The Insidious Nature of Covert Narcissism
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- Опубліковано 29 кві 2024
- Covert abuse tends to be more 'under the radar' than overt abuse and manipulation. It has victims doubt their own sanity, uncertain if they are being abused and sometimes question if in fact they are being abusive.
This video outlines how covert narcissists confuse, gaslight and abuse their victims through being passive aggressive and from a position of helplessness and victimhood.
How Narcissists Threaten • How Narcissists Threat...
How Covert Narcissists Manipulate • How Covert Narcissists...
Please feel free to suggest any topics you might like me to cover in future videos in the comment section.
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#narcissisticabuseawareness #narcissism #covertnarcissist
Please feel free to suggest topics you'd like me to cover in future videos
Intimacy Anorexia?
A video topic suggestion. What ways have people become aware of what they are dealing with.
FYI: topic inspired by comment from StewieAndStella 🤗
Can you please do a video on the insane amount of crossover and comorbidity between NPD and PPD? What the crossover is, where the lines are blurred, and what is specifically unique to each? Also as someone else said, 'Intimacy Anorexia' would be a good one as well because my ex was naturally a very tender, affectionate and loving women but you could never get close to her in any way, very secretive, withheld any kind of love, real hugs and sex. There was always an excuse and she would always pull away or not let you in to what she is feeling or thinking etc. It was one of the most damaging, unnatural and confusing things about our relationship.
Can you please do a video on :
*Are narcissists paranoids* ?
Thank you Dr.
Give me an overt any day. Moving back with the covert has destroyed me. Update: I found a small apartment, and am moving. The sense of peace at my new place is amazing. My body is finally unwinding and relaxing after years of chronic abuse. I never thought this day would come. I pray everyone can find a way out. 🙏🏻
Yeh it's truly insidious...how I stayed for 20 years baffles me to this day ....
I really needed to read this today, I have been frozen in limbo about what to do since I learned about coverts in the last few weeks and realised my so-called partner is one. All the insanity is real, but I was made to feel it was all my fault. And that he is a hero to the outside world but ice cold and controlling at home. I was thinking of going back to him because we haven’t properly split up, I just stepped away three weeks ago because he savaged me with his anger and contempt one too many times. Buy my friends are right, he has been abusing me for years. Hard to tell with coverts who love bomb, attack, deny, minimise and blame. Your comment made me realise it will never change. 🙏🏻💖
@@Jettypilelegs Sorry Jetty....it truly is a huge light bulb moment.....the covert narc is insidious for sure......hope youre doing ok
@@greghayes7933 I’ve always been incredibly poor and been street homeless a few times and he is wealthy, so it’s easy for him to love bomb me and for me to ignore red flags because at least I have a roof over my head. Until I woke up and realised he had put my fire out and I’m like a hollow tree trunk. And that that’s not ok! It’s good to know you are thriving and living happily. 💖
I came across a link to Covert Narcissist a week ago and I felt my world fall apart. I knew something was wrong but just could not see it until then.
"They attack from the position of victimhood"
Whew! 🤦
They also try to use whatever they think they know about you against you … give them fake truths and wait for it to come back up
They will give you the silent treatment one minute, pretend to be your friend the next minute, start a smear campaign with triangulation the next minute, then plot to rob and hurt you in the end.
They are wicked people and they’re very common in neighborhood communities.
Nothing is ever enough. Nothing. You can (and should) always give more, do more, love more, care more, work more, earn more, cook and clean more, do the honey-do list more, praise more, engage more. Everything that isn't them is competition, whether it's a half hour game show or the dog.
"Covert narcissist can throw a stone, say it wasnt me that hurt you, it was the stone. Deny the victim is in pain, then weep openly because the victim was rude to their favorite stone." Great explanation.
Covert narcissists can wet the blanket and get traumatised and offended by the wet blanket.
Having a covert narc as a parent is terrible. They are such victims, and groom their kids from day 1, I don’t think they even know that what they are doing is wrong. Nobody outside the home sees it, so there is nobody to call them on it.
They don't know, and that's why they leave us so confused, because they are so certain of their own righteousness and victimhood 😔
As their children, we soak up this attitude and can behave in a similar way until we wake up and realize what we're doing. I cought myself feeling like a victim when nothing bad was really happening to me. It's such an embarrassing relief to realize that I'm actually fine, that the issues I'm having are totally manageable and that the people I'm having the issues with are happy to talk to me and meet me half way.
It seems that the difference between those of us who are willing to see our own learned helplessness and are working hard to overcome it, and covert narcs is that they lack insight and are unable or unwilling to see that they might be creating their own misery.
@@katharina... so true! We all have these tendencies, but it’s the narcs who use them and then deny it. So frustrating, and hurtful.
