"My brother in Christ I lay prone before the gods on my back asking for absolution! I say please cast me a healing wave we’re dying out here alright, my units are low, my hero is dying, the last time you cast healing wave was in 1997! You’ve got full mana, all your friends are dying, you’re dying, but you're holding on to that healing wave like scrooge mc duck with his coins! He’s just not going to cast it!" - Grubby 2024
Tierlists are your best content man, thanks for the work! If I may suggest please do a tier list of all Hero abilities, they are not that many hehe. Cheers!
SC2 Direct Strike nerfed AoE spell stacking a ton (Irradiate for example has super reduced aoe damage to compensate for the fact that it stacks), so I agree. I don’t see why WC3 Direct Strike shouldn’t give summons a dispel resist when AoE is king in these types of games.
Disagree. You can often work around it early on - when summons are best - by applying buffs/debuffs to units that can be targeted by Purge/Dispel Magic, therefore saving your summons from being dispelled. They also absorb some cast time, especially from Dryads, which lowers their DPS. Furthermore, if you combine your summon with spending your gold on strong t1, they can overwhelm Shamans and Dryads which are weak if you can break through to them. If you buff summons you make them more snowbally. So much in this game has distinct strengths and weaknesses. If you buff a weakness and nerf a strength, you will just have a mediocre homogenised bland slugfest.
mmm maybe, maybe not. I have had games where without dispel that freaking nature loving horse man spam summons his trents and counters wave after wave of early units. its wild, and feels un-fair. then dispell does counter it and could it be nerfed? maybe but not too much because summons are OP without dispell frankly (early game atleast). I would almost propose they be nerfed on HP or life duration or summon time if they get a buff to being dispelled.
@@BenJaminLongTime I think best would just make the dispel resistance scale with the summon level. Maybe only 10-15% early, something low so they aren't too oppressive when they're good, then it can ramp up to 60 or even 70% so they are relevant and not useless late game. The exact percentages might need to be different but I think that's a good solution if it's possible to implement.
Great video! Played Direct Strike a lot in SC2, saw this pop up in my feed and now I'm excited to play it on WC3. Looking forward to the inevitable tier list Direct Strike units!
Yeees next do unit tier list please, And your perfect composition as if you chose every single unit 1 by 1. I asked about that video in one of your game plays too I know it is highly situational but what would be your best balanced units
Ooof, that list is definitely getting revised in the future. The biggest offender is probably putting Tinker on C, when it's an easy S tier. Pocket Factory gives so much pressure in the early game and Rockets scale exceptionally well. Putting 2 health gems and an orb on him makes him one of the best anti air tanks in the mid game. It can easily dominate games against almost any hero you placed above him. TC on C is also pretty off, it's an easy A hero. Tanky, useful with Shockwave in the early game and scales up to one of the best tanks in the game after level 6. Beastmaster is also a B tier hero instead of D. Getting Bear at the start of the game provides such a powerful tank that takes 3 dispels to kill. While your opponent is busy getting dispel units you can overwhelm them with normal units. He's also one of the best tanks in the game and Stampede is one of the most powerful abilities in the game if you toggle it properly. Put a spell block amulet on him and watch him wipe out an entire enemy wave. Many others are also off by one point as well. I think with more experience you're gonna change your mind on a lot of these heroes. Lich and FS being the best heroes is absolutely correct though.
For sure. Imo every melee hero should be C tier minimum just because they're the most reliable and durable tank units you can have. Plus, you can build your army around them, that doesn't really apply to the ranged heroes. He puts ranged heroes a bit too high, they're more aggressive pick overall, and usually make the opponents to change their army layout because of stronger spells but they tend to play worse when you have shitty rolls (unless the game ends early).
He could do a friggin meditation tierlist and I would watch it Actually ... that sounds so stupid and arbitrary that it actually sounds really good again, lol
I agree with the whole tier list except Paladin, he is not so impactful, yeah aura is fine, but 7 units is not so break-changing, and still, after divine he dies really fast. He is in the best B tier. He is definitely not better than Tyrande with Starfall.
agree for sure, i have never seen him as a threatening hero and I never pick him. I would take nearly anything over him, apart from like beast master or pit lord. and even pitlord would make me think first. also I think chieftain is under ranked, i find him good early game and very good late game. aura is good, stun is good, wave is good, rez is good, and without items he is tanky
i cant remember a game where i lost with fs first. firebolt is the most reliable way to stop enemy heroes in their tracks and chain lightinng is a solid pusher
I think you're underselling KotG Entangle a bit, as it doesn't only root an enemy in place, but also disarms them, disabling auto attacks. This makes it powerful not only against melee heroes, but also against ranged heroes with an attack buff like PotM and DR.
