Continuity isn’t just meant for cute little callbacks like when Finn discovers the training droid and chessboard in TFA. In a good continuity or story in this case, you establish things that will come back into play in an important way later down the road. Take Harry Potter for example. The wand maker in the first book and movie tells us that the wand chooses the wizard. And this becomes a very important plot point in the final book and movie where Voldemort thinks that simply possessing this really powerful wand will make him unstoppable when that’s not how that works. Say what you will about JK, but she was really good at managing details like that.
@@achaudhari101 Lucas flat out said himself he toke many things from the EU and applied them to later works objectively the EU was more canon then you'd want it to be
They know. They just won't acknowledge it, they prefer cannibalize it and pretend that the concepts that they steal from the EU are original ideas. Fucking scumbags.
If they did an Old Republic movie/series I'd watch it like 100 times, but they jusz keep sticking to the OT. It doesn't make sense. Basically everyone of every gender and race was a jedi or a sith in the OR, why not make something in this time period. Noone would be mad that they made something that's kinda weird or out of place at the time of the OT.
@@dermegger7733 although I'm kinda scared if that happened. Legends if kinda my place in Star Wars where Disney hasn't infected it yet, so I don't want them messing with it. But with the increasing encroachment into legends as TROS-Dark Empire-relationship showed, it could happen
TFA itself spits on what came before, when you realize that in order to re-create the empire vs rebel dynamic, they needed to take away nearly every major victory that was achieved by the heroes of the OT. TFA actually started this downward spiral, but people just don't realize because it never bothered to explain its own setting.
@@MonteCreations I strongly disagree. Nothing about the previous trilogies were negatively affected by TFA. It's been over 30 years. Nothing stays the same. Just because JJ didn't answer many of mysteries from TFA doesn't mean there weren't logical explanations. There's nothing about the relationship between the 1st order and Resistance, Stoke existence, Luke disappearance, Kylo Ren's, Rey's Finn's or Poe's existence, or Leia and Han's relationship that inherently conflicts with either the OT or PT.
@@thaThRONe yeah , I agree. What TFA was lacking was originality and creativity. To be honest there was some bullshit with Rey Force Abilities and Finn using a lightsaber. Overall it was okay.
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@@thaThRONe you obviously were one of the drunks at the TFA premiere. It is a terrible fucking movie and it shits on everything that came before it. Fuck tfa
@@thaThRONe It doesn't conflict with previous movies but MonteCreations does have a point. Han in TFA was written to emulate Han in A New Hope, which is a regression of character development. Rei also has for to much power for someone with zero training when it has been well established that Jedi training takes years to complete. I will admit that most of the common complaints occur in TLJ but there are still some that can be traced back to TFA
@@RoKBottomStudios I own one off stories in EU because they could fit in the new Canon. Don't try to tell me things are going to be better like you care about me when that is never the case.
@@Sum1BetrThanU1 Why are you against Star Wars being better? You would be no different than someone like Rian Johnson if you are against it being fixed.
Once again, the father of modern fantasy nails it: Immersion is the entire reason we engage with entertainment. We want, if only for a little while, to forget the real world and escape to a fantastic one. Once the rules of that fantastic world are broken, immersion is lost.
People really need to read that essay, it just nails how storytelling works on a fundamental level. Then again people don’t even read the most basic stuff about writing these days, so I don’t hold out much hope.
"Was this worth loosing extended universe?" It was just as worthy as getting your lung replaced by a pair of shitty mechanical ones that don't work half the time and as pleasant as having diarhea 24/7 at random times
When it comes to fiction, continuity is one of the most important things a writer should be focused on. Also, character development and not breaking the rules established in the universe.
Since there’s so many “cinematic universe” right now, the one that comes out on top is the one that maintain its continuity, good story and interesting characters (which MCU succeeded but the others failed to do so).
@@nont18411 MCU is cool, but consistency: not its strong point. It is normal lots of directors and writers, lots of movies produced in very few time. That is an achievement in itself; but no: consistency is not their strong point. I think characters are enjoyable and well designed, and that's what make their franchise a success (IMO)
Vetarlit Torf, there are a few exceptions. Namely the Simpsons and shows like it. It doesn’t matter if it is live action or animation. Anything that resolves the entire plot of a single arc within a given episode qualifies. The Simpsons usually involved something happening that may restrict characters to some degree, but it is resolved by the end of the episode and often times treated as if it didn’t happen. However, this has been established over 30 years worth of episodes. Star Wars relies on a sufficient level of consistency; however, it is not completely consistent. Key example, Luke and Leia were not intended to be siblings in A New Hope, but it ultimately doesn’t change the rules of the universe by retconning that.
@@mattpalmer3092 the simpsons and episodic cartoons do follow the rules, the stablished rule that (save for some exceptions) no episode has real consequence over the world once it's over. Stories can have rules that exist in a meta level, for example the fact that something bad has to happen to character in a tragedy. Having consistency in themes and ideas can also be a way of mantainig the reader engaged. I haven't done the actual analysis but I suspect not following the ideas and themes of the previous movies is also part of the problem with the sequel trilogy
It's like playing rock paper scissors with the kid who I lays bomb, or gun. Breaking the rules and adding lots of new ones mid game it gets boring, confusing, it kills suspense and you don't want to play with that cheater ever again. Same here.
Tolkien is correct. Consistency and continuity are right up there with Plot in how important they are. For instance, the Sonic movie was internally consistent enough with the games that I was able to forget that I was in a movie theater, _even_ with the over abundance of pop music, which does not really belong. Sonic's music genre is rock and roll, not pop and not rap either. Rap is more Knuckles' genre and pop belongs to Tails. But that is Sonic, which is the first of perhaps several movies. Star Wars on the other hand already had six movies out when Disney bought the franchise. And there were forty years worth of fairly consistent, if sometimes questionable quality, books, video games, and comics that came with it in the form of the EU. A bunch of the Force Powers that were supposedly introduced in the Disney Trilogy were actually introduced in the EU, which would have been fine... had they not changed what those powers did. Force Healing is actually supposed to be a healing sleep that a word or a phrase with wake the person healing for example. The Force Skype Calls are supposed to be Force Bonds, which every teacher and student were supposed to have with each other to name just one kind. And then there is the bond between Luke and Leia and Luke and Anakin, a familial Force Bond. And then there was what Mara Jade Skywalker and Luke had. These Force Bonds also had rules that JJ and Johnson broke. ...Not to mention all the other rules they broke... You can't just download knowledge through the Force. Having the knowledge means fuck all if you do not have the proper training. It's like with Luke. He was a good pilot. He spent the rest of his trilogy learning how to be a Jedi. And he didn't try to fight Vader the first time he picked up his father's lightsaber. Having the theoretical knowledge is one thing, putting it to good use, especially if you don't have either an instruction manual or a _teacher_ is something else entirely. You _can_ do without both of those, but the trial and error method of learning takes _years_ not a matter of minutes or hours!
