What was the best (or most tolerable) movie in the Sequel Trilogy? (Let's Talk Some Star Wars)
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
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Could the next poll be the droid army?
You wrote move instead of movie in the title
Steven Thanks for the heads up.
Lord Helmet What about the droid army exactly?
@@thorskywalker Battle against the heroes and villains. I'm curious to see what fans think of the star wars soldiers and groups. Like do people like stormtroopers more? Do people like the idea of grey Jedi?
Sequels: "Look how old you've become!"
Prequels: "Something far worse has happened to you!"
Victor Bruant Roasted.
You stole that from the sheev palpatine UA-cam channel you scumbag stop scraping around for attention and likes
Post-Sequels: I'ma drag both y'all asses back to SW greatness
@@tomferry7851 It's a much older meme, sir, but it checks out, I was about to clear it.
Excellent quote.
“Imagine a trooper becoming a Jedi.”
Kyle Katarn is that guy, and his story was, indeed, amazing. Finn could’ve been the Disney canon version of that and instead, he was turned into a joke.
REY!
How about a slave miner turned soldier turned sith lord! Lol
Wasn't even really a joke. Jokes are supposed to be funny.
I liked him just being a soldier that's just trying to do the right thing
Mara Jade also has some flavor of that. I think making Rey a Mara-like character (one with actual wants and feelings) would've made her a more engaging person.
You’re absolutely correct that the sequel trilogy should’ve been about the new Jedi order in the new republic facing a threat but being able to overcome it, just as the prequel trilogy was about the old Jedi order in the old republic facing a threat and being destroyed by it. It’s like poetry, it rhymes.
Thing is, they could have used the Yuuzhan Vong from the EU. Not only are they a species different galaxy (meaning they would be completely unknown to the New Republic had have to figure out how to beat them), but there also resistance to most force powers. Imagine seeing how the new Jedi would deal with a species that couldn't use force to directly fight them.
Yes! So much could have been used from the EU. Another example are the Interdictor Star Destroyers. Not sure if it would have helped TLJ very much, but I think it would have been better if they COULDN’T jump to hyperspace instead of them choosing not to because of low fuel.
All of us fans that know the true Star Wars, know the sequel trilogy should have been about jacen and Jaina solo or Cade skywalker. You know an actual good story worth being the sequel.
New Jedi order: yes. The young Jedi: yes. The Yuuzhang Vong: heck no. Worst thing in the EU after Dark Empire.
It still would've had to be different because they couldn't have used a 35 year old Luke and have Mark Hamill play him. Same for the other characters.
Except of course if they deage them with CGI, but I don't know how good that would look like.
Here's the way I see the sequel trilogy. JJ Abrams is driving a car and Rian Johnson is the passenger, JJ falls asleep at the wheel and the car starts going off the road (ep 7), Rian grabs the steering wheel but instead of putting the car back on the road he yanks the wheel all the way over (ep 8), JJ wakes up, tries to steer the car back but it's too late and they crash into a tree (ep 9). Now who's to blame, what part was the worst or least bad? For me by default Force Awakens is the least bad because even though it started this disaster the trilogy still could'v been good if last jedi had tried to save the trilogy instead of intentionally making a bad situation worse. Rise of Skywalker is the crash, the inevitable terrible outcome.
Edit: for spelling
Except the spinoffs and shows are the airbags. TROS isn’t quite a big crash though.
That’s stupid. Fuck off, please.
Dragonage2ftw His analogy was perfect, how about you get lost loser. 😂
Alex Chaudhari While it’s somewhat true that it isn’t a huge car crash yet, the smoke from the wreckage is only gonna get larger with time.
Great analogy, this sequel trilogy was dead on arrival for me. It was a meaningless story that only ruins everything that came before it
@@Dragonage2ftw You're stupid. Fuck off, please
Star Wars Episodes 1-6: *exists*
Disney Star Wars: That’s a nice Saga you’ve got here. Would be a shame if someone... made another unnecessary trilogy with nothing to tell and destroy anything the original six movies stood for, am I right?
Zilla Jr. it’s crazy how much shit the prequels got but finally people are looking back at them and realize they didn’t fuck up anyrhing the original trilogy did but added more depth to the world of Star Wars and was consistent wit the plot line. These movies straight up middle finger to the original 6
Killmonger 26 Only now, at the end, do people understand ...
@@skywalker2676 "These movies"
For me it's only The Force Awakens.
The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker tainted by the stupid TFA.
Star masterc I don’t have a problem with force awakens I actually enjoyed that film until the Rey Kylo fight shit was trash, but last Jedi fucked up everything and rise of skywalker had cool parts but overall a cluster fuck thanks to rian johnson
@@skywalker2676 I don't think anyone that thought the prequels were bad are looking back on them fondly. It's mostly people that grew up with them that praise them now.
Honestly to those that say TLJ is a good deconstruction, I'd recommend you play Knights of the Old Republic 2.
It does the Deconstruction of the Star Wars universe better as you can ponder some themes it brings up for a long while. And personally, it digs into the hypocrisy of the Jedi Order better than Rian who seemed surface level at best.
TLJ is a fine example of what I hate about modern Deconstruction: it is more interested in taking apart things, and that is it.
Most people who deconstruct nowadays are like people who took apart a toaster with no care to understand the individual parts that make up the whole. Now instead of a workable toaster, you're left with parts you can't use.
I don't think the Last Jedi is even a Deconstruction. Deconstruction is even more complex, and even if that is possible, every movie would be short for a Deconstruction.
Very good comment.👏👍
luchomscyfy
Agreed...TLJ is not a deconstruction of Star Wars...it is the destruction of Star Wars
Wonderful analysis, deconstruction is now only used to make a once great thing feel meaningless instead of adding anything new or improve it
Agreed. TLJ walks just half the mile, like many deconstructions. KotOR2 walked the full mile. That's why it is one of the greatest additions to Star Wars, even if their much cut content and Kreia can even be annoying sometimes.
TFA: *exists*
The SW franchise: Hey now, that wasn’t so ba.....
TLJ & TRoS: *Allow us to introduce ourselves*
Idk man TFA is my least favorite SW movie ever. I just wanna pull my hair out in every scene
A Disappointed Black Man
Yeah, I mean from an objective point of view tho. Because if I were to rank all the Star Wars movies subjectively, the Sequels would be at the very bottom of the list.
