This dungeon didnt feel like a glorified strike i felt like a raid designed for 3 people and felt intese the entire way through big props to bungo on this one
Basically what a dungeon should be? I am fine with Root of Nightmares being the way it is, it is relatively simple for mechanics so it can get you adjusted to doing more difficult mechanics. Like we dont have Leviathan, Spite of Stars, etc from Red War where you got introduced to D2 raiding with fun and good mechanics. Not every raid needs to be Last Wish levels of mechanics or DSC. People need to dip their toes in something that can prepare them.
@@shatteredakuma That’s a valid point. Wrath was a short raid and had simple mechanics, same with deep stone. Why is it a problem when it comes to Ron?
@@Brian-wp9er because we already have an easy raid with VoG, RoN being accessible was a mistake because now every shitter who doesn't do mechanics wants to do ad clear all the time
@@Brian-wp9er wrath is fun, ron is not. the problem with ron is that its not even comparable to dsc and wrath with how simple it is. youre doing wrath a disservice by putting it in the same tier as ron. the conversation is so much more nuanced than "theyre both short". raids are supposed to be the endgame, the rest of the game should be the entry point to raids, not a raid itself. thats why dudes take is retarded
Uh, sorry, but...what's the correlation? I don't see one besides the vague connection between the oceanic theme and the pirate theme, but that's loose at best.
The underwater mechanics implemented into the dungeon are some of my favorite mechanics in any raid/dungeon. Also, this is 100% one of the best looking environments in the entire game
@@Borderlesscott mainly talking about the 2nd encounter where the boss is chasing you. Also the transition in the final boss arena into those little rooms is very cool imo
@@Borderlesscott having to manage your air, the slow mobility and jump higher, the section where you have to find the different ruins while being chased by the boss, all the underwater expiration in general. It’s a lot more then just picking up a bubble quit being stupid
@@hatchell18 I’m afraid I’m not the one stupid if you think that’s a great brain taxing mechanism 😂 Find the runes - same place every time in the underwater room - soooo brain taxing Boss chase - hardly much of a worry he just pushes you at worst Grabbing bubbles - you can skip most of them, in the same place each time for slow or no memory players Are you a complete dodo with a 5 min memory or something?
The only complaints i have are boss hp being too high and lack of cover in the final boss room. The gear, locations, and actual mechanics are slam dunks though.
Yeah the shields the boss has is ridiculous. The respawn rate of ads in the first boss is buts as well. You can execute a knight and before you finish the animation it’s already starting it’s respawn.
The boss encounters are mentally exhausting. I leveled up my forbearance 3 times in my first run. I love this dungeon more or less, but it seems like the dungeon team should swap some enemy density and boss damage with the raid team. What is even happening here.
Specially at the second encouter when you come up from symbols,all just waiting,red eyed bloodthirsty psychopaths.not like in movies one at a time,no no no,all at once!
One problem with long encounters is the risks of bugs preventing progress and an increase in error codes due to Bungie code. My solo flawless run ended when I got the boss down to ~30% health and got weaseled out last night. I don't think I am going to try again until the health gets reduced.
Yeah I've had a lot of solo dungeon attempts ruined by error codes. Pretty absurd for Bungie to expect constant perfection from a player to complete a dungeon yet they can't even provide a stable platform for us..
@Elliot Rodger I can see them reducing the health, removing the shield, or adding some sort of booster, or a mix. It depends on what is faster to test and release in their production cycle.
This, Crota revamp, and Warlords to me shows that we either got a new raid team or the leash got taken off the old one. And now we’re getting tweaked encounters with mixed up mechanics in pantheon - which btw since the last reset Golgoroth now applies 2-3 Unstable Light debuffs which is an awesome change, so I think the rest of the Pantheon tweaks are gonna be awesome. Seriously, I think we’re gonna be in for a treat with TFS raid & the eventual D2 Age of Triumph. Think of how awesome Spire or Crown revamp is gonna be with this raid team at the helm.
I could see them adding the multiplicity modifier to dungeons from now on because that final boss health pool on solo is a big OOF. Love the difficulty of this dungeon, and I hope they add more mechanics like this to future dungeons and raids. I was really disappointed RON basically had the same “connect the dots” mechanic like Spire.
I dont think they will add multiplicity. The reason solo dungeons are a challenge is that you are tackling an activity designed for three people by yourself.
Listening to Xivu come to terms with the death of her family and realizing that for the first time billions of years she’s truly alone was heartbreaking.
Final boss solo is actually crazy, that needs to be reigned in Edit: Especially when getting to the boss solo is like a 30 to 40 minutes investment, then a hour long of focused combat is actually crazy.
Honestly I don't mind the health, but I would have preferred the boss shield didn't sip into DPS. Doing the puzzle should be how we lower the shield, then normal DPS.
The second encounter is my favorite out of any dungeon encounter imo, even solo. Super hectic pace, lots of enemies, short mechanic phases to get to damage, and the underwater section is what makes a perfect encounter for me. It can be optimized by knowing rune locations and using the knight to boost you, but it’ll never be easy down there you’ll always be on your toes. Only thing is I wish was different is that the shield came down quicker.
Depending on your build, a well placed nade and a special weapon will clap it. or arbalest if you wanna do some build swap shenanigans with another exotic (acrius etc.)
The final boss completion run took us an hour and a half. Some of the most tense and grueling fighting I have done in a while. Thankfully the water is kind of a life saver, no threat in it, avoids damage, loses agro. Legit a perfect strat.
It was fun afff going in blind day one with a fireteam and figuring everything else day one raids are just hell because your with 5 others do mo room to mess up and the encounters are way harder to figure out eventually everyone gets angry and boots you
I always do a first "blind run" of a dungeon with one friend. (we duo 99% of the game if it's not matchmade). This one was VERY refreshing. the only dungeon we've actually struggled with was duality, and that was mainly because of bugs. god I still really don't like duality (final boss). The rest is actually ok. This one, (we haven't finished yet), felt REALLY good and fun so far.
@@user-og8xv1ih4p Yeah, I had a LFG team and during the final boss I was like "We're stuck, should we go on YT to find the solution?" loved that this one guy on our team said "Nah we can do this" and we actually did lmao
If they adjust the health pool for the final boss, then I hope that they just adjust the scaling for solo and duo runs. It felt manageable as a full fireteam and I enjoyed the challenge.
No. The entire point of solo challenges is you are doing 1/3 of the damage while juggling the ads and the mechanics. The bosses just have way too much god damn health period. You could cut them in half and they’d STILL have more health than Caiatl.
@@hithere5553 general rule for bosses should be the more likely a boss can dogde your attacks via teliportation the less health they should have. I'd say the final boss have way less health then the first boss just because of the teleporation alone.
After doing the dungeon a few times the water sections weren't as bad I thought they'd be. There's quite a few ways to go fast once you know the routes and the repeat run throughs didn't bother me much tbh.
I agree, you can fall super fast if you follow a strict line. it takes like 5 mins to get through that one bit. nothing compared to the actual encounters(especially final boss).
This dungeon is the perfect example of adjusting boss health based on fire team size. I'm not asking for a massive swing, just enough where it's still a challenge but I'm not entering mind numbing auto pilot territory by having to do five to six damage phases with an optimal build and execution.
@@thetoolie5917 You can see what loadout they used and apply that to your own runs. It's very possible to have a comfortable 4 phase with what they used, even as an average player. They're obviously a very talented player, but that's not making their weapons deal more damage
I feel like they did solo runs dirty on this one. Breaking the boss shield each dmg phase adds alot of effective HP unless you rune Arby. Players have been asking for scaled boss hp on dungeons alot lately i feel and this will only fuel that. I dont really mind personaly as i belive tgat solo dungeon should be the "normal" experience just alone to show you got what it takes. But i also see where people are comming from.
Yeah the devs' decision on the overshield puzzles me, too. It's not even a speedbump in a fireteam (one player in the team runs Arbalest). But when solo, it's tremendously punishing in terms of number of phases if you shoot down the overshield, OR it punishingly restricts your build if you runs Arbalest.
