Hey Josh, there's a big discussion on ArcheryTalk right now about fletchings fighting the natural rotation of the arrow coming off the bow. How about making a video with a chronograph set at 30 yds and shooting the same arrow, with the same weight, but with one arrow fletched right helical and one fletched left helical, knowing that the natural rotation is either left or right, and seeing how that affects arrow speeds with the one that's going with the flow, against the one that's fighting the flow to go the other direction?
Hey MFJJ. I posted this comment on the original upload of this video, but now that video is gone. Below is a video of Paige Pearce showing two different arrows clocking in two different directions out of the same bow, so that seems to indicate that the string twist direction isn't a factor. What are your thoughts on her findings? This whole clocking issue seems to be an enigma wrapped in a mystery, wrapped in a crispy bacon sandwich. Paige Pearce video: ua-cam.com/video/ebSxqxBq1w8/v-deo.html
Interesting. Paige Pierce has a video where she shoots two different arrows from one bow (same bow, string etc.) One arrow clocked left, the other arrow clocked right. My arrows clock right with ABB, nevertheless, Paige’s video was interesting. So yep, test your bare shaft arrows, ya never know!
I don't think the bowstring is the ONLY factor. This video is basically the opposite test of Paige's video. MFJJ uses same arrow, different bows Paige uses same bow and different arrows. The carbon in the arrow maybe spun different directions? Or something is causing it to clock left v right... I think the important take away is... Clock every single arrow you plan on using. 🤷🏻♂️
I think people are to far back and some arrows are rotating farther than others giving false readings I also seen Paige's video and that would be my only conclusion with that either one arrow spun faster than the other or the arrows were made different and that was the reason
Made my own strings with the center serving counter clockwise and I swear it makes a difference in the way it flys...should stabilize faster and be more forgiving
The beginning of the last video didn't have sound, the first couple seconds, that may be the reason. If I had to guess at least. It was right before it jumps into the intro song
Josh I love your content and the way you explain the clocking process of a bow string. I shoot A3 which twists to the right thus my arrows clock left. My hunting partner has ABB strings which twists left and the arrow spins to the right. Had he watched this video yesterday he would of fletched his arrows to the right this past weekend. At least he understands the issue due to your video so thank you for all you do!!!
It makes sense, but the last batch of arrows, I clocked Easton, 4 mm long range, match grade arrows I had eight turn right and four left and was shooting them out of the same bow.
I run ABB and just checked and arrows clock left but just a little. Is it arrows? Running Black Eagle renegades. Idk?? Guess that’s why you test and not just assume
Hey Josh, can you do a video on a lower poundage bow (50lb) and tell whether which way the arrow clocks naturally with a bare shaft is hurt or helped depending on direction of helicles and straight fletched arrows? I would like to know if it is worth me buying new arrow set ups for this season just to have straight fletches changed to a specific helicle or not.
I’ve always believed that fletched arrows have momentum in a particular direction before the arrow leaves the string. I’ve believed this because the vanes are cutting wind the exact moment it starts moving forward. If that makes sense. I personally don’t think arrow clocking matters. At least not to me.
How do you know it hasn't made almost a full rotation. Let's see some slow mo video with a fletched arrow to see what is really happening. I seriously doubt you would see a helical fletched arrow spin the wrong way and then stop and reverse
This may be a dumb question but, if the arrow is spinning left and you do a left helical. Is there a chance your broad head can unscrew if it hits a fair amount of resistance in an animal?
Something else to think about, does the direction of the center serving make a difference? So say you have a string twisted clockwise and the center serving is placed front to back which way will the arrow clock? Then reserve the same string but serve it back to front will the arrow clock the same direction or opposite. Be nice to know how or if the center serving has any affect on this ?