Daniel Månsson bro there was nothing objective about what he said he was just staiting and opinion
The Force Awakens is the worst movie sequel of all time, it's such bad fanfiction plot for A New Hope purists with a lot of extremely ridiculous stuff happening on screen, it's so bad.
Then you watch Blade Runner 2049, *that's how a sequel shoulf be* .
The force awakens was a lazy new hope rip off. All three movies were trash. Coming from a big star wars fan. Disgusted by seeing something i love get fucked up. And there's nothing i can do about it.
Force awakens was only the most tolerable because it literally was a new hope so it was very relatable
Steven, yes but we didn’t need the same movie redone
@@BossKingLegoProductions well it was better than that last jedi crap
See I didn't like TFA because it was such a New Hope rip-off, but yeah it was tolerable.
Tolerable right up to the point where Rey and Finn leave Jakku and meet Harrison Ford being himself dressed in a Han Solo costume. Then the movie is without a doubt a pointless remake. I was just bothered by the whole "find that Droid" "I want that map" but I knew for sure Force Awakens was a sucky remake when Harrison said "Chewy, we're home." Home as in - we made that movie again. CRINGE
I think the reason that no one likes the whole trilogy is because it seems impossible to like both TLJ and TROS as one actively tries to destroy the other.
i liked both tho
@@splashnskillz37 you are the first person I've encountered who likes both, although I knew there would be exceptions. How do you feel about TROS retconning so much of TLJ?
@@eshaanbasu9342 didn't feel like much of a retcon to me, aside the 3PO memory wipe
I just didn't like they killed ben, and then the novelization complicated things way more
They don’t.
To be fair TFA tried doing that somewhat subtly to the OT, then TLJ did it to both of them with the force of a hydrogen bomb and you already know the rest with TROS.
The Ending..
Like the ending credits..
The Force Awakens = flawed, and frustrating, but showed some promise. The Last Jedi = a big stinky pile of Bantha Poodoo, with extra space maggots, that completely ruined the promise of TFA.
The Rise of Skywalker(or truth in advertising, The Rise of Palpatine) = Too little, too late weak sauce effort to please everyone, that ended up pleasing no one. 🤨
TFA already ruined the promise of Episodes I, II, III, IV, V, VI. I had apathy while watching the other movies since TFA showed that Disney/Lucasfilm doesn't care about a logical continuation of the Original Trilogy.
TFA was garbage. Nonsensical characters nonsensical situations, a copy paste hack job with a quicksand like foundation for a badly written and unplanned trilogy
@@VulturePilot It wasn't good, but it could be worked with. TLJ ruined everything.
@Star masterc Fuck apathy. No reason it should exist.
Cringe.
The Force awakens. Only because we got to see Han, Chewie, and the falcon together
That was indeed nice. Only wish that list was a little longer. Like Han, Luke, Leia, Lando, Chewie 3P0 & R2 all together just one last time.
Yeah- but they weren't the characters they were supposed to be anymore. They were the characters they were when you first saw them, they weren't even consistent with Han from the end of A new hope.
@DanRage47 Well Disney is paying for their mistakes now I reckon. what, 80 billion in debt, caught cooking the books at the parks, several flop movies, none in theaters and NO park revenue?
It would be wonderful if they sell the star wars rights back to George Lucas, even if he doesn't make anymore I just want him to say "Fuck all this sequel stuff it's not canon".
The coming recession will probably see some properties sold off or Disney trying to eat another studio just to sell those properties to cover all their loses.
Either way it’s not going to be fun
Nah, Harrison Ford ruined it.
Mace window gets his hand cut off and becomes Jolee Bindo I would have loved to watch that
Nathan K bindo wasn’t missing a hand
Star Wars is like a series of burgers:
OT: Classic american burger, Standard fare but of the highest quality
PT: High quality patty, but with a lot of new exotic topping a lot of people find unappetizing, while others love it.
ST (3 burgers because they're very different):
TFA: Alot like the first burger but just not as good and you don't see any reason to eat it when you can just eat burger 1.
TLJ: Descent quality meat, but topped with moldy cheese, wilted lettuce, stale bun, etc. and you wonder why someone would ruin a fine burger like that.
TROS: The meat is rancid so they thy to hide it by adding so many topping it becomes so overstuffed you can barely eat it. Then you get sick from the bad meat.
Yet another amazing analogy
@@emberfist8347 I'm too scared to ask which animal supplied the meat.
Regarding that Last Jedi comment, you can't deconstruct a series within the series itself. That just delegitimizes everything that series stood for. Deconstruction needs to happen outside of the canon because they often dispel the magic and mythos. And if the Saga no longer cares about the magic and mythos is built up why should I the viewer care about these things anymore either?
I say it can work if it’s treated with respect like KOTOR 2 or DSP9, what Johnson did was use a sledgehammer to shatter the mythos and he didn’t even bother to put it back together.
And you certainly don't blow it up in the middle of the story you're trying to tell. You either start blowing up what people knew and giving them something else or you end doing that and opening up a new world. The middle of the story is not the place to suddenly decided you wanna switch streams.
Hello there...
TLJ doesn’t deconstruct anything that would take competent writing and effort. It’s not dis constructing to be like WHAT IF JEDI BAD and then not follow through or support that with actual events instead of some weird meta commentary
I agree with you. It's like when someone made a delicious chicken Sandwich, but you throw away all the chicken and the cheese, all the good stuff, etc. Well it's not going to be any good now right. Lol
Its not really a trilogy. Its three stand alone movies messely synched together.
Frankstein's monster then? Or would Kennedy's monster be more correct?
@@greenliongirl07 Definitely Kennedy's Monster.
So much this. This is Kennedy’s failure as a producer. You cannot start this trilogy without a framework for the story.
That's like asking me which medieval torture method I most prefer to be done to me
Diana Barnett
So true!
Kinda true
Disney: “Strike the OT down!”
JJ: “I can’t!”
Disney: “You will! You were created to do my bidding!”
JJ: *brings back Palpatine*
Actually, JJ already struck it down with Starkiller base. Palpatine was the final nail on the coffin that had already been repeatedly hammered down to the earths core
I don't blame J.J for that. Rian clearly wrecked his vision for the story. Plus, it might not have even been his idea to bring him back, he didn't 'create' the movie, he wrote and directed it. The producers decide more on that part.
Daniel James Both Abrams and Terrio have said that it was Kennedy’s idea to bring him back. Between Lucas saying he wouldn’t have done that and Ian McDiarmid saying he didn’t get a call until a month or so before they started shooting, it’s clear they didn’t plan on it.
