The REAL figures behind band 3 NHS dental charges and dentists going fully private
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- Опубліковано 13 сер 2022
- They say life happened, well wife happened. Anyhow, here’s a much delayed part 3 installment looking closely at the band 3 NHS dental charge and a continued mass exodus from NHS dentistry, as dentists leave in droves for the private sector
What is a band 3?
www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/denti...
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A lot of people can't afford to pay the prices dentists ask and i've personally had a lot of issues with it myself and the government and the NHS do not care one bit
Really useful information, especially for those who don't fully understand the NHS system, ridiculous you can wind up in the red for treating a patient and having done the hours of laborious work. Entirely broken system.
I have had a number of dentists over the years at the practice I attend , pre UDA and current UDA , I seen a few leave the practice and gone to work private at another practice . I am lucky my dentist sees me on NHS she owns the practice, my Mum goes private, and my Dad is happy to see anyone in the practice as he has dentures he goes once a year.
The UDA system is mad. When it first came in years ago, we as labs could see the problem straightaway!
The labs have really struggled! I agree. Very sad as they’ve effectively been hung dry
The problem is the govt sets arbitrary upper limits on what it is prepared to pay for care, irrespective of how much care is needed and how much / how long it will cost the provider to deliver that care. Why is 12 units the most they will pay, when they must know that many patients will need far more work than that could possibly cover. Patients are misled because they are so used to not having the think about the economics of the care they receive under the NHS.
At some point though, reality bites back……
What they need to do is pay more, much more, maybe 30-36 units for those patients needing the most care, who I’m going to assume are those who have not been the longest. Otherwise they’re expecting a service to be delivered for less than it costs, which is never going to work….
Excellent information, highly useful for me.
Thanks a lot. Very kind 🙌🏾
Good explanation. If only it was on the 6 o'clock news.🤔
Well done mate keep up the good work👍👍
Thanks buddy (no idea who this is)🙌🏾
Dental care is as iportant as any other treatment. Having just managed to find an NHS dentist that would see me and having had my top left wisdom tooth extracted, with another appointment booked for the bottom left and to fill the top right and bottom right and to refill a chipped inscisor- being able to eat normally has really improved my mental health and allows me to eat normal, nutritious food. Dental care under the NHS should have been expanding and improving, not turning private! Eg. Dental implants should be considered a neccessary medical procedure in some cases, any time they are possible and will improve the patients life- it is not a cosmetic procedure, it is a quality of life procedure! Preserving function should be iportant where it is possible. We should be taxing those who get us hooked on sugar laden drinks and snacks and making them pay for the damage!
I understand dentists wanting respect and fair treatment, but as a patient, being turned away for months with toothache that was destroying my life because it is not profitable to help me and our country doesn't see teeth as a priority is a mark of disrespect to me from the government who is supposed to be ensuring access to an important service. We need to respect dentists and patients by funding the service properly. People need dentists, you can't expect them to work for nothing- pay them as many patients can't afford to during this cost of existing crisis!
I agree with a lot of your comments and am pleased that you’ve managed to finally get some dental care and alleviate your symptoms.
Nhs dentistry funding is so poor and laughable that sadly I only see the situation getting worse, but you’re totally right. Things like dental implants are very much a preservation function and the WHO considers two implants in the lower arch to support a denture rather than a full full conventional denture as the minimum ideal for dental function.
You could easily argue though that if hip operations and other major orthopaedic procedures are standard on the nhs, why not dental implants.
The sad reality is the government has no desire to fund a comprehensive dental service and the blame game is put on the dentists for going private, when we don’t have much choice.
A few years ago I needed a partial denture. My dentist charged me for an NHS one and private one! I didnt understand why and when I questioned it I was told it was a process. It still doesnt make sense to me as the NHS denture is simply sitting in a drawer. Furthermore, 2 sets of impresseions were made. Could you explain why this might be please, as Im still wondering why?