If they made dungeons for solo players then 3 man teams would wipe the floor with it. Solo dungeons are not the norm they are the challenge. If you guys are struggling with the shield you don't have to use arby. If you're a titan, synthoceps, plus Hammer of sol will break the sheikd and do damage. Or a good old t crash. Hunter you'll probably be on arc so gathering storm. Warlock, xenophage makes quick work and within a well it'll shred. With all classes though you can hot swap Arbi off for leviathan breath if uou have a rocket with bipod. Hope it helps
I personally don't think the boss health is the case. The person with arbalest has been doing about 2 million more damage than the others, which makes me think the boss has a lot of health in their shields. I've also been consistently getting 2 or 3 phases on them, with heavy dropping pretty frequently, so it hasn't been too sloggy.
@@sauceinmyface9302 the boss shield is give or take 500k health. And does not count towards her total health pool. Her health is about 11Million. Not countering the shield.
Everything about this dungeon was insane, the visuals the encounters and the lore seem like they have so much thought and effort put into them. Also this is probably the coolest environment we have ever traversed.
I love pretty much everything about this dungeon. Really glad they took the time to give us some interesting and unique mechanics. The combat experience is also fantastic.
This dungeon felt better than duality in most regards too, and way more stable, which surprised the hell out of me. The whole angle going on with this dungeon and it's connection to the Red War, is pretty freaking neato.
@@jimijenkins2548 I mean, going into the arcology that was seen at the very end of titan in the red war, you even see the yellow tank at the start that last saw us and Amanda.
We live in a world where a DUNGEON is more difficult and engaging with harder DPS checks than a RAID. I bet the solo flawless emblem for GoTD will be more rare than the RoN day-emblem.
@@idkwhatcoolnametouse8987 you’d be surprised, Grasp, Duality, and Spires Solo Flaw emblems are currently rarer that Root’s 48 hour emblem. Which is pretty wild
I took 50 minutes on the last boss too on my solo flawless. My previous 2 failed attempts were due to me spacing out near the end (1-2 damage phases left) and not checking the rune on the hive guardian because after a while everything blends together. It's an endurance test for sure
Glad you mentioned the idea of the HP being bugged possibly because that's what my friends and I felt when running it blind on Friday. On the second go it made more sense, far faster clear, then we each tried solo. That shit is so fucking grueling with the time it took to get through those fights, I hope it at least gets scaled down for that even if it's left untouched for a full fireteam.
I dont think the health is bugged at all. Personally i feel like this IS how the solo experience is supposed to be. Dungeons are made for fireteams, if a guardian chooses to go it alone, thats the challenge they have accepted.
@leroyrodgers6089 not really. If you're complaining about it cause you cant one shot it, that sounds like a you problem. My fireteam almost one phased, got it down to 1/4 hp in one go, so whats your excuse. Yall have got too used to shit being so extremely easy.
@@iwycked You likely have a real fireteam that you use all the time. Not everyone has that. Every fireteam I have gotten on LFG has struggled to do 1/6th of the damage bar. It is what it is.
@@leroyrodgers6089God that guy sounds like a dickhead. Nah, you’re right. HP was a bit too high. Encounters should not be designed around the peak # of players. Especially something as a simple as a dungeon. This isn’t a day one raid. I have a consistent fireteam for stuff like this, but as someone who dabbles in solo or duo content as well, that side of me sees that yeah, this dungeon was maybe a bit overtuned
When i ran the dungeon on day 1 i was actually surprised with how it was handled and how the mechanics were introduced. When i ran SotW on day 1 it didn't feel like we were introduced to a new mechanic with the red wires, it felt more like we were being put on a timer rather than complicating and expanding on the mechanics that were already introduced. When me and my team got to the second encounter it felt GREAT because of the enemy density and having to learn something new to get to damage and at the final boss it was tense due to the danger the actual boss posed upon us. When we figured out that we needed to kill the knight in a certain spot it actually felt that we were figuring things out rather than repeating the same mechanic over and over again like we did in SotW. TLDR; dungeon was really high quality and brought an actual challenge and is a HUGE step up from the JOKE that was RoN.
The 2nd encounter is fucking fantastic. The boss is eating your ass in the water and you're mowing through an unending army out of water. Its what ive wanted from raids for so long. Its the final encounter of spire cranked to 11. Its the best experience ive had in this franchise since forsaken and its not close.
Did this solo flawless with bonk titan, if you’re thinking about attempting this I HIGHLY recommend a solar titan build. Your life will be much easier. Like you can do it on other classes or subclasses, but it will save you a ton of sanity to use a hammer build. For the final boss I used arby plus bait and switch cataclysm
Regarding the exotic, it has two neat things going on that aren't in its description. 1) you can get and give woven mail without being on strand 2) severing an enemy gives YOU woven mail
ngl i just wish theyd scale health based on team size. like they already did in the legend campaign.. itd make a lot more sense imo. seeing as dungeons are supposed to be soloable, the health should be more solo friendly.
I had a lot of fun doing the final boss fight, me and my team tried a ton of stuff and I loved feeling it all click together in my mind and explaining it excitedly to my friends lol. Especially since I haven’t really had the chance to attempt a day one raid yet due to personal stuff.
I know you were talking about Spire of the watcher but I wish they would bring back some of the Spire of Stars encounter mechanics if the setting fits. I mean it was the only raid that had to be done by at least 5 people and overall the mechanics and boss fight were just awesome.
My personal breakdown: First encounter: Ya three phases may have been a bit better Transition: This is just a little long but it actually gets so much faster the more you know about it. Realizing which floors you can skip and using dive maneuvers like shatterdive speed things up a lot. You can also skate into any of the water faces and carry your momentum by doing so. Skipping an entire section of water felt cool. Ecthar: Ad density is amazing here and the lack of anything dumb like backpacks at caiatl in duality makes this an infinitely more enjoyable experience. His transitions between phases is my favorite part as he is actively trying to stop you during every portion. It feels like he knows exactly what you are doing and you are just outdoing him. Health needs a scalar for solo runs to be a 3rd of what it is, same goes for the necromancer. Necromancer: Not writing her full name. Love the undertones of oryx’s theme laced in her song. The arena just feels really cool to move around in and not just because of oryx’s huge body being a big mechanic. I have seen some complaints about ads spawning during dps and the moths. But honestly to both of those I actually say git gud. I think it is perfectly up the alley of a NECROMANCER to be summoning in a ton of stuff to do its bidding at all points in the fight. To me it actually feels likw fighting a necromancer for this reason. Usually a grenade or two will do well enough to keep ads off of you as they don’t spawn in the same density during dps. Loot: Bungie has not only made some of the awesomest armor generally here (hunters got a symmetrical peice lets GOOOO) but all of the weapons except the glaive are unique and cool to play around with. The only problem with the glaive being that the rolls are nothing new and frankly its a glaive. Lore: This is the best dungeon lore you cannot change my mind. Just the reveal alone was amazing but xivu’s voice acting to top it all off was so cool. Ecthar being a boss from that guy you killed for the sword in D1, all of it was just so neat. Complaints: We need a health scalar for solo play because having to absolutely maximize for a four phase is a little much. If you want that I feel the master mode would be a fine home for it. And honestly that is the only thing I have to say. It was such a stellar dungeon that I am proud of bungie for this. Note: The navigator is actually useful maybe moreso off of strand than on it. As on void its not like picking up an orb just grants you woven mail unless you have a titan on strand. TLDR: I honestly reiterated most of the things datto said here and totally agree that this is the most fun dungeon, and day 1 of this was more fun than root of mightmares. Only complaint is solo health pools.
Maybe they can do something similar to the campaign where they adjust the boss health to the fireteam size. Keep the health the same for a fireteam of 3 but for solo reduce it by half or something like that. Probably not happening with this dungeon but maybe something for future dungeons.
@@Villle89 Soloing it is definitely intended for dungeons. There are 2 triumphs for each dungeon for soloing it and 1 awards you with an emblem. Dungeon mechanics are build to be able to solo it that's what everyone also keeps in mind when doing a blind run and trying to figure the mechanics out. It is so obvious that dungeons are intended to be soloable that I feel like you might have worded your statement wrong. Did you maybe mean that soloing a dungeon is meant to be high-end content. As in, it is meant to be difficult? So, it's meant to have a ton of hp? If so I agree that it's meant to be hard but a bullet sponge is just annoying. Nobody wants to sit there and 20-phase a boss. The boss needs to have some hp but I'd say no more than 4 or 5 phases when getting optimal dps when solo. That should also make it so you can 1 or 2-phase the boss in a fireteam of 3.