Demon Hunter can be really strong in certain scenarios but the problem is you have to spend a lot of money on items. I've gone DH as the only frontline with three health items and rings of protection and behind him full dps. Completely wrecked the opponent that didn't have much magic damage
This is the "problem" with a lot of melee heroes frankly. If you want them to stay alive and get XP you need to invest in items to keep them alive. Dreadlord/Crypt Lord/Panda scaling damage with strength, so they can better maintain tempo while also getting tankier by building belts, and having strong AoE burst damage/control with strong ults is basically why they're generally the top 3 non-Paladin/Warden melee heroes (Paladin doesn't need items at all to be relevant due to D-shield and resurrection all but guaranteeing a stack in the late game), and Warden is the best hero at stacking after blink 3 - though warden is arguably still worse than panda/dreadlord/crypt lord, especially dreadlord, as Infernal is preatty easily top 3 or 4 ults in the game, and vamp aura is extremely good). Of course, DH can be the tankiest hero in the game by stacking health + ring (s) due to 30% evasion, but if you do that, his damage suffers compared to the strength heroes.
@GrubbyTalks Direct Strike could improve greatly if they implemented some AI behaviour control that other autobattler maps like "Holy War" have. The more relevant of is the option to make individual units retreat when they get hit under a certain percentage of hp - analogous to what the warden does with blink but without teleporting. In Holy War you can do that on individual units and there are 3 or 4 options varying the % of hp, including 75, 50 and 25%. Imagine how this could help with how melee heroes behave. A more secondary feature in Holy Wars is the option to make a unit wait a ~dozen seconds at the base before they start marching forward. A player could use that to make his/her batriders advance only after a while, for instance.
Farseer in my experience is a *little bit* hit or miss, mostly depending on whether or not your team ends up being able to win off of early tempo/whether or not he's reaching the enemy fort in the later game to cast Earthquake. He's very good for tempo before ults come into play, and even after they do, he can be quite good, even with wolves into enemy dispel (it still drains their mana, which can give you an edge) and if your team doesn't lose tempo, he can secure the win with earthquakes dealing massive damage to the fort even when the enemy army is around, but not having an ult that affects the fights can result in it being very hard to come back if you ever lose tempo later into the game - compared to Starfall or infernal, for example, which can completely dominate a wave or two or deal so much damage to the second enemy you encounter that your ally in the next wave can clean up and push back all the way to the enemy fort consistently, Earthquake does literally nothing if you are reaching the fort on your waves, and sometimes even in wins, you will need to be the player that's forcing the reset on the enemy counter-stacking, rather than the one coming up to push the fort again, and he can't do that as well as a lot of other heroes at level 6+, and even earlier in the game, some heroes can actually be better at pushing waves (depending on compositions) because they have higher AoE damage. Keeper has a little bit of an issue where Entangle and treants are both countered by dispel, and thorns can also end up doing nothing - Eg: If you are against hunts + shaman/dryads early, or you are on hunts and the enemy is going mostly rifles + dispel, he can be one of the worst tempo heroes in the game, because his base stats are poor, his aura only affects enemy melee, and his other two abilities lose a ton of value against purge/abolish or any mass dispel in tier 2 (through forcing the enemy to tier 2 early if they can't handle his summons can be very advantageous). Of course, any time where the summons are good, he's very strong, but he's not the most reliable pick in the game, and aside from tranquility and thorns aura, his abilities scale extremely poorly into the later game when basically everyone will have dispel, though tranquility can easily compensate for that with how powerful the healing is if timed well.
nah tinkerer is actually overrated I find while playing. his summons are not like most heros summons, most heros summons are good, I dont find his a threat at all. his stun is superior yes but I will win the game before he even gets that stun to level 2 most the time because he is kinda weak. maybe if he dropped his factory at the half way point on the map when you are past the half way point yourself and they ran towards the enemy then I would feel he is not so junk.
Personally I'd bump up the AoE melee heroes - TC, MK and warden. Even dying early they put out a lot of damage in the early waves that make them worth it. They should die after the other frontliners with positioning. Most importantly, they limit the early game options the other player has to counter your unit composition - e.g. you can go heavy ranged units if they're caster heavy and they can't go too many tier 1 melee units in response, or you can go heavy melee units to counter their ranged and they can't keep their frontline alive efficiently. So you're forcing an early tech a lot of the times, which is too expensive to be optimal in the early rounds
Blade Master is at least a B hero, but I would put it in A cause he's the most fun. It takes a little bit to pop and mirrors help with that, but the ulti is strong and with some items just crushes.
Imagine farsight would scan enemy bases automaticly in random order on cd. That would actually be more usefull then many other abilities and give a different advantage. Also I think the tornado ult seems really lazy. They should give every hero a unique ability.
