Sig P365 XL Major Trigger Malfunction UPDATE!
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- Опубліковано 29 гру 2022
- Update video going over what Sig did about the Sig P365XL that would fire when it was shook.
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Sig... the company that treats their customers as their QC department.
100% agree.
MCX Gen 1 victim here 😢
@@Chupamiculo I'm sorry
Sig simps are worse than thot simps.
Sadly, yes. But once it's fixed, they're great. Just don't be an early adopter on new pistols. Let the first customers test it for you lol.
Good update on the Shaky Sig. Glad Sig got it up and running for you and the owner.
Thanks for the update!
Thanks for the update. Good to see Sig replaced parts to correct the issue.
Sig has always treated me right when I’ve had issue with my early serial numbered original p365. I was breaking firing pins. Since I’ve had it back I’ve shot over 4,000 rounds through it with zero issues
I waited a year to buy mine and it's been an absolute trooper. Eats anything from Federal Munitions Reman, Wimchester White box, Blazer brass. Had it milled for an EPS and it sits on a WCXL frame with a TLR7 Sub, it's so easy to control for being a fraction of the size of my PDP or G19.
Great video !! Keep it concise
Thanks for the update. I’ve got one with a few hundred flawless rounds through it. Still
Gives me pause.
Why would you fix the "Shake Awake" feature?
Haha. Great Comment!!!
So if they replaced the fire control unit did the rest amp it with the same serial number?
Thanks for the update on your XL. I love me a Sig
I have 2 365’s. An xl and a standard model and I will say until broken in both came from the factory very stiff/tight. Not an issue just more noticeable than some other pistols I’ve had.
I appreciate the honest follow up. I figured this was more of a one off issue with that pistol rather than a design flaw. We’d have heard about it a lot more than one video otherwise. Take care.
The thumbs of Thor could not release my slide lock
Having the exact same issue with my P365 SAS. Just put in a customer support ticket linking to your youtube video. THANNNKKKSSSS!!!
Dude first shot with my xl and the slide locked up out of battery and my buddy had to put all of his weight into it in order to clear the weapon. Could not get through a mag before the lockup would happen. Long story short, sent it to sig and they replaced the barrel. Ever since the barrel replacement the firearm has been very reliable.
Will installing a manual safty prevent the gun from going off if it does have this problem?
The SIG Paradox. How to shoot it enough so its reliable, but not so much it wears out.
The HK paradox. How to shoot it enough to know it's reliable, but not so much that it wears it... Wait you almost can't wear it out. Nevermind.
sig makes all their internals metal, not cheap plastic like most, not sure you can wear em out lol
I think that if more people would actually train/shoot their firearm we would here about this problem more often.
Thanks 4 the follow up! Hopefully its only a one off issue for all of us 365 edc'ers
Can it go off with no finger on trigger. In holster. Shake forward or a tap of holster straight down?
Good video. We have used Glock and Sig customer service as a dealer a few times. Both have outstanding CS and always resolved any issue. I’m not making excuses here but did he say he got the gun used ?
I have guns with years of reps in and out of the holster, and they don't show that much wear (15min per day at min). I do tend to buy nice holsters, though, and the wear I see is usually on the frame and the top of the slide along the edges (but usually no raw metal). I like my holsters tight too, I make sure that they will hold the pistol with a loaded mag while upside down and shaken, if it doesn't drop after a good number of shakes it passes in my book.
Thanks for the update, I just think it's important to be fair even when you're annoyed by dumb comments. One of the myths about kydex holsters I see from time to time is that they will wear away at your finish, but the reality is a well crafted holster will not.
For those interested I have 5 holsters from Trex for 3 pistols, and one holster from Harry's. The 19.5 was in and out of a gen 1 sidecar numerous times and the only signs of wear I ever saw were the polished spots on the trigger guard, and the barrel. Walther and Sig both have lights now and for some reason the spots that seem to rub are the top edges of the slide, Walther finish seems to be less resilient than the Sig.
So just so I’m clear the gun would only go off With the trigger pulled and shaking the gun it would not go off just by shaking right
Mannnnnnnn, I really wanted specifics. Danggggit! Appreciate the update though!
Why did it have to go thru FFL? Just curious... fed regs say they can destroy and replace frame and send back to the customer direct (at least last time I checked). Is this becauae of the private shipping issue going on with UPS/Fedex?
