What Makes a Leader?
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- Опубліковано 19 тра 2017
- More and more individuals follow the exile. Kreia explains that the exile contains a trait very similar to how Revan commanded such loyalty from the soldiers that followed him.
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#StarWars #KOTOR2 #Expandeduniverse - Ігри
Kreia: “ I speak with a voice that does not move others”. Trust me, you moved a whole generation into playing this game and watching clips of you on UA-cam with voice alone. Best character of all time
It's foreshadowing: no matter what ending the player chose, they will never follow Kreia's teachings
That's not true, in the cut content the player can choose to stay on Malachor V just as Kreia intended.
you just said it: cut content, something not deemed fit for the final release
No, it was cut due to time constraints set by the publisher. The game is unfinished. The restored content mod, which includes the several original ending choices and various additional bits of content throughout the game, is what should be considered the true final release of the game. It's the closest to the developers' original intentions.
The time restraint was due to a christmas release I think. But even in the base game, it's heavily implied that the Exile takes Kriea's teachings to heart, and in the legends canon, the Exile is Meetra and follows Revan (and bastilla I think) until she died.
“I am but a mirror, who’s purpose is to show you what your own eyes can not yet see” quotes like this is why Kreia is one of my favorite characters
(1:26)
*whose
Real Star Wars.
Factual mother fucking facts
I reject every Star Wars and Indiana Jones after George Lucas sold LucasArts.
@@jamesvinson3998do you like the prequels? Genuine question
Or from "adult men"
Kreia doesn't give herself enough credit.
she really doesn't.
Because many SW "fans" only cares about the movies they dont care about the old EU
Actually she does, her whole thing is that she believes her hypocritical teachings are supreme, and the whole reason to retrain you is to prove that to both the jedi and the sith. She's chasing the dream that is revan, she idolises him, everything he represents, because she is part of what made him, and wants to remake him.
@@rileyboy10 in a way, part of Kreia’s tragedy is that she’s effectively like someone who peaked in high school... she spent decades, and WILL spend her twilight years... chasing what once was, and never could be again.
@@JB-xl2jc Thats a good way of explaining it yeah. Althought she never realised Revan becoming what he was, was never down to her teachings in total. Maybe to a degree yes, but overall as she herself states. "Revan had many teachers."
Kreia is too good for Disney canon
Disney Can't handle characters like Kreia or Revan
They will destroy everything of these characters, until they are great no longer
Mickey: “Ahhoo, this’ll make a fine addition to my collection!”
Me: “That joke was contrived.”
Mickey: “And you’ll make a fine example to the other dessenters-I mean haters, to the Galaxy’s Edge cafeteria with him!”
*Disneyland security guard dressed as a stormtrooper drags me off, screaming into the dungeon.*
Mickey: “They will all learn to love the new sequels, we’ll put Revan, Bane, Kyle Katarn, Rex, any goddamn character to put those fat asses in movie seats, and they’ll stuff their faces full of artery clogging buttered popcorn to remember all the good times they had knowing those characters, all while I plow Minnie on top of a pile of fanboy money AhooAAHOOOAHAHAHA!!”
@@undulycriticalobserver2510 LOL
Disney thinks so too. EA + Bioware certainly did. The stuff in TOR was offensive.
@@condedepiamonte93 Even Bioware did this with SWTOR already, Kreia and Revan are charicatures of what they once were.
This is just another reason to love Kreia. She has so much wisdom, yet she comes off so rude to such a point that the player(and by extension the Exile) don't tend to understand her lessons. She was specifically *designed* to be a bad teacher, and she herself knows that it is one of her flaws. "I am no leader. I will not speak with a voice that will move others. I speak with a passion that goes unheard."
Kreia is the only teacher in star wars that taught me lessons that i never thought of before so deeply, even as an adult.
Yoda was by no means inferior to her, but his lessons are simple enough as long as you're not a psychopath.
It took me roughly 5 playthroughs of this game to truly understand what her core belief was that defines her. The fact that without conflict, life cannot exist. Conflict builds and develops a person in ways they never imagined. Not only does it help you to better deal with situations you have found yourself in before, but it also grants you the wisdom that is necessary so that you may teach others from your experiences. Turning away from conflict is weakness, and a sign that until you recognize that, you will remain weak as well.