I think TC is better than C - but highly depending on the setup. It is not that good at start, but if you get in to level 6 it is a high power spike. Stomp has a small range, so shockwave first is quite good - but depends again on the enemy setup. Choosing him as first hero when you don´t know what enemy has on T1 is quite bad. But choosing a "late" hero (round 2-3), TC can be extremly good. Quite similar to MK in my opinion. Keeper is not S for me, as minions can be countered at start quite hard and he don´t have a good alternative as AM with Blizzard for example. Rest I agree.
"turns out we can control the weather" Yes From March 1967 to July 1972, Operation Popeye involved cloud seeding by the U.S. military in an attempt to extend the monsoon season over North Vietnam and Laos, specifically over the Ho Chi Minh Trail, which was used to funnel North Vietnamese soldiers and supplies to South Vietnam.
I think your argument for Firelord should be more critically applied to the KotG as well because, just like Firelord, if they roll Shaman or Dryad, you essentially become a glorified archer and a worse one than Firelord at that. Yes the unique aura is a bonus that Firelord does not have and it is pretty good early game when there are alot of Grunts, Footies, and Ghouls, but just like Incinerate, it is slow and does not have a tangible, immediate effect. I think KotG has a better ult but Firelord's is still really good. I'd say they are both A tier. I'd also argue that Blademaster can be considered a C tier hero because Mirror Image + Crit offer enough no item value to provide good tempo while he also can be invested in later with items to make him a threat. Also WW can be microed a bit to keep him alive better.
Dark Ranger sometimes has a bug that her first round with black arrow she won’t use it. Only last 1 round, but it make life leech a good opener because of that glitch.
32:41 Does Tranquility heal the Robo Goblin? I know it healed the Glaives in the campaign but never tried it in 1v1 so not sure if it works with other mechanical units. Edit: 50:18 Oh you mentioned it yourself although I still don't know if it heals Robot.
weird tierlist! as someone who played a lot of dstrike i disagree strongly with much of it. bmaster is S tier because it is very cheap tank. tinker is also very strong. beastmaster is actually fine too, you can think dispel counter him too hard but its a tempo hero and it takes multiple dispells to deal with his summons and you can get them out of range for it. alch is nice in very long games due to ulti value, naga sea bitch has very strong tempo potential by going mass int with mana shield, panda is easily S, id also make some swaps between A and B. sh is S tier because bbv can force wave stacking which often means a win, and it works even defensively, turning a completely lost game into a sudden 2-3 wave stack and win from being massively behind
i disagree with plenty of what he says as well. But you have to keep in mind that grubby is relatively unskilled at DS , so he's talking about what he found to be good. With more experience , he's going to realize that he's wrong again , just as he did with his first list.
yea this is based on knowledge he's acquired in less than a month. He'd need at least 2 extra months to determine a better sense of these heroes in an auto attacker setting
most melee heroes are significantly better as 2nd or 3rd. beastmaster is extremely dependent on lack of dispel/sb. ranged heroes with summons can get an orb of slow or corruption or darkness and afk even if their summons get purged, bm not so much
exactly what I tried to make a comment about aswell, I think the biggest misplay or misconcepion people have is thinking hes a DPS carry hero, infact he is one of the strongest early tanks cause of synergy the items have with his images
@@MethicalYT Blade's tanking with images is very unreliable overall and windwalk is also unreliable and not used well by ai. He is great as 2nd/3rd, not first.
i started chief tauren and i bought the aura item for regen and move speed and i was running toward my ally like crazy with the belt and reicarnate he carried super hard but maybe it was cause i m new and people have low mmr
Mustve nerfed Blademaster hard at some point since I last watched some peeps play Direct Strike, as loading him up with HP and leveling Mirror Image was flatly the best stall tactic in the game.
What makes archmage better than naga tho? Is it because of the aura he provides? Forked Lightning seems comparable to Blizzard. If Blizzard is cast too early, then units can just move away from underneath it, and archmage will keep channeling regardless, being useless in the fight. I wish they had given him and PotM some unique abilities instead of what they got... Crushing wave (like Carrion Swarm, but blue), with uncapped damage ceiling would've fit the Archmage rather well. Would go well with his "water magic" theme, and not having 2 channeled abilities would also greatly benefit him. Meanwhile I think that PotM could have the Priest's Dispel as an ability, scaling in its AoE, damage to summons and its cooldown (decreasing) as it's leveled. No hero has any sort of dispel atm, so it would be rather fitting. Alternative options would be: - Finger of Death (as Archmage ultimate) - Scroll of Protection's armor bonus, or Scroll or Healing's effect (for PotM, or combination of them as Archmage ult) - Meteorite (like Inferno, but without summoning an inferno. With lower cooldown, and maybe higher impact damage for Archmage ult) - Some custom aura for Archmage, affecting nearby enemies: armor reduction / damage reduction / speed reduction / dealing damage per second.
