Arrow CLOCKING | Worth worrying about?!
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- Опубліковано 19 сер 2024
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One of the reasons I shoot a right offset, even though my bow naturally goes left is my PSE and a couple other brands have a notoriously shallow shelf, and I wanted to make sure that arrow doesn’t start spinning until it’s past the riser. Otherwise the fletching hits the riser on the way out, and that causes all kinds of issues.
Put a little bow wax on your field tip threads. Easy quick fix for heads not coming loose on left helical vanes like myself.
I have that happen sometimes, where the tips are loose after the shot. So I’d assume my arrows are twisting left? Funny thing is my fletching are right helical. Is it possible my bow string twists the arrow so hard to the left that the fletchings are overwhelmed and don’t get a right hand spin? If so, this is probably costing me a little accuracy and more importantly some lethality upon hitting a deer?
I been watching a lot of ranch fairy lately and I wanna get every bit of lethality I can out of my setup. So I’m thinking I should fletch my arrows left seeing how they seem to be coming out of the bow that way, instead of having the fletchings fighting the natural spin, they could be working together and improve the flight of the arrow
@@voxpopuli905 definitely not your fetching over take the natural counterclockwise spin within the first few feet. My arrows clock right and I fletch to the right. Still my tips loosen up too. I'm even wondering of left hand spin will actually tighten tips on impact tbh but all my arrows are right fletched so I'm not going to commit to finding out anytime soon.
@@jhuntley575 yeah I’m trying to not be too ridiculous about this stuff. I ended up with a hell fire quick fletch. Totally by mistake. I had a couple laying around from years ago and I do t remember being overly impressed. But that was an old ass bow totally out of tune and I knew nothing about any of it.
I threw these on in a pinch, and damned if they weren’t the best in the bunch after that. They just happened to be the last detail that rounded off the build package and for now it’s good. Paper tune is perfect. So I’m leaving it alone for now
I'm no pro by any stretch of the imagination but I am constantly learning. I feel that if the arrow clocks to the left, you'd want to fletch left helical. Fletching it to the right would seem to make the arrow want cork screw for a moment. With left clock, left helical, it would come off the bow spinning great. I put some string wax on the threads of my field points and broadheads and have never had a problem with them coming unscrewed. Great videos. Just offering my perspective.
Nope. "would seem to" doesn't make a flip. Try actually shooting some arrows yourself and SEE what they do. If your bow is tuned, they WILL NOT cork screw at all. That's you dreaming up a scenario based on an assumption. In the real world, it IS what it IS.
@@dewboy910 I have my strings made counterclockwise twist to Match my right hand fletch because I'm ocd
So I had a similar issue I think the corkscrew effect might have been to much off set causing over rotation and it does look like a corkscrew effect in flight I think right would have been fine with less off set but I went left cause they clocked left and no problem back to shooting like bareshaft this was with a broad head on the change in direction may let it catch air idk field points on I didnt see it so I dont think any of you are wrong but your not right either theres just to many variables person to person just my opinion but never had a problem before and most are straight slight offset to the right if you buy fletched arrows so I really think it's to strong off an opposite off set that does the corkscrew effect
Professional archer Paige Pierce did a great video on this to show that it doesn't matter. Once the bareshaft arrow leaves the bow it's only spinning about 1/2 or 1/4 of a revolution per 10 feet or so. By adding a fletching on there it COMPLETELY negates all rotation almost immediately.
@@dewboy910 no he is correct. Watch Lancaster archery slow motion footage of a right helical on a arrow that clocks left. It stops spinning right off the bow and has to correct and start spinning the opposite way.
This video was really useful because I never understood the whole clocking thing but now I fully understand it. Thanks!
