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What Makes a Bow Accurate? Find out with MFJJ!!
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- Опубліковано 30 січ 2022
- A common question some people seem to ask, what makes a bow accurate in my eyes- well you came to the right place!!
Thanks for coming back and checking us out!!
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This is valuable information. Unbiased and you’re not being paid to say things about it that ain’t true. That’s what makes your channel worth watching.
Well you’re very smart when it comes to archery! Most of us newbies like me don’t know much about archery. So thanks for teaching us I love the videos, I started my archery journey because of you Dan and Tim so thanks again.
Makes perfect sense to me.
I remember lusting heavily over the original PSE Evo, to me, it was the baddest thing I'd ever seen. Such beautiful lines.
Well nobody local had it, but that year the "Dixie Deer Classic" was coming to town again and I finally got my hands on one!
😒 It was one of the easiest bows to torque I'd ever shot. The limb pockets were WAY out in front of the grip and you could just breath hard and watch it torque while holding.
I've owned 4 Bowtechs since then, and their "center pivot technology" that's built into their bows (imo) makes them some of the most forgiving bows on the market.
I’ve heard of these measurements before, but I totally forgot about them. I really think bow manufactures need to add these measurements to their bow specs, but because they don’t, I’m glad MFJJ is gonna add these to the bow reviews. Very helpful MFJJ!
That is one of the reasons I bought a Reckoning. Always preferred a deflex riser for accuracy.
Excellent video. That definitely makes sense. My 2012 bowtech invasion CPX is very forgiving, and I never thought about the reflex measurement being a major factor. Keep up the great work
That is some serious Bow Nerd info…and I love every second. Shooting a few right now and will pick the one that “talks” to me 😆 keep up the great work…and thanks for the fast shipping.
I’m very happy you’re going to include these stats in your bow reviews going forward. Could you also consider measuring string angle on bows? This is also an important consideration and it’s info that’s almost impossible to find.
That’s why they give you axle to axle. Plus it’s going to be different at every draw length. If you don’t like a tight string angle then you don’t want anything under 32 inches imo and honestly if string angle is a concern for you then 33/34 and up is all you should be looking at. Anything at 34 and over will be perfectly acceptable for anyone in the string angle department.
Stabilizers significantly change the forgiveness and feel by impacting the same two variables bow vertical stability and torque
Great video. You sir are a true professional.
VERY informative MFJJ .. gonna say ur vids are probably more descriptive and more in depth yet easy to follow .. it’s like “bow tech for dummies”.. keep up the great work!👍
axle to axle at full draw is probably very important I would think
This makes total sense and this is why deflex risers are more forgiving in tournament bows! Thanks!
Great video MFJJ love your work, I'm a BIG fan, I love the way you simplify & share bow techy tips that others make a mystery, Thanks for helping us.
I gotta give a shout out to podium archer customer service… I ordered some arrows about 2 weeks ago. Got them in and my 60 grain inserts weren’t in the box. A 39 second phone call to them on a Saturday and my inserts were in my mail box on Monday! AWESOME customer service Josh Jones! If anything needs anything from them I highly recommend them! Going to order me a draw weight scale and a arrow scale from them next and I’m sure it will be just as good! Thank you podium archer staff!
THANK YOU!!! Finally something that makes sense! Real numbers that actually mean something! Thanks for giving us good info and being honest for OUR benefit!
You may also consider providing total length when you provide mfg ata. A 30" ata bow with salad plates for cams will have a real world length of 36+" which would be a negative for some, but would provide a better string angle, and be a positive for others.
😂😂😂
thanks for the bow lesson professor MFJJ. keep up with the great work!!
👍👍 it's about the mechanical advantage of leverage points. Basic geometry. As the pivot point ( where your hand meets the riser) is moved back toward you from the limb pivot point the " triangle " becomes bigger. This allows an easier ability for the limb tips to move left or right because the three points of the triangle are farther apart. A long narrow triangle, even at full draw when the cams are rotated and the position of the string has moved along with the limbs flexing back toward you, will have less perceived and actual " wiggle" left or right. For those that work with their hands and build things this concept is easy to grasp. For those that can not understand all this- just trust ol' MFJJ!
V3X33 is one of the best bows in every category... I'm sold.
Good info. I feel like the bow that feels the best and I have the most confidence with is what I’m going with. I’m not a target archer, I’m a hunter. I shoot every day, and a lot. But I still don’t feel I’m accurate enough for these differences to really stand out enough to make my overall decision. Almost all the big manufacturers make equipment that will far outperform most of us. I truly like what feels best. Draw cycle, steadiness etc…I don’t shoot farther than what’s acceptable with my Broadheads, so that’s the true test and I typically don’t tend to go off measurements or popular opinion. That being said, these added measurements from manufacturers would make it easier to make a decision without spending all day in a bow shop and/or wasting money trying to find what you can shoot best if you don’t have that availability.
