The EMPATHY PARADOX of narcissism
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- Опубліковано 8 січ 2024
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DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS VIDEO DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL.
THE VIDEO DOES NOT REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS VIDEO, ESPECIALLY TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION THAT THE MAKERS OF THIS VIDEO BELIEVE, OR SUPPORT A CLAIM, THAT A SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE VIDEO AND THE INFORMATION FEATURED IN IT.
They want you to care about them but they don't want to care about you.
That’s very succinct and true.
Well said.
Yes, well said.
kya narc love marriage karta@@yukio_saito
Leave them and never come back. That's the only thing to make it out of...
@@96BxelA thanks
“Being nice to you on a day that is a good for them is *NOT* empathy” 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
They are very good at being interested in all your past .. mostly the bad trauma times you have actually experienced, survived and become stronger throughout your life because of it all ..they will tell you only certain traumas mostly the way they have been treated.. lied to ,cheated on etc. even though they have been cheated on they will openly admit they did it back because it was done to them .. ME say I’ve never reduced myself to that betrayal because I have been on the receiving end of it and know the emotional mental effects it impacts on others.. also tell them people have always loved me for myself at the start and try and change and demoralising me once they start to unravel who they really are when I’m standing up to their bullying behaviour.. exactly the same morels apparently they also believe they have the same as your self ,, until you start to see patterns of behaviour,, knowing in your gut they are not being honest as some stories from the start ,, start to change or they are throwing accusations against you and insults towards you for no reason making you feel beneath them when they are speaking down to you in a different manner that you have had many times before.. the disturbing thing is with my experiences is usually after drinking and they switch instantly and they don’t even hear or see you no matter what emotionally state they have degraded you into feeling,, but you end it and booom they really do show you the real person you have spent all the time loving and caring about and being your complete honest self ,, even when you’re standing up to them as your normal self because you don’t stand for this behaviour,.. oh dear they are good at letting everyone you or they know that they have been subjected to your behaviour just because they decided to record your part when you finally loose your sh.. ,, to them and rightly so pity they don’t record their behaviour that antagonised you into loosing it and you have had just about enough for the last time.. luckily for me I had papers upon paper work of time dates and logged incidents which his behaviour occurred.. logging everything as well as vile harassment in messages.. one day karma will catch up with them ,, maybe not everyone but those who will never want to learn and reflect on ( know oneself) and take accountability for their behaviour and behaviour that’s impacted others,, I can honestly say this last one will never do that and would rather throw good honest people under the buss and make them to be the bad people rather than having the shame of getting help for themselves.. it’s a power to them that would be taken away from them and they live their lives for power only over people.. especially if everything they have done in life in the army,, jobs it’s always been about having the highest titles in their jobs so people have to look up to them .. my motto is never look down upon anyone who is falling because one day you may have to be looking up at them for help yourself ❤
The empathic paradox is what kept me believing that maybe I was the narc in my relationship. My ex would go on for literal hours about how I was so good at being an empathic person for everyone else except for him... and he was right. It wasn't until I read Lundy Bancroft's book, "Why Does He Do That?" that I learned that abuse can and will make you lose empathy for your abuser. That book was my gateway here. Much love and many prayers sent everyone's way 🙏 ❤️
Thanks for pointing this out and the book recommendation. I have recently discovered that part of my unhappiness is that I am behaving in ways that aren’t authentic to me around narcs, that make me feel like I am the jerk. That is one of my, I guess you’d call it, fundamental principles. I want to behave how I feel is right in any given situation regardless of external pressure or even minor risk to myself. I don’t want to be cynical but I find myself questioning motives whenever they are kind or thoughtful. Shouting is also not my norm. I taught high school and only raised my voice twice in 10 years, mostly because I saw it just didn’t work for me and my style, and I didn’t need it. Since I have returned to my defaults more and more, pressing my own boundaries forward and not giving in, treating the narc like I would a toddler who needs to learn, I have been happier and the narc is actually lashing out less because there is no rising to the bait and when I do, I pull back which means no supply there either. I am conditioning the narc like the puppet slave he is to his impulses and lack of self awareness, and he has no idea. It is so lovely.
"I was so good at being an empathic person for everyone else except for him" You probably were empathic towards him, he was just a bottomless pit. Having empathy doesn't mean you're instantly all-knowing about how all situations makes everyone else feels, that comes from experience and when you get zero empathy in return you'll burn out.
I experience that right now, being accused of being mean and uncaring and should apologize when I’m actually upholding boundaries that I put into place.
@@TheBaumcm is the narc your partner or spouse? If so, are you still with the narc?
That was the first book I read too. I was shocked at how this guy couldn't know what was going on in my private relationship. that was before I knew it was a pattern and there were lots of people just like my ex - narcissists.
“Being a great conversationalist - that’s not empathy, that’s charm.” Omg brilliant! So true.
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Narcissists are actually way more aware of others than aware of themselves. They pay attention to people's reactions and faces in order to figure out if their chameleon characteristics are working. But they themselves are not very self aware in a sense that they deny all their faults. It's not like they can't see who they are... They actively deny that they are manipulative, arrogant, entitled and etc... They deny to themselves that they are narcissists.
So true.
you said it all.
