This saying is my favourite as well, haha! "It's a slap in the face that Bungie changed how VOG plays from the first game" for example. Classic foolishness, hahah!
I’m down to do this if LFG’s weren’t much of a quitters. I was trying to do it with a couple of LFG’s, two people left when we failed the first encounter for the first time. This type of activities, I guess, is meant for players who already have their own team, to which I’m not one of them anymore.
i must admit i don't have this issue or ever get this argument (personally), i get most of my harder stuff done with lfg with a bit of help from tracking sites etc. - yes some groups aren't great and i'll have to bounce, but lfg isn't the barren wasteland that people make out - i think the issue is that some content is very difficult to carry one or two weaker players (its hard to figure out who these players are until you do harder content) - you kind of need to be all at a decent level - this activity in particular throws a spanner in the works as i feel the 1335 range is a decent bit harder to the 1340 range - as a result if your group is predominantly in the 1335 range you need to be close to day 1 clear good to get things done my overall point is that if you are good enough as an individual, then lfg should work out with a little bit of luck - yes some people will quit very quickly for no reason and others will quit quickly for a good reason (usually they are out of their depth, have a genuine reason to go or have worked out the team is doomed to failure regardless) - often a "nice" guy in the group will be a bit behind skill wise and not everyone has the patience to go through the motions with them for 2-3 hours for something they should get the grip of in 10-15 minutes - just where i'm at in regards to lfg after 6 years or so of experience :P obviously if you have a set good team and time to play then you are sorted regardless, i feel like available groups of 6 who are good are a bit rarer than you may think though (most people will have irregular groups, lfg or some members from their regular group won't be able to do this)
I think that a source of difficulty that Bungie doesn't tap nearly enough is enemy synergy. The two most challenging races to fight against in the game are the Scorn and the Taken, because their various abilities fill out different roles and feed into each other. This also makes them more fun to fight. This synergy, combined with the more aggressive AI these enemies are often given is the key to making raid content that is not artificially difficult.
@@AtlasNYC_ maybe they hate them cause scorn/taken are harder than the 50 thrall that run straight at you lol. Reason why the corrupted is generally agreed to be one of the hardest nfs in the game
Don’t know about you, but a taken centurion hiding in the back spamming axion darts and a taken knight spamming flames constantly are not fun or challenging to fight, they’re annoying as hell. It feels like I’m fighting enemies in mayhem while I’m playing normal crucible
"There are some encounters that feature an abundance of mechanics to generate difficulty. And guess what? People don't like that either, and they say it's too hard. You're cheesing past Riven mechanics, you're one-orbing Golgoroth, you hate Spire of Stars." ^ This desperately needed to be said
I feel Riven and Golgoroth aren't really fair. We do that because we simply have the damage to do that. Bungie didn't give Rivens body immunity to damage because reasons and Golgoroth is just so fucking weak compared to how strong we are 1 orbing him feels intentional. I wouldn't say people are cheesing those guys cause they're or they don't like the mechanics but because its just faster and more efficient and in a looter thats all you care about. When the Atheon cheese was around I made my friends kill Atheon twice. Once with the cheese they wanted to do so badly and once legit. As for spires people could just not like how spires mechanics were done. Not every mechanical raid will be liked
SoS is just badly designed. They put in a lot of work into the first encounter which was very easy to beat, even on prestige mode, the jumping puzzle is just boring, the boss fight recycles 50% of the mechanics from the pre boss fight plus is buggy. Honestly, i miss Leviathan Prestige. It gave your team a good challenge without just throwing enemies at you, everyone had to get involved and you couldn't just carry anyone through the raid. Enemies weren't just pushovers.
To be fair with Riven and Golgoroth, people will do an encounter as efficiently as they can and as quickly as they can to get the loot. Cheesing those encounters was the way to do that, and Bungie had nothing to prevent this from happening, those encounters should've been play tested more. If we didn't have those cheeses, people would learn and do the encounters, and probably wouldn't complain because the rewards were GOOD. As for SoS, the mechanic heavy fight isn't what the problem was. It was the mechanic heavy fight on top of the tons of adds that hit hard and tanked damage PLUS the very tight timing on nailing the mechanics ON TOP of the loot being a sidearm and fusion rifle that nobody cared for. Nobody wanted to do it because the difficulty/reward balance was completely off balance. The same can be said for Master VoG rn. Too difficult for too little reward. That's pretty much it, and that's pretty much the main point of criticism. Difficulty/reward balance is just not there at all.
@@ghostrick9824 Well, there was the emblem as well, haha. I don´t really think SoS was hard. The problem was people not thinking about their loadout in terms of damage reduction and survivability. I still don 't like the raid because Bungie put in a lot of work into an encounter that you just breeze through while not really paying much attention to what really matters. I mean, the boss and the last two fights...that´s just lame. My problem with VoG Master is, you have to play it like a GM without having the time to analyse spawn patterns etc. Without a team that has specific load outs you are pretty much snookered. I don't mind knuckle down to figure out how to beat it. I just don't have the right people to do it with. While I am struggling to find 2 other people in the clan to run GMs with, motivating 5 to do an encounter over and over, analyse your shortcomings and do it better is a pointless task.
this is like the most common nooby thing that i run into with lfg and clan - i don't kick off with it when inspecting people because if they don't die it's not an issue but 25% resist for free and 40% resist for double stack is more important than reserve perks - i've got a few people in my clan on a mental block list because they are nice guys and pretty good in spite of the shit armour but just make the game harder for themselves by not understanding the importance of mods
@@boxfanbourine 2 shot isn't really a thing - 1 shot in certain circumstances can be bs - and in gm's you use mods to stop snipers one shotting you for instance, but as a gameplay pattern if you get hit once you go in to cover - so people for most part getting 2 shot aren't positioning themselves correctly or the overall add clear of the team or area is poor
@@brendanbeardy9190 imo, people who continue to buy into D2 solely for the PvP aren't making the most fiscally-sound decisions. Unless they just want the new guns in which case, fair enough I guess.
8:24 This is the point that I number one agree with; Extra mechanics, while hard when learning, become easy to do when the enemies don't disrupt you enough, especially in the sandbox of Warmind Cells, Charged with Light, Well, and Resist mods. The combat must be on par with the mechanics so the player must focus both their time on ads and tasks. 9:49 Also truth.
“The overload Minotaur running at you doesn’t care about your light level.” 😂 yeah pretty much, I’ll still get bodied by them if I’m not paying attention in override
I like a good challenge, the raid on its own was fun and I enjoyed the modifiers. However, the loot is EXTREMELY stingy especially given that you can’t do both normal and master in one week for drops. It just feels so out of touch with the rest of the reward structure in destiny pve right now.
MAN all the callouts at people who cheese raid mechanics instead of actually doing them the right way was just *chefs kiss*. I LOVE it. The community asks for shit they don't actually want ALL THE EFFING TIME and I'm so happy someone checks them on this shit.
It's sort of a double edged sword though. Players take the path of least resistance, even if it's less fun. I love to two ball taniks, its so much more fun and dynamic, makes use of all the roles, but no one does it because its just objectively worse. The responsibility is on Bungie to tweak difficulty and patch to adjust for player behavior, not us to self-moderate.
@Sauceinmyface No I don't think that's true. Because players will also complain any time a mechanic, whether it's objectively fun or not, takes too long to complete. And the mark of a good raid mechanic these days is how challenging it is on day one to execute. On top of that, whether a mechanic is fun or not is always subjective.
@@AtlasNYC_ Potentially, but players will always hate when there's resistance between them and desirable loot. This is just inherent. Solo players bemoan that they are underrepresented and unfairly kept away from weapons. Some players hate nightfalls and raids for not having in game matchmaking for players to carry them. Remember when good PVE guns were locked behind PVP and everyone complained? DSC is beloved by many because they didn't wipe on it a dozen times in order to clear it after contest. The fact of the matter is that the game is a looter shooter, and many people are addicted to the loot. They also hate confronting the idea that they can't have everything if they aren't willing to meet the game halfway in terms of difficulty or finding others to play with.
And in order to address that, it falls on Bungie to make a stance. If loot continues to be more easily accessible due to cheese, then the solution is to adjust it to be harder, no? I do the path of least resistance on my reclears because they are what they are. If the raid was changed, I wouldn't mind. I loved the master VOG experience. I was disappointed by how stingy the loot was, but I loved the challenge on day one. I hope to see master on all raids, especially DSC and LW, to have those raids make people show some respect.
A lot of valid points, but the worst thing about about the artifact grind is that it is not a one time thing - next season we will likely have to do it all over again over the course of many weaks, just to get to reasonable difficulty for master VoG again. Contest mode would solve this problem. Honestly, after a year of artifact power grind, it gets stale, and I don't see myself grinding boring filler content for multiple weeks just to be able to play VoG reasonably.
They need to let some artifact levels carry over for the players who have hit level 20 on the past couple seasons (or something like this). I mean it freaking hurts seeing that drop back to 0 every season and having to do the same boring shit over and over. There needs to be some kinda incentive.
dawg it isnt hard to sit in thrallway all night or do moon repeatables. i was +16 3 days before master vog and i was +20 going into it, and i maybe spent 4 hours actually playing the game.
@@dandy1892 I mean sure if you got all the boosters from the season pass which vog being free content means not everyone who can play has it. ( I didn't cause seasonal content hasn't been enjoyable and is just have a good gun if even that, looking at you season of the hunt, this one didn't even have an exotic) so it just ends up being ridiculous. If your 100 on the battle pass your still not able to do gms. So you gotta grind a bit more for that +15. But at that point how much content is left in the game? Do challenges that are just glorified bounties? Do bounties which are braindead and unfun? It isn't that the work is hard, it's that it's unenjoyable and stale. Tell me do you attentively play destiny 2 when doing thrallway or are you listening or watching something on the side? Cause shooting enemies running at you in a straight line isn't fun. For what? To get a number higher so you can do an activity. I rather they have all content function like contest and remove light levels. And to lock content from less capable players have activity requirements. Want to do gms? Do 5 masters or a master without dying, want to do masters? Gotta do 5 legends and so on and so forth.