Continuity is what DEFINES an alternate universe. Tolkien's Middle Earth had rules: the Black Riders could not cross water, Gandalf using magic was dangerous because Sauron could notice from afar, use of The One was to go down the road to ruin...just like giving in to anger and hate leads to the Dark Side in Star Wars. If you infringe on the defining characteristics or lose continuity, the story ceases to be set in that universe. It is lost.
I think that's part of what is killing these franchises in general: lack of or disregard of established universe. Most of the writers and directors who have thrown it to the wayside want the name recognition without the effort of making their story or characters work within the established IPs or the time and effort building up for their own new IPs.
You are totally right. Entertainment companies everywhere are cashing in on the brand without actually understanding what made that brand so popular in the first place. What we are left with are sequels that are hallow shells of what the brand used to be. It's happening everywhere, but I think Star Wars was the paradigm shift because there is no movie franchise as popular as Star Wars so for the first time millions of people saw happened to a brand when the canon was not respected.
I think the basic problem is the new creators just don't care about the same things the old creators did. For example they might be inspired by the Star Wars movies, but not the Saturday morning movie serials and Japanese classics that Lucas was inspired by. Their well of inspiration just doesn't go as deep as his did, so the things they create are shallower and less satisfying.
Honestly, now that Legends is being more recognized these days, it convinced me it never really left. It's still Canon and worth mentioning to a lot of people. Including me
Alex Chaudhari George was heavily involved in TCW, which features many things and references to the EU, and considering that we we know for certain that he considered TCW canon, whose to say he didn't consider the EU canon as well? Even if he didn't it doesn't justify what Disney are doing to the franchise
@@achaudhari101 Lucas himself never told the story of what happened after the OT, unfortunately, so there is no possible thing that could be deemed absolute canon. But the Legends stories were produced under Lucas, at least.
@@shadow-squid4872 If he did care for the EU he wouldn't have changed how Order 66 was issued, he wouldn't have made the Fetts not Mandalorians, or even retconned different characters dying. I don't know, EU crowd dislikes the show for doing that.
Alas, continuity seems to have been sacrificed for profit and, well, laziness. And unfortunately, it worked...at least initially. Of course, profit over continuity has alienated many fans, which, if not corrected, in the long run will hurt profit. Gaining some profit by cutting small costs on things like developing a coherent, unified story is not smart in the long run.
You know what's crazy? Completely unrelated to this me and some others got sick of Disney's treatment of things and started our own private subreddit where we can treat the EU as THE canon. We started three days ago. And in three days, we have blossomed to over 210 members, we have a companion UA-cam channel off the ground, daily events. It's just been really breathtaking how fast it has grown. And I've learned two things from it. 1) Disney seriously dropped the ball And 2) People are dying for good Star Wars. It's funny this video released about the same time we were getting going. There are no coincidences after all 😂 If anyone is interested, it's r/TheJediPraxeum but you have to message u/DarthMatu52, u/BrickfilmKing, u/Eames761 or u/Eli217804 for an invite. Keep up the good work Thor! It's on us fans to keep Star Wars alive! May the Force be with you!
@Lionard Kirsch yes indeed! TCW is the bridge between the EU and Disney anyway. But you can discuss anything, it just has to be from the framework of the EU as THE canon. We've had some folks argue for why the Mandalorian should be EU lol. You just have to use evidence from the EU to back your claims that's all
I really want to write a fully fledged Star Wars movie series script fixing continuity errors, updating Jedi and Sith abilities to be more consistent, all while making the ST actually bearable. It would be a million-word script though, and that would take a long time. I'm already too busy writing /r/TheCryopodToHell to do stuff like that.
The Star Wars universe is a gold mine of creativity and stories (and a huge money printing machine...) How is this possible to screw this up so badly? 🤦🏼♂️
Have someone or others more interested than sociopolitical pandering and profiting off the idiot masses than telling a good story with good characters.
Well the first step was Kathleen blatantly tricking Lucas into thinking she respected Star Wars cause Lucas suggested her on that belief the second step was hiring the man who ruined Star Trek to direct the first movie then the final step was hiring a man who's on record saying he wants people to hate his films as much as love them to make the sequel
The Original Trilogy: Luke learned how to use the Force from two Jedi Masters. New Canon: There was also a mathmatician who taught him how to lift noodles, a stormtrooper who could fight with lightsabers, a Force sensitive thief, a Force Doomsday Cult, a Hot Chick who was on a planet that no one can fly away from who also taught him. The Original Trilogy: Luke had two lightsabers, blue and green. New Canon: He actually had a golden lightsaber too. The Original Trilogy: Luke never doubted he was a Jedi. New Canon: Nah, whenever the going got tough, he would throw in the towel and others would have to talk him out of his funk.
Personally I think getting rid of the expanded universe was a huge mistake because the Expanded universe while it wasn’t perfect it did at least had some consistency within it.
I've been saying this for a while. While the old "everything is canon, but some things more than others" system could be a little confusing at times, it didn't really run into the same issues that we're seeing now, like stuff like Forces of Destiny being just as canon as the movies.
Disney made a huge mistake in making a Star Wars film every year (with Main Story films every 2 years and spinoffs films in between) instead of doing what George Lucas did with a Star Wars film every 3 years.
VelCrowd That’s my point, Disney cared more about money and the amount of Star Wars films they can milk in a span of 4 years. (with 5 films in just 4 years) That’s their mistake, they should’ve planned the whole Trilogy first then focus on the spinoff films and shows second instead of just milking Star Wars for all its worth in such a short amount of time without a plan.
You are not wrong. Most of the the time they had very little time to prepare a screenplay and we just winging it. On Rise of Skywalker JJ only had ten months to make it. They started pre-production on episode 7 without a script or a director. And JJ and Kasdan wrote it and rewrote it during production. Rian literally submitted a first draft when episode 7 was in the form of dailies and they reshot the ending to accommodate him for last jedi. Last Jedi was like an 18 month schedule and force awakens was like 15.