@@ForceMaximus84 I agree. Lucas had already thought out the plans for the 3 movies, but that bitch, Kennedy threw them out the window. But ep7 was at least trying to set something up, ep8 ruined that, and J.J tried to repair the damage, not well, but tried.
'The Last Jedi' was an ambitious experiment that ultimately failed that I RESPECT but I still did not LIKE.
'The Rise of Skywalker' was the one I LIKED the most but RESPECTED the least.
TLJ and RoS tried to put twists in a already failed triligy. None of the twist made sense or added anything interesting to the story causing the triligy to just fail more.
Star Wars fans: AHH YOU CANT JUST RAM INTO SOMETHING USING LIGHTSPEED! THATS NOT HOW THIS WORKS AT ALL
Admiral Holdo: hehe big engine go vrooom
Why not?
@@eshaanbasu9342 Because every battle becomes a joke
@@stfuplease1051 but the question of why people don't ram into ships with lightspeed was always under answered, TLJ just made more people ask it.
Eshaan Basu lightspeed doesn’t make you go fast, it sends you to another dimension
Supreme leader 049 colliding with the mass shadow of a large ship will have bad results. TLJ seems to have exaggerated those results.
One of the things I hate most about the Last Jedi isn't just it's complete disregard for Star Wars history, character, canon, and themes, it's that it made the Force Awakens retroactively weaker. It made every single mystery the Force Awakens was clearly building up pointless. The Last Jedi did so much else wrong in addition to this, but that critical deficiency alone should be enough to deem the Last Jedi a failure.
The plot shouldn't have been written with mysteries as the structure anyway. Star Wars was never a mystery series. I mean what if Lucas wrote Star Wars with Luke's dad's identity being a mystery? It would have killed the reveal. Lucas did it right. (Even though he was improvising as he went.) You tell the audience that Luke's dad was a jedi knight, a good man, a good pilot, killed by Darth Vader. Boom. Then blindside the audience later with the reveal.
Obi-Wan Kenobi I personally liked tlj but I can see your pretty, before tlj tfa was liked
What? It was just following in 7s foot steps. 7 set the characters up. Like god damn get off the Johnson hate wagon
I remember people screaming 7 killed that characters.
Hero of Kush do you like tlj?
1st trilogy: 2nd movie is the best.
2nd trilogy: 3rd movie is the best.
3rd trilogy: 1st movie is the best.
Ironic...
I noticed this a few months ago. And usually the third installment in trilogies are the worst or least best. The prequels and LOTR subverted that tradition.
Indeed
Very accurate.
1st trilogy: 3rd movie is the worst
2nd trilogy: 1st movie is the worst
3rd movie: 2nd movie is the worst
The most ‘tolerable’ movie of the Disney trilogy? The Force Awakens. We still had hope for good Star Wars back then. Back then, the biggest issue was the monumentally bad decision to not reunite Luke-Han-Leia. That has been far eclipsed since then.
👏👏Sequel Trilogy👏👏 I don’t speak caveman.
The biggest issue for me was the lazy story and plots based around completely stupid over the top macguffins that retroactively destroyed the accomplishments in past films, characters and the entire universe setting the franchise back years. So that film set the tone of how the ST would continue this path and keep screwing the franchise up. So I find that to be the most unforgivable but it's definitely the most well made film and enjoyable so I still begrudgingly voted for it despite it being the reason everything went south
TFA was unbearable to me, and it is because people celebrating it that Disney saw no reason to try to improve from their copy pasted hack job
@@protector_of_the_realms there isn't a Macguffin in the sequel, or even the original trilogy (because sometimes people say there is, but they're straight up wrong). A Macguffin is something that is desirable for the sake of being desirable - what it is doesn't actually matter as long as it is wanted by the characters involved in the plot. In the sequel, everyone wants the map to Luke, because everyone believes he is a threat to the First Order. This cannot be replaced in the plot, because Luke is a powerful Jedi everyone knows is a very real threat to the First Order; if you replace the map with, say lots of money, then people such as Kylo, Rey, the resistance and Snoke are going to have very different levels of interest (from none at all, to a little but they're more concerned either actual threats to their grip on the galaxy).
Anyway, that aside, you're completely correct. I didn't find it unforgivable, because at the time (when I thought that the trilogy had an actual plan behind it and wouldn't change directors twice with no regard for the visions of either) I had thought that they were intentionally mimicking a new hope but also introducing smaller changes that would snowball into greater effects on the rest of the trilogy (Fin being a storm trooper, Kylo struggling with the light side even after killing his father, Leia and Snoke learning from the mistakes of the past, literally Luke fucking Skywalker existing through the original trilogy). Needless to say, I was let down on all accounts, but I had hope, and for all we know if Abrams had been running the whole thing start to finish we may have gotten something better than "How are you alive?" "That's a good question, stop asking questions."
@@seandabest4329 Well I see where you're coming from and I agree with what you've said and explained but not with the premise of there not being a Macguffin in the ST as I believe a Macguffin is an object (mostly unfeasible or nonsensically overpowered) that isn't explained at all or is poorly explained that's really just there to move the plot along. The definition for one in the dictionary is "an object or device in a film or a book which serves merely as a trigger for the plot" so I think there are several in the ST mostly due to lazy writing. The Way finder and sith Dagger in RoS are the most blatantly obvious but in TFA I was referring to Starkiller base more than the map as a big lazy unrealistic (even for star wars) red reset button that just really pissed me off and retroactively rendered the past films meaningless lol. It also screwed the eu canon centered around that period and completely limited what could be done both in the future films and in content set around that time outside the films. I'd even say Rey's much more reminiscent of a macguffin than a mary sue and I think that describes and explains the issues with her more justly and appropriately. I just wish the films were character-driven like the Prequels and last 2 OT films (still just want to say btw that ANH is in my top 3 star wars films and I'm not saying it has a macguffin which it might because of the death star though I would argue against it as it's not a subplot and it has a sensical explanation and reasoning to exist, just that its plot is more based upon a classic epic adventure)
Sequels: I'm going to end both trilogies once and for all!
Fans: You can't! The Originals and Prequels are the best trilogies!
Lucas has control of the saga and the fans! He's too dangerous to be kept alive!!
Oh expansions will save it.
@@afuriousblackman It's not the Star Wars way! They must live!