@@victorb7562 i managed to 6 phase the final boss solo and its not that complicated. To break the shield i used hammer of sol (synthos and 3x roaring flames). When the shield is broken switch to actium war rig and solar surges so you can absolutely molest the boss with xenophage (make sure to extend radiant with minihammer). Whilst shooting make sure to pick up extra ammo bricks on the ground to get as much damage as possible (with triple reserves it should be a very comfortsble 6 phase and with possibillity for a 5 phase if u pick up extra bricks during damage
Only have one complaint about the dungeon, and that's that there's softlock bugs in the boss room. Hoping those get fixed soon, because it seems totally random what triggers them. But yeah, that's literally my only complaint. I loved everything else about it from the theming to the underwater mechanic and, perhaps the most underrated aspect, the cool ass moth attack the final boss does.
@@sauceinmyface9302 there's two that I've come across. In one of them, when you match the circle with the oryx symbol, it'll complete but not disapear. So you'll have the symbol for the location, and the alignment symbols simultaniously. And when that happens, you can't dunk at that location and thus can't progress the encounter The second one happens when you activate deepsight for the first time in a cycle. The empty spaces to dunk the vestiges will appear, but the giant triangle won't. When this happens you just can't dunk any of the vestiges.
for the pricing part, i return to the game around mid of season 20 after being afk since year 1, i bought all the on sale items of the lightfall expansion, legacy collection, 30th year anni pack and forsaken pack, didnt buy the annual season pass cuz that wasnt on sale, now since then i bought 2x $18.99 silver packs CAD, one for the season 21 season pass and one for the dungeon key, i would not lie, this dungeon key feels very worth it so far and i dont regret at all (maybe i got navigator on first clear was kinda helping this impression)
My only gripes are the first encounter being a bit long and the final boss having WAY too much health for a boss that teleports to random spots in the arena
I think this may be an unpopular opinion but I've really enjoyed having a mechanically easy raid, and a difficult dungeon. It's helped me with some friends who are new to the game to be able to take them straight into a raid and them to be able to do well and try out the mechanics, it's been a rapid way of getting people to have the confidence to try out the "endgame pve". And I've also really enjoyed having to buildcraft and "tryhard" with my clan in a smaller 3 person activity.
@@ToshimonsterRealmbut it's easier to get 6 people for root of nightmares than any other raid in the game because it's so simple to teach and people don't have to stress too much. As long as 1 or 2 people know what they're doing it's super easy to teach everyone else
The fact that The Navigator is a support weapon means I can have more fun in this game. This dungeon has been great in aesthetics and in loot. Too many ads that chunk your health personally (especially how long the final encounter can take), but I do have a lot more fun fighting for my life than I would in most other content. Respect to everyone and their choice, and cheers for the review, Datto!
Ron: 2 mechanics. GOTD: 2-3 mechanics iirc Nez has less health than the wizard, plus the ad density per person is much greater in GOTD. Only problems I have with GOTD are its 1st encounter and rather underwhelming loot. That stasis waveframe could be so much better than just demo aj
They actually have the same amount of health. It's just for a raid that is too little health for 6 players and for a dungeon that is way too much for the solo runs.
I really hope they need the dungeon bosses for solo only. The health pools feel good for 3 players, but terrible for only one. Maybe they can add a scaler like the one they used for lightfall and witchqueen campaigns.
I dont understand Bungie, why does a raid boss in a 6 player activity in the same health range as a boss in a 3 player activity (that is supposed to be done solo) I thought Persys was bad in Spire, but with dungeon bosses if you have a high health pool it should be supplemented with quick mechanics to get dps phases, so final boss feels like a massive slog to go through solo, hopefully it'll be supplemented better once our light level is higher with season cap, but it feels weird how bungie can scale bosses without regarding how many people are doing that encounter through player deficit. Still a pretty good dungeon though.
I think something that would remove pretty much any complaint about diving in the methane for me would be to just let us hold the crouch button to descend more quickly
I only have 3 main gripes with this dungeon: 1. The starting encounter taking as long as it does 2. Underwater bits and general traversal between encounters taking as long as it does 3. The final boss being able to spawn a mass swarm of the moths with no notification. The first two i can begrudgingly get used to but that last one just absolutely kills my enjoyment of the last encounter, she should have some audio or visual signal that there is a one-shot swarm heading my way (if there is one it needs to be more pronounced because i absolutely could not hear/see it during my runs)
This was probably a warlock skill issue but I went solo to the first boss and on god I was throwing entire kits at the guy and not cracking his overshield, it took me to see Aztecross uncover that Nova Bomb (you know, one of the best survivability kits in the game) can barely deal 200k damage. Though I don't like depending on hiding and just disengaging like b- from fights in PVE and just standing in a corner wincing and whining until my health is back, I guess that's just the best warlock strats given the laughably bad state of nova.
I feel like the boss health is a little high, but i also feel like power creep will change that pretty fast lol. So good job looking to the future bungie
What power creep? We're at 1810 for the next 3 months. At most our power will increase by 10 in season 22 (if at all). So at best we can hope for +10 power in the next 6 months.
Not power level creep, that's totally different. Power creep, when most people talk about it, is like when a new dungeon comes out and needs to have cool/unique/powerful weapons to chase otherwise players will quickly disregard it. Those weapons are often going to be just a little more powerful (sometimes a lot more...) than previous weapons. Not just in raw numbers, but in the perks.
Took 2 hours 45minutes with my normal group to complete it (going in blind). Overall not bad but not great. Took us 12 phases on the final boss. Did though the first boss 2 more times to help out friends. They where done after the first boss as it took them 2 hours to clear though the first boss, with me doing the rune mechanic and guiding them though what to do. We where not optimal gear for it. Other than my main group the other 4 players all said it was the worst dungeon and where questioning if they would do it again.
All the "I'll add clear" people are real silent right now because this dungeon actually requires everyone to participate in mechanics and that's absolutely amazing.
i think the hp of the boss should scale based on fireteam size but nothing else. keep the mob density, keep the hp of the mobs and the damage they do the same, just make the boss have less hp when solo so it's 3-4 phases instead of 6-10
To the people complaining about the enemy density. Remember that this is the consequence of our current power creep, so the "just buff everything to be as strong instead of nerfing" will complain once bungie HAS to compensate for that by increasing density + boss health
Navigator is an interesting weapon. The word itself helped me recognise the lore back in 2015 when I read it. It was when oryx killed both xivu and savathun in his throne world so he could gain sword logic to overpower akka. And at the very end of the lore “King Auryx was the first navigator with the map of death.” That line I will never forget. gun looks like an orca as well
Health feels a little inflated, but that's an easy fix. Traversal sections start to drag, but sometimes it be that way. Overall kickass dungeon. I tried to go through blind solo on my first run and Ecthar whooped my ass, so I had a friend tag along and we cleared in an hour or two. I'm not super keen on destiny lately, but I'd probably play this for some weekly fun.
I've done all the dungeons solo flawless, I'm quite good at it, and I'm sure i could get this done rather quickly. BUT, i went to do a test run, got to the second encounter, first damage phase, and immediately got physicsd into a wall and insta-killed by the boss. I've never been this disappointed with how the solo feels versus the 3 player experience. With my day one team, it was phenomenal, way more fun than i expected. Doing it solo, there's way too many things that don't make sense. The boss shields seem to not take consistent damage from all sources, arby one shots both boss shields, but i had a combination of damage on the first boss reach a million damage, and he still had shield. The first boss comes out of the water too soon before the wrathborn knight spawns, meaning even if you insta kill it, he can slam you into a wall before you can even do any damage sometimes. And the final boss teleports to inconsistently to be fun. She doesn't seem to teleport to any specific points, just wherever she feels like, and we had one damage phase where she teleported nearly 10 times by the end. I hate when other people say this, but it honestly feels like nobody at Bungie even tried to solo the dungeon before it came out. Duality felt like a fun and interesting puzzle to figure out what the most optimal way to solo was, while this feels like trying to figure out what's make that intermittent squeaking sound in your car. Frustrating the whole way through.