I don't think that was the problem. The problem was that they didn't have a plan. They had no clue how to tell stories in an established universe. They thought that, just as with Star Trek, as long as they make some generic Sci-fi and put the right brand name on it, people will buy it.
It’s exactly the question I kept asking as the Disney era progressed. The movies are terrible copies of the OT films and some EU material, and their new expanded material has the sole purpose of plugging the plot holes left by the rushed productions and poor understanding of what Star Wars actually is. It is so frustrating that they think their current material even comes close to the richness of story provided by the original EU. The hope is Disney sell the franchise and the original EU can be reinstated and potentially adapted for the screen.
I enjoyed listening to these eloquently written responses. That goes to show StarWar Fans span at least three generations and comprises many different socioeconomic levels! Not to exclude educational backgrounds. It had something for everyone , the Science Buffs, Geeks, hippy teen, sci fi youngster and oldster! It was a movie series the whole family could enjoy together. I met up with my young teenage son and his friends to see the prequels! Imagine that! Everyone being so happy and excited including me I had the pleasure of treating them all! 20 years later , we still talk about that time, the characters, the lore! Yes continuity is of the utmost! Writer have to be highly creative and StarWars knowledgeable to the tee to expand on this beloved, epic saga with out ruining what went before! That’s what they are paid the big bucks for. It requires the best most creative minds to continue this respectfully. It’s what it demands, deserves, and we deserve!
I love how you ended in the Tolkien quote. So true and so accurate. I just wish Lucasfilm would get back to their roots... I miss Star Wars... Not all who wander are lost... -J.R.R. Tolkien
I agree 100%....But if Lucas Film could competently take full advantage of the "A Star Wars Story" concept & craft good self contained stories which belong to the larger Universe, then they could use those to flesh out the main characters through solo films..... 1 EP 7 - The Force Awakens 2 Son Of Darkness - Kylo Ren solo movie(make it just like the comics we got, include & explain his relationships with Luke, his parents, eventually Snoke & The Knights of Ren) 3. EP 8 - The Last Jedi 4. Fall of The Republic - basically Leia's novel combined with the Rise of The First Order in which we reveal that Palpatine has been behind everything & how he was brought back to life, we get Rey's back story in conjunction with Finn's as they were both taken from their parents at young ages & make all the set ups for EP 9..... I feel these should have been done instead of Rogue One & Solo....Everything made should serve the overarching narrative....Also Star Wars doesn't have solo films.....Marvel does it & look at them😁😁😁
I'm just gonna say it. Let's retcon the current timeline. Then bring back the best parts of The Expanded Universe (which has far more better plots and characters), with a few bit of the Sequels to show both sides are being considered.
Sanderson's Laws of Magic Systems, #1: "An author's ability to solve conflict with magic (in a satisfying way) is directly proportional to how well the reader understands said magic." (Technology=Magic in SciFi) When Han and Chewie (and Finn) were able to break into Starkiller with great ease, I did not understand how they did it (given that sneaking onto Endor was super hard), thus it was unsatisfying. I do not understand why the Holdo manoeuvre worked (given that it didn't before), thus it was unsatisfying. I do not understand how Rey does... pretty much everything she does, thus it is unsatisfying. On the plus side, Force ghosts being able to interact with the world was odd, although it was never used to solve conflict so I tend to give it a pass (if everyone liked the sequels people would shrug their shoulders at those scenes). Sanderson's Laws of Magic Systems, #3: "The author should expand on what is already a part of the magic system before something entirely new is added, as this may otherwise entirely change how the magic systems fits into the fictional world." Disney chose to add powers rather than expand, and this entirely changed how the magic systems fit into the setting. Unsurprisingly the audience was left confused.
@@achaudhari101 Didn't Lucas flat out say himself he only sold it cause he just wanted away from it and was willing to just give it away to anyone if it wasn't for taxes
The fans would still hate Lucas and the Prequels. The one good thing to come from this is the Prequels finally getting the respect they deserve and Lucas is once again seen as great in the fans eyes.
I could take a little continuity lapse as long as what you're giving me instead is good and shows some thought was put into it but they managed to muddle that up too.
As a storyteller myself, I can say continuity is one of the most important things when you create a story. No one will be able to take your world seriously if in one day an important character dies but the very next day your MC pulls out a resurrection magic that literally never existed before.
I'm okay with minor inconsistencies here and there (ie: the semantics of Qui-Gon being offered a position on the Jedi Council in the novel "Master and Apprentice" when the movies state he was too unruly to even be considered, especially since it explains why in the book). And being expected to follow every minute detail of hundreds of stories before it is madness. And to that end, I'll give the Sequel Trilogy a break. HOWEVER, it isn't even following its own continuity from film to film.
A question that's created a significant gap in continuity to me is why did the Skywalker lightsaber call out to Rey Palpatine? Like the Chewbacca defense; IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!
at the point the ST's Continuity is more useless then Splinters of the Mind's Eye, Operation Cinder is rendered completely redundant, The implications that Snoke always existed and was older than the Empire is now just plain wrong. The 3 -4 ways the NR was either Horribly corrupt or was already run by the Imps anyway . Palpy apparently made his I'm back speech in fortnite before any of his ships were 100%.
4:10 Yeah and that's another reason why for example the novel Darth Plagueis is so beloved. I too hope am hoping this was an important lesson for Lucasfilm and tptb, but I'm not going to hold my breathe. Maybe in a few more years when there's (hopefully) new leadership.
ehsnils that’s what highly talented, visionary writers are paid for! When you have sub-talent that’s what you get! Problems with inconsistencies and reuse of Palpatine and ruining Anakins Story Arch! Dummies! We are smarter than what we got!!
Chapter 1: Tom is a knight and is on his way to slay a dragon because it ate his parents. Chapter 2: The princess Tom is unable to make friends with the foreign king (who isn't a dragon) because her father wants Tom to become an astronaut. This is not a story because the linear events have no relation to each other, and established facts are disregarded. What you have is random things happening for no reason instead of a story. Continuity is literally everything.
Continuity is what separated Star Wars from every other movie franchise. It made the Star Wars movies a saga with on singular vision and story across 6 movies. There was no other movie series like Star Wars. Until Disney messed it all up that is.