Thank you for all the informative videos. Sorry for my English, but if I understood everything correctly, you said that the string of GasGas and also the bows on PSE would let the featherless arrow turn to the right, i.e. clockwise. on my PSE Mach 34 with the original string, a featherless arrow turns to the left, i.e. counterclockwise. Anyway, thanks for all the informative videos. I hope you will also put out a video explaining how to set an bow by changing (rotating) the cables and strings to the manufacturer's specifications (axes to aches and so on). Thanks Jörg
@Podium Archer I have watched several videos that have this topic in them. And for what it's worth, I'm taking your advice. My bow clocks left with 60X strings, so when I got my bare shafts, I went with a left helical on the fletchings. I figured that I don't like getting forced to do anything, why force my arrows to do something (Spin clockwise) they don't want to do.
I think your testing methodology needs some help. You should get 2 of the same model bows with differently wrapped strings on each. Then, set them both up identically, i.e. rest, draw length, draw weight, cam timing, etc. Then you'll unfortunately need to fire the same arrow at a minimum 5 times out of each bow (probably even more) to make sure that the arrow clocks that direction a significant majority of the time out of each bow.
I believe he has already done this. He provided us with a short form of testing. That he has already performed. I would love it if you would do a video yourself if you believe the conclusion provided is wrong.
I always appreciate your way of educating the masses and not being that dogmatic guy. I think it works just like throwing a curve ball. I’ve noticed the tighter the serving the more the arrow will clock and vise versa. Does it make a difference? Yes, but to what extent and what bow setups may actually benefit. BTW how do manufacturers make counter clockwise strings when the material at its core from BCY is clockwise? I would think that string would be wanting to slowly unravel over time being twisted against its natural direction.
Jesus Christ, talk about a can of worms... Absolutely, I will not rest until MFJJ tests this. He better get back into making bow strings again guys. Because this will be a multipart episode!
So YEAH ..... Just started building my arrows a few weeks ago and went the Arizona ez fletch route , right helical . Having coffee , watched this vid this morning , Took my phase 4 out to the yard , well look at that , clocking left ... Took out my Triax , low and be hold , clocking left ,as well all this time running wrong helical , needless to say Left helical jigs on its way ...
I am stuck fletching RH unless I buy a whole new jig. I have been using the same JoJan with a RH clamp for over 20 years. As far as I know they don't make them anymore.
So I do have a question??? Is this saying most except pse bows with factory strings clock left ?? And if so why do most box arrow companies with helical fletch fletch right side ? When they should fletch left side to match most bows clocking 🤷♂️
Arent zebra strings on mathews bows twisted counter clockwise ? Ive alway heard most mathews bows will clock the arrow left. I recently changed from right helical to left on my v3x 29 was that necessary?
My concern is the broadheads has right hand thread and my Mathews clocks left. So I did my fletching right so the broadhead stay tight. Mistake or not?
We can actually induce or eliminate spin by the shape of the string under our servings. Additional strands under the serving as the serving is wound. Food for thought.
I think it's turning quicker than people think everyone that I have seen does it from about 3 yds or so I think you should do it at about 1 or 2 arrow length from the target just to see, about you saying the way the arrow wrap is turning might possibly be it because I seen Paige shoot 2 different arrows out of her bow at same place one clocked left and the other clocked right so either the arrows are rotating much faster giving a false reading or it's the way the arrows are made
Thanks for the solid video and information. MFJJ. I’m shooting a V3X with GAS strings, and I plan on fletching my arrows with a full left helical, since they are already clocking left. 😎
Personally I’ve never payed attention to this. I have shot arrows out of the same bow with different directions of helical and never noticed. Maybe shooting broadheads you would get more drag and waste some energy?
Question for you. You mentioned the serving in the beginning and got me thinking. So would I be able to manipulate the clocking if I change my serving direction? Or does that not matter and it has everything to do with the string twist?
I videoed my shooting the other day at 50 yards. My arrows are fletched right. However my arrows were spinning left when it hit the target. What causes this
ive been aware of this for awhile, but never bothered much because i only have a right jig for my blitz. AND i just built a new dozen arrows for this year and did notice they clocked left during my bare shaft/nock tuning. my ? is can i twist my string the other direction? would i need to twist cables as well? thanks in advance. great job on these videos, keep them coming. thanks again.