Idc that the power level of the raid is as high at is, but if you’re gonna make the grind that harsh at least make it fun, so many skilled players won’t attempt this because they don’t want to do the extremely boring and repetitive power grind and that’s a fair way of thinking. To me bungie either needs to lower the levels on the raid or make obtaining those higher levels more engaging and not mind numbingly boring
I agree, i also think they should gove master mode something more on each clear than just some prisms and shards potentially. When you are at that level where you do master vog you could just instead do normal vog and some master/gm runs for better loot. Loot from each encounter should be doubled imo
It just needs to have contest mode on. This creates static difficulty without forcing you to grind to +15 minimum. It's incredibly frustrating that the only true "high level" PvE endgame is locked behind such a boring grind.
Easy fix. Do raid? Get big xp. Do Nightfall? Get big xp. Go flawless in trials? Get big xp. Like in every other MMO, where you get more xp for doing hard content. I don't get why Bungie has decided that easy, tedious, repetitive tasks should be the ultimate way to power level. It's so dumb and makes no sense that high level activities don't give xp in any meaningful volume.
There’s so incredibly many emblems nowadays that, imo, nobody sees an emblem anymore and goes ‘ah yes, you’ve done this thing to deserve that emblem! Very good’. I used to see rare emblems back in D1 and almost get starstruck, and now I don’t know where anything is from and don’t really pay attention to what emblem people are using unless it’s like a trials one, cause those are so incredibly obvious.
@@cmdrmeldoc59 about once a week I have somone mention my solo flawless prophecy emblem. People who know notice even if they don't mention it. I notice emblems and it makes my mind come to ease on their skill
I used to think that the difficulty was inflated and didn’t see the value in it, but now I absolutely love it. I very much enjoy just completing the master nightfalls or tougher raid encounters, and I think that this is what separates Destiny from other looters that just don’t have super high end content.
@@adamsmith5119 no, because VoG is completely the same for everyone that goes into it and will be every time. You can improve, you can learn, you can master it. Trials is completely dependent on the enemy team being a bunch of shitters or not, multiple times in a row.
To the "more enemies not tougher enemies" folk, go to the thrall room with wrath of Rasputin and rage of the warmind and put on sunshot. the room will clear itself after 1 kill perpetually and that's how most encounters will go with that mindset.
Same with necrotic grips. Im pretty sure there was a straight up clip of a warlock emote sittihg, sipping coffee es the entire room kept perpetually dying from the continuous poison spread.
“You’re cheesing Riven! You’re one orbing Golgoroth! You hate Spire of Stars!” This is now in my top Datto quotes of all time list. Riven legit is the best destiny experience hands down, and people are so willing to blow by it, due to either laziness or contempt to being challenged. It’s such a shame.
None of the timelost weapons are of any interest to me unfortunately and I think bungie really fails to hit the mark on these types of drops from endgame content. I have a God roll preydyths revenge; so what would the timelost offer besides an adept mod slot and a slight bump in stats? I'll probably do it just to say I completed it but theres little to no value for me personally apart from the "I was there" aspect of it.
I am happy with the loot TBH, I got an Ultimate Godroll Rocket Laucher Impulse Amplifier, Overflow, Vorpal and Cluster Bombs I would have loved AOT Armor instead of "High Stat" Armor, The guns are fine imo
@Pure That could work if it wasn't going to power creep or infringe on the "balance" of pve, I'd appreciate that addition just cause of it potentially bringing more life to those weapons as you said.
I don't even play this type of content and I COMPLETELY understand that sometimes, not every mode in a game should be made available for everyone. People just need to deal with it.
"you're cheesing past riven, you're one orbing Golgoroth (now theres a throwback and a half), and you hate spire of stars"... never have i agreed with a quote that calls me out more that this one does but DAMN if it aint true... still need to find a squad for riven legit tho... looks fun AF
I just did a run with randoms up to oracles and had to leave. Before that, my mates which I’ve played with for almost a year couldn’t keep their plates during opening encounter. It felt really good.
I raid a lot, but im on the other side of that equation. I dont car to GM and the mods systems ( charged with light, warm mind cells, etc.. ) never pulled me in and i just dont like what it takes away in my armor. I've messed around with it and rolled back immediately. It would probably help if bungie put that stuff in its own slot that didnt take away movement and amo perks for people like me and the rest of your clan to use them.
“Shards are considerably rarer” nah enhancement cores I have to actually do the dismantle the blue gear after upgrading it cuz I have Max enhancement prisms on like 2 of my characters postmasters
It's a tough pill to swallow, honestly, for people that just probably never will be good enough. That is almost certainly me. But I think Elitist Datto (and I know others) make a good argument here.
Before this season I never really dabbled in the really high level endgame PVE and bc of VoG returning I decided I might as well give it a shot. Fast forward a month and I’m farming GM nightfalls and master VoG best I can because I really did miss the challenge of higher difficulty stuff. Elitist Datto is right, and the superior datto. These things aren’t meant to be done by everyone in the game, they’re challenging and rewarding for a reason.
Even hotter take, most of the community needs to learn that a lot of gear isn’t accessible to them. I’m not great at d2 pvp, so I know I won’t see most trials loot. And I’m fine with that as aspirational gear is needed
@@st1k3r63 The thing is that this is not just a Destiny thing. It’s not a gamer thing. It’s a societal thing (I hate to go into it but it’s true). People think that everything should be easily accessible and basically given to them with little requirement or work. As far as the video game thing goes… A lot of old time gamers know that back in the day there were just games that you simply did not beat and that was ok. Hell some games that you did beat took absolutely forever and there was no “saving your progress.” Those are straight up gamers that lived in that world and loved it.
@@ghst5980 while i entirely agree, the people who this content is designed for usually play enough to get +20 from the artifact in a season. Those seasonal challenges are op for exp
I would like to see the weekly timelost lockout removed, and all challenges being active during Master-mode (not required just active) This way I can get multiple timelost weapons in a run Also, maybe make it so that armor is guranteed to drop at master mode a part from the normal mode loot
I agree but that will never happen because then we can grind at our own pace for things we actually want. If its not exp grinding, we won't be allowed to grind for it.
In a few weeks no one will be running this because most of the community does not use the charged with light and warmind cells stuff. If 10% of the 10% of the destiny community that raids slows down they won't add more difficulty like unstoppable wyverns. They will either prove to someone at headquarters this was a waste and never do it again or they will slowly nerf the hard mode.
This is the datto I love! Keep it up because we need someone to make some players realize get good Is the answer. Instead of ‘Bungie needs to fix this.’
My clan is super active on d2. So it just depends on who ur playing with. Of course it'll be a "dead game" to anyone who doesn't have people to play it with. There's a clan system in place, but people choose to stay glued to dead clans
It’s a dead game tbh either way. I constantly saw almost no people playing, then switching to another clan just to see a lot of people playing it, then people leaving the game and repeating the process. When you’re forced to switch places, then there’s something wrong that makes people not stay as long. Only clans that have very active players are the ones that kicks you out if you don’t play at least 6 hours a day of D2. I still play this game, but it became this sad reality.
This was a good wake up call. My team got frustrated last night cos it was so difficult, I'm looking to trying again and doing my best to "git gud" lellll
My only complaint: a lot of master mode difficulty (and high end pve in general) comes in the form of simply making everything ohk you. I mean it gets the job done of making things harder, but it doesn't necessarily make things fun (at least for me imo). Edit: after watching the video, I see datto addresses this point. Here's some of my counter points: 7:17 - See, that's the thing. I am not opposed to the idea of "playing differently"; it's the "differnet" playstyle that the game asks of you isn't fun for me 8:17 - I agree raid mechanics are more of a "placeholder" solution since people will eventually overcome those too. I think a good middle ground would be rotating modifiers (which they already do now), that way the rng of which combination you get changes how you play week-by-week. Imo there should be special modifiers that are unique to raids to maybe spice things up in difficulty 8:32 - Well tbf, the way guardians power is rn, the difference between 10 trash mobs and 50 are neglible when I can make them all disappear with my pocket nuke. So I wouldn't call "more adds" a challenge, which you seem to agree 9:28 - Well, maybe I ain't like those people. Ig it a bit hypocritical to say "Fuck people who hate more mechanics" as I hate the mechanic of "spongier ohk enemies", but whatever. I rather have fun in something that makes me think rather than hide in cover for 10 minutes pretending I'm in an irl gunfight. 11:18 - I guess I am in the camp of people who'd rather not be challenge rather than be challenged in a way that is unfun. Note that challenge and unfun are not the same word, and there's ways to do one without the other 10:11 - Looking forward to that other video 12:24 - I agree. Ig this mode isn't for me, but if it is for you (or anyone who enjoy this), more power to them
This is pretty spot on, with destiny’s gameplay designed the way it is, I can imagine it’s pretty challenging to make harder endgame pve activities without handicapping players in various ways.
I don't know if you'll see this Datto but what a fantastic fucking video. You did a phenomenal job explaining why the raid should have been (and was) challenging while also considering its accessibility and the "type" of difficulty. You are getting better at analyzing/discussing the game, which is kind of crazy given that you were already among the best at it, and you've been doing it for 7+ years. Keep it up man, this was 22 minutes of straight fire. Edit: Also I think that a long video about difficulty in Destiny would be super interesting and hopefully you'll consider making such a video.
