An exclusive prompt from Middle Ground: Black Christians vs Black Atheists is now up on our Patreon👉 “The Black Church is better than the White Church” www.patreon.com/jubileemedia
@Jubliee If you are sitting on that stage as anything but a BLACK AMERICAN speaking about how you THINK the Black Church represent our people, you're cosplaying and committing identity theft that Black Americans are not going for anymore. If you're Caribbean or African, your culture and how this topic represents you and your family dynamics is the ONLY experience you can speak too!
which arabic countries allow the bible to be preached? like Saudi Arabia doesn't allow crosses, doesn't allow bibles to be brought in to be given to anyone, doesn't allow the building of "churches"
@@justanobody0 its arab not arabic. Arabic is the language, and Arab describes the people. There are plenty of practicing Christians and churches all across the middle east and north africa . There are also 1.8 billion muslims across the world, Saudi Arabia makes up a fraction of that figure; they do not, nor can they, represent all arab nations.
@@sammy-er7on "Saudi Arabia makes up a fraction of that figure; they do not, nor can they, represent all arab nations." Where do certain people pray towards? is it Saudi Arabia or some other country there is only one country they say they have to travel to, and they say it's better to do it more than once They say they have to pray only in the language that came from Saudi Arabia
I feel like this episode had a lot more educated people than the average Jubilee episode. Like it actually felt like a discussion where people who were semi-experts in their particular subjects spoke.
Black Christians vs Black Muslims would be interesting, especially considering the history of the Civil Rights Movement and the leaders, many of whom were either devout Christians or Muslims
Cause now, we supposed to validate everything and question nothing. All for the sake of equality when we need to learn as humankind that what we really need is equity.
@KyleafHolland I agree thay we do need to Validate everything. We cant just take it face value and do our due diligence in research and asking questions. While it can be limited, it is better than assuming the answer is correct without fact checking.
@@bozardo101 For sure. That would eliminate the flamboyancy that’s within a lot of the movements,media, and even the types of “influencers” we have. We just take titles and leave it at that oftentimes when we should acknowledge and appreciate differences, within reasoning. Even with opinions, I would like to think there’s nothing wrong with having your own opinions even if disagreed upon so long as thorough research and consideration of an alternative perspectives is presented too.
@@GraceCairns-v4dthank you, Religion is literally the process of saying “no proof or evidence?? I don’t care i believe what i want”. which is the most anti-science mindset one could ever have
Well, it's because Christian religion is deeply ingrained in American black culture. It's been used as a way to control, not just giving a sense of community. It still affects the black community negatively even today.
Yes he constantly allowed them to interrupt when they were the ones initially answering the questions only to shush the Christians to “let them finish” Allow the person who was speaking first to finish! They all have a chance to give their insight.
I was born and raised Jewish, but am more agnostic atheist these days. I never got offended or mad when someone would say "merry christmas" or "bless you" or something like that. To this day, I simply say "thanks, you too!" Why? Because I am happy that a stranger took time out of their day to say something nice to me. I never understood why people get offended by such things.
Plus, the majority of the people around your vicinity are Christians, so it is very normal for people to assume that you are a Christian, I'm also an agnostic atheist and I say "walahi"....it's just what I grew up around
It can be rude to assume another person's religious outlook. And sometimes a non-religious person is highly aware of the forceful nature of religion due to trauma. Despite claims that religion is peaceful, many places in the world suffer from religious dogma, and non-adherence resulting in corporal punishment. As an ex-Muslim, being told things like "Ramadaan kareem" reminds me of the fact that parents can beat their children for not fasting or being given a kiss on the cheeks after someone came from prayer reminds me of how I was beat up by my father for not making solaah because the Quran told my parents to do so. I saw many Muslim friends badly beat up by a father who took things too far. Mine did the same. Every religion has it's problems like this - and while most atheists have very rational reasons for exiting the religion, some remain scarred. Some atheists are passionate about a world where we don't assume that everyone simply thinks like us, a world where we're curious about the other person. Objectivity and individuality will always be squashed with a mindset where a religious person walks down the street, sees someone who looks like them and so feels camaraderie in their assumption that they're of the same faith. Religion is often psychologically damaging to many people - no doubt, it offers peace to many as well. But these are important discussions that are being sacrificed due to the skewed mindset on part of the religious person and prioritizing niceties on part of the atheist. If many atheists can show interest and respect for who the next person is and what their views are, then what stops them from showing the same for us?
I’m black and atheist, I don’t agree with that Amen argument. I grew up religious, and it’s just the way I and others talk. I don’t think amen is pushing religion at all
@@wynnk88by calling out one group and not the other automatically implies one is better than the other, this statement highlights the bias and it’s clear whoever wrote the comment is Christian.
should’ve chose a better moderator for this one. this guy was so rude to let those guys cut off the lady speaking but when she was gonna speak he was like “let him finish”
Dude in the yellow is not emotionally intelligent enough to respect other people’s views without calling them out. Its all objective. He wanted to argue.
@@takima504how is arguing with someone’s point and having a different opinion and expressing ur opinion immature? should he have just been quiet. that defeats the whole purpose of this video😭🙏
@@minafanboy yes and no, if he would have been respectful and honorable I feel like I would of taken his word a lot better but he being an aithiest already puts him on thin ice
As a black atheist, i appreciate the Christian talking points and positions in this exchange. Their overall world view aligns with mine even if we dont align theologically. I most specifically appreciated Roxi and her respectful but strong pushback
Christian here! (but im white o.0) & that’s pretty cool, it’s really nice to see an atheist not shaming Christians for being Christian because I unfortunately see so much of that online and they give people like you a bad rep. U seem like a respectable person and I, well, respect you for that. Great comment!
@@clckcyou’ll literally find any subset of a culture on the internet shaming the other side…that’s nothing specific to atheists. Plenty of Christians online doing the same thing to atheists. If you go out of your way and speak to an educated atheist in person I’m absolutely positive you’ll find they are respectful and aren’t trying to deconstruct your beliefs or shame your worldview.
Regardless of religion when it comes to armed security I got my people. I've marched and instructed people on how to build rifles, how to choose body armor, laws that pertain to conceal carry in our state. I've provided security at the Juneteenth event that was held a few years ago in our town. They christian, I'm pagan, either way I got you. Racists only see black they don't care if you're atheist or gay or anything else.
Yea there aren't a lot of pastors like him amd sadly black pastors with his views are lookd down on in most black churches it's seems like. He's very open minded and logical as well.
I'm an atheist but I'm completely with the amen woman. If she says "amen" to me, I don't have to take that personally. I know that's her thing and she's welcome to it. If I choose to go on a big mental sleigh ride about her saying that, she's not responsible for it. And there's something deeply illiberal about holding someone responsible for the offence or contortions they go through simply at hearing a word that was not meant negatively or even particularly religiously. You don't owe everyone perfect peace of mind at the expense of your freedom to say something that you don't mean seriously.
As a Christian, if someone sneezes and I don't say, "bless you," I feel like I'm not being respectful to that person. I'm also from the South and friends who are both religious and non religious say "bless you" when others sneeze. It's not necessarily viewed as a religious term, but simply a kind way to give someone well wishes because sneezes aren't pleasant 😅
I think active listening during these kind of panels is essential, instead of solely waiting on your time to respond. Tyler definitely hijacked this debate. The purpose of the moderator is to mitigate someone doing what Tyler did.
@@chelseashamim9148 Slavery has been going on for centuries. What the bible is referring to is the slavery pre-Americas and is more like indentured servitude. You have to remember, the bible was not originally in english and was translated by people who wanted to use it for their gain
The Catholic girl in the multi colored shirt touched on a fact I was going to make. Christianity has roots in Africa years before Europeans went there. Kudos to her.
It was a minority. Christianity was introduced to black people mainly through the Transatlantic slave trade. And since then it has been used to control and manipulate black people for the worst
@@kyiasimone1869most regions start in one place then spread. They took the gospel and spread it. That comment was to debunk that Christianity is not a white mans religion
It went to Ethiopia in the 4th century from the Middle East. Not to West Africa, where Black Americans originate. West Africa was brought Christianity by European missionaries in the 1800s.
@@ruffey1748Christianity has been present in Africa since antiquity either way. Sudan was also a predominantly Christian from the 6th century to the 1500s. Also, Christianity was present in Angola (Kongo Empire) long before the 1800s mate. And some of the earliest enslaved Africans that were brought to the 13 colonies were already Christians from that region. For example, Jemmy Cato.
Saying that the black church hasn’t shaped black culture is arguing for the sake of arguing. It’s literally a fact, the next question came up and we’re instantly referencing the black church again.
Agreed. You don't choose the past, you choose the future. It's like saying America was not built on the back of slavery. Or that eugenics didn't have a huge influence on western culture.
That does take away from black people who have never been Christian either following their own cultural spiritual practices , Rastafarian or Islamic practices
@@tanvi7532 it doesn’t. Churches were places to gather and communicate. Without them we wouldn’t be where we are today as a culture. It’s a fact. I don’t practice religion, it’d be insane for me as a black American to say it hasn’t shaped our culture.
The moderator did a horrible job. Tyler consistently interrupted others but when they tried to explain their point, he would say let him finish. Clearly someones bias
@@kdooley41 Who said anything was wrong with the points he made? He spoke over everyone and his manor was unpleasant. The O/P commented on how the moderator was bias and allowed this but made everyone else wait til he was finished to respond, it was not equitable. Has nothing to do with his points.