It would suck in a place like NJ bc you might have to get a new permit to purchase for no good reason.
As many of these sold in the US alone. 1 other report of this issue within this thread. Well there may be something sig needs to look into, but my xl to this point has been flawless. Hopefully this problem never arises for me but if it does, I'll make a phone call and have it fixed. Glad they made it right.
Mine does the exact same thing brand new
Tolerance stacking plus the natural play from having a separate fire control unit would explain this, rather than an individual part being defective.
It shouldn’t. On the 365 and 320 the slide and all its components are attached to the FCU not the frame or in Sig speak the Grip Module. It should not matter if you stuck the FCU into a block of wood because the Grip Module (or block of wood) has no direct contact with the firing components (slide and barrel). That is why multiple companies make frames for both guns because it is simply a body that the chassis fits into.
Taking account of tolerance stacking is a routine part of competent mechanical design in ANY product.
Great job…..one of the best gun sites on the internet. Just curious….did the owner discover the problem and contact you for help? After you posted your last video on the subject, did you hear of any other similar situations? I’m not a Sig guy so don’t own or use the P365 of any flavor. Thanks, George
About How many rds had been though the gun before it became a shake weight?
Curious as to how many rounds had been fired. I have over 1000 on my XL, and haven't had any issues. Goes bang every time. I have a macro too, but haven't put but 2-300 through it. The macro prints enough that I carry the XL in the warm months, so I train more with it.
mine is doing a similar thing, i bought the MM Commander grip and when i switched modules, (im using snap caps for this ) it would only go off in my right hand (im left handed,) every frew trigger pulls,, then i would have to shake or touch the slide but when i put it back in the Xmacro module it functions as normal, which i ve had t in other grips before and nothing even close to this has happened… i p,an to send it off to sig and see what they say.
I had the same issue. They said the fire control was out of spec. They fixed it, sent it to the FFL, and all is good again. Hopefully, it stays that way.
After watching your video I discovered that mine was doing the exact same thing. Only have about 100 round through mine and never noticed this at the range but after watching your video, I started dry firing it and I noticed that the pull wait was very inconsistent and it would sometimes hang up and the striker work have a delay. Just sent mine back to sig…hope it comes back fixed!
I have a brand new one that's doing the same thing also. It hasn't even been to the range yet, but it won't dry fire without bumping the slide.
Me too!
@@jeepthang72 send it back to sig, they fixed mine! Got it back in 10 days. They replaced the fcu because it was out of tolerance.
Found your video today. Was at the range shooting tonight. Shot five rounds and 6th the gun didn’t fire. Ejected round in chamber. No firing pin strike. Pulled trigger for next round. Trigger dead. No wall. All the way back. Tried shaking. Won’t fire. Contacting Sig now. Something is broken internally. 😢
Thanks for your vid.
Thought Sig was supposed to be so good. Was thinking about moving from Glock. Not so sure now.
Love my Glocks but with mass produced guns there's going to be a few out there that are screwed up.
I bought my 11yr old Son a Maverick .22LR bolt action rifle years back from Academy brand new & that rifle would fire when you flip it on "Safe" and back "Off" of Safety.
Whether you had a round chambered or not..
I just cut the rifle in 1/2 & threw it away.
Now that’s a crazy malfunction!
I had issue with my 716i and sig told me I cannot send to them from FFL or direct ship. They said go to any gun store and ask them to look at it and call them for shipping instructions. Sorry but I doubt a gun store that I didn’t buy from is going to want to take my rifle and wait on hold with sig and then ship for me. Seems very odd. For the record have sent firearms back to mfg before directly without FFL.
Same issue mine just got to Sig today. Fingers crossed but damn what a disappointment. My favorite part was the last dead trigger I had, let off the trigger then BOOM.
I got it back yesterday. Had to go through an FFL because they replaced the ENTIRE fire control unit
I trust my 229, to sit loaded and hidden. I even did the .357 SIG conversion on it!
Congrats
Almost bought that gun but the lawsuit and your vdos convinced me to go with Hellcat Pro instead
Hellcat pro also has trigger issues make sure you test the one you buy to make sure it's not one of them.
@@S.0.G I’m not aware of the Hellcat Pro trigger issue. If you have a link about it would love to know. Thanks
My 365xl does that also.. what steps do I need to do to get them to check it. Also the Romeo zero that came with mine does not operate fully either
Any update?