Lancaster archery has slow motion footage of a arrow fletched the opposite way that the arrow clocks and it does stop and stutters right off the bow and has to correct to the way you have it fletched. It does matter
If you want your arrows to clock to the right buy ABB strings or ask your string maker to build the string with a counterclockwise twist. The reason most string makers twist strings clockwise is for 2 reasons. One bcy material already comes pre made with a 1 in 4 clockwise twist. To take the time to untwist they have to figure the build a certain percentage shorter on measurements to get the right string length outcome. Also it makes the bundles look bunchy sometimes. Then they need to serve counter as well. Americas best Bow strings are the only big company strings I have found made with counter clockwise twist. Remember a counterclockwise twisted string will yield natural right hand spin on the arrow. 99% of the strings are made with a clockwise twist delivering a natural left hand spin. Yes its the serving direction causing the spin one way or the other, but the serving direction is determined by the string twist direction
All of my sets from ABB have all rotated to the left. None of them have ever had a right rotation. And no I have never asked them to set it up so I would have a left rotation its just how they came.
Hello from Happy Valley. Another informative video! I’ve only been at this for a couple years, and still have lots to learn. Videos like this are great. We Are!
PENN STATE!!!
I've been telling this to my fellow archers for the past 10 years ever since I started making my own strings with a left twist and the center serving imparting a natural clockwise rotation to my arrows. Most bow string makers put right twist in their strings with the serving imparting natural counter-clockwise rotation to the arrow.
I shoot right helical my field points come loose every shot. If you are worried about it re-serve your string or take it off and put it on upside down.
Your videos are informative for sure .. My arrows travel counterclockwise and I fletch accordingly left offset straight and I really noticed a accuracy difference and I use screw in heads but have never had one unscrew . Probably because I dont have a hard left helical so my rotation is not as drastic. Keep the good videos rolling.
Levi Morgan says there is a chance of over twisting arrows and causing your arrows to cork screw, which he called parachuting. So those guys that are fletching LH helical because their arrow is coming out of their bow turning left (counterclockwise) and on top of that put too many degrees of LH helical on their arrows can encounter a problem where the rear of the arrow starts fighting too hard with the front and starts parachuting (cork screwing). I've been shooting RH helical for over 40 years and never had a problem and the bare shafts came out counter clockwise on most of them. Just now, I went outside with my bow and shot a bare shaft. The bare shaft tuned clockwise about 5 degrees at 3 yards. Then I shot an arrow with RIGHT Helical at 3 yards. It rotated about 5 degrees CLOCKWISE! SO all those folks talking about the fletching "fighting" with the the natural rotation of the arrow are full of horse poop!! At one yard, the bar shaft rotated just enough to tell it rotated (about 1 degree). WIth RH helical, the arrow had not rotated left or right . The cock vane was still straight up. So if the RH helical comes out of my bow with no rotation, but starts rotating within 3 yards, I wouldn't call that much of a "fight" for control. Be careful who you listen to! Folks tend to parrot things they have NO EXPERIENCE with. Go shoot your bare vs fletched arrows at 1 yard, 3 yards, and 6 yards and SEE FOR YOURSELF! The guy in this video is CORRECT. It doesn't matter which helical you shoot! I think the point/broadhead loosening argument is much more of an issue than the fletching "fighting" the natural rotation of the arrow! I'll keep shooting RH helical!.....based on MY OWN testing.
love the content. i have clocked the bare shaft and it comes out of the bow ccw. from what my slow motion videos show if you are a western hunter as i, then fletching an arrow in the orientation of the bare shaft clocking is very important . the slow motion video showed a very bad knuckleball effect resulting in lose of penetration and speed. i havent had any issue with the broadhead or the field point coming loose (yet) .
The information provided in this channel is second to none! Thank you for providing unbiased useful information!
I've done center serving counter clockwise to clock to the right. It seems to spin faster which would in theory stabilize faster making your setup more forgiving. I would be curious how much energy is wasted reversing the rotation in flight. I would agree at 20 to 40 yards it probably negligible.
Great explanation. I get that rattling too. Now I know why.
Awesome information! I’m in the process of purchasing vanes for my arrows and appreciate (and trust) your take on this! Thanks, Nate!
8:40
Actually. If the broadhead would be freely rotating, there might be even more force transmitted to penetration, because the blades of the broadhead prevents it to rotate inside the animal and it wants to go straight.