Da1337Man the best thing about her teachings is that it is so close to the truth, yet it has flaws. And the main reason why it has these flaws is that she had the force her whole life. Lines like "if you allow yourself to be used by others then you deserve to be used" and "and when he is victorious he will be stronger for it" are flawed. The first line contradicts her teachings about the force, she hates the force and is used by it, but she doesnt want to be used by the force, yet if you apply this line to her then she deserves to be used (she admits that she was wrong when you point it out to her in the game). The second line is flawed cause she assumes that "he" (some guy with a problem on Nar-Shadda) will be able to handle the problem on his own, but real people, people who dont have the force as a crutch, are not always capable of resolving their problems on their own. The reason for this flaw in this line and in her teachings is her view on the world, her connection to the force and disconnection to the normal people. She is facing a different level of strughles on a daily basis and uses the force to resolve some of her problems, but normal people dont have any of that, and sometimes they need help.
Cant say much about the 1st point but the 2nd point about the nar shadaa guy is wrong. She never tells you not to give to charity but to be careful with it. You give the guy money, people get jealous, ends up being robed and beaten. In her exact words - be careful of charity and kindness , less you do more harm with an open hand than a clenched fist.
Dude that's not what her core belief is lmao. What you mention is literally just the overly simple sith code which Kreia proves just as flawed as the jedi code throughout the whole game. That's what KOTOR 2 is all about.
His first point is wrong too. Yes, Kreia has been used by the force, and yes, according to her own philosophy she deserves having been used. But that's no contradiction: that's exactly what she believes. She understands that the jedi and sith ideologies lead only to subjugation by the force. She therefore resents her past and recognizes that she had become a tool to the will of the force and now tries to actively combat it through the Exile: the one person who has earned freedom by willfully renouncing the force.
"Do friends not follow? Do friends not form hierarchy of their own, no matter how small the circle?" Holy shit this is true... in all groups of friends I've been a part of, there had always been an inherent recognition of who the alpha is.
@Yensen Connor Nah, don't look at it like that. There's no way else for you to go but upwards, if you play your cards right.
That's strange, as my group of friends doesn't seem to have one. As afr as I've perceived so far
@@HelenHunt69 fair point, that's something I didn't consider
@@frzferdinand72 wrong, hierarchy isn't formed on playing your cards right, but by being better, more experienced with something to deserve your place at the top. It is something you achieve through work on yourself, not a bunch of cheap tricks or clever phrases.
@@namesurname624 History would like to prove you otherwise, haha. Not everyone deserves their place at the top.
“I’m too old to make friends.” I can relate and plus you’ve earned my respect Kreia. I took you for granted when I was young but now I understand you completely.
*I’m Too Old For Friends*
*I Use It As A Poison*
*If You Seek To Aid Everyone Who Suffers In The Galaxy, You Will Only Weaken Yourself And Weaken Them*
Excuses made by old people like Kreia.
@@ABFan-bj2uj The last one is at least debateble. I mean, she says it to make the player stop helping anyone, which is quite clearly a step too far, but the point about people becoming stronger when overcoming their struggles on their own, and you weakening yourself quite literally if you give something up for others are still true.
God protect me from friends because I guard myself from my enemies. Romanian saying :)
@@kreia187 No. She does not say to stop helping people, but to know how and when to help them. Not everyone should be aided, and often should people be let to fight struggles on their own. Her point is that doing someone's work instead of letting them fight their own struggle. As she says: War, the true war, is not waged by machines, soldiers and droids. Those are but crude matter, against which we test ourselves. It is the internal struggles, when fought and won, that give strength to people. You stole that struggle from them, cheapened it.
@@shyper17 That's true, I seem to have phrased that wrong. I can't quite remember, it's been a while, but you can see from the rest of my comment, that that is what I meant.
Kreya has SO MUCH pure distilled wisdom...
No joke, i think i have somehow changed after carefully listening to her and learning what she had to teach. Not in just this one video, but throuought the whole dedicated playthrough.
Kreia's Conundrums exists for a reason.
"I speak with a passion that goes unheard."
Nonsense. Your passion echoes within every fiber of my being, even to this very day.
and then The Old Republic came and took all of this beautifully crafted lore and dialogue, and threw it all out the window for some stock, trite, 2-dimensional bad guy with the most unimaginative name of "the Sith Emperor."
