Loose Star Wars Fan: "We couldn't have known." Dedicated Star Wars Fan: "No, _you_ couldn't have known. You never know what is going on; that's what I'm for. But I never looked into Kennedy, I trusted her. I let her make fools of us all!" Loose Star Wars Fan: "Dedicated, WAAAAAAIIIIIIIITTTT!! We can stay here and talk about this right? Let's just talk..." Dedicated Star Wars Fan: "Talk about what? Talk about how our belief in Disney honoring the Legacy of George Lucas was based on a lie? What else is there to say?"
Tarkin - "Since you will not produce a movie without your politics, I have decided to fire your storygroup!" KK - "NO! The story group is diverse with so many voices that should be hea-" Tarkin - "You prefer I fire you? Or both? Then make a good film!" KK - Chews it over, then lies. "I'll... call JJ."
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I liked Jonathan's quote... and remember, Tarkin Was angry he'd been lied to, and so should all star wars fans. If trust has to be earned, KK and her lackeys failed big time.
I honestly don't understand how an undertaking like this has managed to fail so completely. They have all of the possible resources, and can't seem to even "turn on the lights" in the writer's room.
Disney's official reason was so that way he could "continue the bloodline through more natural means", but that palpatine sent him away because he couldnt stand the sight of him. Basically Disney couldnt make up their mind what Rey actually was, through some darts on a board, and somehow landed on both daughter of a failed clone, and grand daughter. They than decided that they could have it both ways, and crapped out the story that we now have before us.
@@WreckingCHeckProd If Palpatine really cared about continuing his bloodline at all, though, he had ample opportunities long before he was even elected chancellor.
Disney: Rey is noone > Rey is Palpatine's granddaughter > Rey is Palpatine's failed clones daughter. 3 contradictions in 2 movies that is a new record.
Calling Rise of Skywalker an adapted take on the Dark Empire comics is giving Disney way too much credit. It's obvious this clone nonsense was never the original plan and they just slapped it together last minute. To be frank, I don't think Disney was even inspired by the EU here, they were just desperate to fix the story and thought of the first quick and easy fix they would think of: Clones. That was the second best cliche they could have thought of, right after Palaptine's secret evil twin.
Yep. This 100%. The Rise of Palpatine bears absolutely *zero* resemblance to Dark Empire. I didn't even like Dark Empire, but it was better than TRoP. Also, I'd take Luuke over Jake Skywalker any day.
I remember when the novelizations and Visual Dictionaries were purely supplemental, and not seemingly vital in trying to Frankenstein your own headcanon into tattered, unfocused flotsam written by 15 different people with no general consensus met before the absurd deadlines they set for themselves. This whole trilogy and the products around it may all say Star Wars™, but when I see Kylo, Rey or even sweet little BB-8 on some innocuous packaging, I switch the fuck *off,* because Disney did nothing to make me care about them, and if anything, I associate them with the awful cultural swell of careless, frantic antipathy they brought to not only Star Wars, but the world.
Wait! Was it really consistent? I mean: Anakin in the Original Trilogy was a "good and just man" but wasn't a good, just or reasonable at all in the Prequel Trilogy. Then we have this focus on midicloreans, prophecies, cloning and battledroids in the prequels, which you hear nothing but one single line about in the originals ... I won't even start with pointing out the contenuity problems in the Clone Wars series and the EU/legends. (Anakin is not one character, but three characters with one name. Plus Vader.)
If I could fix the Lucasfilm Story Group I would have it comprised of: * Dave Filoni (Star Wars: The Clone Wars/Star Wars: Rebels) * Jon Favreau (Star Wars: The Clone Wars/The Mandalorian) * Timothy Zahn (Creator of Grand Admiral Thrawn and Mara Jade) * James Luceno (The New Jedi Order/Darth Plagueis) * Leland Chee (Holocron Continuity Keeper) * Pablo Hidalgo (Star Wars video game tester and continuity expert) * Katie Lucas (One of the children of George Lucas and wrote some episodes for Star Wars: The Clone Wars) * Charles Soule (Darth Vader) * Drew Kapyshyn (The Darth Bane Trilogy) * Michael Stackpole (X-Wing) * Kieron Gillen (Star Wars: Darth Vader 2015) * Claudia Gray (Lost Stars)
I love stackpoles books. I, Jedi was one of my favorite EU books. And him giving Anakin Solo some epic moments trying to get them to change his fate was very cool of him. I dont think he did any more books after that. And I get why.
I am honestly surprised, and ticked off, that Disney didn't bring back any of the old EU authors to help write this Project Luminous/High Republic era stuff. Why not? I know Zahn is working on his new Thrawn trilogy, but Stackpole, Traviss, Dennin, Luceno, etc would have brought a lot of gravitas to the project and made people have some hope for it.
"Story group" sounds like a circle of pre-teens or younger teens sitting around tossing wild plot ideas at each other with no real way of linking any of them together but wanting to use All Ideas anyway. Of which I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case here.
The new movies are just some 6-7 year olds playing with action figures.TFA “Oh no bb8s lost and is trapped.” “Don’t worry Rey is here!” TLJ “I am snoke and all powerful,” “then kylo turns the lightsaber and kills him!” TROS “oh no the carriers getting away and kylo Ren is coming to Rey!” “Rey pulls back the carrier to save Chewie!” “Kylo Ren pulls it back.” “And bang! The ship blows up!” “But where’s chewie?” “Don’t worry he’s in the next one!” You can apply child voices to the entire trilogy, the movies are basically, oh this person happens do this which happens to work which makes it so they happen to run into this person, etc.
If they aren't here for continuity than the story group has no reason to exist. I suspect what many fear; that they are ideologues pushing an agenda. If true, they have to go.
Seeing all these Diverse™ writing groups churning out all this corporate trash just makes my spirit ache. This does nothing for the stories, nothing for the fans, and if anything is just losing Disney money, and setting back or cheapening real progress that was fought so hard for by the real stunning and brave folks, not a hivemind Twitter collective whooping about racially diverse girl jedi on dinos having bisexually charged adventures. That's not what anyone asked of Star Wars, that's literally best left on fanfiction dot net
That, and product placement. Like the stupid "they fly now" speeder bikes. They were so concerned about selling toys they forgot the story and logic that sells them
Ok, they are called the Lucas "Story" group, but for the life of me, I still don't know what "Story" they were trying to tell! So after 3 movies,,, I'm left saying What Da?
So, a clone of Emperor Palpatine counts as a "nobody" now? Seriously, it takes less work to keep things straight than it does to keep finding new ways of messing things up.
I think they need a “content czar” or “content council,” yes; someone or a group of someones who guide the overall story of the franchise. There needs to be some way to ensure that the stories match up and don’t contradict one another as much as possible
There are two possibilities here: 1. The story group's job is to preserve continuity, and they're not doing their job, or 2. The story group's job is to ensure the quality of each individual story regardless of continuity with any other story, and there's no one left to preserve continuity, plunging the timeline into absolute chaos as Leland Chee is forced to sit idly by and do nothing about it
I thought you were going to end it differently. There are two possibilities here: 1. The story group's job is to preserve continuity, and they're not doing their job, or 2. The story group's job is to ensure the quality of each individual story regardless of continuity, and they're not doing their job.
Thor you should do a video on a full list of the pieces of legends that made it into the new canon/ disney star wars. Maybe talk about what would or wouldn't fit in the current lore.
@@thorskywalker Thor, could you make a poll about what fans think of Pablo Hidalgo (the head of LSG) and whether or not he should be replaced by Leland Chee?
Six years later and I’m still pissed about Disney’s decision to drop the EU. Can’t it just be continued? I’m still waiting . I don’t care about Disney canon AT ALL. I still want to see certain story lines from the EU continued.
They could have just as easily just started their own canon 50+ years after the OT (so starting up right after Crucible) and it would have only wiped out the Legacy comics (which would hurt a bit cause those were really, really good) but it would have allowed Disney to create their own characters and story lines but still have kept the hardcore Star Wars who had kept the franchise alive during the 'dark times' happy.
I certainly would've liked them to keep it. While I can understand why they did it business-wise, considering it got in the way of their plans, now that we got the Disney Trilogy I'm left wondering "Why?" Why did they feel like they needed to resurrect the Skywalker Saga (with their overbearing push of unnecessary SJ politics behind the scenes), when Clone Wars was doing a splendid job keeping the fandom alive and growing? Had they done good, I probably would've gladly accepted this change in lore. Heck, I accepted it as consequences of the trade! But now, it has all become pointless!
Just have it as alternate timelines damn And better follow new alternate timelines for new stories Fuck they have the world between worlds to kickstart it
Eu or the Star Wars legends was so confusing in my opinion I prefer the current Star Wars Canon, the new Canon has explain more stories and detail but they also trying to bring stories from legends
Well, they don’t want to paint Palpatine as a romantic. They don’t want to imply that he forced himself on someone. They don’t want to imply that he spent credits for it. All of these narrative gymnastics about clones are easier than explaining or admitting that Palpatine had sex. It’s hilarious but also sad.
Why not as Senator Palpatine pre-Phantom Menace though? Putting on a facade of loving father and husband in order to further his political career. Its not that obscene. Could possibly be something along the lines of Fhr Bradley in Full Metal Alchemist.
MJ Woodroff I think it’s because they don’t want to portray Palpatine as a sympathetic figure in any way. He is the purely evil force in those movies. All of the conflict is for the Skywalkers.
@@mjwoodroff8446 if he was a dad during Phantom Menace his son would be too old. He is old enough to be Anakin's grandad. So that story only flies if Rey is like his great-grandaughter. They painted themselves into a corner just by putting the "son of Palpatine" within the same generation as Luke as far as timeline. Now I'm okay with the idea a powerful man had sex. It doesn't have to be "romantic" or "love". But while Disney is no stranger to purely evil villains, Emperor Palpatine knocking up some concubine out of wedlock can't be sold to little kids. Disney just didn't want to deal with the timeline they created and the implications of a son that would have been born or very very young around the same time as Luke was born...which makes Palpatine very old at the time of his "natural" birth *if* they went down that path. So they went the "clone" path which is more alterable.
Palpatine never should’ve even been insinuated to have had an offspring anyways, we know if things had gone according to his plan he would have kept himself immortal from completing Plageius’s (don’t think I spelled that right) studies or at the very least probably made clones to contain his spirit in, like I know that’s what they did in the EU but it makes perfect sense for his character because he was so power hungry and dominant and he didn’t even care about the rule of two he just wanted to use Anakin’s power to serve his own purposes. But at the end of the day Palpatine wanted to be on top and never wanted to give that up, and I think that makes him too proud to even consider wanting any offspring and that his goal was basically to rule the galaxy forever so there wouldn’t be any point in one anyways.
