Just recently found your channel and I absolutely love it so obviously subbed, I'm a Yorkshire lass in Haworth we have a lot of history here I wondered if you'd ever been here? love how you overlay where these crimes have happened, just goes to show what you think is a boring street now could hold some fascinating history. Great work. I look forward to watching all your vids, take care 🙏🏻
Hi, and thanks for the kind words of support and for joining our little community. We do have stories from.in and around Yorkshire and Haworth in particular. One has been done a few times already, but we hope to do it better - that of Lily Cove, the lady that jumped from a hot air balloon and tragically died in the process.
@DaysofHorror Thank you for the welcome, I love your work its all so fascinating looking into the past , apologies, I'm working my way through your vids and found one on Haworth, The Bronte Photograph explained, I will look for the one on Lily Cove it's an interesting story. Thank you for your time in telling us these stories that could easily been forgotten. Excellent work 👏
Loved the story. All i can add, is that i live in Lancashire and had an old uncle back then who was always at war with his neighbouring farmers - they all battled over land, money and property and in the main, hated each other - it was the norm back then.
Great video really enjoyed this wasn't a yong lad messing around someone had real intent being dark they could have mistaken for someone else and this could explain why they hang them selve many thanks jeff 😂😇
loved it well done chris and vicky what a team you are and a great way to end my monday night so interesting a real HOLMS AND WATSON case and it was nice to see you both on camera at the end have a good night all the best from old trev and christine a year younger than me xx
Aww thank you for your kind comments and I am glad you enjoyed watching. Yeah we do like to have a chat and share our thoughts on the stories as they always have you thinking what really did happen and why. Have a great week. 😊
It looks like an assassination? The weapon could not be a catapult, not 20 yards away and going through clothing and embedding the projectile in his shoulder. I suspect some form of hybrid crossbow with a tip designed to break off. Dark night and raining, the rest of the projectile may be picked up by the offender? The wall of silence is strange, is that due to fear of who killed him or was James Dawson not a liked man by the locals if he was a womaniser? A compelling case . Well presented and what a strange story.
Brilliant video this case always fascinates me as I knew people that lived around the area at the time of this crime. One lady I knew used to walk from Clitheroe to Hurst Green on her own late at night around the time of the murder and she used to smoke 2 cigarettes and talk to herself when near to the turn off for Bashall Eaves just incase the murderer was watching her. She thought she was safe if she was part of a pair!
It's one place we haven't ourselves ever been to. The Edisford Bridge we popped into during this story, the cleaner was on her own but allowed us to have a look inside.
The research is the best part for myself (Chris). But we both love visiting these places to bring them more to life and show you guys where they all took place.
Interesting video. We pass that area nearly every week. I did not know of this sad story. My friend's late husband had relatives that lived in Bashall Eaves.
@DaysofHorror I only mentioned to my friend yesterday that I had this story to watch, and she said to me that she knew who did it. Years ago, her late husband received a letter from a relative resident of Bashall Eaves naming the perpetrator. She didn't mention the name.
We were actually allowed to film a short segment the morning we did this video from inside the pub. The cleaner was in working away, and the pub was closed to the public, but the lady was so kind to allow us to film inside. Unfortunately, we didn't use that footage as the video was turning out to be too long as it was.
Brilliant! Recently found your videos and subscribed I’m just binge watching them at the moment. I do watch a lot of crime stories mostly from the states so showing stuff close to home is great, being a Lancastrian too I find them compelling. James Dawson it’s seems was in the East Lancashire regiment my great uncle was in the same regiment which is one of the regiment’s that amalgamated and became the regiment I served. Keep up the great work. Have you found any stories from Ossy? That’s where I’m originally from. Cheers.
@@DaysofHorrorI will certainly look forward to watching those when you get around to them, I’m being entertained by your great broadcasts from all over in the mean time❤
I remember watching the tv film when this mystery was first broadcast. 1979? I was amazed. I have never seen any update or shown on other crime investigations. The couple in the pub were central to the case. I seem to remember the cane/gun as described, was known about, and used by the perpetrator as a walking stick? . Thank you for the captivating descriptions and settings of each case. The Wallace case from the 1930’s in Liverpool concerns the guilt or innocence of William Wallace and the murder of his wife . He was found guilty but under appeal he was released. I have followed this case for years. Famous writers worldwide have written about it as the most intriguing unsolved case. This would certainly be of interest to you. Thank you.
I enjoyed the video thank especially as it's my neck of the woods. I remember the story being told locally as a young lad, not quite as much nowadays as everyone involved or living locally will have died like you said. Sorry if you already mentioned it on the video but do you know the whereabouts of Tommy Kenyon on that night? Was he at the pub as well and would he have had to go home along Back Lane also? That would go towards explaining the mistaken identity theory if so and somebody waiting for Tommy Kenyon by the farm gate. PS It's too late now for this video but if you ever wanted to take a photo for your podcast or film Bashall Hall in the future for any reason, the track goes right past the house and it is a public right of way.
We did a segment talking about Kenyon and his whereabouts, but that, along with another file, the sound was dire as the mic caught a lot of wind, so it was unsuitable. But Kenyon was one of the passengers in the second car. He was sat in the back as they drove past James. He and his mates were going to the Edisford Inn from the Red Pump just up the road. I should have added an overlay mentioning this.