Continuity is a foundation fo all story telling, shore there could inconsistency's hear and there, but with the right righting and plan they can be justified.
The two trilogies after the Original Trilogy are great examples of how to and how not to play with continuity. Forget the dialogue and pacing issues. The Prequel trilogy was actively creating and altering existing continuity. But it was done in such a way as to enhance the Original trilogy and add depth to the world. Most of the stuff that was changed was grey area or stuff that could be explained away pretty easily. Continuity was bent and not everything maybe should have been done, but from a story and continuity perspective, Lucas told us a story worth telling without ruining what came before. The sequel trilogy is the counter example. While they changed continuity and not all of the changes were facts we knew about the universe (some of it was grey areas or things not explained or explicitly clarified before), they time and time again altered the continuity in ways that created plot holes in what came before and/or diminished the value of those previous trilogies and their stories. Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you should. And continuity gives a writer a very reasonable set of "laws" to follow when working in a story universe. If I CAN rob someone, even if I know how I could get away with it, doesn't mean it's the right thing or something I SHOULD do. If everyone just goes around breaking laws like the Disney has continuity, in both cases you're left with chaos and anarchy and everyone loses in the long run.
With no respect for lore and canon a writer with an agenda could turn Anakin Skywalker into Anna Skywalker, turn Darth Vader into Darth VadHER and totally destroy the single greatest villain in film history by making VadHER a feminist seeking to stamp out the patriarchy instead of a Sith Lord seeking to stamp out any resistance against the Emperor. Someone at Lucasfilm could legitimately sign off on that story being told...think about that. If someone wants to go that route via fan fiction that's fine, but if the actual lore keepers and owners of the franchise decide to make that change...who can stop them?
I recently re-stumbled across a Quentin Tarantino interview that seems appropriate here, in which he talks about the importance of knowing the universe you're working in inside out. Here's a snippet: "...if you’re creating a mythology you gotta know all the rules of that, it doesn’t matter what the audience knows - they have to know that YOU know."
@@ajzeg01 The problem with LSG was never their creative authority (the point of LSG is mainly to plan the franchise ahead of time). The problem is that they're not doing their job properly.
@@vetarlittorf1807 Yeah, I agree. While I think they've been doing a good job with the books and comics, the movies just don't really feel like they're even in the same universe as them.
has anyone noticed that luke skywalker is missing from the new canon novels? sidenote: right now legends books are way better than canon books i can count good canon books on my fingers. i need about 20 extra sets limbs to count good legends books.
As a writers, it is our job to bring our readers into the worlds we create, to immerse them so they feel like they're part of it, sitting in the cockpit with the MC flying through an asteroid field, or dodging blaster fire. It's our job to get them so invested, they can easily imagine a blaster in their hand as they become the character fighting enemies, discovering elements about themselves, learning secrets of the universe, laughing at the lighthearted moments, and crying or feeling empathy in moments of pain and sorrow. If you say, "I lost track of time," when we ask if you liked what you read, then we've done our job. That and 'I couldn't put it down,' are two of the biggest compliments a writer can receive. We've taken you out of this world and put you into ours. Staying true to the rules of the world we create, and the base lore are fundamental to making sure this happens. This is no easy task, especially if you're like me and have ADHD and five thousand ideas that all want to be told at once. If anyone says writing is easy, they've lying. Writing is a long, hard, lonely, trying process of walking across a glass road barefoot with the end in sight, but no idea how you're going to get there, or IF you're going to get there, or how many branches this path will take. But when we really get invested in the world we create, that's when we can turn a lump of coal into a diamond with the power of language.
Yes, it's you. :) P.s I used one of your comments in an e-mail to Thor explaining the issues regarding Diversity Wars. I hope Thor reads the e-mail. :/
@@ajzeg01 , The High Republic thing... The thing with a lot of misinformed people in the comment section. I can't blame Thor for that since he was thoroughly uniformed prior to making the video...
Mira's comment brings to mind Sanderson's First Law of Magic, which states: "the ability of a writer to resolve conflict with [magic] is *directly proportional* to the audience's understanding of that [magic]". I bracket "magic" in this case because really, this law is a general law of foreshadowing stated in a such a way as to be specific to writing fantasy magic systems; "magic" is just a placeholder term for any element of a story under discussion. Mira's statement is essentially that canon and continuity are the means by which an audience gains the ability to understand the various elements of a narrative well enough for a writer to use them to resolve that narrative's conflicts. If a writer breaks continuity then this breaks the audience's mental model of the story, which in turn breaks the writer's ability to successfully resolve the story. Now, it is generally agreed by most writers that what is most important is that a given story be able to support its own weight until the end. Plot holes simply don't matter if the audience doesn't notice them until after they have finished consuming and enjoying the story, because the story did its job (if the audience leaves the theater with the impression that their time there was worth their time and money and won't leave bad reviews that will harm future sales, then you've succeeded), and the ability to hold together even on repeat viewings/readings is just gravy (eg if I couldn't state half a dozen reasons why the Holdo Maneuver broke the entire Star Wars setting within mere seconds of it being performed even without referring to the other films, never mind the EU, and instead had only noticed on the drive home, I would have been far less critical of it). This caveat has its own caveat however, in that plot holes noticed by the audience between installments in a series do affect the ability of the series as a whole to support its own weight until the end. In other words, if you can't go back and edit out your plot holes (eg in a series) then the importance of avoiding plot holes in the first place (ie respecting continuity) is not just proportional to the total length of the work, but also proportional to the number of installments and the size of the fanbase. Though naturally the caveat to *that* is inherently episodic franchises like newspaper comics, the Commedia ell'Arte, the Simpsons, and Detective Conan where the audience is not promised a continuity that will be relevant across installments; if an understanding of continuity is not required for the audience to believe the resolution of the conflict, then the writer is free to not create continuity in direct proportion to how little that understanding is demanded of the audience.
About the Holdo Maneuver--Ive noticed that people talk about it as if SW FTL has a ship accelerate to FTL speed in realspace when they actually leave realspace and enter hyperspace. That alone should make the Holdo Maneuver impossible. When Han mentions in ANH that hyperspace travel requires precise calculations to not go too close to a super nova or sun was because high concentrations of gravity rips ships out of hyperspace. The Empire even built Interdictor ships that artificially generate huge gravity wells to pull ships out of hyperspace and then parked them next to known hyperspace lanes. Hyperspace in SW is more akin to worm hole travel than travelling through actual space. So the maneuver breaks canon in just the very nature of how FTL travel in SW works.