At the risk of sounding like a conformist no original thoughts D2 player, Datto is right about the whole power level being ready point. I completed Master vog at 1336. I was at this point because I only cared about getting high enough for gm’s. Once I hit that point I don’t level any further. Now I’m faced with a dilema do I grind bounties for power so I don’t get fucked up by Atheon on my subsequent runs. I hate grinding bounties. I think it’s the most boring thing ever, but I have to do it if I want to make the raid easier. I don’t think it’s wrong to have Master vog be significantly higher light than other activities. It’s just that getting to that high point is such a tedious time consuming process. Sorry if this went to long and I seem like a bitch boy who wants all content to be a cake walk.
@@flopre9213 you are right with that, but even then you would still be 10 under. I have constantly hit 20 artifact power every season by just playing it and doing all the quests and triumphs. It seems of you want to go beyond that point you have to grind for it.
thank G O D the beginning of this video is exactly what I was telling people on Reddit and they all started whining and bitching at me that they didn’t want to have to level to go after Master mode. It was infuriating. “Sometimes hardcore content is locked behind hardcore requirements to enter.” chaddo datto spitting pure FACTS BABY The artificial difficulty comment is also funny as fuck. Thank Christ I can agree with someone. “Not everything in the game SHOULD be comfortable.” Gospel to my ears. Thank fuck. I’m creaming. I needed this video after the hair pulling I almost indulged in last night.
I like things being difficult to complete, but I would be lying if I said that I was okay with the current artifact system. The fact that someone can go in the course of a single season from a dedicated player that can attempt the difficult content to someone that has to grind again to become worthy of attempting the challenge is somewhat frustrating. If I successfully completed the raid on contest or master that should prove that I have the weapons and skill to do a difficult activity. The problem I have with artifact-locking the master raid is that it doesn't lock out players from completing it through a skill requirement but an "amount of time I can spend leveling this particular season" requirement. Artifact level isn't equal to skill.
I ran it with my team, we’re still on gatekeeper after 8 hours of running it but I LIKE THAT, I’ve been running gms since arrivals and after the first time they’re just not that hard, having to really pay attention and being constantly stressed during encounters makes it feel absolutely worth the time
'No new mechanics' this factor is actually because the 'new mechanics' from previous hard mode raids were literally just the standard raid mechanics, and then they dumbed them down and removed some for the normal mode releases. Bungie not adding 'new mechanics' isn't them not wanting to make stuff harder, they just aren't making stuff easier as the default now.
For more difficult content I would argue that we need some of this “Artificial Difficulty” as you wouldn’t want to play a GM with all the red bars falling over from a small breeze like they do in easier content. But they do need to lean into the mechanic side a lot more than they do now. Atheon on Master could have you shoot oracles in multiple different orders instead of just 1,2,3. What if Templar had 2 Teleports to block and Oracles were made a little more hectic? What if Gatekeepers was more of a time crunch? Bungo should try these things out and work with the community on them instead of being fearful of trying new things. I admire the work they put in tho, no hate to the devs or anyone working there.
I only have a problem with overload champions, they half the time are literally ignoring my stun weapon entirely and rushing me, it’s inconsistent and I get punished for doing the right thing
Content shouldn’t be fed to everyone, some people just can’t do it, and that’s how it should be. Not everything has to be overly accessible, you need to work up to beating something, or you can’t get it. Agree 100%
@@anonuser4806 this game doesnt and never had power creep, and we werent on the track to it, we just keep getting pure garbage weapons and when they are even alittle good and desirable their yanked away form us with bungie wagging their finger "No No. you dont get this"
@@TheFallinhalo I know that this game doesn't and never had power creep. I was simply referring to Bungo's reasoning for sunsetting which was purely bullshit, alongside their many other reasons/promises, such as "renewed focus on pvp" and "we didn't want trials (in reference to trials of osiris) to come back half baked" and so many more.
People don’t want difficult content to be challenged. People want to see others struggle while they pass it so they can brag and show off their difficult loot.
Loved this video. Loved the brutally honest comments. Not all content for everyone. Very true and people that aren't prepared for challenging content shouldn't be attempting. This is for people that are ready for the highest of difficulty.
@@Lady_Amelia-Eloise define elitism tho? The man said nothing wrong. Higher end content is made for players that aren't challenged by the basic grind. The people who aren't challenged by the basic grind are the ones who have done it so much & for so long they are easily bungie's main contributers & play the game near religiously. Why make the highest tiers of pve more casual friendly & loose that audience by not providing them with a sufficient challenge?
@@_holldacheesss so basically keep the rest player base down, and only keep in mind what the elitist have to say when the rest of the player base have better ideas than them because at times, they only play the game because it was revolves around them and pays them.whenever bungie does something they don't like they bitch and complain until it gets changed or they leave because they aren't getting what they want then bungie keeps it that way so they can keep them, heck the dam "community summit" it isn't a summit for the community when it's filled with just content creators and what they want and then say that the community wants that when that's not actually what the community wanted. A real community summit would be actually bring the community of destiny showing us what they are thinking and asking us what we think and asking for ideas and criticism from the community not inviting content creators to kisses there ass.
@@Archangel_349 not at all, dumbing down the highest tiers of pve to meet casual expectations no longer makes it the highest tier. If you can't expect people to play the game and grow their skill at the game for those highest tier activities then why make the activities at all?
@@_holldacheesss I don't agree with the first part about what Angelus said but he does bring up a point about the community summit. How many times has the playerbase brought an issue to the devs of Bungie for it to be solely ignored or years? How long did it take Bungie to nerf Luna and Not Forgotten when they became so dominant in the pvp landscape? Despite all the messages about how it was impossible to fight back against the hand cannons, it wasn't until some of the content creators were saying that it was too strong that they finally nerfed the guns.
We need more challenging activities in the game. VOG master is a step in the right direction, but it still needs a few improvements regarding loot. I hope we can see more of this when Witch Queen launches. I miss the challenge and the clutch moments Destiny used to give us before.
The funnest thing I have ever done in Destiny that was very challenging was - Being able to duo most of the deep stone crypt raid due to harmless exploits and game design bugs.
Finally someone acknowledges the fact that more enemies does not make it more difficult. In fact it usually makes it easier because most of the damage perks and ability spam builds rely on shredding enough enemies quickly enough. It’s just gives you more super energy when they turn up the ad spawns without making them more dangerous, have more health or both.
Datto says lets talk ab our friend artificial difficulty, instantly after saying that i get an ad of bugs bunny saying whats up doc, the timing was phenomenal
I think it's a really good piece. I can see how elitist Datto opinion may not end up being the most popular with the general D2 playerbase (or general gamer audience even) but a lot of those people would throw a hissy fit over less. Very well made points and honestly nothing really to add. Good one, Datto.
I tried master vog this afternoon before work(1332) and even tho I didnt make it past templar when I normally faceroll the entire raid, I liked it.. I'll get more power and try again tomorrow. Good video
I completely agree with these statements. Even as a player that can't do GMs and has only ever done one in my life. I like that there is challenging content that is hopefully going to gatekeep the best items in the game. GIVE ME REASONS TO RAID.
Candid Datto is my favorite Datto. If you want the best look, try and try again until you succeed. I tried GM's for the first time last summer and never completed one. Spent a couple months watching videos, theory crafting and playing and now I can clear them with some patience and effort. Good to know that loot isn't super plentiful for master mode, so I won't waste my time trying to endlessly farm stuff.
I just watched up to about the 14 minute mark as I make this comment, but I gotta say, I agree with the sentiment of "The game should be a challenge to the player when it's presented that way" that I'm getting so far. It was hell to try and go through yesterday with a LFG group, but after a few hours we made it past Templar and that was so satisfying. I know that fight so well from playing since D1, but having to focus on so many things going on around me as the Relic holder was *exciting* again. It made the fight feel tense, it gave me a kind of challenge I hadn't been used to in a while. I didn't know what I was getting into from the start because I've never even done a Grandmaster before (never got high enough light level to feel safe trying), but after going through the roughly 6 hours of it that I have, it was fun all in all. If people aren't up for it? Well, not everybody can beat all the content the game puts out, and that's okay, having challenges not all players can beat because of the challenge it presents to you is probably a good thing for the health of a game's balance. It took time for me to adapt to the extra Champions coming out because the Minotaurs woke up on the wrong side of life and Guardians are to blame, but after adapting to when and where they spawned, it added a level of "I need to pay attention again" because hey, things can actually just swat me away in a second if I'm lazy or overconfident. All in all, extra optional challenging mode for the raid is Good in my eyes
Im actually happy with this. I was afraid they were just gonna throw a shit ton of modifiers on top of a super high PL but im happy with how they did it a couple modifiers and champions
It would be easier to swallow if they didn't lock so much delicious loot behind it. They need to make it less about the reward and more about the challenge.
@@shark471 Yeah, but if there wasn't any good loot behind it, why would you do it? Trust me, I love games that are all about the challenge (I've played Dark Souls and Bloodborne way to many times), but for a game like destiny you need some kind of extra reason to do it. Imagine if it took ya two days a fourteen hours to beat the master raid, and all you got was a triumph and maybe an emblem. One that's kind of just disheartening, and two, a triumph and an emblem is not a really good reason to do that kind of thing. Or, let me rephrase that, for someone who's a completionist, that's a good enough reason potentially, for anyone who's not, a triumph or emblem is almost meaningless. And while the argument is made that this content is for completionist like people, it's not too hard to get an artifact power of 15, 17, maybe even 20 by the end of the season, it's not exactly easy, but even if your playing on and off it's possible. So for those people who do just get to that power level by just playing the game you do need some kind of reason to do something like Master VoG. And I mean, just look at the game play, that looks really hard, you deserve at least the chance of something cool for doing it. And none of this is to even say that the loot you get from master VoG is worth it all, and according to Datto, it doesn't really seem like it is. Anyway TL;DR, Master VoG looks hard, and you should be given cool stuff for doing hard things. And exclusivity on loot isn't always bad, there should be incentive to do the hardest things in the game (for a game like destiny at the very least), and I mean the kind of incentive you can shoot aliens with.