Disagree with you on demon hunter, he is a great tank in this mode. Give him hp, armor, regen rings, and a dispeller. With immolate and evasion he can solo tank for most of the game. While also destroying front lines with immo. Then you can spend more gold on riflemen or whatever!
Not sure DH belongs in C tier. Immolation scales like crazy (84 DPS whem MGs have 640 HP?). Meta crushes armies. Mana burn might turn off some key hero abilities early on. Also, stack up DH with boots of quelthalas and let meta rip entire armies apart. That said, he needs a fair bit of investment to get there, but when he does, hoo boy.
This list is too premature I think. Grub hasn't been properly utilize heroes to their strong points yet. Still enjoy the pov of the still-relatively-inexperienced Grub though.
I feel like Warden is B tier and my reasoning is sure she levels and can survive but a lot of the times she literally blinks out runs back up doesn't even cast FoK and blinks again and she basically is doing nothing except soaking exp at times she doesn't even attack before blinking again. It's like having a Sorc that can't attack but can only cast invis on herself then reappear to do it again. Now you see me now you don't. Anyway the value literally is auras and her early game can be decent but she still falls over early
just get her a robe of magi and boom, enough mana to spam fok for a while. also, the whole point is that she survives to stack and start spamming fok in the next enemy wave
Eh, she'll usually get enough fans off to be worth it. FoK does a very respectable amount of damage, and being able to stay alive so well means she's literally the best hero in the game at developing a stack after blink 3, and that has a lot of value in its own right.
Tinker doesnt even go to the frontline because he is busy deleting the backline with his rockets. Im sorry but i only have good experiences with him. Easily A or even S.
kotg is rly weak to tier 1 dispell i overall dont have rly good experience with him esp vs AM dryads... for me hes A, I actually think going AM first > kotg so id put AM tier S in this ocasion
Over the years I never actually bought W3. Because of Direct strike I am actually considering it. Hahaha Edit: Damn, I was hoping game costs like 10€ in 2024. Come on.. it's 20y old. I guess 30€ is not that bad. ... ehh.
Make a tierlist of your favourite tierlists youve made
Needs at least 30 tier list video first
prime April Fools video content
S tier comment
I really enjoyed the Definitive Edition of this tier list.
I am looking forward to the Direct Strike Hero Tier List HD Remake in a few weeks.
"My brother in Christ I lay prone before the gods on my back asking for absolution! I say please cast me a healing wave we’re dying out here alright, my units are low, my hero is dying, the last time you cast healing wave was in 1997! You’ve got full mana, all your friends are dying, you’re dying, but you're holding on to that healing wave like scrooge mc duck with his coins! He’s just not going to cast it!" - Grubby 2024
Shakespeare moment
Winston Churchill would dream to write a speech as beautifully perfect as this
Skill Issue.
Tierlists are your best content man, thanks for the work! If I may suggest please do a tier list of all Hero abilities, they are not that many hehe. Cheers!
Hero summons should have a massive disspell resistance.
SC2 Direct Strike nerfed AoE spell stacking a ton (Irradiate for example has super reduced aoe damage to compensate for the fact that it stacks), so I agree. I don’t see why WC3 Direct Strike shouldn’t give summons a dispel resist when AoE is king in these types of games.
Disagree. You can often work around it early on - when summons are best - by applying buffs/debuffs to units that can be targeted by Purge/Dispel Magic, therefore saving your summons from being dispelled. They also absorb some cast time, especially from Dryads, which lowers their DPS. Furthermore, if you combine your summon with spending your gold on strong t1, they can overwhelm Shamans and Dryads which are weak if you can break through to them.
If you buff summons you make them more snowbally. So much in this game has distinct strengths and weaknesses. If you buff a weakness and nerf a strength, you will just have a mediocre homogenised bland slugfest.
mmm maybe, maybe not. I have had games where without dispel that freaking nature loving horse man spam summons his trents and counters wave after wave of early units. its wild, and feels un-fair. then dispell does counter it and could it be nerfed? maybe but not too much because summons are OP without dispell frankly (early game atleast). I would almost propose they be nerfed on HP or life duration or summon time if they get a buff to being dispelled.
@@BenJaminLongTime I think best would just make the dispel resistance scale with the summon level. Maybe only 10-15% early, something low so they aren't too oppressive when they're good, then it can ramp up to 60 or even 70% so they are relevant and not useless late game. The exact percentages might need to be different but I think that's a good solution if it's possible to implement.
Great video! Played Direct Strike a lot in SC2, saw this pop up in my feed and now I'm excited to play it on WC3. Looking forward to the inevitable tier list Direct Strike units!
They should add Garithos unironically
They shouldn't add any custom stuff at all. There's plenty of auto battler with cool custom units but DS biggest strength is keeping things simple.