They'll complain about people who are doing the same thing they are doing while their doing it.
They're screening who will and won't let them get away with c**p.
Absolutely spot on and so helpful to know this. My narc mother has absolutely no idea what she actually likes or how she feels about a subject. They are not in touch with themselves at all. Their entire existence is manipulating others.
The performative empathy can really fool you. You start to think, "They're so nice to everyone else. What did I do to offend, upset or bore them?"
Thank you for mentioning loss of empathy for the narcissist as part of the fallout from narcissistic abuse. I thought I was turning into a horrible person because I just stopped caring, but it was just about the one person, not everyone.
I LOVE that you don't claim that narcissitic people don't have conditional empathy- because so many people out there are claiming they have none, and that is so confusing, because most of us were hoodwinked by them activating their "empathy switch". I don't know about other survivors of abuse, but when I hear that these people have zero empathy it makes me feel crazy, because I experienced it at times, and I felt it, and it was real. It didn't last long as it was performative, but I felt it.
Thank you, it makes it so confusing especially when they helped heal you. It does make you doubt your own feelings.
That's one reason it takes so long to start being better to ourselves. It takes time to see their true motivation and tactics of manipulation, even with education. They gaslight and future fake.
Most of them don't.
Yes it is confusing, and that's half the objective is to keep you wondering and questioning your own reality.
I say it is NOT empathy because if it can be turned off and turned on, then that means it is a mimicry, a manipulation, not real empathy.
It is performative empathy. It is not genuine. It is always to get something even being able to get empathy from others when they tell the story of how they helped/cared for someone.
If they're horrible all the time it's easy to get out but they'll be nice and normal for whatever reason at other times which is what's confusing and causing cognitive dissonance. We feel that maybe we can work it out which never works.
There were many red flags I overlooked; and didn't recognize then. But on hindsight, clearly was abusive behaviour. What made me leave with just the clothes on my back and the shoes on my feet was the physical abuse. Hit me once, maybe forgivable. Hit me for the second time? I snapped and left for good. The "good times", interspersed with the " lies"? It's just too hard to believe what is real anymore.
Yes I liked the way you said that. The niceness is like a venom that paralyzes us. While it's happening we don't know we are being tricked back into the fantasy relationship. There is never consistency.
That's how trauma bond is formed
@"Narcissistic people are socially perceptive" this is very true. It's also very true of their victims. Narcissists are perceptive from a predatory mindset, their victims are perceptive from a self-protection mindset.
Thank you for adding this. I find myself to be very intuitive but I worry I’m the narc even though logically I know that’s not true. Sometimes I get triggered by these videos bc of my history of being gaslit by others (as well as myself).
What I've noticed is that some people think that their lack of empathy is objectivity when it's just their feelings towards a certain issue projected onto the person who is trying to be understood, if that makes sense.
Makes complete sense! Very well put. I have experienced this many times.
@@rebeccachappell7622 Thank you and I'm sorry you've experienced that shitty behaviour.
Yes, like a used car salesman pitching his bull to a customer 👍
Yes, I had an expression for this with my ex: he tried to 'logic' me out of my feelings.
Absolutely correct
“Casing out the joint” - I’ve learned to notice this in individuals after being harmed by what comes next enough times. Excellent analogy!
"Casing the joint"..great analogy. You could do an entire series based on that premise.
Charming is not an adjective...it's a verb. You are being 'charmed' as a way to lower your defenses so that you can be taken advantage of. If you see someone using charm, take a giant step back, better yet, run. It could save your life. ie Ted Bundy and other psycopathic murderers were very 'Charming'.
I think the major difference is they don’t seem to *feel* their empathy. They recognize how others feel, but they either don’t feel it themselves or, if they do feel it, they resent them for it.
Could this be sympathy instead of empathy? I’ve received pity from the narc(allleged) that seems like they care. But they don’t want to go beneath the surface level. The convo ends with one sentence of sympathy and then they center themselves.
I've had 2 narcissistic customers try to bully me to get their way, and when I refused because I literally couldn't give them their way (one wanted to get into a fully booked Pilates class and the other wanted us to fix her broken nail while we had no free nail techs) they both complained to the owner that I lacked empathy but they just threw tantrums. I even got fired from one of those jobs when the rude customer wrote a bad Yelp review. Now when rude customers project onto me how I lack empathy, I know that I got under their skin and most likely did the right thing.
I find it interesting that those who commonly lack empathy LOVE to deflect by claiming it was the other person who lacks empathy. It’s a way to not take personal responsibility and claim victim hood.
You have totally described my husband whose profession requires a high level of empathy…. He has pulled it off with his clients
My ex is a therapist. Very reputable and holds himself in high regard, so, he knows everything about everyone and totally has to be the best person in the room. The most generous, the most entertaining, the most intelligent the most flexible. But that comes at a cost to me. If someone tries to out do him, he gets angry. He didn't allow me to be any of these things, because of his constant need for approval, admiration and appreciation, then despises me because I am not any of these things. When I told him that he's treating me poorly, his masters degree should make him aware he's wrong. (He threw that in my face all the time for no reason, well, I do have a master's degree...) Tried to justify his wronging me was an attempt to but hurt my feelings. Even though there was a conscience, on purpose action to hurt me. Then blames me for making him do it and before you know it I was asked to apologize to him. Anyone else? I feel crazy.