However, if and when the arrow itself is rotating, a lot of the energy is wasted when the arrow body tries to work against the non-rotating broadhead.
All my arrows clocked to the left with my factory’s strings then switched to America’s best bowstring and all my arrows now click to the right ! Lots of refletchings in my future lol
ABB is one of the few that I'm aware of that twist and serve in such a way to cause a right clock. Wish they all did! Lol.
Finally a thinker! You had me at righty tighty. Why have an arrow that's going to unscrew inflight. Especially with fixed heads. Just for laughs I tried this at 100 yards and my well known sturdy broadhead almost unscrewed itself and damaged threads on impact and stripped the insert.
As long as you shoot beveled fixed blades (which you should anyway for penetration), or even mechanicals, your tip becoming unscrewed is not an issue. The only time it is a factor is fixed blades without bevel; which are substantially worse for penetration to begin with because-- they will cause the arrow to stop spinning on impact regardless of fletch orientation.
What does matter is --if your arrows are clocking CCW (which 99% of bows are) and you shoot a right helical or offset fletching, it can take up to 15 yards for your arrow to start spinning. Whereas if you shoot left helical or offset fletchings, the arrow will start spinning as little as 3 feet. That is a very considerable difference. Especially on a windy day.
Also, field points will loosen regardless if the arrow is spinning to the left or the right. Put some wax on the threads before installing the field points.
Seems like w a single bevel w the extra rotation on impact from bevel, left hand fletching would likely cause even more issue assuming the arrows are clocking left. All interesting stuff, just ordered myself a bitzendburger straight and right clamp. 👌
Makes sense, my straight fletched arrows don't loosen, my others w left helical do.
Apparently there are a good number of very good target archers that tune the bow for perfect arrow flight, then group tune to an inevitable slight high left tear. Because that’s just how it turns out the best groups. I’ve read dozens of answers but one common suggestion is that the arrow compensating for the slight imperfect launch overrides a slight flaw in your technique, and high left means it flexes away from the bow for better consistency overall.
If that is true then it makes sense to me you could achieve perfect arrow flight then spin it opposite direction, might help too?
I’m just guessing based on things I have read. There’s almost as much bad info on the web as the good.
Maybe? Maybe not lol.
Disclaimer- I’m a noob less than 2 solid years archery in adult life
Long story short it does make a small difference … get left threaded points /inserts. Or have custom made strings .
I keep asking that very question when people talk about testing arrows for their natural clock. They immediately state that is how the arrows should also be fletched.
My question has always been does fletching it in the same direction make them more accurate than fletching in the other direction. My testing has not shown a difference but i am just a backyard plucker.
Certainly LH helical jigs seem less popular and harder to find.
Great video and explanation.
Long range testing would be great, and put you in the category of only one to do so.
Thank you sir
Excellent video, well articulated and great points.
Its your d-loop, change the loop orientation and you’ll see the arrows rotation change. Also a little wax on your broadheads or field points threads will keep the heads from loosening up.
I have 3 Bear Montana long bows and 2 rotate left and one rotates left And that is due to the limb twist
Awesome video man! As I’m starting to build my own arrows this is very insightful thank info. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you! I was just thinking about this and considering buying a left helical clamp and swapping a few of my right bevel cutthroats for left to try it out, but the point unscrewing part is a big concern for me. Even with right helical my points sometimes loosen up, so I can imagine it would be worse with a left helical. I’ll stick with right and go with it!
I would stick with RH. Listen to this guy in the video. He is spot on.
30 year's bowhunting and I've tried left and right both hit at the same spot. Chrono speed no difference . Arrows always end up on the other side of the animal. So to me no difference at all with my 65lb satori. But that's just me don't know about others. Maybe I'm just that good hahaha. Great vid brother.
Thanks as always pure gold!!
Man I have seen like thousands of videos on helical. Never has any of them said something about the point or tip getting loose which is true. I shoot left helical and 90 percent of my arrows field tips are loose after every shot. You should do a video on helical or no helical.
Put a little thread tape on the points. Boom fixed
You forgot to add, if you shoot a single beveled broadhead, you need to orientate the fletching to the broadhead. That away they don't fight each other.