Chris have you got the pacing correct? One good length pace is a yard so you should be 20 paces up that road. Think of a cricket pitch, and I play cricket, is 22 yards long which is miles shorter than the distance to the road I reckon. Just a thought. Fascinating story.
We say in the video its not exact, so we just went of small strides to give a rough idea of how far away James was from the gate posts. I cant imagine a catapult being strong enough to send a projectile through a farmers thick jacket, several layers of clothing and then deep into his shoulder. So I think we was much closer to the main road than he originally thought.
Another interesting story , you put a lot of research, facts and theories into your video’s. And so with all the facts you spoke of Im convinced it was Tommy Simpson who accidentally shot James Dawson by mistake identity. Thank you both for another true video 😊
What a very sad story...and how pretty convoluted the events could get. You two investigators do a very thorough job...i salute your investigation. How do you feel about doing more investigations on other murders from many years ago.... from other areas around you maybe ? As you intimated, the man you think was the perpetrator most likely is the culprit...there are always small cliques in small communities, and when they wish to hide events.... it is done and kept quiet sometimes, for all time.
In our videos, we visit the places where these stories all took place and if they are hard to get too, such as a street (for example) that may no longer be there, we then go to the cemeteries or graveyards where the victims are buried.
Well this is a real tangled web isnt it. Any one of the theories could be right. One thing im certain of, no way was a catapult used. Great work Chris and Vicky 🙂👍
Well researched and narrated. This adds or takes nothing away but the road where the cars were wasn't there in 1934. The cars that passed James must have used Back Lane.
I've just taken a look at old OS maps from the 1920s to 1940s and the road is there 🤔 I'll take another look later using another service, but I'm pretty sure that road was there back then. Plus the cars passing him where travelling from the direction of the Red Pump Inn, which was along that stretch of road but further up in the distance.
@@DaysofHorror I know the cars were coming from the direction of Bashall Eaves or Chaigley. In those days they would have to go through Bashall town. I've just checked a map published in 1947 and the short link road isn't shown.
@davepeel7546 strange how differing maps shows the road being there on one, but on others, it doesn't. We have one clearly showing a road in 1934, whereas one in 1930, the road isn't there 🤔 Bizarre.
James knew his shooter and didn't want to tell on them. His reward for this was his failure to get the wound properly treated in a prompt manner and thus his death. The morbidity was possibly from fabric shoved into his body by the projectile. Secondly, if the projectile from the dog was reused on James, that could have transmitted infectious material. There's a high probability that he could have lived if he'd gone immediately to hospital the following day.
We have had a quick look at this story today and found only a few articles to go on. It does seem a strange story though. If we can find more information, its one we will look into covering. Thanks for the tip!
@@DaysofHorror Yes, there isn't a lot of online information about this case. It is a well known story locally and within the surrounding areas because of the popularity of the farmer in the local community. The tragedy is in the sadness of the events that led to the murder. Most of the online posts about the farm and the brothers are from local people and their memories of knowing them or visiting the farm over the decades.
Thank you so much very much appreciated, but you already support us by watching, commenting and sharing our videos and we are blown away by this kind gesture. Thanks again Trevor and Christine. New videos are released weekly on a Monday night at 8.05pm 😊
Very thought provoking. But going back to when he was shot by the projectile. When I did my K53 driving test one of the things I remember was the lesson that if you drink your perception of distance is altered and the vehicles around you on the road are closer than you think. This could be the reason that the distance mentioned in the press is suspect. Another thing which I seriously wonder about is how a projectile shot so far away could only hit his shoulder. If as you have said that he would have been walking against driving rain and strong winds, there would have been enough resistance from the elements to cause the projectile to be badly affected by the gravitational pull of the earth. The velocity of the weapons mentioned would maybe (I would need an expert to confirm this) would be markedly different. Surely an object shot from a catapult would be slower than the same object being shot from a gun or similar ordinance. So, if he was hit as such a large distance between himself and the perpetrator the attacker must have shot well above his shoulder for it in the mentioned elements to reach its eventual target. However, there is I suppose the possibility that the attacker was actually aiming for his head. I think it is very unfair to label the suicide victim as the attacker when at the time nothing was proven. His terrible financial situation as well as his daughter being in the family way could have just been too much for him and possibly affected him so badly that he lost all hope of recovering from his problems. We honestly don't know what emotional and psychological trauma he went through. He himself is probably haunting the area right now. But one thing does make me very sad. James worked as a stretcher bearer in a vicious war. He would have seen the results of the war in the terrible injuries suffered by the other soldiers. He should have had a very good idea that if a bullet wound or something similar is not immediately treated, sterilized and the shrapnel or bullets removed that gangrene very quickly sets in. What a pity that he did not think of that. I researched my grandfather's experiences in the 1st world war and this was often mentioned in letters from other soldiers. May he rest in peace.