@@thescapegoatclub Indeed. And we're not allowed to feel hurt either, because how dare we hurt them by saying that they hurt us, that's so hurtful 🤯😔
@@katharina... OMG, yes! This is crazy-making. Saying how we feel somehow makes them the victim. 😞
@@thescapegoatclub Goodness, it's such an amazing feeling to chat to someone who gets it! 🤗 I don't have anyone in real life who knows what I'm talking about or understands the effects of this kind of crazy-making. Particularly those of my friends who met my parents (but even those who hadn't), keep telling me: surely they couldn't have been that bad if they were able to raise you to be such a genuinely kind, well balanced human being. Agh 😔 My best best wishes to you, The Scapegoat Club! 💚😊
My covert pretends not to hear me and in 23 years of marriage, there has never been one problem resolved. He has never kept his word about what we would do together. There is no 'we' in this marriage.
Amen, married 11 years to my cover narc wife and I am the complaint department and a resource supplier, that is all. If I have a need, tough. If I have a want, tough. If she wants something, I'd better be thinking of how to make it happen. She has alienated my children from me, run me down to them, undermined me to them, about as rough as it can be made on me. I need out of shawshank.
@@dANbRnL I thank God we have no children, he is frigid and emotionally cruel but has never been a tightwad with money, never called me names, or hit me. He just never does anything he says he will, no intimacy, no conversation. I do not know why I stayed... I just did not want a divorce. Now I am too old, tired, and sick to leave.
@@dixsigns1717 My wife has long been frigid towards me, 3 years now to be exact. I had several women approach me in the last couple of years and I turned it away because I was trying to be honorable. I should have taken them up on their advances.
This describes my narc to a T
@@josejuja I feel for you man, I do. It feel powerless most days, I hate feeling like that.
I am a child of two narcissistic parents. My dad was an overt one, and my mom the covert one. But the scary part is that I recognize some of my own behaviors. I am shy and introverted, I need assurance in a relationship, I easily feel left out, I can blame the other person for my sense of feeling lost, I have my past of trauma and abuse... Luckily, there are some traits I don't have. But it seems to me there could be a fine line between being a victim and behaving like the abuser - especially when you've never encountered good examples.
Took over a decade for me to realize what was going on... my children and i are free now from him. Thank you sir.
Good for you 👍 👏 🙌 👌 😉
They're very very confusing people to deal with. Took me a similar amount of time to properly see what was going on also
Darren, you nailed this on the head! It has taken me several decades to figure it out because I was broken when I got in it. Working to leave now and looking forward to my freedom!
It took me over 3 decades to get away. I just didn't know what I was doing wrong, and then after he moved out I started putting the pieces together.
I’m trying to figure out how to exit my eight year two children relationship myself. Very challenging with kids…Happy you made it out! Solidarity
I just finalized a divorce from a female covert narcissist who I was with for 12 yrs. Everything you described in this video I endured without having any sense of how abusively I was being treated. I wish I could go back in time and warn myself that this relationship would cost me mentally and physically to the point of almost destroying me- and to run as fast as I could to a different future. Now having gone though and survived this storm, I am sharper to this than I ever imagined and stronger in my boundaries than I ever thought I could be- it’s like having a pair of X-ray glasses on where you can see people for who they really are.. a delightful dance or dangerously detrimental.
Thank you for this video- you have helped me regain my footing to move forward to a better future. I am indebted.
I was too subject to this and now 17 months trying t recover
We all wish this. What is so difficult about this particular disorder is that you don't see them coming, much like a psychopath, until it's too late.
Those x-ray glasses you mention...being able to very quickly pick up on a confluence of statements, traits, behaviors, thought patterns...that can be a bit shocking when you begin to see how very many people have these tendencies, and all the people around you who are narcissists that you never realized before...all the family members.
@@le_th_ I'm struggling with this knowledge right now, pretty much everyone seems to have narcissistic traits. A lot of my family is narcissistic (which isn't really surprising) but they are occasionally capable of empathy and caring about each other. I don't know how to explain this.
only person who been with these demons knows what a nightmare they are
After nearly 20 years, I realized my best friend was the Covert Narcissist. And what’s the most upsetting to me is how often she used me as a “tool” to abuse her husband.
I simply thought I was being the supportive best friend and often spoke on her behalf with her husband to help him “do better”.
I’m honestly sick at heart knowing how easily she manipulated everyone in her life including myself. I went no contact over 7 months ago and the sense of relief I immediately felt was astounding!
This would be an excellent video topic. "How did you come to realize..."
How did you realize that you were caught in the delusional snare of your ' friend ' ?
I had a friend I thought the world of, we got on very well for about 4 years. She would often talk about how terrible her husband was to her , and I would show her my full support by showing empathy and listening. Till one day I actually went to her house and saw her interacting with her husband. There was nothing but pure venom coming out of her and he seemed so intimidated by her. I was sickened to my stomach about how she was acting to him. It was not the behavior of a victim standing up to their abuser, but the behavior of an abuser. And that was the day that I knew something was very wrong.
A group of us had a really great friend ( now passed ) but his wife - huh - we knew who she was. It now has a name COVERT. Looking back - we really must of pissed her off a lot because we never let her get to us. We remained really close to him all the way til he passed. 30 + years knowing this couple. Now that she is a widower- pretty much everyone + her family has dropped her like a bad habit. Even to this day - she brings nothing to the table for anyone & goes on with life. And I might add - struggling with aging. 🤔 no one else left to abuse.