I disagree. I paid for the content. I’m a decent player. I LOVE raiding. But im 1328 and there’s no way im grinding to 1335-1340 doing content that I’ve done enough of already over and over that I don’t enjoy.
@@tombombadil3589 That's true, but at the same time, there are plenty of people who will grind to 1335 - 1340, don't they deserve something not only for getting there, but also doing a very challenging activity. I understand that you paid for the content (actually though I'm not sure if VoG was part of a season or something given to everyone, but I believe it was given to everyone, if I'm wrong please tell me) but every game also requires some amount of time spent which is completely up to the players. What I'm trying to say is that your right, there should be a floor or bare minimum that anyone can get to and be satisfied with, but there should also be a ceiling for player's who are willing or able to go the extra mile, and there should be at least some incentive to go for that ceiling, otherwise why put it in the game?
This season is probably the hardest I’ve ever hit the grind in this game. I specifically went for everything, grandmaster nightfalls, master empire hunts, everything in an attempt to prepare myself for master Vog. But nothing, NOTHING, prepared me for the gut wrenching realization that we couldn’t even make it past the door. I had to go back to my group of friends and tell them. “It ain’t happening gamers.” Mind you, this was a fireteam of 1335+ just utterly unable to even build the spire. We tried for hours. I WANTED master Vog to be hard. 1350 though... it’s just too steep. It was more than a slap to the face. It was a throat punch, spit in the eye, and a piss goodbye. I’m not giving up. I’m still trying to hit the grind to reach 1340 and I’ve encouraged my friends to do the same, but after such a demoralizing show at the spire, my team doesn’t want to feel humiliated. I’m not asking for a hand out, but to feel utterly outclassed in a raid that we’ve done every challenge for, it’s just a terrible feeling. 1340-1345 is all I’m asking.
Need to get the "gameplay mastery" of doing 500 bounties for artifact levels. Difficulty should be actual difficulty not needing a to have a set number be big enough for something to be playable. This shouldn't be a controversial statement
You know what. Everything Datto said here is straight facts. People who aren’t at the top tier (myself included) should not bitch and moan saying that the content that is MEANT for the top tier should be easy and accessible to all people. I am never going to do this master raid, and guess what. I don’t care, because playing to be the best and trying to overcome the greatest of challenges isn’t for me. People need to stop acting like they’re supposed to be able to do this kind of stuff and then complain when they can’t. If everybody was able to be the best, you wouldn’t be the best. The main problem I have with these complainers is that they are the same people who complain about stuff like the Quria fight being too easy. They want all “impactful and important” content to be uber-difficult, but will then complain because it isn’t an easily accessible and easily accomplished activity. Guess what, if you want it to be difficult, it shouldn’t be. Guess what else, ARTIFICIAL DIFFICULTY IS THE ONLY WAY TO INCREASE DIFFICULTY. Like Datto said, mechanical difficulty is only difficult until you understand. Artificial difficulty requires the constant adaptation and mastery of the game that stuff like master and gm activities are supposed to require. In my eyes, there are three tiers of difficulty. The Basic Game (Legend Difficulty is the top of this tier) Mechanically difficult activities (Raids and dungeons) Artificially Difficult Activities (Master and GM activities) Most of the game should be at basic difficulty, and it is. Quria is not a hard fight, because its a part of the story that Bungie wants players to be part of. Raids and dungeons are how bungie adds difficulty to the base tier of the game’s activities. Mechanics and teamwork are hard, but totally within the reach of most people. That being said, raids and dungeons take a lot of resources, and I’m sure if Bungie had them available, Quria would have been in a dungeon. Unfortunately, those resources are currently being used for Witch Queen, so we get Quria as a story mission. It is what it is. Notice that the highest tier of content is not related to the story. Bungie knows that most people won’t play it, so they don’t make it important to the world of the game. That’s the end of the story. Strive to be better, but be happy with the parts of the game you are able to play. This community is by and large quite ungrateful considering how much awesome content Bungie has given us, and people need to stop complaining about parts of the game that aren’t suited to their tastes.
combat challenge increase and new mechanics are the perfect balance to making master mode much better. also master mode should've had Age of Triumph ornaments as loot
A good strat for master oracles is having 2 omnioculus hunters constantly invissing the 2 groups of 3 on each side. That's how me and my team got through it until we stalled at templar. :)
Favorite buzzword/phrase: POWER CREEP. Sounds like the name of an indie punk band
Power Creep should be the free space in Datto Bingo
Enemy density >
Sunset
It actually does, and a dope ass name for it
Someone tried telling me the moon and dreaming city weapons had their perks removed because of power creep.
Calling things "a slap in the face" is my favorite to see, it's almost like a free space on the Bingo chart.
Id say enemy density
It’s right up there with “half baked”
kick in the teeth
:( that was me when they removed the chronicler title when I was a week away from completing it
This saying is my favourite as well, haha! "It's a slap in the face that Bungie changed how VOG plays from the first game" for example. Classic foolishness, hahah!
I’m down to do this if LFG’s weren’t much of a quitters. I was trying to do it with a couple of LFG’s, two people left when we failed the first encounter for the first time. This type of activities, I guess, is meant for players who already have their own team, to which I’m not one of them anymore.
What platform do you play on?
If you are on steam I’m down I’m on 1335
On steam I’m 340 hit me up bro 😎
lol come on
i must admit i don't have this issue or ever get this argument (personally), i get most of my harder stuff done with lfg with a bit of help from tracking sites etc. - yes some groups aren't great and i'll have to bounce, but lfg isn't the barren wasteland that people make out - i think the issue is that some content is very difficult to carry one or two weaker players (its hard to figure out who these players are until you do harder content) - you kind of need to be all at a decent level - this activity in particular throws a spanner in the works as i feel the 1335 range is a decent bit harder to the 1340 range - as a result if your group is predominantly in the 1335 range you need to be close to day 1 clear good to get things done
my overall point is that if you are good enough as an individual, then lfg should work out with a little bit of luck - yes some people will quit very quickly for no reason and others will quit quickly for a good reason (usually they are out of their depth, have a genuine reason to go or have worked out the team is doomed to failure regardless) - often a "nice" guy in the group will be a bit behind skill wise and not everyone has the patience to go through the motions with them for 2-3 hours for something they should get the grip of in 10-15 minutes - just where i'm at in regards to lfg after 6 years or so of experience :P
obviously if you have a set good team and time to play then you are sorted regardless, i feel like available groups of 6 who are good are a bit rarer than you may think though (most people will have irregular groups, lfg or some members from their regular group won't be able to do this)
Elitist datto is finally back, I thought I would never see the day.
Hes the hero we need, but not the one we deserve
Praise the lord
Will we have master mode for vog only for solstice of will it be permanently?
@@Lyubov-owo it's forever, it just lined up with Solstice. Dunno where you got the idea it was limited time though
@@lucinev nah i was just suspecting that it's only solstice only
I think that a source of difficulty that Bungie doesn't tap nearly enough is enemy synergy. The two most challenging races to fight against in the game are the Scorn and the Taken, because their various abilities fill out different roles and feed into each other. This also makes them more fun to fight. This synergy, combined with the more aggressive AI these enemies are often given is the key to making raid content that is not artificially difficult.
Hate to break it to ya bud but as a collective, the community hates both taken and scorn enemies lmaoooo
@@AtlasNYC_ maybe they hate them cause scorn/taken are harder than the 50 thrall that run straight at you lol. Reason why the corrupted is generally agreed to be one of the hardest nfs in the game
Don’t know about you, but a taken centurion hiding in the back spamming axion darts and a taken knight spamming flames constantly are not fun or challenging to fight, they’re annoying as hell. It feels like I’m fighting enemies in mayhem while I’m playing normal crucible
@@DarkKosmic ofc that specific combo is annoying, but they can make encounters with them separately supporting other taken enemies.
Love taken hate scorn
"...which brings us smoothly to the next paragraph." A transition god.
"There are some encounters that feature an abundance of mechanics to generate difficulty. And guess what? People don't like that either, and they say it's too hard. You're cheesing past Riven mechanics, you're one-orbing Golgoroth, you hate Spire of Stars."
^ This desperately needed to be said
I feel Riven and Golgoroth aren't really fair. We do that because we simply have the damage to do that. Bungie didn't give Rivens body immunity to damage because reasons and Golgoroth is just so fucking weak compared to how strong we are 1 orbing him feels intentional. I wouldn't say people are cheesing those guys cause they're or they don't like the mechanics but because its just faster and more efficient and in a looter thats all you care about.
When the Atheon cheese was around I made my friends kill Atheon twice. Once with the cheese they wanted to do so badly and once legit.
As for spires people could just not like how spires mechanics were done. Not every mechanical raid will be liked
SoS is just badly designed. They put in a lot of work into the first encounter which was very easy to beat, even on prestige mode, the jumping puzzle is just boring, the boss fight recycles 50% of the mechanics from the pre boss fight plus is buggy. Honestly, i miss Leviathan Prestige. It gave your team a good challenge without just throwing enemies at you, everyone had to get involved and you couldn't just carry anyone through the raid. Enemies weren't just pushovers.