That brother who is a toxic money, swindler narcissist is socially skilled. No one he talked to could associate him as a loser. He would talk business & brag smoothly like offer a job which he didn't have. He doesn't care about our aging mother whom he asks money from. He asks her to get loans for him.
I started understanding the whole family because of Dr Ramani. I want to write her a letter of the case and of thanks.
when narcissists figure out you figured them out, they become Lady Stoneheart!
Dr Ramani is spot on! Narcissists are particularly adroit at 'reading' the room. But because the narcissist believes themselves to be Godlike, they forget that their greatest weakness is also on display: the arrogant belief that they have no weaknesses.
Familial narcissism was visible for many years before I knew what to call it. I likened the behavior of a niece to the proverbial beauty-pageant "Miss Congeniality" - nice as pie to everyone, except the one she sees as a threat, which when one-on-one, she's venomous. My wife and I saw it together, called it out, she cut us off, then played victim to the rest of the family when we honored her request to get out of her life. "Aunt and Uncle are ignoring me, BOO HOO!" which served to dispatch the designated flying monkeys. In hindsight, she's likely the most complete narcissist in the family, though several others have narcissistic inclinations. Together, the "bloods" in that family are a veritable narcissistic hydra. We packed it in and left them, when we told the matriarch what had transpired with the niece and the M-I-L said "I don't believe that about her". For effectively calling us liars, we knocked the dust from our feet and left.
Dr Ramani, I'm going through the first difficult break-up of my life, and that was with a narcissist, and you have NO IDEA HOW MUCH YOU'RE HELPING ME RIGHT NOW!!! Sometimes I go mad and all my emotions start to emerge from myself in a negative way, but then I watch your videos and I can think with my brain!!! Your channel is like a hospital and I'm at the ICU breathing on machines 😂😂😂😂 Thank you SO MUCH!!! If I really become a therapist, you'll totally be my inspiration!!! I want to help people just like you do! Thank you very much! ❤
I think Dr Ramani does have a good idea how much she's helping. Hope you can put all the misery and suffering behind you and that you in turn can help a great many souls get back on track with their lives. I have no doubt, though, that being a therapist is quite a hard job, so don't forget to keep an eye on yourself as well!
@@FrancisFjordCupola thank you very much! Indeed! Being a therapist is not an easy job. I'm kinda scared of it and I still have doubts about if this is really for me, but I'll make a way to find out! 😅 I'm scared of getting too attached to my client's feelings and not being able to separate my emotions from them, but anyways, I know they teach you a lot of things there and I'll find out 😅
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Narcissists also hate it when you can read them. It used to annoy my ex husband that I could tell when he was in a low mood and tried to pretend he was okay.
My narc exclaims “get out of my head!” It’s kind of easy once you realize the patterns.
Never thought narcissists were socially perceptive! I will have to give that some thought!
They are not aware of themself but they are experts about other people.
@@An-meiif they are not aware about themselves then how come they behave differently in public and in private.
@@Healthimprove Their view if self is distorted.
The odd thing is that it's usually easier to be helpful than manipulative. Good people don't usually need big favors that would put you out. It's usually something small. Narcs don't mind putting you out to cover their mistakes. They'll dine out daily, then tell you they need rent money for instance. They'll complain about a gift.
This is absolutely correct !!
Reminds me of that disgusting person I was married to and happily divorced.
He wanted to eat out every night. He never wanted to cook - despite me working full time too !
I don’t even think he really knew how to.
During the divorce and financial settlement he blamed me for spending all ‘his’ money, even though I had no access to his accounts or cards.
Total pig and utter psychopath. 🙄
@@NO-ib1ip I'm a believer in having a sit down meal at home. Restaurants are too expensive for every day. It becomes an addiction. You can't squander money, then complain about not having any for the things you need. Then it's always someone else's fault.
@@qua7771Yes.
It was an addiction for him. A way to avoid responsibility and making any kind of contribution to a real home environment or being an actual grown up.
@@NO-ib1ip Who paid the bills? That's something narc's like to ignore completely. They think it's normal to be months behind for things they use, and agreed to.
I understand what you're saying. Narcs are emotionally intelligent but not empathetic. The person who I knew was so clever in understanding people and their moods. He could see seven moves ahead. I was impressed by this and became totally dependent on him for people, cos I believed what he said. I thought he had my back. It came crashing down when I was discarded, and he told me everyone hates me, and thought badly of me, and they were only tolerating me, and that he can't have my back anymore. It was devastating. It's abt 4 years now and I still have problems dealing with people. I keep wondering what they're thinking, if they hate me.. am I hurting them, ruining their future, and I freeze and stop communicating with them. It's crazy I know. But I have trouble with people. Also, recently found out during therapy that my mum is also a narc. I have closed my company and only hire contract workers, keep conversations to minimum about work, and dont engage.
They often say "everyone" hates you, thinks your nuts," etc. It is one of their tools to isolate you and crush you. Do not believe it!
Noooo smart!!! 😏😏
All of the positive behaviors you thought were his were actually your positive behavior traits. All of the negative traits he was speaking he assigned to you are his behavior traits. He stole your truth and wears it as a cloth and he gave you his rags.