I have no idea why people still carry anything Sig related (except the DA/SA models). I mean, where there's Sig smoke, there almost always seems to be Sig fire. "It is what it is." No, man, it's not. People want to shoot themselves in the junk or the femoral artery or the butt, good on 'em. But shooting someone else negligently because Sig can't get the 320 or the 365 series trigger right? Lesson here is, don't walk fast, jog, bend over, or anything else movement related while you've got a Sig in your drawers.
Simple just don’t have one in the chamber while carrying
Why did it need to go to an ffl on the return? Had my M&P sent back to my house after i had it returned to me.
So originally, would the gun go off if the trigger wasn’t pulled and the gun was shaken? Or did you have to pull the trigger and then shake for it to go off? Not good either way but im curious. Makes me want a 43x instead.
Not possible as I was telling people it has a striker safety plugger/block like Glock, this could only happen with trigger pulled to where it touched block, bet his block has a bur and made it stick and then boom shake it and boom it shoots
so it didnt shoot by shaking it, it just wouldnt shoot sometimes unless you shook it with trigger pulled? thats what that form is saying
Never had a problem with mine
When my budget allows, I'm going to set up a training pistol identical to my carry pistol, so I have one to put wear and tear on, and one to carry.
I just got a 365 nra edition last week on 4-13-23 the case says January this year and it has the exact same issue. I am contacting sig Monday for a warranty repair. This must be an issue they need to look into. My springfield xds mod 2 came with a test fire target, apparently sig don't fire their guns before they sell them.
By the way the trigger never has a break when it malfunctions you pull it all the way back and nothing happens till you give it a shake. I've never seen anything like it. I've shot 2 other 365's my friends have and loved them that's why I bought this one. Hopefully they fix it
Funny you had to go through an ffl to send it back. Glock told me I could use fedex, ups or an ffl. Since it service work, they said it was fine ....
Im curious as to what part exactly was causing this malfunction. Was something out of spec and sig just replaced the whole fcu to be sure? Seems like it had to do with the sear engagement components being hung up and having to shake free from a burr somewhere. But I’m no gunsmith so what do I know.
I would bet the FCU was replaced. He said it had to go through an FFL, and every gun I’ve ever sent in for warranty/repair has been mailed straight back to me. The FCU in these guns is the serialized part, so if it was replaced it would be a “new” firearm that would require a background check
@@adammanning8882 yeah I was thinking that to since when I sent my p320 in for the “update” it was mailed directly back to me. But with the new firearm laws and such I wasn’t sure. Seems like they would have just said they replaced the fcu/firearm instead of listing parts they replaced
Bro he pulled the trigger lol.
@@tacticalbt1023 what??? Lol
If the sear pin becomes dislodged, it can cause this issue. Based on the condition of the gun, it may have been due to wear . The sear pin is held in place by the safety lever pin. If the FCU was taken out of the grip module, it is possible that the safety lever pin could have started coming out and then the sear pin could have walked out with use. The frame being replaced, I didn’t catch that part in the video, but if it was them maybe he got the frame inspected Friday night, right before they changed the tooling that was worn out.
So it didn't just go off when it was broke. You had to pull trigger and shake correct?
That’s what I get out of this and the previous video. Even though in this video a couple of his statements could be taken as though “it goes off when you shake it”.
I watched his first video on this again earlier and never did he demonstrate or claim the gun “just goes off” by shaking it. Every time he showed it being shook and discharging, he was keeping pressure on the trigger.
Yup striker safety block/plunger block it from firing unless trigger fullly pressed
Love my sig p229
I hate you had trouble. I have 700 rounds through my P365 and 400 rounds through my P365 XL…both without a single failure with multiple types of ammo
I’ll pay $50 for every P365 out there. I’d hate for anyone to get hurt with them…
Best comment I to will buy any 365 so no one gets hurt. But I will out bid you I will pay 51 dollars to any 365 a owner who wants to be safe from them. Lol
@@andershilmo1866 $52!
@@small-town-southern-man3573 hahah raise ya a buck.
Hahahaaaaaaaaa😊
I will never forgive sig for their horrible quality control s***-tastic customer service and unsafe products. The m17 selection program was never actually completed there was some seriously shady fuckery.