I have had a couple of these. One is in 100% denial about her behavior. But once you Know the signs and behaviors, you cannot Unknow them.
When you said how they aren't about resolution that really hit home with me. When I was growing up I experienced this with my parents. When you're a kid living under these conditions it sometimes takes a lifetime to figure this out. I now know there will never be resolution with a narcissist. Thank you! I see you love Star Trek, so do I!
They are never concerned with resolution, only with continuing to drive home that they are in charge. If they have an angle of abuse, they will never want to give that up. Resolving something gives that up. Furthermore, resolving something means taking accountability and a narcissistic person will never do that. A narcissistic person will never meet you in the middle. It is their way or the highway. They will gaslight, abuse and manipulate you into thinking it is all your fault, all the time.
@@dANbRnL Very true.
Very true. My mom's favorite line was "because I said so and I'm the adult". My SO denies any of our problems actually exist. Sounds different but they both mean they have no interest in resolution. Patterns....
It's one punishment after another for a perceived insult. It seems to be their goal to disrespect, inflict pain and blame shift onto the victim. They are covert because they have an agenda most people would shame them for.
I told my ex wife I was too depressed to assist her with Xmas Dinner. I'm not a chauvinist. I just couldn't bring myself to care about potatoes. We had visited my mum that afternoon and I was feeling so low and empty after. She was in long term hospital care and I was her designated visitor. I watched her slowly die for almost four years. She was so intelligent, so selfless and so loving. After a major op, she suffered brain damage, seizures/strokes, lost all mobility, was bed ridden and had a chronic/incurable infection which ultimately killed her. It broke my heart. This Christmas visit somehow just really hit home for me. Life as I knew it etc etc...Later that day I referred to the upset again and she sarcastically snapped at me "Oh yeahhh cos you're SOOOO depressed about your mum." while rolling her eyes. I stormed out. Cue six hours of me ignoring her crying sounds from the next room. Why? Because, as I told her, I couldn't face yet another moment where she will say she's done no wrong and where I am the one who ends up apologising.
I knew I was right. I knew she was manipulating me. I knew what she had said earlier that day. I saw her eyes roll. I knew if I went in there she wouldn't apologise and I somehow would. I knew all this and still... Its exactly what happened. She was so hurt. I had misinterpreted her words. She didn't mean that. How could I possibly think she would be so cruel to me or to anyone. I was the cruel one for putting her down and making out she would be capable of such cruel words. So once again it was I, in the wrong, and apologising to her.
It's both remarkable and frightening to look back and see how blind, lost and desperate these people can make you and the deeper in you are the worse it gets.
Well then get out!
What’s keeping your from it?
The golden cage…
And I can relate, with my mum it was very similar. Why would you spend one more minute with such a selfish and emotionally immature partner?
@@karadiberlino she's long gone now my friend but you are right.
I appreciate you deep diving into the covert narcissist. until then I had a lot of doubts if I was actually with one or was just abusive myself and delusional. You are restoring my sanity. Thank you for all that you do!
I felt the same way. Thought maybe it was me.
Yeah, they are like relentless shapeshifters.
Mine has contacted my family to get them to think that I am the problem. Time will tell who will eventually see what was really going on.
Thank you for the detailed breakdown. It is mind boggling how their behaviors are textbook except there aren’t textbooks for us to have learned from when it would have made a difference for us older folks. I hope this saves younger generations from our fates.
Lifetime. First mother then spouse +mother. Both covert with enough similarity to give me the fake comfort, I see now it was familiarity and masks. Between them both I have been completely convinced I was the problem. She groomed, trained, controlled, and conditioned me. He continued with that and added tons more types of abuse and violence.
My default stress response of freezing and fawning from childhood never evolved into fighting or fleeing so stuck I have been with no help and isolated from anyone who could have helped me.
They both drilled fear into me so I had that wall I couldn’t scale while fettered by them.
Always I was not good enough and needed to do better and change and only do it their ways. Did they ever do better or change? Only for the worse and I was to blame for that too. Only started figuring it out at 46 years old and still blamed myself until after mother died and I started getting the education here on UA-cam and online. Too late for me to have the life I dreamed of and wanted. Now I am focused on surviving and getting stronger to get safely away from spouse.
@@mspheeincali7418 Wishing you all the best with your journey!! You will get there because you now have the knowledge!!
Excellent video , you describe the ex narc husband I am trying to divorce ( 35 years married ). Folks , it is never too late ! I am realist , he will keep delaying the divorce to control and keep me but I am beyond that now , detached , determined and ready . The freedom is so worth it , I have recovered my soul !