@@morpheusmirror2857 I understand what you are saying, but I still have doubts about myself. I struggle everyday. I think and rethink everything. I have read so much about Narcissism, that I don't even understand how someone can be so evil. Life has definitely changed and cannot go back to the naive, happy go lucky, always going the distance for people kind of life. After he left, I started to see things very differently. Realised my mother was also being horrible to me, I used to think it was out of love. I noticed how my friends mother's treated them differently and wondered why it isn't like this at home. Giving me leftovers to eat, when I told her, I am trying to loose weight, she would secretly add more oil etc in the food, etc.. suddenly behaving badly in front of people, speaking loudly, as if I did something to her and poeple would look differently at me. Once she told everyone I beat her. This was when she was throwing her tantrum when I was trying to explain to her not to do what she is doing, it hurts me, and she started shaking violently.. (I don't know why) so I screamed for her to stop. Now I lost all my wellwishers because they think i'm disrespectful and rude to her. My family (brothers and father) support her. They say its normal... that she is mum. Its very messy. I feel sick to my stomach. I can't move out cos all my finances are drained due to that narc bf. I don't know what else to say. I am working on myself thats all.
OMG .... I was told those very same things and I have been doing heavy therapy with 2 counselors for the mental trauma and confusion resulting from the relationship. I thought I healed from my almost 20 year marriage to a narcissistic individual and got into what I thought was a healthy relationship and just found a different type of narcissist. Highly intelligent and I thought high EQ. I got blamed for everything and told how horrible I was. My self-esteem totally tanked. I'm still confused by what I experienced. I have always been a people pleaser. These videos really help. ❤
❤ Love this video! My ex-"friend" Claimed she was an empath and I would beg to differ. It seems that she only had time for people when she was going through crisis. I realize looking back.
There was no reciprocity. I believe A true empathic person understands the empathy is an action word. Thank you for this very impactful video as always.
I noticed that lots of highly narcissitic people like to self label as an "empath", which is why that label is a red flag for me these days.
Totally agree~ I know one, and last year, she was formally diagnosed as Histrionic, which is "light narcissism". I almost spilled my drink when she recently claimed she's an Empath😅😂😅😂 Formally diagnosed with narcissism, yet claims the opposite...both can't coexist in one person😅😂😅Empaths can't be narcissists😂just goes to show how delusional they are.
I too have an ex friend who was exactly like this - living from crisis to crisis and completely suffocating during those times because everything was happening to her and no one else. But as soon as the storm passed she would suspend contact.
Total emotional vampire.
She promotes herself as the biggest empath on the planet but that’s just her path to supply.
Honestly, with her insatiable need for supply I’m surprised she has time at all for her paid job.
One of the things that my sisters and I figured out was that if we asked our mother how to handle a social situation, she was 180 degrees wrong. It didn't work. This was a person who could work a room really well and people would put her up there with the angel. Of the people outside of the family, she was well-loved. She did a lot of nice things for people. On the other hand, for her, the skills she had were toward mimicry. It wasn't something coming out of the core but things she probably found that worked and she kept in the act. Of course, she was different in that if she didn't have depression or self-hate bouts, even at home, she was a pleasant person. That was a confusing set of personalities to deal with when one was a toddler or teenager. Anyway, I hope this helps.
Wait, did she give you the wrong advice intentionally or accidentally?
Why do you think she could work a room so well but not give you solid advice on handling a social situation? As they say in TikTok comments.... "Story time!?!" 😁
@@lulabell79_31 The one thing that was odd for all of us when she died was how lives she touched in positive ways. She filled up a church and under-croft. One sister said, "Who was this woman?" From what we heard from her she didn't have a friend in the world. Her behavior in public was charming compared to her anger and rage to us and our father. That seems to be a symptom; they have emotional control in public but not with "loved ones". My guess is she had a skill set that worked for her but she didn't understand what was going on personally. It was a mask that worked. When she was family she could be dis-regulated. It's a paradox.
There is a difference in the quality of the interest a narcissist shows, in the way they ask questions and how they react to the answers that is hard to describe. On the other hand, if you’ve experienced it and are yourself empathic, it begins to niggle in your subconciousness sooner, rather than later. It doesn’t always protect you, unless you know about narcissists.
This right here! I knew something was wrong but I gaslighted myself into thinking that it is just my anxiety or paranoia because of my rose tinted glasses.
I remember their reaction feeling not really as warm as I expected, but as if they were standoffish inside, almost gloating... but it was very hard to put one's finger on. They had the "correct" expressions but something rang false.
Oh man. I am still trying to figure out if my ex was a narcissist (even if not full blown NPD). But this reminds me of something I thought often while we were together. He talked as though he “knew me”, but I always felt like he knew *about* me, and not that he actually ever *understood* me. (Or maybe, that he didn’t care enough to try to understand me.)
A narcissist will take the time to understand you. Whoever coined the phrase "they know me better than I know myself" was probably in a relationship with a narcissist. And they used this information that they gathered throughout the course of your relationship, all the secrets you told them and the observations they made, in the discard as a weapon against you to cause the ultimate pain and betrayal.