Very informative video
Thank you 🙏🏽
Totally agree with you sir
Thanks Uday. Are you working in the system yourself?
Great job
Cheers
great video + I can understand your point, BUT what about the poor people !!!
I agree it’s a horrible situation for those that don’t have the financial means to get private dental care.
All I can suggest in such instances is for those to consider finance options or a loan ?
Lovely to see your holding people to ransom .
Amazing 😍
Thank you! What did you like most in this video?
I’m an nhs patient and had to have all my teeth removed due to surgery for cancer I’ve had dentures since February and now they are too big and my dentist said they can’t help I agree nhs dentists don’t get paid enough and the government needs to do something but I’m now unable to go out it’s embarrassing they don’t even stay if I glue them I so wish I could afford private it’s just not an option as for most people I assume I understand why nhs dentists are going private but it’s leaving us with no options
Hi there, I’m so sorry to hear this.
Aside from the obvious option of going private, there are nhs dental teaching hospitals that will take patients on who have had cancer and become edentulous.
These are typically very difficult denture cases due to the anatomy left and dryness of the mouth.
If you are in South Yorkshire, please approach Charles Clifford Dental hospital or get your dentist to refer you there.
Other dental institutions that might take you on nationally include Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham, Bristol, Newcastle, kings college london, Queen Mary’a London, Uclan and more.🙌🏾
I don't understand why they generally only give cancer patients implants on nhs when so many people would have a better outcome and quality of life than with dentures. @@yourdentistsays6572
Great job doctor
Thanks!
but what do you do if you cannot afford those charges
Damn right mate, nhs need to change its banding system
Thanks Mathew. Are you working in the system yourself?
I didn’t know this
Yes it’s quite heavy info
I now understand why its became impossible to get an nhs dentist appointment, I wouldn't want to take on nhs patients at them rates if I were a dentist. My confidence is destroyed from the state of my my teeth, I need at least 4 removing and partial dentures, ive had it in my head that this would cost me £1000's privately and its litterally held me back in the past few years due to lack of confidence. After seeing this video I've decided its not financially impossible to have a nice smile and healthy mouth. I plan to start the process next payday!
I heard that bupa is shutting 85 practices.
That’s great Tom! All the best with this and do let me know if you’d like to chat about your options with regards to dentures.
Best wishes
R
Indeed, Bupa has realised its essentially unviable to maintain these predominantly nhs clinics
@@yourdentistsays6572 it's really bad news for poorer people obviously. More will do their own methods at home instead of paying extortionate private dentists fees.if they can find a dentist that is.
@@yourdentistsays6572 will some bupa practices continue as private only.
The only thing is we haven't asked you to do it for us it was the NHS I think the way forward is why don't the NHS open their own clinics so they foot all the running costs and then give the dentist a fair wage say something on par with what a MP is paid maybe that would stop the exodus of dentists leaving the NHS and another query what happens if the dentist owns the practice as well and I know some of the dentists from my area do both NHS and private I agree you deserve a decent wage and you shouldn't be out of pocket but what happens to the ones who work and still can't afford expensive treatment maybe make all dentists work for the NHS like doctors do and then let them have private clinics for them who can afford it at least then their would be enough dentists for everyone
You should write to your MP, but I wouldn’t hold your breath.
The reality is the government has essentially made up its mind about nhs dentistry. It’s on its last legs and I don’t see the situation improving. We will eventually just have a core nhs dental service stripped down to just provide pain relief and simple extractions; nothing more, nothing less.
more videos keep it up
Thanks! Just posted part 4 in this series 🙌🏾
Good to see a young switched on colleague
Thanks buddy
Not everyone wins doc... Privately you have to pay a house deposit.
It depends where you go and if you opt for a finance or maintenance plan
Why only some dental treatment is offered on NHS?
Somebody I know was offered dentures as an NHS option however to same dentist suggested a private road with teeth implants. When I asked why implants can not be provided on NHS, only privately. I was told the NHS does not do that without further explanation.
