What Happens When You Try to Help a Narcissist Change?
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- Опубліковано 16 тра 2024
- Narcissistic people tend to have a huge sense of entitlement. They can be very disagreeable and highly resistant to criticism. They also have a lack of empathy for others. Many people who have struggled in narcissistic relationships have burnt themselves out trying to encourge and help them to change.
This video looks at what happens when they try and why narcissistic people can be so resistant to change their ways.
#narcissisticabuseawareness #narcissisticrelationship #mentalhealth
The pain of the person who loves a narcissist is unimaginable, the narcissist will just turn that love into a lash, and they will beat you with that lash everyday. It hurts me to think that anyone should suffer like this.
God revealed to me that I didn't love him, I was trauma bonded. That opened my eyes! Truly helped me to heal. Thank you Jesus🙏
@@ladyofthecreek279
I’m so glad you are ok, it helps to have faith.
@@fritsfelix8423
Learning all I could about narcissism was the key for me, it answered so many of the questions I had been asking myself throughout most of my life.
So sad and so true❤❤
100% exactly
I've never met one that will take responsibility, therefore they cannot change.
THEY WILL DESTROY YOU WITH OR WITHOUT YOUR KINDNESS.
The more you give them positive reinforcement, the more they resent you.
Or love 💕 All your love until they have burnt the whole house down... 🥲
Trying to help a narcissist is the definition of throwing pearls before swine.
And they even take advantage of that help.
Before I met my wife, I was in a long-term relationship with someone who was exactly what you describe. She was thoroughly miserable and malcontented, and would not lift a finger to do anything that would result in better outcomes for herself. I bent over backwards for almost 7 years trying to fix every possible barrier to her happiness, but there was always a reason that the solution to the thing couldn't work, and there was a new problem every single day. It just about ate me alive; I weighed 116lbs by the time she moved out and was an empty shell of a person. The lesson: you can't change or help someone like that, and if you try it'll suck the life out of you.
Very well stated! They NEVER change and are the BIGGEST VICTIMS ON EARTH at all times! It’s as if they allow tragedy on YOU so they can act as if THeY SUFFER SO about that YET they NEVER help you EVER! It’s living in PURE HELL!
You’ve described word for word exactly what it’s like. Peace and Blessings to you ❤
Yes, I lost 20 lb. in only 3 months. I thought I might be sick enough with some disease that I might die. I was right!-- I was being Afflicted with narcissism by my new husband. Thankfully, I got out after only 3 months
@@janettemartin4604yes, I was very sick and in the hospital twice, but he kept talking about how sick he was!!!
I have no interest in trying to get them to change. I find all of them revolting.
My shrink said "the definition of narcissism is NO CHANGE"
But they change others. The definition of narcissism is also a contradiction.
I tried to be there for my narcissistic older jealous sister after I retired. She only got worse. To the point, I finally went no contact just for my own sanity. Take care of yourself; there is no helping them! Blessings!
Stop trying to save someone that's drowning and pulling you under. Otherwise, you'll both be at the bottom. Let them sink. .
Yes, a lost cause, for you it's a loose loose situation even if you do try to love them. For them, your disposable, they don't care. Be grateful, if you can get away, live your best life. They will never change.
They will promise to change to tell you a lie then forget about it intentionally some are to problematic they come with lots of issues mental health ,addictions etc they consume your time energy to keep you focused on them they want your attention 24/7 thats why they create there chaotic life they are deffo dull people who are so boring they are storytellers liars you dont believe a thing they tell you got them well and truely sussed empty vessels who give nothing they waken you up and help to make you love yourself again ❤
Yes! To love myself again ❤
I have experience with a "best friend" for over twenty years. He never changed and I finally ghosted him. Still a parasite and loser. Finds women with money and moves in with them until they get tired of his whining.
My husband’s psychiatrist and his counselor both told him that he isn’t a narcissist. They checked the DSM 5 and proclaimed, “You don’t have any of the behaviors listed.”
He is a Dark Triad, with psychopathy, machiavellianism, and high narcissistic traits. He has virtually no conscience and life with him has been hell. I don’t think a Dark Triad can be helped. The local psychotherapists I’ve been to don’t think dark triad traits are real, they laughed it off and insulted me as an uneducated boob.
They're being the boobs in this case by allowing him to fool them. Stand by your experiences.
Read up on Sam Vaknin. He is a specialist and has been trying to get the diagnosis of narcissism changed. He knows the DSM5 is BS and has worked hard to make changes.