They bought it because of the brand , but forgot the heart of star wars, completely mismanaged it , didn't plan out the story they were going to tell and let J Jonah Jokams poke holes in the plot and make a mary susan that always wins , already doing crap that young padawans couldn't do without training, and left them undeveloped mismanaged characters like finn that had potential and then left it to the next person to attempt to fix without a care in the world.
I’m starting to think getting rid of Kathleen Kennedy isn’t enough. They need to fire everyone in connection with episode seven, eight, and nine! These ridiculous retro explanations and story plots to try to make these bad movies seem more realistic are a complete failure!
Back in 2012 I would of been all full working for Lucasfilm on writing Star Wars stories, now being a writer myself, I don't want to get anywhere near the franchise anymore.
Yeah I was glad at first Disney got Star Wars. I was hoping they would adapt the EU. Then they scrapped the EU 'because it would be too hard to adapt them to film.'...
Same here. I was born in 2007, but my dream is if I was born in 1977 (the exact year A New Hope was released). If this dream was truth, I would have certainly written several stories or comics to the EU. But as for now, the actual world, I will only write stories to my own head canon (the EU mostly). I won't even give a single help to what many people call Disney's fan-fictions.
I only saw TRoS once, but didn’t Ben say “I didn’t lie to you, they sold you to protect you,” after in Last Jedi he said her parents sold her “for drinking money?”
Leif Vernaculum Exactly, because Ruin Johnson didn't care about what TFA set up or what would come after TLJ so he said "fuck it" and did whatever he wanted because he could. That's why JJ had to come in with TRoS and tried to salvage what was left of his story
For the end question, no I don't think they can do things the way they're doing them and have it work. They can either say "Don't worry about continuity, everything is separate and we're just telling cool stories set in some version of the universe you're familiar with." or they can do what they've done and say "Everything matters and everything is canon." If they go the "everything matters" route, then they NEED a story group that's actually approving stories, planning out stories, and keeping a close eye on continuity. If they're not doing that, who is? If they have no one officially doing that, then they've done a pretty good job of it, which is to say a bad job, but a good job for not having anyone steering the ship. If they do have someone doing it, they need to do it better. You can wing it for three movies in the late 70s and early 80s and manage to make them all good and cohesive. When you have a media empire of stuff coming out regularly, you've got to choose: Do you have quality continuity control and planning, or do you just not give a damn?
The best part is during an interview where Mark is saying his character has no story and it's up to the book writers and video games to tell Luke's story in detail, Kathleen stood up, straight faced too, and said that Luke had a story in the upcoming film. Yeah, because Last Jedi really went into detail on what happened with Luke. Rise of Skywalker was a joke, anyone looking for answers from it for the sake of closure got the short end. Rian gets a lot of flak but JJ is just as guilty. He never laid out anything beyond the first film he did and was happy to walk away leaving all the plot holes to be sorted out by the next guy. For him to come back, wave his hand saying that he'll fix the issues with Last Jedi like he was the victim is just ridiculous. JJ never had a plan, Rian never had a plan. No one, Kathleen included, sat down and figured out what the overall story would be going through the new trilogy. She was happy to just chuck the EU in the trash, say they are free to write anything and then she hid away pushing blame onto someone else for her lack of oversight.
Nao Shadowpaws your perspective needs adjustment. FACTS are this: JJ had an outline, Rian Johnson threw it all out and kept nothing CONFIRMED by the cast. JJ came back to try to salvage what he had been given as all of his setups were destroyed and he wasn’t supposed to be doing ix
R R O Sure dude, the guy who was behind Lost had an outline. Even his Star Trek movies are disconnected one offs with the same characters and nothing else connecting them. But you go on believing the guy was capable of pulling off a storyline for three movies when he couldn't even slap a cohesive one together for the first one he did
The Sequel Trilogy was set up to fail from the opening crawl in TFA. Just not many people saw it. The opening crawl in TFA doesn't setup how or why the Resistance has come to be and who the First Order are. That's a big failure right there. The awful Aftermath books had to fill that gap. Then Rian comes along and pretty much checks out every arc that JJ had setup to do his own thing. This should have been in the story group's purview but it wasn't and we get to where we are. A crap sandwich of a trilogy, the first ever Star Wars box office bomb and a fan base very divided of those that are still left.
Fans cared, Lucasfilm and Disney and the writers and directors they hired never did. They saw Star Wars as a way to either push social agenda and change, or a way to sell toys and merchandise. Story was way way down on the list of things they cared about. What they liked was how well known Star Wars was and the monetary strength of the IP. They saw Dollar signs and they saw fans as imbeciles, who would pay anything for any crap with Star Wars on it.
I feel lied to and betrayed by Kathleen Kennedy. Before any of the new movies came out She promised George Lucas (and by extension the fans) "The main thing is to protect these characters. Make sure that they still continue to live in the way you (Lucas) created them and that the universe of Star Wars continues to grow." She either failed miserably, or lied to George/the fans bc we got the exact opposite. When fans disliked TLJ for any reason(s) (good or bad) Kennedy failed as a business professional when she blamed the fans for her mess. In business if the product or franchise as a whole isn't profitable it's The Boss's fault, not all the employees and certainly not the damn fan base.
@Thanos 6.0 Mark Hamill Admitted he was DISAPPOINTED With How Luke Skywalker was Portrayed In Star Wars: The Last Jedi. He claimed, he was "Insulted" and that it "Demoralized" the Character.
@@calebtrains2261 not arguing, more agreeing and adding onto. Mark stated in multiple interviews how upset he was at what they did to luke, even calling the movie a failure and telling people not to see it. According to him he complained all the time on set about how he disliked what they were doing to luke and how he felt like luke would not do what they were making him do, all falling on deaf ears.
9:56 Oh my God that guy irritates me more and more. He wasn't fitting for the role of a Star Wars movie creator at all. I didn't know he looked at it that way. That's literally so stupid. It's like you said with Captain America. It's as if they hired him to make a new movie to already existing interconnected Marvel Cinematic Universe, which fans fell in love with because of it having all the movies connected, but then Ryan comes and says "Oh, I don't care about consistency, I just want to tell a good story", so he makes Captain America evil from the very beginning and actually the father of Iron Man, who was originally a female. You know, all of that could be interesting, but only as a separate story. In a separate universe. A new series. But not in a series that is already established and has people who enjoy it. You have to be careful with such things, but he was so ignorant (and the one responsible for choosing him is an ignorant too) that he thought we wouldn't care either? Idk man I just got really pissed off because of that. Who let him write for Star Wars arghhh...
Szczypior He was hand picked by the CEO of a company that cannot being herself to say she “loves” her main product line. I’ll let you take a guess at who that is. That aside, RJ is a complete asshole.
@@georgebowling560 i agree honestly jj didnt make it any easier because HE DIDNT WRITE A STORY TO BEGIN WITH. You cant make a new hope and slap jj abrhams visuals on it and call it a new movie. Lucas should sue disney for plagerism
The fact that Rian Johnson was constantly in contact with the "Story Group" and thus had a significant influence on the presented lore in TLJ tells you what kind of joke this group is.
The very fact that they keep retconing just to justify sequel trilogy is BEYOND PATHETIC!they should either ignore sequels like it never exist or make it legends and canonize old EU as an animated show be held by john and filoni otherwise they are just keep reminding us why we hate them in the first place!
I think equal to the sanctity of continuity is also making sure secondary sources of story actually carry weight. Before Episode IX, I read both the novel and comic series that supposedly led up to the film. Honestly, I didn't really feel any better prepared for the film than someone who had only seen trailers. The Resistance recruited more people and swiped some ships. I mean, it was cool seeing Wedge again in the novel more than his half second on screen in the movie. And I also noticed Yendor, the blue Twi'lek X-Wing pilot from Lost Stars who also featured in the Resistance Reborn novel, for another half second in the movie. That was all cool, I guess. I feel like the movies missed a serious opportunity to tie themselves into other material, which fans wanted. I remember the crazy theory that went around that Zorii Bliss was actually Ahsoka in disguise. That could have been a wonderful moment to acknowledge and demonstrate the importance to the fandom of these characters from shows, books, and comics to the overall universe. I've decided recently that I personally feel the movies are often the weakest source of story for Star Wars. Shows, books, and comics have done so much better.
@@rlosable That's 👏 their 👏 fault 👏, 👏 write 👏 an 👏 outline 👏 of 👏 the 👏 beginning 👏 then 👏 an 👏 end 👏 of 👏 the 👏 story👏 , 👏 develop👏 it add 👏 to 👏 it 👏 and 👏 change 👏 things 👏 overtime 👏 if 👏 you 👏 feel 👏 that 👏 is 👏 what's 👏 best. Boom, good story.
@@gamingcantina9157 actually: write an outline. The walk away from it for a few days. And then try to break it! Think critically about your own work or have someone else do it!
Dead Purple how would it be hard? They basically had a full script for so many movies. They just had to adapt it faithfully and not drastically change the story or characters
That Star Wars actually work on, and values, keeping continuity is a joke. And as such I don't care any more. I'm sure one stand alone movie could be good cinema. But I don't care about its spot in the universe any more. The Star Wars universe is broken. To have fun in it again, I, now, have to go around reassembling it myself. Picking and chosing what goes in and what stays out of my personal cannon. This sucks !!
I actually got to meet Pablo Hidalgo a couple years ago and we chatted about Star Wars for a bit. The guy is legit. Really knows his shit. I asked him a question about that one Clawdite bounty hunter from The Clone Wars (I wasn’t sure how much of her disguises were shapeshifting and how much were just a hologram) and knew exactly who I was talking about, even her name, and he gave me a satisfying answer. Really nice guy too, he signed my DVD of Rebels season 1. I think the problem is that, ultimately, the filmmakers are going to want to go off in their own direction and the story group can do little about it. Each film has had contradictions that have needed to be explained by novelizations or visual dictionaries. That shouldn’t be happening. The new books and comics have been pretty consistent, but if they don’t line up with the new movies anyway, why did they find it necessary to discontinue the Expanded Universe? They could have two timelines going on at the same time, I don’t think it would be confusing. Just publish new EU books under the Legends banner. Simple!
just found your channel last night and have to say I really like the questions you bring up. Love your channel! This one was the best I've listened to so far. Star Wars is my favorite franchise (even with all the in-continuity) And I very much agree with you on this 110%. This is exactly what hurt the Sequel trilogy, the team as a whole not heading towards a "final goal". And in my opinion, why the Marvel Infinity Saga worked and succeed SO well. They were consistent, working towards a final fight and even if they had some weird or "off" movies, they didnt spend the next movie reversing where they messed up.
