that? I think doing damage once at a time would really really help give people “hero moments”
This is a fantastic idea.
could do something like having the orbs increase the damage, where you break the orbs and damage the boss in the puddle until he "breaks," and you have to move to another puddle, and after you either run out of orbs and have max stacks, or you miss an orb and it begins dps early, you then gather as a group to do dps as a team.
people get locked out from taking the gaze once theyve taken it already, so each person would take gaze so another would be able to clear a bubble for the buff stack. could even do something like requiring you to be in a puddle to shoot at golgoroths back to get his gaze, requiring people on opposite sides of him to pair up to grab gaze/damage him.
Had to add to this: a timer would determine when every remaining orb would disappear and light up the totem. Every time an orb drops, the called upon person would have 5 seconds to enter their orb or it’s a wipe. Once entered, everyone (or maybe just the damage dealer) would get a buff timer called like “Empowerment Draining” (or since we’re dealing with specific names the buff could pertain to that person and be called like “Datto’s Empowerment”). I’m thinking this buff lasts about 10-11 seconds. Once the buff runs out, all remaining orbs disappear and light up the totem. Deaths no longer light up the totem, and it has 6-7 ish lights on it. If another orb is shot down before the 10 seconds is up, the buff and timer are extended. This means that getting through all 6 orbs wouldn’t add anything to your totem. Add in a 3 or 4 damage phase enrage mechanic and boom bye bye one orb strat
I loved the warpriest encounter, one of my favourite memories was doing challenge for first time and i was last alive juggling extending the buff and just killing him in time
For Golgroth couldn’t you make 4 orbs and everyone has to stand in one by themselves, so you have to taunt and let one person do damage at a time and it shifts away from stand in a well and dps like they want?
I like the idea of something like that. Everyone takes turns damaging while everyone else keeps adds off of them.
Or shoot the 4 orbs down but only one of them is active at a time, then the team has to rotate to the active one (maybe the orb that activates is random?) like in the Calus fight in Leviathan. Or it could be like the CAP mechanic in Scourge of the Past, where you only get the damage buff if you're standing in the right area. Or maybe Bungie will change it in an entirely different way.
ooh could be something like CAP from scourge, each person has to stand in their own bubble otherwise theyll damage the people near them. could bring back the cursed light debuff from hard mode and give it to everyone on the team instead of just one person to keep the group separated.
For golgoroth, some type mechanic like with taniks can be implemented to reward the players for their extra work. Like they do something faster or better they get the one orb high damage as a reward similar to how banking all 4 cores will give you three damage phases on taniks
I've run VoG almost every week since it dropped in D2. I could definitely see myself doing that with KF. I would have a hard time getting excited about Crota's End unless it changed dramatically. Wrath was good - I just have a soft spot in my heart for KF.
Love that Lord High Fixer you're using Datto, I hope they bring iconic weapons like that back as well!
I agree with everything you said except Oryx, (my favorite encounter). I like the idea of guardians NOT being able to deal damage to oryx because it shows that he is so powerful. He's so powerful not even our light can damage him at all. We have to use his own taken power (The blight bombs) against him. Its like we're giving him a taste of his own medicine and i would like that to stay intact.
There is absolutely no reason to change that encounter. It’s everything rolled into one. Teamwork communication and everybody needs to do their fkn job. People always wanna speed up shit this or cheese that. If it ain’t broke don’t fuk with it
Seeing the darkblade titan helm made me realize how awesome d1 was at letting you wear your enemies armor like those titan cabal gauntlets
It boggles my mind that Bungie got rid of that for the most part, it just reminds me how much better strikes were in D1, strike scoring, more modifiers (and the modifiers themselves were more fun), and strike specific loot was so damn good.
well, they added a lot of enemy themed armor, but I get what you say, those trophy pieces like the 3 armor for each class from forsaken really just add, like imagine having the tusked allegiance armor and those titan maulers
remember how bad it was using the last word with those things? lol
@@manfromhamaslume yes lmao
Thank you Datto. It brings to mind a key point.