*Roxie was a breath of fresh air.* *When she brought up the Ancient Ethiopian Tewahedo Christian community, I was so impressed! Everyone forgets about them and their rich history and indigenous culture!*
Very disrespectful, at least have respect for someone religion..but people only do this when it comes to Christian, if they where going against Muslims it would have been more respect, this just proves that atheist are only hurt Christians
Tyler isn't atheist. He's super Pro Black. Please get REAL black atheists on the platform who won't just talk about Pro Black Issues. Let them talk of why they believe there's nobody above.
Moderator is there push the conversation and keep things on track. If a mod notices certain points worth talking about, you’d create challenging questions for other to chime in on.
“Being a black woman predates biblical figures.” No it doesn’t. He just contradicted himself because he literally said that the inception of “blackness” as an identity happened 400 years ago when we were piled together in ships, when identity and culture was stripped and we now we’re just one; black. Which leads me to believe that there was identity before our enslavement that transcended the color of our skin. As an African woman it’s so interesting how Americans idolize blackness. In one sense I get it, but thinking about how back home we don’t refer to each other as black, but instead our country of origin or tribe? This is a very American conversation for sure. I’d love to see African Christians versus African American atheists.
"Black" American is essentially its own ethnicity. There is a different culture, different DNA, and different experience. It is not idolized, but being the minority in a country founded on your ancestors slavery does make race stay on the front and center. Segregation was not long ago and we are not far removed from slavery. So Black americans are still dealing with the aftermath.
@@rockswapna bro, not going to lie to you that is just victim talk, every race was enslaved black, white, indian, chinese, we just happened to be the last ones that was enslaved the last and plus there was african/black slave owners too, and this whole slavery sob story is only prevelant in America, its not a big issue in the Caribbean, Africa nor anywhere else in the world everyone has moved on.
@@shurandygerard8183it’s not “victim talk” when you are presenting fact. The existence of slavery amongst other cultures does not remove the fact that slavery occurred in American, and that experience was unique in comparison to the others. There are different forms of slavery or ”servitude,” even dating prior to the European invasion of Africa, which were not violent, inhumane, or racialized. And if you don’t think Caribbean and African countries are still feeling the impact of colonization, you are mistaken. Just last year African leaders came together and spoke about the historical injustices that are still impacting them…They are strategizing to regain control of their resources and position themselves to be more effective within and outside of their borders.
Love your response!!! Very true. I also find it interesting that Black Americans tend to bash Latinos who are very well connected to their African roots, more-so than themselves. It's a love/hate relationship black Americans have for Latinos, and I hate to see it.
Ethiopia is the second-oldest Christian country in the world. Armenia is the first. Africa was one of the first places Christianity flourished. And Roxy made some great points about individuality and identity.
Northeast Africa has always been a stronghold of Christianity until relatively recently. The Nubians followed the same form of Christianity as Ethiopia and were able to defeat the first Caliphate, the Rashidun Caliphate, twice in war until it broke from instability after nearly 1,000 years.
She was on point! She most def is anointed! I wish they had picked more people like her on the Christian side. I feel like they didn’t chose enough educated Christians for this one
Tyler own words betrayed him throughout the entire conversation. He kept saying he feel we should put our race on the same level or above our faith and beliefs but then when confronted with the fact that we are more than our race, he countered that With he doesn’t understand why people think he’s racist and hes not promoting black supremacy when that is exactly what black supremacy is. The word supremacy comes from the word “supreme” meaning greater than or above everything else. Kudos to the black Christian’s. They represented the faith very well.
Yes Because he believes that race should function at the same level or a higher level than religion specifically Christianity. Since religion is at the highest level do we call it "religion supremacy"? (In some places it's called law but I digress) No so why are u calling it "black supremacy" ? Secondly tyler said that phrase in the community context he doesn't mean that individually, he wants people(black people) to step up and do more for the community they're apart of so we can continue to set an example while building a legacy for generations to come. But to start that black people need to realize they are more than Christians.
Ole girl with the short blonde hair was clearly the educated in the room. Didn’t argue just listened and stated facts. Dude with Afro spiritual beliefs wasn’t an atheist and was super arrogant
Sister with the dreads was very educated herself. She had to correct the short blond hair woman about the history of Christianity in the black community. Honestly, they all came off very educated.
really liked Roxy in this episode. She articulated her points fairly and well. When she was asked by Tyler about "how blackness came about" She stood her ground. That wasn't even the prompt. Tyler was way out of the line of questioning. Sometimes we need to sit and listen. Be slow to speak
Yes, I feel as though Tyler was really getting away from the real essence and purpose of the conversation and really made it difficult for others to express their thoughts in this conversation
I did appreciate it, though he could have given a simpler explanation of why. It's simply the fact that her blackness is the first thing people will see when she walks into a room. It's human nature to label someone, and frankly, most people will label a black woman as loud and aggressive. They don't care if she gardens, paints, or sells houses. The only thing they see until she speaks is that she is a black woman.
@@aprilotero7448 black feminism does not say that. black feminism recognises the unique and intersectional experiences that black women face because of their race and sex/gender. that idea of putting blackness over being a woman is all him.
I used to see her on Matt Dilahunty's show years ago. She makes us black atheist women proud :) I hope one day she realizes shes making an impact just like the historical black atheists she mentioned at the beginning. Mandia's org is called "BlackNonBelievers".
@@Nnwhenshs You're so welcome! Mandisa mentioned a few historical black atheist pioneers at the beginning of this video and I hope she knows she has contributed in the same way. I think her org is called "BlackNonBelievers". Enjoy :)
@@Nnwhenshs You're so welcome! Mandisa mentioned atheist pioneers at the beginning of the video and I hope she realizes shes had the same impact on Black atheists. Her org is "BlackNonBelievers".
Tyler contradicted himself when he disagreed with Roxy when she pointed out that Tyler is treating black people as a monolith. He responds by saying all black people should put blackness above everything else…Sir that is literally what a monolith is. You are literally saying the black community should operate as a monolith by us all choosing to put blackness above everything else.
The societal expectation placed upon individuals of Black heritage, suggesting a perceived responsibility to serve as representatives or ambassadors for the entire Black community. This expectation appears rooted in the reductionist view held by some individuals, wherein one's racial identity becomes the primary lens through which they are perceived and evaluated. In essence tho what Tyler is trying to articulate was fostering unity and collective action within the Black community holds immense potential for addressing systemic issues and achieving economic empowerment. By leveraging collective resources and mobilizing community efforts, opportunities emerge to establish and support Black-owned businesses, create educational initiatives focused on entrepreneurship and financial literacy, and empower future generations through quality education that fosters not just survival, but thriving
That's not what a monolith is. A monolith is saying they're all the same. Not that we should use our resources to feed, house, and educate Black people. He didn't even say a specific type of Black people. What are you talking about?
I think what he meant is that we need to be doing more…frfr and since you can really only focus on one thing at a time keep religion 👍🏽because everyone has their vice, their comforts nd stuff but we really do need institutions…we’ve kept our legacy’s through word of mouth,through ideas… long enough🤷🏽♀️
The hugs at the end looked very genuine❤. To have a conversation with the ability to “agree to disagree” and actually mean it without animosity is what we need more of💯
That exchange between Tyler and Roxy irritated me. Who is Tyler to tell ANY black person what they should and shouldn't prioritize when it comes to blackness? He's NOT the authority and people like him are a reason why I have a HUGE issue with these so-called "pro-blacks". You don't get to police other people's blackness based on what YOU believe "blackness" is. Like she said, she's just as black as he is, and no amount of rhetoric is going to change that.
The societal expectation placed upon individuals of Black heritage, suggesting a perceived responsibility to serve as representatives or ambassadors for the entire Black community. This expectation appears rooted in the reductionist view held by some individuals, wherein one's racial identity becomes the primary lens through which they are perceived and evaluated. In essence tho what Tyler is trying to articulate was fostering unity and collective action within the Black community holds immense potential for addressing systemic issues and achieving economic empowerment. By leveraging collective resources and mobilizing community efforts, opportunities emerge to establish and support Black-owned businesses, create educational initiatives focused on entrepreneurship and financial literacy, and empower future generations through quality education that fosters not just survival, but thriving
its the most annoying part of these pro-black discussions, feels like someone is always trying to check your card. Or one-up your "blackness" while also saying the concept of blackness is an evil racist creation. Just obnoxious.
He referenced the development of Christianity in Africa during a discussion between black Christians and atheists. Did he shift the conversation or do you just not like what he said?😂
Ummm, did you watch the whole interview?? He most DEFINITELY kept with the tone of the topic and THEN SOME. For Black Americans… you can not talk about Christianity, without discussing our history and culture in America. It goes hand in hand. PERIOD.
@@Random-sk6hm The mod probably gave him some chance to repeatedly explained his stance because other panelists seemed unwilling to accept his opinion and keep on missing his point and being defensive for whatever reason (at least that's how I see it)
It was how everybody calmly delivered their points without it being chaotic. Kudos to the sound points each gave. This is how a debate is supposed to be, listening to respond
Listening to respond is a poor listening technique and is how aggression and stalemates are generated. Listening to understand is how schemas diverge, creativity is fostered, and perspectives are broadened.
I’ve noticed a lot of ppl are against Christianity because of personal experiences NOT the actual religion . They have issues with “the people of the church” and that needs to be clarified.
@@nataliaorocio3871no…it says a lot about PEOPLE. Bc the Bible goes against every kind of evil. Which is why the lady you responded to says that people have a problem with Christians themselves NOT Christianity. Bc Christian’s are the representatives of Christianity.