I’m fairly certain you have met my mother and are talking about her specifically 😅😳
You hit everything I experienced. I am an old woman. And I just realized it is not me who is " vindictive" or " do not think right". Going on 51 years of marriage. Feeling it was " your fault". Of course I did incorrect things at times in a 51 year time span. But nothing at all that comes to " being vindictive" ( which I know I NEVER was/ am a vindictive person). Your saying that when they say they will start doing something different. It is short lived. That really hit home for what I experienced. And yes. I am told over and over " you do not think straight" while my husband points his finger at his own head while saying that to me. Meaning he is calling me nuts for noticing he does what he wants even if that means it causes me to have less of living as most people do. He speaks to people ( his brother, maybe some friends. As he has a circle of friends and an outlet) while he makes very sure to keep me isolated. To the point he MAKES sure go go to stores EVERYDAY ( as though he is doing a difficult job) which keeps me from ever going out of the house. That is going on 10 years now. Since he retired and is at home 24/7 ( minus his going to grocery stores everyday) which keeps me in this house. He is like living with a junior high school punk who played sick to stay home from school and decided to make the most of it by laying around and expects to be serviced ( when he CHOOSES to be!) and wants to be left alone to do ONLY what he enjoys doing. Thank you for this video. I know I am NOT an abuser or a nut case. Or a burden. It's the other way around. It is taking courage to leave this comment. As it does make me seem stupid. Not being stupid is the ONE thing I AM sure about myself. I am FAR from stupid. I had better stop writing now. Or I will cause myself to look stupid by saying even more
You don't deserve to be treated like crap. Hope you can safely escape. They get worse sadly
I was 40yrs ……keep your chin up n have a plan in your head .
Oh my heart goes out to you. Sending loads of gentle hugs and hope in your emerging power.
Same. My heart goes out. Keep watching the videos and you will start healing and soon know what to do!
Get a secret plan to leave and even fake happiness a bit to hide it. Hide important docs and stuff little by little with a friend, enough to get by in a new place. Be very careful to act the same. Then one day when he’s at the store, make your escape. He won’t see it coming
They are sooo subtle that usually, no one thinks they are actually TRYING to play the victim. Mine would quietly happen to mention while on the phone to his mom that we were getting ready to eat dinner. It JUST SO HAPPENED that he was on the phone to her when I was struggling and didn't have dinner ready until late. It was his way of letting his very traditional mother know that he was being neglected by his wife. He was very quiet and humble with his delivery, but it was CALCULATED every single time. Took me forever to catch on, but you look crazy if you get mad. He's only stating a fact, not complaining, not saying anything "bad" about you. This was how he approached his entire smear campaign against me. Never would directly converse with me about our relationship or work on ways to improve it. I got stonewalled anytime I tried to approach it. Or manipulated or gas lit, or verbally/emotionally abused. He was cheating on me the entire time. But by the time it all came out, he had his backstory all firmly in place, to explain how miserable he was in our relationship and to explain WHY he was driven into the arms of another woman. When she left him after I told her all about him, he "decided" he loved me and wanted me back. He was sooo sorry, but once he felt sure I wasn't leaving, it was eventually put forth that it was "your fault too, but you don't want to accept any responsibility for it". And then more verbal abuse, more stonewalling, more blame-shifting, more emotional abuse. He absolutely still stuck to all his lies, and blamed me for "never being happy" and wanting to "humiliate" him when I would push back on his lies. He'd fly into a rage, throw things, draw back his fist, etc., when I called him on his lies. Covert narcs are the absolute WORST. They can make you lose all will to live and doubt your own sanity. To the outside world, it looks like they are doing all the right things. Only when you are inside the relationship, buried under their bullshi@, can you finally see the truth.
Perfect. Every single thing 100%.
A covert narcissist will stomp on your foot, and when you say "ouch"! they'll say that your foot shouldn't have been in the way and that THEY didn't hurt you, but rather it was your fault. And then they'll vilify you for saying "ouch" and say you're dramatic.
This is the reactive abuse cycle, along with all the other things you discussed. As for the coded language, I once heard that they fail to use people's names on purpose, when relaying a story to you, because they view them as objects. Not real people. And they need to appear mysterious and interesting, which they are neither. But they like to keep you guessing as to who, what, where. Like WTAF is going on in this story?! 😂
Literally the foot thing happened to me several times along with other things.
Another reason why they don’t say the names, is that they are lying and you, just maybe paying attention
👁
Omg the name thing….. my mother very rarely uses anyone’s name and you are left guessing who the heck she’s talking about. Or she makes up often derogatory nicknames for them. I’ve always found it disconcerting
My narcissist asks questions like ‘so we aren’t doing that ?’ Always a negative question that puts responsibility on me.
The truest thing I ever got to say to mine was “just because your voice is quiet, doesn’t mean it’s right. You can be cruel with a whisper”
😑 they are so tiring…:( my ma is this…it took over 40 yrs to finally accept…but I began seriously questioning her and my family’s reality in my 30’s…but I held on to the fantasy they would change…they won’t. I had to lose my dad to finally accept it.
If their actions over time don’t match their words - you got a decision to make for yourself .
Boyy, the moving gloaposts.. A very accurate analisys. Thank you.
Throws you off and you never feel grounded.
Thank you Darren for a great analysis of the covert narcisists behaviours. The example with the stone is perfect! Covert narcisists are the worst of them all, they are wolves in sheeps clothing and the masters of deceit.
Darren, absolutely spot on! This has been my reality for 51 years. I am free now. He passed away 2 months ago.