I think of the question like this. Does it really make a difference if he’s a narcissist or not. How does he treat you? How does he interact with others?
How do you feel when you’ve been with him for a while? How do you feel when he’s not around?
@@heidimartin5070I had to work this one out myself as well. We can get so fixated on the diagnosis that we forget the other half of the equation, treatment strategies. I had to realize that it didn’t matter what the diagnosis was. I had to decide if the pattern of behavior was one I couldn’t live with and being self aware, as well as aware of their patterns, made it easier to stay out of the line of fire and calm when in it, making me more authentic to myself and less susceptible. I know when we are trying to understand what happened we want to know play by play but sometimes it is healthier to see the patterns and recognize it in the future, and come up with strategies for those situations we can’t easily escape, like work or coparenting.
@@ThimbleFox350 Excellent point! I remember bragging delightedly to my friends in the early days of my relationship about how my new partner was so perceptive, and "knew me better than I knew myself"... literally those words. You can guess the rest
I saw thru the N-Ex after I moved in. Unfortunately, I was stuck on the other side of the country away from friends and support. The Narc's rages increased in intensity and flashbacks from the discard still leave me breathless a year later after escaping. Terrifying.
Whats crazy is that i can read a room and after about 15 minutes with someone i can pretty much know what they are about. And it sucks. Its from needing a keen eye from a lifetime of manipulative interactions. I appreciated it before but i am secure now and it really doesn't serve me anymore. Thanks narcissists
So Brilliant. Social Perceptiveness is NOT Empathy. And Vulnerable Narcs are not socially perceptive. You are SO good at this, Dr. Ramani. Thank you!
All narcs are socially perceptive, otherwise they wouldn’t know exactly which buttons to push to manipulate. Covert just use their victim status more than their positional status.
@@TheBaumcm Great clarification, thank you!
Getting a dab of empathy 😞from my Ex Narcissistic Husband was like squeezing a dried out empty toothpaste tube.I knew nothing was coming out! I did it anyway! 🤬
I've had some recent 'near misses' with two female narcissists (separate situations). Both were trauma aware, displayed performative empathy, knew about narcissism and one had been to therapy. So I thought, OK great safe people. Until I got to know them better, and well I was completely wrong. Seeing the familiar behaviour patterns unfold was shocking as it was so unexpected. Notably, both skillful at covert or psychological abuse. One of them is part of a group and her behaviour was affecting multiple people who showed me evidence. With these women, I wasn't initially sure and just felt like something was off. So, I decided to trust my nervous system telling me to get far away from them. I would love to think that there are safe spaces from narcissists but experience has taught me they're everywhere. Even watching these videos.
I ignored unexplainable anxiety around a friend.She had the reputation of a saint & a genius. Years later She knew I was onto her and kept my distance. When my partner had emergency open heart surgery. a kind gesture was followed up with a clever manipulation, but this time it was to create chaos in my marriage. We both saw it. We did not alert the others, we had ran to save our sanity and marriage. When you see it you can not unsee it
I’m literally fight with this right now after physical and mental abuse yelling at the kids I wanna take them and run but I feel so WEAK because i love this person I’d never want to hurt them or see them hurt they’ve had enough as a child. I’m just lost my world is completely upside down
Thank you for the space to just write let it out this idc if I’m understood or heard I know I’m fucked.
Your situation sucks and it is not unique, unfortunately. You wouldn’t be stuck if you didn’t love them and if you didn’t have empathy. They use it against you, your desire to connect and have comfort and give comfort. They weaken you so that you cannot discard them first (many have an intense fear of abandonment). Maybe consider a set of force ranked priorities, meaning no two priorities can have the same rank. Put your kids, any goals you have, and anything else into that list. What is number one? And don’t forget that you might have to hurt them to have your kids hurt less. What worked for me to strengthen me, was to remember those times I felt at peace in my decisions or interactions, to focus on my own internal sense of right and wrong, to reinforce that I don’t need the narc to influence or choose for me. What was I doing? How was I communicating? I figured out that I felt weak because I wasn’t authentic to myself any more. I was taking so long to make decisions because I was centering them around the narc, not my own internal system. Self centered every now and again isn’t selfish, it’s survival. I am choosing not to let them be the voice in my head.
I’ve always been of the belief, that “actions speak louder than words”… with coverts it’s always the opposite, their words are louder than their actions ..
Thank you for these videos about the subtle differences between the real thing and the pseudo, because discerning between the two is so important and had gotten ruined for some of us. Thanks for helping so many of us heal with these nuanced explanations, that are so often overlooked and can mean the difference between staying or returning or confining to get into these relationships, and getting out or not being easily swayed into them in the first place.
"Performative or transactional empathy" or cognitive empathy nails it.
"That's what this channel is for."
Thank you for educating us, teaching us how to protect ourselves from narcissists. I really appreciate you.❤
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Having suffered the consequences of being connected to too many empathy vampires in my life, I've learned how completely unhelpful it is too have it for others. Since I started using it just like narcs do, I have been emotionally at peace.