The fact they all came together respectfully in the end was beautiful and that's what it's about. I'm glad to see them all together in spite their differences.
Being mad that somebody says amen when they talk is wild. Do we really want a society that looks down on individuality for the sake of keeping the peace?
@@newyorka7 I see you are also quick to talk, slow to listen. Historical facts are great, with proper context and the correct conversation. However Tyler derailed every conversation and question by trying to argue points that weren’t being discussed. He flatly ignored the premises of the questions in favor of espousing “facts” that no one was there for. And at every chance he got, he was dismissive of other “black” experiences that didn’t fit his narratives. Tyler was loud, possibly hurt, and flatly disrespectful.
@@christopherdavis1012 dude it honestly just sounds like you disagree with tyler’s facts and are creating your own false narrative as to how what he was saying didn’t fit into the questions when they fit perfectly. He literally said he’s not there to invalidate anyone’s blackness so how was he dismissive of anyone’s black experience? He never cut anybody off or claimed there was a specific way to be black. The fact that you claim no one was there for the facts he presented shows your bias towards him. It really just seems like his facts go against your world view so you’re trying to paint him out as the bad guy when not only did he open up great dialect between him and the Christian’s, but mandisa and Darius were also clearly on the same accord as him. And are we watching the same video? Nowhere in this was he loud, or disrespectful. This was quite literally possibly the most respectful dialogue to occur on one of these types of videos.
The "upside-down" cross is actually incredibly Catholic. Peter refused to be martyred in the same way as Christ because he felt unworthy. He asked to be placed upside-down on the crucifix.
You can tell by Tyler’s body language that he is closed to everyone else ideals but his own. You can tell he is listening to respond not to receive information and see another point of view. He’s very immature
@@BlackPeerReviewTylerBurnsYou can have a quick witted response to what everyone is saying but please try to receive the gist of what many viewers have been able to see here from watching you. Many responses are genuine and although you don't have to agree I sincerely hope you understand that usually if various people see some of these negative attributes in you that there might be a little something to what they are saying. You were dismissive of beliefs and opinions opposite of your own.
@@TheMariemarie16from my interpretation he was very respectful. Only when he was accused of practicing black supremacy for discussing blackness is when I’d say he was “dismissive”. The entire discussion was about how blackness shaped religion, and his entire basis was instilling black communities with their own resources and not relying on external beliefs or practices.
This is literally not making her qualify her blackness. He did not imply anything despite her not knowing her black history. It was a question she couldn't answer and he moved on
He was actually pretty broad with questioning her . She felt more triggered of proving herself but he didnt ask that from her. He was getting a scope of where she stands
He completely dismissed a large group of several ethnicities thinking bronze skin and wooly hair is ONLY black people…the fact he named athletes and not intellectuals also says a lot about where his mind set is.
He never said black ppl are the only ones that have bronze skin and wooly hair. And if he were to name intellectuals majority of them probably wouldn’t have known them. Why is it problematic to use examples that quite literally everyone knows whether they’re not sports or not?
@@sarahlarock9885 Do u know how hard it is to moderate these types of questions and debates? Especially with a group of 8 ppl, so yea he did a fair job
He’s talking about utilizing the church’s power in the black community and the money it collects from black people to push for black progression politically. Not that we need more Religious based laws.
we fight not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places Ephesians 6:12
I'm so glad the Liberian finally spoke up at the end. Because as a Nigerian-American I felt like our experiences and train of thought is being overlooked
Very true. I've noticed many black westerners, both American and European, seem to think that just because Africans are also black, that they have the same experiences and outlook on life.
She lost me a few times. She was well spoken and respectful, but I always disassociate when people speak in religious platitudes instead of reality. Or claim they have no fear of death 😂
@@Hwhdueu wow there turbo! Who said I wanted to control how she speaks and lives? I just commented on the effect her words had on me, as the internet is a place for sharing various perspectives and reactions. Try to be less reactive and defensive if you’re going to participate online.
Roxy is speaking facts! Tyler keeps jumping around in the convo trying to take any dig where ever he can when she doesn’t want to answer his question. Like bruh that’s not the convo we are in
I disagree. Tyler was speaking historical facts. Where in this video has tyler taken a dig? It’s not that she didn’t want to answer his question, it’s bc of her outlook on life she never even thought to research it for herself to even have an idea on it. Tyler was bringing up valid points that should be conversed as black person especially in America.
@@newyorka7 bruh, Tyler was literally not even talking about the topic and was talking about a bunch of nonsense that didn't even revolve around the question. His mindset is full of victimization, just like what Roxy said that they have a victimized mentality because you see he also brought up his own personal experiences, and then based on that one situation that happened in his life he continued to judge Christians and believed that black people are being oppressed. Like dude it's 2024, there is no oppression unless you believe in it and victimize yourself.
@@livvy5984 What an ignorant take. Literally everything tyler said was spot on. You have to lack serious historical context if you believe nothing he was saying was on topic. Hence why mandisa and Darius were on the same accord as him. Please name one thing he said that was of a victim mindset. And you’re obviously just bitter about the historical truths he presented and are trying to demonish his argument bc he clearly said that he was a Christian during the time frame of his personal story. He said that was his first experience with micro aggressions within the religion, he never said that made him judge Christian’s and believe that black ppl were oppressed. And if you believe there’s no oppression in 2024 you have to painfully blind to everyday life. Have you never heard of Palestine? Congo? I mean Kanye west literally had his bank account shut down for his political views. Blacks are the only ppl who are told to forget their history yet we’re supposed to always remember everyone else’s. Miss me with that blissful ignorance!
@@livvy5984Yeah as a Christian, I agree with A LOT of what Tyler said. He doesn’t have a victim mentality, if you research the things he spoke about it’s actually STILL happening to black ppl today it’s just more covert and there’s data to prove it. Real estate is a means to creating generational wealth and a study found that black ppl have to “un-black” their homes in order to get fair market value on their homes when selling them. It’s also been found that black women (regardless of socioeconomic status) are dying at alarming rates during childbirth simply because its believe they can take more pain than other races and/or are believed to be lying about their pain. Nurses spoke on how it’s in their RECENT textbooks! However, I do believe that regardless of these issues (there are more I just didn’t list them) black ppl should use the resources their ancestors fought and died for to level up!
As a black atheist roxie was nailing it. The black guy who is a atheist was just very angry and wanted us to all think the same way while saying don't be same.
As a Christian I honestly feel people with conversational tactics like Tyler’s divide us. Going on the defense instead of asking questions and actually listening to someone’s answer without feeling the need to demolish their viewpoint should be the way you interact with
I think his viewpoints may have made some uncomfortable , and that’s usually the case when Christian’s cannot contribute anything to debates except their emotions. The point of a debate is to invalidate the other position , why was tiptoing needed?
Dude really messed up his own premise during the "Be pro-black in politics" argument because Black Christians, by and large, support the party who is pro-LGBTQ+, pro-gender equality, pro-abortion, and (comparatively) pro-Black. Where is there a big example of black people not voting in their own best interests b/c of religious beliefs?
@@AlliterativeAtheist if you look up the definition of a debate it’s a formal discussion between opposing viewpoints. It’s not to invalidate someone else’s views… I feel like that’s a huge issue with people like the guy in the video
I'm not a Christian, but I felt more supportive of them, because the "wokeness" of the others felt more authoritarian, totalitarian, and intolerant. Interesting conversation, though.
@@BlackPeerReviewTylerBurnsyes you did, the same way u felt ppl naturally assumed u were Christian’s for being black as frustrating is the same way u some her race to one political ideology. It’s clear you failed to understand ppl having a different opinion to your own.
Yo the dude in the yellow and black is not listening to comprehend. He’s straight up angry and wants to prove a point. Baby if you not open minded…why did you come?
@@TK-cg4ksit's also an objective truth that Christianity in Africa pre-dates Europeans on the continent and is actually older than many African traditional belief systems, but atheists with a bias tend to overlook that truth...
Bro, this is embarrassing. I thought I’d agree with the black atheists since I'm a black atheist, but these were hella annoying! Jubilee gotta stop letting a couple self-aggrandising Twittermouths dominate the discussion. Think you change the title to “Black enough or not”...
I think that the black community needs to start segregating into smaller groups. Some blacks are so toxic, and the more respectable blacks have nothing in common other than superficial features.
An exclusive prompt from Middle Ground: Black Christians vs Black Atheists is now up on our Patreon👉 “The Black Church is better than the White Church” www.patreon.com/jubileemedia
Why did you drop this on Easter?
Why not? @@Christian-ut2sp
Because it’s needed
@@user-kq2we1ex3h Agreed. I aspire to be like her.
@Jubliee
If you are sitting on that stage as anything but a BLACK AMERICAN speaking about how you THINK the Black Church represent our people, you're cosplaying and committing identity theft that Black Americans are not going for anymore. If you're Caribbean or African, your culture and how this topic represents you and your family dynamics is the ONLY experience you can speak too!
Arab Christian vs Arab Muslim. I wanna know what they think of each other.
which arabic countries allow the bible to be preached?
like Saudi Arabia doesn't allow crosses, doesn't allow bibles to be brought in to be given to anyone, doesn't allow the building of "churches"
@@justanobody0 its arab not arabic. Arabic is the language, and Arab describes the people. There are plenty of practicing Christians and churches all across the middle east and north africa . There are also 1.8 billion muslims across the world, Saudi Arabia makes up a fraction of that figure; they do not, nor can they, represent all arab nations.