1000%
Hypersensitivity ( for themselves...) . No forgiveness small things . Avoiding intimacy. Shyness...Negativity.. Sometimes demonic impulsive agreession ( not proportional emotionally to situation). Passive agreession. Stone walling
@@cathybutcher4826 My experience was: I couldn't bring her to table to discuss certain important things in marriage. Like she didn't wanna talk or ignored me ..." Whatever...Do what you want , when we where buying house " And it wasn't stupid person.Well educated sensitive beatifull woman. Classy full of positive values. After while you had feeling like there is wall...You try hard to satisfy this person but you are never good enough. Where all this negativity was pessimism was coming from? There was no reason ( no reason generally and also financially no reason)
@@LucyFre It is heartbreaking. You may as well, literally, go and talk to a wall. The hardest part, for me, was coming to the realization that there is no hope and no changing or fixing the situation.
My ex had no money because he couldn't be bothered to get a job. I felt sorry for him so paid for everything. I realised later he had big savings, much more than me. He always felt he was entitled to my money and would get angry of I didn't pay for him. Zero compromise, zero intimacy, always in a world of his own, lots of narc rage, jealousy for no reason and if I said anything about any of these issues then he would rage and then collapse into depression. It relationship was only 7 months but it causes me deep pain that continues to today even after 10omtjs NC. He blamed me for all his abuse. So destructive.
My dad is an Overt Narcissist, my mum is a Covert. He has been much easier to deal with because it’s so out there and everyone can see it. But my mum… wowee. Talk about doubting your own reality! All of those things you’ve talked about. Thank you so much Darren. Being able to put language around this and to even just begin to see that this is not my fault is huge. I’ve had to go not contact with both parents - it’s a really isolating place to be - but watching these videos helps me feel like I’m not so alone.
Oh and don’t be physically ill or depressed about anything. They don’t care and if more than a few weeks or months they are out the door. So much for all the “love” they professed. Be well fellow survivors.😇🙏
mine claimed to be a “gentleman” until he was done with his script 4 months later, claimed to understand my mental illness & then calling it manipulation, showed fake affection when he saw & heard me cry, covert narcs can’t have you being weak around them esp when they’re starving!
It made such a huge difference when my covert narcissist sister had a lovely partner who was a great buffer between her and the rest of the world. We realized after he died young (mid-fifties) just how much he normalized her by interpreting the world for her.
When he raged at me and I cried he would then say don't be upset you know I love you. You have described my ex covert 100%
I can’t believe it took me more than 10 years to realize I was in such a relationship.
It's like you grew up with me in my house & are describing my exact mother. Incredible.
Also my mother.
Absolutely stupendous, Thank you so much for this Darren, Beautifully described, Coverts always act like you've done them wrong, When they are the wrong doers, Always play victim and give you sob stories to draw you in, I'm well aware of these individuals, Peace, love to you Darren and everyone, Thank you universe 🧿😃💜🧝♀️🐉✨️💎🌌👽⚘️😍💫🌹🌹😁💞🌈💚⚽️🛸😊
The eternal victim just wore me down. The whining, complaining. It wasn't about getting what he wanted because he'd change with the wind. It was about getting a thrill over watching people dance. And what I called The Notebook of Injustices....I was trying to white knuckle thru the marriage 'for the children' but he had an affair so BYE!
I work with a classic case , knowing your enemy is a way to deal with them
This explanation of covert/vulnerable narcissism is absolutely spot on…
Covert narc mother:
"The Royal We".
Example: We wouldn't look suitably presentable wearing those clothes would we?
Scarily close to home Darren
Thank you Darren. This gives me some food for thought, especially about the indirect communication. They like to control others with their moods. They will go into a silent funk and expect others to make a fuss over how to read their minds and make them feel better. Later they can cash in on plausible deniability to evade responsibility.
It took me so long to put this all into place. I made so many excuses and "Justs" for trying to protect and take care of him. I even USED the words "fragile" and "vulnerable" over and over. Without ever knowing this can be a narcissist presentation.
The most impressive thing that i cant understand is how they switch so fast from friendly to a menace
Its because the kindness is fake
This is so accurate …from the first time I met the “poor little black sheep” to the miserable exhausting loneliness that is every single day. Thank you for understanding
My ex displayed traits of both covert and overt narcissistism...She just took up with someone else and never spoke to me again in the end, after being together for 11 years and raising two kids from toddlers, whom I miss very much and am deeply bonded with.
It took me some time to overcome trauma bonding, and only now am I getting there....I still feel a knot in my throat and in the pit of my stomach, and my mind seeks for the answers that will never be forthcoming.
Your description of the stone-throwing covert narcissist was gold 😄
It took me decades to realize I was with a covert. Our therapist was/is an overt narcissist so he was actually an impediment to my realization. After leaving his care it took me about 4 years to realize I was with a covert. I have learned to live my life parallel to his presence in our home. It feels soooo great to be able to invest in my own life, vs constantly trying to gain the love and interest of the covert. When he goes into withdrawal it just means more free time for me. I will never invest more than the covert on a moment to moment basis. And I totally ignore immature ploys for adoration.
I had to leave the country as I couldn’t bear to be under the same roof as him. He blocked /sabotaged my every way out: abroad was my only option/escape. He destroyed my life.