This is super helpful. Wish manufacturers would've disclosed this information instead.
I agree with you that the riser length and reflex contribute more to accuracy than brace height and axle-to-axle. However, brace height can be reflective of reflex, since a larger brace height tends to indicate less reflex in today's parallel limb bows. Similarly a longer axle to axle somewhat reflects a longer riser, particularly within a brand; though you pointed out that across brands, this is not always the case. Regardless of any of the four measurements that you discussed, what I think contributes most to the accuracy of any bow is the amount of time the owner spends practicing with the bow; and by practicing I include shooting arrows at various yardages and working on form.
What's up from a Zimbabwean olypmic archer .love your info mate . On point and something I look at seriously when sorting my compound bits and looking for none BS info .thanks man enjoy your stuff
I do like that way of figuring the bows out makes sense
I've been bow hunting for over 20 years and this is the first I've ever heard of reflex. I just measured my Bear Legit and the reflex is at 2 1/4. So kind of in the middle. I guess that's a alright number. Thanks for more awesome information.
Thank you for your insight I have been shooting for over 40 years and started a lot of people in archery any bow can be accurate if you practice and you are consistent
Yes, it's that simple. High volume reps and good form.
I agree! People shouldn’t impulse buy off of these measurements lol
Pretty awesome to know these specs from a bow when it comes to buying one 👍🏻 Definitely using this knowledge
You have a gift the way you explain things it makes it easy to learn
Bods Blessings
Great video. Finally someone is talking about this. I have been teaching/preaching that for years. The difference between reflexion and deflection. It is so important for accuracy.
Love it. MFJJ teaching me stuff again. Keep up the good work.
As a new to the bow world guy, I find your information helpful. Logically this video makes a lot of sense to me.
Thank you
I completely agree with your thought process. The other tangent i would throw in that i consider is the grip design. I think this is where more people make poor choices. Just because it feels good in your hand does not mean it will shoot well for you if your grip isn't consistent. I hear more people when buying guns or bows make the comment this feels good in my hand so i will take it. If your completely open and honest with yourself and try every bow most people don't walk out with what they came to buy.
I had never thought of measuring a bow in this manor before. It makes sense. I will have to measure mine and See how much different they are.
Thank you for sharing
You have the best information and great in front of camera
Great insight as always MFJJ - thanks for sharing so we can make more informed decisions. Both measurements are dictated by riser design so, aligned with some of the other comments, it would be interesting to see if there are “unique” bows which statistically would be superior to those with the larger marketing budgets or brand names
Over the last 5 years I have heard several people say in reviews that a brace height in today's bows doesn't matter as much as it did 20 or 30 years ago. Maybe it never has mattered less since every manufacturer is going with longer risers & more parallel limbs. 🤔
Good Info Josh defiantly putting this in the tackle box for the future
Makes sense! I like this type of info makes it better on deciding on what bow to get. Just got the ventum pro 30. Absolutely love this bow
I live in Eugene and I really like u videos u very knowledge. I'm coming c u this spring
Interesting MFJJ. That does make sense. More info is always good. I’ll add this as a method to evaluate compound bows. Btw, had my string builder make me some natural BCY 454 low wax strings and cables for my Mathews Phase 4 33. Took your advice on the no dye, low wax. Very happy with the results! Thanks
Finally someone who thinks like me , i also care about cam lean at full draw vs at rest its something that has only recently been considered but ive always paid attention to the RISER.
Definitely just learned something new. Thanks.
Thanks for providing us with great information once again!
Additionally, would you consider doing a video on what you consider "great" and "acceptable" accuracy. Like great is 1" groups (or less) per 10 yards of range and acceptable is 1.5" per 10 yards of range (e.g. 4" at 40 or 6" at 40) with 3 to 5 arrows. Also, could you compare your shooting with the various releases - handheld thumb-actuated, hinge, and trigger finger-actuated to see if there is an appreciable difference in terms of accuracy and point of impact. Thanks again.
I would guess every flagship bow on the market is possible to shoot within those accuracy standards when properly set up. The bow fitment to the shooter and tune would have a large impact on those results which would vary from person to person.
@@jordanc1780 That is a great point - that the bows are inherently capable of tight groups. So, when the archer is added to the equation, the group size outside of the inherent capability of the bow is the archers fault. Then, what we need from MFJJ is what are the common faults in archers that cause poor shooting.
@@richarddean3154 I was just thinking the same thing. Many years ago I was dead set on upgrading my rig because it wasn’t shooting good for me. That kinda flipped on me when the guy helping me picked up my bow and drove tacks. Changed a couple of things and I was too!