Good video
Hey Nate I was at my local shop and I asked my Bow Dr./Coach about this very thing (Because I fletch myself) and he said left offset and left helical used to be important during the finger shooting era. A release fixes that.
We used to think, before high speed cameras, that arrows started spinning immediately after getting off the string and they need to "roll away" from the shelf of trad bows. For RH archers, that meant left helical, and LH it meant a right helical. Hence why a boatload of olden day arrows are fletched left helical that you find lying around at old shops and guy's basements. Lol. But modern cameras have shown their is no rotation until a few feet past the bow, and it's irrelevant. Fletch either way regardless of your handedness. Trad bow or compound.
@@averagejackarchery Thank you Nate
Great video. From the explanation to the demonstration s. Well done!
Love the hunting public shirt
Because of how minuet the affect of serving is on the arrow any amount helical will start to control the flight of the arrow instantly.
I recommend you watch this video from 1nestly. Very interesting find at 2k FPS camera speed! ua-cam.com/video/wRr23rjQzQA/v-deo.html
Eased my concerns. Thanks man!
Great simple explanation
Absolute amateur here... but I would think fletching against the natural spin of the bow would just equate to some energy loss? Perhaps that would be easier to test?
Ok so I shoot a compound with fingers I'm thinking of using vanes rather than feathers I Bare shaft shoot an arrow it rotates left so should I fletch I left or right thanks great video
Fletch either way! Although left is a great option.
I don’t think it matters. If you hit your mark then you hit your mark. I guarantee my misses are due to my inconsistencies rather than minute details like arrow clocking.
Thanks dude!
love your videos mate!
I appreciate the effort but some videos say being that specific is not too important unless you are instructing tournament achers, and they probably already know what your talkin bout.
Why don't someone come out with reverse threaded inserts, feildpoints, and broadheads
Would like to know about penetrations . Left n right offset. Pls make a video. 🙏🙏😄
The direction of offset or helical has no impact on penetration. Unless you're shooting a single bevel head and the head bevel must match the offset or helical. Meaning right bevel right Fletch, and the inverse.
Nice work!!! Thank you for putting this in perspective for an average bow hunter!
Another great video ! Thanks man
Can I serve my string opposite direction and get a clockwise spin? I don't want loose broadheads.
Don't sweat it. It's really okay as is.
@@averagejackarchery I'm not sweating it. I did switch to left helical after I clocked my arrow Ccw last year. I just don't like the idea of loose heads as a possibility. Would simply serving my string opposite spin my arrow cw? Or is it more than the serving direction?
Ok, what happens if I twist the string in the opposite direction the same amount of turns? Won't the arrow come out without the fletching having to overcome the ccw , resulting in a straighter arrow flight...
The serving was wound on in a particular direction. That you cannot change by twising the string the other direction.
well crap i thought i was being smart, but what you said makes more sense
You're a good man, Jeff. :)
I get it, if you want to fletch 4 of your arrows one way and 8 the other, go ahead. There's no way you can convince me that with all the energy transferred into an arrow at release and the rapid acceleration that if you have an arrow fletched the "wrong" direction it will have any affect on arrow flight. I wonder if someone like Levi Morgan does this??? The aerodynamics of the fletching taking control will immediately start steering the arrow anyway.
Levi Morgan does fletch his arrows according to the clock off the bow. ua-cam.com/video/nxV_11gFzGo/v-deo.html
Awesome information!! So one question? What do you do then if you have a beveled broadhead? Or it doesn't matter?? Thanks
You have to shoot the corresponding Fletch to match the bevel. Right bevel = right helical. Same for left.
Arrow spine will determine which way the arrow spins. Paige made a good video on this.
What about the energy dumb you’re getting by making an arrow that naturally wanted to spend left stop and redirect to the right? Also what kind a tuning issues can this redirect cause for someone that’s shooting paper or bare shafting? I also wonder if there’s an effect on velocity since there’s a period of turbulence in the redirect. I’m just spit balling some ideas and I’m not trying to argue. What is your thoughts???