@@pjmrees I have watched Sam for years. If anyone knows narcissistic people, it’s Vaknin.
I am right there with you. My husband would fool me over and over again.. In the end, I could not ignore that he was not accidentally a hellion..
I am 61 yr old male. Married to a narc wife for 31 yrs (she divorced us last yr thank God) Here's my advice; Don't get hung up on a label or diagnosis. Don't rely on someone else to "judge" the situation for you to validate you. The important thing is the BEHAVIOR. If the behavior is toxic and hurtful then the label is worthless. A "label" is truly nothing more than a single word that provides a way to describe in one word an absolute crap-load of horrific and destructive behavior. Relying on someone else to call them out is a dependent risk and puts you in a very weak position. DON"T put up with ANY BS from ANYONE. Call them out on it immediately and firmly. If they don't change and you have to defer to threats or consequences to get them to change, then you've already got a horrible situation. GET OUT if you can, but if you have to stay, which sometimes we do, then get strong and firm, Make your life, your home, a no BS place. TAKE responsibility for yourself and your loved ones, and take charge. Good luck.
Youll be duped. Theyll play it like a fiddle for a little bit and then laugh in your face for your love and compassion. Theyll take what they learned about healing and use it on social media to make them appear to be spiritual or whatever they think is the best bait for their next victims.
The turtle: “WHY did you sting me? It makes no SENSE. Now YOU are going to die, TOO. …WHY?!?”
The scorpion: “It’s my nature.”
Between my personal experience in dealing with one and what I have learned about the condition, you will be unsuccessful in changing them.
In hindsight, all you will be doing, among other things, is giving them the attention that they live for.
Remember, in their minds, it's nothing wrong with them, so your efforts are because they are entitled to the attention.
Furthermore, if you persistent, they will get the impression that you are actually saying something is wrong with them, your usefulness will expire, and they will either end the relationship or revert to their treacherous ways in seeking out a new supply.
To save yourself a lot of pain, accept what is with them, and, if you choose to, find someone who you don't have to "change" for your relationship to be conducive and mutually fulfilling.
You can never ever change these empty vessels I don't think they can ever change deffo think they are souless npcs
They will weaponize your compassion and empathy and endlessly lie about seeking treatment. My ex narc went as far as to inquire about scheduling an appt just so she could show me the voicemail of them returning her phone call. Months later she was still saying things like "Im gonna get into therapy." Its like they lie so often they can't keep track of what they already lied to you about.
Yes, it's their default setting.
Actually, they just don't care what they already lied to you about
I was led on for years about getting counseling help together, wanted to believe in them and that promise so bad I let it go on way too long. When I confronted about all the lying and dodging, I'd get lashed out at. If I was hurt or defensive, or got angry at how I was being treated, then it all became about my reactions, and what I was reacting to was again ignored, dodged and dismissed. It's a futile hamster wheel of trying so hard to get progress or change, some growth, and going absolutely nowhere. Once I saw the futility, I made counseling together or no contact the rule, and after a tantrum of epic propotions and abuse from them, they abandoned me for good.
My ex used to say, "You have to accept me for what I am." My response to that, "It works both ways, that means you have to accept that I don't accept you." Made his head spin.
😂
Logic? Logic? Nooooooo! Not logic!
Oh yeah I know that phrase but I really like your answer!!!
I spent nearly 8 years being friendly to my narcissistic uncle. I thought for a long time that I could help him become a better person, everyone in the family except his own mother "and even she is finally on the cusp" has essentially abandoned him for what now seems like such obvious reasons to me. I eventually realized that he will never change because in order change you're required to admit that you're doing something wrong. He used to tell me things like, if everyone would just think like him and do things the way he does the world would be a better place, this is coming from a man who's leached hundreds of thousands of dollars of his mother over the course of decades who he regularly verbally abuses and has not had a steady job in over 20 years. The most I ever got him to admit was the he is kind of fucked up but he never takes responsibility for it, when he does bring himself to admit that it's only under the guise of being someone else's fault his this way usually his mother and followed by absolutely no effort to change. If anyone reads this, people like this are not worth trying to change, I don't care if it's an uncle, a parent a friend or a romantic partner, people like this WILL NOT change, this is who they are and this is who they will be until their dying day. They will emotionally abuse and manipulate you at every chance. Don't let people do this to you whoever you are, you deserve better and they do not deserve you.
Waste of time and energy
I wished that I had known this knowledge way back in my life.