I have the same opinion reguards the importance of fletching the same way as the bow clocks. Short distance is more affecting than the longer once. I have also filmed in slo mo from the rear with blazers on the shaft and then you could se how the arrow almost fluttered if it started in the wrong spin. 😅
I shot 5 different arrows out of my phase 4 from 250-500 spine 3 turned left and 2 went right any explanation on different arrows causing this I heard could be the way there wrapped but Easton says there's don't have any seam so that can't be it idk what else to check I just check every arrow before hand now I've also had arrows out the same dozen for entrance some go one way and only one or 2 go the opposite so I'm lost
How did you determine whether they clocked left or right? If you use the same method as him, perhaps you are standing too far away and the two arrows going right actually went left, but for example 270 degrees or something like that.
Always heard it doesn’t matter and that left or right helical was more about using a left or right feather off a bird back when feathers dominated fletchings.
Think of it this way. Rotation to a football is critical to it's flight stability. If you throw a football and it's spinning clockwise, it has to stop midair and start spinning counter clockwise. Don't you think that's going to effect the stability? Now put surface area (fixed blade broadhead) on the front of that football. That's not going to help keep the stability. See where I'm going with this?
Yeah my bow clocks left so I use left helical so I must agree somewhat to pay extra for custom arrows. I was just watching an old timer that started out at bitzenburger that was talking about why they made the left and right helical jigs I the first place. He says it makes little difference because the arrow flight is corrected so fast before hitting down range. I’m not an engineer but I’m guessing there isn’t much force on the arrow clocking ten feet from a target only an 1/8 of an inch to the left so wouldn’t lose a whole lot of energy from having to spin the other way. I’m paranoid enough fletch that way anyway though lol. I do think other factors affect arrow flight way more than clocking though and is probably the least of my problems.
Do you think there is an advantage to spinning one way vs the other? Like, should I buy gas or abb or whatever just to get my arrow to twist one way or the other?
There isn’t an advantage as long as you set the helical to your arrow. A potential disadvantage would be if it’s a certain way (I don’t remember which exactly) it can unscrew your field points I believe
I really don't think it matters at all. Fletched arrows are going to have force put on them by the vanes as soon as you release and will turn in the directions of the vane offset or helical. We all want accuracy and the only real way to test this is to fletch the same shafts withe the exact same offset/helical in opposite directions and shoot some longer distances. Whatever groups better will win. I haven't done this type of test but i can't imagine there'd be a big difference, if any at all.
No, it's twisted under all servings as well, you can only twist all visible parts, but then it will be unstable. The twist will slowly creep under the serving, lengthening the strings slowly. Short answer, no.
Hey Josh, there's a big discussion on ArcheryTalk right now about fletchings fighting the natural rotation of the arrow coming off the bow. How about making a video with a chronograph set at 30 yds and shooting the same arrow, with the same weight, but with one arrow fletched right helical and one fletched left helical, knowing that the natural rotation is either left or right, and seeing how that affects arrow speeds with the one that's going with the flow, against the one that's fighting the flow to go the other direction?
Hey MFJJ. I posted this comment on the original upload of this video, but now that video is gone. Below is a video of Paige Pearce showing two different arrows clocking in two different directions out of the same bow, so that seems to indicate that the string twist direction isn't a factor. What are your thoughts on her findings? This whole clocking issue seems to be an enigma wrapped in a mystery, wrapped in a crispy bacon sandwich.
Paige Pearce video: ua-cam.com/video/ebSxqxBq1w8/v-deo.html
Specifically, Chris.P.Bacon - he shoots with a handicap , try not to laugh. Look him up 🤣
Interesting. Paige Pierce has a video where she shoots two different arrows from one bow (same bow, string etc.) One arrow clocked left, the other arrow clocked right. My arrows clock right with ABB, nevertheless, Paige’s video was interesting. So yep, test your bare shaft arrows, ya never know!
I don't think the bowstring is the ONLY factor. This video is basically the opposite test of Paige's video. MFJJ uses same arrow, different bows Paige uses same bow and different arrows. The carbon in the arrow maybe spun different directions? Or something is causing it to clock left v right...