If one of these raids (probably *Kings Fall)* releases in *Season 18 around August- Early November 2022),* then another raid (probably *Wrath of the Machine)* will be out in *Season 22 around August-November 2023.* Good for the folks like myself who missed D1's most mechanical sound raid.
After *Final Shape in 2024,* I don't think they'll be thinking about what can be brought back apart from maybe *Scourge of the Past* or an *altered Leviathan raid variant,* or a reprisal of some smaller content in D2 that could re-release. We'll see.
Love the Dinklage "Guardian Down" during the VOG Atheon part.
30+ minute Datto video, what a good morning
22:30 An idea i have for this problem: What if instead of a pool it becomes a pick up buff, allowing only 1 person to grab it and do dps, when the buff fades you get a debuff preventing you from picking up the next buff. This would force ppl to take as many orbs as possible for maximum dps. the only problem is that with current golgeroth hp, this damage phase might take long. of course they can just decrease his health pool.
Or perhaps in a specific order like how the revelation door opening mechanics work in witch queen. You have to pick up the buffs in a specific order to get 4x buff to open the door. Or do max damage to golgy in this case
But that would let everyone be able to pick up the buf as long as they do the pickup in the right order
no they wouldnt have to if every consecutive buff gave a bigger damage increase... like say a small multiplier like first buff is x1, then the second is like x1.25, etc.
Really couldn’t agree more. Great video. The ideals for Crota’s end are amazing
I would like to see the raid that comes back have a change in paths. Like how the zero hour base mission having a different path from the heroic mission. While still keeping the big encounters locations I think it would be fun to see the d1 path be blocked or noticeably changed so that we had to do something else to advance. Maybe for Crotas end there could be different motifs because both the scarlet keep (red hive architecture) and lucent hive (white hive architecture) tried to resurrect crota using his throne.
With Golgoroth orbs, have it so all of the orbs lock up when you break one, and health gate the boss into six parts. Have the orbs unlock again when you either run out of pool time, or hit a health gate. Make it so that the tablet of ruin has LESS slots instead of more, and if you don't break an orb within a certain amount of time for the next damage phase, it always lights up one rune, regardless of how many pools you used, or how many you didn't. Then just add a time-wasting mechanic where the orbs don't unlock until you do certain thing. The fastest strat will become using all 6 orbs in a row to kill him, and doing anything else would slow down the fight.
For Crota's opening encounter, I'd love right at the end to be suppressed, and have a dozen unstoppable champions spawn in just before you got to leave. Seeing a champion has spawned completely fill the chat as well as losing your powers would be really fun, and would make the dash for the finish slightly more interesting
Imagine seeing 10 messages of "unstoppable ogre activated thundercrash" right as the bridge spawns
2:00 wow the green fanatic pools looked so much better
One thing about kings fall, if I’m remembering correctly by the time age of triumphs came around everyone was using the 6 orb distraction strat anyway. The one orb was a much more safe but much slower option for damage and by then it was about efficiency not playing it safe
I used to jump on lfg and sherpa Wrath hard mode. I agree with you completely, change nothing other than enemy health and actually give me proper hard mode. Hero moments in Aksis were a big thing
What I'm saying hero moments were one of the best parts in that raid especially juggling cannons
spot on for golgoroth
Watching these old D1 raid clears in the background are making me so nostalgic... not just to D1 but everything that was happening in my life at that time.
For me the crota raid was never as difficult as vog in a random group but I loved the vibe and all of the weapons. There was always someone wanting to cheese the bridge and always the gally or kick groups but It's very nostalgic for me as I hunted for those boney weapons and the parts for the necrocaszim for ages
Hopefully, if anything changes in D2 for Wrath is find a way to make the raid quest work. We already have outbreak and so we'll need to see what they do for the monitors and such.
New way for the catalyst? Or probably an ornament...
@@Amirifiz you can get them from random drops I think, so I'd say it'd be better for us to get Aksis' sick ass gun as an exotic
@The Leaprachaun Just give us the Bee gun from Terraria, but replace the Bees woth Siva nanites.