Your one of my favorite Star Wars knowledge UA-camr with Star Wars theory Edit thanks for the likes and why are you arguing about Star Wars theory he is just a passionate fan who loves Star Wars
@Carlos It was sent to him directly from Del Rey, the publisher of the book. Just because he likes TROS doesn't mean he's sold out or has become "a shill", he genuinely liked the movie and that's his prerogative, he still loves Star Wars...as do we all. That's why we're here, because we love Star Wars.
Three things that come to my mind while watching this video: 1. In my honest opinion, bringing Palpatine back in this way is where it already went wrong. 2. If I remember correctly, Poe Dameron's background story was also retconned? TROS says he was a spice dealer, comics says he was a Republic pilot before a Resistance pilot.. Something like that. 3. Thanks for your amazing content Thor. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one with concerns on all the things adressed on this channel.
Thor I really love your channel maybe even favorite. It’s objective and not just hate. I like that you make pull‘s it’s like your own thing. Continue your great work and I hope you get one day over 1 Million Subs
If they don't tell the audience in the movie, then the audience doesn't *know* ... and it *still* doesn't make the movie any better. After watching TRoP, the biggest cringe I had (and still have) is the idea of post RotS, scarred-up creamy Sheev getting his "OH face" on. You know that Sheev has a bunch of Tinder profiles up now, right? ...Thanks Jar-Jar.
When Bob Iger, Disney CEO baught Star wars he said its was because he was really afraid of the potential competition. He rather own it but really didn't care if it went well
I feel your pain, and I am so embarrassed now. Before "The Rise of Palpatine" I constantly defended TLJ and said "We don't know what happened to Luke yet!" Then when the Title for the next movie was revealed I told everyone "See! He's coming back! This is gonna be AWESOME!!!" I wish I could hide my head in a hole. I'm glad I changed jobs, because I honestly don't know how I could face the people I used to talk to at my old work. I feel like a simpering, gullible fool. I even kind of *hate* Star Wars now. I am *SO* done with Disney.
@@invisiblehand13 I honestly think it's all Rian Johnson's fault. I loved TFA, and it looked like the trilogy had potential. But then Johnson was like, "nope, I've got a different idea", and made his own script, his own tone, his own logic, instead of staying on the same ship as TFA. So then J.J. had to try and fix it by doing a different tone again. Think about it. TROS wouldn't be the way it was, if RJ wasn't like, "screw it, this is my trilogy!"
Tyler Prather yeah but even so I feel like JJ would’ve just preyed on people’s nostalgia anyways and not made anything new which is a safe bet for fan service and probably a decent box office return but horrendous for leaving a lasting impression
You're right that consistency is important. Because without it, nothing that happens in the story matters. You might miss half the story because you put so much energy into wondering what will come about as a consequence of a thing that happened early on.
These movies are like taking some ideas of the EU and making them shitty. Disney started strong and ended by driving off a cliff and killing star wars for me, after being a life time fan and reading all the EU. I loved TFA, and Rogue one. Then it all came crashing down.
Andy Prime I agree with Rogue One. I disagree with TFA. I did like it about half way through until Rey unknowingly got her force powers. It through me off.
@@YesuaTheSpy In my defense, I assumed that would be explained by her being lukes kid or what not later. I forgave alot of things thinking they had a long term plan....
Consistency for the long term matters so much more than telling an interesting story in the moment removed from previous canon. That constancy is why I, a guy who wasn't even born when the OT originally released, still cares about Luke, Leia, Han, Vader, and the entire story of the trilogy. That trilogy has a message and that message was preserved though the consistency of the canon (at least in the movies). It's such a slap in the face to see any part of that OT retconed or erased. It feels like caring about something for years only to be told that it doesn't matter, it never mattered. And if I can see 40 years of history just be erased like that, I cannot become invested in new stories because I know if in the back of my head I know they can just retcon this entire thing in the next 5 years. Star Wars is and always has been a Saga. Each movie impacts each other and makes the story of the Skywalkers richer. The Sequels (mostly the Last Jedi) destroyed this concept. It's insulting, it's illogical, it's destroy the story and symbolism of what Star Wars represents.
Johnson's quotes are very telling. CLEARLY, he was a bad choice for a sequel AND bad choice for a shared universe. This is on and a failure of Kathleen Kennedy too. This is clearly a similar issue with JJ Abrams. Two of Johnson's quotes, the one here about him not 'caring about the larger universe or story consistency' and his older well known quote along the lines of, 'I want to make films half the people love and half the people hate', both remind me of the weak, obvious in built defence, the kinds of which an immature school kid would hide behind for not writing a very good story.
Dark Empire was laughed at even back then, and generally ignored by most people including George. ALSO, it was written before George, the L.O.R.E. master, decided to make Anakin's sacrifice a big deal (instead of simply a bad guy defeated).
To be honest, I'm quite surprised that this so called "story group" even still exists. I thought they'd given up on that venture, because it sure feels that way. That being said, I absolutely understand the desire to create your own thing, to have your own iconic characters, ships, planets and scenes. If you want all that, why not go and create your own thing? What good does it do to anybody if you buy a giant legacy franchise only to crap all over said legacy? You can either create something new, where you are free to do what you want and cultivate a loyal fanbase of your own, or you can take over a property with an existing fanbase, where you have to take into consideration what those fans want. Taking something with an existing fanbase, scrapping it all and creating your own thing on top while keeping all the fans will *never* work. You have to treat your fans like customers. How can one of the biggest corporations on the face of planet Earth be so bad at business?
All they care about is sending a message When they're setting these kinda epic remakes / sequels up Three questions should matter above all else "Are you a fan?" "Do you understand what is required?" "Can you keep your personal bullshit out of it?"
There really should be a person or persons in charge of the overall universe continuity. Love or hate the prequels, at least George had a consistent vision while making them. Yes, some things differed from some mentions in the original trilogy, but he was the creator and he decided to change some aspects to better fit the story he wanted to tell, and not just to try and make another successful film franchise.
Great video. I appreciate the explanation of what the story group actually does. I think consistency is the large story is so important. Like you said, of they can just override a story I love in the next one then it seems silly to get invested into this stories and characters.
Having Rey be the daughter of a failed clone just makes her (stupidly overpowered) force powers even more ridiculous... This new trilogy is such a mess!
I actually got to meet Pablo Hidalgo a couple years ago and we chatted about Star Wars for a bit. The guy is legit. Really knows his shit. I think the problem is that, ultimately, the filmmakers are going to want to go off in their own direction and the story group can do little about it. Each film has had contradictions that have needed to be explained by novelizations or visual dictionaries. This shouldn’t be happening.
@@emberfist8347 As much as we'd all probably like that, it's not happening. Disney's put too much money into their continuity to quit now. They're stuck in a sunk cost fallacy of quite mindboggling proportions.
What made the MCU so great in phase 1 was the beginning of different directors with interpretations of these classic characters like Favreau's Iron Man and Johnson's Captain America in an interconnected universe and building towards something big. There was a plan for these characters' endgame. I noticed in phase 3 of the MCU that the sense of variety of visions from different directors was lacking, but the story still followed through--building to that same endgame. I think the lack of visionary variety comes from this need of producing 2-4 Marvel movies in a year to keep the story moving when Disney bought Marvel Studios. Lucasfilm--post Disney purchase--did not seem to build towards a respective endgame for these established characters. They didn't seem to pull from any lore from legends to continue the narrative or add substance, unlike the MCU, whose synopsis came from the comics. We have the director's flare from JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson, but a reactionary Star Wars sequel trilogy was present. You can't make a reactionary narrative based on what the audience thought of their movies, especially for Star Wars. You need to plan a synopsis that respects the past and embraces a future. Ironically, both of these franchises, which started because a story needed to be told from Lucas or Feige, have shifted towards a corporate mindset as to how they can keep making money. In my mind, these franchises are the biggest problem with the film/entertainment industry as a whole: committees or studios pushing out projects in an attempt to make money instead of respecting the medium as an art form and putting passion into a story.
I would say that the problem is arrogance and elitism with the creatives of Lucasfilm. They are convinced that they know what is best (both in story and culturally) for the audience and they are going to push it no matter our reactions. If you throw in a bit of narcissism, then you can see why they do not take criticism well. My personal opinion is that they are talentless hacks that were hired based on their ability to kiss butt and have the correct political ideology.
This breaks my heart. Star Wars (for me) has always been about the incredible STORY about detailed characters with their flaws, challenges and development. Then the MUSIC enhances and elaborates the story being told.
Book adaptations should be supplemental, not tell the story that the movie couldn't be bothered to tell. Why doesn't modern LF/Disney get this? Not that the additions make anything any better. In some cases, they make things much worse.
It doesn’t help that they keep retconning these sequel stories daily to try to prop their house of cards up. Just another reason to just ignore these stupid movies.
The fact that Ryan Johnson said he didn’t care about the bigger picture, only the story he’s trying to tell just shows he was going to fail before he even started.
Does the story group actually do anything, aside from some of them having antagonistic relations with fans? The fact that Matt Martin doesn't know something that important (sure, I guess importance can be debated, but come on...) is kinda shocking. It wasn't in the one he read and he thought it was clickbait? The fact he thought it was clickbait seems to indicate that maybe he agrees it's dumb, perhaps...? IDK. The story group isn't that big. Maybe he wasn't the lead on the movie or book, but you'd think they'd discuss things like this that may have major implications. Being called the story group and not being the ones prioritizing consistency sounds contradictory. If they're not keeping things in line, who is?
I thought the main purpose of making the EU non-cannon was so they could make a coherent EU. Lucasfilms has no idea what they are doing. It's scary when one hand doesn't know what the other is doing.
I remember hearing about a system to keep continuity which would have all canonical information, so that no-one would accidentally destroy past ideas. Basically "This is what has been said, and where it was said, don't go breaking it.".