It would have been so good wouldn't it!!!! Better late than never. At least we have it now and are armed with strategies for future encounters.
@@wendysimpson6395 -spot on, they will have what they deserve.
You go crazy, and they enjoy the ride while you last.
It's like trying to help a drowning victim while they're standing on your head.
I have done a lot of research on this subject and had a broad idea of what I am dealing with. The details in your videos, however, feel like you are talking to me specifically. Wow.
Can't agree more. This feels extremely validating. When they come with proposal on how to help them, run!
Good grief. A very good summary of the challenges the partner of a narcissistic person faces
Darrell,
You have hit every nail on the head. For any doubters, please listen to every word.
The best way to handle them is to insist on counseling together: show up, work and grow, make the effort to cooperate and collaborate together. They won't show up, they won't do the work. As soon as you make that the hard line, they won't have anything to do with you anymore. Growth, reflection and cooperation are their kryptonite. Stick to insisting on counseling for contact, through the epic rage they will hand you for not giving into them anymore, and they will finally give up and never speak to you again. Requiring change and healthy connection will stop the abuse, either they will actually step up and contribute, or they'll simply give up on using/abusing you anymore and reject you for good.
Really affirming video. It's so easy for me to get caught up in trying to help and communicate more honestly with the narcissist. I just keep hitting a blind spot in them, it's the point at which they could take responsibility for their actions but always have another way of seeing things that makes me wrong. Thank you for all that you highlighted in this video.
"Newton's First Law of Motion states that a body at rest will remain at rest unless an outside force acts on it, and a body in motion at a constant velocity will remain in motion in a straight line unless acted upon by an outside force". There was a point in time when I needed XXX, but now XXX is just an obstacle preventing change. Let change be the motion, and never stop changing. Change is good. Thanks Darren :)
But we do because we think we love them. Even when we know it's a Trauma Bond, we don't know how to break the abuse.
You’re so spot on with your description that my stomach has gone into a slow turn….
There could be total blindness and being Trapped! For 32 years! God is showing me Now! Thank You 🙏 Jesus! 😊❤
I totally didn't do this I always thought I was the lacking one. He seemed perfect
I’ve been in many different forms of an insecure relationship, that’s one way it happens… then there’re other insecure defensiveness behaviour’s that subconsciously prey upon those with the most empathy and compassion in order to exude false power over them (playing victimhood/DARVO) …
Just like the victims, almost no narcissist knows about the personality disorder. They know something isn’t “right” about them, but they quickly assume it’s someone else’s fault. But I can give an example of what happens when the narcissist knows about the disorder: my ex reappeared years after our relationship ended. She had diagnosed herself as having ADHD just from reading stuff on the internet and believed that her father, her ex-husband, myself and her current boyfriend were all narcissists. So her goal was to “prove” that I was a narcissist, and she kept pressing me to talk about childhood traumas. I calmly talked to her, all while she was aggressive to me, pointing out that I lacked the usual traits (I’m calm, never rude, I’m not domineering nor jealous etc). Then I carefully started to point out her aggressive behavior, her pattern of infidelities, her insane jealousy and domineering character, her tendency to triangulate, demean others and enforce silence treatment. Once she understood where I heading to (that is, to point out that she was the narcissist) she freaked out and blocked me. They can’t deal with the possibility that they are flawed. They just can’t.
I strongly believe that they exactly know what they are and doing. But they don’t like to be exposed. So coming back at you was just a resentment of that narc and ofc a try to manipulate you bc they don’t like to lose. And They don’t like the truth.
They optimize for change but are not affected by it.
“You did what I asked, but you weren’t thinking the right thought when you were doing it” - a literal example of what l iust dealt with with my ex. I was trying to get him to understand his reactions to me bringing up a recurring issue (more listening and not blaming and shaming and criticising, stonewalling etc.) - part of my thing was to not bring the issue up as much… which I did… even though he tried to intentionally provoke me to bring it up. I pointed it out to him when he was saying I haven’t changed, and I said I hadn’t brought the issue up in months - his response was “yea but you were still thinking about it so it doesn’t count” 🤯
I have seen narcissists change by Divine intervention. It is nothing external. It is an inside job with change of attitude and willingness to be accountable. I have seen this as a result of them being surrounded by loving, honest and accepting people.
Nothing is impossible to God, my feelings have changed somewhat towards her,but I never stopped loving her despite her crimes to humanity and myself. I see she struggles to receive "love" it's as Clair as daylight.
I have yet to encounter a Narcissist willing to be accountable, ever.