The Sig P320 is the only pistol ever adopted by the US military in any capacity that didn't go through rigorous trials and testing. The P320 only went through the most minor preliminary testing, nothing different then if you went to the shooting range, and then adopted it immediately. Any serious testing on the pistol and the P320 would have failed miserably whereas Glock would have easily won.
I really love the 365 platform, but I will probably never trust them or the 320 series enough to carry.
seems like it just wasn't returning to battery all the way, of the FCU didn;t "think" it was in battery? Any guess as to why is just speculation, but it seems like they thought it was easier to just replace the FCU and send it back, kind of like how the best move sometimes when troubleshooting a computer is just to reset it (believe me, i have spent way more time chasing gremlins than a simple reinstall would have been). Probably kept it to maybe do QA later to figure it out.
I love the style of sig but these issues are concerning.
They gave you a whole new gun..how can you not trust it? The other parts are just a modular attachment for the fcu??
What was the issue that caused it to shoot on shake?
It wasn’t just shooting upon shaking it. As in you couldn’t chamber a round and shake the gun causing a discharge. Something was malfunctioning within the FCG, causing a failure to discharge upon depressing the trigger. If you continue to hold pressure on the trigger and shake it, the gun would then discharge.
Interesting vid. New FCU.....did they make a new one with the same SN? or they just put any FCU and then the owner had to fill in new Form with the FFL (new firearm).....now that is a pain in the @$$
Mine is doing this. P365 SAS slide used with 1 year newer fcu.
Update: it stopped on it's own.
I had a glock 19 with a bad striker made the gun completely unsafe had to replace it check you're parts bros
Any updates?
Do we know what caused it yet?
Just curious, did they actually tell you what was wrong or did they just replace all the parts in the gun and call it a day? Haha big difference between identifying and fixing the problem or just for all intents and purposes giving you a brand new gun and saying they fixed your old one
If you look at the bottom of the report earlier in the video you’ll see they couldn’t replicate the malfunction. Likely, they just replaced everything and called it a day
NGL, I didn't pay much attention to these videos until my XL did something very similar -- I can pull the trigger all the way to the "backstop" of its travel and it won't send the striker forward unless I apply a great deal of pressure or "shake" the gun. It seems to break at a different point with each new trigger pull. Gotta sideline my Sig until this gets sorted out. Thanks for the update!
The trigger spring seems to be problematic. Try an extra power trigger spring. Will give a more positive reset, and you won't have to worry about it being weaker than the stock spring and not working.
I can tell by handling Sig Sauer firearms.... Sig Sauer does not move and rack as smooth as a CZ or HK firearm!! This is a major difference in quality manufacturing!!😞😧
FCU wore out? Once again, Glock was 40 years ahead of its time with its design.
What's that got to so with this. Not a fanboy but just look at that gun, it looks like it's been practice drawn from a holster and dry fired 100,000 times.
Yea so far ahead of its time that Glock just switched their internals to match sigs with their new performance triggers. Good call bro
Glock had major problems in the early 90’s!
Moral of the story: Don't buy plastic Sigs (Unless its an SP2022, those are great).
Or buy Sigs that were built before they got the government contracts. Now they’re focused on quantity.
So it's easier for them to replace all the internals than tell you what the actual problem was.
As a sig xl owner, if Sig replaced all internal parts, all I can say is, this is the overall best ccw weapon I own and I hope you continue to train with and gain confidence with it for it's really a great choice.
Nothing made by man lasts forever.
At this point, and since they replaced both parts, I'm thinking it may have been a defective (ie worn out) engagement between the striker and the sear.
I have a brand new one that's doing this same thing. It's never been fired. The only way I can get it to dry fire is by bumping the slide.
@@Blakgunhow is it now? I just got one that is similar to this video except it’s more like a very heavy trigger on the last 1cm of pull and it fires when the trigger is pulled and when the slide is manually pulled back. No issue with the shaking aspects
@@manarazor4782 I tried the slide on a different lower and it works fine. Then I tried a different slide on that lower and it works fine. I believe it to be a tolerance stacking issue in the mechanism somewhere. I have some parts ordered that may fix it. If not then it's going back to Sig to see what they can do.