Boom, profit
@@bepisaxe4464 like a trace rifle, but instead of a beam it's just a nanite flamethrower?
@@Ahnock that sounds fucking awesome
I love when you make these long videos, im starting to think you should just do a podcast lol
He talks about these kinda things a lot in his streams since the chat frequently asks him questions like this lol
For crota to mix it up they could make it so u break his shield with the sword but then do damage as a team with guns. They could make it so he does like a crazy ground slam after breaking his shield to put the sword holder in a tought spot. This would keep a similar feeling but also be more in tune with D2. I have yet to figure out new mechanics other than this to be added.
For golgi, they could give a buff for 2 (random?) players to be able to leave the pit during damage phase and no one else be able to without dying. That way those two players can taunt while the rest damage. He can be more Argo to those in the pit unless taunted or have a short timer for the two out of the pit to have to shoot him before timer ends to prevent ending the damage phase. Timer resets after they have shot him. Maybe have the timer start as each orb is dropped. There are definitely ways without it being too overly complicated or too difficult to make.
Should have oryx replaced with massive taniks
God shut up man fr
Wrath is arguably the best raid in the series (I still prefer LW but that’s personal) but it requires so much work to port compared to the others, I’d want it tho
While your raid preferences are your own and thats completely fine. Why do you think Wrath would be harder to port outside of character models vs kingsfall?
@@legionivfelix I remember them mentioning in a Vidoc or a raid along some time ago that they had to really spaghetti code some stuff to get the entire raid in one activity without it crashing. So they probably wouldnt be able to lift and shift it as easily as KF. But I think they could still pull it off, I miss Wrath it was cool.
@@legionivfelix Siva enemies generally.
Primarily creating the Siva seeker that comes out of headshots, giving us back the Siva variations of certain enemies that do change how they function on a base level like the Siva Servitor, along with the more unconventionally designed Siege Engine encounter and the guns are more complex to port as they were specifically made with static rolls and funnily enough “enhanced perks” a great example being Ex Machina, it worked specifically with the perk Wait for It, which for context reloads your gun much faster when empty, and it’s upgraded perk it goes to go along with it adds an extra round into the mag if you have an empty mag. The guns worked as almost mini exotics with their unique functions, unlike KF guns which just had auto loading holster.
I think imo KF is better, although it definitely needs to be made easier, it was too long and too easy. My personal fav is also KF but I think LW and WotM tie for second for differing reasons. After that my personal pref is levi (too easy unfortunately tho) and then VoW and GoS and then VoG DSC and Croat
@@roguegamer1173 Yeah, I can definitely see that. Was genuinely curious. I loved the scout rifle from that raid. Chaos dogma I believe. Wrath had some very relevant weapons, compared to kingsfall (which kingsfall was my favorite for difficulty reasons) but the only weapon that stands out is touch of malice. The other weapons we very underwhelming to my memory.
I think Crota’s end just full stop needs 1 more boss. VOG had Templar and Atheon and that’s the raid CE is most similar to. The bridge section can be fix by doing 2 things:
1. You can’t bones of eo sword fly across the chasm
2. The bridge has 3 plates/annihilator totems on each side of the bridge as long as 3 plates on one side have someone standing on it the bridge forms.
From there the bridge section has a sword bearer you kill and walk across the bridge and a blue knight (we called them paladins) to kill. Once the paladin is killed place your relic sword in the rune totems by the door. Once 6 relic swords are placed in the totems the door opens. If 5 players cross the bridge and one dies alone on the other side you can take a relic sword out of a totem and cross the bridge back safely.
As for the new boss right after you open the door to the bridge there a room with a door in front of you and a thrall way to the left. Devs should just block off the thrallway and open the door we see as we walk in. In there there’s a big Ole shrieker with shields to break. You have swordbearers that spawn to give you a relic sword.
The first phase of the fight you kill a sword bearer then do the ranged sword slash to break the shields then you have your first damage phase.
The second phase the Shrieker starts firing rapid fire and you have to kill a sword bearer get the relic and block the rapid fire shots back at it to break the shield. You then have your second damage phase.