As most farmers had shotguns then and access to the powder to make shells for shooting and all that. I think the weapon is a home made piece with a fairly low velocity and bad powder. With the projectile you explained, crudley made and probably the barrel also, its possible to make a weapon which would be not loud, not really that accurate, but enough power to penetrate an inch or so. So infection would be the way of death,as it was left too long, just my experience with firearms opinion. Great vid guys.
Thanks once again for a very interesting story. It doesn't surprise me that the case went cold, since there was no forensic evidence collected except the man made instrument taken out his body. No witnesses who saw anything. Very funny that James Dawson's dog was also killed. Funny that Tommy Simpson took his own life, could be that he couldn't live with his conscience. Then again it could have been that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. May James Dawson's soul R.I.P. 🙏🙏🙏 Thanks again for sharing 👍👍
My goodness what a lot of information to this story Well done Chris & Vicky for all your research on this story I do think James Dawson was an innocent victim & the “bullet” was meant for Tommy Kenyon,Simpson couldn’t live with the guilt & took his own life A brilliant bit of research guys 👏🏻👏🏻
At 20 yards from the gates, even with the best shot in the world, the attacker would have a problem seeing James, even at 20 feet it would not have been easy to aim accurately in a very dark night.
Its not a catapult even at point blank range with the most powerful catapult it would not go through your clothes i think it is a modified bullet made by someone who knows about guns and owns the gun that killed him the bullet is made from steel to rule out the langs and groves of the rifles rifling so as not to be traced back because the bullet was made by hand it would never be a perfect fit for the barrel so it would not discharge like a real bullet its got floors in it and would not seal the same and would change the sound when being fired i would say farmers dispute and the hung man the culprit
Ballistics on a wet and windy day, a shot from the last distance would have been someone who shot in a club. It had to be someone who could use a gun and know about reloading etc. To fit a piece of metal like you say it is into a barrel would be dangerous. Therefore it is likely to be a catapult. Could someone else have been in the bushes and he didn't see him. Anyone could have worked with a piece of metal like that from a teenager to a grown man. It is difficult not knowing who he was seeing and who else was in the mix. A very interesting case in an area I know quite well. Lots of love from NZ keep up the good work.
It's interesting as James said it was a clicking sound, which led detectives into saying it was either a catapult or an air-cane that had been used, as there was no sound like if it had been shot from a rifle or pistol.
For a direct hit, I reckon it was either a very bright moon that night or the shooter had been a trained sniper in the army. It must have been pitch black on that lane.
From all accounts, it was a dark, miserable night with plenty of wind and rain. We reckon James was much closer to the road than he probably realised and made it much easier for his attacker to strike with ease.
Loved this true crime story, and how you pieced it all together was immense. I think you have the correct theory! I think Tommy Simpson meant to hurt James Dawson, and I doubt it was mistaken identity. Seems a coincidence his dog was found on Simpson's land with a similar wound. Almost like he wanted to make James suffer before he went for him! And no coincidence he committed suicide not long after.
I wonder if James Dawson is related to my family. Im a Daswon and come from a large farming background from littleborough and then Marland and Norden, Rochdale. My niece did a family tree but only names and dates no stories and for me its all about the stories x
also are you anywhere near the trow ghyll skeleton area? no one is talking about it and minus a code i think it as intriguing as somerton beach man! this is a few years after the end of ww2 and a huge international network of SOE recruits would be out of work and possibly not adjusting back into the 9 to 5. police don't give much detail but his clothing labels and the brands of his few possessions would be useful. only one small web article i could find suggested that he had been walled into the pot hole. if, when, where he was buried would be interesting too.
@MsVanorak we are in driving distance to this area (Clapham), and somewhere we maybe visiting on our road trip next year, so keep an eye out. Thanks for watching and the mention of the skeleton remains. 😊
Fascinating story. Imo the weapon had to be a long arm. A shot at the distance couldn't have been done with a hand gun, it would have been extremely lucky. Was it the case that people back then made their own ammunition? People who load their own ammo, I believe can load rounds so they are quite powerful, but I don't know if you can use reo. Still a good shot in the conditions at the time. I don't think it could be a catapult, because of the conditions at the time. I believe it had to be a rifle, used by someone who could shoot
hi great delivry and enjoyed the story .. I have only one theory about the case and its on the delivery of the bullet . i had quite a lot of expericnce of firing guns when younger and alos air rifels an catupults etc as is had and interest in hunting when young . NOW . There is no way in my opinion that the projectile that would have had to penetrate the coat and under jacket of the victim was fired from either a catupult or air rifle . it would have had to be have fired with force and from a gun . Y es a proper gun whether made form metal .lead of other it would have had to fired at force from ever twety yards to penetrate the coats. and bury itsel in the body of the man . no doubt whatsoever ..however done . by a silenced muzzel of ever other . it was fired using powder the only other was would be if the perpetrator got close enought to drive it into the man lile on top of a spear . and this would also explain why the dog died and no projectile was found in the dogs case . thanks for the story . i was glude to the thing .
It was always mentioned that perhaps James knew who the attacker was and it does make you wonder IF it was indeed a more powerful weapon and one that would have made a louder sound, but james didn't mention this because he knew who it was and for some reason was protecting them?