I think Disney is uncomfortable with the implication that to have children, Palpatine had to have copulated with a woman. Personally I would have liked them to expand the dark side to include all base emotions; anger, fear and aggression but also greed and yes, lust. I realize it is a disney film, but being bold enough to include other aspects of the dark side we haven't seem might be interesting Besides, you can look at real life to see billionaires with their trophy wives and mistresses. Are you telling me in the whole galaxy there is not one woman who would be willing to be with the emperor of the galaxy? Historically being the concubine to an emperor conveys a LOT of power when it comes to court politics. Such women often have the emperor's ear in matters or can place seeds of thought. I think Rey being the daughter of a clone works better if they were going to heel turn her. Think about it, Rey is told she is the direct relation to Palpatine. That makes her the heir to his throne. Imagine if Rey turned to Kylo and said 'why should I help you take what is rightfully mine?' See, it was my understanding that cloning force users was EXTREMELY dangerous because the force was limited by a force user's understanding of reality. Go back to Dagobah when Yoda lifted the x-wing. 'I don't believe it' said Luke. 'That is why you failed'. So the belief and understanding of what can and cannot happens limits how effective a jedi can use the force. Such beliefs are ingrained in all beings based on their experience of growing up in the galaxy. But clones don't have that. Their perception of reality is flash learned into them. So you can alter a clone's beliefs in reality and, if they are a force user, remove that lack of belief in the power of the force. The only problem with that is that you have a clone that is extremely powerful and has a warped sense of reality and is probably insane. Think of it like this: you can move your arms and legs and stretch your muscles. You can even stimulate and grow your muscles to become stronger. But your body had a limit on how much the muscles can move to prevent the muscles from breaking the body's bones. It's a natural inhibitor. The force kinda has the same thing with a user's belief in reality limiting the force they can use. Jedi train to relax those beliefs but never truly leave reality behind. But a clone with an altered flash learning of what reality is? Say such alterations are on a genetic level and have Rey start to succumb to madness.... But alas, we got what we got.
Yeah, but Star Wars has featured literal child massacres and mass homicide but it was effective to tell the story they wanted to tell in episode 3. That’s the clear difference, is people who cared about the story more than making a quick buck. George might have made mistakes in the prequels but he did his best to tell the story he wanted to tell and that’s more than the sequels have ever done. It’s no secret: clone wars, rogue one, the mandalorian, fallen order, the good parts of Disney’s Star Wars are the ones that care about exploring the galaxy in a way that makes sense. That’s not really your point, but I’m just saying the franchise before Disney was made for kids, George said that himself, but they also weren’t afraid to introduce mature themes (I mean think of all the dark moments clone wars had). The animated Batman series from the 90’s was the same way, never really crossed the line but wasn’t afraid to explore bold issues and those types of projects stick with you the most.
@@emberfist8347 Lust and love are not the same. It would be a different sort of corruption, one that focused on excess and pleasure for its own sake. But again, this is getting into quite dark territory that might not be Disney approved.
I know this is an incredibly small part of your video, but I wanted to comment on it anyway. I've been a Star Wars fan all my life, but I'm technically new to the scene despite that since I was born in 2000. I loved Luke in the OT and I loved him in TLJ, and honestly you're the first person to disagree with my enjoyment of Luke's character in TLJ in a respectful and understanding manner, and I want to sincerely thank you for being so kind and respectful to the other opinions that people might have about something that you feel strongly about
The only thing Disney has done different from what Lucas did, in relation to the Expanded Universe/Legends, is that they were upfront about it not being canon. Lucas never, ever held himself beholden to the EU. He always considered them just stories and were never canon. The only things Lucas considered to be canon were the movies, clone wars, and rebels. KK was even less beholden to canon. Nothing she did directly or indirectly respected canon and the Story Group. It’s hard to hold the Story Group responsible when KK does not bother with them.
Why did they have to demote Leland Chee? That guy is more open-minded and modest than Pablo Hidalgo. The best way to maintain continuity is to make one multimedia project once in a while and only to promote a movie or a video game.
Thank you. Sure TCW could've been handled a little better in the continuity (that's a rabbit hole right there however) but he did his best to attempt make things work.
Would they PLEASE FINALLY get rid of Kennedy and her insufferable "StORyGroUp". Disney won´t see another $ as long as this witch and her pets are around !
I wish that were true but sadly there’s too many people who were all into frozen and the Disney Princess movies and the other Disney media then Disney got Star Wars and they had to hop on the bandwagon to fit in with everyone and they’ll just spend money to pretend to be plugged in when they don’t really care what actually goes on
I think consistency is so much important on films that its between comics, for example, since those nom-Lucas stories have always been like on a lesser canon tier than the films, since the EU
It’s ok for characters to evolve and change but at their core, people tend to stay the same. Luke Skywalker never gave up on Darth Vader. One of the most evil and murderous characters in the saga but his son believed in that small part of Anakin alive inside him. Kenobi and Yoda didn’t believe it was possible to redeem him. Luke did and he succeeded. This is why there is no way Luke would never under any circumstance think of killing his nephew. That changes Luke who he was at his core. Then he’s not Luke Skywalker. Even Mark Hamill hated this Luke. He called him Jake Skywalker. I gave this trilogy a chance but honestly I’m just going to go reread the Legends stories.
Don't make yourself suffer as a SW fan (anymore). We got 6 great movies, a ton of amazing games, books, etc. and we should appreciate that. No king rules forever, so in that sense, acknowledge that SW is dead by now but we have got all the great memories that we can always return back to.
I was personally more pf the impression that they were basically quality control for the writers: they would have the power to veto things that conflict with cannon (and a significant portion of the day-to-day work would be keeping up with cannon) and have large influence if not veto power over thematic content as well. That’s probably what they should be, anyways.
She lied to us, terminate her contract immediately.
-Tarkin
Jonathan Ryan
Why would you change the original quote? There is really no need
I found it humorous to change the quote but pretend that'swhat he actually said. No other reason. ;)
Loose Star Wars Fan: "We couldn't have known."
Dedicated Star Wars Fan: "No, _you_ couldn't have known. You never know what is going on; that's what I'm for. But I never looked into Kennedy, I trusted her. I let her make fools of us all!"
Loose Star Wars Fan: "Dedicated, WAAAAAAIIIIIIIITTTT!! We can stay here and talk about this right? Let's just talk..."
Dedicated Star Wars Fan: "Talk about what? Talk about how our belief in Disney honoring the Legacy of George Lucas was based on a lie? What else is there to say?"
Tarkin - "Since you will not produce a movie without your politics, I have decided to fire your storygroup!"
KK - "NO! The story group is diverse with so many voices that should be hea-"
Tarkin - "You prefer I fire you? Or both? Then make a good film!"
KK - Chews it over, then lies. "I'll... call JJ."
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I liked Jonathan's quote... and remember, Tarkin Was angry he'd been lied to, and so should all star wars fans. If trust has to be earned, KK and her lackeys failed big time.
Not to be beholden to decades of material, then complain about not having material and having to start from nothing....
Them: Source material is too restrictive!
Them five minutes later: How can we tell a proper story with no source material?
And then stealing a lot of ideas from decades of material
Honestly they should have used the same stories but time shifted them to the next generation of jedi, Jacen, Jania, and anakin.
Legends to canon: You couldn’t live with your own failure, and where has that brought you? Back to me
Kathleen in a nutshell
I honestly don't understand how an undertaking like this has managed to fail so completely. They have all of the possible resources, and can't seem to even "turn on the lights" in the writer's room.
Completely agree.
This whole Sequel era is mind boggling in its lacking of planning, passion and creative vision.
@@christianfarren1179 "lacking of planning, passion and creative vision" ... you just described most of modern entertainment
Mathieu Bishop Dark times indeed...
God, this is funny.
No, it’s more like they learned how to turn on the lights with mandolorian but they forgot to pay the electricity bill
Why would “all powerful, hellbent on ruling the galaxy with an iron fist at all costs” Palpatine even allow a “failure” of a clone to live?
I'm imagining a robot chicken parody, with Palpatine popping up behind Vader bragging about he's a father and Vader getting all jealous and angry.
Jonathan Ryan Now I’m imagining the Robot Chicken GI Joe spoof on the Cobra clones.
Exactly.
Disney's official reason was so that way he could "continue the bloodline through more natural means", but that palpatine sent him away because he couldnt stand the sight of him. Basically Disney couldnt make up their mind what Rey actually was, through some darts on a board, and somehow landed on both daughter of a failed clone, and grand daughter. They than decided that they could have it both ways, and crapped out the story that we now have before us.
@@WreckingCHeckProd If Palpatine really cared about continuing his bloodline at all, though, he had ample opportunities long before he was even elected chancellor.
Disney:
Rey is noone > Rey is Palpatine's granddaughter > Rey is Palpatine's failed clones daughter.
3 contradictions in 2 movies that is a new record.
Two movies and a book
Actually it starts with “Rey is someone special but we won’t tell you, yet” on Episode 7.
Rey is like the Joker. She has a million backstories and they're all canon.
atoth62 “Do you wanna know how I got all these scars?”
@@atoth62 so that's the real reason Luke trained her
Calling Rise of Skywalker an adapted take on the Dark Empire comics is giving Disney way too much credit. It's obvious this clone nonsense was never the original plan and they just slapped it together last minute.
To be frank, I don't think Disney was even inspired by the EU here, they were just desperate to fix the story and thought of the first quick and easy fix they would think of: Clones. That was the second best cliche they could have thought of, right after Palaptine's secret evil twin.
Yep. This 100%.
The Rise of Palpatine bears absolutely *zero* resemblance to Dark Empire.
I didn't even like Dark Empire, but it was better than TRoP. Also, I'd take Luuke over Jake Skywalker any day.
Best comment I've come across here. I totally agree with you
Now , if his evil twin had a gotee..... 😁
General Kenobi!
It could be worse. There could be time travel. ;)
Old Star Wars wasn't perfect but at least it had a consistent story. This new Star Wars just feels all over the place and was clearly NOT planned out.
I remember when the novelizations and Visual Dictionaries were purely supplemental, and not seemingly vital in trying to Frankenstein your own headcanon into tattered, unfocused flotsam written by 15 different people with no general consensus met before the absurd deadlines they set for themselves. This whole trilogy and the products around it may all say Star Wars™, but when I see Kylo, Rey or even sweet little BB-8 on some innocuous packaging, I switch the fuck *off,* because Disney did nothing to make me care about them, and if anything, I associate them with the awful cultural swell of careless, frantic antipathy they brought to not only Star Wars, but the world.
Princess Rainbovvs X Musashi To be fair, Kylo was the only interesting one
@@IceSkateUpHilll Kylo is a shitty knockoff of Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus, just more of a Emo bitch.
@@qualityautismNoah And his name is a rip off from the cartoon droids where was Kybo Ren
Wait! Was it really consistent?