Alex Chaudhari oh my god you had to ruin it... Now I know why everyone hates you bro
@@afuriousblackman Role play was never my area of interest. I don't think everyone hates me, they just don't like when I disagree with their conclusions or call out the white flag attitude. Oh and you guys forgot the "I'm too weak, please" line.
It's just such a shame...... 43 years....
Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, Harrison Ford, Billy Dee Williams, Ian Mcdermid, Anthony Daniels, Peter Mayhew... Heck, even Hayden Christiansen! They had all of them and blew it!
@@josephdemille3354 I'd add Ewan Mcgregor in there too
The biggest cinematic waist ever, it’s heartbreaking
42 still
@@jonathanm4738 we in the 43rd, son
Thor.... you just my my life. Hearing you say you are creating a motion comic based on George’s sequel ideas... you are the best. Cannot wait. You always put out quality content with great care
Yes, the Last jedi did something new (ish) and different (kinda). But Deconstruction without reconstruction following it is only destruction.
Witchdoctor Williams I figured that the plan was for episode 9 to be the reconstruction, which is why I never faulted TLJ for being what it was until 9 came out lol
Personally, the pace of the Rise of Skywalker was melting my brain. I can take slow, thought-provoking movies or clever speed, but that movie was in such a hurry. I could barely get into one scene before I was in the next one.
It was exhausting. Like I felt there were plot holes and contrivances but before you had a minute to think about it you're on to the next thing
For me the look on Finn face when he activated Luke’s lightsaber.
it was good look
Can we all agree that the Choreography in the Sequels were just plain bad? The actor who played Rey just swung her lightsaber like if it were a baseball bat... It was very awful , one of the reasons why I hated the sequels
Seriously, I don't understand why there are so many people who enjoy the lightsaber scenes in the sequels because my 3 year old nephew could handle a lightsaber better.
@BcB Theta Didn’t the OT do the same thing?
Alex Chaudhari comparing the OT duels with anything other than contemporary films is unfair. That being said the Conan movies, the Ray Harryhausen epics and the odd King Arthur and Robin Hood movies (and of course The Princess Bride) can give a baseline on the expected skill that choreographers and actors showed in the two decades surrounding the OT. The PT needed to compete with such action flicks as Jurassic Park (cgi dinos aged much better than cgi clones) Independence Day and the matrix, not to mention the LOTR films. TPM duel of the fates is still a great fight sequence despite the weird ‘maul in headlights’ ending.
@@achaudhari101 Depends what fight. Also that was a very different time period
Absolutely, have you seen Shadiversity’s break down of it? It is truly awful
What you said about Mace Windu around 9 minutes in, -that would have been an incredible idea. It would have fit his character much more than Luke's, because he was already rather pessimistic. Also, he in that kind of role would have been more angry and bitter rather than depressed like Luke was, and therefore we could get some better drama. This just would have worked so well.
@@emberfist8347 Agreed. But sense people have talked about reviving him, this would be the only way to do it justice. And this would be a story I could get behind.
Although badly written, The Force Awakens at least played to the nostalgic side of me. I think back at how excited I was for a new Trilogy. Now I look at the state of the franchise and feel like it was by far, the biggest missed opportunity of cinematic history. Seeing how we never got to see Luke, Han and Leia once again together on the big screen, and the fact that we lost Carrie Fisher and Peter Mayhew really is sad.
The sequel trilogy for me is just a massive missed opportunity, it could have been so MUCH more...
TFA was the most tolerable because honestly it did have some great character introductions but quickly dropped the proverbial ball and did not, as you said yourself, explain the HOW's and WHY's which really made me feel disappointed. After the TFA I was hoping that TLJ would pick things up and frankly there were some things I enjoyed but once I started thinking about them I just felt sad, still love Yoda thumping Luke on the head ;-) but that is about it. Never cared enough to watch ROS which makes me even sadder...
Still Rogue 1 and The Mandalorian has given me some hope for a future but I don't think it will ever be what it COULD have been.
widgren87 It would be nice to see the crew of rogue one again having an adventure set in the time between A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, oh, wait we can’t because some moron killed off all of the characters.
@@peterkrochmalni673: "Atomized dust gradually settling on Scarif - the movie"
0:57 I just now realized in this composite picture that Giant Rey (from TLJ) is stabbing Tiny Kylo (from ROS) with her lightsaber as Finn looks on.
😂😂😂
I wouldn’t say the force awakens is the best or most tolerable it’s just the least shit
@@emberfist8347 How bout I just pick none of them
The only good in the sequels are the visuals, special effects and music (most of the time).
Characters - Meh
Story - Meh
Logic - *ERROR 404*
Finn and Poe were actually pretty good in the force awakens, but then disney said "you're already ruined" before episode 8 even came out.
Eh the music felt like background noise to me, but yeah when you do listen to the music by itself it is good.
And that's a problem, the music is supposed to help immerse you into the films. When you listen to the music from 1-6 you can see the scenes they were played against. 7-9 you can't, except for Rey's theme.
@@Deuteromis Indeed.
More like logic: what is logic; does not computer (unhappy glitched computer noises)
@@emberfist8347 Nah, I think he did enjoy making the music, and he does enjoy his craft. I should have said in my first comment, but that was a paraphrase of an interview Williams did after EP.7 He said it was different working on The Sequel music because of tight schedule he had to work on because of Disney. That's kinda the problem with Hollywood overall now; they want to churn out films so fast nowadays.
Not like it used to be.
I'd say The Force Awakens was the best of the Sequel Trilogy.
...agreed.
The best at starting a mess, yup.
Cameron Baker for sure, a great way to restart the hype with star wars and bring it into a new generation. It gave me a lot of hope.
sugaquaks yeah it gave potential
it wasnt one of the best movies but it was ok
the next movies had to use it and make it better like 3 did it with 1 and 2
but 8 failed this trilogy and doomed it
9 failed in a world which is already dead
...by default
TFA until they separated Finn & Poe it was perfectly fine the movie whilst it had problems was ok as a starting movie sadly ep8 wasn't a middle movie and 9 seemed more a reaction to the mess ep 8 caused.
The biggest issue for me came in TFA actually, with the lazy story and plots based around completely stupid over the top macguffins that retroactively destroyed the accomplishments in past films, characters and the entire universe setting the franchise back years. So that film set the tone of how the ST would continue this path and keep screwing the franchise up. So I find that to be the most unforgivable but it's definitely the most well made film and enjoyable so I still begrudgingly voted for it despite it being the reason everything went south
@@protector_of_the_realms oh yes the worst part for me is that it could have been much better then they utterly messed up what they had.