Great video Chris and vickie. I could be wrong im no sherlock Holmes😂 but i think its a disgruntled husband to a lady he was seeing he was an handsome young man. Poor dog he didn't do anything to anybody
lt sounds like a crossbow round, possibly coated with garlic or some other poison. Was he, by any chance, related to Lord Dawson of Penn? Also was it 1934 or 1938 as indicated in your header?
Well spotted with the error in the headline. That's changed now. As for the projectile, it was removed from James back and was a homemade bullet shaped object. It was around 1cm to 2cm in length. There's never been anything mentioned about poisons or garlic being used as far as I'm aware 🤔 I think the infection came from the old, metal rod that was used, in that it could have been used or just left around outside in all elements of weather.
@@DaysofHorror Thanks. Not being a smartarse - promise. The King was murdered in 1936 so the name association bears little reference in regard to motive. Crossbows or smooth bore shotguns and air guns can accurately shoot such projectiles over the distance you have measured. My suggestion of poison is because of the wound being less likely to be fatal without it. Good video. Much thanks.
@vbprogman I didn't read anything bad into your comment 😆 It's better when people do comment on the videos, and it helps people learn more, so we can only thank you.
Thanks for commenting, Maurice. We are loving how involved all you kind people are in this story. It's good to see people coming up with ideas, and their own theories. Thanks so much 😀
Would be more enjoyable if there was not so much rinse and repeat in the narration. Of course, a degree of going back over the story here and there is required as a 'sum up'. However, too much risks losing the interest of the viewers.. As in, you've told us that already, please get on with it. 👍
@DaysofHorror I wish you the very best of luck.. The problem, if there is one is this.. People tend to have a much shorter attention span these days. A video of say, 15 to 20 minutes is about what most people will stay the course with. Unless of course it's one for a niche interest audience. Anyway, thanks for your response. All the best.. Rupert von der Rhine. 👍
Thanks
Many thanks Victor 😊 We really do appreciate your kind support.
How bizarre that 3 siblings on the gravestone all died on the 22nd of the month! Loved this video and love your channel ❤
Many thanks Katey. If I remember rightly, I think Vickie spotted this, too, the dates. It's bizarre!
Just recently found your channel and I absolutely love it so obviously subbed, I'm a Yorkshire lass in Haworth we have a lot of history here I wondered if you'd ever been here? love how you overlay where these crimes have happened, just goes to show what you think is a boring street now could hold some fascinating history. Great work. I look forward to watching all your vids, take care 🙏🏻
Hi, and thanks for the kind words of support and for joining our little community. We do have stories from.in and around Yorkshire and Haworth in particular. One has been done a few times already, but we hope to do it better - that of Lily Cove, the lady that jumped from a hot air balloon and tragically died in the process.
@DaysofHorror Thank you for the welcome, I love your work its all so fascinating looking into the past , apologies, I'm working my way through your vids and found one on Haworth, The Bronte Photograph explained, I will look for the one on Lily Cove it's an interesting story. Thank you for your time in telling us these stories that could easily been forgotten. Excellent work 👏
Loved the story. All i can add, is that i live in Lancashire and had an old uncle back then who was always at war with his neighbouring farmers - they all battled over land, money and property and in the main, hated each other - it was the norm back then.
Yeah we have heard this was the case back then. Thanks for watching and commenting Robert.
Great video really enjoyed this wasn't a yong lad messing around someone had real intent being dark they could have mistaken for someone else and this could explain why they hang them selve many thanks jeff 😂😇
It's sad that he went off to war and survived those horrors only to die this way 😢
So true...😢
Same thought..😢
Great research into another fascinating local story. Thanks Chris & Vickie. 👍
Many thanks Paul. We tried to fit most of it it but there was more we could have added, but the video would have been much longer.
Thanks Paul for watching and commenting, glad you enjoyed 😊
loved it well done chris and vicky what a team you are and a great way to end my monday night so interesting a real HOLMS AND WATSON case and it was nice to see you both on camera at the end have a good night all the best from old trev and christine a year younger than me xx
Aww thank you for your kind comments and I am glad you enjoyed watching. Yeah we do like to have a chat and share our thoughts on the stories as they always have you thinking what really did happen and why. Have a great week. 😊
This case sounds exactly like the cases Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote about in his Sherlock Holmes books. 😄
@@exactam0it does 😅😅
It looks like an assassination? The weapon could not be a catapult, not 20 yards away and going through clothing and embedding the projectile in his shoulder. I suspect some form of hybrid crossbow with a tip designed to break off. Dark night and raining, the rest of the projectile may be picked up by the offender? The wall of silence is strange, is that due to fear of who killed him or was James Dawson not a liked man by the locals if he was a womaniser? A compelling case . Well presented and what a strange story.
Thanks 👍
Brilliant video this case always fascinates me as I knew people that lived around the area at the time of this crime. One lady I knew used to walk from Clitheroe to Hurst Green on her own late at night around the time of the murder and she used to smoke 2 cigarettes and talk to herself when near to the turn off for Bashall Eaves just incase the murderer was watching her. She thought she was safe if she was part of a pair!