A story of fantasy is probably the most important one where suspension of disbelief must be maintained. There are ways to continue a suspension of disbelief. One of the ways is to remember to keep consistent.
Disney unofficially de-canonized the original 6 movies. They didn’t “officially,” but by their actions they have absolutely de-canonized Eps. 1-6 and simply re-purposed the same character likenesses into their own new universe with the Star Wars logo taped over it.
I don't understand why they have felt the need to kill characters off like Han and Luke. They could just have them ride off into the sunset. It's such a final thing and it leads to things like them having to bring them back to life again (Because they always need to don't they?) with canon and continuity breaking results. For example bringing the Emperor back to life was a weak weak cop out because of this reason. If he got well and truly killed in RotJ and became ressurected then what is to stop him coming back to life again this time and the next time, and the time after that? They have in effect created an invincible villian.
Considering George said the story for him ends after RotJ and "there is no episode 7" allowing the EU to be created gave him the advantage of keeping his fans engaged while not having to put in all the work. At the same time he can say "it's not my Star Wars" and keep his options open if he ever did decide to go back to it. We as fans never knew what was in George's head so even though the EU was never canon, many of us considered it to be so because we had nothing else. Initially, I was quite excited about the prospect of Disney taking the reigns. A company with the budget and resources to give us everything we craved. I was itching to see Mara Jade and the Solo kids take on the Yuuzhan Vong. Then the announcement that the EU is being scrapped came out. This disappointed me but, I was still hopeful that new Star Wars would be better than no Star Wars. I was wrong, I've delved deeper into the old EU than ever before since the Disney Wars trilogy arrived. It's just better in every way and I can't even fathom the decision to drop it in favour of a more consistent and cohesive story, especially when that's not what we got.
if i was given the rights to star wars i would reconnect cannon and legend, make an alternate star wars timeline called alternate cannon which removes Disney's cannon and repairs the damage that Disney has done to cannon and the originals legacy plus alternate cannon will respect source material and not touch or ruin the legacy of the originals and the characters hahaha Looking at you rise of skywalker and the last jedi .tell me what you guys think of that idea, do you think its a good idea or a cringy one, comment please, i like feedback :)
@@achaudhari101 what??? i dont seek to gain revenge on Disney but to fix there mistakes and we all know what i said will not happen plus i dont have a problem with rouge one or the Mandalorian or even solo i have a problem with Disney's main star wars trilogy which tarnished the original trilogy.
@@pizzaparker5452 Alex is just saying you're butt hurt cause he's a known shill that tries this shit on anyone who even slightly dislikes the sequels best to not interact unless you're willing to suffer a headache
An in depth canon like pre-Disney Star Wars is enough to be the physics of that universe, if you mess with universal physics people will question everything they know.
I wish I hadn't missed this poll, or I would've pointed out Leland Chee's ingenious hierarchical continuity system that was for some unfathomable reason discarded. Pretending the original EU never had continuity errors is a mistake, so this allowed the works that contradicted something more important to the overall story to still exist in the universe, albeit at a demoted status, so anything that couldn't have happened didn't. The perfect example is Timothy Zahn's The Last Command, which gave a wildly different history of the Clone Wars than Attack of the Clones. This novel is the conclusion to the beloved Thrawn trilogy, so removing it from the universe entirely would've been extremely disappointing. Instead it was just demoted so that scene and any others that contradict works of a higher continuity level can be taken with a grain of salt. I don't know if the Gtory Group thought they could catch every contradiction before it was publicized, or they just didn't care, but they needed Chee's system from the very start
Sometimes I enjoy a series breaking canon, and then the explanation as to why it was possible becomes a new plot point. The idea isn’t that you can’t, it’s the you should be responsible without treatment of canon. Kylo in Last Jedi felt like Deadpool talking directly to us (totally meta woah) and essentially said that audiences don’t deserve explanations and writers deserve infinite praise for garbage stories.
The poll I want is simple, who should get there own show/movie Qui-Gon Jin- a story of his time as a Jedi knight, being friends with doku meeting Obi-wan ect Yoda- I mean he so old you have a vast amount to draw from Mace Windu- The badass MFer of the Galaxy who wouldnt want to see him at work Palpitine- a master of politics following him as he plots the overthrow of the republic or the control of the empire, heck even a origin story A clone or storm trooper focused movie- put some humanity behind the helmets
Since Disney is a profit seeking/making company, you have to put it in terms the executives will understand, who only see Star Wars as source for return on investment. Every break in continuity, every plot hole will cost you money. Shallow, two-dimensional, or unrealistic characters will mean losses in merchandising sales. These are expensive lessons to learn.
Yesterday a friend of mine shared an image of TROS text crawl as he was watching it... I replied to him “don’t bother... they released a book and half of the movie is pretty much a lie now”... i was joking, but nonetheless... that’s just about that particular movie, I think this new trilogy made most of the saga irrelevant.
Continuity and consistently is definitely important. Continuity doesn’t mean changing the past to work on the future, it’s adding to what is and what was the world you are making. Since there is overdramatic problem now that nobody should speak of. However, I do know politics are a little boring. Sure, people can show their political agenda or put it in the books that they make but right now isn’t a time for political agenda. Right now it is a time for protection just like continuity and consistency is to the world you make. That’s all I have to say have a wonderful and safe day.
We have a perfect example of what happens when you don't care about continuity: the X-Men movies. The continuity was a joke, with only the first three movies and Days of Future Past making an effort. It really undercut my enjoyment of the series - if you can call several disjointed stories a series - and I think contributed to the overall poor quality of several of the films. How cool would it have been if, for example, they'd built up the story of the Dark Phoenix across several movies, instead of trying to stuff it into one? (Twice.) I feel in their focus only on what might make money, Fox really missed the mark. I hope that Disney doesn't end up with the same convoluted mess.
The X-Men franchise continuity is fine actually. It's just that some people don't know that the events of X1-Origins were erased. Also, blame Disney for the failure of Dark Phoenix. Originally that was supposed to be a two-parter before the acquisition interfered.