I mean: Anakin in the Original Trilogy was a "good and just man" but wasn't a good, just or reasonable at all in the Prequel Trilogy. Then we have this focus on midicloreans, prophecies, cloning and battledroids in the prequels, which you hear nothing but one single line about in the originals ... I won't even start with pointing out the contenuity problems in the Clone Wars series and the EU/legends. (Anakin is not one character, but three characters with one name. Plus Vader.)
"You have failed me for the last time, Kathleen Kennedy."
If only...
ItsRyanYT The destiny is yours Revan, not mine.
ItsRyanYT ”you are no longer my apprentice”
Lucas killed his own creation by hiring Kennedy.
Then force choke that dumb bitch out lol
“Do they really care about canon and continuity?”
No, next question.
Are any of them even Star Wars fans at all?
If I could fix the Lucasfilm Story Group I would have it comprised of:
* Dave Filoni (Star Wars: The Clone Wars/Star Wars: Rebels)
* Jon Favreau (Star Wars: The Clone Wars/The Mandalorian)
* Timothy Zahn (Creator of Grand Admiral Thrawn and Mara Jade)
* James Luceno (The New Jedi Order/Darth Plagueis)
* Leland Chee (Holocron Continuity Keeper)
* Pablo Hidalgo (Star Wars video game tester and continuity expert)
* Katie Lucas (One of the children of George Lucas and wrote some episodes for Star Wars: The Clone Wars)
* Charles Soule (Darth Vader)
* Drew Kapyshyn (The Darth Bane Trilogy)
* Michael Stackpole (X-Wing)
* Kieron Gillen (Star Wars: Darth Vader 2015)
* Claudia Gray (Lost Stars)
That would be ideal
I love stackpoles books. I, Jedi was one of my favorite EU books. And him giving Anakin Solo some epic moments trying to get them to change his fate was very cool of him. I dont think he did any more books after that. And I get why.
Kevin J. Anderson (The Jedi Academy Trilogy/Tales of the Jedi Comic Series)
Chris Avellone (KOTOR 2/Jedi Fall Order)
This is so good
I am honestly surprised, and ticked off, that Disney didn't bring back any of the old EU authors to help write this Project Luminous/High Republic era stuff. Why not? I know Zahn is working on his new Thrawn trilogy, but Stackpole, Traviss, Dennin, Luceno, etc would have brought a lot of gravitas to the project and made people have some hope for it.
When the story group doesn't even know how to write at all or what even writing is about.
"Story group" sounds like a circle of pre-teens or younger teens sitting around tossing wild plot ideas at each other with no real way of linking any of them together but wanting to use All Ideas anyway.
Of which I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case here.
Well, looking at the "idea board" for the high Republic, that is pretty much what you describe.
@@emberfist8347 Idd😅
You got the ages way to high for what we’ve seen on screen
The new movies are just some 6-7 year olds playing with action figures.TFA “Oh no bb8s lost and is trapped.” “Don’t worry Rey is here!” TLJ “I am snoke and all powerful,” “then kylo turns the lightsaber and kills him!” TROS “oh no the carriers getting away and kylo Ren is coming to Rey!” “Rey pulls back the carrier to save Chewie!” “Kylo Ren pulls it back.” “And bang! The ship blows up!” “But where’s chewie?” “Don’t worry he’s in the next one!” You can apply child voices to the entire trilogy, the movies are basically, oh this person happens do this which happens to work which makes it so they happen to run into this person, etc.
If they aren't here for continuity than the story group has no reason to exist.
I suspect what many fear; that they are ideologues pushing an agenda. If true, they have to go.
Seeing all these Diverse™ writing groups churning out all this corporate trash just makes my spirit ache. This does nothing for the stories, nothing for the fans, and if anything is just losing Disney money, and setting back or cheapening real progress that was fought so hard for by the real stunning and brave folks, not a hivemind Twitter collective whooping about racially diverse girl jedi on dinos having bisexually charged adventures. That's not what anyone asked of Star Wars, that's literally best left on fanfiction dot net
That, and product placement. Like the stupid "they fly now" speeder bikes. They were so concerned about selling toys they forgot the story and logic that sells them
This comment read like a prequel quote and I mean that in a good way. I love it
They have no ideology but profit. Corporatism.
Oh, we are way through the looking glass now
Definitely!
Ok, they are called the Lucas "Story" group, but for the life of me, I still don't know what "Story" they were trying to tell! So after 3 movies,,, I'm left saying What Da?
So, a clone of Emperor Palpatine counts as a "nobody" now?
Seriously, it takes less work to keep things straight than it does to keep finding new ways of messing things up.
I think they need a “content czar” or “content council,” yes; someone or a group of someones who guide the overall story of the franchise. There needs to be some way to ensure that the stories match up and don’t contradict one another as much as possible
That's what they have and it doesn't work
*Kevin Fiege has entered the chat*
Like I said before, if they don't care, why should I?
Got a problem... there been a massive problem since Disney took over Star Wars
Disney IS the problem.
There are two possibilities here: 1. The story group's job is to preserve continuity, and they're not doing their job, or 2. The story group's job is to ensure the quality of each individual story regardless of continuity with any other story, and there's no one left to preserve continuity, plunging the timeline into absolute chaos as Leland Chee is forced to sit idly by and do nothing about it
I thought you were going to end it differently.
There are two possibilities here: 1. The story group's job is to preserve continuity, and they're not doing their job, or 2. The story group's job is to ensure the quality of each individual story regardless of continuity, and they're not doing their job.
Thor you should do a video on a full list of the pieces of legends that made it into the new canon/ disney star wars. Maybe talk about what would or wouldn't fit in the current lore.
Very interesting idea.
@@thorskywalker Ugh, I dont even want to think of how badly they would damage EU stories like they did With the Emperor Clone stuff.
@@thorskywalker Thor, could you make a poll about what fans think of Pablo Hidalgo (the head of LSG) and whether or not he should be replaced by Leland Chee?
There is absolutely no hope for Star Wars as long Kennedy is still in a job.
Trevor Random that’s just not true at all. Disney will learn from their mistakes
@@sportscommentaryplus4445 Hope they do
KSUWILDCATS7 I hope
I hate hope. It's overused - and his fuel ran out long ago.
I hope for one good movie in ten years. Like that one Joker movie in the DC movie galaxy.
999999SkyGuy what else can we do
Six years later and I’m still pissed about Disney’s decision to drop the EU. Can’t it just be continued? I’m still waiting . I don’t care about Disney canon AT ALL. I still want to see certain story lines from the EU continued.
They could have just as easily just started their own canon 50+ years after the OT (so starting up right after Crucible) and it would have only wiped out the Legacy comics (which would hurt a bit cause those were really, really good) but it would have allowed Disney to create their own characters and story lines but still have kept the hardcore Star Wars who had kept the franchise alive during the 'dark times' happy.
I certainly would've liked them to keep it. While I can understand why they did it business-wise, considering it got in the way of their plans, now that we got the Disney Trilogy I'm left wondering "Why?" Why did they feel like they needed to resurrect the Skywalker Saga (with their overbearing push of unnecessary SJ politics behind the scenes), when Clone Wars was doing a splendid job keeping the fandom alive and growing?
Had they done good, I probably would've gladly accepted this change in lore. Heck, I accepted it as consequences of the trade! But now, it has all become pointless!
Just have it as alternate timelines damn
And better follow new alternate timelines for new stories
Fuck they have the world between worlds to kickstart it
Eu or the Star Wars legends was so confusing in my opinion I prefer the current Star Wars Canon, the new Canon has explain more stories and detail but they also trying to bring stories from legends
@@josermaiz how are you confused? I have read many of the books and never had any real issues.
Well, they don’t want to paint Palpatine as a romantic. They don’t want to imply that he forced himself on someone. They don’t want to imply that he spent credits for it. All of these narrative gymnastics about clones are easier than explaining or admitting that Palpatine had sex. It’s hilarious but also sad.
He shouldn't be portrayed as a romantic or any of those things. Asexual Palpatine works best.
Why not as Senator Palpatine pre-Phantom Menace though? Putting on a facade of loving father and husband in order to further his political career. Its not that obscene. Could possibly be something along the lines of Fhr Bradley in Full Metal Alchemist.
MJ Woodroff I think it’s because they don’t want to portray Palpatine as a sympathetic figure in any way. He is the purely evil force in those movies. All of the conflict is for the Skywalkers.
@@mjwoodroff8446 if he was a dad during Phantom Menace his son would be too old. He is old enough to be Anakin's grandad. So that story only flies if Rey is like his great-grandaughter. They painted themselves into a corner just by putting the "son of Palpatine" within the same generation as Luke as far as timeline.
Now I'm okay with the idea a powerful man had sex. It doesn't have to be "romantic" or "love". But while Disney is no stranger to purely evil villains, Emperor Palpatine knocking up some concubine out of wedlock can't be sold to little kids. Disney just didn't want to deal with the timeline they created and the implications of a son that would have been born or very very young around the same time as Luke was born...which makes Palpatine very old at the time of his "natural" birth *if* they went down that path. So they went the "clone" path which is more alterable.
Palpatine never should’ve even been insinuated to have had an offspring anyways, we know if things had gone according to his plan he would have kept himself immortal from completing Plageius’s (don’t think I spelled that right) studies or at the very least probably made clones to contain his spirit in, like I know that’s what they did in the EU but it makes perfect sense for his character because he was so power hungry and dominant and he didn’t even care about the rule of two he just wanted to use Anakin’s power to serve his own purposes. But at the end of the day Palpatine wanted to be on top and never wanted to give that up, and I think that makes him too proud to even consider wanting any offspring and that his goal was basically to rule the galaxy forever so there wouldn’t be any point in one anyways.
Disney buying Star Wars was the single worst thing to ever happen to the entertainment industry
They bought it because of the brand , but forgot the heart of star wars, completely mismanaged it , didn't plan out the story they were going to tell and let J Jonah Jokams poke holes in the plot and make a mary susan that always wins , already doing crap that young padawans couldn't do without training, and left them undeveloped mismanaged characters like finn that had potential and then left it to the next person to attempt to fix without a care in the world.
I’m starting to think getting rid of Kathleen Kennedy isn’t enough. They need to fire everyone in connection with episode seven, eight, and nine! These ridiculous retro explanations and story plots to try to make these bad movies seem more realistic are a complete failure!
I'll have to agree with this.