Great to know. Maybe those specs should be included in your future bow reviews with a refresher of why they are important from time to time.
That is some very good information thanks for putting it out.
I like it Josh. Never thought about it that way. 🧐
Very informative I must say. It honestly makes total sense. Thank you!
I agree...good summary on what makes a bow forgiving to shoot. A lot of archers would shoot better if they focus more on bow design and less on speed. If you can't shoot it well, who cares how fast it shoots.
Thank you
Good info. Explains why I shoot Bear bows so well maybe. They don't get much more than a snarky response or comment most of the time but they are very easy to be accurate with bows. The newest Bear Execute 32 flagship measures 1.5 inches. The Moment from 2016 and 17 measures just under 2" and the Refine from last year measures just under 2". All very accurate and quick bows regardless of the brand they Bear, lol.
Thanks man
Never heard the term before “reflex” but makes sense
Great video great info keep them coming
Reflex and brace height is all I care about.
A2A and riser length make minimal impact on perf unless you're shooting ultra long range.
Brace height tells you how soon your arrow leaves the string and reflex tells you how easy it'll be to shoot regarding torquing - this is why I only buy recurve bows with the throat and plunger hole perfectly aligned (vertically).
Fantastic mfjj! It's about time someone provided real info rather than regurgitating marketing crap. I'm over 50 and have owned countless bows. Reasonable reflex, long riser (and associated weight) are key to accuracy. I currently shoot a 2015 Mathews Wake: 5lbs, 33.5 riser (35 ata), 3" reflex, 5" brace, and 352fps with smooth draw. 7 years ago when introduced the pundits said it was too heavy, long, expensive, and twitchy. If manufactured today it would be more or less inline with what the flagship bows are now....only faster thanks to the 5" brace height. The Wake was used to take gold in the 2016 50m womens European World Archery Cup, so it must have some level of forgiveness.
It's nice to see Mathews and others introducing flagship bows that are almost as good as a 7 year old bow. BTW, I use my Wake to hunt (stalk and tree stands), and it's not too heavy, long, or unforgiving.
Good video, 👍 I will add that a bow with a 7" brace height will always be more accurate because it helps settle and calm the bow down from wobbling or wagging the dog as I like to put it. Mathews has the greatest amount of side-to-side wobble in my oppinion and therefore when your watching a target bow being drawn back you can see the wobble more because of the longer stabilizers compared to a hunting bow set up. Manufacturers push and emphasis speed more than accuracy...it should be the othervway around...if your shooting a hunting set up @ 70 and 80 lbs then speed and less arrow cast becomes the overriding factor over accuracy. First an accurate bow almost always lands on a comfortable and manageable draw cycle....also I like to measure axcel to axcel and mark that center spot on the string then determine how that relates to the berger button location...you would be surprised how often those two locations don't line up....accurate bows most always line up in this regard....thanks again 🎯🎯🎯
Absolutely like the insight.
This makes sense based on my recent experience. It's the reflex dimension more than the riser length in this case. I tried to figure out why my new bow felt like a noodle (torquey) versus my other bow. I haven't measured those bows yet myself but they are among the ones you have measured in this video. My Bowtech is rock solid compared to brand X. I sold the brand X and moved onto brand Y which is more solid than the X but not as compared to the Bowtech. I will be measuring both today to see how they compare.
Brace height?
A couple of things that you should probably add here would be limb angle and cam system.
Riser length is not where any of your accuracy comes from, if it was then all of your manufacturers would be still be using risers longer than the ATA. Long risers create parallel limbs and reduce hand shock, they have no effect on accuracy. If we look at the target bows that have dominated over the years, PSE, Hoyt, Bowtech, older Mathews models, have all short, deflect risers with very steep limb angles. This creates an extremely stable and accurate bow and also reduces riser flex.
Cam systems are one of the most important part of creating an accurate bow. If we take a cam system like the cross centric cam, split yoke binary cam, even some hybrid cams, those cams are very particular about timing and typically the cable creep on these cam systems can greatly vary, thus affecting accuracy. Take a system like the parallel load binary cam or four track binary cam and those cams load the cables equally throughout the shot cycle, equalizing load and creep along the cables.
Could you make a video on how to know if your bow has any cam lean, and how to fix it? Could you also make a video on proper stand and form to shoot a bow more accurately? Thank You! , for another great video!!
You learn something everyday!
All sounds good to me. Thanks MFJJ.