I think the important take away is... Clock every single arrow you plan on using. 🤷🏻♂️
I think people are to far back and some arrows are rotating farther than others giving false readings I also seen Paige's video and that would be my only conclusion with that either one arrow spun faster than the other or the arrows were made different and that was the reason
Made my own strings with the center serving counter clockwise and I swear it makes a difference in the way it flys...should stabilize faster and be more forgiving
Wait. Didn't i watch this the other day.
Yeah me too lol. Maybe he changed something in the title or something and had to reupload.
The beginning of the last video didn't have sound, the first couple seconds, that may be the reason. If I had to guess at least.
It was right before it jumps into the intro song
@@Sparky513 lol I didn't even notice that
Josh I love your content and the way you explain the clocking process of a bow string. I shoot A3 which twists to the right thus my arrows clock left. My hunting partner has ABB strings which twists left and the arrow spins to the right. Had he watched this video yesterday he would of fletched his arrows to the right this past weekend. At least he understands the issue due to your video so thank you for all you do!!!
I checked my Ventum Pro and my sons Diamond Prism. Both clock left. I just ordered a left helical fletching jig and clamp so I can do our arrows over
It makes sense, but the last batch of arrows, I clocked Easton, 4 mm long range, match grade arrows I had eight turn right and four left and was shooting them out of the same bow.
I've got the same thing with gold tip and Sirius out of my bow
Excellent. Most bows (strings) do create a left rotation. That's why I fletch left helical.
I just shot my bow at about 8 feet and even though it’s fletched to the right it still clocked to the left. You might be on to something
All my pse's have clicked left I just started fletching the way my bows clock from watching your videos thank you
Now shoot left twist strings and right serving. Or flip the string and see what happens.
I run ABB and just checked and arrows clock left but just a little. Is it arrows? Running Black Eagle renegades. Idk?? Guess that’s why you test and not just assume
Hey Josh, can you do a video on a lower poundage bow (50lb) and tell whether which way the arrow clocks naturally with a bare shaft is hurt or helped depending on direction of helicles and straight fletched arrows? I would like to know if it is worth me buying new arrow set ups for this season just to have straight fletches changed to a specific helicle or not.
I’ve always believed that fletched arrows have momentum in a particular direction before the arrow leaves the string. I’ve believed this because the vanes are cutting wind the exact moment it starts moving forward. If that makes sense. I personally don’t think arrow clocking matters. At least not to me.
How do you know it hasn't made almost a full rotation. Let's see some slow mo video with a fletched arrow to see what is really happening. I seriously doubt you would see a helical fletched arrow spin the wrong way and then stop and reverse
If the string is twisted counter clockwise. Which direction should you serve the middle serving?
What if my string is counter and my serving is clockwise? Anyone ran into that?
This may be a dumb question but, if the arrow is spinning left and you do a left helical. Is there a chance your broad head can unscrew if it hits a fair amount of resistance in an animal?
What about the same arrows 2 clock left 4 clock right
I absolutely believe this. I have tested it myself and got the same results
Something else to think about, does the direction of the center serving make a difference? So say you have a string twisted clockwise and the center serving is placed front to back which way will the arrow clock? Then reserve the same string but serve it back to front will the arrow clock the same direction or opposite. Be nice to know how or if the center serving has any affect on this ?
I had the same question and couldn’t have said it better, thanks 🙏
Would this change out all with a left-handed shooter?
Thank you for all the informative videos.
Sorry for my English, but if I understood everything correctly, you said that the string of GasGas and also the bows on PSE would let the featherless arrow turn to the right, i.e. clockwise.
on my PSE Mach 34 with the original string, a featherless arrow turns to the left, i.e. counterclockwise.
Anyway, thanks for all the informative videos.
I hope you will also put out a video explaining how to set an bow by changing (rotating) the cables and strings to the manufacturer's specifications (axes to aches and so on).
Thanks Jörg
My '22 Omen is the same, arrow turning counterclockwise.
I understand the string twist but is the serving also reversed
Could you use dental floss on the tip and see what direction it spins
Gas XV strings clock left off of my Alpha X 33.