Even Finn's actor he was really excited to be there
Back in 2012 I would of been all full working for Lucasfilm on writing Star Wars stories, now being a writer myself, I don't want to get anywhere near the franchise anymore.
Yeah I was glad at first Disney got Star Wars. I was hoping they would adapt the EU.
Then they scrapped the EU 'because it would be too hard to adapt them to film.'...
Same here.
I was born in 2007, but my dream is if I was born in 1977 (the exact year A New Hope was released). If this dream was truth, I would have certainly written several stories or comics to the EU. But as for now, the actual world, I will only write stories to my own head canon (the EU mostly). I won't even give a single help to what many people call Disney's fan-fictions.
Same here as an animator..but now,absolutely not!!!
You might want to learn how the word "have" is spelled.
In other words, the "story group" is doing absolutely nothing. That's _worse_ than if they were actually supposed to be making sure continuity works.
So basically you're saying they're like the Imperial Senate. That is, it's just for show.
I only saw TRoS once, but didn’t Ben say “I didn’t lie to you, they sold you to protect you,” after in Last Jedi he said her parents sold her “for drinking money?”
Leif Vernaculum Exactly, because Ruin Johnson didn't care about what TFA set up or what would come after TLJ so he said "fuck it" and did whatever he wanted because he could. That's why JJ had to come in with TRoS and tried to salvage what was left of his story
@@shadow-squid4872 what story, the force awakens sucked giant hairy yeast covered balls and had less story than a newspaper add.
George Bowling True, but as much as I hate it I will admit that it at least had a somewhat decent plot, even though it was a complete copy of ANH
@@shadow-squid4872 copies don't get credit just ask any of my high school teachers or college professors.
George Bowling it was unique enough to be its own thing. It feels more like a bad parody than a clone.
For the end question, no I don't think they can do things the way they're doing them and have it work. They can either say "Don't worry about continuity, everything is separate and we're just telling cool stories set in some version of the universe you're familiar with." or they can do what they've done and say "Everything matters and everything is canon." If they go the "everything matters" route, then they NEED a story group that's actually approving stories, planning out stories, and keeping a close eye on continuity. If they're not doing that, who is? If they have no one officially doing that, then they've done a pretty good job of it, which is to say a bad job, but a good job for not having anyone steering the ship. If they do have someone doing it, they need to do it better. You can wing it for three movies in the late 70s and early 80s and manage to make them all good and cohesive. When you have a media empire of stuff coming out regularly, you've got to choose: Do you have quality continuity control and planning, or do you just not give a damn?
The best part is during an interview where Mark is saying his character has no story and it's up to the book writers and video games to tell Luke's story in detail, Kathleen stood up, straight faced too, and said that Luke had a story in the upcoming film. Yeah, because Last Jedi really went into detail on what happened with Luke. Rise of Skywalker was a joke, anyone looking for answers from it for the sake of closure got the short end. Rian gets a lot of flak but JJ is just as guilty. He never laid out anything beyond the first film he did and was happy to walk away leaving all the plot holes to be sorted out by the next guy. For him to come back, wave his hand saying that he'll fix the issues with Last Jedi like he was the victim is just ridiculous. JJ never had a plan, Rian never had a plan. No one, Kathleen included, sat down and figured out what the overall story would be going through the new trilogy. She was happy to just chuck the EU in the trash, say they are free to write anything and then she hid away pushing blame onto someone else for her lack of oversight.
Nao Shadowpaws your perspective needs adjustment. FACTS are this: JJ had an outline, Rian Johnson threw it all out and kept nothing CONFIRMED by the cast. JJ came back to try to salvage what he had been given as all of his setups were destroyed and he wasn’t supposed to be doing ix
R R O Sure dude, the guy who was behind Lost had an outline. Even his Star Trek movies are disconnected one offs with the same characters and nothing else connecting them. But you go on believing the guy was capable of pulling off a storyline for three movies when he couldn't even slap a cohesive one together for the first one he did
The Sequel Trilogy was set up to fail from the opening crawl in TFA. Just not many people saw it. The opening crawl in TFA doesn't setup how or why the Resistance has come to be and who the First Order are. That's a big failure right there. The awful Aftermath books had to fill that gap. Then Rian comes along and pretty much checks out every arc that JJ had setup to do his own thing. This should have been in the story group's purview but it wasn't and we get to where we are. A crap sandwich of a trilogy, the first ever Star Wars box office bomb and a fan base very divided of those that are still left.
Fans cared, Lucasfilm and Disney and the writers and directors they hired never did. They saw Star Wars as a way to either push social agenda and change, or a way to sell toys and merchandise. Story was way way down on the list of things they cared about. What they liked was how well known Star Wars was and the monetary strength of the IP. They saw Dollar signs and they saw fans as imbeciles, who would pay anything for any crap with Star Wars on it.
JJ did write story treatments for 8 & 9, but Johnson threw them away and wrote his own story instead
I feel lied to and betrayed by Kathleen Kennedy. Before any of the new movies came out She promised George Lucas
(and by extension the fans)
"The main thing is to protect these characters. Make sure that they still continue to live in the way you (Lucas) created them and that the universe of Star Wars continues to grow." She either failed miserably, or lied to George/the fans bc we got the exact opposite. When fans disliked TLJ for any reason(s) (good or bad) Kennedy failed as a business professional when she blamed the fans for her mess. In business if the product or franchise as a whole isn't profitable it's The Boss's fault, not all the employees and certainly not the damn fan base.
@Thanos 6.0 Mark Hamill Admitted he was DISAPPOINTED With How Luke Skywalker was Portrayed In Star Wars: The Last Jedi. He claimed, he was "Insulted" and that it "Demoralized" the Character.
@@calebtrains2261 not arguing, more agreeing and adding onto.
Mark stated in multiple interviews how upset he was at what they did to luke, even calling the movie a failure and telling people not to see it. According to him he complained all the time on set about how he disliked what they were doing to luke and how he felt like luke would not do what they were making him do, all falling on deaf ears.
9:56 Oh my God that guy irritates me more and more. He wasn't fitting for the role of a Star Wars movie creator at all.
I didn't know he looked at it that way.
That's literally so stupid.
It's like you said with Captain America.
It's as if they hired him to make a new movie to already existing interconnected Marvel Cinematic Universe, which fans fell in love with because of it having all the movies connected, but then Ryan comes and says "Oh, I don't care about consistency, I just want to tell a good story", so he makes Captain America evil from the very beginning and actually the father of Iron Man, who was originally a female.
You know, all of that could be interesting, but only as a separate story. In a separate universe. A new series.
But not in a series that is already established and has people who enjoy it.
You have to be careful with such things, but he was so ignorant (and the one responsible for choosing him is an ignorant too) that he thought we wouldn't care either?
Idk man I just got really pissed off because of that. Who let him write for Star Wars arghhh...
KK
KKK ( Kunt )
He only made an awful thing worse, it was really bad from the start and as far as I'm concerned nothing Disney has made is star wars, period.
Szczypior He was hand picked by the CEO of a company that cannot being herself to say she “loves” her main product line. I’ll let you take a guess at who that is.
That aside, RJ is a complete asshole.
@@georgebowling560 i agree honestly jj didnt make it any easier because HE DIDNT WRITE A STORY TO BEGIN WITH. You cant make a new hope and slap jj abrhams visuals on it and call it a new movie. Lucas should sue disney for plagerism
This is like discussing who broke something after it’s been broken. They messed up and it cannot be fixed.
"I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate"
"What does that make us?"
@@noahfessenden6478 absolutely nothing!
The fact that Rian Johnson was constantly in contact with the "Story Group" and thus had a significant influence on the presented lore in TLJ tells you what kind of joke this group is.
Jar Jar was worse tbh
The very fact that they keep retconing just to justify sequel trilogy is BEYOND PATHETIC!they should either ignore sequels like it never exist or make it legends and canonize old EU as an animated show be held by john and filoni otherwise they are just keep reminding us why we hate them in the first place!
I think equal to the sanctity of continuity is also making sure secondary sources of story actually carry weight. Before Episode IX, I read both the novel and comic series that supposedly led up to the film. Honestly, I didn't really feel any better prepared for the film than someone who had only seen trailers. The Resistance recruited more people and swiped some ships. I mean, it was cool seeing Wedge again in the novel more than his half second on screen in the movie. And I also noticed Yendor, the blue Twi'lek X-Wing pilot from Lost Stars who also featured in the Resistance Reborn novel, for another half second in the movie. That was all cool, I guess. I feel like the movies missed a serious opportunity to tie themselves into other material, which fans wanted. I remember the crazy theory that went around that Zorii Bliss was actually Ahsoka in disguise. That could have been a wonderful moment to acknowledge and demonstrate the importance to the fandom of these characters from shows, books, and comics to the overall universe. I've decided recently that I personally feel the movies are often the weakest source of story for Star Wars. Shows, books, and comics have done so much better.
Anyone else getting the strong feeling that someone ran into the writers' room after all the reviews came out and shouted "FIX THIS.... NOW!!!!"
Ehm, i got this feeling last year in October 2019.
Maybe J.J. will tell the story in his book some day.
What a failure. 🙄🙊
@@999999SkyGuy maybe they had a list of issues: fix in reshoots, fix in post, fix in novelization, fix via interview and fix by random tweet
@@rlosable That's 👏 their 👏 fault 👏, 👏 write 👏 an 👏 outline 👏 of 👏 the 👏 beginning 👏 then 👏 an 👏 end 👏 of 👏 the 👏 story👏 , 👏 develop👏 it add 👏 to 👏 it 👏 and 👏 change 👏 things 👏 overtime 👏 if 👏 you 👏 feel 👏 that 👏 is 👏 what's 👏 best. Boom, good story.
@@gamingcantina9157 actually: write an outline. The walk away from it for a few days. And then try to break it! Think critically about your own work or have someone else do it!
@@rlosable All cuz Dickney and J Jonah Jokams mismanaged star wars. it's great, haha not. 😂
Remember Pablo Hildago said the reason why Disney had to scrap the EU was because it would be hard to adapt them to films...
Let that sink in.
Dead Purple how would it be hard? They basically had a full script for so many movies. They just had to adapt it faithfully and not drastically change the story or characters
Why Marvel has no problems?
@@sharpshooterjames8891 Hey don't ask me, ask Pablo Hildago that one.
@@goodmind4940 That's the irony.
Hidalgo was the one who made that decision, not Disney.