Thanks again bud! You’re a good teacher
A well tuned bow with a brace height 6.75-7
Proper draw weight and practice
2018 Bowtech Realm has a 1 inch reflex and 28 inch riser. Now I know why it is so forgiving / accurate.
And I’ve won archery tournaments with a 1990s pse nova with wheels lol
Love these videos! So much insight that I had no clue on. Keep them coming. Also, you should really do those bow build videos ASAP. Been looking forward to those
This man is a wizard!!!
Agree with reflex, disagree with total riser length. Plenty of target bows don’t have risers that are close to the axle to axle measurements.
The Longer the risers the harder it takes to get out of plum which leads to more accuracy and more forgiving. It’s physics! Your right some older target bows risers are not close to the axle to axle length but the riser is still long! Now almost all target bows have long risers for this very fact.
great information keep up the great vids
The professor MFJJ , love the video's keep it coming
Well done, you need to show people how moving your rest forward or back can reduce torque caused by this
Makes sense!
Correct draw length, more brace, arrow with well balanced f.o.c, good form, 15 inch stabilizer, ergonomic release, tall bow…
Great videos, keep them coming
I shopped all of the bows this year, and found that the bowtechs held really nice but I was not a fan of the grip. This video shows there's a lot of nuance in bow buying, that's why it shouldn't be a rush decision! I ended up going with a prime inline 5 which was way longer than I had planned on buying of a bow. But of all the bows I shot this year, in my hand, it held more steady than any of them.
I also went with the Prime Inline 5 for the same reasons. It just flat out shoots which makes a lot of sense when you take into account the metrics in this video.
@@raywarner4704 100%. What options did you get? I went with 80 lb limbs and hammered gray finish. Can't wait. 4-6 week lead time because of the limbs. But worth it.
@@ApexPredatorOutdoors pretty basic setup for me - 70 lb, grey riser black limbs.
@@raywarner4704 Ita a great shooter either way! Enjoy!
More nerd stuff, I love it. The more info we have the more we can manipulate the numbers to make the bow we currently own the best there is!!! 😂Great job and keep up the good work. Hoyt Ventum 30
Love the explanation
Excellent!
Thank you MFJJ... My question would now be: What can I do to reduce the torque now that I found out my bow has a high reflex? Would a stabiliser with heavy forward weight make it better?
the numbers at the end of the video is a nice move. 👌 In theory, the measurements makes sense. I'm not doubting anything you say, you have 20 years experience, I've been shooting for 4.
Love the new intro but MAN y'all need to make an audio fade out for my headphones! Keep up the great content.
That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. We all know it’s the name of the bow that makes them more accurate. Ha ha. No this is some good stuff. Things I didn’t know. Thank you. I love learning what I can about bows and hunting. Thank you for giving us more knowledge.
I'm curious to know ATA lengths at full draw. It seems this would be the pivot point that's most important for torque while actually shooting. Great videos! Looking forward to your 3 bow builds!
ATA or string coming off the cam at full draw? I think the total distance between cam grooves where the string comes off is what really matters since every manufacturers cams are different sized and depending on your draw length will be coming off at a different part of the cam when it stops.
@@nathanwiens108 yea good point, some cams are really big now days. Agree 100% I'd like to see those numbers where string leaves the cam
I think grip and overall feel and draw cycle as well as wall and valley make each bow accurate to different sized people
I'll be waiting for that video.😉
Keep em coming
I think your inputs great
Thank You.
Great information! Can we get another video with all these measurements for all the bow reviews you have done in the last 2 years?
Thanks you for the info 👍
Really like the content!
I would be interested to see you do a video on the crazy looking Gearhead B34 bow. Its factory "specs" are spot on with the other major flagship bows around 33" ata, but the riser and handle position are a whole different concept with the 2 piece riser and adjustable brace height. Recently came across their bows at a hunting expo and nobody knowledgeable like you has done a critical review on them online. It has piqued my interest and I wonder if they are on to something or just crazy. Thanks for the content.
Hoyt use to build bows along with PSE that had a Deflex riser and not the prettiest thing to look at but tack drivers for sure
Good information, !!!
Good information
Good job , your videos rock.
The reflex distance you talked about make so much sense. I've been thinking about that for years and how that in theory should make a huge difference. Just went and shot a bowtech solution this year and bought it because it held so much more stable in the aspect of torque compared to my halon 6. Great video
Good info, thanks for it...
Please do a video on speed test consistency and causes of variability. I watched a comparison you did on a Mathews and Bowtech bow. The Bowtech speed fluctuated by about 10 FPS and the Mathews was about 3 FPS shooting 3 arrows each. A 10 FPS inconsistency would be noticeable to even an average archer at longer distances. Love watching your videos I have learned alot from them. Keep up the good work.
Funny cuz I watched a bowtech Zion video he did and the 3 arrows shot the same exact speed of 317 fps witch is zero deviation
I bet most of that speed variation is in the Chrono!