I know , I know! People treat like 9 is shit , but TLJ is a mess on so many layers , directing ,
plotline ,characters , plot holes , choreography...
TFA set up the characters well, but not the overall conflict. TLJ ignored what little setup there was. ROS was a consequence of the former two, doomed to be a mess because it had no foundations to build on.
@@Codraroll TFA had some not much but a truly competent writer could have vied with ESB instead nobody kept watch as Rian cooked his goose.
His script could have worked in the hands of someone who knew star wars and gave a damn I'm still wondering how they could mess up so badly!
So my choices are 1. A copy a paste movie. 2. A movie that subverted my expectations. 3. A retcon mess. I'll go with 1 which is like saying i prefer getting shot over stabbed or lit on fire.
But at least Han shoots first.
@@SymbioteMullet ha ha.
Nobody cares.
Who did the Kylo drawing at 4:28, it's amazing.
I voted in that pole, and while I didn't comment my thoughts about it at the time, I guess I can still do so here.
I personally think that the Rise of Skywalker was my favorite of the trilogy, but that of course really isn't saying all that much.
The Force Awakens felt more like a complete retelling of A New Hope than anything, but it did raise some intriguing questions that I did leave the theater thinking about, particularly involving Snoke. It wasn't the best of Star Wars by a mile and a half, but it still had its potential and left its mark on me as I left that theater.
The Last Jedi... can die in a dumpster fire for all I care. I never thought a Star Wars movie could do so many things wrong that it actively hurts not just itself, but the entire trilogy. I'll delve a little more into that when I get there.
The reason I personally can tolerate the Rise of Skywalker more than the other two is because I enjoyed how they implemented some of the Legends stuff back into the official canon. Palpatine's clone bodies and essence transfer, Leia actually training to become a jedi, so on and so forth. At the same time, this is kind of a double-edged sword for the movie. While it's nice to see the Legends stuff make a return, I can't help but realize that it was put in out of desperation, because JJ had nothing else to work with, rather than because it was part of the grand plan.
The whole thing just boils down to a problem that you, and many other people, have brought up that I completely agree with. Disney just had no real plan for this trilogy. They let JJ make the first movie with his vision, and then rather than build on said vision, however good it may have or may not have been, they let another man take over the next movie, and he made a movie that destroyed JJ's vision to such an astonishing degree, it feels like a calculated move by Ryan to completely sabotage everything that The Force Awakens had set up. And then, after having just about his entire vision razed in a burning inferno, they give the next movie back to JJ, and force him to put together whatever scraps were left of what he had and whatever else was available to try to salvage the trilogy.
Neither of the previous trilogies were perfect. Both of them had their flaws and weak moments, but they all followed an overall grand plan: following the story of the Skywalkers, be it Luke's rise in the original, or Anakin's fall in the prequels. And of course, while George Lucas' vision may not have been flawless the whole way through, they all still followed his vision. Would the new trilogy have been better if they just let JJ handle everything? Honestly, it's really hard to say at this point. But at least it would have been one, singular vision, not two visions completely acting against each other.
Honestly they're all intolerable. They start horrible, and only (unbelievably) get worse. The only Di$ney era Star Wars I acknowledge is Rogue One.
Cringey. Fuck off.
@@Dragonage2ftw Have anything to contribute? No?
Then fuck off. Its ironic how you call this cringey... yet your comment is pure cringe.
@@Dragonage2ftw Possibly the cringiest thing you can do is call something cringy and tell someone to f*** off without making any attempt to contribute anything to the conversation, solely because you disagree with what is being said.
What you are doing is just ad hominem. It doesnt prove anything except that you are an asshole who cant come up with a coherent argument.
I agree. Although even Rogue One is flawed.
@@playerone6995 True, but honestly all the Star Wars movies are flawed. But Rogue One is a good addition to the original triology.
I feel bad for John Williams. Had to carry the entire trilogy on his back in his 80s because the directors and producers couldn’t hold it themselves.
Roy Z what are you talking about? the OT was the only trilogy with three amazing movies
Just realized that on every one of those posters, someone is holding Anakin's lightsaber at downward angle. I'm going to assume that was a hint to keep expectations low.
As to the actual question, The Force Awakens, I suppose, since it disappoints me the least. Visually, The Last Jedi. Hilarious alien character in a bit part that I wish the whole trilogy had been about named Babu Frik? Definitely Rise of Skywalker.
@@emberfist8347 Heh. Well, my mistake, then.
@@Off-Brand_Devin only good visuals in TLJ is *that* ram by *that* Vice admiral.
I can agree on TLJ *looking* fantastic, I can give the movie that much. Before TROS came out, I forced myself to revisit the other two movies (watching both for the first time in two years) and TLJ is hands down the most visually appealing of the three. I don't know if Rian actually has a good eye for nice visuals or if his cinematographer is simply good at his job, but whatever it is, I enjoyed looking at most of it.
Enduring the story and what it did to the characters is an entirely different matter, though.
@@derworfnet Yeah, that's pretty much exactly how I feel about it.
Finn should have been the main character he was the most likable character and had a ton of potential
War Damn Eagle!
@@GeeksandGrub war eagle!
I wish RoS had a end credits scene as follows:
We see a man, standing by a balcony looking out towards the night sky. The room is unlit and the camera is behind him so we don't see his face. Then behind him, a woman (also face unseen) walks up to him, asking him what's wrong? He replies that he's feeling disturbed, saying he had visions (events of TFA, TLJ, RoS) and is worried. The woman puts her arms around him, telling him it was probably just a bad dream, and saying "Luke, come to bed". Then some moon light shines out from behind clouds, we see that her hair is red. The man turns to her (their faces are still kept hidden from the audience) and he replies "Yes, Mara."
Darth Maul “I was destined to be so much” this can said of Sequels trilogy
One thing I would like to make would be a novel/comic series that takes place in the old Expanded Universe, that acknowledges a multiverse.
In essence, characters from Legends end up saving the canon from a villainous warlord, seeking to invade the “prime” (Disney) timeline.
For added fun, the villains would be a surviving splinter group of fanatics, from the old Rakatan Infinite Empire.
The best part of Disney stars sequels? They ended, yes the end, as in there is no more, none. Yep best part.
I think your brain cells ended to where it needs to be fixed man, that’s not good.