The third damage phase the shrieker fires the axion darts the slow floating orbs. If you get hit you get debuffed you have to go somewhere to cleanse before a timer runs out or you die. You kill a sword bearer put up a relic and sword swing at these darts imagine your playing baseball and you’re trying to hit the shrieker with the balls. Finally once that’s done the shield breaks and everyone gets the debuff and that’s how long the team has to kill the boss or everyone wipes.
For Crota, I wonder how it would feel if they brought a mechanic into the final fight similar to the shield mechanic in VoG. Once you do a damage phase with it, you have a debuff that makes you unable to pick up the sword next time (or something similar) so that it can't be just one person doing the whole thing.
I really wish they would bring back Wrath. Me and my clan mates went back and played WotM recently, and man, even with the rose colored glasses on we were all still blown away and loved it. I can only continue to pray. Siva and the splicer fallen deserve a place back in the game too.
Wrath and kings fall were my most played raids in d1, wrath being my favourite.
For Crota you could make it so each player can only hold his sword once or similar. This means each player has to do this part during the encounter.
that is literally crota challenge mode.
another thing to note is in d2 we have many more ways of movement which would make the lamp encounter in crota, the orb encounter in oryx, the ship parkour in oryx, and the moving thingy on the bridge in axis (i forgot what it’s called) much easier to maneuver and speed thru. we have many more and faster ways of movement in d2 that they would have to rly change these encounters, or give a debuff
In Crota for everyone to feel like the hero, everyone needs a crucial role. Perhaps the chalice could be made more relic like, allowing one person to take on a focused support/healer role, being the hero that keeps the team alive. sword bearer can remain similar as the one who manages to damage Crota. Perhaps for the remaining 4, 2 teams of 2 could go to either tower in order to secure it for damage phase. This could fulfill the fantasy of you and a buddy fighting for your lives, back to back moving up into the tower and once arriving at the top, one person from each tower could be given 1 of 2 matching buffs similar to Ghalran allowing the powers of one person from each tower to combine in order to break Crota's shield. The remaining person in each tower could then be faced with a challenge to keep their partner defended and alive from hordes of enemies as they break the shield. Structuring the encounter this way while taking focus off of individual damage output, makes each member of the team a crucial contributor to the encounter as if one person falters, the plan crumbles. the chalice bearer has the flexibility to supplement the weakest portion of the team while having a crucial role. I think that this combined with a more weapon DPS focused Ir Yut would go a long way in making Crota's end feel like a full raid.
Crota's end was such an iconic raid. I know it gets a lot of jokes saying nowadays it would just be a long strike or a average dungeon.
But the atmosphere and the experience was unbelievable.
It was the only raid that one or two people on the team could be the superhero, and the weaker players could kind of hang back.
Now raids tend to involve everybody at all times.
Even though the "superhero" element of this raid is its weakness,
I feel it's also it's biggest strength!
I want kings fall back, it was n it will always be my fav
Reminscing about D1 with Datto is my favorite content.
also for Golgoroth maybe the pools give less dmg buff when there are more people in it, so we can try one phase with one orb per or something along that lines , and we can have a last stand bit with one last pool with everyone in it, i think this way may give people an option to do it in diffrent ways
I feel as though King's Fall is most likely to come back, for several reasons.
Firstly, there's already in-world reasons that it could come back, such as Oryx possibly being alive, the Dreadnaught is still there, and that the Hive are being focused on a ton recently.
I feel that Crota's end isn't coming back because of just how different it'd have to be. It'd be essentially a completely different raid, which I feel would not connect well with how it's a "returning raid" feel.
Wrath of the Machine could feasibly come back but is not nearly as likely as King's Fall. We already have a ton of reasons that it shouldn't/wouldn't come back. Such as the replication chamber being out-right destroyed, and how Bungie has been trying to steer the community away from SIVA.