I got the navigator to drop for me this morning and I’ve been running it with the new warlock trace rifle helmet. The artifact mods for strand really makes the trace rifle pop off. Constantly applying sever and unraveling while also making ammo for the homies thanks to the helmet is fantastic
8:39 the main advantage of it right now is you can get unlimited unraveling rounds on it without strand on due to the artifact mod that gives unraveling rounds when you get woven mail. With this you not only get a pretty decent primary with the other unraveling damage buff artifact mod, but you can also get effectively focusing lens for void and arc abilities making it seasonally a pretty good option.
The worst thing about Simmumah is not her health (although that is bad), it’s that she’s literally just a normal sized Wizard that has normal Wizard behavior. Like she is the size of a red bar ad, with the health of Nezarec. Rockets can suck because she can just randomly decide to sidestep. Snipers/LFRs can suck because of the tiny head hitbox in conjunction with the little arm wave thing Wizards do that blocks their head hitbox. Swords suck because she is like 20 feet off the ground. She is just a straight up bullet sponge. It’s so unfun to fight her.
Thing is about the exotic weapon is that it's VERY good when not playing a strand subclass. Think about the seasonal artifact and the top one on the fifth row. ANY strand debuff increases the damage of arc and void. Also giving yourself woven mail whilst on another subclass just lets you double dip into DR and what not.
increases the damage of void and arc abilities by... 5%. calling something "very good" for wasting a exotic slot and giving your abilities 5% more damage is a huge stretch
I really enjoyed this new dungeon, I believe it needs 2 little things to be almost perfect : - A scaling to solo runs : Same as choosing between Legend / Master / GM, you could have a basic and solo version of it. In solo it would lock your fireteam to prevent people abusing the scaling by joining and where the bosses's health is getting a bit tuned down, and maybe the first boss's room adds spawn being a bit more spaced out. All those things are manageable and fun at 3 but I feel like it's going to be a bit too much for solo tries. - A way to speed up some parts, and I'm thinking about the first encounter + water ones. In the Spire of the Watcher when you know what to do, you can really speed up the opening + ascension. Would have been cool to be able to trace multiple runes at the same time here for the opening, and having maybe some shortcuts in the water that are short on breath. Overall great dungeon, the first thought that came to my mind when finishing it for the first time was to tell my fireteam that it was definitely a better raid than RoN was/is..
I’ve consistently 2 phases the final boss with linears and div with surge mods. I think this dungeon is an example of them trying to build encounters around our current power level. Which is probably what makes it so fun.
My group did it on master for our first run for the exotic drop chance, and it was still somewhat enjoyable at 25+ light under, and it is easily the best dungeon when at proper light
if they could scale the boss' health to the fireteam size like they do for legendary/master missions, i think that would be a good idea. literally my only beef with this dungeon really
The final boss from my experimenting actually teleports to the first pool that is stood in, and about 2/3 of the way through damage the boss teleports to the center way up high before going immune. Could just be a fluke but that’s what it seemed to be during my runs
One thing that annoyed me with the final boss was that my group killed her in the middle of a teleport, which meant that her ghost wasn't where we thought it was, and she respawned. It required another damage phase. Otherwise, an excellent experience.
Attention everyone: Right now the final boss fight is bugged, and quite often if you respawn without getting rezzed it will respawn you back above the encounter area with a 5 second kill timer and you will have to dive through a hole to get back. Until this is fixed, let your teammates rez you. Also, BEFORE THE ENCOUNTER STARTS, if you Witherhoard the boss, commit die, get rezzed, and quickly stick the boss with Wither again, and proceed to keep chaining withers whilst having low ammo, you can infinite tick the boss and kill it without starting the encounter. This works on master too. It takes a bit of practice, so I'd recommend looking up a guide. THIS WILL BE PATCHED. Get some quick artifice armor while you can.
That final boss sure did have the health of a raid boss…
I mean compared to nez’s health LMAO
she actually has the same health as nezarec so yeah...
is bugged at lvl 1810
so u need top be 1831 to do normal damage
Also she just *BLOOPS* around. Sometimes that's great and she's point-blank, other times she just goes from chest to head and ):
@Jebaited why do you need to be 21 lvls above? Surely you'd do "normal" damage against an enemy at your level?
The lore collectibles detailing Xivu's mental breakdown is probably some of the best character exposition we've ever had.
Voice acting as well; amazing job.
They really nailed it. She deserves an award for her voice acting fr
@@Udon_Noodlemakes me so excited to hear more from Xivu. The personality showing through is so so so cool, like wow MORE BUNGIE!
I hated it. Hearing a psychotic woman complain about things is the last thing I want to do when gaming. I game to get away from all that.
@@AlphaMachina pretending you know any women, cute.
This dungeon didnt feel like a glorified strike i felt like a raid designed for 3 people and felt intese the entire way through big props to bungo on this one
Basically what a dungeon should be? I am fine with Root of Nightmares being the way it is, it is relatively simple for mechanics so it can get you adjusted to doing more difficult mechanics. Like we dont have Leviathan, Spite of Stars, etc from Red War where you got introduced to D2 raiding with fun and good mechanics.
Not every raid needs to be Last Wish levels of mechanics or DSC. People need to dip their toes in something that can prepare them.
@@Ashen_Night116 awful take
@@shatteredakuma That’s a valid point. Wrath was a short raid and had simple mechanics, same with deep stone. Why is it a problem when it comes to Ron?
@@Brian-wp9er because we already have an easy raid with VoG, RoN being accessible was a mistake because now every shitter who doesn't do mechanics wants to do ad clear all the time
@@Brian-wp9er wrath is fun, ron is not. the problem with ron is that its not even comparable to dsc and wrath with how simple it is. youre doing wrath a disservice by putting it in the same tier as ron. the conversation is so much more nuanced than "theyre both short".
raids are supposed to be the endgame, the rest of the game should be the entry point to raids, not a raid itself. thats why dudes take is retarded
This entire dungeon is what season of the plunder wished it could be
Ketch Crash am I right 😆
At least plunder was solo friendly.
This entire season is the season plunder wished it could be
Uh, sorry, but...what's the correlation? I don't see one besides the vague connection between the oceanic theme and the pirate theme, but that's loose at best.
@@Vorox1027 harpoon
The underwater mechanics implemented into the dungeon are some of my favorite mechanics in any raid/dungeon. Also, this is 100% one of the best looking environments in the entire game
What underwater mechanisms? You walk through a bubble and most cases you can skip them.
I loved the water parts .great dungeon
@@Borderlesscott mainly talking about the 2nd encounter where the boss is chasing you. Also the transition in the final boss arena into those little rooms is very cool imo
@@Borderlesscott having to manage your air, the slow mobility and jump higher, the section where you have to find the different ruins while being chased by the boss, all the underwater expiration in general. It’s a lot more then just picking up a bubble quit being stupid
@@hatchell18 I’m afraid I’m not the one stupid if you think that’s a great brain taxing mechanism 😂
Find the runes - same place every time in the underwater room - soooo brain taxing
Boss chase - hardly much of a worry he just pushes you at worst
Grabbing bubbles - you can skip most of them, in the same place each time for slow or no memory players
Are you a complete dodo with a 5 min memory or something?
The only complaints i have are boss hp being too high and lack of cover in the final boss room. The gear, locations, and actual mechanics are slam dunks though.
Doesn't help that there isn't a single moment in the main arena where she doesn't shoot
My biggest complaint is the health gate is HUGE against solo players. Like an extra million before damage is even dealt is crazy
@@potato1341 arbalest helps with that but yeah, it’s a bit much
@@potato1341 its bugged rn,her power level is at 1810 rn
Yeah the shields the boss has is ridiculous. The respawn rate of ads in the first boss is buts as well. You can execute a knight and before you finish the animation it’s already starting it’s respawn.
The final boss has a more harder and complex mechanic than anything in RoN
more difficult*
@@Oblivion9996 😢
The boss encounters are mentally exhausting. I leveled up my forbearance 3 times in my first run. I love this dungeon more or less, but it seems like the dungeon team should swap some enemy density and boss damage with the raid team. What is even happening here.
@@JustinThompson its really not that bad
Not complex at all, just longer
You can almost feel the vendetta in the enemy density in the solo experience
Even with 3 people it's kind of outrageous! You love to see it.
Specially at the second encouter when you come up from symbols,all just waiting,red eyed bloodthirsty psychopaths.not like in movies one at a time,no no no,all at once!
Apparently there's so many enemies that trying to solo the dungeon while taking your time is asking to get Error code: Guitar.