To be fair with Riven and Golgoroth, people will do an encounter as efficiently as they can and as quickly as they can to get the loot. Cheesing those encounters was the way to do that, and Bungie had nothing to prevent this from happening, those encounters should've been play tested more. If we didn't have those cheeses, people would learn and do the encounters, and probably wouldn't complain because the rewards were GOOD.
As for SoS, the mechanic heavy fight isn't what the problem was. It was the mechanic heavy fight on top of the tons of adds that hit hard and tanked damage PLUS the very tight timing on nailing the mechanics ON TOP of the loot being a sidearm and fusion rifle that nobody cared for. Nobody wanted to do it because the difficulty/reward balance was completely off balance.
The same can be said for Master VoG rn. Too difficult for too little reward. That's pretty much it, and that's pretty much the main point of criticism. Difficulty/reward balance is just not there at all.
@@ghostrick9824 Well, there was the emblem as well, haha. I don´t really think SoS was hard. The problem was people not thinking about their loadout in terms of damage reduction and survivability. I still don 't like the raid because Bungie put in a lot of work into an encounter that you just breeze through while not really paying much attention to what really matters. I mean, the boss and the last two fights...that´s just lame.
My problem with VoG Master is, you have to play it like a GM without having the time to analyse spawn patterns etc. Without a team that has specific load outs you are pretty much snookered. I don't mind knuckle down to figure out how to beat it. I just don't have the right people to do it with. While I am struggling to find 2 other people in the clan to run GMs with, motivating 5 to do an encounter over and over, analyse your shortcomings and do it better is a pointless task.
Spire was also incredibly buggy which was a much bigger issue for the boss encounter, than the mechanical difficulty
My LFG fireteam was complaining about being "one-shot" by stuff. I checked their chests, and none of them were running resist mods...
Agree, but getting 2 shot is lame as well. Full disclosure, ive yet to try master vog.
lol always. no resist + no protective light "waaaaaaahhhhh im getting one shot and i cant do anythinng about it, artificial difficulty!!!!!!"
this is like the most common nooby thing that i run into with lfg and clan - i don't kick off with it when inspecting people because if they don't die it's not an issue but 25% resist for free and 40% resist for double stack is more important than reserve perks - i've got a few people in my clan on a mental block list because they are nice guys and pretty good in spite of the shit armour but just make the game harder for themselves by not understanding the importance of mods
@@boxfanbourine 2 shot isn't really a thing - 1 shot in certain circumstances can be bs - and in gm's you use mods to stop snipers one shotting you for instance, but as a gameplay pattern if you get hit once you go in to cover - so people for most part getting 2 shot aren't positioning themselves correctly or the overall add clear of the team or area is poor
@@drewjackson6403 what is this witchcraft protective light you talk about :D
Buzzword: “A renewed focus on PvP”
that one hurt.
I should slap you for pointing out how bungie keeps the money flowing
Datto said BUZZwords not MURDERwords
@@brendanbeardy9190 imo, people who continue to buy into D2 solely for the PvP aren't making the most fiscally-sound decisions. Unless they just want the new guns in which case, fair enough I guess.
When he says "Full Auto" when talking about the rockets, he means "Overflow"
whoops
Full auto rocket launchers? Sign me up
Rockets go brr
@@DattoDoesDestiny Y1 Wardcliff vibes
@@raven75257 Laughs in Wardcliff Coil and Eyes of Tomorrow
8:24 This is the point that I number one agree with; Extra mechanics, while hard when learning, become easy to do when the enemies don't disrupt you enough, especially in the sandbox of Warmind Cells, Charged with Light, Well, and Resist mods. The combat must be on par with the mechanics so the player must focus both their time on ads and tasks.
9:49 Also truth.
“The overload Minotaur running at you doesn’t care about your light level.” 😂 yeah pretty much, I’ll still get bodied by them if I’m not paying attention in override
I read this comment at the SAME exact time Datto was saying it 😂
I’m not even going to play Master VOG, but im still watching for elitist Datto.
Favorite buzzword: Those Rare Blue Quality Sparrows......
I like a good challenge, the raid on its own was fun and I enjoyed the modifiers. However, the loot is EXTREMELY stingy especially given that you can’t do both normal and master in one week for drops. It just feels so out of touch with the rest of the reward structure in destiny pve right now.
Seeing elitist Datto back is so refreshing, I miss him explaining that some things aren’t for everyone and stuff like that.
Watching Datto manually reload Eriana's gives me great pain and displeasure
MAN all the callouts at people who cheese raid mechanics instead of actually doing them the right way was just *chefs kiss*. I LOVE it. The community asks for shit they don't actually want ALL THE EFFING TIME and I'm so happy someone checks them on this shit.
It's sort of a double edged sword though. Players take the path of least resistance, even if it's less fun. I love to two ball taniks, its so much more fun and dynamic, makes use of all the roles, but no one does it because its just objectively worse. The responsibility is on Bungie to tweak difficulty and patch to adjust for player behavior, not us to self-moderate.
@Sauceinmyface No I don't think that's true. Because players will also complain any time a mechanic, whether it's objectively fun or not, takes too long to complete. And the mark of a good raid mechanic these days is how challenging it is on day one to execute.
On top of that, whether a mechanic is fun or not is always subjective.
@@AtlasNYC_ Potentially, but players will always hate when there's resistance between them and desirable loot. This is just inherent. Solo players bemoan that they are underrepresented and unfairly kept away from weapons. Some players hate nightfalls and raids for not having in game matchmaking for players to carry them. Remember when good PVE guns were locked behind PVP and everyone complained? DSC is beloved by many because they didn't wipe on it a dozen times in order to clear it after contest. The fact of the matter is that the game is a looter shooter, and many people are addicted to the loot. They also hate confronting the idea that they can't have everything if they aren't willing to meet the game halfway in terms of difficulty or finding others to play with.
And in order to address that, it falls on Bungie to make a stance. If loot continues to be more easily accessible due to cheese, then the solution is to adjust it to be harder, no? I do the path of least resistance on my reclears because they are what they are. If the raid was changed, I wouldn't mind. I loved the master VOG experience. I was disappointed by how stingy the loot was, but I loved the challenge on day one. I hope to see master on all raids, especially DSC and LW, to have those raids make people show some respect.
I’m never not going to be salty about the “1 reward run per week” thing they did
They shoulda kept it like it was during moments of triumph.
@@erdwespe3573 I’m talking about how normal and master mode share rewards, so if you do normal, you wont get rewards from master later in the week
A lot of valid points, but the worst thing about about the artifact grind is that it is not a one time thing - next season we will likely have to do it all over again over the course of many weaks, just to get to reasonable difficulty for master VoG again. Contest mode would solve this problem.
Honestly, after a year of artifact power grind, it gets stale, and I don't see myself grinding boring filler content for multiple weeks just to be able to play VoG reasonably.
Afk farm
They need to let some artifact levels carry over for the players who have hit level 20 on the past couple seasons (or something like this). I mean it freaking hurts seeing that drop back to 0 every season and having to do the same boring shit over and over. There needs to be some kinda incentive.
@@jamesfinley7362 there is an incentive. It’s called the battle pass/ being able to do gm’s
dawg it isnt hard to sit in thrallway all night or do moon repeatables. i was +16 3 days before master vog and i was +20 going into it, and i maybe spent 4 hours actually playing the game.
@@dandy1892 I mean sure if you got all the boosters from the season pass which vog being free content means not everyone who can play has it. ( I didn't cause seasonal content hasn't been enjoyable and is just have a good gun if even that, looking at you season of the hunt, this one didn't even have an exotic) so it just ends up being ridiculous. If your 100 on the battle pass your still not able to do gms. So you gotta grind a bit more for that +15. But at that point how much content is left in the game? Do challenges that are just glorified bounties? Do bounties which are braindead and unfun? It isn't that the work is hard, it's that it's unenjoyable and stale. Tell me do you attentively play destiny 2 when doing thrallway or are you listening or watching something on the side? Cause shooting enemies running at you in a straight line isn't fun. For what? To get a number higher so you can do an activity. I rather they have all content function like contest and remove light levels. And to lock content from less capable players have activity requirements. Want to do gms? Do 5 masters or a master without dying, want to do masters? Gotta do 5 legends and so on and so forth.
Idc that the power level of the raid is as high at is, but if you’re gonna make the grind that harsh at least make it fun, so many skilled players won’t attempt this because they don’t want to do the extremely boring and repetitive power grind and that’s a fair way of thinking. To me bungie either needs to lower the levels on the raid or make obtaining those higher levels more engaging and not mind numbingly boring
I cant even disagree. In fact, I agree completely and wish it was way more fun
I agree, i also think they should gove master mode something more on each clear than just some prisms and shards potentially. When you are at that level where you do master vog you could just instead do normal vog and some master/gm runs for better loot. Loot from each encounter should be doubled imo
It just needs to have contest mode on. This creates static difficulty without forcing you to grind to +15 minimum. It's incredibly frustrating that the only true "high level" PvE endgame is locked behind such a boring grind.
Agreed. Also hate that the "difficulty" of these activities is artificial rather than mechanics based or game knowledge based.
Easy fix. Do raid? Get big xp. Do Nightfall? Get big xp. Go flawless in trials? Get big xp. Like in every other MMO, where you get more xp for doing hard content. I don't get why Bungie has decided that easy, tedious, repetitive tasks should be the ultimate way to power level. It's so dumb and makes no sense that high level activities don't give xp in any meaningful volume.
bit disappointed there isn't an emblem for it.
It is a shame. But The ship does look pretty good tho.