I'm going to tell you a little story. When I first saw star wars, i saw them as just movies I enjoyed, nothing special. When Phantom Menace and Clone wars came out, I had NO IDEA they were prequals, or that Anakin was Darth Vader. I thought it was just a separate Star wars story that took place in the future, and I enjoyed it. It was only a few weeks before Revenge of the Sith came out, some one told me Anakin would kill his wife, i remember thinking "what? why?" Then I realized after doing a little digging it was supposed to be a prequal, I was stunned and disappointed. All this advanced machinary I saw in the prequals, and suddenly its gone or unused in the supposed future of Darth Vader? I personally thought it was weird, but i she's and moved on. I really think to make a good trilogy of movies, they need to reference the originals because now its cemented in everyone's heads that it must be so. Hell, even i think there has to be some sort of reference to the old movies because im so used to them myself now
Continuity is important. The Star Wars Expanded Universe (EU) of 1977-2014 was vital to the development of Star Wars with the likes of the Pre-Republic Era (13,000,000 BBY-25,053 BBY: Dawn of the Jedi and to a lesser extent Knights of the Old Republic/The Old Republic), the Old Republic Era (25,053 BBY-1,000 BBY: Knights of the Old Republic/The Old Republic, Tales of the Jedi, Knight Errant, Jedi vs. Sith, Star Wars: Vector and The Darth Bane Trilogy), the Rise of the Empire Era (1,000 BBY-0 BBY: The Darth Bane Trilogy, Darth Plagueis, The Darth Maul Trilogy, Jedi Apprentice, Jedi Quest, Outbound Flight, Gennady Tartakovsky's Clone Wars, Jango Fett: Open Seasons, Star Wars: Bounty Hunter, Zam Wessell, Star Wars: Republic, Star Wars: The Clone Wars, The Prequel Trilogy, The Force Unleashed, The Coruscant Nights Trilogy, Original Star Wars: Battlefront, Star Wars: Purge, Star Wars: Empire, Star Wars: Rebellion, Darth Vader and the Ninth Assassin, Darth Vader and the Lost Command, Darth Vader and the Ghost Prison, Dark Forces, the Original Marvel Star Wars, The Star Wars Holiday Special, Ewoks TV movies, Star Wars: Droids, Star Wars: Ewoks, Empire at War, and The Original Trilogy), the Rebellion Era (0 BBY-5 ABY: Original Trilogy and all of the other stuff in the Rise of the Empire Era), the New Republic Era (5 ABY-25 ABY: The Thrawn Trilogy, The Dark Empire Trillgy, Jedi Knight/Jedi Outcast/Jedi Academy, Star Wars: Union and The New Jedi Order), the New Jedi Order Era (25 ABY-37 ABY: The Dark Nest Trilogy, Fate of the Jedi and Legacy of the Force) and the Legacy Era (37 ABY-140 ABY: The cancelled Sword of the Jedi Trilogy and Star Wars: Legacy). As of how I try to handle the Star Wars Universe about 90% of the Star Wars Expanded Universe (EU) as canon but some Disney era Star Wars is included such as Star Wars: Rebels, Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order, Ahsoka, Tarkin, Dooku: Jedi Lost, Rogue One, the other Thrawn Trilogy, New Marvel Star Wars (including Darth Vader) and other Original Trilogy comics/novels (Rise of the Empire Era), The Mandalorian (New Republic Era) and to a lesser extent Star Wars: The High Republic (High Republic Era/Old Republic Era and Rise of the Empire Era).
One way they could add new Force Powers could be from Luke continuing to learn from Yoda, Obi Wan, and/or Qui Gon. That's one advantage they have after the OT that they didn't have in the Prequels
Watch Robot Head’s video about how stupid the bombers were in TLJ. The breaking of canon in relation to these abominations of starships compared to movies we have seen earlier was abysmal. When everyone who loves Star Wars knows how these did not fit the universe, that far, far better ships already existed decades before in the universe, within 5 minutes of the movie starting you lost me (and I’m sure I want the only one). You’ve said it before - it’s just sad and frustrating that we the fans love Star Wars so much more than those who now run it do. Filoni and Favreau excepted.
Honestly I don't know how you can keep such a positive outlook on Star Wars. I've tried but now I'm just jaded to Star Wars and have been distancing myself to Star Wars. At this point I'd rather watch the Star Wars IP burn and die than have a glorious resurgence.
Continuity is crucial to the “hard core” fans. To a significant number of the casual fans (the vast majority of the movie-going public who propelled even episode 8 & 9 to billion dollar gross in ticket sales) it’s not that big a deal. They aren’t as invested in the story or the world. They’re like tourists who pop into Disney World once every couple of years. If something doesn’t quite match their last visit it’s moment or two of interest before they turn to look for the new rides. The hard core fans are more like residents of Orlando or people who get into Disney World every month. They’re the ones who spend money on merch. They’re the ones who will buy every novel or every comic. They’re the ones who write Shakespeare versions of your scripts, or pay actual money to go watch someone perform them. They’re the ones who buy hundreds of dollars worth of miniatures or RPG sourcebooks. They’re the ones who will fork out tons of cash at conventions and get their kids (the core of the next generation of fans who will come to episode 14, 15, & 16) into the series. The thing is, being consistent with your story doesn’t turn off your normie fans (and they’re the ones who will make a franchise popular), and from whom you’re hard-core fans will come. Being inconsistent can drive away you’re hard-core fans, and they are the ones who will make your popular franchise a long-term cultural phenomenon. And make you far more money off of merchandising than you ever made selling movie tickets. Some franchises, like Star Trek are riddled with cannon inconsistencies, yet all it seems to do with Trek fans is create all kinds of debate on the various fan sites and wikis. But the stories still had a common core that went beyond what warp scales, or Klingon forehead ridges. It’s that core that STD has missed.
I can't believe the Disney Star Wars. Empire is back, Palps is back, Luke is fallen, FTL travel is weaponized, and the lead character was a Mary Sue. There are too many holes: ancient knife which can only be 30 years old max, Palps gonna take over Reys body if she kills him but Kylo killed Smoke so it would be crazy to have Rey do nothing over 3 movies. Except life rocks.
Without continuity you end up with the fiasco of the X-Men movies. Prof X dead, oh wait, never mind. Wolverine’s adamantium claws cut off, oh wait, never mind. Disney needs one passionate Star Wars fan to be in charge.