Now, with raid exotics, this is another reason I think that Wrath isn't as likely as King's Fall coming back. Even with Crota's End there's an exotic, but we already have access to the exotic from Wrath, making it unlikely to return. Obviously with King's Fall there's the Touch of Malice, making it likely to come back, and with Crota's End there's Nechrochasm.
All in all, I think that King's Fall is most likely to return as it has in-world reasons it could. However, with the other raids there is very little justification, like Crota's End, just because that the Moon is a destination, or Wrath, with zero basis on it's return.
Along with the fact that King's Fall has an exotic that can return, being Touch of Malice, gives it points as well. Crota's end has Nechrocasm, however may work better as a quest exotic/dungeon drop. But Wrath has none, meaning one of the legendaries could become an exotic (Like Chaos Dogma), or a new one could be made, however due to this I think that makes it less likely than Kings Fall.
Finally, an extra reason I don't think it's Wrath (at least not this year, maybe next) is that there is no Siva-related fallen to my knowledge, making it much, much less likely for it to return. (Still more than Crota's End imo because Crota's End would have to be completely re-worked and re-tooled to become a viable raid to Bungie.)
I believe Bungie hinted that it wasn’t going to be Crota’s End.
Also Crota's End would actually make more sense as a dungeon in D2 than as a raid.
@@223Drone True
And something I just realized; King's Fall already has a lot of team-based mechanics.
I thought they would’ve brought back leviathan with this season. Personally I really enjoyed leviathan, but thought the underbelly/castellum could use some work. I also think the leviathan weapons with the new perks and random rolls as well as maybe a new paint job matching the dungeon weapons would be sick. I’d kill for an updated midnight coup 😂😭
Agreed. People seem to hate that raid for some reason. I personally really enjoyed it, specially the gauntlet and callus encounters.
i hated that they removed the leviathan over other more useless pieces of content early on in the games life span... honestly... one of my favorite raids to this day right next to KF...
Id say for gorgoroth keep the one orb strat relatively the same but give everyone a debuf so they have to taut him to remove it or die when the time runs out and then ad a wizard or something that if left alive for a bit they will focus gorgoroths attention and he will start attacking the closest player to him
the totem encounter could have a slowly stacing or scaling with progress, debuff that scales down resistance/regen, if we deal to much damage, make us take enough damage
would also be cool since it would help put certain exotics on the table that don't get a lot of love (lumina for example)
golgoroth could have a mechanic to open up his crit spot in the first two orbs (maybe similar to the nightmare-enemies that are red and immune without the right buff)
Hot take alert: remove the chalice from crota fight, but keep Regen disabled. Between healing rifts, solar 3.0, crimson, oem, and unrelenting, there's more than enough healing to supplement
Doesnt make it challanging, just creates loadout requirments. Forcing people to pass a relic/buff to heal forces people to stand near eachother in an encounter where hive boomers were the most deadly threat. I could see them blocking us out of the first room and the small side halls so boomers can always shoot at us and we are forced to be where the thrall spawn. Also makes the chalice stupid important as everyone would be taking some splash damage at tge very least and no safe zone to hold out and chalice trade.
Letting us heal at all outside of the chalice is actually making the whole ordeal even easier than it ever was.
bungie wont do that. cause then people are expecting someone to be a healer and bungie has already said they wont force sub-classes in raids.
Really hope that Wrath will come back, complete with the Devil Splicers
a way to solve dropping all 6 golgoroth orbs to avoid punishment: the taunters gaze buff also allows them to see the next orb to shoot at random (falling back on that translation of information you mentioned in VOG) shoot the wrong orb, youre punished/wipe. keeps things open while punishing hastiness.
For golg add crits like rhulk. 2 are damage-able per orb. Last orbs doesn’t have crits and you deal extra damage for each crit broken
I really hope it's Kings Fall, I want my Rhino titan helmet😌
Shark*
Kings fall. The season artifact looks like the spinning circle in the touch of malice. Very similar.
@@eclipsingshadows5421 cool.