I refuse to accept verbal, emotional and financial abuse. It kills the love and acceptance you speak off.
I think you've hit the nail on the head as far as how a narc could possibly change. I believe divine intervention is definitely needed.
Very good Darren,you describe me and my narcissist partner perfectly,it's a very difficult road I travel on,but I'm encouraged by what you've shared,thank you it's calming to know,tomorrow is a new day.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. Expect the horse to … expect the unexpected on steroids.
I really think that, if I didn't help my ex husband when we met, perhaps he would have changed. because he was young, he was building the fondations of his personalty. if I just let him be what he chose to be, instead of "rescuing" him, he would have fell down, question his choices, and perhaps, he would have changed. doctor ramani said that narcissists can change if they are not too far in the spectrum, and if and only if, they lead their life to a dead end, lost everybody and turned everyone against them. if they have no other choice. so if you want a narcissist to change, abandon him/her. that's sadly the only way to make them question their choices.
This is so true. My dad was codependent. The only way he stopped enabling my narcissistic mother is he died. She is now 77. And she cannot change. :( So sad. But not my responsibility. She had 77 years to grow up. Everyone has to do it. I did. And now I'm helping my children grow up, so that they never have to be stuck the way my mother is -- alienating everyone who truly cares about her, leaving her surrounded by fellow narcissists. What a horrible way to go. Run from people like that. They will only drag you down with them.
Well, I'm here to tell you that that doesn't always work
My folks were both narcissists, who damaged us for decades. Including in our most fragile, vulnerable ages. We left as soon as we could. Wasband repeated the same patterns, everything Darren has said. The same thing for my brother. How could we know differently? Darren is completely right on. The damages have gone on, hurting even to now, at 74 years old. Awful people.
I'm very grateful to the therapist who brought me up short on this one. I kept trying to find ways to communicate that would help my mother understand me and not set her off. No matter what I tried, she got angry and tried to manipulate. He finally told me bluntly that I was trying to control someone else’s actions and I needed to start structuring interactions to protect myself, instead. Her immediate response was to accuse me of blaming all my problems on everybody else. I needed to admit that I was the one with a 0:00 problem and get some help. I needed to admit I'm manic. (I have bipolar disorder, steady on meds for years.) Check the mirror, lady.
Emotional Vampires - stay away
You nailed it!!! OMG, I'm surrounded by all of the things you've described, as I can now see. My family members seem to have these traits in varying degrees and they protect one another. 😝
As always, so well articulated and explained, thank you. Can I just ask, as the narcissist is always ready to move onto their next victim, how does narcissistic collapse ever happen, because they will always have a limitless supply in that regard?
I made a video previously on narcissistic collapse if you’d find that helpful ?
@@DarrenFMagee thank you, I’ll take a look.
We agreed to work together, but I was the one driving the train, I was finding the articles and directing the program....all with his approval. He slacked off, it was like I was responsible for his problem. I stopped, he won't go any further, he has no desire to do better. He's going to lose his family, we can't take it anymore.
11:30 thank you for this words it’s 100% true
LoL I gotta see this!!!
LoL 😂
Excellent 😮I live with one individual like this!!!
Thank you Darren. Your observations and advice are very helpful.
'You weren't thinking the right thoughts' is exactly it! My Narc usually required that my spoken words followed her script word for word. It's relentless. The latest one that I've encountered is simply determined to be miserable. It took me a while to realise that they weren't listening to a word.
This was a helpful video for me to organize my observations_ being raised by a grandy nark and a covert nark. _ my mom a grandy nark is like a mob boss and my patsy pop was the covert _ then when they turn on each other _ and explode in reactive abuse _ mom goes covert victim and dad goes grandy pandy _ seems like most people lost in this nightmare of grandy pandy covert passive 'Trumen Shows' _ its like we live the groundhog day over and over _ Al Capones worst day cycle.
Thank you!
Be warned in advance!!
This all makes so much sense. Thank you.
Thank you Darren F Magee
forget that scene!!!
Thank xou needed to hear this as i constantly try to find some ways to help the covert/grandiose narc that i have finallynleft after 27 years . What can i say old habits die hard . Still think if i do something for him we could have a functional relationship for the kids and just overall mature human connection. Was debating to help as a gesture of goodwill but i will probably reinforce the maladaptive beh rather than what im aiming for .thank you Darren
If you do this, the narc will turn it on you and punish you for ever suggesting that the narc is not perfect. 🎉
Maybe my (hopefully soon ex-) husband will look at the therapist/divorce mediator’s website as it has good info re: narcissism. But I doubt it….