Thanks for commenting and glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for your support 😊
Fascinating story. I remember staying at the Red Pump Inn quite a few years ago. xx
It's one place we haven't ourselves ever been to. The Edisford Bridge we popped into during this story, the cleaner was on her own but allowed us to have a look inside.
Very Sad Story ...if only he took the doctors advise Rest in Peace James..
I know 😢
Very interesting and detailed and so sad. It must take a lot of research to make these videos. Thanks for another great story ❤
The research is the best part for myself (Chris). But we both love visiting these places to bring them more to life and show you guys where they all took place.
@DaysofHorror Being at the locations is definitely my favourite part of your videos.
It feels like we are transported back to the actual event.
Interesting video. We pass that area nearly every week. I did not know of this sad story. My friend's late husband had relatives that lived in Bashall Eaves.
We came across this story a few years ago, and it's always been one that's fascinated us both. So many twists and turns.
@DaysofHorror I only mentioned to my friend yesterday that I had this story to watch, and she said to me that she knew who did it. Years ago, her late husband received a letter from a relative resident of Bashall Eaves naming the perpetrator. She didn't mention the name.
@gingermolly234 that adds a little more now to the story and, again, more intrigue 🤔
I live in Clitheroe, we go in the edisford bridge pub regularly. Great content.
We were actually allowed to film a short segment the morning we did this video from inside the pub. The cleaner was in working away, and the pub was closed to the public, but the lady was so kind to allow us to film inside. Unfortunately, we didn't use that footage as the video was turning out to be too long as it was.
@@DaysofHorror It's a nice pub,great in the summer weather to sit outside either the front of it or the back.
Thank you Stuart 😊
Brilliant! Recently found your videos and subscribed I’m just binge watching them at the moment. I do watch a lot of crime stories mostly from the states so showing stuff close to home is great, being a Lancastrian too I find them compelling. James Dawson it’s seems was in the East Lancashire regiment my great uncle was in the same regiment which is one of the regiment’s that amalgamated and became the regiment I served. Keep up the great work. Have you found any stories from Ossy? That’s where I’m originally from. Cheers.
We have two stories from Oswaldtwistle we haven't yet done. Both early 1900s 😀
@@DaysofHorrorI will certainly look forward to watching those when you get around to them, I’m being entertained by your great broadcasts from all over in the mean time❤
Glad to have you on board, thanks for watching and commenting, appreciate your support 😊
Another great story most enjoyable thanks for sharing looking forward to Mondays episode 😊
Thank you ❤
I remember watching the tv film when this mystery was first broadcast. 1979? I was amazed. I have never seen any update or shown on other crime investigations. The couple in the pub were central to the case. I seem to remember the cane/gun as described, was known about, and used by the perpetrator as a walking stick? . Thank you for the captivating descriptions and settings of each case. The Wallace case from the 1930’s in Liverpool concerns the guilt or innocence of William Wallace and the murder of his wife . He was found guilty but under appeal he was released. I have followed this case for years. Famous writers worldwide have written about it as the most intriguing unsolved case. This would certainly be of interest to you. Thank you.
Thanks for info, something we will look into Linda. Thanks for watching, remembering and commenting, from Vickie & Chris
GOOGLE : WILLIAM HERBERT WALLACE AND JULIA WALLACE. ☺
I grew up in a small town. The secrets of small towns are interesting indeed.
I bet! 😮
I remeber back I think late 70's a BBC or Itv into this thanks Chris
ITV I think it was on, back in 1979.
Was just wondering would he have meant 20 ft from where the shooter stood.
I enjoyed the video thank especially as it's my neck of the woods. I remember the story being told locally as a young lad, not quite as much nowadays as everyone involved or living locally will have died like you said. Sorry if you already mentioned it on the video but do you know the whereabouts of Tommy Kenyon on that night? Was he at the pub as well and would he have had to go home along Back Lane also? That would go towards explaining the mistaken identity theory if so and somebody waiting for Tommy Kenyon by the farm gate.
PS It's too late now for this video but if you ever wanted to take a photo for your podcast or film Bashall Hall in the future for any reason, the track goes right past the house and it is a public right of way.
We did a segment talking about Kenyon and his whereabouts, but that, along with another file, the sound was dire as the mic caught a lot of wind, so it was unsuitable. But Kenyon was one of the passengers in the second car. He was sat in the back as they drove past James. He and his mates were going to the Edisford Inn from the Red Pump just up the road. I should have added an overlay mentioning this.
Chris have you got the pacing correct? One good length pace is a yard so you should be 20 paces up that road. Think of a cricket pitch, and I play cricket, is 22 yards long which is miles shorter than the distance to the road I reckon. Just a thought. Fascinating story.
We say in the video its not exact, so we just went of small strides to give a rough idea of how far away James was from the gate posts. I cant imagine a catapult being strong enough to send a projectile through a farmers thick jacket, several layers of clothing and then deep into his shoulder. So I think we was much closer to the main road than he originally thought.