Dr. Ramani I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and expertise from your experience and dedicated research. I did become aware of my husband’s empathy when he chose to use it as a manipulation. He even called me a Narcissist. I was becoming confused. Though last night he tried to tell me what I said. I quickly restated what I actually said. Then he continued to gaslight me. I finally said I don’t have any control about your thoughts. You create your movie, and you are responsible for your feelings derived from that. I know the reality, and I certainly know how I feel. If you choose to be negative; then you created that story from your unidentified information.
Gee! Wow! I always said my husband could sell ice to Eskimos, so it's no wonder he was able to manipulate and control me for so, so long. He has a very IQ, and is adept at interrogating people to get the info HE needs in order to deal with them. I stood zero chance, bc he looked SO empathetic compared to my dad, who literally had zero empathy, and didn't care, as long as his position as pastor, gave him the validation he needed. My husband, is an excellent communal narc, who really doesn't like that I consider him a narc. He's been telling me for years how empathetic he is, and I never do anything right. He notices EVERYTHING, and if it's me, he's got to correct or criticize me and/or my decisions. I was so duped, but knowledge is power. Grey rocking works, and so does knowing my own mind, and not letting him set the narrative!!
Get out!
My father is also a pastor, and a neglectful narcissist. Mother is a covert narc.
Put 1,000 miles between whenever I travel back, it's more and more obvious each visit. Yuk!
Spot on DoctorRamani. He is highly perceptive and it's almost like he has a catalogue in his head about all the people in his life and what they like. He only uses this information to his advantage or to manipulate or to gain supply however.
A concerted search for the remote control button on me is my first tip-off that I should keep a polite distance from someone. I can enjoy them at a distance, while being aware of the flaws that make it impossible for them to really be a friend.
Like robbers casing a joint is such a great analogy. The one I deal with thinks she is a perception expert ( usually paranoid and wrong ). Then she realizes the “place/person she thought was an easy theft actually had video cameras everywhere and she’s been fooling no one and caught.
Then begins dealing with not only the double whammy of dealing with them doing wrong against you but now the cover up they launch against your character because their character is now in question.
Exhausting these people!
This explains why I walk into so many spaces and immediately people tense up 😅 it used to be I’d walk into a space and people were figuring out their best most calculated approach to get what they want out of me. Now people are intimidated and work fast to convince anyone who will listen that I don’t deserve a greeting, a welcoming, or basic human respect.
Oh, Dr. Ramani, this relates so much to my narcissistic brother. He loves to trash talk people, and who do you think he talks about? That's right, the people who are on to him.
And who does he gossip and trash talk to? That's right, the people who are NOT onto him.
He once tried trash talking to me about someone else, and I just told him I wasn't interested in hearing it. He called me an asshole and hung up the phone on me.
Now he doesn't talk to me much, but I'm sure he talks about me to other people. I also noticed, he has a lot of animosity toward me.
Side note: I've seen the more skilled narcissists suss out the "threat" and intentionally NOT avoid them, but interact with them in order to cast doubt or try to expose their character flaws to the primary supply they've identified or arrived with, often being charming until, or even before, the person gets a bit too suspicious, and they bait them into some sort of questionable comment or behavior, all Auth plenty of plausible denyabilty about their own behavior. It's so insidious.
Indeed, I think Dr Ramani's method of just shutting down towards them is the best way against the more skilled narc.
I'm no salesperson, but the more I learn about narcissism, I'm 60-80 percent sure (depending on the day) that I'm a covert narcissist. I'm trying to be aware of it and make changes
It's a spectrum from less to more.
If You can realize it, and have introspection, then you are not a full-blown NPD. Therefore You have hope and can change!
@@jj4791 Something that I've found helps is that, when I spot a toxic trait, I just straight up out myself. If I just tell people about it, well then I *have* to hold myself accountable because they know
Thank you so much doctor. I had someone in my life who did this and even managed to convince some people very close to me that she was good. They are so evil
Listen up people:
CEO, politicians, influencers!
Beware of the narcissist!⚠️
They’re everywhere!
This. This is exactly what confused me and made me feel/think I was dealing with a genuine person. Thank you for explaining this.
I'm a little off topic here but I'm beyond the point of thinking that I have to change because somebody else can't behave like a grown-up human being. Part of the problem is victims scrutinize themselves and are encouraged to do so, whilst those who can't and should, don't.
I always figure if someone is capable of genuinely asking the question, whether they might be the problem, not in the dramatic sense of martyrdom way that many narcs employ to get sympathy from others, but in the introspective, self aware way, then they are most likely not because everyone has flaws but it is assuming that you have none that causes the problems. Defensiveness, contempt, superiority, all stem from this. I always used to tell parents at school, if you are worried you are doing a good job, chances are you are just fine.
@@TheBaumcm It's alright asking yourself that question. But I've known some scrutinise themselves for years when it was never their fault. Healing comes when you can trust yourself again. You don't have to live your life in the same circle of questions. Once you trust yourself again you can move on to someone new.
Survivors don't have to live forever the context of perpetual self scrutiny to be good people. Self-awareness is always worthwhile. But that doesn't mean endless self scrutiny over aspects of someone else's behaviour.
it's the inconsistency... and not being present. that's the main thing i kept experiencing from that family-member who made me believe he's part of my little "tribe" against my other narcissistic family members...only for him to turn out JUST LIKE THEM. It's only been a month since I cut ties, but I never truly realized how much I've lost because of letting him keep up. That point (well there were a lot of times but there's the point of no return part)when I am the one who is in need, he's absent. After I've laid out everything for him and his future, I got dropped....now I am mostly afraid to start again but the peace it gave me after letting that person go is such a crucial recipe to my healing and following my goals. In a month, I've worked hard but I also got back some of what I deserve to have.