After paying 1200 tax/month I would expect to find an NHS Clinique but... Nope. Everyone goes private
What's the reason behind the private £1500 charge for upper & lower partial dentures when you mentioned the lab fee to make them is £250?
That’s a good question. So you aren’t just paying for the lab fees -which the dentist pays.
You are paying for the dentist, their years of expertise and training; both at under grad and post grad level.
You are paying for the practice-the reception team, the nurses, the practice manager, the dental chair, the dental software on computers, xrays, the electricity, gas, water…it’s very expensive to even run a practice and give a patient a decent journey; not forgetting the dentist own insurance and ongoing training costs.
With a denture there’s so much more to it- there’s multiple stages: the denture design, the primary impression, the secondary impression, the bite registration, the try in, the fit, the review(s)/adjustment/remake if required, which all adds up to a decent amount of surgery time.
There’s the denture materials to invest in, the digital scanning, the photography and a lot of thinking time that goes behind the scenes, such that for every treatment, whether it’s a denture, crowns or dental implants, we have to charge appropriately for this.
The lab fee for these was actually £398, but it was a higher end lab and for simplicity of the video, I kept it low at £250.
Hope that helps lol.
@@yourdentistsays6572 That is quite the defensive answer if you don't mind me saying. Even based on the higher lab fees, a 100% markup would be £800 which is an awful lot for a person to pay, nevermind all the other charges. £1500 is borderline greedy and this is why I think so many people are put off private. But let me not take away from the overall theme of your videos, which is an incredibly useful insight into how unsustainable/unviable the NHS dentistry system is right now. A big thanks for putting yourself out there and taking the time to make these!
@@frankfnhallukhall4520 I agree, perhaps it is.
But you have to understand, like many professions, there are overheads to pay.
When you call your plumber or electrician for a break down, the component to replace the damage/lab bill might be very small, but you pay significantly more for the labour and dentistry is on another level in terms of overheads.
I agree though, there is a need for more cost effective private treatments and often we will provide finance plans to enable costs to be spread over a longer period.
I do believe with in house milling using digital dentistry, whereby dentists fabricate their own work in house, this will come down in time, but the milling machines are very expensive and you’d need to do a large volume for this to be cost effective atm.
Anyhow, I’m glad you can appreciate how unsustainable nhs dentistry is and I thank you for your comments.
Please do share with friends/family and anyone you feel may benefit from them.🙌🏾
@@frankfnhallukhall4520 If he actually wants to pay his workers a better wage and that he needs to cover overhead (which has nothing to do with the NHS banding system) if he isn't paid enough by NHS services there is literally nothing left but to charge more. If you can't afford the building you work in there is literally NO way to get a dentist in the first place. What the NHS has set out to do with their banding situation is fail to adapt to market costs and the related costs of training to become a dentist in the first place.
I dont think you are getting it 🤯 its got absolutely everything to do with the banding system. Would you work all week if you knew you would only get paid for a friday?
Is it correct that the NHS don't cover root canal & a crown on a tooth that's already had both treatments? I understand it's more complex work but can an NHS dentist refuse treatment like this on the NHS? I've looked online but I can't find an answer to the question. thanks.
Hi Mike, this would fall into the realm of complex dentistry that wouldn’t typically be in the realm of an average NHS dentist in terms of their clinical competency ie something they do day in/day out or to a predictable standard.
A primary root canal (root canal done for the first time) is hard enough as a technical procedure and badly remunerated on the nhs as it is….(see my band 2 video).
A secondary root canal (done when a primary one fails) through an old crown; which now means there is no normal anatomy would normally be expected to be done by a specialist in private practice with a microscope and fancy kit and you would expect to pay £850 to £1000 for the re rct and £500-1000 for the new crown (if you were feeling tight, you might be able to go back to your nhs dentist for the new crown as a band 3, but if you are going to invest in a re rct, there’s an argument to go the full hog and get both done to the highest standard and mixing nhs/private work is not advised by the NHS).