@@DaysofHorrorno definitely not a catapult couldn’t do that
Another interesting story , you put a lot of research, facts and theories into your video’s. And so with all the facts you spoke of Im convinced it was Tommy Simpson who accidentally shot James Dawson by mistake identity. Thank you both for another true video 😊
And thank you Sue for your continued support, we really do appreciate it 😊
I'm here because of 'The Encyclopedia of Forensic Science, Brian Lane, Pages 260 to 262 (Case Study, The Silent Assassin)
What a very sad story...and how pretty convoluted the events could get. You two investigators do a very thorough job...i salute your investigation. How do you feel about doing more investigations on other murders from many years ago.... from other areas around you maybe ? As you intimated, the man you think was the perpetrator most likely is the culprit...there are always small cliques in small communities, and when they wish to hide events.... it is done and kept quiet sometimes, for all time.
In our videos, we visit the places where these stories all took place and if they are hard to get too, such as a street (for example) that may no longer be there, we then go to the cemeteries or graveyards where the victims are buried.
Well this is a real tangled web isnt it. Any one of the theories could be right. One thing im certain of, no way was a catapult used.
Great work Chris and Vicky 🙂👍
Brilliant work guys.
Many thanks Leigh. We can't believe this one has taken off so well!
@@DaysofHorror I used to live near the Edisford pub and cycle those lanes!
Thank you Leigh. 😊
What about a crossbow. He said he heard clicking
I think the doctors and police ruled that out due to the wound and how it looked. I check our notes and see if I can find that info.
Well researched and narrated. This adds or takes nothing away but the road where the cars were wasn't there in 1934. The cars that passed James must have used Back Lane.
I've just taken a look at old OS maps from the 1920s to 1940s and the road is there 🤔 I'll take another look later using another service, but I'm pretty sure that road was there back then. Plus the cars passing him where travelling from the direction of the Red Pump Inn, which was along that stretch of road but further up in the distance.
@@DaysofHorror I know the cars were coming from the direction of Bashall Eaves or Chaigley. In those days they would have to go through Bashall town. I've just checked a map published in 1947 and the short link road isn't shown.
@davepeel7546 strange how differing maps shows the road being there on one, but on others, it doesn't. We have one clearly showing a road in 1934, whereas one in 1930, the road isn't there 🤔 Bizarre.
James knew his shooter and didn't want to tell on them. His reward for this was his failure to get the wound properly treated in a prompt manner and thus his death.
The morbidity was possibly from fabric shoved into his body by the projectile. Secondly, if the projectile from the dog was reused on James, that could have transmitted infectious material. There's a high probability that he could have lived if he'd gone immediately to hospital the following day.
Totally agree with these comments, very plausible 😊
The Ted and Harry Bostock case in Upholland near Wigan was a creepy, yet sad series of events ending in murder.
We have had a quick look at this story today and found only a few articles to go on. It does seem a strange story though. If we can find more information, its one we will look into covering. Thanks for the tip!
@@DaysofHorror Yes, there isn't a lot of online information about this case. It is a well known story locally and within the surrounding areas because of the popularity of the farmer in the local community. The tragedy is in the sadness of the events that led to the murder. Most of the online posts about the farm and the brothers are from local people and their memories of knowing them or visiting the farm over the decades.
Thanks!
Many MANY thanks Trevor (and Christine) 🤩 This is so kind of you. It will go towards a new camera we are investing in!
Thank you so much very much appreciated, but you already support us by watching, commenting and sharing our videos and we are blown away by this kind gesture. Thanks again Trevor and Christine. New videos are released weekly on a Monday night at 8.05pm 😊
Very thought provoking. But going back to when he was shot by the projectile. When I did my K53 driving test one of the things I remember was the lesson that if you drink your perception of distance is altered and the vehicles around you on the road are closer than you think. This could be the reason that the distance mentioned in the press is suspect.
Another thing which I seriously wonder about is how a projectile shot so far away could only hit his shoulder. If as you have said that he would have been walking against driving rain and strong winds, there would have been enough resistance from the elements to cause the projectile to be badly affected by the gravitational pull of the earth. The velocity of the weapons mentioned would maybe (I would need an expert to confirm this) would be markedly different. Surely an object shot from a catapult would be slower than the same object being shot from a gun or similar ordinance. So, if he was hit as such a large distance between himself and the perpetrator the attacker must have shot well above his shoulder for it in the mentioned elements to reach its eventual target. However, there is I suppose the possibility that the attacker was actually aiming for his head.
I think it is very unfair to label the suicide victim as the attacker when at the time nothing was proven. His terrible financial situation as well as his daughter being in the family way could have just been too much for him and possibly affected him so badly that he lost all hope of recovering from his problems. We honestly don't know what emotional and psychological trauma he went through. He himself is probably haunting the area right now.
But one thing does make me very sad. James worked as a stretcher bearer in a vicious war. He would have seen the results of the war in the terrible injuries suffered by the other soldiers. He should have had a very good idea that if a bullet wound or something similar is not immediately treated, sterilized and the shrapnel or bullets removed that gangrene very quickly sets in. What a pity that he did not think of that. I researched my grandfather's experiences in the 1st world war and this was often mentioned in letters from other soldiers.
May he rest in peace.
This is such a great read with great comments. Thanks for sharing these thoughts.