I have a narc in my life who is socially perceptive. Talks about everyone behind their back. So now I'm less open with the things I share with others in their company, because I know what I say will be used to slate me later. Everyone is either dumb, crazy or their suffering is self-inflicted, in their opinion. Now I'm less chatty, it makes ME seem closed/cagey. All part of the manipulation and the intention to isolate their partner, I suppose.
Please keep these coming Dr Ramani! I’m running to you everyday for courage and strength to continue with my decision to leave! 🙏🏽🙏🏽
So many times over the years I have said Please talk to me and not at me.
(Talking to me is a conversation but talking at me is a monologue.)
As you mentioned before, being in a narcissistic relationship is like being in a cult.
It made me feel sick when evil people act all sugar and spice and everything nice and everyone around them fell for it. When they acted that way and knew what I really saw, they'd cast me an evil smirk.
I also had narcissists who tried to isolate me from other people and other people from me.
Losing empathy and seeing the truth of my situation is what helped me to leave. 🍒
“social perceptiveness is not the same as empathy.” 9:06
Thank you for telling us all of these details. We learn here, and feel less alone. ❤
9:24 First time I have heard of emotional intelligence being used for bad instead of good. I don't remember this from Daniel Goleman's book. But then again, why not? If high IQ people can use their brains for crime instead of something that benefits society, why can't an emotionally intelligent person use their skills for harm as well?
The comforting voice of Dr Ramani,my second 'mother'.
Older sister Dr Ramani, thank you for all you do. Just watching these videos keeps me on track. I really appreciate all your hard work ❤️🇬🇧
That helps a great deal. Thank you Dr Ramani for making these so distinct and clear. 🙏🏽 You are a saviour. God bless!
My parent acted like he was helping me, inviting me to live with him when my finances and relationship went south. He needed a caregiver and the one he paid was about done with him. Now, I have a horrible spine and had compression fractures, surgeries and will need more surgery. I grit my teeth and clean bc I hate when things are out of place. When I refused to clean when he had an outburst and spilled food all over the kitchen floor, I stayed in my room. He called his aide and paid her extra to clean. He never gave me a dollar and I don’t want a damn thing from him. He exploited me and when he knew I knew, he panicked and he totally fkd me over with smear campaigns and I was done. I left him. Left my family who believes him. He knows how to play the empathy games. Yuk. Ugh. It grosses me out really. Now I know it’s always been an act.
This is bone-chilling. My father is truly a sociopath who has hood-winked and bilked highly educated, monied people my entire life. When I was suddenly and tragically widowed I was next on his list of unwed “spinsters”……I’m in my 60s now, and am only just dismantling a lifetime legacy of this…..Being devoted and trusting has repeatedly made me his primary victim. The shame I feel for being duty-bound and love-blind to my father enabled the victimizing-stealing and usurping etc. to extend to my daughter, who was actually more woke to his nature than I was. It’s terrible when a mother can’t protect her child because she has failed to protect herself. The rumination of having been so blindly hoodwinked by my extremely charming father is torturous process to explore and - pray-God- overcome.
Again, a thousand thank you’d to you for all the dismantling hope and healing you engender.
I found out so many juicy rumors about myself I was dying to meet this version of me.
Very interesting information in this video. Thank you for sharing!
Thank you so much for this vedio..I had a friend who appears to have traits of covert narcissism and I tried to rescue/save her for almost 3yrs and I didn't want to use the term covert narcissism as I felt she was "empathic" and she has just been going through never-ending tough times and situations...I gave up once I realized she is not putting any efforts to change/transform...she was only complaining, blaming and talking and pretending...I now realize she is emotionally intelligent to pick people to serve her emotional needs and get the narcissitic supply and it was not EMPATHY...
Can they be a therapist? It's been 13 years. I've picked up on so much. This is good. Thank you. It's so confusing. I've been told I'm very empathetic, yet the script gets flipped and I'm the one that's not empathetic. I'm the one that's not this, I'm the one that's not that. If only you'd do this, I could have said that, is now take the right time to bring that up? How ungracious and unclassy. My head spins. 😢
*Busts open the door*
Narc: "I'm finally here people! You can finally bow down.
Yes, yes, I know, im amazed and bedazzled in my presence too!"
*Goes up to random person*
Narc: "Hey buddy, pal, how are you today? :)"
Random person: "Uh.....fine ig? Although I'm a bit confused why you are even talking to me now...We've never talked before...and usually you are just mean to me."
Narc: "What?! No way!! What you talking about? You are my best pal! My best friend!"
Random person: "Oh...I thought you hated me..."
Narc: "WHAT?! I don't hate nobody! I'm the most bestest kindest loving person ever!"
*other rich narc walks in* "hey bro"
Narc: *random person gets ignored*
"Yo, another narc! How are you man? Great, great...hey did you hear...?"