@@Blakgun dang. I’m hoping since mine will fire after you give it an extra 5lb of pull after hitting the last wall that there’s “extra” metal somewhere that can be worn out and fix itself
I will note that if the trigger is pulled with directional force to the left it cannot fire no matter how hard you pull it but a straight back pull or a pull to the right and it will fire🤷♂️
This is why I only use classic sigs
If this was a psa dagger all the comments would be hating on the QC at psa
Careful with how you word things in these situations. At time stamp 3:29 you said “every time you shake it, it shoots”, when that wasn’t what was happening. That statement implies that just having a chambered round and shaking it caused the firearm to discharge. The problem with that firearm was that when the trigger was depressed it failed to discharge, and upon shaking the firearm it would then discharge, all while keeping the trigger depressed. That’s quite different than “it goes off every time you shake it”.
Not trying to nitpick, because that is a serious malfunction, but being accurate with what was happening is important when providing the public with this type of information.
I am uploading a video on my channel, Harris Arms, talking about what I said here. I think it’s important to clarify in this situation.
Geez you must be fun at parties…Well we’re watching the video, it’s not audio only so we know what he meant.
@@societyceo If you didn’t watch his previous video, you might not know what he meant. I’ve never heard of such a problem with the p365xl after years. After hundreds of thousands upon thousands of rounds over the past 5 years, the P365 has been flawless for myself and others.
Nice observation. I know you give people the benefit of the doubt, but I’m perplexed by this problem having known dozens of P365 owners, as well as myself, never having any issues whatsoever. I’ve never even heard of this kind of issue. And I definitely don’t believe everything I hear.
@@ridgerunners my brothers regular OG 365 has this problem I didn’t believe him since he’s new to guns thought he was doing something wrong but when I tried sure enough it did it. And looking at the comments on part 1 of the video seems like it’s happening to more people, but people don’t have a platform to put it out there. Sux because I LOVE the macro.
I used to be a huge fan of Sig but they've had so many issues with their new releases that I'm just not interested anymore. Too bad, they were legendary in the day.
Here we have a gun that no one has a history on and no one knows what's been done to it or what has been going on with it and a guy that's making videos to trash Sig Sauer because that's the "thing to do in some peoples mind". and this guy here just want's to do anything to make some money off it all. Go sell marshmallows you may be more successful at it!
Bingo!
🤣🤣
I had the Same issue with my brand new never fired p365 x! I sent it back to sig and am now waiting to here back. I didn’t test it like you tho with the shake shot
Cops have them going off unintentionally, civilians have to shake them to fire. Who really knows, I don't trust a cop to be honest about a ND but my FFL sold me one for cost, $250 off retail. It seems awesome, fits better in my hand than a Hellcat, proportionately it looks better, love the trigger, dry fired it a lot of course, I want it to fail before I need it if that will ever happen. I certainly trust it to not go off by itself because it's striker fired and I use a holster. It's my first SIG handgun, got a couple Glocks too.
P320 not p365
You sent it through a FFL? Im sending my Five-Seven MKIII via UPS tomorrow. The whole pistol and it's okay. I'm not paying a FFL $80 ✌️
it must have been the bad striker or a spring.
It sounds to me that possibly a gun component had worn out due to the gun being well loved and the gun looks it. My guess is Sig decided to "refurbish" the gun and replace all internal components to ensure proper operation. I would not hesitate to carry that gun once I shot it and confirmed it functioned as expected. Just like anything mechanical if used enough times it will eventually wear out.
No gun should ever under absolutely any circumstance do what that gun did. No amount of wear and tear should have a gun not fire when the trigger is pulled but then fire when shook. My best guess is either the parts were wildly out of tolerance, a QC issue, or severe tolerance stacking, which is still a QC issue.
@@LawlessNateI don’t think it’s a QC issue. I work at a gun store and range, and this happens continuously with our inventory of 365 rentals. Once they get over 1000 rounds at some point it happens. They are all super well maintained on regular schedules. I love my 365 but working there has made me lose faith in it.
@@Ferrous_Bueller Agreed. A shaky design can be made to work OK....but places a lot more responsibility on parts being exactly right. A good design will allow for wear and parts having some dimensional tolerance and the Sig striker gun series is not looking like this to me. People LOVE a very light trigger...but making one is going to involve compromises that don't belong in a duty pistol IMHO. The fire control and safety parts in the Sig are tiny and frail, throw in some manufacturing tolerances and things can turn out bad. As good as the 200 series guns were....these striker guns just aren't in the same league.