One problem with long encounters is the risks of bugs preventing progress and an increase in error codes due to Bungie code. My solo flawless run ended when I got the boss down to ~30% health and got weaseled out last night. I don't think I am going to try again until the health gets reduced.
Yeah I've had a lot of solo dungeon attempts ruined by error codes. Pretty absurd for Bungie to expect constant perfection from a player to complete a dungeon yet they can't even provide a stable platform for us..
@Elliot Rodger I can see them reducing the health, removing the shield, or adding some sort of booster, or a mix. It depends on what is faster to test and release in their production cycle.
@@davidcodeandgames I agree
Ran it today literally spawned my team outside of the arena and we couldn't get back in when we got them down to 10% health.
@elliotrodger5813 they'll scale it to player count
I hope whoever designed this Dungeon gets a crack at designing the next raid
And the dude who did RoN can do the next dungeon lol
@@cykeok3525 Naw, they can make the next seasonal activity if they're lucky.
@@r.g.s.5923 Agreed lol
Idk what yous are on about but Ron’s aesthetics are amazing. One of the nicest looking raids in the game
This, Crota revamp, and Warlords to me shows that we either got a new raid team or the leash got taken off the old one. And now we’re getting tweaked encounters with mixed up mechanics in pantheon - which btw since the last reset Golgoroth now applies 2-3 Unstable Light debuffs which is an awesome change, so I think the rest of the Pantheon tweaks are gonna be awesome.
Seriously, I think we’re gonna be in for a treat with TFS raid & the eventual D2 Age of Triumph. Think of how awesome Spire or Crown revamp is gonna be with this raid team at the helm.
I could see them adding the multiplicity modifier to dungeons from now on because that final boss health pool on solo is a big OOF. Love the difficulty of this dungeon, and I hope they add more mechanics like this to future dungeons and raids. I was really disappointed RON basically had the same “connect the dots” mechanic like Spire.
I dont think they will add multiplicity. The reason solo dungeons are a challenge is that you are tackling an activity designed for three people by yourself.
Listening to Xivu come to terms with the death of her family and realizing that for the first time billions of years she’s truly alone was heartbreaking.
good thing it's all made up and a video game
@@SadYankeesFan its real
Nah. To me it’s enjoyable considering how many species she extinguished.
oh no the genocidal alien feels bad. god this community is filled with cucks.
Final boss solo is actually crazy, that needs to be reigned in
Edit: Especially when getting to the boss solo is like a 30 to 40 minutes investment, then a hour long of focused combat is actually crazy.
Skill issue
@@allmight2159says the guy that gets carried lol
Git gud.
@@linguinipiny2341 majority are better than you
@@allmight2159ts more of an endurance issue, but solo is very easy
The bosses health pools is really my only major gripe. There is zero reason why a dungeon boss should have more HP (and shield) than Nez.
Honestly I don't mind the health, but I would have preferred the boss shield didn't sip into DPS.
Doing the puzzle should be how we lower the shield, then normal DPS.
@@RebelOfTheNorm242 I could get behind that, especially since her shield can eat whole supers.
The second encounter is my favorite out of any dungeon encounter imo, even solo. Super hectic pace, lots of enemies, short mechanic phases to get to damage, and the underwater section is what makes a perfect encounter for me. It can be optimized by knowing rune locations and using the knight to boost you, but it’ll never be easy down there you’ll always be on your toes. Only thing is I wish was different is that the shield came down quicker.
Depending on your build, a well placed nade and a special weapon will clap it. or arbalest if you wanna do some build swap shenanigans with another exotic (acrius etc.)
@@adambeck427 I was on arc hunter for my solo flawless clear, gathering storm and tractor cannon does most of the work
I’ve also found that weapons with turnabout are godly against hive with over shields
We all laughed
Now look at us
Turnabout Voltshot Prodigal Return (the Defiance arc GL)...
You're welcome
Dead Messenger is way better.
turnabout is fkn dogshit 4 shards every time
@@Sin526 why use prodigal when forbearance and salvos exist
The final boss completion run took us an hour and a half. Some of the most tense and grueling fighting I have done in a while.
Thankfully the water is kind of a life saver, no threat in it, avoids damage, loses agro. Legit a perfect strat.
This was my first day one anything in D2, and I loved it. Boss health was a bit much though, felt too long. But everything felt fair as well.
It was fun afff going in blind day one with a fireteam and figuring everything else day one raids are just hell because your with 5 others do mo room to mess up and the encounters are way harder to figure out eventually everyone gets angry and boots you
Same. My Day 1 RoN was horrible, and this sorta made up for it
I always do a first "blind run" of a dungeon with one friend. (we duo 99% of the game if it's not matchmade). This one was VERY refreshing. the only dungeon we've actually struggled with was duality, and that was mainly because of bugs. god I still really don't like duality (final boss). The rest is actually ok.
This one, (we haven't finished yet), felt REALLY good and fun so far.
@@user-og8xv1ih4p Yeah, I had a LFG team and during the final boss I was like "We're stuck, should we go on YT to find the solution?" loved that this one guy on our team said "Nah we can do this" and we actually did lmao
If they adjust the health pool for the final boss, then I hope that they just adjust the scaling for solo and duo runs.
It felt manageable as a full fireteam and I enjoyed the challenge.
True. Normal team is infinitely stronger than even duo.
No. The entire point of solo challenges is you are doing 1/3 of the damage while juggling the ads and the mechanics. The bosses just have way too much god damn health period. You could cut them in half and they’d STILL have more health than Caiatl.
@@hithere5553 general rule for bosses should be the more likely a boss can dogde your attacks via teliportation the less health they should have.
I'd say the final boss have way less health then the first boss just because of the teleporation alone.
After doing the dungeon a few times the water sections weren't as bad I thought they'd be. There's quite a few ways to go fast once you know the routes and the repeat run throughs didn't bother me much tbh.
I agree, you can fall super fast if you follow a strict line. it takes like 5 mins to get through that one bit. nothing compared to the actual encounters(especially final boss).
This dungeon is the perfect example of adjusting boss health based on fire team size. I'm not asking for a massive swing, just enough where it's still a challenge but I'm not entering mind numbing auto pilot territory by having to do five to six damage phases with an optimal build and execution.
If you have an optimal build & execution, both bosses are very easily in 3 phase territory.
@@pluto3194my ass
@@thetoolie5917
Both bosses have been 3 phased solo
@@pluto3194 yeah by the same dude who solos raids 😐
@@thetoolie5917
You can see what loadout they used and apply that to your own runs. It's very possible to have a comfortable 4 phase with what they used, even as an average player. They're obviously a very talented player, but that's not making their weapons deal more damage
I feel like they did solo runs dirty on this one. Breaking the boss shield each dmg phase adds alot of effective HP unless you rune Arby. Players have been asking for scaled boss hp on dungeons alot lately i feel and this will only fuel that. I dont really mind personaly as i belive tgat solo dungeon should be the "normal" experience just alone to show you got what it takes. But i also see where people are comming from.
Yeah the devs' decision on the overshield puzzles me, too.
It's not even a speedbump in a fireteam (one player in the team runs Arbalest).
But when solo, it's tremendously punishing in terms of number of phases if you shoot down the overshield, OR it punishingly restricts your build if you runs Arbalest.
If they made dungeons for solo players then 3 man teams would wipe the floor with it. Solo dungeons are not the norm they are the challenge.
If you guys are struggling with the shield you don't have to use arby.
If you're a titan, synthoceps, plus Hammer of sol will break the sheikd and do damage. Or a good old t crash.
Hunter you'll probably be on arc so gathering storm.
Warlock, xenophage makes quick work and within a well it'll shred.
With all classes though you can hot swap Arbi off for leviathan breath if uou have a rocket with bipod.
Hope it helps
The only problems I have are the water parts being far too long and the bosses having raid boss health
I personally don't think the boss health is the case. The person with arbalest has been doing about 2 million more damage than the others, which makes me think the boss has a lot of health in their shields. I've also been consistently getting 2 or 3 phases on them, with heavy dropping pretty frequently, so it hasn't been too sloggy.
@@sauceinmyface9302 the boss shield is give or take 500k health. And does not count towards her total health pool. Her health is about 11Million. Not countering the shield.