His sick parents made him what he is, and I’m sorry for him as he won’t seek healing.
Yes!!!!
Van Morrison concert in Belfast May 26. HIGHLY recommend.
Thank you for both your kind generosity and recommendation 👍
Thank you Darren very helful your analysis. I have noticed on my husband that with grandiose and manipulation he is regit and disagreeable because he doesn't understand words and meanings of other people. Do you think he may have autistic disorder to comordit with narsisism?
3:06 don't forget the enabaling from the fllying monkeys around them. And how they put the partner under pressure and they believe that the partner is the one that is "asking to much" from the narsisistic person. and think he or she is the poor victim. While they are turning things around. Also many (so-called) professional care providers also fall for this. And then there are many who think that they can not be helped, not understanding that it is there own falls believes that is not helping these people. Because there is little insight into this type of problems there is always an abundance of enablers / flying monkeys. The people who want to help are met with a lot of flying monkeys and abuse and injustice. Turning things around is one thing but if these enablers / flying monkeys also think tjat they have the right to punisch the person who in their eyes is the wrongdoer, then that is not helpful ( for any of the people involved, by the way) nor is bullying or taking revenge on the narcissistic person, it wouldn't be helpful anyway. People should better adhere to general fair rules. Then narcissism would probably not be so widespread. These flying monkeys are most of the time not even aware of there own evil/narsistic behavior because they think they have the right to do so. It is never a problem of one narcissist, but it is a systemic problem in our society.
3:06 (supplement) when you want to help them by setting healthy bounderies and continuing to speak to them , then the enablers (sometimes including so called social workers or (fake / themselves are entangeld in wrong behavior / ideas and belief systems) child protection or police or church leaders , ect.) Come to punisch you for doing the right thing and they give you also the narcissistic treatment through them. They try to forse you to participate in the enabling. And to join and conform to the sick system ( compare to scapegoating ) again : it is a systemic problem and the collective group of flying monkeys is often even worse than the single narcissist you are trying to help. The person with narcissistic behavior often does not realize this because they are trapped in their own sick system and also there is little insight into this matter in society therefore it is difficult to get help. when you want to help a narcissist you will also have to deal with the enablers and flying monkeys around them. And there are many
3:24 it matters how you want to help them. Enabling is not really helping. It would be nice if also attention were paid to the other side. So those who want to help by not enabling. It is mainly care providers who do not understand this and do if you are a very bad person by not enabling the bad behavior. They are often a big part in the problem. Not every one who wants to help is an enabler or trauma bonded or codependent. Also this sort of ideas and assumptions and generalizations are a big part of the problem. It depends if what you do is realy helping or "helping" in a way that is enabling. It is also very important to look at the big picture : the system and the possibilities that someone has from their position within the system. Because narsissism is a system that functions through a group of people who are committed to this behavior. Including scapegoaters, flying monkeys and enablelers
They don't change. They see you as the problem who needs help. If you want them to take accountability and change their ways that is showing you that you want them to meet your standards of behaviour and be what they can not be. Thats why its a serious personality disorder. It is resistant to basic self regulation.
You get devoured.
A rare event to change tthese demonic people.😞😞
Have you had cases of narcissistic people acknowledging their own narcissism and expressing a desire to change? I mean a desire coming from within, not suggested by others?
Hahahahahahaha!
Absolutely nothing !!
a waste of your time....
Clearly it’s not relevant to you. 🫠
God is Reality
Get Real
Narcissists belong to a class of people who lack emotional empathy. There are people in this class who have high levels of cognitive empathy and therefore do not have the narcissistic disorder. I would advise anyone who desires to help a narcissist to study empathy - figure out the difference between emotional empathy and cognitive empathy. Try to convince the narcissist about the benefits of developing cognitive empathy. Since I have high cognitive empathy, I myself am not aware of resources that could help develop this skill.
Wow, you sure talk in circles
@@yvetteandjorgenlarsen9753 Are you saying that my logic is circular? That means I am trying to prove something by assuming that which I am trying to prove. Not sure how that works in relation to what I said.
Talking in circles can also refer to saying something that is illogical in other ways than the one I just described. If what I said sounds illogical and nonsensical to you, I offer you my (sincerest possible) apologies.
Lol yeah thats NOT going to happen
Such a great description, thank U! I have been suffering from my BDP & covert narcissist whom I gave all!❤️🩹