Bioware seems to have a knack for creating great franchises and then destroying them so utterly. This game was such a masterpiece, created this amazing mystery with Revan, the temple at Malachor V, the how's and why's of it all... all to be ruined by a cheap World of Warcraft clone with lightsabers.
Just to clarify, it was not Bioware who made kotor 2 but by a group named obsidian(seemed like you did not know)
Sone Hely No, I'm aware. Which only makes me think Bioware has never played this game. Seems like they just completely threw it all out the window because they needed a cheap two-dimensional badguy for their MMO's villain. They needed a Horde to their Alliance, so they made up "the Emperor" and completely destroyed Revan and the entirety of Kotor 2 to get him.
And yet Drew Karpyshyn, the writer of KOTOR 1, the Revan novel, and the Darth Bane series didn't seem to have a problem with it. There's no doubt the Obsidian story opened a lot of ignored doors of opportunity but when the creator of the OG character is fine with it what can you do?
You call it what it is: terrible writing. Even Stephen King wrote some real shitty books. No writer is above criticism.
Fair enough, I think it was a mix of the two. Bioware needed a big bad and wanted Revan in there so Drew did the best he could to appease that need while giving a nod to the Exile. Could it have been better? Sure. But let's not forget that Kreia's interpretation of Revan's motivations were based on a) a lack of knowledge of what he encountered in deep space and b) her own personal interpretations of Revan and what drove him making her views extremely biased
Sub added man. In my eyes you join the highly-esteemed Kot0R legends, such as Shem L and TehPrincessJ. Thank you for bringing these memories back to me. May the Force be with you!
Thank you. It's a nice pantheon to be apart of. Don't forget Knights&Darths.
Kotor 2: "Revan met no Sith Empire, yet he learned their teachings"
swtor: *"i'm about to end this man's whole career"*
Fucking Swtor.
@@EB-yv8hw agreed damn them for erasing all the dope lore kotor 2 established, and what they did to the exile and revan's characters... if only we could get a kotor 3 from obsidian one day
I stand corrected. What a shame.
@@youtubeisnotsocialmedia nah but wait, weren't the true sith the ones who pulled him toward the dark side in addition to what happened in the mandalorian wars? that's how he knew about the trayus academy and such and that the True Sith were in the Unknown Regions. He had to have known about them before to go find them. I like the idea he was influenced by them through the shadows and he didn't actually encounter them until after KOTOR
@@youtubeisnotsocialmedia I don't know what MMO you played that retcons nothing, but swtor was pretty explicit in that the Sith Emperor was the one that turned him to the dark side in the first place. Revan and Malak went into the unknown regions after the Mandalorian Wars and the emperor brainwashed them.
"As a young Jedi, I went to war. I accepted violence and darkness, and the Emperor called to me from across the galaxy. He made me a Sith Lord and named me Darth Revan."
"I discovered hints of your Empire on dead, lost worlds. Korriban, and Malachor. The Emperor felt it, and he summoned me."
Seems pretty contradictory to "Revan met no Sith Empire," and a deliberate attempt to retcon everything kotor 2 set up.
That is one of the most unique aspects of Kreia as a Sith: self-awareness. She has the wisdom to know herself without ego or preconception, and therefore to understand the Jedi and the Sith as they truly were. The greatest irony was that for all Kreia’s wisdom, there were two things whom she completely failed to understand, despite devoting everything she had to understanding them: Meetra Surik after her rejection of the Force, and the Force itself. It was fitting that those two things would then be her downfall, and the downfall of her teachings.
Goddamn, the writing and voice acting is incredible.
What didn't she understand about those two things?
@@PapitoQinn I understood the ending as in the end she valued the Exile above her teachings and above her life.
@@PapitoQinn
One could argue this until the end of time, but from my perspective on how Kreia failed to understand the Force & Kreia:
* The Force doesn't have a will - no more than the ocean has a will. It is nothing more than a thing, a presence. And it will reacted to that which impacts it, just as how an ocean will ripple when something lands on it or swims through it or simply touches it. She ascribes to it a desire for balance when that isn't the case at all; it is not urging anyone in any direction for the sake of balance. It simply exists as a thing that can be unsettled, and then will settle again over time.