@@arivald6677 Add Archimonde and Make Him Immune To Magic 😂
@@arivald6677With Bash Passive, Chaos Attack and High attack Speed
@@arivald6677 +
Garithos is canon.
We Humans have to stick together
Love the tier list content. I listen to them while at work, gaming and sleeping too. Not overly edited and insightful since I'm 1k mmr in DS
Yeees next do unit tier list please,
And your perfect composition as if you chose every single unit 1 by 1.
I asked about that video in one of your game plays too
I know it is highly situational but what would be your best balanced units
In case someone missed it, just to reiterate, this is a tierlist for your FIRST picked hero in a game of DS, a good one too :)
The best about direct strike: it holds opportunities for a whole bunch of new tier lists 😂
Ooof, that list is definitely getting revised in the future.
The biggest offender is probably putting Tinker on C, when it's an easy S tier. Pocket Factory gives so much pressure in the early game and Rockets scale exceptionally well. Putting 2 health gems and an orb on him makes him one of the best anti air tanks in the mid game. It can easily dominate games against almost any hero you placed above him.
TC on C is also pretty off, it's an easy A hero. Tanky, useful with Shockwave in the early game and scales up to one of the best tanks in the game after level 6.
Beastmaster is also a B tier hero instead of D. Getting Bear at the start of the game provides such a powerful tank that takes 3 dispels to kill. While your opponent is busy getting dispel units you can overwhelm them with normal units. He's also one of the best tanks in the game and Stampede is one of the most powerful abilities in the game if you toggle it properly. Put a spell block amulet on him and watch him wipe out an entire enemy wave.
Many others are also off by one point as well. I think with more experience you're gonna change your mind on a lot of these heroes. Lich and FS being the best heroes is absolutely correct though.
For sure. Imo every melee hero should be C tier minimum just because they're the most reliable and durable tank units you can have. Plus, you can build your army around them, that doesn't really apply to the ranged heroes. He puts ranged heroes a bit too high, they're more aggressive pick overall, and usually make the opponents to change their army layout because of stronger spells but they tend to play worse when you have shitty rolls (unless the game ends early).
imo nerubian is the best tank in the game. He's carried so many games for me.
Grubby could make a tier list of home appliances and I'd be all in 👀🍿
He could do a friggin meditation tierlist and I would watch it
Actually ... that sounds so stupid and arbitrary that it actually sounds really good again, lol
I agree with the whole tier list except Paladin, he is not so impactful, yeah aura is fine, but 7 units is not so break-changing, and still, after divine he dies really fast. He is in the best B tier. He is definitely not better than Tyrande with Starfall.
agree for sure, i have never seen him as a threatening hero and I never pick him. I would take nearly anything over him, apart from like beast master or pit lord. and even pitlord would make me think first. also I think chieftain is under ranked, i find him good early game and very good late game. aura is good, stun is good, wave is good, rez is good, and without items he is tanky
I was under the impression that AoE spells don't have a damage cap in DS, like in many other custom maps.
potm is tier bae for sure my dude
Potm is life
been waiting for this one caught abit of it on stream.
i cant remember a game where i lost with fs first. firebolt is the most reliable way to stop enemy heroes in their tracks and chain lightinng is a solid pusher
>my brother in christ
*2 seconds later*
>gods
I'm afraid the pearly gates will remain closed for Grubtor.
I think you're underselling KotG Entangle a bit, as it doesn't only root an enemy in place, but also disarms them, disabling auto attacks. This makes it powerful not only against melee heroes, but also against ranged heroes with an attack buff like PotM and DR.
quite good list, i agree with most and it was still informative
Omgggg I’m not alone with the shadow healing shit. It’s sooo tilting especially when the opponent has an OP shadow that casts shit off cooldown
Demon Hunter can be really strong in certain scenarios but the problem is you have to spend a lot of money on items. I've gone DH as the only frontline with three health items and rings of protection and behind him full dps. Completely wrecked the opponent that didn't have much magic damage
This is the "problem" with a lot of melee heroes frankly. If you want them to stay alive and get XP you need to invest in items to keep them alive. Dreadlord/Crypt Lord/Panda scaling damage with strength, so they can better maintain tempo while also getting tankier by building belts, and having strong AoE burst damage/control with strong ults is basically why they're generally the top 3 non-Paladin/Warden melee heroes (Paladin doesn't need items at all to be relevant due to D-shield and resurrection all but guaranteeing a stack in the late game), and Warden is the best hero at stacking after blink 3 - though warden is arguably still worse than panda/dreadlord/crypt lord, especially dreadlord, as Infernal is preatty easily top 3 or 4 ults in the game, and vamp aura is extremely good).
Of course, DH can be the tankiest hero in the game by stacking health + ring (s) due to 30% evasion, but if you do that, his damage suffers compared to the strength heroes.