Why not Arab Muslims vs Arab Atheists?
@@justanobody0 Arab muslim countries are intolerant to Christians and other religions, but want to force us to give them refuge at our expense.
@@sammy-er7on "Saudi Arabia makes up a fraction of that figure; they do not, nor can they, represent all arab nations."
Where do certain people pray towards?
is it Saudi Arabia or some other country
there is only one country they say they have to travel to, and they say it's better to do it more than once
They say they have to pray only in the language that came from Saudi Arabia
I feel like this episode had a lot more educated people than the average Jubilee episode. Like it actually felt like a discussion where people who were semi-experts in their particular subjects spoke.
And paradoxically it was the Christians who were more educated
thankfully! Jubilee be a mess sp much of the time
I totally agree. They all made their points in such a succinct, informed manner.
Hit different don’t it? All these panel shows need more of this.
1000% agree. Very refreshing to hear people of sound mind speaking and not tryna get their 15min of fame👏🏽👏🏽
Black Christians vs Black Muslims would be interesting, especially considering the history of the Civil Rights Movement and the leaders, many of whom were either devout Christians or Muslims
only if the Christians were educated on the crazy anti-blackness in Islam
Just christians vs muslims. No need to add black in there
@Jk-ow8ny I think there's alr an episode like that
That would be Very different as they've had Muslim and Christian convos of varying races in the past.
@@Jk-ow8nynope their is a need to add black their cuz black Christians and Muslims have a unique experience a lotta of us wanna hear and relate too
Watching this made me realize how hungry I am for intelligent and respectful discourse on challenging topics. It's hard to find these days.
I agree!! It is becoming LESS and LESS common sadly😢
Same!!
Cause now, we supposed to validate everything and question nothing. All for the sake of equality when we need to learn as humankind that what we really need is equity.
@KyleafHolland I agree thay we do need to Validate everything. We cant just take it face value and do our due diligence in research and asking questions.
While it can be limited, it is better than assuming the answer is correct without fact checking.
@@bozardo101 For sure. That would eliminate the flamboyancy that’s within a lot of the movements,media, and even the types of “influencers” we have. We just take titles and leave it at that oftentimes when we should acknowledge and appreciate differences, within reasoning. Even with opinions, I would like to think there’s nothing wrong with having your own opinions even if disagreed upon so long as thorough research and consideration of an alternative perspectives is presented too.
Getting mad at someone for saying Bless You when you sneeze is so dense.
at no point did she ‘get mad’, she just explained that saying that seems to presuppose a common belief in a deity.
or Amen. 😂😂😂 craziness.
no one was mad tho,
but she wasn't mad. You missed her point.
@@Pasta_Water She scoffed at the idea. She wasn't happy about it either and completely overlooked the counterargument which made a lot of sense.
I love watching black educated men and women have a discussion; this was beautiful
religion and education are contradictory
@@GraceCairns-v4dthank you, Religion is literally the process of saying “no proof or evidence?? I don’t care i believe what i want”. which is the most anti-science mindset one could ever have
Same. I loved this episode
@@ImWalkinHereGobbaGooyou can be religious and educated it's not that deep
@@GraceCairns-v4d ??
This seems to be more about Black Christians vs Pro Black with a hint of Atheism
Well, it's because Christian religion is deeply ingrained in American black culture. It's been used as a way to control, not just giving a sense of community. It still affects the black community negatively even today.
I sort of think that American Christianity is anti-Black.... (not the people in the video, but in general)
Pro Black and hint of Afro-Spiritual Atheism*
Agreed
Agreed
I didn’t love how the Black Christians weren’t able to finish some of their points without being interrupted. Com’on moderator.
You think the enemy was going to let that happen. The Christian panelist represented Christ well. Satan always brings confusion in some form.
@@leerob7738❤❤ amen
Yes he constantly allowed them to interrupt when they were the ones initially answering the questions only to shush the Christians to “let them finish” Allow the person who was speaking first to finish! They all have a chance to give their insight.
@@leerob7738 They are the enemy.
The exact comment u was looking for! The moderator was so partial. Always shushing d Christians …..y tho???
Educated black men and women having an educated conversation is so refreshing. Thank you for this content!
then read Thomas Sowell.
This isn’t a rare occurrence ! 🙄
I wish it was a more efficient conversation...this one disappointed in sooo many ways.
@@thebestofallworlds187People aren’t interested in losing brain cells.
@DominiqueSpeaks I was thinking the same. All intellectuals👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I’m a black atheist and I cannot imagine actually being offended if someone says amen
She wasn’t offended she was making a point
Getting mad at someone for saying "I'm a Marxist" is so dense.
Literally. It’s literal lingo…thts it.
Cause they have a demon that's why
Btw be spiritual learn about your melanin and how as black people we are beings of the sun,
I was born and raised Jewish, but am more agnostic atheist these days. I never got offended or mad when someone would say "merry christmas" or "bless you" or something like that. To this day, I simply say "thanks, you too!" Why? Because I am happy that a stranger took time out of their day to say something nice to me. I never understood why people get offended by such things.
*That's because you never had your ENTIRE CULTURE/HERITAGE STOLEN from you.*
Plus, the majority of the people around your vicinity are Christians, so it is very normal for people to assume that you are a Christian, I'm also an agnostic atheist and I say "walahi"....it's just what I grew up around
I wonder why people are agnostic atheists
Not harsh, but open minded!..
It can be rude to assume another person's religious outlook. And sometimes a non-religious person is highly aware of the forceful nature of religion due to trauma.
Despite claims that religion is peaceful, many places in the world suffer from religious dogma, and non-adherence resulting in corporal punishment. As an ex-Muslim, being told things like "Ramadaan kareem" reminds me of the fact that parents can beat their children for not fasting or being given a kiss on the cheeks after someone came from prayer reminds me of how I was beat up by my father for not making solaah because the Quran told my parents to do so. I saw many Muslim friends badly beat up by a father who took things too far. Mine did the same. Every religion has it's problems like this - and while most atheists have very rational reasons for exiting the religion, some remain scarred.
Some atheists are passionate about a world where we don't assume that everyone simply thinks like us, a world where we're curious about the other person. Objectivity and individuality will always be squashed with a mindset where a religious person walks down the street, sees someone who looks like them and so feels camaraderie in their assumption that they're of the same faith.
Religion is often psychologically damaging to many people - no doubt, it offers peace to many as well. But these are important discussions that are being sacrificed due to the skewed mindset on part of the religious person and prioritizing niceties on part of the atheist. If many atheists can show interest and respect for who the next person is and what their views are, then what stops them from showing the same for us?
His argument is color based. Nothing about the church, nothing about beliefs, STRICTLY BLACK! It’s more than that.
You COMPLETELY missed the point smh
I’m black and atheist, I don’t agree with that Amen argument. I grew up religious, and it’s just the way I and others talk. I don’t think amen is pushing religion at all
As an atheist, I say bless you when someone sneezes. It’s not that deep to me 🤷🏾♀️
@@ajh.4131 exactly
So would you be ok with neo na because it´s just the way they talk?
@@PROVOCATEURSKno I obviously would not.
Agreed, it’s not that deep, I love when ppl of other religions address me with theirs as well
i am very proud of how the Black Christian panel represented themselves and also the level of grace they had during the conversation. they did great
They both stated their points of view well.
I can see where your bias lies
@@StzaCrizzack what do you mean by that?
@@StzaCrizzackthey just stated how they’re proud of the panel, didn’t say one was greater than the other
@@wynnk88by calling out one group and not the other automatically implies one is better than the other, this statement highlights the bias and it’s clear whoever wrote the comment is Christian.
should’ve chose a better moderator for this one. this guy was so rude to let those guys cut off the lady speaking but when she was gonna speak he was like “let him finish”
Respect gen, harder than you think
Easter worshippers get enough platform, let someone else "spread their belief"
Disagree. Gen is a great moderator. The edit is probably influencing the way you're seeing things. Not the moderator's fault.
@@Whuesoappreciate that
@@hermanbrachey7653 whose an easter worshipper?? huh
Dude in the yellow is not emotionally intelligent enough to respect other people’s views without calling them out. Its all objective. He wanted to argue.
i didn't see your point in the video
@@sooskes1525 once you grow in age you will....it was cringe
@@takima504how is arguing with someone’s point and having a different opinion and expressing ur opinion immature? should he have just been quiet. that defeats the whole purpose of this video😭🙏
@@minafanboy yes and no, if he would have been respectful and honorable I feel like I would of taken his word a lot better but he being an aithiest already puts him on thin ice
Thank you !!!
She did not duck and dodge she said its not her expertise. I found that responsible.
Refusing to learn but speaking on a situation or subject is ducking & pure ignorance tho 😕
Did she say she didnt wanna learn?
She listened to the guy speaking no?
I agree. There are way too many people these days who try and speak on stuff they know nothing about.
@@motorc1tye206 you want her to talk about stuff she doesn’t know huhh… 😕 she even let fam cook before carrying on
I know....she just told him that was not her expertise
As a black atheist, i appreciate the Christian talking points and positions in this exchange. Their overall world view aligns with mine even if we dont align theologically. I most specifically appreciated Roxi and her respectful but strong pushback
Christian here! (but im white o.0) & that’s pretty cool, it’s really nice to see an atheist not shaming Christians for being Christian because I unfortunately see so much of that online and they give people like you a bad rep. U seem like a respectable person and I, well, respect you for that. Great comment!