* The Exile, after being cut off from the Force, can openly state that she NEVER wanted to be connected to the Force again, and regularly shows a lack of interest in the future/manipulation (culminating in a final line on Malachor where you can tell her to "let the future rest" in response to her offering to look into the future for you. Kreia has a chuckle at that and admits there is wisdom in your words before letting herself finally die). In essence, while Kreia had some understanding of why the Exile cut herself off from the Force, and of the impact that had, she did not actually understand what the Exile herself became (as a person) in the aftermath.
the thing she said about identifying fracture points and striking that power will come back.
I don't think many appreciate how this is one of the deep esoteric secrets of cult psychology in real life.
I know I’m late but can you elaborate about how esoteric cults use fracture points?
I ALWAYS sought Kreia's council, after every expedition.
Kreia is such an amazing character. She's not super cool looking. She's rather mundane looking. She's no bombshell, she's an old lady. She's not kind and friendly, she's jaded and abrasive. For most of the game she isn't the most impressive fighter. Yet she leaves an enormous impression on the player and is regularly praised as one of Star Wars greatest characters. She subverts and questions many of the ideas and tropes within Star Wars, but where Jake and The Last Jedi fails, Kreia and KotOR II succeed because it is done so in a way believable to the character and world. The writing of the character makes you wholly believe that Kreia's ideas are her own. You believe this old woman is a Jedi, a trained force user and has lived a life time in the galaxy far far away. When she challenges your perception of the galaxy, the light side, the dark side, and the Force itself you believe these ideas are real to that world. You feel it makes total sense she would believe what she tells you and not a mouth piece for the writer, which she was. The Last Jedi feels like a movie trying to be more clever than it is. Because they haven't built up the galaxy, or taken the time to develop the characters to their new state a lot of what is said doesn't feel like it's coming from that world, but is taking advantage of the meta. Roses whole spiel about the arms dealers has no context in the world of TLJ so it feels like a commentary on the real world and it breaks the illusion this Galaxy really exists. When Luke goes on his tirade about why the Jedi should end he talks about things the audience would know about the Jedi from the Prequels, but why would Luke? Why would Luke who venerated the Jedi say such things about them and believe they should end? The movie abuses the meta and what the audience already knows and it breaks suspension of disbelief when it does so. The message doesn't feel like it comes from Luke, but the director. KotOR II challenges popular conceptions about Star Wars and what people believe about that universe, but it doesn't take for granted what people know about Star Wars when it directly challenges it and they weave the subversion into the fiction instead of replacing it with it.
You do know Luke's portrayal in TLJ was ripped from Lucas' treatments right?
@@jamestyler3606 George Lucas certainly had a down and out Luke Skywalker in mind, but we really don't have any details on what he had planned more specifically. If I had to guess I think what would have been Luke's biggest struggle was fearing himself and what he was capable of and learning to give up his attachments so he could do what must be done and make a very difficult decision which would be to kill Ben. Not in his sleep and before he's done anything wrong, but after he's committed all these heinous acts. I think Luke's breaking point should have been failing to bring Ben back to the light and allowing him to run rampant. He struggles with the dark side and can't come to terms with the fact he has to kill Ben for greater Galaxy. We as the audience learn another reason why Jedi don't have attachments and have to learn to let go because it can stop them from make difficult, but necessary decisions.
Plus the player is then able to challenge Kriea back about her beliefs, says when she speaks of redemption and her disdain for the idea you actually gained influence when you do
"I speak with a passion that goes unheard"
Was thinking about that again today. Had to come here.
What I learnt from this game, strength isn't always taking everything for yourself from others, it's about finding your own road to strength.
I hear deeper meaning in the statement "You *deserve* nothing, but you have *earned* such obedience, yes."
If you have earned something, is that the same as deserving it? Or is there a difference? Is the statement of deserving something an arrogant point of view, or is it justified when backed by accomplishment and adequate ability?
The argument goes around and around; what you have earned, what you have merely been given, and what is owed, and even the plethora situational circumstances of it all.
It's simple. Nothing is deserved, everything is conquered, and when you do conquer something even then it's not rightfully yours. It is through strength that you got it and it is trough strength that youl'll have to keep it. It sounds tyrannical at first glance, but giving love is also an use of strength, "love conquers all" and such, because true love is active. Passive love is strength unfelt, and probably unexistant, a delusion of the person. Remember that time she criticizes helping the couple on Nar Shaddaa.