Alex Chaudhari I would love to reply but what are you trying to say? “Brain cells ended to where it needs to be fixed”? That makes no sense. Please clarify as I love talking Star Wars.
@@hitandruncommentor It means you need to fix that mentality that the best part was the ending. Now that that's out of the way I'd say expansions can fix that era to give a better understanding on why things played out in the Sequels. Remember this is a new time period so of course it needs to be fleshed out more.
Alex Chaudhari okay I see. I understand your view point. But bad writing is bad writing and the sequel trilogy was a major victim to poor writing. I’m not going to compare it to the OT as writing something new is completely different than writing something part of a pre-existing lore. There should not need to be expanded lore for the movies to make sense. The logistic were terrible and nonsensical. Add to this that none of the characters got proper backgrounds, motivation, or development. This is the hallmark of bad writing. If you enjoyed the sequels I’m happy for you, truly I am.
However, the consistent amateur level writing is something that I am not able to get past. Yes it is only the writing, the actors did a good job with what they had. The visuals were beyond reproach, the directing was even spot on. However, the sequels to me show case why trilogies typical have writers per film and then a writer for the overall trilogy not have directors write and direct as Writing and directing are both extremely specialized skills.
@@hitandruncommentor But even then the Prequels were treated kinda like that before and it took the last film and Clone Wars for it to get the respect it deserved. I understand why you're saying that it feels hopeless because we are still dealing with the fallout, but in time there can be something like Clone Wars for the Sequel era (Resistance doesn't count) that can be a turning point as long as it's done right. They can do like a Luke show set between ROTJ and TFA as a form of compensation for his depiction in TLJ? Does that solve everything? No (It will take a lot more) but it's a start to try and course correct some of the mistakes that happened. I'm an optimistic person in that regard.
Thank you Thor for including me in your video!
You're very welcome. Thanks for taking the time to leave the comment.
"From Jake Boos, and the other one by A Disappointed Black Man"
*me, spilling my tea:* "what?!?!?!.... oh..."
For me, Episode 7 was the most tolerable movie for me. I was born in 2005 so at that point I had been in that awkward point after the prequels without anything big except for the Clone Wars. I was only 10 years old when episode 7 came out and I wasn’t that big of a Star Wars fan. For me it was really exciting seeing the force awakens even though it was too much like a new hope. The new special effects and fun story was enough to make me love it.
By the time of episode 8 I had changed. I was 12 and had joined the hype train for episode 8 and started learning about, and appreciating the Star Wars universe. As I started hearing theories about episode 8 I couldn’t help but feel excited. I was excited to explore snoke, watch Kylo develop, see Rey build her strength on under the guidance of Luke, see who Rey’s parents were, and watch how the New Republic would fight the first order. I now wasn’t just a casual fan but a devoted one who had high expectations for this new movie that I thought would blow me away. Instead we had Snoke die in the dumbest way possible, Luke denouncing the Jedi as he drank green milk and talked about how he was on the verge of killing Kylo all because he had a vague vision of him being evil, Rey being a nobody and using the force to lift hundreds of boulders even though tons of Jedi with years of training still couldn’t do that, The New Republic didn’t even put up a fight, I could keep listing my problems with the movie but that would take too long.
TFA, although it was basically a new hope rehash, it still brought some ok things to the table and was still a decent movie at the very least. But with the fact that the Jedi are gone, there’s a new Death Star, and a new rebellion, it just goes to show how truly lazy this film actually is.
4:33 ahh yes, “Let kill the it if past you die have to” my favorite Star Wars quote. By Yoda... I think...
The Force Awakens had the most effort and care put into it, even if it was a remake of a New Hope.
4:08 Thanks for putting my art in
I would love to see that anthology film with Mace Windu, especially if that “young student” was Ezra. It fits well with the timeline, and their worldviews are so disjoint that Ezra could launch Windu on an incredible redemption arc.
Also, it would make the ending for Rebels so much better.
The Force Awakens: While very flawed, I personally love this movie. It sets so much up and it was very cool to see all the OG characters return.
The Last Jedi: While I respect what Rian tried to do with this movie, it was a disgrace to the fan base. It took everything TFA set up and walked right over it.
The Rise of Skywalker: I definitely think JJ tried to reunite the fan base with this but it just didn't work. It's like trying to put toothpaste back in a tube, impossible and makes things even messier. I was satisfied with the movie, but it could've been so much more and was very underwhelming.
The high point of the ST came just before the TFA crawl started.
But wasn't there a Disney logo right before the Lucasfilm logo?
Sorry for the short essay. Tl;dr: If you want an example of what a good deconstruction in Star Wars looks like, look at Kreia’s philosophy on the Force from KOTOR 2 (details are in the essay). It works so well because it was able to be properly fleshed out due to it happening in a video game, Kreia made a compelling argument for her ideas, and because it was focused on a specific aspect of the universe, not just the universe as a whole, allowing it to be properly seen as a deconstruction.
For a good example of deconstruction done right in Star Wars, look at KOTOR 2, specifically Kreia’s philosophy. To summarize her whole deal (I’m sorry if I make it sound lame/surface level, trying to be brief), she believed that the Force itself was a problem, as it’s constant desire for whatever it considers balance has led to constant conflict and death over countless centuries. Furthermore, she believes that use of it makes individuals weaker overall. Both of these reasons lead her to believe that permanently cutting the galaxy off from the Force is the best possible thing for the galaxy. Even if you do not agree with her conclusion, the reasoning is still sound, and you’ve got to admit that she makes a compelling argument. Most people playing the game are likely familiar enough with Star Wars lore to know that the first 6 movies were all about bringing the Force into balance, with countless lives being lost over the course of the series all having been for that purpose. Furthermore, Meetra Surik, the very person you’re playing as, was completely cut off from the Force herself, proving that it is possible to not only survive, but even thrive without the Force’s intervention.
But, this deconstruction was done in a videogame, which has a lot more creative freedom than a mainline movie would be allowed. Additionally, the deconstruction was focused on a specific aspect of the Star Wars universe instead of just on Star Wars in general, allowing it to be seen as an actual deconstruction, rather than just lazy/bad/inconsistent writing.
After seeing the result, I am worried for the movie industry. If any of the sequel movie can be graded a good movie, let alone a good SW movie, then a lot of crap wil be praised as an achievement in cinematography.
Sounds like you would have fit perfectly with the crowd that scoffed at the idea the Prequels would be praised down the road.