There’s so incredibly many emblems nowadays that, imo, nobody sees an emblem anymore and goes ‘ah yes, you’ve done this thing to deserve that emblem! Very good’. I used to see rare emblems back in D1 and almost get starstruck, and now I don’t know where anything is from and don’t really pay attention to what emblem people are using unless it’s like a trials one, cause those are so incredibly obvious.
@@cmdrmeldoc59 about once a week I have somone mention my solo flawless prophecy emblem. People who know notice even if they don't mention it. I notice emblems and it makes my mind come to ease on their skill
I used to think that the difficulty was inflated and didn’t see the value in it, but now I absolutely love it. I very much enjoy just completing the master nightfalls or tougher raid encounters, and I think that this is what separates Destiny from other looters that just don’t have super high end content.
1:47 THANK YOU, I don’t run all of the highest difficulty content in D2 and I absolutely agree on this.
There's already a posts on the reddit from casuals bitching that they cant do it gotta love how entitled people are nowadays.
@@corvvyy6073 but would you say the same thing about trials tho?
@@adamsmith5119 Honestly don't really have an opinion on that I've never done trials in D2.
@@adamsmith5119 no, because VoG is completely the same for everyone that goes into it and will be every time. You can improve, you can learn, you can master it. Trials is completely dependent on the enemy team being a bunch of shitters or not, multiple times in a row.
To the "more enemies not tougher enemies" folk, go to the thrall room with wrath of Rasputin and rage of the warmind and put on sunshot. the room will clear itself after 1 kill perpetually and that's how most encounters will go with that mindset.
Same with necrotic grips. Im pretty sure there was a straight up clip of a warlock emote sittihg, sipping coffee es the entire room kept perpetually dying from the continuous poison spread.
I know im late but the only reason that works is because those enemies are literally one shot even in gms
“You’re cheesing Riven! You’re one orbing Golgoroth! You hate Spire of Stars!”
This is now in my top Datto quotes of all time list. Riven legit is the best destiny experience hands down, and people are so willing to blow by it, due to either laziness or contempt to being challenged. It’s such a shame.
I missed Elitist Datto.
I didn't
@@reachcole514 I cannot describe the amount of disgust I have for you.
@@reachcole514 Swing and a miss. Maybe next time slugger.
@@DJNerfStudios cool
@@astronb6350 I don't like elitism, even when self acknowledged. It just my preference.
“enemy density” is absolutely my fave buzz-phrase
If the Age of Triumph armor dropped from it, then it would be worth doing
The loot is what makes this pointless in my opinion
None of the timelost weapons are of any interest to me unfortunately and I think bungie really fails to hit the mark on these types of drops from endgame content.
I have a God roll preydyths revenge; so what would the timelost offer besides an adept mod slot and a slight bump in stats?
I'll probably do it just to say I completed it but theres little to no value for me personally apart from the "I was there" aspect of it.
I am happy with the loot TBH, I got an Ultimate Godroll Rocket Laucher
Impulse Amplifier, Overflow, Vorpal and Cluster Bombs
I would have loved AOT Armor instead of "High Stat" Armor, The guns are fine imo
@Pure That could work if it wasn't going to power creep or infringe on the "balance" of pve, I'd appreciate that addition just cause of it potentially bringing more life to those weapons as you said.
@@izzy8609 raid weapons shouldn’t have random rolls, neither should armor
@@Lady_Amelia-Eloise Was gonna hard disagree with that, but after realising it’s a once per week drop, I’m gonna have to agree.
Elitist Datto speaking straight fucking fire and I love it
I don't even play this type of content and I COMPLETELY understand that sometimes, not every mode in a game should be made available for everyone. People just need to deal with it.
"you're cheesing past riven, you're one orbing Golgoroth (now theres a throwback and a half), and you hate spire of stars"... never have i agreed with a quote that calls me out more that this one does but DAMN if it aint true... still need to find a squad for riven legit tho... looks fun AF
Riven Legit is fun af
Me and my clanmates did it a few weeks ago and it's great
No it isnt lol. Its a time-consuming slugfest.
@@iligyf zzzzzzzzzzz
@@iligyf VoG is a snoozefest till gatekeeper
My clan wanted to try it, but from the 6 player 2 of us were used to gm difficulty, needless to say we couldnt even open the vault
But i like it tho
good attitude to have - a lot of regular mixed ability clan groups will be in the same boat - but that for me isn't necessarily a bad thing
I just did a run with randoms up to oracles and had to leave. Before that, my mates which I’ve played with for almost a year couldn’t keep their plates during opening encounter. It felt really good.
I raid a lot, but im on the other side of that equation. I dont car to GM and the mods systems ( charged with light, warm mind cells, etc.. ) never pulled me in and i just dont like what it takes away in my armor. I've messed around with it and rolled back immediately.
It would probably help if bungie put that stuff in its own slot that didnt take away movement and amo perks for people like me and the rest of your clan to use them.
I dont really care tho if we can finish it, yeah the loot is good but i prefer having fun
Since that's the purpose of playing
“Shards are considerably rarer” nah enhancement cores I have to actually do the dismantle the blue gear after upgrading it cuz I have Max enhancement prisms on like 2 of my characters postmasters
It's a tough pill to swallow, honestly, for people that just probably never will be good enough. That is almost certainly me. But I think Elitist Datto (and I know others) make a good argument here.
Before this season I never really dabbled in the really high level endgame PVE and bc of VoG returning I decided I might as well give it a shot. Fast forward a month and I’m farming GM nightfalls and master VoG best I can because I really did miss the challenge of higher difficulty stuff. Elitist Datto is right, and the superior datto. These things aren’t meant to be done by everyone in the game, they’re challenging and rewarding for a reason.
Hot Take-Not everyone deserves Adept Weapons
i mean true but xp farm is a no for me
Even hotter take, most of the community needs to learn that a lot of gear isn’t accessible to them. I’m not great at d2 pvp, so I know I won’t see most trials loot. And I’m fine with that as aspirational gear is needed
@@st1k3r63 The thing is that this is not just a Destiny thing. It’s not a gamer thing. It’s a societal thing (I hate to go into it but it’s true).
People think that everything should be easily accessible and basically given to them with little requirement or work.
As far as the video game thing goes… A lot of old time gamers know that back in the day there were just games that you simply did not beat and that was ok. Hell some games that you did beat took absolutely forever and there was no “saving your progress.” Those are straight up gamers that lived in that world and loved it.
@@ghst5980 XP farm does not bother me. I play actual MMO's as well and grinding millions of xp isn't a problem but that's me
@@ghst5980 while i entirely agree, the people who this content is designed for usually play enough to get +20 from the artifact in a season. Those seasonal challenges are op for exp
I would like to see the weekly timelost lockout removed, and all challenges being active during Master-mode (not required just active)
This way I can get multiple timelost weapons in a run
Also, maybe make it so that armor is guranteed to drop at master mode a part from the normal mode loot
I agree but that will never happen because then we can grind at our own pace for things we actually want.
If its not exp grinding, we won't be allowed to grind for it.
This is where they should've introduced unstoppable Wyverns
Hush
easier to stunlock, that would remove their difficulty factor, since they already have the aggressiveness of unstops
In a few weeks no one will be running this because most of the community does not use the charged with light and warmind cells stuff. If 10% of the 10% of the destiny community that raids slows down they won't add more difficulty like unstoppable wyverns. They will either prove to someone at headquarters this was a waste and never do it again or they will slowly nerf the hard mode.
This is the datto I love! Keep it up because we need someone to make some players realize get good Is the answer. Instead of ‘Bungie needs to fix this.’
Favorite buzz word: “dead game”
Like yeah, maybe for you, but that doesn’t mean no one plays it KYLE
My clan is super active on d2. So it just depends on who ur playing with. Of course it'll be a "dead game" to anyone who doesn't have people to play it with. There's a clan system in place, but people choose to stay glued to dead clans
It’s a dead game tbh either way. I constantly saw almost no people playing, then switching to another clan just to see a lot of people playing it, then people leaving the game and repeating the process. When you’re forced to switch places, then there’s something wrong that makes people not stay as long. Only clans that have very active players are the ones that kicks you out if you don’t play at least 6 hours a day of D2. I still play this game, but it became this sad reality.
@@Javier64691 check steam charts bro. Game is far from dead
@@Javier64691 Top 10 concurrent players on steam. Top 15 on playstation. Top 10 most played on xbox. "Dead game."
@@Javier64691 that's just ur experience. My clan is active.
This was a good wake up call. My team got frustrated last night cos it was so difficult, I'm looking to trying again and doing my best to "git gud" lellll
You CAN farm master vog for ascendant shards/prisms plus spoils. And the fact that you CAN purchase timelost weapons from the NORMAL VoG cache.
My favorite videos of all time are the ones where datto calls out how hypocritical and unbearable dtg is
I have never agreed more with a Datto video than this one right here.
Speaking right from my heart
My only complaint: a lot of master mode difficulty (and high end pve in general) comes in the form of simply making everything ohk you. I mean it gets the job done of making things harder, but it doesn't necessarily make things fun (at least for me imo).
Edit: after watching the video, I see datto addresses this point. Here's some of my counter points:
7:17 - See, that's the thing. I am not opposed to the idea of "playing differently"; it's the "differnet" playstyle that the game asks of you isn't fun for me
8:17 - I agree raid mechanics are more of a "placeholder" solution since people will eventually overcome those too. I think a good middle ground would be rotating modifiers (which they already do now), that way the rng of which combination you get changes how you play week-by-week. Imo there should be special modifiers that are unique to raids to maybe spice things up in difficulty
8:32 - Well tbf, the way guardians power is rn, the difference between 10 trash mobs and 50 are neglible when I can make them all disappear with my pocket nuke. So I wouldn't call "more adds" a challenge, which you seem to agree
9:28 - Well, maybe I ain't like those people. Ig it a bit hypocritical to say "Fuck people who hate more mechanics" as I hate the mechanic of "spongier ohk enemies", but whatever. I rather have fun in something that makes me think rather than hide in cover for 10 minutes pretending I'm in an irl gunfight.