I’ve been married to covert narc for 32 years. Just figured this all out a little over a year ago and am coming out of the fog and becoming strong. There are entire years of time that he claims to not be able to remember. He can’t remember any of the abuse that took place. Do you think the not being able to remember is a ploy or do you think that the brain damage they received in their childhood really makes it impossible to hold onto memories that are unfavorable? He can remember a few other things. Just not the abuse.
Vanessa they DO remember everything. They forget NOTHING. These folks are monsters. Believe NOTHING they say. I say they are terrorists. Leave and find the peace and joy that you deserve
@Cynthia Fortier They practice "selective amnesia" ... I'm sorry for the unfortunate situationship you had to endure
Like a candle you must have sacrificed in a myriad of ways, thinking its for your marriage, for the better half you've been blessed with 🫠🙏🏽..
The issue unfortunately, this ppl can't feel love the way we do... It's only transactional relationships they know + they genuinely believe everyone are like them ... Sigh, what to do 🤷🏽♂️
Its called Fake Amnesia They only remember what is convenient for them
They know. They are 😈😞
Like Darren says , “They abuse, while playing the victim.”
The fact that you even give his “amnesia” or “dementia defense the benefit of plausibility demonstrates how well he has entrained you, brainwashed you, conditioned you. Trust your memories and your gut: he’s manipulating and lying in one full swoop!
Packs of these creatures gather together in the darkest parts of the web, just to single out and prey on repeat targets they never let go of. The carnage is as real as the mass shootings nobody seems to realize weren't in existence BEFORE the internet.
Omg this describes someone I know, it’s crazy. Saying and doing things to get a response and reaction rather than just communicating in a normal way and being a victim all the time, it drives me nuts
Excellent video thank you it is true you'll never be good enough for a narcissist even a top model and very well mannered they would look for faults it is good to get away from these abusive types
I’ve never heard this described more clearly. Thank you.
Endless mind reading, endless looks of contempt and disdain, endless guilt tripping, endless shaming and blaming, but the one thing I noticed is a covert narc parent does not notice when their child is abused by others be that physical emotional or whatever, they simply do not notice and turn a blind eye. If however you say the mildest thing and read their mind wrong they turn on the silent treatment leaving you utterly bereft and confused. Or you might get a venom word salad of how bad you are. All the while they have no empathy for you and don't notice anything you're struggling with. They're the victim, their back story is way worse than yours anything and in my mother's case, "well, where was I when that happened", I don't know mother, where the hell were you! FYI they don't get better with age especially if their friends have passed anything day and they have less supply. A covert narc parent is never there when you need them
Unfortunately, my kid is married to one and refuses to recognize it is a horribly dangerous covert narcissist. Trapped! Please help with tips how can I take my kid out of the illusion before they are completely drained and left deceived!!!
you can't
Fitting title and your description below video is spot on. I only ever encountered one and I reckon she wrote the book.
One favourite sentence is “I don’t know”
Wow! This hits home.
The mental turmoil is indescribable and people who haven't experienced it, just can't understand how you can be so manipulated.
This has summed up my experience deadset to probably 95% accuracy. Goddamn
I have known a narcissist so closely that she appears to be both an overt narcissist as well as a covert narcissist - overt narcissist with some people, whom she wants to insult and belittle and covert narcissist with some others, whom she wants to have full control of because they are the ones who are useful for her to forward her agenda.
Most narcissists use tactics they think will work, depending on the situation and audience. If they think the audience will side with a loud and “confident” person, they maybe overt. If they know their behavior may not be well received, they will be covert, they may even shed some tears.
4:25 ...this is soooo common among so many people. I get so sad when workplaces I have been to, where the topic in breaks and lunches are just about gossip of others.
There are some people that leaves you with a sense of being "wrong" or "weird" that makes me doubt myself and is incredibly destructive if you adhere to it, or if it is said by someone you actually think is a good friend.
I wish there was a way to highlight this issue more, because any relationship, wether private or from work/school should be positively reciprocating eachothers strengths and abilities. Finding ways to communicate in a way that is showing support, affirmation, acknowledgement and in a respectful way, even if opinions disagree, we can have a meaningful and empathetic approach to evolve communication in a healthy way.
No wonder so many in society today struggle with mental health issues when the climate of dialogues has turned into passive aggressive poison delivered to slowly dissolve ones sense of self-worth, self-esteem and self image.
There are so many wanting to air their opinion which they are entiteled to, but who do not see the consequences of them airing some things that has no purpose or function other than dragging down what they targeted with their opinion.
Some say it's better to be truthful (as a defense for airing demoralizing opinions)
I.e. if someone finds some article of clothing non flattering.
Should you say omg [insert derogatory terms here]
Or is there another way of delivering a well-intentioned suggestion?
For me, I try to encourage if a person feels good about themselves, no matter what I think, it is the person wearing that needs to feel nice & comfortable and with that self-confidence will get a boost.
I wish I knew this in my teens. People really need to know subtile and covert attacks on self-/worth/esteem/image
It is important to be aware of this. Thank you.