Fans: Ripley, how should we handle Disney Star Wars? Ripley: I say we take off and nuke the entire sight from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure. Disney: whoa whoa whoa I can’t authorize that kind of action. There’s a substantial dollar amount attached to this intellectual property. Okay so maybe we made a bad call on the story but we can update things with books and comics. Ripley slams Disney against the wall: A bad call? A bad call? This franchise is dead, Disney! At the next investor meeting I’m gonna nail you to wall.
I’m a fan of the SCP Foundation. There is very loose continuity, in that some articles contradict others. However, some of my favorite articles on the site are the ones that use existing and popular continuity to create new stories, sometimes retconning or adding details to previous ideas. The varying continuity works bc the SCP deals with the multiverse on a regular basis. Star Wars is not SCP. There isn’t a multiverse within the canon. They are locked into their history. If you mess with that, you can break what came before, or hinder future stories from being told. This is the exact opposite of what retcons are meant to do. The best example of a retcon done right is Green Lantern Rebirth, in which we learn Parallax is a fear entity. This completely changed the Green Lantern mythos while still respecting the history, but opened up so many new story threads. It opened doors for a myriad of stories to be told, instead of closing doors. The best example of a retcon done wrong is the most recent Doctor Who episode. It does the opposite of opening up doors for new stories.
I write not only original stories but also fan fiction. To me it is important that events and rules are 100% consistent. When you have a POV narration this can alter because it's what a character thinks happened or is happening and what the world is as they understand it. There is no POV narration in SW so therefore consistency should be vital. AND especially when we are talking about the central 9 films (10 if you count Rogue One which i would, 11 if you count that other film that doesn't matter) rather than the EU although obviously that helps as well. When I'm writing I want events to happen and for that people have to be in certain places at certain times with certain talents or abilities BUT it is up for me as the writer to justify this not just make up special powers (OK I can foresee sometime you might if writing about magic (Jedi)) or a series of ridiculous coincidences to force the event into happening. On coincidences I feel some are too harsh on these because coincidences are often exactly what helps make a good story as without them there would be no story. In TV for instance you would often run with 5-10 main characters who have to have a lot of stories from week to week so repeatedly having important relatives and friends and repeatedly finding themselves in challenging and often rare situations is exactly what makes good continuing drama. However there's coincidences and then there's having ridiculous luck on a regular basis Nd I guess TFA's bumping into Solo in a contrived fashion is what I'm talking about. I suppose someone will claim it's the Force manipulating Rey's path - OK well explain that with your narrative!
Continuity isn’t just part of the story, it often is the story.
That might be one of the wisest things I have ever heard. *Good Job.*
Whoa Obi Wan Kenobi and Darth Vaber agreeing on something
Continuity isn’t just meant for cute little callbacks like when Finn discovers the training droid and chessboard in TFA. In a good continuity or story in this case, you establish things that will come back into play in an important way later down the road. Take Harry Potter for example. The wand maker in the first book and movie tells us that the wand chooses the wizard. And this becomes a very important plot point in the final book and movie where Voldemort thinks that simply possessing this really powerful wand will make him unstoppable when that’s not how that works. Say what you will about JK, but she was really good at managing details like that.
@@carrierominger5534 Because they are master a master of evil and a master of troll side of force.
“Was this worth losing the EU?”
No, next question.
EU wasn’t Canon to Lucas as well.
@@achaudhari101 and yet he brought things from the EU and canonize it
@@achaudhari101 Lucas flat out said himself he toke many things from the EU and applied them to later works objectively the EU was more canon then you'd want it to be
@Danta It’s called cherry-picking. It wasn’t HIS Canon though.
@@achaudhari101 If certain things are canon guess what the EU still has canon in it you can't blanket statement call it all non canon
If Disney realized the goldmine that is now Legends and how they could've monetized it, it would still be here.
LeafgreenSniper Watch them backtrack and canonize Revan and shit
Luckily they keep selling Legends material. Though pre-2014 Legends books are now much more valuable.
They know. They just won't acknowledge it, they prefer cannibalize it and pretend that the concepts that they steal from the EU are original ideas. Fucking scumbags.
If they did an Old Republic movie/series I'd watch it like 100 times, but they jusz keep sticking to the OT. It doesn't make sense. Basically everyone of every gender and race was a jedi or a sith in the OR, why not make something in this time period. Noone would be mad that they made something that's kinda weird or out of place at the time of the OT.
@@dermegger7733 although I'm kinda scared if that happened. Legends if kinda my place in Star Wars where Disney hasn't infected it yet, so I don't want them messing with it. But with the increasing encroachment into legends as TROS-Dark Empire-relationship showed, it could happen
This trilogy doesn't just spit on the two previous trilogies. Each movie after TFA spits on the previous movie.
TFA itself spits on what came before, when you realize that in order to re-create the empire vs rebel dynamic, they needed to take away nearly every major victory that was achieved by the heroes of the OT. TFA actually started this downward spiral, but people just don't realize because it never bothered to explain its own setting.
@@MonteCreations I strongly disagree. Nothing about the previous trilogies were negatively affected by TFA. It's been over 30 years. Nothing stays the same. Just because JJ didn't answer many of mysteries from TFA doesn't mean there weren't logical explanations. There's nothing about the relationship between the 1st order and Resistance, Stoke existence, Luke disappearance, Kylo Ren's, Rey's Finn's or Poe's existence, or Leia and Han's relationship that inherently conflicts with either the OT or PT.
@@thaThRONe yeah , I agree. What TFA was lacking was originality and creativity. To be honest there was some bullshit with Rey Force Abilities and Finn using a lightsaber. Overall it was okay.
@@thaThRONe you obviously were one of the drunks at the TFA premiere. It is a terrible fucking movie and it shits on everything that came before it. Fuck tfa
@@thaThRONe It doesn't conflict with previous movies but MonteCreations does have a point. Han in TFA was written to emulate Han in A New Hope, which is a regression of character development. Rei also has for to much power for someone with zero training when it has been well established that Jedi training takes years to complete. I will admit that most of the common complaints occur in TLJ but there are still some that can be traced back to TFA
I never lost the expanded universe, it's still star wars to me
Amen
Debatable. I’m not here to tell you something that it’s going to be okay.
It’s the only Star Wars. At this point disney can make quality content and I still wouldn’t care. My mushroom bruises will never heal.
@@RoKBottomStudios I own one off stories in EU because they could fit in the new Canon. Don't try to tell me things are going to be better like you care about me when that is never the case.
@@Sum1BetrThanU1 Why are you against Star Wars being better? You would be no different than someone like Rian Johnson if you are against it being fixed.