I went to an aggressive left helical years ago. I could really see a difference in my broadhead flight and better groups.
How do we know if the didn’t turn more than one rotation?
@Podium Archer I have watched several videos that have this topic in them. And for what it's worth, I'm taking your advice. My bow clocks left with 60X strings, so when I got my bare shafts, I went with a left helical on the fletchings. I figured that I don't like getting forced to do anything, why force my arrows to do something (Spin clockwise) they don't want to do.
Interesting
I think your testing methodology needs some help. You should get 2 of the same model bows with differently wrapped strings on each. Then, set them both up identically, i.e. rest, draw length, draw weight, cam timing, etc. Then you'll unfortunately need to fire the same arrow at a minimum 5 times out of each bow (probably even more) to make sure that the arrow clocks that direction a significant majority of the time out of each bow.
I believe he has already done this. He provided us with a short form of testing. That he has already performed. I would love it if you would do a video yourself if you believe the conclusion provided is wrong.
Great
I always appreciate your way of educating the masses and not being that dogmatic guy. I think it works just like throwing a curve ball. I’ve noticed the tighter the serving the more the arrow will clock and vise versa. Does it make a difference? Yes, but to what extent and what bow setups may actually benefit. BTW how do manufacturers make counter clockwise strings when the material at its core from BCY is clockwise? I would think that string would be wanting to slowly unravel over time being twisted against its natural direction.
Jesus Christ, talk about a can of worms...
Absolutely, I will not rest until MFJJ tests this. He better get back into making bow strings again guys. Because this will be a multipart episode!
So YEAH ..... Just started building my arrows a few weeks ago and went the Arizona ez fletch route , right helical . Having coffee , watched this vid this morning , Took my phase 4 out to the yard , well look at that , clocking left ... Took out my Triax , low and be hold , clocking left ,as well all this time running wrong helical , needless to say Left helical jigs on its way ...
Its true 100%...
I am stuck fletching RH unless I buy a whole new jig. I have been using the same JoJan with a RH clamp for over 20 years. As far as I know they don't make them anymore.
So I do have a question???
Is this saying most except pse bows with factory strings clock left ??
And if so why do most box arrow companies with helical fletch
fletch right side ?
When they should fletch left side to match most bows clocking 🤷♂️
Thank yoy mfjj for the info you provid us. And when are you sending me the give away bow. Im still waiting. Lol we all want to know.
Ahhh! I was clocking my PSE Mach 30 and it was going right. I thought I was going insane.
Should left-handed bows have string twist opposite from right-handed bows..?
Arent zebra strings on mathews bows twisted counter clockwise ? Ive alway heard most mathews bows will clock the arrow left. I recently changed from right helical to left on my v3x 29 was that necessary?
My concern is the broadheads has right hand thread and my Mathews clocks left. So I did my fletching right so the broadhead stay tight. Mistake or not?
We can actually induce or eliminate spin by the shape of the string under our servings. Additional strands under the serving as the serving is wound. Food for thought.
Can someone tell me if the weak spot in the arrow needs to be up or down for maximum accuracy!??
So would it clock different if your left handed or would it clock the same as right handed
I think it's turning quicker than people think everyone that I have seen does it from about 3 yds or so I think you should do it at about 1 or 2 arrow length from the target just to see, about you saying the way the arrow wrap is turning might possibly be it because I seen Paige shoot 2 different arrows out of her bow at same place one clocked left and the other clocked right so either the arrows are rotating much faster giving a false reading or it's the way the arrows are made
You need to deep dive this my brother, same bow, left right sting twist and a slow motion camera… I’ll see you and Dan on the mountain on the 23rd.
Thanks for the solid video and information. MFJJ. I’m shooting a V3X with GAS strings, and I plan on fletching my arrows with a full left helical, since they are already clocking left. 😎
Personally I’ve never payed attention to this. I have shot arrows out of the same bow with different directions of helical and never noticed. Maybe shooting broadheads you would get more drag and waste some energy?