@@sauceinmyface9302 arbalest is bugged and takes the shields of both bosses. Also, shields are not incorporated into boss health
Its wild that a fresh solo duality or spire takes less time than just the final boss. I love the dungeon in a duo or trio though
Everything about this dungeon was insane, the visuals the encounters and the lore seem like they have so much thought and effort put into them. Also this is probably the coolest environment we have ever traversed.
I love pretty much everything about this dungeon. Really glad they took the time to give us some interesting and unique mechanics. The combat experience is also fantastic.
I'm here for Root of Nightmares slander, but I like to think we can all agree that Planets is the high point of that raid
This dungeon felt better than duality in most regards too, and way more stable, which surprised the hell out of me. The whole angle going on with this dungeon and it's connection to the Red War, is pretty freaking neato.
How is this dungeon in any way connected to the red war? Doesn't it deal with the taken king, the witch queen, and season of the seraph?
@@jimijenkins2548 I mean, going into the arcology that was seen at the very end of titan in the red war, you even see the yellow tank at the start that last saw us and Amanda.
@@Letsanum I see. Yeah, it was nice to see the arcology get expanded on.
We live in a world where a DUNGEON is more difficult and engaging with harder DPS checks than a RAID. I bet the solo flawless emblem for GoTD will be more rare than the RoN day-emblem.
that's just impossible considering GoTD's solo flawless emblem isn't relegated to exclusively one day of its launch
@@idkwhatcoolnametouse8987 you’d be surprised, Grasp, Duality, and Spires Solo Flaw emblems are currently rarer that Root’s 48 hour emblem. Which is pretty wild
There is no dps check in the dungeon. The boss has a lot of hp but a dps "check" is a "do x dps or wipe" mechanic eg. Rhulk
@@idkwhatcoolnametouse8987 I've seen more people in the wild with the RoN contest emblem than I have ANY of the solo flawless emblems
@@itcheebeard There is a DPS check. If you spend almost an hour in the same encounter you will go insane and end up losing focus and dying.
Last boss kicked me and my friends’ ass, but god was it fun and a really good challenge to get through.
I took 50 minutes on the last boss too on my solo flawless. My previous 2 failed attempts were due to me spacing out near the end (1-2 damage phases left) and not checking the rune on the hive guardian because after a while everything blends together. It's an endurance test for sure
Glad you mentioned the idea of the HP being bugged possibly because that's what my friends and I felt when running it blind on Friday. On the second go it made more sense, far faster clear, then we each tried solo. That shit is so fucking grueling with the time it took to get through those fights, I hope it at least gets scaled down for that even if it's left untouched for a full fireteam.
I dont think the health is bugged at all. Personally i feel like this IS how the solo experience is supposed to be. Dungeons are made for fireteams, if a guardian chooses to go it alone, thats the challenge they have accepted.
The health is absurd for a full fireteam as well lol.
@leroyrodgers6089 not really. If you're complaining about it cause you cant one shot it, that sounds like a you problem. My fireteam almost one phased, got it down to 1/4 hp in one go, so whats your excuse. Yall have got too used to shit being so extremely easy.
@@iwycked You likely have a real fireteam that you use all the time. Not everyone has that. Every fireteam I have gotten on LFG has struggled to do 1/6th of the damage bar. It is what it is.
@@leroyrodgers6089God that guy sounds like a dickhead. Nah, you’re right. HP was a bit too high. Encounters should not be designed around the peak # of players. Especially something as a simple as a dungeon. This isn’t a day one raid.
I have a consistent fireteam for stuff like this, but as someone who dabbles in solo or duo content as well, that side of me sees that yeah, this dungeon was maybe a bit overtuned
I actually like that the final boss has 10 Million HP, what grinds my gears is that its a damn wizard that always TPs when I super or rocket.
Got to 8.5 mil and he was on half health so.... I don't know if the boss barricade is taking all my damage or domething
Solo
Final boss definitely has more than 10 mil hp, unless it is counting the shield damage for some reason
First boss has around 11-12mil
When i ran the dungeon on day 1 i was actually surprised with how it was handled and how the mechanics were introduced. When i ran SotW on day 1 it didn't feel like we were introduced to a new mechanic with the red wires, it felt more like we were being put on a timer rather than complicating and expanding on the mechanics that were already introduced. When me and my team got to the second encounter it felt GREAT because of the enemy density and having to learn something new to get to damage and at the final boss it was tense due to the danger the actual boss posed upon us. When we figured out that we needed to kill the knight in a certain spot it actually felt that we were figuring things out rather than repeating the same mechanic over and over again like we did in SotW. TLDR; dungeon was really high quality and brought an actual challenge and is a HUGE step up from the JOKE that was RoN.
The 2nd encounter is fucking fantastic. The boss is eating your ass in the water and you're mowing through an unending army out of water. Its what ive wanted from raids for so long. Its the final encounter of spire cranked to 11. Its the best experience ive had in this franchise since forsaken and its not close.
With party of 3 we did the final boss in 5 phases, watching datto do it in 5 solo is both very impressive but also somewhat demoralizing lmao
Watch Estorick’s. He does both bosses 4 phase solo
Did this solo flawless with bonk titan, if you’re thinking about attempting this I HIGHLY recommend a solar titan build. Your life will be much easier. Like you can do it on other classes or subclasses, but it will save you a ton of sanity to use a hammer build. For the final boss I used arby plus bait and switch cataclysm
If soloing this dungeon is reliant on running solar titan that is extremely limiting and overall just idiotic...
@@Random-th7wm No, it is not reliant on it at all. So it is not extremely limiting, nor idiotic.
hm phases it take you?
@@NobleVI_343 4-5 on first boss, 5-6 on second boss.
Regarding the exotic, it has two neat things going on that aren't in its description.
1) you can get and give woven mail without being on strand
2) severing an enemy gives YOU woven mail
Also there is a mod on the artifact this season buffing arc and void against strand debuffed targets
@@Goober2289 Ooh, gotta play with that a bit, thanks for reminding me!
Another fun fact about the Dungeon Exotic, it’s designed to look like an Orca Whale, look at the fin on the top and the white and black design!
ngl i just wish theyd scale health based on team size. like they already did in the legend campaign.. itd make a lot more sense imo. seeing as dungeons are supposed to be soloable, the health should be more solo friendly.
I'll say it once more, Hive remains the best race for dungeons/raids.
Absolutely wonderful!
having a checkpoint that opens up after a certain number of clears is like, a very common mmo thing and much needed in the water sections for sure
The Navigator also gives you woven mail when you sever yellow bars
I had a lot of fun doing the final boss fight, me and my team tried a ton of stuff and I loved feeling it all click together in my mind and explaining it excitedly to my friends lol. Especially since I haven’t really had the chance to attempt a day one raid yet due to personal stuff.
bungie going to charge $20 for stand alone raids now
I know you were talking about Spire of the watcher but I wish they would bring back some of the Spire of Stars encounter mechanics if the setting fits. I mean it was the only raid that had to be done by at least 5 people and overall the mechanics and boss fight were just awesome.
My personal breakdown:
First encounter:
Ya three phases may have been a bit better
Transition: This is just a little long but it actually gets so much faster the more you know about it. Realizing which floors you can skip and using dive maneuvers like shatterdive speed things up a lot. You can also skate into any of the water faces and carry your momentum by doing so. Skipping an entire section of water felt cool.
Ecthar:
Ad density is amazing here and the lack of anything dumb like backpacks at caiatl in duality makes this an infinitely more enjoyable experience. His transitions between phases is my favorite part as he is actively trying to stop you during every portion. It feels like he knows exactly what you are doing and you are just outdoing him.
Health needs a scalar for solo runs to be a 3rd of what it is, same goes for the necromancer.
Necromancer:
Not writing her full name. Love the undertones of oryx’s theme laced in her song. The arena just feels really cool to move around in and not just because of oryx’s huge body being a big mechanic.
I have seen some complaints about ads spawning during dps and the moths. But honestly to both of those I actually say git gud. I think it is perfectly up the alley of a NECROMANCER to be summoning in a ton of stuff to do its bidding at all points in the fight. To me it actually feels likw fighting a necromancer for this reason. Usually a grenade or two will do well enough to keep ads off of you as they don’t spawn in the same density during dps.