@@clckcyou’ll literally find any subset of a culture on the internet shaming the other side…that’s nothing specific to atheists. Plenty of Christians online doing the same thing to atheists. If you go out of your way and speak to an educated atheist in person I’m absolutely positive you’ll find they are respectful and aren’t trying to deconstruct your beliefs or shame your worldview.
@@clckc well, as I always say: every village has its idiots.
Regardless of religion when it comes to armed security I got my people. I've marched and instructed people on how to build rifles, how to choose body armor, laws that pertain to conceal carry in our state. I've provided security at the Juneteenth event that was held a few years ago in our town. They christian, I'm pagan, either way I got you. Racists only see black they don't care if you're atheist or gay or anything else.
@@24KLuxury Agreed. I think we can agree it happens both ways.
The pastor was really level headed dealing with Tyler.
I was on his side for a large part of the video. He spoke his peace very eloquently and calmly
Yea there aren't a lot of pastors like him amd sadly black pastors with his views are lookd down on in most black churches it's seems like. He's very open minded and logical as well.
I'm an atheist but I'm completely with the amen woman. If she says "amen" to me, I don't have to take that personally. I know that's her thing and she's welcome to it. If I choose to go on a big mental sleigh ride about her saying that, she's not responsible for it. And there's something deeply illiberal about holding someone responsible for the offence or contortions they go through simply at hearing a word that was not meant negatively or even particularly religiously. You don't owe everyone perfect peace of mind at the expense of your freedom to say something that you don't mean seriously.
These cultural symbols do have a history or being culturally imposed
love this!
As a Christian, if someone sneezes and I don't say, "bless you," I feel like I'm not being respectful to that person. I'm also from the South and friends who are both religious and non religious say "bless you" when others sneeze. It's not necessarily viewed as a religious term, but simply a kind way to give someone well wishes because sneezes aren't pleasant 😅
Black Christians vs Hebrew Israelites next please. I would definitely get my popcorn out for that one if ykyk
Oh that would be spicy 😆
😂😂😂😂
Who are Hebrew Israelites lol
Me too 🍿
You mean Jews? Israelis?
The Christians and most of the atheists were extremely respectful. This was a great conversation
I think active listening during these kind of panels is essential, instead of solely waiting on your time to respond. Tyler definitely hijacked this debate. The purpose of the moderator is to mitigate someone doing what Tyler did.
True
If it was a problem for any one of them during the convo I can almost promise you it would have been addressed
@@ariyonnadennis559they did various times😂
Yeah, I wish they’d get rid of him. Who tf asked for a guy to sit with them anyway
@@BadBigBodysomeone who wanted to get a rise out of the debate.. whoever chose him to sit in on this conversation knew what they were doing
Christianity did not enslave our ancestors. It was the European enslavers who manipulated the scriptures and used Christianity to enslave.
Exactly, Infact the bible was a main focal point in the abolishment of slavery in north america
Finally someone said it! They are so misinformed.
This 💯💯💯
I mean slavery is in the bible though. There are rules about how to keep your slaves
@@chelseashamim9148 Slavery has been going on for centuries. What the bible is referring to is the slavery pre-Americas and is more like indentured servitude. You have to remember, the bible was not originally in english and was translated by people who wanted to use it for their gain
The Catholic girl in the multi colored shirt touched on a fact I was going to make. Christianity has roots in Africa years before Europeans went there. Kudos to her.
It was a minority. Christianity was introduced to black people mainly through the Transatlantic slave trade. And since then it has been used to control and manipulate black people for the worst
Yeah, like ONE place 😂 Africa is HUGE, And there was only one country it was found in.
@@kyiasimone1869most regions start in one place then spread. They took the gospel and spread it. That comment was to debunk that Christianity is not a white mans religion
@@aadesida37 Most of Africa did not believe in Abrahamic faiths, and did not start believing it by CHOICE…
Not true though
Roxie is really impressive. Intelligent, calm, thought out, able to listen. All around a benefit to see her in this conversation.
Why do they always think black Christianity began during the slave trade. Africa was one of the first places the gospel went.
It went to Ethiopia in the 4th century from the Middle East. Not to West Africa, where Black Americans originate. West Africa was brought Christianity by European missionaries in the 1800s.
@@ruffey1748 Yes, people know that. But, it starting in Africa refutes that it's a White religion
@@rockswapnastarted in Africa or borrowed key elements of certain African spirituality practices 🧐
@@ruffey1748Christianity has been present in Africa since antiquity either way. Sudan was also a predominantly Christian from the 6th century to the 1500s. Also, Christianity was present in Angola (Kongo Empire) long before the 1800s mate. And some of the earliest enslaved Africans that were brought to the 13 colonies were already Christians from that region. For example, Jemmy Cato.
That’s their favorite defense .
tyler’s the kind of guy to make his race his whole personality 😭
Okay.
@@Artliker1234Okay
It better be his whole personality. It's gonna determine his whole life.
@@michaelmitchell2143Why make that the only thing that defines you
But still end up with a white woman
Saying that the black church hasn’t shaped black culture is arguing for the sake of arguing. It’s literally a fact, the next question came up and we’re instantly referencing the black church again.
Agreed. You don't choose the past, you choose the future. It's like saying America was not built on the back of slavery. Or that eugenics didn't have a huge influence on western culture.
The point of the questions is to “argue”, to get the conversations and opinions rolling on the subject.
That does take away from black people who have never been Christian either following their own cultural spiritual practices , Rastafarian or Islamic practices
@@bossshxtonly ???? I don’t even know how to respond to this because where did I say that
@@tanvi7532 it doesn’t. Churches were places to gather and communicate. Without them we wouldn’t be where we are today as a culture. It’s a fact. I don’t practice religion, it’d be insane for me as a black American to say it hasn’t shaped our culture.
The moderator did a horrible job. Tyler consistently interrupted others but when they tried to explain their point, he would say let him finish. Clearly someones bias
No fr I noticed that too
@Jubilee please take note, it was too much
Many of you just don't like Tyler because he is for blk empowerment.. because there is nothing wrong with the points he was making
@@kdooley41 Who said anything was wrong with the points he made? He spoke over everyone and his manor was unpleasant. The O/P commented on how the moderator was bias and allowed this but made everyone else wait til he was finished to respond, it was not equitable. Has nothing to do with his points.
yall trippin
*Roxie was a breath of fresh air.*
*When she brought up the Ancient Ethiopian Tewahedo Christian community, I was so impressed! Everyone forgets about them and their rich history and indigenous culture!*
Her channel is "That Black Catholic Chick." Love her!
You love her because she’s a Republican and hates herself. 💀
Everybody was respectful. What are yall watching?
@@calebdavis381 The Guy In the Yellow Shirt was definitely not Respectful
@@aloe704He was passionate.
Wearing an upside down cross to the interview is absolutely disrespectful. But she's talking about saying Amen?
Very disrespectful, at least have respect for someone religion..but people only do this when it comes to Christian, if they where going against Muslims it would have been more respect, this just proves that atheist are only hurt Christians
Tyler isn't atheist. He's super Pro Black. Please get REAL black atheists on the platform who won't just talk about Pro Black Issues. Let them talk of why they believe there's nobody above.
Huh? Being an atheist and being "pro-black" are mutually exclusive now?
Yes!! Like someone who can really argue they don’t believe not because they believe something else
What's the correlation here between being those two things? I'm confused
exactly- he pissed me off so bad.
@@pedroantonio5565pro black has more to do with social justice/ political issues not religion.
Wooow he really thought he ate at James Harden though💀
yeah i got some secondhand embarrassment there lol
Ikr , he's gonna grow up watch this back and cringe.
I was looking for this comment 😂
Extremely cringe
and he did lmfao just bc u didn’t like the delivery doesn’t mean it’s not true
What’s the point of a moderator if all he’s gonna do is cut off everyone just let one dude speak?
Thought the exact same thing. It literally would’ve been better off without one
It’s probably the edit
Moderator is there push the conversation and keep things on track. If a mod notices certain points worth talking about, you’d create challenging questions for other to chime in on.
The moderator needs to moderate and pull other voices in and stop one voice from speaking over the others.
Because that one dude is cool and he has swagger
“Being a black woman predates biblical figures.” No it doesn’t. He just contradicted himself because he literally said that the inception of “blackness” as an identity happened 400 years ago when we were piled together in ships, when identity and culture was stripped and we now we’re just one; black. Which leads me to believe that there was identity before our enslavement that transcended the color of our skin. As an African woman it’s so interesting how Americans idolize blackness. In one sense I get it, but thinking about how back home we don’t refer to each other as black, but instead our country of origin or tribe? This is a very American conversation for sure. I’d love to see African Christians versus African American atheists.
Some of this people have to come and live in Africa😅
"Black" American is essentially its own ethnicity. There is a different culture, different DNA, and different experience. It is not idolized, but being the minority in a country founded on your ancestors slavery does make race stay on the front and center. Segregation was not long ago and we are not far removed from slavery. So Black americans are still dealing with the aftermath.
@@rockswapna bro, not going to lie to you that is just victim talk, every race was enslaved black, white, indian, chinese, we just happened to be the last ones that was enslaved the last and plus there was african/black slave owners too, and this whole slavery sob story is only prevelant in America, its not a big issue in the Caribbean, Africa nor anywhere else in the world everyone has moved on.
@@shurandygerard8183it’s not “victim talk” when you are presenting fact. The existence of slavery amongst other cultures does not remove the fact that slavery occurred in American, and that experience was unique in comparison to the others. There are different forms of slavery or ”servitude,” even dating prior to the European invasion of Africa, which were not violent, inhumane, or racialized. And if you don’t think Caribbean and African countries are still feeling the impact of colonization, you are mistaken. Just last year African leaders came together and spoke about the historical injustices that are still impacting them…They are strategizing to regain control of their resources and position themselves to be more effective within and outside of their borders.