😊
As most farmers had shotguns then and access to the powder to make shells for shooting and all that. I think the weapon is a home made piece with a fairly low velocity and bad powder. With the projectile you explained, crudley made and probably the barrel also, its possible to make a weapon which would be not loud, not really that accurate, but enough power to penetrate an inch or so. So infection would be the way of death,as it was left too long, just my experience with firearms opinion. Great vid guys.
Nice One Guy,s
❤
Thanks once again for a very interesting story. It doesn't surprise me that the case went cold, since there was no forensic evidence collected except the man made instrument taken out his body. No witnesses who saw anything. Very funny that James Dawson's dog was also killed. Funny that Tommy Simpson took his own life, could be that he couldn't live with his conscience. Then again it could have been that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. May James Dawson's soul R.I.P. 🙏🙏🙏
Thanks again for sharing 👍👍
Yes it does make you wonder doesn't it. Thanks for your support as always. Glad you enjoyed 😊
Is that Pendle Hill in the background?
Pendle Hill isn't that far away from Bashall Eaves, but I'd need to go back through the footage again just to see.
My goodness what a lot of information to this story
Well done Chris & Vicky for all your research on this story
I do think James Dawson was an innocent victim & the “bullet” was meant for Tommy Kenyon,Simpson couldn’t live with the guilt & took his own life
A brilliant bit of research guys 👏🏻👏🏻
Yep agree I don't think it was for James imo.
At 20 yards from the gates, even with the best shot in the world, the attacker would have a problem seeing James, even at 20 feet it would not have been easy to aim accurately in a very dark night.
Thanks for commenting Janette, we just covered the story as it was recorded along with the distance of the shot. It was a strange case/story.
Well done guys I've really enjoyed watching your new videos today keep up with a good work guys can't wait to see more X👍🤗
😊 thanks
Its not a catapult even at point blank range with the most powerful catapult it would not go through your clothes i think it is a modified bullet made by someone who knows about guns and owns the gun that killed him the bullet is made from steel to rule out the langs and groves of the rifles rifling so as not to be traced back because the bullet was made by hand it would never be a perfect fit for the barrel so it would not discharge like a real bullet its got floors in it and would not seal the same and would change the sound when being fired i would say farmers dispute and the hung man the culprit
Ballistics on a wet and windy day, a shot from the last distance would have been someone who shot in a club. It had to be someone who could use a gun and know about reloading etc. To fit a piece of metal like you say it is into a barrel would be dangerous. Therefore it is likely to be a catapult. Could someone else have been in the bushes and he didn't see him. Anyone could have worked with a piece of metal like that from a teenager to a grown man. It is difficult not knowing who he was seeing and who else was in the mix. A very interesting case in an area I know quite well. Lots of love from NZ keep up the good work.
It's interesting as James said it was a clicking sound, which led detectives into saying it was either a catapult or an air-cane that had been used, as there was no sound like if it had been shot from a rifle or pistol.
Very unusual story. Love your channel♥
Thank you, we both appreciate that type of comment. Have a nice evening, Vickie
Thank you for yoir support, we really appreciate it 😊
For a direct hit, I reckon it was either a very bright moon that night or the shooter had been a trained sniper in the army.
It must have been pitch black on that lane.
From all accounts, it was a dark, miserable night with plenty of wind and rain. We reckon James was much closer to the road than he probably realised and made it much easier for his attacker to strike with ease.
@DaysofHorror Yeah, I agree. There's no way he could have seen him well enough from a distance like that.
Loved this true crime story, and how you pieced it all together was immense. I think you have the correct theory! I think Tommy Simpson meant to hurt James Dawson, and I doubt it was mistaken identity. Seems a coincidence his dog was found on Simpson's land with a similar wound. Almost like he wanted to make James suffer before he went for him! And no coincidence he committed suicide not long after.
It's like something from an Agatha Chrstie novel, isn't it 🤔
@DaysofHorror It is! I'm not sure why James hesitated on getting the bullet type taken out of his shoulder. That was a bad move!
I wonder if James Dawson is related to my family. Im a Daswon and come from a large farming background from littleborough and then Marland and Norden, Rochdale. My niece did a family tree but only names and dates no stories and for me its all about the stories x
Ooh you should do your family tree Hazel and let us know 😊
@@Daysofhorror-vickie thanks for that. My niece did it. I'll have to find it when we move xx
We both wait to see what you find out...
Nice to hear you use imperial feet & yards, not the dreaded metric system!
👍😊
Good point!
@@Daysofhorror-vickie The case of Babbacombe John Lee is always worth re-visiting.
@@michaelhiggs8657 noted in the diary 👍
@@Daysofhorror-vickie I live there. Not a great deal about it in local pubs. 1 photo in the Dolphin, St Marychurch.
I always believed it was a pump air rifle or a homemade pump Action weapon
😊
air rifle makes very little noise
also are you anywhere near the trow ghyll skeleton area? no one is talking about it and minus a code i think it as intriguing as somerton beach man! this is a few years after the end of ww2 and a huge international network of SOE recruits would be out of work and possibly not adjusting back into the 9 to 5. police don't give much detail but his clothing labels and the brands of his few possessions would be useful. only one small web article i could find suggested that he had been walled into the pot hole. if, when, where he was buried would be interesting too.