Spot on descriptions and examples, as always.
What I would also point to is their absolutely shocking two-facedness they will go from completely the terrified shook up victim to smirking and hubris at the drop of a hat, it only depends on who’s ’dominating’ (in their mind) that specific moment. That‘s actually the number one sign of a covert for me whenever you‘re down for whatever reason they feel elated you will see the smirk and you WILL get the fake pity the talking down on it makes them feel great, however when you‘re doing great they will start playing the victim they will completely devalue your achievement (‚so and so got the promotion way earlier into their career‘, ’many people have achieved xyz‘ etc), the devaluation is often so subtle where it sounds as if they‘re just chiming in with some related story but in your gut you know sth‘s off, it‘s the small and subtle daily digs that will destroy you over time, run as fast you can,
these people will create hell on earth for you
So true smh
If I did not have a corporate career I would have lost my mind with the covert narc in a 32 yr marriage. The last time I was given the silent treatment and passive aggression, the smirk and underlying anger about everything, he had a heart attack. Am a widow and still have no emotions of that day. Hearing my own voice of reasoning and freedom indeed paved a wonderful healthy life for me now.
He went out like a champ
12 years married to a Fake husband. I didn't realize what he is until the brutal discard. He filed for divorce June 1st but he's making the process delayed. Liar,cheater, malicious, vile. My adult daughter, myself and our home with 9 pets are all the collateral damage
My elderly covert narc MIL to a tee. Nightmare woman to have to deal with. We walked away 3-4 yrs ago.
Never ceases to amaze me how accurate and very specific these videos are. There are just a handful of top UA-cam channels on narcissism and this is definiltey up there with the big narcissism-specific channels. Every word I know is hitting home with everyone watching it because we've lived every single word over and over again and will never forget, although hopefully, we all are able to heal, move on and grow again.
Bringing up things of offense from our childhood - 65 years later…still furious and upset yet passive aggressive. Seems engaged and sharing family experiences empathically then quite suddenly pivots to an “incident” from distant past where she has felt terribly wronged, misunderstood or hurt and not rescued by “anyone” (me) from her upset, misfortunes or abuse by other people-often our parents or extended family. The narrative is “you were treated better - looked better, unfair unfair unfair, you didn’t deserve or earn better treatment, cheater, shallow, sinner, too proud, vain, aggressive, irresponsible, etc etc etc. Pent up blame and resentment showered down upon me. This is a consistent narrative I cannot seem to impact with any amount of effort, attention, denial, understanding, explanation or empathic support. Our parents were both fairly narcissistic, one substance abuser and they emotionally neglected all of us. I was only 18months older than this sister, but she somehow believes I’m responsible for her passivity and emotional pain growing up. It is exhausting and frankly frustrating thinking I’m nurturing an adult relationship but she seems unwilling to accept I’m not that “bad” undeserving sister she cannot seem to forgive who got away with ??? and did not protect and rescue her. I was barely surviving our parents myself. It’s awful and sad this happened to us but worse it’s been carried on into the future after the parents are long gone. Trauma leaves a stamp on every person’s mind especially if exposed to it long term in childhood. Healing ❤️🩹 is possible but it’s not a quick fix nor easy…
Insidious, under the radar....so spot on! 👍 And love your humour at the end 😂😂 Thank you
I never thought anything was wrong with me. I just didn't understand what was his problem or why he was overreacting to things like a paranoid, overgrown baby with minimal emotional regulation when he was triggered by something random. He actually was calmer when their was a real issue. But when it was in his head he lost it. I thought a couples therapist would point out the insanity of his ways. And after some progress he doubled down and got even worse until he blew the relationship up beyond repair with his betrayal and false accusations.
But his feelings are evidence is a true fact of what they belive and how they act.
I'm just watched this and a few other videos about this and for the most part you were spot on. It's somewhat different since we both are autistic so certain things were different. But she actually broke up with me cause I had no life left in me and I couldn't give her what she wanted she cheated on me then accused me of cheating. In the end I was a husk of the person I was and she lost interest. She then turned around called me abusive and called me a narcissist on her Facebook page. Even lied about me to the few ppl I still had in my life. She actively tried to weaponize the mental health system against me. I'm so happy to be free but at the same time I'm so confused and lost.
FYI she convinced my friend of 4years who was our roommate to turn on me and got kicked out of my home. But thankfully friends have been helping and come the first I will be on a new lease with someone who treats me like her kid especially since I'm friends with her son. So thank fully after being homeless the last 2 months I'm finally have a home again.
This is the most accurate description I’ve ever heard, thank you 🙏🏻
It's about time someone said it >> Darren Magee is by far the number 1 authority on COVERT Narcissism on UA-cam
This is scary accurate.
Thank you, thank you, I have dealt with this problem of narcissism all my life with my family. They hate any good deeds I do and boast of their own good deeds. They attempt to schmooze my husband and treat me disrespectfully hoping he will think something is wrong with me. I have cut them off from us so that we see them only one time a year. During that time I keep my distance but am hospitable not allowing myself to become like them. They would like nothing better than to cause rude reactions from me. I do not give it to them.