My most fun game was DH wih mass quel thalas. I had priest & statue on T2. He was a crazy Tank and dps machine
@GrubbyTalks Direct Strike could improve greatly if they implemented some AI behaviour control that other autobattler maps like "Holy War" have.
The more relevant of is the option to make individual units retreat when they get hit under a certain percentage of hp - analogous to what the warden does with blink but without teleporting. In Holy War you can do that on individual units and there are 3 or 4 options varying the % of hp, including 75, 50 and 25%. Imagine how this could help with how melee heroes behave.
A more secondary feature in Holy Wars is the option to make a unit wait a ~dozen seconds at the base before they start marching forward. A player could use that to make his/her batriders advance only after a while, for instance.
Need more direct strikes tier lists!
I love grubby's tier lists!
Another tier list! Yay!!!
Farseer in my experience is a *little bit* hit or miss, mostly depending on whether or not your team ends up being able to win off of early tempo/whether or not he's reaching the enemy fort in the later game to cast Earthquake. He's very good for tempo before ults come into play, and even after they do, he can be quite good, even with wolves into enemy dispel (it still drains their mana, which can give you an edge) and if your team doesn't lose tempo, he can secure the win with earthquakes dealing massive damage to the fort even when the enemy army is around, but not having an ult that affects the fights can result in it being very hard to come back if you ever lose tempo later into the game - compared to Starfall or infernal, for example, which can completely dominate a wave or two or deal so much damage to the second enemy you encounter that your ally in the next wave can clean up and push back all the way to the enemy fort consistently, Earthquake does literally nothing if you are reaching the fort on your waves, and sometimes even in wins, you will need to be the player that's forcing the reset on the enemy counter-stacking, rather than the one coming up to push the fort again, and he can't do that as well as a lot of other heroes at level 6+, and even earlier in the game, some heroes can actually be better at pushing waves (depending on compositions) because they have higher AoE damage.
Keeper has a little bit of an issue where Entangle and treants are both countered by dispel, and thorns can also end up doing nothing - Eg: If you are against hunts + shaman/dryads early, or you are on hunts and the enemy is going mostly rifles + dispel, he can be one of the worst tempo heroes in the game, because his base stats are poor, his aura only affects enemy melee, and his other two abilities lose a ton of value against purge/abolish or any mass dispel in tier 2 (through forcing the enemy to tier 2 early if they can't handle his summons can be very advantageous).
Of course, any time where the summons are good, he's very strong, but he's not the most reliable pick in the game, and aside from tranquility and thorns aura, his abilities scale extremely poorly into the later game when basically everyone will have dispel, though tranquility can easily compensate for that with how powerful the healing is if timed well.
I quit wc3 15 years ago, now I'm back at it again just to play DS and I'm already addicted to it. This mod is no joke :O
Haven't watched yet, but from what I've seen PotM with Starfall seems super strong.
CL, Panda, and DR also seem strong.
Another tierlist, yaaay!
I was forced to listen to this by torture.
Stop the cap!!!!
i was forced to like turtles
The SH rant was hilarious. The trauma is so real lol
Goblin Thinker is way better than you rated him. He can literally stun the entire backline with 1 skill, and half kills all of them too
nah tinkerer is actually overrated I find while playing. his summons are not like most heros summons, most heros summons are good, I dont find his a threat at all. his stun is superior yes but I will win the game before he even gets that stun to level 2 most the time because he is kinda weak. maybe if he dropped his factory at the half way point on the map when you are past the half way point yourself and they ran towards the enemy then I would feel he is not so junk.
Personally I'd bump up the AoE melee heroes - TC, MK and warden. Even dying early they put out a lot of damage in the early waves that make them worth it. They should die after the other frontliners with positioning. Most importantly, they limit the early game options the other player has to counter your unit composition - e.g. you can go heavy ranged units if they're caster heavy and they can't go too many tier 1 melee units in response, or you can go heavy melee units to counter their ranged and they can't keep their frontline alive efficiently. So you're forcing an early tech a lot of the times, which is too expensive to be optimal in the early rounds
Another tier list? Yay!
Blizzard could repackage Reforged as Direct Strike and sell a million more copies.
44:56 Friendly Neighborhood Pit Lord stamp
Information being guaranteed for at least 11 days is a pretty good deal
Ain't no list like a grubby list
36:42 Lore accurate mana addict.
Does it sound stupid if I want to buy reforged to play ds?
Blade Master is at least a B hero, but I would put it in A cause he's the most fun.
It takes a little bit to pop and mirrors help with that, but the ulti is strong and with some items just crushes.
Imagine farsight would scan enemy bases automaticly in random order on cd. That would actually be more usefull then many other abilities and give a different advantage. Also I think the tornado ult seems really lazy. They should give every hero a unique ability.