Yet the "kind" of people that follow the Exile here are dejects and outcasts that always need a leader, not matter if it's in the lowest common denominator pool, because they're too lost and/or devoid of purpose to work properly on their own.
@@buntado6 There is nothing Tyrannical to the sheer fact that might makes right. it simply is. it becomes tyranny when such strength is abused and taken too far beyond respects or reason. or when the herd tires of its bondage to its master.
Thank you for taking the time to capture moments of the best character in fiction.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching. Oh and, take it easy.
Kreia is the pinnacle of Star Wars excellence. She is absolutely brilliant and her philosophies will echo through the generations of all those who have the ear to listen.
Unfortunately TOR had Revan discovering the Sith Empire only to become the Sith Emperor's Underling before striking out on his own.
I love this. Do you have MP3 tracks of these clips? I would love to listen to them more on my own when I go for walks. These talks can easily be translated into the real world. thanks for the upload
Indeed I do have the soundtracks are both KOTOR 1 and 2 in MP3. E-Mail me at papitoqinn@gmail.com and I'll look into sending them to you.
I'd love these too!
Oh, I misunderstood the question. If you google "youtube mp3" and click the first link. You'll find what you're looking for.
These clips you make are of such good quality, both visualy and audio. Would you be okay with me using your clips in my videos? I would happily credit you both in my descriptions and video credits. I would understand you not wanting me to use them, you must have put alot of hours into making these. Thank you for helping the community by sharing this awesome game with us in such good quality.
Kotor 2 was one of the few games that was more than just a game for more me and I've played hundreds possibly thousands. So many great quotes and your actions really hold so much weight and it shows in the end so much. Makes you reflect a lot.
Despite other Kreia's lessons being great, i find this one of the most relatable to real life. Thank you Papito, for this oportunity to learn.
Gods, Kreia was such an amazing character. Too bad it was all ruined in the beast that is The Old Republic
The writer of KotOR II said that Kreia was a mouthpiece for what he hated about the force.
It was also ruined with that awful Revan novel.
@@shotglassanhero I'm not surprised with that at all. Kreia definitely had an angry old-hag vibe to her, but she also recognized it as well, noting she hated the Force yet still used it.
@@sirpepeofhousekek6741 that novel and how it dealt with revan and the exile really ticked me off. what a waste of such great potential
This is a REAL strong female character
I like how Kreia stands up a second after it starts like "oh shit it's on? So.."
My Star Wars hill to die on is that Kreia is the best written character in the whole franchise.
Heh! I agree!
Kreia, the first influencer
"I am not blind". I mean...
That's just her sense of humour, she always goes for the dry delivery.
@@camazotzbat5970 "I hope your talent for understatement is offset by your skill with a blaster."
I dunno what's going on with her eyes, but that line coupled with her constant references of "the blind one" (Visas) tells me Kreia can see.
@@Bacxaber She actually tells the exile that she sees all she needs to see. So she probably uses the force to see.
Thank you for your wisdom, Master Kreia, it will not be wasted.
Another thing that pisses me off about the Revan novel and SWTOR: Kreia is implying that Revan learned the ways of the Sith from Malachor V here, and that he chose to become a Sith, he did not fall. That makes for a much more interesting character than simply being mind controlled by a bigger Mary Sue than Rey.
The whole point of his 'secret plan' even though he was mind controlled is supposed to tell you that that is how impressive he was. Even subconsciously his mind fought the Emperor and did what needed to be done vs what he wanted him to do.
@@CalamityDiamond Honestly the only difference here is a simple yet crucial thing. A choice or mental domination. There are narrative points to be gained from both. However I like the idea that he was drawn to the temple on Malachor and uncovered records pointing to the survivors of the Great Hyperspace War beyond the edge of the galaxy. But due to his time in war and the effects of Malachor itself was slipping and decide to make his fall productive and ready the galaxy either throw is direct command or acting as a virus the Jedi would have to learn and neutralise likeimmune system in preparation for the coming threat.
BioWare seemed to try and write KotOR II out of the story when it came to SWTOR. Professional jealousy, perhaps. Like in those short videos chronicling the history prior to SWTOR, they wrote the Exile and KotOR 2 out of the script. E.g. it said the order to use of the Mass Shadow Generator on Malacour V was given by Revan, not the Exile as in KoTOR.