Imagine ep. 7 starting with old Luke sitting on the bench near the temple, watching young Jedi training with Ben Solo. And at some point they introduce a new force sensitive being from unknown regions that has a huge army of some new spiecies. It would have been far more interesting
More reasons why sequels are nothing more than poorly fan fiction
Not fanfiction. Fanfiction implies the ones making it are well, fans, as opposed to soulless parasites puppeteering the franchise simply to extract as much money out of it as possible.
@@MetalKing1417 then what this calls?
Thank you. I’ve said this for years now that I feel like the most interesting parts of the sequel trilogy occurred offscreen.
The Force Awakens. It’s not even a difficult choice.
Star Wars is becoming a series where fans need to watch the tv/ animated shows in between the movies for the entire thing to make sense.
FUN FACT: Star Wars "fans" were not appreciative with the prequel trilogy when it released, but nostalgia goggles say otherwise
There are many that likes them because of the memes. The MEMES. Sad that only meme material on ST is "They fly now"
Also , many people still hate them , some , only came to terms with RoTS . Some of us like them from the start (like me , because i was 7 while watching it). Some came to realise they were actually a good start for the OT (fact) but the dialogue was(is) just shit. Anyway to the point , people had and have different opinions. But the flaws of ST and PT are different. PT has a clear goal , set up the OT. Did it do it? Yes. Were there some bullshit? Absolutely.
On the other hand , maybe because of conflict between Rian and JJ , ST's are just star wars cool visuals and trademarks display case. There is no promise. What will people say , "it has good dialogue"?
I was excited for _Star Wars: The Force Awakens_ and the new trilogy to the Nth degree. I followed the production from the announcement to the release, I just couldn't wait.
I went to the cinema with my Dad and my Sister, and frankly... none of us were entertained. Ten years earlier my Dad took me to see _Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith,_ my first feeling leaving the cinema was that I wanted to walk back in and watch it again, I loved it and so did he, it's still one of the best cinemagoing experiences of my life. Leaving _Star Wars: The Force Awakens,_ my mind was blank, I didn't know whether I was annoyed, angry, or just needed to let it sink in, all I knew was that I didn't enjoy myself like I thought I would.
The annoyances were numerous. The recycled elements from _Star Wars_ (1977) I noticed from the beginning, they stuck out like blood in the snow. The wasting of a stellar Actors like Max Von Sydow, and Andy Serkis. My eyes rolled when Maz said "A good question... for another time". Even before I knew about the term "Mary Sue", I knew Rey was OP, I watched this amateur, this nobody best the pupil of Luke Skywalker, grandson of Anakin and I thought "What?!". The action spectacle provided no satisfaction because I couldn't even force myself to care about what was happening.
Overall, none of the trilogy is good, or even tolerable. They are all bad, each for different reasons.
I'm still watching 1-6 Star Wars movies, and Rouge one, CW, and Mandalorian.
Hot take: Rose Tico is the only character in the TLJ (quite possibly the whole sequel trilogy) who had enough backstory, development, and motivation. Everything you need to know about her is displayed throughout TLJ. I would argue she in that one movie had more development or detail than that of the principle three heroes in this whole trilogy. And while my argument isn't how impactful she is to either the story or the mission, it certainly is that she seems to be the most cared about in the writer's room. And then TROS comes out and both she and Maz Kanata (my favorite character in this series) are reduced to "blink and you'll miss them" roles. What a waste of the characters the films and filmmakers once actually decided to invest time in.
I would say the beginning of TFA minus the opening credit crawl. The few minutes you are with Rey while she's all alone showed her as being somewhat vulnerable and feminine, and it's the only time in the entire series you cared for the character. Boy was that ever dashed to smithereens shortly after.
Yeah her introduction was the best part of the Sequel trilogy , but very quickly they fucked its own promise with her power ascension that instantly changed the who is she into what is she .
The best thing about the sequels is how they've made everyone reconsider how we feel about the prequels. Sure, the prequels weren't the best-written movies and they haven't held up visually like other movies which used practical effects, but the story was there. It was still George's creation and you could tell how much thought he put into that aspect of it. I really wanted to like the sequels, and they were absolutely beautiful from a visual standpoint, but I'm just left wondering what George would have done if he hadn't sold Lucasfilm. But we can only dream of those movies.
That being said, I would say TLJ is my favorite film of the three, but TFA is my favorite Star Wars film. I am a big fan of Rian Johnson as a director, specifically his work on Breaking Bad, but I would feel much better about the TLJ if it existed in some alternate timeline and didn't count as canon. It was a good movie apart from Canto Bight, what they did with Rose, Leia flying through space, and a few other minor things. However, the fact that Johnson was allowed to throw away so many plot points from TFA was an awful decision on Disney's part, and the whole trilogy became incredibly disjointed as a result. TFA was a good, fun movie and left us with a lot of questions. Yes, it drew pretty heavily on the originals at times, but it was never terribly frustrating for me because of that. Perhaps the reason I liked it as much as I did was that feeling of walking out of a Star Wars movie for the first time in theaters, countless questions swirling around in my brain, just super excited for what was to come next....
Thanks, Disney, for planning no story whatsoever in your attempt to make billions. Worked out well for you, but not so much for the fans.
TFA was decent and promising. The Last part, with the duel between Rey and Kylo, wounded or not, was stupid.
Anyway, the sequels are the past. Let them die, kill them if you must to.
luchomscyfy TFA was garbage and killed Han in one of the worst ways. At least when TROS killed Leia it didn’t destroy her...and no it didn’t destroy Palpatine...it made him badass all things considered (aside from Rey USING ONE HAND...the whole ending was fucking stupid.)
They should make a clone wars-like series about the new republic getting into a war with the First Order. In this they could explain why the New Republic suddenly fell by making the show enjoyable but ultimately have the New Republic lose. They could also have Luke be a main character and have him make a fatal mistake that allows the First Order to win the war. I say this because Luke going into hiding because he failed to keep his nephew in the light doesn’t really make sense. They could even simply make it set right after episode 6, where the New Republic is trying to take out what is left of the Empire, with the characters similarly looking to the ones in the OT
I think it's the " The last Palpatine awakens".
I think one of the ideas that might have helped is starting the beginning of Episode 7 with a Jedi Knighting ceremony.