Loot:
Bungie has not only made some of the awesomest armor generally here (hunters got a symmetrical peice lets GOOOO) but all of the weapons except the glaive are unique and cool to play around with. The only problem with the glaive being that the rolls are nothing new and frankly its a glaive.
Lore:
This is the best dungeon lore you cannot change my mind. Just the reveal alone was amazing but xivu’s voice acting to top it all off was so cool. Ecthar being a boss from that guy you killed for the sword in D1, all of it was just so neat.
Complaints:
We need a health scalar for solo play because having to absolutely maximize for a four phase is a little much. If you want that I feel the master mode would be a fine home for it.
And honestly that is the only thing I have to say. It was such a stellar dungeon that I am proud of bungie for this.
Note:
The navigator is actually useful maybe moreso off of strand than on it. As on void its not like picking up an orb just grants you woven mail unless you have a titan on strand.
TLDR:
I honestly reiterated most of the things datto said here and totally agree that this is the most fun dungeon, and day 1 of this was more fun than root of mightmares. Only complaint is solo health pools.
Maybe they can do something similar to the campaign where they adjust the boss health to the fireteam size. Keep the health the same for a fireteam of 3 but for solo reduce it by half or something like that. Probably not happening with this dungeon but maybe something for future dungeons.
Solo campagins are supossed to be managable alone. Dungeons are meant for 3 people and soloing it is not intended and should show a lot of skills
@@Villle89 Soloing it is definitely intended for dungeons. There are 2 triumphs for each dungeon for soloing it and 1 awards you with an emblem. Dungeon mechanics are build to be able to solo it that's what everyone also keeps in mind when doing a blind run and trying to figure the mechanics out. It is so obvious that dungeons are intended to be soloable that I feel like you might have worded your statement wrong. Did you maybe mean that soloing a dungeon is meant to be high-end content. As in, it is meant to be difficult? So, it's meant to have a ton of hp?
If so I agree that it's meant to be hard but a bullet sponge is just annoying. Nobody wants to sit there and 20-phase a boss. The boss needs to have some hp but I'd say no more than 4 or 5 phases when getting optimal dps when solo. That should also make it so you can 1 or 2-phase the boss in a fireteam of 3.
@@victorb7562 i managed to 6 phase the final boss solo and its not that complicated. To break the shield i used hammer of sol (synthos and 3x roaring flames). When the shield is broken switch to actium war rig and solar surges so you can absolutely molest the boss with xenophage (make sure to extend radiant with minihammer). Whilst shooting make sure to pick up extra ammo bricks on the ground to get as much damage as possible (with triple reserves it should be a very comfortsble 6 phase and with possibillity for a 5 phase if u pick up extra bricks during damage
@@Villle89 okay that was not what we were talking about. Thanks for the explanation though I guess. Don't need it myself but might help other people.
Only have one complaint about the dungeon, and that's that there's softlock bugs in the boss room. Hoping those get fixed soon, because it seems totally random what triggers them.
But yeah, that's literally my only complaint. I loved everything else about it from the theming to the underwater mechanic and, perhaps the most underrated aspect, the cool ass moth attack the final boss does.
What's the softlock?
@@sauceinmyface9302 there's two that I've come across. In one of them, when you match the circle with the oryx symbol, it'll complete but not disapear. So you'll have the symbol for the location, and the alignment symbols simultaniously. And when that happens, you can't dunk at that location and thus can't progress the encounter
The second one happens when you activate deepsight for the first time in a cycle. The empty spaces to dunk the vestiges will appear, but the giant triangle won't. When this happens you just can't dunk any of the vestiges.
for the pricing part, i return to the game around mid of season 20 after being afk since year 1, i bought all the on sale items of the lightfall expansion, legacy collection, 30th year anni pack and forsaken pack, didnt buy the annual season pass cuz that wasnt on sale, now since then i bought 2x $18.99 silver packs CAD, one for the season 21 season pass and one for the dungeon key, i would not lie, this dungeon key feels very worth it so far and i dont regret at all (maybe i got navigator on first clear was kinda helping this impression)
The knight in the final boss room doesn’t actually need to be standing in the circle to create the glyph, you just have to be in it when you kill it
My only gripes are the first encounter being a bit long and the final boss having WAY too much health for a boss that teleports to random spots in the arena
I think this may be an unpopular opinion but I've really enjoyed having a mechanically easy raid, and a difficult dungeon. It's helped me with some friends who are new to the game to be able to take them straight into a raid and them to be able to do well and try out the mechanics, it's been a rapid way of getting people to have the confidence to try out the "endgame pve". And I've also really enjoyed having to buildcraft and "tryhard" with my clan in a smaller 3 person activity.
Its harder to get 6 people for an activity vs 3
@@ToshimonsterRealmbut it's easier to get 6 people for root of nightmares than any other raid in the game because it's so simple to teach and people don't have to stress too much. As long as 1 or 2 people know what they're doing it's super easy to teach everyone else
The fact Datto gets the reduced ads from being a streamer and still gets alot of ads really speaks to how dense this dungeon is.
I find that if you drop the final boss’ shield with Arby as soon as damage starts it won’t teleport anymore
Was waiting on my opinion. Thanks Datto
It was so much painful fun! And totally felt like a mini Raid !!
Loving the content. Great stuff, Datto!!! Keep up the great work. I'm super happy u found something worth something this season to get excited about.
The fact that The Navigator is a support weapon means I can have more fun in this game.
This dungeon has been great in aesthetics and in loot.
Too many ads that chunk your health personally (especially how long the final encounter can take), but I do have a lot more fun fighting for my life than I would in most other content.
Respect to everyone and their choice, and cheers for the review, Datto!
Ron: 2 mechanics.
GOTD: 2-3 mechanics
iirc Nez has less health than the wizard, plus the ad density per person is much greater in GOTD.
Only problems I have with GOTD are its 1st encounter and rather underwhelming loot. That stasis waveframe could be so much better than just demo aj
They actually have the same amount of health. It's just for a raid that is too little health for 6 players and for a dungeon that is way too much for the solo runs.
I really hope they need the dungeon bosses for solo only. The health pools feel good for 3 players, but terrible for only one. Maybe they can add a scaler like the one they used for lightfall and witchqueen campaigns.
No a health scalar would defeat the whole purpose of solo flawless. Just cut the bosses health by like 40% and call it a day.
who woulda thought the exotic would enable so many cool challenges and damage methods
Realizing what was going on when my fireteam got to the final boss arena was pretty awesome
Its a dungeon but the final boss makes it feel otherwise
I dont understand Bungie, why does a raid boss in a 6 player activity in the same health range as a boss in a 3 player activity (that is supposed to be done solo)
I thought Persys was bad in Spire, but with dungeon bosses if you have a high health pool it should be supplemented with quick mechanics to get dps phases, so final boss feels like a massive slog to go through solo, hopefully it'll be supplemented better once our light level is higher with season cap, but it feels weird how bungie can scale bosses without regarding how many people are doing that encounter through player deficit.
Still a pretty good dungeon though.
Nothing is supposed to be done solo. It’s an added challenge for people to go beyond normal endgame gameplay.
@@Hemphlev1985 bro there are literally solo and solo flawless triumps + rewards and solo is required for the title, what are you even talking about?
@@Hemphlev1985 ya no, solo is a requirement for a guardian rank lmao, not sure which one
I think something that would remove pretty much any complaint about diving in the methane for me would be to just let us hold the crouch button to descend more quickly
I only have 3 main gripes with this dungeon:
1. The starting encounter taking as long as it does
2. Underwater bits and general traversal between encounters taking as long as it does
3. The final boss being able to spawn a mass swarm of the moths with no notification.
The first two i can begrudgingly get used to but that last one just absolutely kills my enjoyment of the last encounter, she should have some audio or visual signal that there is a one-shot swarm heading my way (if there is one it needs to be more pronounced because i absolutely could not hear/see it during my runs)
The boss always spawns the moths when the knight you need to kill inside the circles respawns
This was probably a warlock skill issue but I went solo to the first boss and on god I was throwing entire kits at the guy and not cracking his overshield, it took me to see Aztecross uncover that Nova Bomb (you know, one of the best survivability kits in the game) can barely deal 200k damage. Though I don't like depending on hiding and just disengaging like b- from fights in PVE and just standing in a corner wincing and whining until my health is back, I guess that's just the best warlock strats given the laughably bad state of nova.