Sir Pepe of House Kek He was mind controlled but he quickly broke free of the Sith Emperor's influence
Malak was brainwashed, and corrupted. Revan wasn't. Vitiate assumed Revan to be amongst the ilk of Exar Kun, weak-minded and easy to prey upon. That was his mistake, and his undoing. He unleashed Malak and Revan upon the Galaxy, seeking to soften and weaken the Republic before his actual attack, like dulling an enemy's sword with a rock. Instead, Revan, not convinced or fooled by either Sith or Jedi teachings, sought to create a better future for the Galaxy at large. Revan's attacks on the Republic were not meant to destroy the Republic, they were meant to teach the Republic, to show it how the Sith would fight and function. Revan's Sith Empire served as the wake-up call for a Republic and Jedi Order drunk on peace and power.
In each invasion Revan commanded, he left the infrastructure be, and dealt damage that was only harmful in the short term, nothing that would weaken the planet for Vitiate's arrival. He also made sure to 'remove' individuals in power that would be harmful to the coherence of the planet's defense, or those who would easily capitulate or be recruited into Vitiate's Sith Empire. He was not a rock, but a sharpening kit that Vitiate foolishly tossed aside.
When Revan went to fight Vitiate's Sith Empire, he did so by playing up the weaknesses of the Sith; Their affinity for infighting. He showed up, bearing the title of a Sith Lord, and fought other Sith, putting doubt in the unity of the Sith Empire. Many returned to their old habits in response, destabilizing the Empire. He even caused Vitiate to lose faith in said Empire, resulting in him creating a hastily-built Empire on the sidelines, one whose hasty birth would lead it to a death just as hasty. Vitiate eventually got ahold of Revan, and used the Force to break and twist his mind, but by then, the damage was long since done.
Revan knew he Vitiate was no regular Sith, and knew he couldn't bring him down the old-fashioned way. He had to think outside the box. So instead of engaging him directly, he just facefucked and threw wrenches into his plans on the sidelines, in places, spots, and ways Vitiate was too busy to look for.
Y'all act as if Vitiate's some Mary Sue who the writers had kick Revan's ass just to make money. If that were the case, Vitiate would've been milked the same way that Homer Simpson did. No, Revan played to lose. He knew what was gonna happen, he just made sure he'd lose on his terms. Not Vitiate's.
Bonus Bit: The reason for Vitiate's unusual exemplary ability is probably because the Force constantly seeks to balance himself. He thought of himself as a God, but in reality, he was just a balancing tool. A way to ensure that the Light Side didn't snuff out the Dark Side. The biggest lie the Sith ever told themselves and us is that the Force shall free them. That's a crock of shit. From what I've learned, the Force thinks more like a cell than a sentient force of nature; Constantly working to maintain itself and continue it's bodily functions. Hence the constant need for balance. Too much Light Side, and both it and the Galaxy grow stagnant and complacent, eventually choking on their own excess fat. Too much Dark Side, and both it and the Galaxy will drown in the blood.
“HA. Friends. Do friends not follow?? Do friends not form a hierarchy among their own no matter how small circle? I am too old for friends, and when the years settle upon you, You will dispense with such words as well..”
I could always tell who was actually a friend in my greatest times in need. Looking back it was very easy to spot someone who only wanted to use you.
"Hi! My name is James!"
"Give in to your vengeance!"
O_o
Why can’t we get a “Revan” show that follows him training with Arren Kae and then going off to fight the Mandalorian Wars - ending with the final battle at Malachor V. Of course there could be Meetra episodes too.
That makes no sense. What you see are developers and voice actors. If Disney copy pasted the aesthetics of the old republic era, without the creators, it would be nothing more than a hollow shell. A beautiful structure, which collapsed inward, because there's no foundation to support it. It would be as corrupt as the Hobbit. I just can not see it happening.
It's crazy how a game character like reven and kreia are more teachers to many than the crap we get in public schools.
Suddenly i feel like i can relate to this, i have no friends in my school because i never needed them, when they ask me for help, i do help, but only because it helps me improve and i couldn't care less if they succeed in the end or fail as a result of my "charity", really makes one question their actions on a deeper level, like how kindness is but a subtle cruelty of leaving the helped static and weak, while taking on their challenges to make yourself stronger, this shows the danger that one's naive nature can have on others if they insist on helping those who would seek to avoid the challenges they face and at the same time the strength that would come to them upon withstanding those challenges.