I think TC is better than C - but highly depending on the setup. It is not that good at start, but if you get in to level 6 it is a high power spike. Stomp has a small range, so shockwave first is quite good - but depends again on the enemy setup. Choosing him as first hero when you don´t know what enemy has on T1 is quite bad. But choosing a "late" hero (round 2-3), TC can be extremly good. Quite similar to MK in my opinion.
Keeper is not S for me, as minions can be countered at start quite hard and he don´t have a good alternative as AM with Blizzard for example.
Rest I agree.
"turns out we can control the weather"
Yes
From March 1967 to July 1972, Operation Popeye involved cloud seeding by the U.S. military in an attempt to extend the monsoon season over North Vietnam and Laos, specifically over the Ho Chi Minh Trail, which was used to funnel North Vietnamese soldiers and supplies to South Vietnam.
I think your argument for Firelord should be more critically applied to the KotG as well because, just like Firelord, if they roll Shaman or Dryad, you essentially become a glorified archer and a worse one than Firelord at that. Yes the unique aura is a bonus that Firelord does not have and it is pretty good early game when there are alot of Grunts, Footies, and Ghouls, but just like Incinerate, it is slow and does not have a tangible, immediate effect. I think KotG has a better ult but Firelord's is still really good. I'd say they are both A tier.
I'd also argue that Blademaster can be considered a C tier hero because Mirror Image + Crit offer enough no item value to provide good tempo while he also can be invested in later with items to make him a threat. Also WW can be microed a bit to keep him alive better.
Dark Ranger sometimes has a bug that her first round with black arrow she won’t use it. Only last 1 round, but it make life leech a good opener because of that glitch.
You can toggle it in ability AI and toggle the autocast to fix that
Finally a tierlist for the real Wc3.
32:41 Does Tranquility heal the Robo Goblin? I know it healed the Glaives in the campaign but never tried it in 1v1 so not sure if it works with other mechanical units. Edit: 50:18 Oh you mentioned it yourself although I still don't know if it heals Robot.
for me Tinker is at least A tier as the first hero, if manually controlled, i've got 100% winrate with him and a dope spider skin
Thanks grubs
weird tierlist! as someone who played a lot of dstrike i disagree strongly with much of it. bmaster is S tier because it is very cheap tank. tinker is also very strong. beastmaster is actually fine too, you can think dispel counter him too hard but its a tempo hero and it takes multiple dispells to deal with his summons and you can get them out of range for it. alch is nice in very long games due to ulti value, naga sea bitch has very strong tempo potential by going mass int with mana shield, panda is easily S, id also make some swaps between A and B. sh is S tier because bbv can force wave stacking which often means a win, and it works even defensively, turning a completely lost game into a sudden 2-3 wave stack and win from being massively behind
i disagree with plenty of what he says as well. But you have to keep in mind that grubby is relatively unskilled at DS , so he's talking about what he found to be good. With more experience , he's going to realize that he's wrong again , just as he did with his first list.
yea this is based on knowledge he's acquired in less than a month. He'd need at least 2 extra months to determine a better sense of these heroes in an auto attacker setting
most melee heroes are significantly better as 2nd or 3rd. beastmaster is extremely dependent on lack of dispel/sb. ranged heroes with summons can get an orb of slow or corruption or darkness and afk even if their summons get purged, bm not so much
exactly what I tried to make a comment about aswell, I think the biggest misplay or misconcepion people have is thinking hes a DPS carry hero, infact he is one of the strongest early tanks cause of synergy the items have with his images
@@MethicalYT Blade's tanking with images is very unreliable overall and windwalk is also unreliable and not used well by ai. He is great as 2nd/3rd, not first.
i started chief tauren and i bought the aura item for regen and move speed and i was running toward my ally like crazy with the belt and reicarnate he carried super hard but maybe it was cause i m new and people have low mmr
are those Orcs under Vrykul skin? neat !
just buy amulet vs dark ranger and she becomes bugged and useless
range is less important as 1st hero or no?
Please more hero spotlight! POTM! POTM!
Mountain King is defently A rang. With some Items and good spoitioning he is a beast. Kills the backline. I win all games with MK
DS is good practice for knowing what counters what
Pit lord, blade master and demon hunter are so broken once you start buying items for them
Weak to debuffs. If you buy items at the wrong time you will lose mid.
@@davidjones88 I usually do that at early game. At that point it's more efficient
I think Beastmaster's AI could be improved a bit, like using his summons the moment he spawns on the battlefield.
Mustve nerfed Blademaster hard at some point since I last watched some peeps play Direct Strike, as loading him up with HP and leveling Mirror Image was flatly the best stall tactic in the game.
Can you give or request gold to an ally ?
What makes archmage better than naga tho? Is it because of the aura he provides? Forked Lightning seems comparable to Blizzard. If Blizzard is cast too early, then units can just move away from underneath it, and archmage will keep channeling regardless, being useless in the fight.