Love your response!!! Very true. I also find it interesting that Black Americans tend to bash Latinos who are very well connected to their African roots, more-so than themselves. It's a love/hate relationship black Americans have for Latinos, and I hate to see it.
Someone should tell Tyler the Bible doesn’t say, “his feet was BLACK as brass.”
Yes, should have been instant correction there.
This is one of those you get the point things .
And His hair was white like wool
Skin like brass (brown) and hair like wool (African).
It does say that though ...which bible have you not been reading?
Not on a Easter Sunday 😂😭
I'm Christian and think it's pretty relevant
They are diabolical for that lol
Invisible Transes Day
🤣🤣
Underrated comment. 😆
Ethiopia is the second-oldest Christian country in the world. Armenia is the first. Africa was one of the first places Christianity flourished. And Roxy made some great points about individuality and identity.
east africa was the first place it flourished. not the entire africa.
@@inezaa you are correct.
Northeast Africa has always been a stronghold of Christianity until relatively recently. The Nubians followed the same form of Christianity as Ethiopia and were able to defeat the first Caliphate, the Rashidun Caliphate, twice in war until it broke from instability after nearly 1,000 years.
@@JohnDoe-bh2lp I've read that “religio-ethnic cleansing” is going on against Christians in that region.
Which has really nothing to do with Black American Christianity, the majority of them are not practicing Ethiopian Orthodox traditions.
Hats off to Mandisa. She was on fire as usual. Her and Matt Dillahunty are elite representatives for critical thinking and skepticism.
Roxy ! What a woman of grace and integrity! The Holy Spirit is strong in her … patience and compassion in everything she said 🙌
agreed! Regardless if you are religious or non-religious...
Seriously! Because she tolerated a lot lol
Lol she was the one who got on my nerves
gay
She was on point! She most def is anointed! I wish they had picked more people like her on the Christian side. I feel like they didn’t chose enough educated Christians for this one
That woman in the colorful blouse was speaking truth!
a truth, truth is relative.
Wearing an inverted cross and saying “keep your religion to yourself” is CRAZY.
Is she satanist??
and the fact that an inverted cross isn’t even ‘Anti-Christ’ at all it’s Saint Peter’s cross😂
Real
@@rileyfreeman4096who?
@@rileyfreeman4096 look at you educating me lol. Silly demons😅
Tyler own words betrayed him throughout the entire conversation. He kept saying he feel we should put our race on the same level or above our faith and beliefs but then when confronted with the fact that we are more than our race, he countered that With he doesn’t understand why people think he’s racist and hes not promoting black supremacy when that is exactly what black supremacy is. The word supremacy comes from the word “supreme” meaning greater than or above everything else. Kudos to the black Christian’s. They represented the faith very well.
Yes Because he believes that race should function at the same level or a higher level than religion specifically Christianity.
Since religion is at the highest level do we call it "religion supremacy"? (In some places it's called law but I digress) No so why are u calling it "black supremacy" ?
Secondly tyler said that phrase in the community context he doesn't mean that individually, he wants people(black people) to step up and do more for the community they're apart of so we can continue to set an example while building a legacy for generations to come. But to start that black people need to realize they are more than Christians.
Ole girl with the short blonde hair was clearly the educated in the room. Didn’t argue just listened and stated facts. Dude with Afro spiritual beliefs wasn’t an atheist and was super arrogant
I can tell your Christian from this comment
agree 1000%. she had class and you could tell, other dude was a mess.
Sister with the dreads was very educated herself. She had to correct the short blond hair woman about the history of Christianity in the black community. Honestly, they all came off very educated.
Dude was racist AF but from the other side.
which one?
really liked Roxy in this episode. She articulated her points fairly and well. When she was asked by Tyler about "how blackness came about" She stood her ground. That wasn't even the prompt. Tyler was way out of the line of questioning. Sometimes we need to sit and listen. Be slow to speak
Maybe I’m crazy but I feel like that question doesn’t even make any sense it’s an extremely vague question.
@@PeterGriffin11literally…and when she said it wasn’t her expertise he says “black Christian always dippin and dodging” huh ?? 😭
Yes, I feel as though Tyler was really getting away from the real essence and purpose of the conversation and really made it difficult for others to express their thoughts in this conversation
exactly she ate the most and she wasnt there to make friends but still kept her cool
I wish I knew her social media. I really like her.
As an Atheist, who lives in Africa we have it worst here. Is not easy being an atheist in Africa.
What country? Hope you find the truth
in jamaica same thing.
@@iarellano27 jfc
Atheist South African here
@@iarellano27 Ghana
Needed a neutral black host
YES
I don’t like him telling that woman she MUST put blackness over any other part of her identity
These extreme ideologies only cause more division and ultimately lead to genocide
I did appreciate it, though he could have given a simpler explanation of why. It's simply the fact that her blackness is the first thing people will see when she walks into a room. It's human nature to label someone, and frankly, most people will label a black woman as loud and aggressive. They don't care if she gardens, paints, or sells houses. The only thing they see until she speaks is that she is a black woman.
You don't like it because you do not understand fully what it is to be black/ to be of African Descent
People obsessed with race are cringe
@@aprilotero7448 black feminism does not say that. black feminism recognises the unique and intersectional experiences that black women face because of their race and sex/gender. that idea of putting blackness over being a woman is all him.
Mandisa was so respectful -educated- and well spoken, same with Don. I would’ve rather listened to the older folk talk about this honestly.
I used to see her on Matt Dilahunty's show years ago. She makes us black atheist women proud :) I hope one day she realizes shes making an impact just like the historical black atheists she mentioned at the beginning. Mandia's org is called "BlackNonBelievers".
@@Selanaxfanx omg thank you so much, I’ll check it out rn
No, she was not. There were many instances where she was making faces and judging when the people she disagreed with spoke
@@Nnwhenshs You're so welcome! Mandisa mentioned a few historical black atheist pioneers at the beginning of this video and I hope she knows she has contributed in the same way. I think her org is called "BlackNonBelievers". Enjoy :)
@@Nnwhenshs You're so welcome! Mandisa mentioned atheist pioneers at the beginning of the video and I hope she realizes shes had the same impact on Black atheists. Her org is "BlackNonBelievers".
Tyler contradicted himself when he disagreed with Roxy when she pointed out that Tyler is treating black people as a monolith. He responds by saying all black people should put blackness above everything else…Sir that is literally what a monolith is. You are literally saying the black community should operate as a monolith by us all choosing to put blackness above everything else.
That’s not a contradiction
The societal expectation placed upon individuals of Black heritage, suggesting a perceived responsibility to serve as representatives or ambassadors for the entire Black community. This expectation appears rooted in the reductionist view held by some individuals, wherein one's racial identity becomes the primary lens through which they are perceived and evaluated. In essence tho what Tyler is trying to articulate was fostering unity and collective action within the Black community holds immense potential for addressing systemic issues and achieving economic empowerment. By leveraging collective resources and mobilizing community efforts, opportunities emerge to establish and support Black-owned businesses, create educational initiatives focused on entrepreneurship and financial literacy, and empower future generations through quality education that fosters not just survival, but thriving
That's not what a monolith is. A monolith is saying they're all the same. Not that we should use our resources to feed, house, and educate Black people. He didn't even say a specific type of Black people. What are you talking about?
I think what he meant is that we need to be doing more…frfr and since you can really only focus on one thing at a time keep religion 👍🏽because everyone has their vice, their comforts nd stuff but we really do need institutions…we’ve kept our legacy’s through word of mouth,through ideas… long enough🤷🏽♀️
Putting 'blackness over other things is black supremacy
The hugs at the end looked very genuine❤. To have a conversation with the ability to “agree to disagree” and actually mean it without animosity is what we need more of💯
That exchange between Tyler and Roxy irritated me. Who is Tyler to tell ANY black person what they should and shouldn't prioritize when it comes to blackness? He's NOT the authority and people like him are a reason why I have a HUGE issue with these so-called "pro-blacks". You don't get to police other people's blackness based on what YOU believe "blackness" is. Like she said, she's just as black as he is, and no amount of rhetoric is going to change that.
The societal expectation placed upon individuals of Black heritage, suggesting a perceived responsibility to serve as representatives or ambassadors for the entire Black community. This expectation appears rooted in the reductionist view held by some individuals, wherein one's racial identity becomes the primary lens through which they are perceived and evaluated. In essence tho what Tyler is trying to articulate was fostering unity and collective action within the Black community holds immense potential for addressing systemic issues and achieving economic empowerment. By leveraging collective resources and mobilizing community efforts, opportunities emerge to establish and support Black-owned businesses, create educational initiatives focused on entrepreneurship and financial literacy, and empower future generations through quality education that fosters not just survival, but thriving
Well said fam well said
Plus its no such thing as defending myself as black. When we start needing to prove how black we are lol.
its the most annoying part of these pro-black discussions, feels like someone is always trying to check your card. Or one-up your "blackness" while also saying the concept of blackness is an evil racist creation.
Just obnoxious.
literally came to the comments to see if anyone else was noticing that
Tyler shifted this conversation soooooooooooo far from the original topic i forgot wtf i was watching….smh
He referenced the development of Christianity in Africa during a discussion between black Christians and atheists. Did he shift the conversation or do you just not like what he said?😂
No he mostly shifted to discuss black movements @TK-cg4ks
@@TheMilanW And he did in connection to Christianity. I know what you’re implying and I’m not going to let you have it without spelling it out.