I feel like the boss health is a little high, but i also feel like power creep will change that pretty fast lol. So good job looking to the future bungie
What power creep? We're at 1810 for the next 3 months. At most our power will increase by 10 in season 22 (if at all). So at best we can hope for +10 power in the next 6 months.
Not power level creep, that's totally different. Power creep, when most people talk about it, is like when a new dungeon comes out and needs to have cool/unique/powerful weapons to chase otherwise players will quickly disregard it. Those weapons are often going to be just a little more powerful (sometimes a lot more...) than previous weapons. Not just in raw numbers, but in the perks.
Found that upon completing the dungeon with 2 clanmates that the final boss has a little under 12 million health which is a little mich
Took 2 hours 45minutes with my normal group to complete it (going in blind). Overall not bad but not great. Took us 12 phases on the final boss. Did though the first boss 2 more times to help out friends. They where done after the first boss as it took them 2 hours to clear though the first boss, with me doing the rune mechanic and guiding them though what to do. We where not optimal gear for it. Other than my main group the other 4 players all said it was the worst dungeon and where questioning if they would do it again.
All the "I'll add clear" people are real silent right now because this dungeon actually requires everyone to participate in mechanics and that's absolutely amazing.
i think the hp of the boss should scale based on fireteam size but nothing else. keep the mob density, keep the hp of the mobs and the damage they do the same, just make the boss have less hp when solo so it's 3-4 phases instead of 6-10
To the people complaining about the enemy density. Remember that this is the consequence of our current power creep, so the "just buff everything to be as strong instead of nerfing" will complain once bungie HAS to compensate for that by increasing density + boss health
Navigator is an interesting weapon. The word itself helped me recognise the lore back in 2015 when I read it. It was when oryx killed both xivu and savathun in his throne world so he could gain sword logic to overpower akka. And at the very end of the lore “King Auryx was the first navigator with the map of death.” That line I will never forget. gun looks like an orca as well
Health feels a little inflated, but that's an easy fix. Traversal sections start to drag, but sometimes it be that way. Overall kickass dungeon. I tried to go through blind solo on my first run and Ecthar whooped my ass, so I had a friend tag along and we cleared in an hour or two. I'm not super keen on destiny lately, but I'd probably play this for some weekly fun.
The wave frame is great, but we arent using riptide because its stasis. Its because it has chill clip which makes it deal wth 2 champs.
Can we talk about how great it is that the 2nd encounter boss doesn’t really stomp you at least above water to they don’t.
The fun part is the running for about 20mins :D best and hardest encounter there!
The navigator actually does a good chunk of damage as well as applying sever for a debuff
You get woven mail from shooting enemies as well. Gives warlocks a way of getting woven mail from range.
Slight correction, you can buy the exact amount of silver needed for a season. They added a 1500+200 silver pack just before the season launched.
I've done all the dungeons solo flawless, I'm quite good at it, and I'm sure i could get this done rather quickly. BUT, i went to do a test run, got to the second encounter, first damage phase, and immediately got physicsd into a wall and insta-killed by the boss. I've never been this disappointed with how the solo feels versus the 3 player experience. With my day one team, it was phenomenal, way more fun than i expected. Doing it solo, there's way too many things that don't make sense. The boss shields seem to not take consistent damage from all sources, arby one shots both boss shields, but i had a combination of damage on the first boss reach a million damage, and he still had shield. The first boss comes out of the water too soon before the wrathborn knight spawns, meaning even if you insta kill it, he can slam you into a wall before you can even do any damage sometimes. And the final boss teleports to inconsistently to be fun. She doesn't seem to teleport to any specific points, just wherever she feels like, and we had one damage phase where she teleported nearly 10 times by the end.
I hate when other people say this, but it honestly feels like nobody at Bungie even tried to solo the dungeon before it came out. Duality felt like a fun and interesting puzzle to figure out what the most optimal way to solo was, while this feels like trying to figure out what's make that intermittent squeaking sound in your car. Frustrating the whole way through.
I got the navigator to drop for me this morning and I’ve been running it with the new warlock trace rifle helmet. The artifact mods for strand really makes the trace rifle pop off. Constantly applying sever and unraveling while also making ammo for the homies thanks to the helmet is fantastic
8:39 the main advantage of it right now is you can get unlimited unraveling rounds on it without strand on due to the artifact mod that gives unraveling rounds when you get woven mail. With this you not only get a pretty decent primary with the other unraveling damage buff artifact mod, but you can also get effectively focusing lens for void and arc abilities making it seasonally a pretty good option.
The worst thing about Simmumah is not her health (although that is bad), it’s that she’s literally just a normal sized Wizard that has normal Wizard behavior.
Like she is the size of a red bar ad, with the health of Nezarec. Rockets can suck because she can just randomly decide to sidestep. Snipers/LFRs can suck because of the tiny head hitbox in conjunction with the little arm wave thing Wizards do that blocks their head hitbox. Swords suck because she is like 20 feet off the ground.
She is just a straight up bullet sponge. It’s so unfun to fight her.
Thing is about the exotic weapon is that it's VERY good when not playing a strand subclass. Think about the seasonal artifact and the top one on the fifth row. ANY strand debuff increases the damage of arc and void. Also giving yourself woven mail whilst on another subclass just lets you double dip into DR and what not.
increases the damage of void and arc abilities by... 5%. calling something "very good" for wasting a exotic slot and giving your abilities 5% more damage is a huge stretch
I really enjoyed this new dungeon, I believe it needs 2 little things to be almost perfect :
- A scaling to solo runs : Same as choosing between Legend / Master / GM, you could have a basic and solo version of it. In solo it would lock your fireteam to prevent people abusing the scaling by joining and where the bosses's health is getting a bit tuned down, and maybe the first boss's room adds spawn being a bit more spaced out. All those things are manageable and fun at 3 but I feel like it's going to be a bit too much for solo tries.
- A way to speed up some parts, and I'm thinking about the first encounter + water ones. In the Spire of the Watcher when you know what to do, you can really speed up the opening + ascension. Would have been cool to be able to trace multiple runes at the same time here for the opening, and having maybe some shortcuts in the water that are short on breath.
Overall great dungeon, the first thought that came to my mind when finishing it for the first time was to tell my fireteam that it was definitely a better raid than RoN was/is..
I’ve consistently 2 phases the final boss with linears and div with surge mods. I think this dungeon is an example of them trying to build encounters around our current power level. Which is probably what makes it so fun.
The trace gives woven mail when you sever enemies as well. Hopefully that is intentional, I love that gun so much
No skipping the dive parts. Destiny has a contractual obligation to their environment artists to make you look at their work every few years.
Root of nightmares is my favorite dungeon, and Crotas end is my favorite strike
My first time around I knew the final boss was something I wouldn’t wanna do solo. You can pretty immediately tell the last boss is no joke solo.
My group did it on master for our first run for the exotic drop chance, and it was still somewhat enjoyable at 25+ light under, and it is easily the best dungeon when at proper light
If you break the shield fast the final boss won’t teleport, that’s why sometimes it teleports and sometimes it doesn’t
if they could scale the boss' health to the fireteam size like they do for legendary/master missions, i think that would be a good idea. literally my only beef with this dungeon really
The final boss from my experimenting actually teleports to the first pool that is stood in, and about 2/3 of the way through damage the boss teleports to the center way up high before going immune. Could just be a fluke but that’s what it seemed to be during my runs
One thing that annoyed me with the final boss was that my group killed her in the middle of a teleport, which meant that her ghost wasn't where we thought it was, and she respawned. It required another damage phase. Otherwise, an excellent experience.
For my run she bugged when she was in her last damage phase, we couldn't bank the buff at any spot and had to restart.
Attention everyone: Right now the final boss fight is bugged, and quite often if you respawn without getting rezzed it will respawn you back above the encounter area with a 5 second kill timer and you will have to dive through a hole to get back. Until this is fixed, let your teammates rez you. Also, BEFORE THE ENCOUNTER STARTS, if you Witherhoard the boss, commit die, get rezzed, and quickly stick the boss with Wither again, and proceed to keep chaining withers whilst having low ammo, you can infinite tick the boss and kill it without starting the encounter. This works on master too. It takes a bit of practice, so I'd recommend looking up a guide. THIS WILL BE PATCHED. Get some quick artifice armor while you can.