Asking a general dentist on the nhs to do this all for far below minimum wage (in fact they’d be paying for it out of their own pocket) and still be liable when it fails because its very technically difficult, is frankly dental suicide and hence why you’d struggle to get a dentist to do this on the nhs…
The smallest chance might be in a dental hospital if you had acancer, were on iv bisphosphonates or a medical condition; meaning the tooth couldn’t be removed easily and it was of strategic importance ie a front tooth, but the hoops to be accepted into an nhs teaching hospital would be numerous; alongside the wait, with no guarantee of being taken on…
Sooo, in summary lol, yes there’s the faintest possibility, but really it’s a standard private job and far beyond the basic remit of nhs dentistry and your cheap/cheerful option would be removal of the tooth if that is out of your budget.
Hope that helps.
Please share the channel with friends and colleagues 🙌🏾
Thank you that's a really helpful reply. I understand from your videos the massive limitations from the NHS funding system for dentists. It's just very frustrating that the NHS (by this I mean the government that funds it) can't help the working poor. I am a civil servant of 20 years & the treatment plan offered on a private basis is almost £1k which will completely wipe out my savings. It looks like a tooth extraction for me ☹️.
@@mikeredham whereabouts are you from? Charles Clifford hospital in sheffield is an option if a student registers u
@@jiyan2220 thanks. I got sorted in the end. My dentist did one reroot canal treatment & his student did the other plus I had 2 crowns. In total it cost me just under £1,000 in total.
@@mikeredham I’m glad it’s sorted
Yes i can tell my NHS dentist is rushed. That's why i have ill fitting dentures.
Denture making is a true art form. It takes plenty of patience, lots of expensive materials and a highly skilled technician and dentist to get an aesthetically and functionally pleasing outcome.
Sadly, on the nhs, all these commodities are very limited. The nhs dentist won’t have access to the best materials or lab and won’t have sufficient time either.
Rip of dentists money money money they have excuses for everything.
Sorry you feel this way buddy! Is this off the back of nhs or private treatment?
I dropped my dentures and broke them. Now I cant find an NHS dentist and the private ones want £900 for an upper denture palette. Never mind the politics, all I see is that I'm fucked for treatment. Reasonable? If you call lack of access to treatment reasonable then yes, it's all fucking hunky dory.
Sorry to hear of your predicament. If it’s a clear split in half, they should be repairable at a fraction of that cost? Worth looking into if you’ve still got the pieces.
@@yourdentistsays6572 If a repair is the only option I have in 2023 then I would say the state of dentistry in the UK is egregious. £900 for a few ounces of epoxy resin is taking the piss. Dentists should be ashamed of themselves. Only in rip off Britain.
@@zibbezabba2491 everything costs sadly and lots of people need to be paid along the way.
For the dentures, there’s the dentist time and fee, the materials used, the nurse, reception and wider team, the owners of the clinic’s margins, the dental lab technicians fees to fabricate the dentures, the lab owners fees to pay the Technican…you can hopefully see that £900 is paying for several peoples livelihoods.
By all means look at other dentists and finance plans, but that’s quite a reasonable fee and if they meet your aesthetic and functional goals, probably excellent value for money in the long run.
Best of luck anyhow!
Can i confirm if the materials are differnt for goinf private? Ive been signed of sick and struggle on universal credit. (Payment plan not an option) However i know i need root canal, fillings and tooth extraxtion. I will need a few back teeth replacing with fake ones but id want to get decent ones.
Are you able to ask for a more experienced dentist? (One who usually works privately) and trains the newly qualified dentists/students?
Thank you so much for any help 🙏
NHS dentistry uses poorer quality materials and there’s not enough time for the staff to do a good job
Hi there, by logic, if the nhs fees are so low and time so limited, then of course you will find limitations in the treatment you receive.
You will have to do your own research on who treats you, but I think you may well struggle in your specific request.