@TK-cg4ks well the entire topic is about Christianity so I'm not sure what you're trying to imply
Ummm, did you watch the whole interview?? He most DEFINITELY kept with the tone of the topic and THEN SOME. For Black Americans… you can not talk about Christianity, without discussing our history and culture in America. It goes hand in hand. PERIOD.
How many times did the "unbiased" commontator give Tyler the ground to speak before anyone else?
The whole video is heavily edited. Tyler unfortunately dominated the debate (as many of the extreme participants on Jubilee often do)
@@Random-sk6hm The mod probably gave him some chance to repeatedly explained his stance because other panelists seemed unwilling to accept his opinion and keep on missing his point and being defensive for whatever reason (at least that's how I see it)
@@Lunearien he was the most defensive one there 🤦♀️
Because he was being logical
I think they would’ve said something if they minded it
I love how the pastor named specific programs that he wants to implement into his church, props to him!
The black Christians represented Christianity very well. I like this discussion 🙏🏾
lol they were very innacurate like all christians
@@ilovepdub Why are atheist so unhappy and ready to contest/humble everyone they see that doesn't believe what they believe in
@@ilovepdub The most happiest athiest
@@ilovepdub innacurate how?
amen!
It was how everybody calmly delivered their points without it being chaotic. Kudos to the sound points each gave. This is how a debate is supposed to be, listening to respond
except for Tyler. he just wanted to get his point across.
Listening to respond is a poor listening technique and is how aggression and stalemates are generated. Listening to understand is how schemas diverge, creativity is fostered, and perspectives are broadened.
Great that they now have a mediator for topics like this!
I actually don’t like that, because I feel like they cannot fully express themselves
@@DEEANNA88 it was chaos before the moderator although sometimes I feel he is useless
They needed a moderator for a while. Next they need to start showing fact checks on the screen
@@Gant723 this!!
@@Gant723 they used to do this so it's wild they stopped.
Getting mad cause someone says amen is crazy😭😭 don’t tell me what df I can’t say
I’ve noticed a lot of ppl are against Christianity because of personal experiences NOT the actual religion . They have issues with “the people of the church” and that needs to be clarified.
But if a majority of the people of the church are acting a certain way then that says something about the religion itself
@@nataliaorocio3871no…it says a lot about PEOPLE. Bc the Bible goes against every kind of evil. Which is why the lady you responded to says that people have a problem with Christians themselves NOT Christianity. Bc Christian’s are the representatives of Christianity.
@@nataliaorocio3871 its not a majority, it's just a loud minority
No it’s very much both lol
@@inezaa saying that doesn’t make it true. You have to actually give a valid argument
The fact they all came together respectfully in the end was beautiful and that's what it's about. I'm glad to see them all together in spite their differences.
The most powerful moment of the whole video
I hope during the next conversation the mediator does a better job at leaving bias at the door and letting everyone finish their sentences.
You ain’t lying ❗️ It was so blatant and annoying.
1000% agree with this!! It may even be helpful to cycle out mediators every now and then because he really missed the mark in this video tbh.
Frrrrrr
100% agreed. Not letting certain people end their conversation... sentences... like come on; its obvious where your bias leans towards
Gentle heathens don’t care for the word fr
Being mad that somebody says amen when they talk is wild. Do we really want a society that looks down on individuality for the sake of keeping the peace?
Tyler, if you see this - Sometimes the best response is to simply listen.
Yet tyler was spitting the most historical facts. Maybe you should be listening to tyler
@@newyorka7 I see you are also quick to talk, slow to listen. Historical facts are great, with proper context and the correct conversation. However Tyler derailed every conversation and question by trying to argue points that weren’t being discussed. He flatly ignored the premises of the questions in favor of espousing “facts” that no one was there for. And at every chance he got, he was dismissive of other “black” experiences that didn’t fit his narratives. Tyler was loud, possibly hurt, and flatly disrespectful.
@@christopherdavis1012 dude it honestly just sounds like you disagree with tyler’s facts and are creating your own false narrative as to how what he was saying didn’t fit into the questions when they fit perfectly. He literally said he’s not there to invalidate anyone’s blackness so how was he dismissive of anyone’s black experience? He never cut anybody off or claimed there was a specific way to be black. The fact that you claim no one was there for the facts he presented shows your bias towards him. It really just seems like his facts go against your world view so you’re trying to paint him out as the bad guy when not only did he open up great dialect between him and the Christian’s, but mandisa and Darius were also clearly on the same accord as him. And are we watching the same video? Nowhere in this was he loud, or disrespectful. This was quite literally possibly the most respectful dialogue to occur on one of these types of videos.
@@newyorka7 🤦🏾♂️ you came under my comment thinking you found someone to play with. Stop. Go find someone else to bother with this nonsense.
@@christopherdavis1012 no one is playing with you. Grow up
There's so much more to explore here about black religiosity and black atheism. I wish this could be a regular series.
Asking us Christians to put our race above or on par with our religion is such an unreasonable ask. 35:03
It's pure idolatry.
And that's the problem with u Christians!
Nah race supercedes religion. Otherwise everyone would practice together. Be logical not emotional brother.
Is it unreasonable though?
@@duntaejones6107 Yes. It is unreasonable to ask anyone to change core values. That's something that they do internally over time.
i’m so glad yall brought smart people for this convo lol don’t agree with all of them for many reasons but they all hold their own intellectually
So here we have seven people who want to have a genuine conversation, and then we have Tyler.
He was spittin’, though
He's just not brainwashed and I bet its rough for him talking to cultitst who talk to a toothfairy, insane tbh
@@NazayBordeaux yeah if you count drooling
@@jesegat2789what are you talking about dude💀
@@SM_MEX Its hard to have a conversation with someone whos delusional
I like how this is with an older panel. Too many videos like this are lacking that perspective.
Indeed i was kinda worried at first cuz i feel my parents generation had a very strong and successful Christian brainwashing 😭
The "upside-down" cross is actually incredibly Catholic. Peter refused to be martyred in the same way as Christ because he felt unworthy. He asked to be placed upside-down on the crucifix.
I guess the swastika is perfectly fine because it's a sign of peace to hindus?
symbols can mean multiple things. if a symbol is inverted, it usually means the opposite of what it initially represents.
True, however people today don't know that and absolutely are trying to mock Christianity...
playing semantics. at the end of the day are you wearing it because of that reason? No
So it got hijacked by satanic reddit
Mandisa is a BREATH OF FRESH AIR!!!❤❤❤ ughhhh I love Her
Being mad about someone saying amen is so ridiculous
no cause its cringe and makes me wanna throw up
@@cocoalovelife8849and we still going to say it
@@cocoalovelife8849 if you feel that way there’s some demon in you for sure
@@cocoalovelife8849amen to you
bro where do u see or sense any madness coming from Mandisa or Coco?
hahahaha jubilee releasing this on Easter Sunday is crazy but thanks for watching yall this was a dope episode to moderate
Do Gamers Vs Non Gamers please?
@@jaughnekow what would they even argue about...
@@NZsaltz the stereotypes and all.
Are you part of the production team that gets to decide on when to release this?
Thanks, by the way.
Hi GEN!
You can tell by Tyler’s body language that he is closed to everyone else ideals but his own. You can tell he is listening to respond not to receive information and see another point of view. He’s very immature
Great observation of body language but I actually crossed my arms to look better on camera 😕
accurate
Immature was the first thing I picked up
@@BlackPeerReviewTylerBurnsYou can have a quick witted response to what everyone is saying but please try to receive the gist of what many viewers have been able to see here from watching you.
Many responses are genuine and although you don't have to agree I sincerely hope you understand that usually if various people see some of these negative attributes in you that there might be a little something to what they are saying. You were dismissive of beliefs and opinions opposite of your own.
@@TheMariemarie16from my interpretation he was very respectful. Only when he was accused of practicing black supremacy for discussing blackness is when I’d say he was “dismissive”. The entire discussion was about how blackness shaped religion, and his entire basis was instilling black communities with their own resources and not relying on external beliefs or practices.
i love the fellowship/mingling and hugs at the end
@23:19 - Claims he isnt here to make her qualify her blackness then goes on to question her knowledge of black history
This is literally not making her qualify her blackness. He did not imply anything despite her not knowing her black history. It was a question she couldn't answer and he moved on
This @@ndadzo06
@@ndadzo06 Chose not to answer. Not that she couldn't
He was actually pretty broad with questioning her . She felt more triggered of proving herself but he didnt ask that from her. He was getting a scope of where she stands
She did that herself. Anyone with eyes and ears can see what kind of black she is.
I love seeing black people BEAUTIFULLY articulating themselves regardless of religion love this
He completely dismissed a large group of several ethnicities thinking bronze skin and wooly hair is ONLY black people…the fact he named athletes and not intellectuals also says a lot about where his mind set is.
I don't think he's familiar with a great many intellectuals.
No, I think he was just saying that Jessica is obviously not white
no other race has woolly hair…
What other race has woolly hair?
He never said black ppl are the only ones that have bronze skin and wooly hair. And if he were to name intellectuals majority of them probably wouldn’t have known them. Why is it problematic to use examples that quite literally everyone knows whether they’re not sports or not?
Mandisa is well spoken. I appreciate her ability to share her thoughts with intelligence.
That moderator seems so scared of that big guy. It seems like he’s always allowing him to cut off everyone but not letting ppl interject.