Question for you. You mentioned the serving in the beginning and got me thinking. So would I be able to manipulate the clocking if I change my serving direction? Or does that not matter and it has everything to do with the string twist?
I videoed my shooting the other day at 50 yards. My arrows are fletched right. However my arrows were spinning left when it hit the target. What causes this
ive been aware of this for awhile, but never bothered much because i only have a right jig for my blitz. AND i just built a new dozen arrows for this year and did notice they clocked left during my bare shaft/nock tuning. my ? is can i twist my string the other direction? would i need to twist cables as well? thanks in advance. great job on these videos, keep them coming. thanks again.
I have the same opinion reguards the importance of fletching the same way as the bow clocks. Short distance is more affecting than the longer once. I have also filmed in slo mo from the rear with blazers on the shaft and then you could se how the arrow almost fluttered if it started in the wrong spin. 😅
Is it how the string is twisted or how the center serving is wrapped??? Can you twist the string one way and have the center serving opposite???
I love stuff like this. Tinkering with things like this is one of the funnest part of the sport to me.
So how do you know if it’s the string twist or the arrow fiber wrapping that you’re seeing affecting a bare shaft
100% right tested this 3 years ago with bows and arrows I was building
This makes sense to me. I’m sure the string tries to untwist a little when it gets a tiny amount of slack.
How many twist do you need to get your peep to stay in line of sight in eather directions
This is awesome. I need to check my fletches now.
I like how you tested the clocking
I shot 5 different arrows out of my phase 4 from 250-500 spine 3 turned left and 2 went right any explanation on different arrows causing this I heard could be the way there wrapped but Easton says there's don't have any seam so that can't be it idk what else to check I just check every arrow before hand now I've also had arrows out the same dozen for entrance some go one way and only one or 2 go the opposite so I'm lost
How did you determine whether they clocked left or right? If you use the same method as him, perhaps you are standing too far away and the two arrows going right actually went left, but for example 270 degrees or something like that.
Totally agree 💯%
That's better 🙂
Good job
Always heard it doesn’t matter and that left or right helical was more about using a left or right feather off a bird back when feathers dominated fletchings.
Think of it this way. Rotation to a football is critical to it's flight stability. If you throw a football and it's spinning clockwise, it has to stop midair and start spinning counter clockwise. Don't you think that's going to effect the stability? Now put surface area (fixed blade broadhead) on the front of that football. That's not going to help keep the stability. See where I'm going with this?
Yeah my bow clocks left so I use left helical so I must agree somewhat to pay extra for custom arrows. I was just watching an old timer that started out at bitzenburger that was talking about why they made the left and right helical jigs I the first place. He says it makes little difference because the arrow flight is corrected so fast before hitting down range. I’m not an engineer but I’m guessing there isn’t much force on the arrow clocking ten feet from a target only an 1/8 of an inch to the left so wouldn’t lose a whole lot of energy from having to spin the other way. I’m paranoid enough fletch that way anyway though lol. I do think other factors affect arrow flight way more than clocking though and is probably the least of my problems.
Do you think there is an advantage to spinning one way vs the other? Like, should I buy gas or abb or whatever just to get my arrow to twist one way or the other?
There isn’t an advantage as long as you set the helical to your arrow. A potential disadvantage would be if it’s a certain way (I don’t remember which exactly) it can unscrew your field points I believe
@@BlairThibaultcorrect, left helical or offset tend to unscrew your points
❤️
I really don't think it matters at all. Fletched arrows are going to have force put on them by the vanes as soon as you release and will turn in the directions of the vane offset or helical. We all want accuracy and the only real way to test this is to fletch the same shafts withe the exact same offset/helical in opposite directions and shoot some longer distances. Whatever groups better will win. I haven't done this type of test but i can't imagine there'd be a big difference, if any at all.
Could you take your string off and retwist your string so your arrow clocked to the right instead of to the left?
No, it's twisted under all servings as well, you can only twist all visible parts, but then it will be unstable. The twist will slowly creep under the serving, lengthening the strings slowly.
Short answer, no.
U R A Boss 4 this!!!!