Seeing that titan in gold VOG armor and a helm of Saint 14 in the thrallway clip just gave me serious nostalgia for some reason
In regards to one orb, you can have the orbs be linked to champions, and the orbs stack for more damage amp. How to draw out the encounter would be to flood the pit with adds so that you can’t just stay in the pit. Maybe a strong knight that roams or something similar.
I would be so happy to see Wrath Of The Machine come back, definitely my favorite raid even after playing Last Wish
I’d love to see the crota into kings fall mega raid be what comes back. I think that would be amazing.
I hope it’s wrath as it is the best D1 raid by far. I’d love to see the weapons return too. But I don’t think it will happen simply because of the splicers and possibly having to make a new raid exotic.
4:20 Dang the feels.
I haven't done many of the D2 raids, since I took a long break, but I would love to see Wrath back. That was probably my favourite raid.
I would love wrath of the machine to come back and that introduces a possible Siva darkness subclass in the future.
Unfortunately SIVA wouldn't be a darkness subclass. SIVA it self is not paracausal in power, much like the powers of Light and Dark, just advanced micro technology. The closest we will most likely ever get to "SIVA Power" is us using the Outbreak Perfected, which is already in D2. Neat idea, would never happen though. Much more likely, per the darkness painting in Rhulks pyramid, we should expect something yellow. Due to recent leaks, a green subclass is rumored to be the next subclass (I'm hesitant to say poison), and a mural shows 3 "medals" colors blue, green, and gold (stasis, poison, and mystery 3rd class, maybe time-based?).
I'm hoping kings fall will look awsome
I’m hoping they just don’t bring back kings fall
@@bgd-grey8847 I perfure long raids over short raids I hope lightfall give us a 5 encounter raid
@@catsgame9282 I also like long raids, I just hate the oryx fight
@@bgd-grey8847 ok could lightfall give us a long raid like last wish or kings fall
@@bgd-grey8847 Best Destiny Raid. By far.
Ive never done the crotas end raid, but they could do something like they did in Dares of Eternity when we fought crotas aspect, where the more special acolytes you killed, you got a stacking damage buff, and gave everyone a chance for a sword, or maybe the acolytes are immune to the sword, and the other players have to kill the acolytes
Been a solo player since the launch of D1. Met some new friends in uni who played D2 and they took me through VoG for the first time a few months ago. Cant wait to play these raids that i missed out on before.
Could see Crota's opening section getting an immune knight from the Nightmare Forest if Bungie wanted to make it actually challenging
I was just thinking the same thing
Yes both should come back BUT as cherry on the cake and NOT as cake self aka main content for a season / addon.
I’m late on this but for golgy they could do something like scourge, where you have the CAP strat going on because you can damage each other by near someone with the wrong buff
On the Crota bridge encounter: It also doesn't help that we have aspects like Heat Rises and sword/well skating makes it a difficult fight to reprise. There would have to be some kind of instant kill barrier to prevent cheese.
24:45 Good prediction
My favorite boss encounter by a lot is Oryx because of the “git gud” nature of it. It’s not the hardest encounter by far, but learning the mechanics of the fight is a must to complete it. I’ll exploit cheese strats for sure, but I don’t like them because I didn’t really get an experience after the fact (looking at you, Riven). So yeah, Kings Fall is my favorite raid of all time
For Golgoroth, maybe have a mechanic where you have to taunt the boss under an orb and then shoot the orb and have it land on the boss to do damage. Have some orbs in locations where its easy to get the boss to stand, and other where its harder. Each orb has a damage multiplier and the harder to reach orbs have the most multiplier active.
For Golgoroth maybe you can have a final stand phase that consumes all the remaining orbs which gives small portions of his health back or decreases the timer that the final stand lasts for
Possibly for crota, having there be hive that drop extra relics like hive boomers or ogre eyes that require 3 people to damage crota at the same time to break the shield for sword damage.
Like the golgoroth update ideas and the pools… my suggestion, re the pools and avoiding the one orb strat. Golgy spawns shields when the orb is spawned, arc, solar and void… when all have been triggered, then you have a damage phase with damage buff
For the crotas end bridge encounter give one person a buff on the spawn side of the bridge, either randomly or through a plate or something. If the buff carrier dies then the team wipes. Only the buffed player can cross the bridge. The buff can be aquired by the next person in line when the player who crossed the bridge kills their knight or something.