Thank you, i thought i was the only one that noticed everytime 'let him talk let him talk' but he never had the same energy for anyone else
It was annoying af
@@UncleDexterexactly! I kinda wish he didn’t join the group but stayed out of it all together
@@sarahlarock9885 Do u know how hard it is to moderate these types of questions and debates? Especially with a group of 8 ppl, so yea he did a fair job
They never had a moderator before on screen
“Don’t mix church and state!”….”The church is not political enough” Make up your mind. But we all know the proper answer would not be the latter.
He’s talking about utilizing the church’s power in the black community and the money it collects from black people to push for black progression politically. Not that we need more Religious based laws.
@@TheMFStudios The first inevitably leads to the second.
@AppleOfThineEye not necessarily.
@@briathomas5310 Money leads to political instantiation as money is state tender.
Tyler's tone talking directly to the women vs talking to the men was two completely different attitudes and it did not go unnoticed...
Noticed this too!
No he was not! Put your feminist sword down sheesh!
100%
He was rather defensive from the jump. Look at his body language. And his tone.
Yes, I clocked that too!
Tyler gets his information from personal experience and UA-cam and he is the loudest one.
we fight not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places Ephesians 6:12
Amen
I really dislike this verse.
@aliasfakename3159 okay, did anyone ask 💀?
@@aliasfakename3159 why
amen
I'm so glad the Liberian finally spoke up at the end. Because as a Nigerian-American I felt like our experiences and train of thought is being overlooked
I'd say hijacked and utilized by people who know nothign about these experiences but want to score points using Africa as a whole.
@@BroJo676UGHHHH YESSSS!!! OH MY GOODNESS
Very true. I've noticed many black westerners, both American and European, seem to think that just because Africans are also black, that they have the same experiences and outlook on life.
@@thenewfoundation9822I don’t think like this 👀
@@BroJo676what kinda points do we score?
I’m not religious but Roxy made the most sense here. Very eloquent and open minded.
Fr she made a lot of sense but lost me at the afterlife part
She lost me a few times. She was well spoken and respectful, but I always disassociate when people speak in religious platitudes instead of reality. Or claim they have no fear of death 😂
@@Jessicad9304who are you to control how she speaks and how she lives her truth?
@@Hwhdueu wow there turbo! Who said I wanted to control how she speaks and lives? I just commented on the effect her words had on me, as the internet is a place for sharing various perspectives and reactions. Try to be less reactive and defensive if you’re going to participate online.
@@Jessicad9304 you’re claiming you know her more than she does. That she’s not in reality and IS afraid of death when she said she isn’t
It was the level of hugs given after this whole thing that really shows are straight. Great job.
Roxy is speaking facts! Tyler keeps jumping around in the convo trying to take any dig where ever he can when she doesn’t want to answer his question. Like bruh that’s not the convo we are in
I disagree. Tyler was speaking historical facts. Where in this video has tyler taken a dig? It’s not that she didn’t want to answer his question, it’s bc of her outlook on life she never even thought to research it for herself to even have an idea on it. Tyler was bringing up valid points that should be conversed as black person especially in America.
@@newyorka7 bruh, Tyler was literally not even talking about the topic and was talking about a bunch of nonsense that didn't even revolve around the question. His mindset is full of victimization, just like what Roxy said that they have a victimized mentality because you see he also brought up his own personal experiences, and then based on that one situation that happened in his life he continued to judge Christians and believed that black people are being oppressed. Like dude it's 2024, there is no oppression unless you believe in it and victimize yourself.
@@livvy5984 What an ignorant take. Literally everything tyler said was spot on. You have to lack serious historical context if you believe nothing he was saying was on topic. Hence why mandisa and Darius were on the same accord as him. Please name one thing he said that was of a victim mindset. And you’re obviously just bitter about the historical truths he presented and are trying to demonish his argument bc he clearly said that he was a Christian during the time frame of his personal story. He said that was his first experience with micro aggressions within the religion, he never said that made him judge Christian’s and believe that black ppl were oppressed. And if you believe there’s no oppression in 2024 you have to painfully blind to everyday life. Have you never heard of Palestine? Congo? I mean Kanye west literally had his bank account shut down for his political views. Blacks are the only ppl who are told to forget their history yet we’re supposed to always remember everyone else’s. Miss me with that blissful ignorance!
@@livvy5984Yeah as a Christian, I agree with A LOT of what Tyler said. He doesn’t have a victim mentality, if you research the things he spoke about it’s actually STILL happening to black ppl today it’s just more covert and there’s data to prove it.
Real estate is a means to creating generational wealth and a study found that black ppl have to “un-black” their homes in order to get fair market value on their homes when selling them. It’s also been found that black women (regardless of socioeconomic status) are dying at alarming rates during childbirth simply because its believe they can take more pain than other races and/or are believed to be lying about their pain. Nurses spoke on how it’s in their RECENT textbooks!
However, I do believe that regardless of these issues (there are more I just didn’t list them) black ppl should use the resources their ancestors fought and died for to level up!
@@livvy5984the second part of what you said makes me think you’re not even black and probably shouldn’t be discussing at all.
Woah, this is one of the most interesting conversations ever put on this channel. Thank you. And thank you for making it an hour long.
you guys should do pro-choice scientists vs. pro-life scientists
96% of biologists believe life starts at conception. Go and check yourselves.
That would be interesting!
So basically 10 vs 1? Why?
The consesus is so one sided for scientist. It may come off as awkward and unbalanced, sorta like the flat earth episode.
It’ll be like that scientists vs flat earthers or doctors vs. anti-vaxxers episodes
Also, it's crazy that most of the atheists in the video have enough faith to be mad at him but not believe in him at the same time.
Bruh Thank You
As a black atheist roxie was nailing it. The black guy who is a atheist was just very angry and wanted us to all think the same way while saying don't be same.
I agree. I am agnostic, but I really liked Roxie too
@@FreeBird2.0 I’ve made the same observation ! Thanks for pointing that out
Roxie is the kind of Black Christian that us black atheists love to have as friends. At least, I would.
Black Atheist and I agree she was excellent and so well spoken. That guy started rambling and absolutely lost me towards the end.
Nah she is just a black conservative… all her opinions go back to black conservative talking points nothing about Christianity vs atheism.
As a Christian I honestly feel people with conversational tactics like Tyler’s divide us. Going on the defense instead of asking questions and actually listening to someone’s answer without feeling the need to demolish their viewpoint should be the way you interact with
Idk our blackness feels too closely linked to christianity globally speaking idk
@@ariyonnadennis559how come ?
I think his viewpoints may have made some uncomfortable , and that’s usually the case when Christian’s cannot contribute anything to debates except their emotions.
The point of a debate is to invalidate the other position , why was tiptoing needed?
Dude really messed up his own premise during the "Be pro-black in politics" argument because Black Christians, by and large, support the party who is pro-LGBTQ+, pro-gender equality, pro-abortion, and (comparatively) pro-Black. Where is there a big example of black people not voting in their own best interests b/c of religious beliefs?
@@AlliterativeAtheist if you look up the definition of a debate it’s a formal discussion between opposing viewpoints. It’s not to invalidate someone else’s views… I feel like that’s a huge issue with people like the guy in the video
Jubilee the next middle ground debate should be about those who believe in an afterlife and those who don't! That would be interesting!
I agree! Maybe even people that have had near death experiences
This would be interesting to watch!
👏🏾
I'm not a Christian, but I felt more supportive of them, because the "wokeness" of the others felt more authoritarian, totalitarian, and intolerant. Interesting conversation, though.
Tyler is saying he’s not reducing Roxy’s blackness while actively ridiculing and belittling her. 😐😐😐
He’s been living inside Twitter too much 😂😂😂
Did I really?
@@BlackPeerReviewTylerBurns NO, you were on point. Christians are just exercising wilful ignorance in these comments
@@BlackPeerReviewTylerBurns
I didn’t see this while watching. I’d be interested if the OP had some examples because I’m a bit confused.
@@BlackPeerReviewTylerBurnsyes you did, the same way u felt ppl naturally assumed u were Christian’s for being black as frustrating is the same way u some her race to one political ideology. It’s clear you failed to understand ppl having a different opinion to your own.
Yo the dude in the yellow and black is not listening to comprehend. He’s straight up angry and wants to prove a point. Baby if you not open minded…why did you come?
You don’t need to be open minded about historical fact, actually. This is how objective truths work.
@@TK-cg4ksit's also an objective truth that Christianity in Africa pre-dates Europeans on the continent and is actually older than many African traditional belief systems, but atheists with a bias tend to overlook that truth...
@@nrb1989Christianity is very much a new age religion. There are A LOT of spiritual & religious systems that predate it.
hes literally the definition of having a victim mentality
Which African Spiritual Belief system is Christianity older than @@nrb1989? Please give a specific example. I would love to research this. Thank you.
Bro, this is embarrassing. I thought I’d agree with the black atheists since I'm a black atheist, but these were hella annoying! Jubilee gotta stop letting a couple self-aggrandising Twittermouths dominate the discussion. Think you change the title to “Black enough or not”...
Lmaooo. I am a black atheist and I honestly kinda agree. I wish the questions were different and more theological. Mandisa was alright though.
I think that the black community needs to start segregating into smaller groups. Some blacks are so toxic, and the more respectable blacks have nothing in common other than superficial features.
Jubilee purposely cuts out a lot of parts of any debate they have from the video. I wouldn't take this at face value
Or you guys should be more logical
Exactly!