@MsVanorak we are in driving distance to this area (Clapham), and somewhere we maybe visiting on our road trip next year, so keep an eye out. Thanks for watching and the mention of the skeleton remains. 😊
Fascinating story. Imo the weapon had to be a long arm. A shot at the distance couldn't have been done with a hand gun, it would have been extremely lucky. Was it the case that people back then made their own ammunition? People who load their own ammo, I believe can load rounds so they are quite powerful, but I don't know if you can use reo. Still a good shot in the conditions at the time. I don't think it could be a catapult, because of the conditions at the time. I believe it had to be a rifle, used by someone who could shoot
Definitely the culprit was good with firearms... thanks for watching
Hello guys im waiting 🤗
Hi Liz - not long now 🙂
hi great delivry and enjoyed the story .. I have only one theory about the case and its on the delivery of the bullet . i had quite a lot of expericnce of firing guns when younger and alos air rifels an catupults etc as is had and interest in hunting when young . NOW . There is no way in my opinion that the projectile that would have had to penetrate the coat and under jacket of the victim was fired from either a catupult or air rifle . it would have had to be have fired with force and from a gun . Y es a proper gun whether made form metal .lead of other it would have had to fired at force from ever twety yards to penetrate the coats. and bury itsel in the body of the man . no doubt whatsoever ..however done . by a silenced muzzel of ever other . it was fired using powder the only other was would be if the perpetrator got close enought to drive it into the man lile on top of a spear . and this would also explain why the dog died and no projectile was found in the dogs case . thanks for the story . i was glude to the thing .
It was always mentioned that perhaps James knew who the attacker was and it does make you wonder IF it was indeed a more powerful weapon and one that would have made a louder sound, but james didn't mention this because he knew who it was and for some reason was protecting them?
Poor James I think it was a mistaken identity by the murderer (Tommy Simpson) thank you for the story it was very interesting as usual 👏👏👏👏👏👏
I'm with you on this..😊
Great video Chris and vickie. I could be wrong im no sherlock Holmes😂 but i think its a disgruntled husband to a lady he was seeing he was an handsome young man. Poor dog he didn't do anything to anybody
I know poor dog. Thanks for watching
Thanks for watching Emma, yeah could be, and yeah why the dog 😢
It was a poacher cane after the cane was taken to Whalley nab
I think that's what Tommy Kenyon was talking about, it being a cane. He says along with the poker, it was taken to Whalley to be hidden.
lt sounds like a crossbow round, possibly coated with garlic or some other poison. Was he, by any chance, related to Lord Dawson of Penn? Also was it 1934 or 1938 as indicated in your header?
Well spotted with the error in the headline. That's changed now. As for the projectile, it was removed from James back and was a homemade bullet shaped object. It was around 1cm to 2cm in length. There's never been anything mentioned about poisons or garlic being used as far as I'm aware 🤔 I think the infection came from the old, metal rod that was used, in that it could have been used or just left around outside in all elements of weather.
@@DaysofHorror Thanks. Not being a smartarse - promise. The King was murdered in 1936 so the name association bears little reference in regard to motive. Crossbows or smooth bore shotguns and air guns can accurately shoot such projectiles over the distance you have measured. My suggestion of poison is because of the wound being less likely to be fatal without it. Good video. Much thanks.
@vbprogman I didn't read anything bad into your comment 😆 It's better when people do comment on the videos, and it helps people learn more, so we can only thank you.
I imagine. It was an. Air cane.
Thanks for commenting, Maurice. We are loving how involved all you kind people are in this story. It's good to see people coming up with ideas, and their own theories. Thanks so much 😀
Hello everyone
Hello you, hope your well 😊
@@Daysofhorror-vickie yer getting there Rick's been ill lately with tummy flu bless him but slowly getting back to normal
Hello all 😊
You have a nice Lady wife who helps making all these history Videos.
Many thanks Ronnie!
Thank you for noticing 😂
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Thanks Andrea. Always appreciate your support 😊
Seems the folks at the end, know alot about it ?
Yep, this was filmed in 1979 and it does have a bit of a sinister vibe to it. The locals really do seem to be a close-knit community.
Could it have been a blow pipe?
That was never recorded in any papers/articles so unsure.
Sounds like Simpson was the guilty one, more than likely wrong place wrong time.
Totally agree 👍
Would be more enjoyable if there was not so much rinse and repeat in the narration. Of course, a degree of going back over the story here and there is required as a 'sum up'. However, too much risks losing the interest of the viewers.. As in, you've told us that already, please get on with it. 👍
Thanks for commenting, but we are doing quite well with the channel and how people are interacting, so we will carry on as usual 👍
@DaysofHorror I wish you the very best of luck.. The problem, if there is one is this.. People tend to have a much shorter attention span these days. A video of say, 15 to 20 minutes is about what most people will stay the course with. Unless of course it's one for a niche interest audience. Anyway, thanks for your response. All the best.. Rupert von der Rhine. 👍
Like you Chris think Tommy Kenyon was the intended target- seems like Simpson was the murderer to me- poor dog though🏴
Yeah I too (vickie) think wrong person got shot that night. Thanks for watching
Totally agree, and why the dog 😢