Mine does the same thing brand new
These videos pushed me to look at shadow system cr920 instead
To each his own, and the Shadow Systems CR920 is a nice choice, but this issue shouldn’t cause anyone to shy away from the 365XL.
I wanted to love the CR920. The one I bought was very picky with ammo, to the point where it was consistently unreliable with anything but certain kinds. That was a deal breaker for me. After I sold it I started seeing other YT vids and reviews where they were having similar issues.
😂 bro, that gun has more issues than any sig that’s come out recently
@@pillcosby3949 like? I haven’t heard anything besides ftf on crappy ammo
that turd is worse.
Why wouldn't someone want to use this particular gun again? Any other pistol someone might buy would have a new FCU and trigger etc.
Rust… Sig knows about the rust issues with their guns and magazines. It’s not work the trouble to EDC one.
Should have gotten a p320.
Glock > Sig
It's hilarious to me that this one gun has entered internet lore as "proof that the p365 isn't drop safe"
Mondo's exact same thing brand new
@@jeepthang72 notice how it's still drop safe....
Lol. Overpriced, overhyped junk. Their QC went out the window years ago.
Bad videos like this might make it seem that way. This guy was very loose with his comments on a topic that requires accuracy.
Sig Sauer pistols are Taurus quality at HK prices.
@@chrisharris9710 I used a 229 for over a decade. We had all sorts of issues. Mag release buttons pushes their way through the aluminum frame. All sorts of breakage issues and rust. Rust was a real bitch especially when your job is 90% on the water.
NEVER trust a sig.. UNLESS it's a 30/40 year old 226/229 because PROBLEMS is what you'll have!!!! GET A GUN ((GLOCK)) & not a TOY.
I noticed that it's all the Glock fanboys that are saying this stuff.
Well he’s actually showing not just saying but ok.
One can almost notice patterns emerge. Every Sig owner I know have had zero an issue. Known lots of people who have switched from Glock to Sig and haven’t had any complaints, but the die hard fanboys can’t stand anyone else preferring anything other than Glock, and Sig is making products that many feel are superior. I think they all have their advantages but Glock guys always shit on everything else. A lot of us enjoy them all.
@@ridgerunners very true
My XL is not extracting now. Ughhh... A tad tired of this 365
Id have Sold it by now
I'm not surprised you got those comments. Sig fanboys are on a whole other level of denial and copium. They truly do gurgle the junk of Sig. Sig can never do wrong even if it happened to said fanboys. 🤣
I see you've recently come out of the closet. Congratulations 🎊 !
@@johnhatchel9681 lmao 😂😂😂
Hello
Sell it and get an M&P shield.
WRONG!!
I don’t think I can ever appendix a sig
My experience I have carried a 365 daily for 6 months. And I work a dirty physical job O issues my family has more than half a dozen 365s 0 issues with them. Have a macro to no issues. So far my glocks have had more issues than my sigs. Also a good friend of mine competes and runs min 1000 rounds per month more like 2k through his 320 no issues. I have personally seen more glocks with issues than sigs. Just my experience.
@@andershilmo1866 what issues have you had with glocks? Personally I have a 320 for competition. I carry a 19 and 48 with no issues on the range. The trigger on the sig is nice and crisp but rather the 3-4 Glock built in safeties if I’m carrying appendix
Sure all guns can have issues but try to find a video of a Glock doing something like this that’s dangerous or at least involving the firing pin going off, usually with glocks if something goes wrong it’s failure to feed or extract something like that.
@@societyceo most were mag/feeding issues. Mag release sticking which is irritating. I just haven’t seen seen the same with my or my family’s over half a dozen 365s. I get it though if people are more comfortable carrying a glock that’s fine. I do remember not so very long ago people saying glocks weren’t safe. And they had a few recalls themselves to.
Dude it has a safety block/plugger it can’t go home , unless trigger pulled, bet his block had a bur and then he pulled trigger shaked it and boom gets past bur fire
Its still not a Glock. Don't Sig yourself.
Dude people are so stupid. The next time people say something stupid ignore them.
Dangerous junk. My German made 226 is my favorite gun of all time. Had it since the nineties, has never once failed. It's getting old now, but ty the new stuff they make seems to be really bad. I heard they are being sued.
Any modular SIG....Thanks Army, Unreliable!!!!!!!!!!