Sorry for rambling.
I feel this is very reductionist. Helping others to help them is nice, and kinda good. But you shouldn't be naive about it. And you shouldn't completely selfish about it. Those are very unhelpful extremes. There pros and cons of charitable actions, and should be looked at critically. But not with a completely individualist right-wing extremist view, to put it bluntly and, also, reductionist in it's own right.
There are people who are unable to help themselves, ever. Sometimes they do need help, sometimes that help is bad, and another way should be sought. That's what I feel.
I always look at the African dictator Thomas Sankara about this. He ruled Volta, and renamed it Burkina Faso (which means Land of the Upright Men) He did some shitty things, like censoring of all beliefs that were not his specific brand of Leninism. Like arresting other Communists, and just general people who were deemed lazy. But other things he did were very interesting. One specific thing he did, was cut all foreign aid. He claimed "who feeds you, controls you". It was a never ending cycle of exploitation, and a narrow reaction to European exploitation and Colonialism. It's better to do it then not imo. But without looking at something else? That's what Sankara felt, and I apply that to many things. It may be better to help, but you must look at it critically, and not selfishly.
I'm gonna feed a starving person, or a friend of mine who was sexually assaulted, because I have basic empathy. But we must look at what causes those things, and achieve the freedom of other people, to have their own destiny, not being some Randian nutter about it. So the cycle will break.
I dunno, I just think selfish led apathy is as bad as naive charity, y'know? And so is selfish charity. There's no simple answer for it, but we shouldn't discard all of them.
omega1397 Huh, I never thought of it that way, probably because at school i'm not very social, the lack of any interaction between me and my classmates sort of prevented any care i would have had otherwise, but what sealed the deal was how i attended a lesson alone:no noisy classmates, no off-topic conversation, it really helped me concentrate and left me wishing for a similiar learning environment.
BonkHazard
I'm happy that you managed to make sense of my tired ramblings lol.
Yeah I was the same, only I had a small circle of friends, I got along with everyone, but I didn't hang out with everyone. As I prefer the quiet too.
BonkHazard i think many of us never had friends or alot anyways
Funny how all of you self-imposed loners care to think about is how other people should act. Help or don't. It's your preference and you'll deal with the consequences that follow. Why does kindness or help need to have some deeper meaning to you? Have any of you ever asked yourselves why any of such things matter to you? Has pondering on such things ever really made your lives any better?
Imagine if you showed this in a leadership class.
She just told me these lines and it got recommended to me. The force perhaps?
Works in mysterious ways.
I was the leader of a friend group, i learned this when people tend to agree with me more, even on things that when i look back on; i still wondered why they still agreed to such silly things that did or didn't work in the end. Yet i implimented no psycological tactic...or as so it semed. Little did i know, i have a tendency to move the room wether its in a professional job position despite not being the boss or meeting up with a friend. My friend tends to be generous with me and i don't know if this means he wants to invest into me or he feels obliged to do so.
I wish she had her own prequel game...
I dream of bringing a KOTOR animated or live action series to Netflix and the world. Sara K having the lead role of Arren Kae and Kreia. A more monotonous voice as Arren white flowing robes, beautiful white hair and wisdom unending, grey hair as Kreia with the classic robes and hood we all know and love, hiding that dark mystery beneath it's veil. All the other voice actors we know and love as well. Niki as Atton of course. The only one who wouldn't be able to come back would be John Cygan, the voice of Canderous/Mandalore
Kreia lies and uses half truths. She might not be a leader, but her voice is heard. She is a teacher. An unreliable narrator... from a certain point of view.
Kreia is the best kind of leader; the kind who says something along the lines of _"If you put higher faith in me than your own guiding conscience, you're nothing short of a fool and I told you so."_ Or at least that's my take on it. I hate that I hated this character during my first play through. I was arrogant, more concerned with flashy costumes and noble ideals fit for a glib motivational poster the likes of which you'd expect to see on the dining hall of a moof-milker's yogurt shop. Kreia is a gem.
Kreia is such a interesting character.
Revan didn't intend to build an Empire, but a Bulwark. to bring about a latent strength in the Republic that wasn't yet there. anything to prepare them for the coming war. the acts and cruelties performed were but preparation for what the true sith were capable of. something alas, i do not see well laid out or described by TOR.