That Star Wars actually work on, and values, keeping continuity is a joke. And as such I don't care any more. I'm sure one stand alone movie could be good cinema. But I don't care about its spot in the universe any more. The Star Wars universe is broken. To have fun in it again, I, now, have to go around reassembling it myself. Picking and chosing what goes in and what stays out of my personal cannon. This sucks !!
I actually got to meet Pablo Hidalgo a couple years ago and we chatted about Star Wars for a bit. The guy is legit. Really knows his shit. I asked him a question about that one Clawdite bounty hunter from The Clone Wars (I wasn’t sure how much of her disguises were shapeshifting and how much were just a hologram) and knew exactly who I was talking about, even her name, and he gave me a satisfying answer. Really nice guy too, he signed my DVD of Rebels season 1. I think the problem is that, ultimately, the filmmakers are going to want to go off in their own direction and the story group can do little about it. Each film has had contradictions that have needed to be explained by novelizations or visual dictionaries. That shouldn’t be happening. The new books and comics have been pretty consistent, but if they don’t line up with the new movies anyway, why did they find it necessary to discontinue the Expanded Universe? They could have two timelines going on at the same time, I don’t think it would be confusing. Just publish new EU books under the Legends banner. Simple!
Alden Ehrenreich isn't Kylo Rens father, he's a failed clone of Kylo's father.
just found your channel last night and have to say I really like the questions you bring up. Love your channel! This one was the best I've listened to so far. Star Wars is my favorite franchise (even with all the in-continuity) And I very much agree with you on this 110%. This is exactly what hurt the Sequel trilogy, the team as a whole not heading towards a "final goal". And in my opinion, why the Marvel Infinity Saga worked and succeed SO well. They were consistent, working towards a final fight and even if they had some weird or "off" movies, they didnt spend the next movie reversing where they messed up.
Your one of my favorite Star Wars knowledge UA-camr with Star Wars theory
Edit thanks for the likes and why are you arguing about Star Wars theory he is just a passionate fan who loves Star Wars
Thank you, I appreciate you saying that.
@Carlos that is questionable sir coming from a simp
@Carlos why lol
*you're
@Carlos It was sent to him directly from Del Rey, the publisher of the book. Just because he likes TROS doesn't mean he's sold out or has become "a shill", he genuinely liked the movie and that's his prerogative, he still loves Star Wars...as do we all. That's why we're here, because we love Star Wars.
Three things that come to my mind while watching this video:
1. In my honest opinion, bringing Palpatine back in this way is where it already went wrong.
2. If I remember correctly, Poe Dameron's background story was also retconned? TROS says he was a spice dealer, comics says he was a Republic pilot before a Resistance pilot.. Something like that.
3. Thanks for your amazing content Thor. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one with concerns on all the things adressed on this channel.
Thor I really love your channel maybe even favorite. It’s objective and not just hate. I like that you make pull‘s it’s like your own thing. Continue your great work and I hope you get one day over 1 Million Subs
Thor: "Unfortunately that's not how the story group works"
Decades of Star Wars fans: "Well that's how it should bloody should well work!"
If they don't tell the audience in the movie, then the audience doesn't *know* ... and it *still* doesn't make the movie any better.
After watching TRoP, the biggest cringe I had (and still have) is the idea of post RotS, scarred-up creamy Sheev getting his "OH face" on.
You know that Sheev has a bunch of Tinder profiles up now, right? ...Thanks Jar-Jar.
When Bob Iger, Disney CEO baught Star wars he said its was because he was really afraid of the potential competition. He rather own it but really didn't care if it went well
Iger strikes me as a corporate tool more than anything else. I'm not surprised.
Porgs and baby Yodas for all. Movies be damned.
Wow. Why did I use to like The Last Jedi? Even the director doesn't care about consistency. That's irresponsible.
I feel your pain, and I am so embarrassed now.
Before "The Rise of Palpatine" I constantly defended TLJ and said "We don't know what happened to Luke yet!" Then when the Title for the next movie was revealed I told everyone "See! He's coming back! This is gonna be AWESOME!!!"
I wish I could hide my head in a hole. I'm glad I changed jobs, because I honestly don't know how I could face the people I used to talk to at my old work. I feel like a simpering, gullible fool.
I even kind of *hate* Star Wars now.
I am *SO* done with Disney.
@@invisiblehand13 I honestly think it's all Rian Johnson's fault. I loved TFA, and it looked like the trilogy had potential. But then Johnson was like, "nope, I've got a different idea", and made his own script, his own tone, his own logic, instead of staying on the same ship as TFA. So then J.J. had to try and fix it by doing a different tone again.
Think about it. TROS wouldn't be the way it was, if RJ wasn't like, "screw it, this is my trilogy!"
Tyler Prather yeah but even so I feel like JJ would’ve just preyed on people’s nostalgia anyways and not made anything new which is a safe bet for fan service and probably a decent box office return but horrendous for leaving a lasting impression
@@bigblue207 Rian didnt do anything new either so id rather have safe and fan pleasing than a boring, lore breaking and character assasinating rehash.
Just out of curiosity - why did you like TLJ exactly? What aspects made you think it was a good film and why?
Not an attack, just an honest question
You're right that consistency is important. Because without it, nothing that happens in the story matters. You might miss half the story because you put so much energy into wondering what will come about as a consequence of a thing that happened early on.
These movies are like taking some ideas of the EU and making them shitty. Disney started strong and ended by driving off a cliff and killing star wars for me, after being a life time fan and reading all the EU. I loved TFA, and Rogue one. Then it all came crashing down.
I agree. TFA and Rogue one were the last good star wars movies. Last jedi was the first nail in the coffin for me
Andy Prime I agree with Rogue One. I disagree with TFA. I did like it about half way through until Rey unknowingly got her force powers. It through me off.
henry Stratemeyer
I agree with everything except that TFA was a good movie, it was only good because it was just a new hope remixed
@@YesuaTheSpy In my defense, I assumed that would be explained by her being lukes kid or what not later. I forgave alot of things thinking they had a long term plan....
@@Mythonaut After the prequels, I was okay with that, honestly.
Consistency for the long term matters so much more than telling an interesting story in the moment removed from previous canon. That constancy is why I, a guy who wasn't even born when the OT originally released, still cares about Luke, Leia, Han, Vader, and the entire story of the trilogy. That trilogy has a message and that message was preserved though the consistency of the canon (at least in the movies).
It's such a slap in the face to see any part of that OT retconed or erased. It feels like caring about something for years only to be told that it doesn't matter, it never mattered. And if I can see 40 years of history just be erased like that, I cannot become invested in new stories because I know if in the back of my head I know they can just retcon this entire thing in the next 5 years.
Star Wars is and always has been a Saga. Each movie impacts each other and makes the story of the Skywalkers richer. The Sequels (mostly the Last Jedi) destroyed this concept. It's insulting, it's illogical, it's destroy the story and symbolism of what Star Wars represents.
Johnson's quotes are very telling. CLEARLY, he was a bad choice for a sequel AND bad choice for a shared universe. This is on and a failure of Kathleen Kennedy too. This is clearly a similar issue with JJ Abrams.
Two of Johnson's quotes, the one here about him not 'caring about the larger universe or story consistency' and his older well known quote along the lines of, 'I want to make films half the people love and half the people hate', both remind me of the weak, obvious in built defence, the kinds of which an immature school kid would hide behind for not writing a very good story.
Dark Empire was laughed at even back then, and generally ignored by most people including George. ALSO, it was written before George, the L.O.R.E. master, decided to make Anakin's sacrifice a big deal (instead of simply a bad guy defeated).
To be honest, I'm quite surprised that this so called "story group" even still exists. I thought they'd given up on that venture, because it sure feels that way.
That being said, I absolutely understand the desire to create your own thing, to have your own iconic characters, ships, planets and scenes. If you want all that, why not go and create your own thing? What good does it do to anybody if you buy a giant legacy franchise only to crap all over said legacy?
You can either create something new, where you are free to do what you want and cultivate a loyal fanbase of your own, or you can take over a property with an existing fanbase, where you have to take into consideration what those fans want. Taking something with an existing fanbase, scrapping it all and creating your own thing on top while keeping all the fans will *never* work.
You have to treat your fans like customers. How can one of the biggest corporations on the face of planet Earth be so bad at business?
Thor: Henceforth... Palpatine: Happy Sheev noises
She’s his granddaughter from certain point of view-obi wan
All they care about is sending a message
When they're setting these kinda epic remakes / sequels up
Three questions should matter above all else
"Are you a fan?"
"Do you understand what is required?"
"Can you keep your personal bullshit out of it?"
When he said "Overlord," anyone else say to themselves "DVD?"
There really should be a person or persons in charge of the overall universe continuity. Love or hate the prequels, at least George had a consistent vision while making them. Yes, some things differed from some mentions in the original trilogy, but he was the creator and he decided to change some aspects to better fit the story he wanted to tell, and not just to try and make another successful film franchise.
Disney fell into their Own Mouse Trap for this Sequel Trilogy
Great video. I appreciate the explanation of what the story group actually does.
I think consistency is the large story is so important. Like you said, of they can just override a story I love in the next one then it seems silly to get invested into this stories and characters.
Having Rey be the daughter of a failed clone just makes her (stupidly overpowered) force powers even more ridiculous... This new trilogy is such a mess!
the force skips a generation...like male pattern baldness.
I actually got to meet Pablo Hidalgo a couple years ago and we chatted about Star Wars for a bit. The guy is legit. Really knows his shit. I think the problem is that, ultimately, the filmmakers are going to want to go off in their own direction and the story group can do little about it. Each film has had contradictions that have needed to be explained by novelizations or visual dictionaries. This shouldn’t be happening.
The only way to fix Star Wars is to reboot the franchise.
Sadly that means Star Wars is truly dead.
Except it’s not dead. It’s not going to be rebooted.
@@achaudhari101 It's on life support undergoing chemotherapy.
And it's not going to be rebooted...
Yet.
I mean, we could just do what they did to the EU.
Excise it.
Of course, Disney has sunk way too much money into their era to do that.
@@emberfist8347 As much as we'd all probably like that, it's not happening.
Disney's put too much money into their continuity to quit now. They're stuck in a sunk cost fallacy of quite mindboggling proportions.
@@emberfist8347
Really, I don't want to see what the current Lucasfilm writers will do to the EU.
What made the MCU so great in phase 1 was the beginning of different directors with interpretations of these classic characters like Favreau's Iron Man and Johnson's Captain America in an interconnected universe and building towards something big. There was a plan for these characters' endgame. I noticed in phase 3 of the MCU that the sense of variety of visions from different directors was lacking, but the story still followed through--building to that same endgame. I think the lack of visionary variety comes from this need of producing 2-4 Marvel movies in a year to keep the story moving when Disney bought Marvel Studios.