11:18 - I guess I am in the camp of people who'd rather not be challenge rather than be challenged in a way that is unfun. Note that challenge and unfun are not the same word, and there's ways to do one without the other
10:11 - Looking forward to that other video
12:24 - I agree. Ig this mode isn't for me, but if it is for you (or anyone who enjoy this), more power to them
Banana?
This is pretty spot on, with destiny’s gameplay designed the way it is, I can imagine it’s pretty challenging to make harder endgame pve activities without handicapping players in various ways.
Uuuiu you
I don't know if you'll see this Datto but what a fantastic fucking video. You did a phenomenal job explaining why the raid should have been (and was) challenging while also considering its accessibility and the "type" of difficulty. You are getting better at analyzing/discussing the game, which is kind of crazy given that you were already among the best at it, and you've been doing it for 7+ years. Keep it up man, this was 22 minutes of straight fire.
Edit: Also I think that a long video about difficulty in Destiny would be super interesting and hopefully you'll consider making such a video.
At the risk of sounding like a conformist no original thoughts D2 player, Datto is right about the whole power level being ready point. I completed Master vog at 1336. I was at this point because I only cared about getting high enough for gm’s. Once I hit that point I don’t level any further. Now I’m faced with a dilema do I grind bounties for power so I don’t get fucked up by Atheon on my subsequent runs. I hate grinding bounties. I think it’s the most boring thing ever, but I have to do it if I want to make the raid easier. I don’t think it’s wrong to have Master vog be significantly higher light than other activities. It’s just that getting to that high point is such a tedious time consuming process. Sorry if this went to long and I seem like a bitch boy who wants all content to be a cake walk.
weekly challenges are good enough to get you to +20
I don't blame you, I think more people would do it if the artifact power grind was more interesting
@@flopre9213 They'll certainly get you there, engaging prospect? YMMV
@@flopre9213 you are right with that, but even then you would still be 10 under. I have constantly hit 20 artifact power every season by just playing it and doing all the quests and triumphs. It seems of you want to go beyond that point you have to grind for it.
I for one like the challenge that this presents. I wish there were more activities that had this level of difficulty to them
thank G O D the beginning of this video is exactly what I was telling people on Reddit and they all started whining and bitching at me that they didn’t want to have to level to go after Master mode. It was infuriating.
“Sometimes hardcore content is locked behind hardcore requirements to enter.” chaddo datto spitting pure FACTS BABY
The artificial difficulty comment is also funny as fuck. Thank Christ I can agree with someone.
“Not everything in the game SHOULD be comfortable.” Gospel to my ears. Thank fuck. I’m creaming. I needed this video after the hair pulling I almost indulged in last night.
I completely agree brother. So annoying that people are bitching when something is actually hard
People don't realize that high level content isn't the problem, it's the leveling itself.
I'd like to see someone post this vid on the reddit you'd get annihilated with downvotes.
@@aimbotarrow5981 leveling is the source of a lot of d2's current problems imo
I like things being difficult to complete, but I would be lying if I said that I was okay with the current artifact system. The fact that someone can go in the course of a single season from a dedicated player that can attempt the difficult content to someone that has to grind again to become worthy of attempting the challenge is somewhat frustrating. If I successfully completed the raid on contest or master that should prove that I have the weapons and skill to do a difficult activity. The problem I have with artifact-locking the master raid is that it doesn't lock out players from completing it through a skill requirement but an "amount of time I can spend leveling this particular season" requirement. Artifact level isn't equal to skill.
Great takes here. People can't expect to just run over content that is literally advertised as a difficult experience
I always laugh when people play master level content and are confused or upset when it's hard. Like that is literally the point.
My favorite classic D2 phrase is easily "Your 5th Better Devils". Oldie but a goodie.
I use VOG mods on all my armor - mostly to damage oracles with my auto rifle...
I would love an hour long video with elitist Datto
I ran it with my team, we’re still on gatekeeper after 8 hours of running it but I LIKE THAT, I’ve been running gms since arrivals and after the first time they’re just not that hard, having to really pay attention and being constantly stressed during encounters makes it feel absolutely worth the time
'No new mechanics' this factor is actually because the 'new mechanics' from previous hard mode raids were literally just the standard raid mechanics, and then they dumbed them down and removed some for the normal mode releases. Bungie not adding 'new mechanics' isn't them not wanting to make stuff harder, they just aren't making stuff easier as the default now.
For more difficult content I would argue that we need some of this “Artificial Difficulty” as you wouldn’t want to play a GM with all the red bars falling over from a small breeze like they do in easier content. But they do need to lean into the mechanic side a lot more than they do now. Atheon on Master could have you shoot oracles in multiple different orders instead of just 1,2,3. What if Templar had 2 Teleports to block and Oracles were made a little more hectic? What if Gatekeepers was more of a time crunch? Bungo should try these things out and work with the community on them instead of being fearful of trying new things. I admire the work they put in tho, no hate to the devs or anyone working there.
Then the community would complain and just do normal instead like spire of stars
Our team finally cleared Wait For It in Master VoG, got Rewind/Firefly my first drop. Worth the grind.
I only have a problem with overload champions, they half the time are literally ignoring my stun weapon entirely and rushing me, it’s inconsistent and I get punished for doing the right thing
Overload stuns in general are broken asf
0:50 oh pog im a part of the "very few" for once in my life :D
Muuuuuuum, Vex Mythoclast is hogging the TV again. You said it was my turn now!
I miss you.
@@justinworkman5482
Content shouldn’t be fed to everyone, some people just can’t do it, and that’s how it should be. Not everything has to be overly accessible, you need to work up to beating something, or you can’t get it. Agree 100%
"The best is yet to come!" Or "i'm so excited for the future!" You always hear this when the community starts complaining about xyz
Exactly. That and "renewed focus on pvp". Also "...because of power creep".
@@anonuser4806 this game doesnt and never had power creep, and we werent on the track to it, we just keep getting pure garbage weapons and when they are even alittle good and desirable their yanked away form us with bungie wagging their finger "No No. you dont get this"
@@TheFallinhalo I know that this game doesn't and never had power creep. I was simply referring to Bungo's reasoning for sunsetting which was purely bullshit, alongside their many other reasons/promises, such as "renewed focus on pvp" and "we didn't want trials (in reference to trials of osiris) to come back half baked" and so many more.
Could not say it any better. You explained everything on point. Good job Datto.
People don’t want difficult content to be challenged. People want to see others struggle while they pass it so they can brag and show off their difficult loot.
Loved this video. Loved the brutally honest comments. Not all content for everyone. Very true and people that aren't prepared for challenging content shouldn't be attempting. This is for people that are ready for the highest of difficulty.
Elitist datto is the true datto, and he must remain. He says the real shit.
We already have enough elitism in this community we don’t need anymore
@@Lady_Amelia-Eloise define elitism tho? The man said nothing wrong. Higher end content is made for players that aren't challenged by the basic grind. The people who aren't challenged by the basic grind are the ones who have done it so much & for so long they are easily bungie's main contributers & play the game near religiously. Why make the highest tiers of pve more casual friendly & loose that audience by not providing them with a sufficient challenge?
@@_holldacheesss so basically keep the rest player base down, and only keep in mind what the elitist have to say when the rest of the player base have better ideas than them because at times, they only play the game because it was revolves around them and pays them.whenever bungie does something they don't like they bitch and complain until it gets changed or they leave because they aren't getting what they want then bungie keeps it that way so they can keep them, heck the dam "community summit" it isn't a summit for the community when it's filled with just content creators and what they want and then say that the community wants that when that's not actually what the community wanted. A real community summit would be actually bring the community of destiny showing us what they are thinking and asking us what we think and asking for ideas and criticism from the community not inviting content creators to kisses there ass.
@@Archangel_349 not at all, dumbing down the highest tiers of pve to meet casual expectations no longer makes it the highest tier. If you can't expect people to play the game and grow their skill at the game for those highest tier activities then why make the activities at all?
@@_holldacheesss I don't agree with the first part about what Angelus said but he does bring up a point about the community summit. How many times has the playerbase brought an issue to the devs of Bungie for it to be solely ignored or years? How long did it take Bungie to nerf Luna and Not Forgotten when they became so dominant in the pvp landscape? Despite all the messages about how it was impossible to fight back against the hand cannons, it wasn't until some of the content creators were saying that it was too strong that they finally nerfed the guns.
We need more challenging activities in the game. VOG master is a step in the right direction, but it still needs a few improvements regarding loot. I hope we can see more of this when Witch Queen launches. I miss the challenge and the clutch moments Destiny used to give us before.
Finished master last night after 7 hours and that was the greatest sense of euphoria I've ever felt.
What power where you when you did it?
Not done master mode yet but I get what your saying as I have completed dark souls 1 and 3 at sl1
@@Crayon_Eater556 most people were 1336-39 one guy was 1343
this is what i was thinking raids would be way back in 2013 haha i love it
I hope they raise it each season tbh.
I have no comments on Master VoG, but the difficulty portion of the video made me realize I want "DattoDoesDarkSouls".
As someone who did contest mode on day one, which mode would you say is harder?
i'd actually say they were pretty even tbh, very close.
Master is definitely harder. We steamrolled the first encounter on day 1 and now we couldn't even open the vault.
Imo they were pretty even, though a few encounters on master were slightly easier feeling
The funnest thing I have ever done in Destiny that was very challenging was -
Being able to duo most of the deep stone crypt raid due to harmless exploits and game design bugs.