I just broke up with someone who does a lot of these things. His word salad when he “feels attacked,” lies, shifting blame, addiction, constant complaining, endless excuses, etc. Last night he told me I’m psychopathic because I tried to get him to read a book. And he said I’m a narcissist because I left the party to go for a walk and didn’t go out of my way to socialize with anybody (I didn’t know anyone at the party and small talk is dreadful), and of course he won’t let me finish anything I try to say, I told him I’m an introvert and he said said “introvert, extravert, narcissism, it’s all the same” … I was like whaaaaat the fuck. I texted him what he said to me right after he said it. On my drive home he texted back that I “misinterpreted” what he was saying. Then said “drive safe.” OMG…. it’s insane, does he even know how messed up he is?
Love that last part about wetting the bed, it’s a good explanation of the difference between overt and covert, lol 😄
Interesting how there's a big overlap between toxic narcissist behaviors and the toxic behaviors of avoidant attachment styles
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! Raised by an abusive Overt Narcissist, and always promised myself I would never marry one, so instead kept picking COVERTS! 😮💨🙏🕊️
It was so difficult and at times still difficult for for me to see clearly that my ex partner was in fact the person you describe because I personally have many failings and flaws ,namely apathy and career underachievement that have always been part of my personality that compromised the equality of our relationship.This made me feel inadequate compared to her in the relationship.
But this explanation and others have enabled me to identify her condition and explain her behaviour patterns very clearly.
I now realise she would not have wanted me as a partner if I was her equal or better .
I am working on acceptance of myself and failings and am improving these slowly everyday and finally free of the mouse wheel I was on dealing with my covert narricist
Thankyou.
My mother in a nutshell. Took me a long time to notice something was off, and then more still to realize the full extent, the true level of dysfunction involved. When a bird is born and grows up in a cage, that's the only reality he knows.
Today in my 40's, I realize the full extent of my own maladaptive behaviors; everything that I never learned and - worse - learned wrong. I realize I'll never develop into the person I "was supposed" to, that I would have in a more nurturing and less hostile environment.
I can only barely cope with face to face socialization. It's hard to understand what people truly mean and want, and I'm always committing faux passes and making a fool of myself. If we're being completely honest, humans aren't fans of brutal honesty, transparency and directness; there's all sorts of protocols that must be adhered to, but never discussed or taught - because TALKING about them would expose uncomfortable truths, I hazard the guess.
Suppose I'm a mix of Schizoid and Avoidant now, as you call them. Oh well, who knows what I'd be complaining about in the quantum universe where I got a normal upbringing... might be divorced, paying alimony to a narc ex, getting alienated from my kids and drinking myself to death like father, or something.
DFM 👍
“I felt he found my letters and read each one out loud”. Wow, that hurt to listen to. It’s took me thirty years to find out it was not me after all.
The first 3 months dating my ex covert narc were great - mostly because I thought he was aneurotypical and victimised/bullied by the world because of it, so I did everything to love and adore him and show him that he deserves the best from a woman.
The day I decided to leave - 7 months into the relationship - he told me that black people are unintelligent and corrupt and that whites/coloureds should kick them out of Cape Town and they can have the rest of the country (I am South African)
I was shocked into silence... then he tried to play victim by saying, "This is what my parents taught me. It is so difficult learning that I don't belong anywhere and that everything they taught me is wrong."
I looked back and realised that he had been horrible from the start, and that I was dealing with a covert narcissist.
God help me. Married a covert. It’s the worst. Just the worst. Praying to survive my way out.
I learned everything there is to know about my father. Now we openly hate eachother.
My ex said she was lied and cheated on for many years by Narcissist. I said by her description that she seems not that effected by it.. But over the years i noticed it seemed to be her victim conversation with new people she met while i was in her company. Ok i listened to this pattern over and over as a good understanding partner. But over 5 years of us being together this pattern never changed. like she was never going to heal from the past. As if this actually defined who she was. I am more of a passive let those who have un resolved issues , work through them for themselves .One day she said 'i know what a narcist is and i think that you are one' . To be accused of what hurt her and she carried for ever. from a previous relationship I had to evaluate myself as this was a harsh accusation. I worked hard at understanding myself and traits of Narcissism. I came to the conclusion, either she is a Covert Narcissist or i'm a narcist in her eyes . Either way the relationship lingered for a while but died that day.
This marriage has been the worst thing that has ever happened to me
This behavior isn’t something they do consciously right? how can a person with these issues even fix these things if it is deeply rooted in the way they are? i hope this question makes sense
They know exactly what they are doing
Scary how relatable this is
Could you please describe/share your knowledge of neglectful narcissists? Thank you!
Brilliant description!
In the end the true victim of a narcissist is themselves.
They simply don’t care.. pretending to love u until something seemingly more valuable arrives.
This is absolutely spot on. Laughed out loud at "victim was rude to their favourite stone"! Keep up the good work Darren. Respect to you and your work from the NE of England.
This is spot on. Every word
What interests me is how some people fall for their act and some see right through them from the go.
This dynamic might be more about the pairing of narcissist and victim than it is just about narcissist themselves?