*completely walks away with other narc and ignores everybody else*
Thanks buddy.. right now.. I'm dealing wid mah narcc. Gf and you know i love her wid all mah heart ..so yesterday sum argument happened and now she texted me tht i never liked her even tho she knows tht i do .and she is saying tht mah relationship is a experiment for me.... I'm truly hurt ...but i can't tell her that i knkw that she is narcasisistic..i love her I can't break her heart ...wht should i do
It's so hard to believe people can be like that. But I've seen it. I still don't want to accept it
I grew up with a narcissistic mother and sisters. One thing they all loved doing was making announcements. They all wanted to be the one telling people big news, even if it was something that was supposed to be kept under wraps. Is this a thing?
Oh dear that really flashed me and opened my eyes Thank you
This is absolutely precise. I fell for the amazing perception taking it for caring and, as the relationship went on, he would tell me how he would read the room, and how he would target women in the past (very much like a hobby). I started to learn that he was a predator just before an abrupt discard.
I am dealing with this in my professional life. I recently graduated with a teaching degree after being an assistant teacher for 7 years. My lead teacher (and supervisor) is supposed to be training me to take over for her after she retires at the end of this school year. However, she has not even begun to let me do my old job (which she was doing while I was student teaching for 4 months). She is good at faking empathy, but her jealousy of me clearly shows. After I returned to work, I shared that my oldest son got a job promotion and I don't even think she heard me (my son is 23). Later the same week, she mentioned that her daughter (who is 44) got another big promotion and I was genuinely happy for her daughter. My boss is the queen of our building, mainly because she has worked for the same agency for 41 years, but really isn't a great role model. I do have an opportunity to teach in my own classroom for the remainder of the year and I am praying that this is my opportunity to shine and really use my skills that I have worked on in the past three years.
So true! Thanks for another great video Dr. Ramani!
This video is SOOOOOO GOOD, OMG! One of the best I've listened to about narcissists, and I've watched A LOT OF THEM haha
Another really great and vital video for navigating social life. Thanks!
I’ve always enjoyed watching and listening… your work has always made my awareness so strong… thank you, sincerely, Gary
what a good video finally I find the support for my thoughts I needed. I hope to be able to buy your book and I wish you the best success when it gets published your videos and this channel have helped me so much that maybe not even expensive therapy could get me closer to the truth. Thank you Dr. Ramani a year full of successful things.
Thank you dr Ramani ❤ your observations and advice are brilliant. 😊
Excellent distinction and super important
Thank you for this very clear explanation and for the metaphor of a thief casing a bank. I will take that with me from now on.
Yet again, a profoundly beneficial video that opened my eyes to things I hadn't yet considered. Thank you for your incredibly clear explanations, Dr Ramani. You truly are a gifted teacher.
ONE HELL OF A SALESPERSON! I'M NOT BUYING IT ANYMORE! LOL
LOVE YOR WORK DR. RAMANI. INSTRUMENTAL IN HEALING SO MANY OF US! BLESS YOU
I'm glad you mentioned this doesn't apply to the vulnerable narcissist but I feel like maybe that needs more expansion? My parent is the classic vulnerable emotionally immature type. There's no scheming or games. She's genuinely caring. There's just a disconnect with that caringness. It's not performative, but it's sort of like, they care about the idea of you? When you don't want what they expect it throws them, and they try to correct your want rather than correcting their approach. It makes it really hard to recognise the patterns that are completely non predatory but a lot of the same patterns none the less
Very informative, thank you very much!
Another slam dunk from Dr Ramani. Thank you so much.
Thank you for this one! I really like the distinction you made between empathy and social perception. And I have definitely mistaken social perception for empathy in my life.
Yessssss! It helps, a LOT thank you Dr.Ramani
Thank you very much dr ramani for your videos. You are always wise and helpfull.
My adult (44yo) daughter suffers from ADHD & PTSD, and trauma. She's also a narcissist. No empathy for what she's put the rest of the family through. None for her mom, me. BUT she will RUN to the aid of anyone experiencing a medical emergency (she was trained as an EMT), such as a car wreck, etc. How can it be that she is so empathetic to strangers, but not to her immediate family??
She runs to help others because it gets her praise for being the hero.
Maybe her reasons for loving seeing people hurt are very far from empathy
Yes, it did almost trick me. I was confused. Yet my intuition is aware that he has a lack of self awareness. He acts automatically. I definitely know there is no reciprocation for caring. It’s a favor for him to give me a neck massage if he can stay focused. Thank you once again for sharing your knowledge to give me clarity. 🌻
Have a Happy New Year. 🙂
Thank you for this video Dr. Ramani. Faux empathy by the narcissist was one of the confusing narcissistic games for me to unravel.
This is amazing❤
Yes, I have learned the hard way what empathy is and isn't..you are not the only one that was fooled...I really appreciate your insight on narcissist's, it has helped me immensely...thank you.
All information right on from my having lived a lifetime of this seesawing from empathy and nonexistent! They are quite good at sounding empathetic but then it goes away when you are hooked in whatever way they need! 😢
Charm and “performative empathy.” Great description. Huge difference between the performing /acting empathetic and being truly empathetic where they can understand and have compassion for the other person. They recognize feelings and emotions and craft their persona accordingly.