For Golgoroth a good way to knock out the 1 orb, is to give a small stacking damage buff akin to force of will from leviathan, that only stacks when a player standing in an orb damages golgoroth. So players can choose to spam him with sweet business and cerberus for the first few orbs to build up a massive buff, or hold down whisper the whole way through. Has the added bonus of making primary exotics better, a full outbreak/ratking squad would shred
for golgy you could have something like scanner in dsc and you have to kill the 6 orbs in order in a certain time frame going from one to the next, if you run out of time say on the 3rd one you would get 3x of whatever damage buff for that pool, and if you get all 6 the 6th pool would have give the most damage, you could also have it so only one person can shoot each orb or it kills the player with 2x orb kills to make it require 6 people
My take on the Golgoroth issue. It’s not so much that it was bad having 1-orb strat, my regular raid group would usually do multiple orbs to maximise damage, but 1-orb was always the same orb, specifically in that bottom left corner. So, I have a few proposed ideas that *could* fix this issue.
Smaller fix idea which I think needs to be there regardless of the next suggestion, move the ad spawn doors from bottom left and right way closer. The reason those spots were so used was because they were insanely safe. With WoR now in the game, those spots become havens for players to camp that single orb until it’s run it’s course.
My main suggestion is probably the least popular one, damage gates. Not like caretaker, a different type. For example, dropping an orb only allows you to take off a 1/6 of health, if that’s what you go for. But if you drop say 3 orbs, you have the potential to deal 1/2 health. Not a guarantee, but a chance.
An additional way to combat this being exploited by dropping all orbs and then just sitting in one pool, would be that orbs spawn randomly and periodically throughout the fight. The strategy would be drop the first orb, get some damage while stun team hold taunt. Then the next orb spawns, and one of the stun guys shoots it down and directs the team to its position. This would mean that taunt team would have to communicate and relocate to expose gorgy’s weak spot, and DPS would have to relocate to get in more damage.
This suggestion doesn’t ‘fix’ 1-orb, you can still do it, but the fight becomes really slow. If you want to play the classic way, no problem, but it turns the fight into a slog. Efficient teams though would hop between pools to maximise damage. It adds more communication to the encounter, but retains player agency to play it the way they remember, or adapt to the better strategy.
For Crota you could make people have to rotate the sword between members like you have to rotate the shield between members during the portal encounter of vault
For Golgoroth you could make it so orbs don't respawn and like L0udNUrFace stated have the person who has gaze call out which orb to shoot for damage.
For Oryx I'd change the damage from being done by bombs to when you're doing damage in the rumble dome to have a similar fight as Rhulk. After all 6 teammates have been teleported a darkness debuff could start ticking down a taken captain would spawn holding the taken relic and picking it up and cleansing would take you back out of the rumble dome.
For Golgoroth: Similar to your idea, just have it where you get a 6x damage buff for standing in a pool, and it reduces by one per extra player in the pool. Ideally the 6 players are then spread out and constantly taunting Golgoroth to avoid the onslaught of attacks
For Golgoroth, the latter pools could last less and less which would promote using your dps ammo in the earliest phases as well as motivate teams to run a mix of sustained and burst dps options. Sustained for the start, burst for the end.
Your idea about the monitors in vosik is actually really fucking good I like that idea a lot!
For golgoroth I suggest similar to DSC somewhere in the room an enemy will spawn with a buff that displays an orb differently to the others and shooting the wrong orb either wipes, counts as 2 on the totem you suggested, or heals the boss / increases the damage the boss does. The person with the buff is the only person able to damage the orbs and drops the buff when stepping into the orbs radius so therefor is also responsible for golgoroth taunting or you could make it so the buff member can't damage golgoroth so can't damage his back forcing the buff to be passed to somebody else with a kill timer giving a buff the party need to juggle in order to deal damage and preventing one orb strat too easily (hopefully)