Happy Thanksgiving!! Wondering if you have any recommendations for a 4 fletch jig setup with right helical. I will be shooting 2.1” vanes. Is the Bitzenburger my only option? I am interested in the AZ EZ fletch but am worried that I won’t get enough helical because of the shorter vanes and it seems like that rig isn’t for shorter vanes.
Thanks!!
i have been getting a consistent nock right from all my arrows out of my new bow... 250 to 400 spine, fletched or not... my draw length was set at 29.5 but it seems too short for me (last one was set at 30" maxed out). i have to drop my bow elbow to be able to anchor (seems like im an inch short on the draw).... does this sound like it could be a factor? i have my rest way left to compensate on this bow and my last bow.
So with single bevel does it matter if you shoot straight vanes with left or right bevel
Straight can go either way.
Love your videos, very informative, great audio but fix or turn off autofocus....I am dizzy LOL!! What camera are you using for video cuz it's have a hard time detecting your eyes, face or the focus area is set too wide.
Yeah it was MISERABLE. Usually my camera is much better than that. Try to run manual focus whenever possible for that exact reason!
Video is good. Topic is silly. The amount of torque placed on the arrow from the string is VERY VERY MINIMAL compared to the amount of torque from the fletching. I would like to see someone fletch the same arrow in right helical, shoot it into the target the same way and measure how much it rotated. THEN, fletch it left and do the same thing. I would be willing to bet that as long as both right and left were fletched with the EXACT same amount of helical, the amount of rotation would be exact. That would infer that the amount of force produced from the string twist is very insignificant.
Consider your wish granted. It it appears to have a significant impact at even short distances. ua-cam.com/video/zY70S2ze8ew/v-deo.html
@@averagejackarchery I've watched that video and commented on it. Go watch it and read my comments. Watch the videos I tagged. This is absolutely ridiculous.
@@averagejackarchery Did you ever go watch those other videos? I never heard back from you.
On your wife’s bow, I noticed that she doesn’t have her peep tied in (6:08). Doesn’t her peep creep up or down? Am I adding unnecessary weight (I realize that it’s a tiny amount) to my string and/or adding one more thing that could potentially fail or cause issues at an inopportune moment?
Her peep isn't tied in as we were in the process of finding a new anchor point and therefore the peep needed to be moveable. Good catch! Always tie the peep around the center at the least. Keeps it from potentially flying out.
does the arrow not spin in flight without fletching's?
I will spin, but with a mind of its own!
Pretty sure this is the first time I’ve ever even heard of arrow clicking.
🤣🤣🤣
We on the same page lol, it’s going to unscrew !
About a year later he says he changed to Left helical. He says accuracy is the same, but left helical has more forgiveness while shooting broadheads and he doesn't need to nock tune. ua-cam.com/video/DzHGWDMWvtE/v-deo.html
Finally some common sense on this.
I was following until you mentioned gravity.
Left spinning arrow.. right helical.. 300?
Point taken.
Yeah if this blind squirrel can find that nut with an arrow fletched "backwards" then I think anyone can!
After watching this video, I'm becoming more convinced that it must have some impact flight. Now whether that translates into more accuracy, not sure. ua-cam.com/video/wRr23rjQzQA/v-deo.html
I'd be curious to see if you're mind if changing about this over time, and what you found in experimentation.
My arrows clock left and I fletch left, am I more accurate, well, my experience with fixed blade broadheads has gotten a whole lot better. I shot some slow motion video and put them side-by-side, it's clear that the left fletched arrows come out of the bow spinning and the slight right offset ones do not spin for about 10 yards. If you're interested the video is on my channel. Here's the link, if this is considered rude I'll happily remove the link from my comment. ua-cam.com/video/-x2rG9qIUJQ/v-deo.html
Dude, you should be a science teacher!
Haha! I'll stick to the English side of things. :)
Very interesting. The amount if stuff I still don't know about archery is always surprising. Many thanks. Btw, what evidence do you have that God had anything to do with your beautiful country? Oh that's right, none whatsoever.