I wish they had given him and PotM some unique abilities instead of what they got...
Crushing wave (like Carrion Swarm, but blue), with uncapped damage ceiling would've fit the Archmage rather well. Would go well with his "water magic" theme, and not having 2 channeled abilities would also greatly benefit him.
Meanwhile I think that PotM could have the Priest's Dispel as an ability, scaling in its AoE, damage to summons and its cooldown (decreasing) as it's leveled. No hero has any sort of dispel atm, so it would be rather fitting.
Alternative options would be:
- Finger of Death (as Archmage ultimate)
- Scroll of Protection's armor bonus, or Scroll or Healing's effect (for PotM, or combination of them as Archmage ult)
- Meteorite (like Inferno, but without summoning an inferno. With lower cooldown, and maybe higher impact damage for Archmage ult)
- Some custom aura for Archmage, affecting nearby enemies: armor reduction / damage reduction / speed reduction / dealing damage per second.
Disagree with you on demon hunter, he is a great tank in this mode. Give him hp, armor, regen rings, and a dispeller. With immolate and evasion he can solo tank for most of the game. While also destroying front lines with immo. Then you can spend more gold on riflemen or whatever!
Hey grubby while you're at it why don't you try the SC2 version of Direct strike?
Its way worse, why waste time?
Not sure DH belongs in C tier. Immolation scales like crazy (84 DPS whem MGs have 640 HP?). Meta crushes armies. Mana burn might turn off some key hero abilities early on. Also, stack up DH with boots of quelthalas and let meta rip entire armies apart. That said, he needs a fair bit of investment to get there, but when he does, hoo boy.
SH should have been S tier TBH. BBV is autowin
I think anubrak is Best in unded because of hes skill that gives you extra armour to LV 6 or 7
I had a witch doctor cast healing wave on himself after everything died.
DH with 3 hp stones is the most OP u should try it
I get forced to watch this video, I was even forced to press the like button.
I hope the developers patch the game after the tier list and buff beast master
This list is too premature I think. Grub hasn't been properly utilize heroes to their strong points yet. Still enjoy the pov of the still-relatively-inexperienced Grub though.
Make a tierlist of best and the worst hero voicelines
I think Bloodmage is 'S' Tier 100% flamestrike can DESTROY waves asap
i just love to pick Dryads and Spell breakers to make te aoe mages feel the pain when they have no worse nothing better to kill a lich with full mana
I wished Grubby played Lordaeron: The Aftermath, but that timeline is not what transpired. What about Cosmonarchy though?
- Adûnâi
ok devs, i need you guys to announce that theres are massive changes to heroes coming next week
Btw Grubby, many people I'm meeting in DS saying they playing it cuz they see you playing it and they like it. I'm one of those :(
I feel like Warden is B tier and my reasoning is sure she levels and can survive but a lot of the times she literally blinks out runs back up doesn't even cast FoK and blinks again and she basically is doing nothing except soaking exp at times she doesn't even attack before blinking again. It's like having a Sorc that can't attack but can only cast invis on herself then reappear to do it again. Now you see me now you don't. Anyway the value literally is auras and her early game can be decent but she still falls over early
just get her a robe of magi and boom, enough mana to spam fok for a while. also, the whole point is that she survives to stack and start spamming fok in the next enemy wave
Eh, she'll usually get enough fans off to be worth it. FoK does a very respectable amount of damage, and being able to stay alive so well means she's literally the best hero in the game at developing a stack after blink 3, and that has a lot of value in its own right.
"a new game mode"
*the main game mode
Want More Original W3 Grubby !❤
If firelord AI played volcano with attack speed buff items, he would be pretty strong but he stops using it. So ..
Maiev is clearly S because she has a cape and the pit lord also S because obviously.
Me pretending I havent seen this live:
🗿
why grubby didnt include dragons in that mercenary tierlist
Warden carries games, not putting her at S is madness.
Tinker doesnt even go to the frontline because he is busy deleting the backline with his rockets. Im sorry but i only have good experiences with him. Easily A or even S.
WE WANT GARITHOS!
GARITHOS FOR PRESIDENT!
ANOTHER TIERLIST YA-
kotg is rly weak to tier 1 dispell i overall dont have rly good experience with him esp vs AM dryads... for me hes A, I actually think going AM first > kotg so id put AM tier S in this ocasion
BM SO OP
It's impossible to win against TC and DK in late game. Their auras are so op, armies alwas stack so much with them
31:08 i'm fucking dead 💀
the main game mode
wc3 melee better
Over the years I never actually bought W3. Because of Direct strike I am actually considering it. Hahaha
Edit: Damn, I was hoping game costs like 10€ in 2024. Come on.. it's 20y old.
I guess 30€ is not that bad. ... ehh.
Yes