"Echo" count: 2
You know when Kreia says "To believe in an ideal is to be willing to betray it"?
She says it when you're talking to her about the lessons of strength, after breaking Hanharr. ua-cam.com/video/2WFtSZsb4gM/v-deo.html
@@PapitoQinn oh really? I haven't played as Dark Side and I remember seeing the dialogue on my screen 🤔
Quite curious
@@PapitoQinn BTW
Thanks! :)
@@condedepiamonte93 its actually dialogue about training handmaiden
"I am not blind"
Should... Should we tell her?
I can't believe people don't think this holds up to the first.
it depends on where they are in life and what they value out of Starwars the most.
Awesome
Great character indeed.
2:39
Me: ...a cult.
The old republic is on point 🔥🔥🔥
2:26 Guess that was wrong lol
i think shes lying, shes obviously a leader, for the main character. The will to move other strong wills, is there anything greater? And scarier
Really astute and underappreciated observation, honestly.
How do you add hashtags above the video title??
You just have to put the hashtags in the description box somewhere. I like to put them at the bottom.
Papito Qinn interesting! Ok, I had no idea!!
a game that was played using the mechanics to get to more story and depth, not a game that was endless mechanical, superficial grind for instant yet ultimately meaningless gratification
0:33
Revan, Tulak Hord, Vitiate, Marka Ragnos, Sidious, Krayt and Caedus the greatest of all the lords and yet still there must be a Darth Traya!
The galaxy will always need betrayals. For they are tiny cogs in the greater machine of civilization.
1:32
"I am not a leader, i speak with a voice that does not move others" oh yeah? Tell that to Ordo, you messed with his head. And you blackmailed Atton into sticking around with the Exile.
I speak in all honesty. I love Revan, I love Vader, Obi-Wan, Luke, Ahsoka... all of them
But Kreia is my favorite character ever
Most redpilled Star Wars game ever
Unfortunately I think we'll never see a new Star Wars product with the same mature writing of KOTOR
Very few games or stories have come near KOTOR’s depths, at least not recently
@@Raydan116 Fallen Order *nearly* reaches this territory with characters like Taron Malicos, but in the end, it's a simple adventure. A fun one, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't take risks.
Disney is too stupid to grasp a character like Kreia. Our flawed but pragmatic grandmother.
Waiting for Kreia appearance in The Mandalorian.
This game is the second time Chris Avellones writing has held up a technical dumpster fire of a game.
In Planescape: Torments defence it works because its almost "anti-game" in its "interactive novel" makeup. But KOTOR 2 was a rushed mess that was pushed out the door way too early. If not for the strength of the writing this game would have been consigned to history as an utter embarassment.
As it stands today it is an example of how deep and complex you can make writing even in a universe so simplistic and juvenile as Star Wars is.
I might use this comment in a video I'm writing.
1:44 Well she looked for, fought and died for Revan, then spent 300 years consoling him as he was imprisoned by the Emperor, so...
That business with the Revan Novel, doesn't, doesn't count.
ohhh but revan did meet a sith empire........and the tru emperor
But only after the mandalorian wars. The 'sith' teachings that Revan learned were teachings that he learned through war. Just teachings that the Sith also believe in, and learned them the same way.
+Papito Qinn the academy that taught those powers was built by the emperor. revan found it at the end of the mandalorian wars. the teachings already existed
Trayus Academy? The emperor did not built that. It existed long before he did. Revan also found Malachor V and the Academy before the end of the war. he built the mass shadow generator in Malachor after all. The teachings that Revan learned, of course were learned by others long before he did. It's just that he learned them through his experiences in war, not from the sith.
+Papito Qinn dude ur insane. the empire has existed millions of years. he did build that Academy. It's his life drain teachings. it's how the emperor stayed alive for millions of years. except the entire planet dies. not just force sensitives
+Papito Qinn and I kno revan learned it from war. but the academy showed him the full extent of it. and the tru empire
The problem is that the great voice acting distracts from the philosophy
Edgiest 2deep4u character ever
Disney would make her a black lesbian trans with a rainbow lightsaber. Let’s hope they don’t destroy this character.
that wouldn’t matter as long as her core personality is intact. weird comment.
No they won’t, Disney will only make background characters gay so they can edit them out in the Chinese release
Sorry but Baylan is NOT you
She’s wrong