"like trinity ghoul and huckleberry" *sad witherhoard noises*
Finally someone acknowledges the fact that more enemies does not make it more difficult. In fact it usually makes it easier because most of the damage perks and ability spam builds rely on shredding enough enemies quickly enough. It’s just gives you more super energy when they turn up the ad spawns without making them more dangerous, have more health or both.
I just want to have fun in PvP again.
Bungie should introduce a new mechanic to Last Wish if they bring it back: anyone who tries to cheese Riven is immediately booted back to orbit
I love elitist Datto, bring this guy in the studio more often
Datto says lets talk ab our friend artificial difficulty, instantly after saying that i get an ad of bugs bunny saying whats up doc, the timing was phenomenal
The real Gatekeeper challenge is actually arguing with Elitist Datto about endgame content.
Git gud
@@josephc3549 git dik
I think it's a really good piece. I can see how elitist Datto opinion may not end up being the most popular with the general D2 playerbase (or general gamer audience even) but a lot of those people would throw a hissy fit over less. Very well made points and honestly nothing really to add. Good one, Datto.
You should've named this video, 'Datto triggers r/Destinythegame'
Totally agree with everything btw.
Some content isn't supposed to be for everyone.
I tried master vog this afternoon before work(1332) and even tho I didnt make it past templar when I normally faceroll the entire raid, I liked it.. I'll get more power and try again tomorrow. Good video
I completely agree with these statements. Even as a player that can't do GMs and has only ever done one in my life. I like that there is challenging content that is hopefully going to gatekeep the best items in the game. GIVE ME REASONS TO RAID.
Candid Datto is my favorite Datto. If you want the best look, try and try again until you succeed. I tried GM's for the first time last summer and never completed one. Spent a couple months watching videos, theory crafting and playing and now I can clear them with some patience and effort. Good to know that loot isn't super plentiful for master mode, so I won't waste my time trying to endlessly farm stuff.
I just wished that bungie would stop shoving ,, buy the deluxe edition" in my face when i just bought legendary
I can't like this enough
Bungie needs that bread bruh
I just watched up to about the 14 minute mark as I make this comment, but I gotta say, I agree with the sentiment of "The game should be a challenge to the player when it's presented that way" that I'm getting so far. It was hell to try and go through yesterday with a LFG group, but after a few hours we made it past Templar and that was so satisfying. I know that fight so well from playing since D1, but having to focus on so many things going on around me as the Relic holder was *exciting* again. It made the fight feel tense, it gave me a kind of challenge I hadn't been used to in a while. I didn't know what I was getting into from the start because I've never even done a Grandmaster before (never got high enough light level to feel safe trying), but after going through the roughly 6 hours of it that I have, it was fun all in all. If people aren't up for it? Well, not everybody can beat all the content the game puts out, and that's okay, having challenges not all players can beat because of the challenge it presents to you is probably a good thing for the health of a game's balance. It took time for me to adapt to the extra Champions coming out because the Minotaurs woke up on the wrong side of life and Guardians are to blame, but after adapting to when and where they spawned, it added a level of "I need to pay attention again" because hey, things can actually just swat me away in a second if I'm lazy or overconfident.
All in all, extra optional challenging mode for the raid is Good in my eyes
Wraith Of The Machine is the perfect raid to me, great balance of mechanics, visuals, enemies and loot
Im actually happy with this. I was afraid they were just gonna throw a shit ton of modifiers on top of a super high PL but im happy with how they did it a couple modifiers and champions
I honestly wish people could swallow the pill of "I'm just not able to do this" more often
It would be easier to swallow if they didn't lock so much delicious loot behind it. They need to make it less about the reward and more about the challenge.
@@shark471 Yeah, but if there wasn't any good loot behind it, why would you do it? Trust me, I love games that are all about the challenge (I've played Dark Souls and Bloodborne way to many times), but for a game like destiny you need some kind of extra reason to do it. Imagine if it took ya two days a fourteen hours to beat the master raid, and all you got was a triumph and maybe an emblem. One that's kind of just disheartening, and two, a triumph and an emblem is not a really good reason to do that kind of thing. Or, let me rephrase that, for someone who's a completionist, that's a good enough reason potentially, for anyone who's not, a triumph or emblem is almost meaningless. And while the argument is made that this content is for completionist like people, it's not too hard to get an artifact power of 15, 17, maybe even 20 by the end of the season, it's not exactly easy, but even if your playing on and off it's possible. So for those people who do just get to that power level by just playing the game you do need some kind of reason to do something like Master VoG. And I mean, just look at the game play, that looks really hard, you deserve at least the chance of something cool for doing it. And none of this is to even say that the loot you get from master VoG is worth it all, and according to Datto, it doesn't really seem like it is.
Anyway TL;DR, Master VoG looks hard, and you should be given cool stuff for doing hard things. And exclusivity on loot isn't always bad, there should be incentive to do the hardest things in the game (for a game like destiny at the very least), and I mean the kind of incentive you can shoot aliens with.
I disagree.
I paid for the content. I’m a decent player. I LOVE raiding. But im 1328 and there’s no way im grinding to 1335-1340 doing content that I’ve done enough of already over and over that I don’t enjoy.
@@tombombadil3589 That's true, but at the same time, there are plenty of people who will grind to 1335 - 1340, don't they deserve something not only for getting there, but also doing a very challenging activity. I understand that you paid for the content (actually though I'm not sure if VoG was part of a season or something given to everyone, but I believe it was given to everyone, if I'm wrong please tell me) but every game also requires some amount of time spent which is completely up to the players.
What I'm trying to say is that your right, there should be a floor or bare minimum that anyone can get to and be satisfied with, but there should also be a ceiling for player's who are willing or able to go the extra mile, and there should be at least some incentive to go for that ceiling, otherwise why put it in the game?
@@shark471 This is how you kill your game's hardcore community.
This season is probably the hardest I’ve ever hit the grind in this game. I specifically went for everything, grandmaster nightfalls, master empire hunts, everything in an attempt to prepare myself for master Vog. But nothing, NOTHING, prepared me for the gut wrenching realization that we couldn’t even make it past the door. I had to go back to my group of friends and tell them. “It ain’t happening gamers.” Mind you, this was a fireteam of 1335+ just utterly unable to even build the spire. We tried for hours. I WANTED master Vog to be hard. 1350 though... it’s just too steep. It was more than a slap to the face. It was a throat punch, spit in the eye, and a piss goodbye. I’m not giving up. I’m still trying to hit the grind to reach 1340 and I’ve encouraged my friends to do the same, but after such a demoralizing show at the spire, my team doesn’t want to feel humiliated. I’m not asking for a hand out, but to feel utterly outclassed in a raid that we’ve done every challenge for, it’s just a terrible feeling. 1340-1345 is all I’m asking.
Need to get the "gameplay mastery" of doing 500 bounties for artifact levels.
Difficulty should be actual difficulty not needing a to have a set number be big enough for something to be playable.
This shouldn't be a controversial statement
I'm sorry you need to minmax to do the hardest shit in the game Karen
My man said one orbing golgoroth that was a trip down memory lane
You know what. Everything Datto said here is straight facts. People who aren’t at the top tier (myself included) should not bitch and moan saying that the content that is MEANT for the top tier should be easy and accessible to all people. I am never going to do this master raid, and guess what. I don’t care, because playing to be the best and trying to overcome the greatest of challenges isn’t for me. People need to stop acting like they’re supposed to be able to do this kind of stuff and then complain when they can’t. If everybody was able to be the best, you wouldn’t be the best.
The main problem I have with these complainers is that they are the same people who complain about stuff like the Quria fight being too easy. They want all “impactful and important” content to be uber-difficult, but will then complain because it isn’t an easily accessible and easily accomplished activity. Guess what, if you want it to be difficult, it shouldn’t be. Guess what else, ARTIFICIAL DIFFICULTY IS THE ONLY WAY TO INCREASE DIFFICULTY. Like Datto said, mechanical difficulty is only difficult until you understand. Artificial difficulty requires the constant adaptation and mastery of the game that stuff like master and gm activities are supposed to require.
In my eyes, there are three tiers of difficulty.
The Basic Game (Legend Difficulty is the top of this tier)
Mechanically difficult activities (Raids and dungeons)
Artificially Difficult Activities (Master and GM activities)
Most of the game should be at basic difficulty, and it is. Quria is not a hard fight, because its a part of the story that Bungie wants players to be part of. Raids and dungeons are how bungie adds difficulty to the base tier of the game’s activities. Mechanics and teamwork are hard, but totally within the reach of most people. That being said, raids and dungeons take a lot of resources, and I’m sure if Bungie had them available, Quria would have been in a dungeon. Unfortunately, those resources are currently being used for Witch Queen, so we get Quria as a story mission. It is what it is. Notice that the highest tier of content is not related to the story. Bungie knows that most people won’t play it, so they don’t make it important to the world of the game. That’s the end of the story. Strive to be better, but be happy with the parts of the game you are able to play. This community is by and large quite ungrateful considering how much awesome content Bungie has given us, and people need to stop complaining about parts of the game that aren’t suited to their tastes.
This video contained a lot of things that needed to be said. Hat off to you, "elitist" Datto!
I'm only half way through this video and I haven't found a single point I disagree with.
Same xD
combat challenge increase and new mechanics are the perfect balance to making master mode much better. also master mode should've had Age of Triumph ornaments as loot
Elitist Datto
Sounds reasonable
A good strat for master oracles is having 2 omnioculus hunters constantly invissing the 2 groups of 3 on each side.
That's how me and my team got through it until we stalled at templar. :)