That's something we've never really seen, and it's a springboard literally in any direction from there
VII: Fine, but a bit TO familiar (as long as you watch it as a mindless popcorn flick) infuriating if you start to think about it
IIX: 2/3 is either stupid or boring and the remaining 1/3 shits on a character whom basically everyone loves
IX: tries to be 2,5 films at the same time and ends up feeling like a combination of a bunch of fetch quests trown together and a few kids playing in their back yard
All of them feel disjointed and break canon in one way or another and never justify their existence, making the whole trilogy feeling like an infuriating chash grab
I genuine had enjoyment from 7 nuff said. Can’t say the same about the other two.
The opening crawl of TFA was the highlight for me. It was practically all downhill from there for me.
What the Dissapointed guy said kind of did resonate with me, granted I was a bit invested since the Prequel Era, so while I din't hate Force Awakens, it did feel different to me, so I think the most I liked about it was that it had potential: Finn was left crippled, meaning he probably would have taken a while to wake up and rejoin the fight, but would have been shaped by the events of facing Kylo, probably turning him into a battle-hardened soldier, Rey and Luke meeting could have meant that a new Jedi order could return and this bizarre creature known as Rey would have been revealed to be either an anomaly in the Force or could have been a lost Skywalker, if not a bizarre Palpatine Clone that was hidden away prior to the Fall of the Empire, and Kylo could have gottem more deep into his Dark Side studies, and come back from the Rey fight a different man, though conflict would still remain at times, similar with what happened with Vader in the OT. Instead, TLJ ends up crapping the bed and makes fun of serious moments by turning it into Spaceballs without the charm, and what should have been really cool moments get undermined due to bad fight choreography or not giving them enough screentime to develop (like I was probably the only one looking forward to the Phasma fight with Finn...it only lasted 5 seconds...and the way it ends felt unsatisfying; I still wonder why they never used the deleted scene of it instead, even if certain parts need work; it had a more satisfying conclusion imo and the way Finn conducts himself in that duel and the extra troopers starting to grow doubt on Phasma's leadership...like it showcases Phasma's perfectionist nature making her a really dangerous ally to have because it means she is willing to kill anyone who is a liability to her own survival - be they friend or foe). To this day, I've yet to see Rise, but like...I don't even know what to expect.
TLJ broke universe with hyperspaceramming and ROS shitted all over Skywalker saga. So much wasted potential.
2:01 - That is pretty much exactly how I feel. TFA was the most enjoyable and the least obviously bad just as a stand-alone movie. However, it also was responsible for the massive regression right back to Empire vs underdog Rebellion. The First Order should have been the underdogs from the beginning, using Kylo Ren and Snokes force powers to enable devastating attacks on Republic supply centers but avoiding direct conflict until the Republic was adequately weakened. That should have been the three-film plan. 1 - Weak First Order, sneak attacks. 2 - Republic on verge of collapse - need to find Luke to bring them back together. 3 - The First Order now has the big plan to defeat the Republic, big finale space battle.
I like Solo, I hope there will be a part 2 🙂
This is Darth Bullsith of the Galactic Notification Empire! All wings, report in!
Bullsith, standing by!
Red Five standing by!
I actually love tfa. Felt so awesome to see in theatres. That’s just me tho
I think TFA was a great setup movie, it had everything going for it. I was very excited to see what followed, I think if we could get some good directors who care about the franchise to complete the setup story, we could have got some great SW story telling. It is just such a missed opportunity
Love the videos... Finn had so much potential...SMH
You should get Mark Hamill to voice Luke for your sequel project.
Even though TFA was a rehash of a new hope i still enjoyed it when it came out.. however the films that followed have tainted my view of that film..
You can still like it in isolation.
Take your time planning out your sequel trilogy Thor. If the Disney trilogy taught us anything, it’s that you need to go in with a plan of where you’re headed...
Agreed. What an ironic twist to that TLJ adage "The greatest teacher, failure is."
Hello there
General Kenobi, you are a bold one!
Personally I believe rouge one was the best Disney starwars movie. It was fun to watch and the ending was the most entertaining and actually surprising out of all the Disney movies.
Rogue one (yea I know its not part of sequel trilogy but Fxck it, it was sandwiched in there so...)
Why? It didnt try to alter the essence of the characters from the originals
The force awakens. It sagged terribly in the middle, but it was overall good.
Me and my wife bonded over our combined love of star wars, and there was nothing like the two of us holding hands in the theater trying not to squee in the moments after the blue "A long time ago" text vanished but before the music started.
Fav was ROS, with TFA close behind.
ewww fuuuck.
One of my biggest plights with the sequel trilogy is how it provides little to no explanation of how things came to be or why certain things are missing. To name a few:
-How did the First Order ammass such a large fleet that rivals that of the Empire (as in, every ship they own is somehow larger than what the Empire had, hell the Supremacy was half the size of the 1st Death Star.)
-Who is Snoke and how did he come to power?
-How did a newly formed republic, that beforehand lived under a tyrannical dictatorship for 20 years, suddenly decide NOT to have their own fleet for defence purposes, and why do they let the First Order run rampant across the galaxy?
-Where are the force ghosts of Obi Wan & Anakin?
Those are just a few examples from a much larger list that I have ammassed. Now, there is one example from this I want to get further into detail, and that being of the Force Ghosts. Not once, ever, in this trilogy is it ever explained what happened to them or why they aren't appearing. You'de think the force ghost of Anakin would appear to his only grandchild, Ben, to encourage him away from the dark side. Or the force ghost of Obi-Wan appearing to Luke years before TLJ to return his motivation. Or Yoda's ghost aiding in Rey's training. But no, its never explained why they never appear. This confusion is only furthered in TLJ (a common pattern) when Yoda's ghost does in fact appear to Luke, meaning that the force ghosts can and could appear to Luke or any one of the characters at any time, anywhere. But they didn't, and its never explained why they didn't. This inadvertelty creates a huge death star II sized plothole that Im amazed has been looked over, as pretty much the entire trilogy as we know it couldve been avoided had the force ghosts been there (Anakin saving Ben = No Kylo Ren & Yoda encouraging Luke = Luke doesn't hermit away).
Ep 7 is the one i hate the most since to me it was clear how they already messed it all up..
Luke gone means there must be an unsatisfying explanation for that, the whole set up is already shitty. It was clear they didn't think anything through. JJ really messed up 2 reboots of my fave scifi universes that start with star
A good way to describe the transition and lack of an explanation of galactic events and changes that occurred between Episode 6 and episode 7:
"Maclunky".