Lucasfilm--post Disney purchase--did not seem to build towards a respective endgame for these established characters. They didn't seem to pull from any lore from legends to continue the narrative or add substance, unlike the MCU, whose synopsis came from the comics. We have the director's flare from JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson, but a reactionary Star Wars sequel trilogy was present. You can't make a reactionary narrative based on what the audience thought of their movies, especially for Star Wars. You need to plan a synopsis that respects the past and embraces a future.
Ironically, both of these franchises, which started because a story needed to be told from Lucas or Feige, have shifted towards a corporate mindset as to how they can keep making money.
In my mind, these franchises are the biggest problem with the film/entertainment industry as a whole: committees or studios pushing out projects in an attempt to make money instead of respecting the medium as an art form and putting passion into a story.
I would say that the problem is arrogance and elitism with the creatives of Lucasfilm.
They are convinced that they know what is best (both in story and culturally) for the audience and they are going to push it no matter our reactions. If you throw in a bit of narcissism, then you can see why they do not take criticism well.
My personal opinion is that they are talentless hacks that were hired based on their ability to kiss butt and have the correct political ideology.
I agree 100%
Rogue One was good because the director cared. Almost everybody who cared bailed by now because Disney is so hard to work with
This breaks my heart. Star Wars (for me) has always been about the incredible STORY about detailed characters with their flaws, challenges and development. Then the MUSIC enhances and elaborates the story being told.
Book adaptations should be supplemental, not tell the story that the movie couldn't be bothered to tell. Why doesn't modern LF/Disney get this?
Not that the additions make anything any better. In some cases, they make things much worse.
I always loved that we have a story group specifically to keep things in check. After TROS, it's apparent that they're not doing what should be done
"They make sure things haven't been done before" How then, did TFA totally rip off New Hope? Did the story group just not see that film? LMAO.
I'm fearful of what their answer would be to, "What would you say you do here?" Kudos on adding that at the end.
It doesn’t help that they keep retconning these sequel stories daily to try to prop their house of cards up. Just another reason to just ignore these stupid movies.
@Geostomp... I completely agree.
At this point, they might as well save face and just call them what-if side stories. Better than them constantly humiliating themselves like this.
The fact that Ryan Johnson said he didn’t care about the bigger picture, only the story he’s trying to tell just shows he was going to fail before he even started.
If only if they planned this from the start.. with bringing Lucus in as creative consultant... Do you think they have learnt from their mistakes?
They didn't, next movie is slated to 2022, two years is not enough
Nope
I agree 1000% with you.
I'm older star wars fan who grew up with the original trilogy. Consistency of the story is most important.
Does the story group actually do anything, aside from some of them having antagonistic relations with fans?
The fact that Matt Martin doesn't know something that important (sure, I guess importance can be debated, but come on...) is kinda shocking. It wasn't in the one he read and he thought it was clickbait? The fact he thought it was clickbait seems to indicate that maybe he agrees it's dumb, perhaps...?
IDK. The story group isn't that big. Maybe he wasn't the lead on the movie or book, but you'd think they'd discuss things like this that may have major implications.
Being called the story group and not being the ones prioritizing consistency sounds contradictory. If they're not keeping things in line, who is?
Alex Hayden Agreed!!
2:48 OMG, I can't stop laughing. That is hilariously beautiful!
I thought the main purpose of making the EU non-cannon was so they could make a coherent EU. Lucasfilms has no idea what they are doing. It's scary when one hand doesn't know what the other is doing.
Dark Helmet: I am your father’s brother’s nephew’s cousin’s former roommate.
Lone Star: So what does that make us?
Dark Helmet: Absolutely nothing.
Thor you deserve the name Skywalker more than Rey
I remember hearing about a system to keep continuity which would have all canonical information, so that no-one would accidentally destroy past ideas. Basically "This is what has been said, and where it was said, don't go breaking it.".
Lucasfilm needs a CEO that actually loves Star Wars, that’s all.
You get an alternate reality, and YOU get an alternate reality, and YOU GET AN ALTERNATE REALITY!
Legends may have been a unrefined in some places, but they could've just fixed it instead of rewriting it
Heck, that's what some stories did in between. It wasn't much but it was still something.
My friend remembers reading an old Star Wars novel where Luke and Leia got married and had kids. Obviously the book came out before the second movie.
I think Disney is uncomfortable with the implication that to have children, Palpatine had to have copulated with a woman.
Personally I would have liked them to expand the dark side to include all base emotions; anger, fear and aggression but also greed and yes, lust. I realize it is a disney film, but being bold enough to include other aspects of the dark side we haven't seem might be interesting
Besides, you can look at real life to see billionaires with their trophy wives and mistresses. Are you telling me in the whole galaxy there is not one woman who would be willing to be with the emperor of the galaxy? Historically being the concubine to an emperor conveys a LOT of power when it comes to court politics. Such women often have the emperor's ear in matters or can place seeds of thought.
I think Rey being the daughter of a clone works better if they were going to heel turn her. Think about it, Rey is told she is the direct relation to Palpatine. That makes her the heir to his throne. Imagine if Rey turned to Kylo and said 'why should I help you take what is rightfully mine?'
See, it was my understanding that cloning force users was EXTREMELY dangerous because the force was limited by a force user's understanding of reality. Go back to Dagobah when Yoda lifted the x-wing. 'I don't believe it' said Luke. 'That is why you failed'. So the belief and understanding of what can and cannot happens limits how effective a jedi can use the force. Such beliefs are ingrained in all beings based on their experience of growing up in the galaxy. But clones don't have that. Their perception of reality is flash learned into them. So you can alter a clone's beliefs in reality and, if they are a force user, remove that lack of belief in the power of the force. The only problem with that is that you have a clone that is extremely powerful and has a warped sense of reality and is probably insane.
Think of it like this: you can move your arms and legs and stretch your muscles. You can even stimulate and grow your muscles to become stronger. But your body had a limit on how much the muscles can move to prevent the muscles from breaking the body's bones. It's a natural inhibitor. The force kinda has the same thing with a user's belief in reality limiting the force they can use. Jedi train to relax those beliefs but never truly leave reality behind. But a clone with an altered flash learning of what reality is?
Say such alterations are on a genetic level and have Rey start to succumb to madness....
But alas, we got what we got.
Yeah, but Star Wars has featured literal child massacres and mass homicide but it was effective to tell the story they wanted to tell in episode 3. That’s the clear difference, is people who cared about the story more than making a quick buck. George might have made mistakes in the prequels but he did his best to tell the story he wanted to tell and that’s more than the sequels have ever done. It’s no secret: clone wars, rogue one, the mandalorian, fallen order, the good parts of Disney’s Star Wars are the ones that care about exploring the galaxy in a way that makes sense. That’s not really your point, but I’m just saying the franchise before Disney was made for kids, George said that himself, but they also weren’t afraid to introduce mature themes (I mean think of all the dark moments clone wars had). The animated Batman series from the 90’s was the same way, never really crossed the line but wasn’t afraid to explore bold issues and those types of projects stick with you the most.
@@bigblue207 But that was before disney....
@@emberfist8347 Lust and love are not the same. It would be a different sort of corruption, one that focused on excess and pleasure for its own sake.
But again, this is getting into quite dark territory that might not be Disney approved.
I know this is an incredibly small part of your video, but I wanted to comment on it anyway. I've been a Star Wars fan all my life, but I'm technically new to the scene despite that since I was born in 2000. I loved Luke in the OT and I loved him in TLJ, and honestly you're the first person to disagree with my enjoyment of Luke's character in TLJ in a respectful and understanding manner, and I want to sincerely thank you for being so kind and respectful to the other opinions that people might have about something that you feel strongly about
The SW story group sounds like a colossal waste of money.
The only thing Disney has done different from what Lucas did, in relation to the Expanded Universe/Legends, is that they were upfront about it not being canon. Lucas never, ever held himself beholden to the EU. He always considered them just stories and were never canon. The only things Lucas considered to be canon were the movies, clone wars, and rebels.
KK was even less beholden to canon. Nothing she did directly or indirectly respected canon and the Story Group. It’s hard to hold the Story Group responsible when KK does not bother with them.
Why did they have to demote Leland Chee? That guy is more open-minded and modest than Pablo Hidalgo.
The best way to maintain continuity is to make one multimedia project once in a while and only to promote a movie or a video game.
Thank you. Sure TCW could've been handled a little better in the continuity (that's a rabbit hole right there however) but he did his best to attempt make things work.
@@noahfessenden6478 TCW never should've been made. It convoluted everything. The continuity worked perfectly with the 2002-2006 CW multimedia.
By the strain of logic that means "Rey is the offspring of a failed palpatine clone." Rey is, at best, Ben's aunt, and at worst, his great aunt.
Would they PLEASE FINALLY get rid of Kennedy and her insufferable "StORyGroUp". Disney won´t see another $ as long as this witch and her pets are around !
I wish that were true but sadly there’s too many people who were all into frozen and the Disney Princess movies and the other Disney media then Disney got Star Wars and they had to hop on the bandwagon to fit in with everyone and they’ll just spend money to pretend to be plugged in when they don’t really care what actually goes on
I think consistency is so much important on films that its between comics, for example, since those nom-Lucas stories have always been like on a lesser canon tier than the films, since the EU
It’s ok for characters to evolve and change but at their core, people tend to stay the same. Luke Skywalker never gave up on Darth Vader. One of the most evil and murderous characters in the saga but his son believed in that small part of Anakin alive inside him. Kenobi and Yoda didn’t believe it was possible to redeem him. Luke did and he succeeded. This is why there is no way Luke would never under any circumstance think of killing his nephew. That changes Luke who he was at his core. Then he’s not Luke Skywalker. Even Mark Hamill hated this Luke. He called him Jake Skywalker. I gave this trilogy a chance but honestly I’m just going to go reread the Legends stories.
Don't make yourself suffer as a SW fan (anymore). We got 6 great movies, a ton of amazing games, books, etc. and we should appreciate that. No king rules forever, so in that sense, acknowledge that SW is dead by now but we have got all the great memories that we can always return back to.
Make America Great Again
I was personally more pf the impression that they were basically quality control for the writers: they would have the power to veto things that conflict with cannon (and a significant portion of the day-to-day work would be keeping up with cannon) and have large influence if not veto power over thematic content as well. That’s probably what they should be, anyways.