Once again, the father of modern fantasy nails it: Immersion is the entire reason we engage with entertainment. We want, if only for a little while, to forget the real world and escape to a fantastic one. Once the rules of that fantastic world are broken, immersion is lost.
People really need to read that essay, it just nails how storytelling works on a fundamental level. Then again people don’t even read the most basic stuff about writing these days, so I don’t hold out much hope.
"Was this worth loosing extended universe?"
It was just as worthy as getting your lung replaced by a pair of shitty mechanical ones that don't work half the time and as pleasant as having diarhea 24/7 at random times
I knew Vader had breathing problems, but I didn't know about the diarrhea.
@@DarthWillSmith well RepMed Vitapaste 24/7 probably isn't good for your digestion.
Now THAT'S a part of the EU I'm glad got thrown out
Why does everyone keep thinking that "losing" has two Os in it? Jesus Christ.
Well, better than General Grievous's athsmatic coughing lol
@@Killerbee4712 it was okay until George Lucas retconned Tartakovsky's Clone Wars which gave it an actually okay explanation.
Fans: "George...did you do it"
George: "Yes"
Fans: "What did it cost?"
George: "Everything"
When it comes to fiction, continuity is one of the most important things a writer should be focused on. Also, character development and not breaking the rules established in the universe.
Since there’s so many “cinematic universe” right now, the one that comes out on top is the one that maintain its continuity, good story and interesting characters (which MCU succeeded but the others failed to do so).
@@nont18411 MCU is cool, but consistency: not its strong point. It is normal lots of directors and writers, lots of movies produced in very few time. That is an achievement in itself; but no: consistency is not their strong point. I think characters are enjoyable and well designed, and that's what make their franchise a success (IMO)
Star Wars isn't a cartoon, you can't keep changing the rules every movie and let the plots be driven by contrivances.
You can't do those things in cartoons either.
Vetarlit Torf, there are a few exceptions. Namely the Simpsons and shows like it. It doesn’t matter if it is live action or animation. Anything that resolves the entire plot of a single arc within a given episode qualifies. The Simpsons usually involved something happening that may restrict characters to some degree, but it is resolved by the end of the episode and often times treated as if it didn’t happen.
However, this has been established over 30 years worth of episodes. Star Wars relies on a sufficient level of consistency; however, it is not completely consistent. Key example, Luke and Leia were not intended to be siblings in A New Hope, but it ultimately doesn’t change the rules of the universe by retconning that.
The clone wars doesn't do that
@@mattpalmer3092 the simpsons and episodic cartoons do follow the rules, the stablished rule that (save for some exceptions) no episode has real consequence over the world once it's over. Stories can have rules that exist in a meta level, for example the fact that something bad has to happen to character in a tragedy. Having consistency in themes and ideas can also be a way of mantainig the reader engaged.
I haven't done the actual analysis but I suspect not following the ideas and themes of the previous movies is also part of the problem with the sequel trilogy
It's like playing rock paper scissors with the kid who I lays bomb, or gun. Breaking the rules and adding lots of new ones mid game it gets boring, confusing, it kills suspense and you don't want to play with that cheater ever again. Same here.
ShadowKing's comment was perfect because that's exactly what fiction becomes without continuity or an established story.
Tolkien is correct. Consistency and continuity are right up there with Plot in how important they are.
For instance, the Sonic movie was internally consistent enough with the games that I was able to forget that I was in a movie theater, _even_ with the over abundance of pop music, which does not really belong. Sonic's music genre is rock and roll, not pop and not rap either. Rap is more Knuckles' genre and pop belongs to Tails. But that is Sonic, which is the first of perhaps several movies.
Star Wars on the other hand already had six movies out when Disney bought the franchise. And there were forty years worth of fairly consistent, if sometimes questionable quality, books, video games, and comics that came with it in the form of the EU.
A bunch of the Force Powers that were supposedly introduced in the Disney Trilogy were actually introduced in the EU, which would have been fine... had they not changed what those powers did. Force Healing is actually supposed to be a healing sleep that a word or a phrase with wake the person healing for example.
The Force Skype Calls are supposed to be Force Bonds, which every teacher and student were supposed to have with each other to name just one kind. And then there is the bond between Luke and Leia and Luke and Anakin, a familial Force Bond. And then there was what Mara Jade Skywalker and Luke had.
These Force Bonds also had rules that JJ and Johnson broke. ...Not to mention all the other rules they broke...
You can't just download knowledge through the Force. Having the knowledge means fuck all if you do not have the proper training.
It's like with Luke. He was a good pilot. He spent the rest of his trilogy learning how to be a Jedi. And he didn't try to fight Vader the first time he picked up his father's lightsaber.
Having the theoretical knowledge is one thing, putting it to good use, especially if you don't have either an instruction manual or a _teacher_ is something else entirely. You _can_ do without both of those, but the trial and error method of learning takes _years_ not a matter of minutes or hours!
Do you know what Quinlan Vos and Cal Kestis have? Psychometric powers which they can absorb the essence of objects.
@@achaudhari101 And _what_ exactly does this have to do with my point?
Point is that Force Power exists.
@@achaudhari101 ...Which has absolutely nothing to do with my point, which was about Continuity and Consistency. Not Force Powers.
@@RoKBottomStudios You mean three legendary movies and another three that aren't even that praised? Sure.
Continuity is what DEFINES an alternate universe. Tolkien's Middle Earth had rules: the Black Riders could not cross water, Gandalf using magic was dangerous because Sauron could notice from afar, use of The One was to go down the road to ruin...just like giving in to anger and hate leads to the Dark Side in Star Wars. If you infringe on the defining characteristics or lose continuity, the story ceases to be set in that universe. It is lost.
I think that's part of what is killing these franchises in general: lack of or disregard of established universe. Most of the writers and directors who have thrown it to the wayside want the name recognition without the effort of making their story or characters work within the established IPs or the time and effort building up for their own new IPs.
You are totally right. Entertainment companies everywhere are cashing in on the brand without actually understanding what made that brand so popular in the first place. What we are left with are sequels that are hallow shells of what the brand used to be.
It's happening everywhere, but I think Star Wars was the paradigm shift because there is no movie franchise as popular as Star Wars so for the first time millions of people saw happened to a brand when the canon was not respected.
I think the basic problem is the new creators just don't care about the same things the old creators did. For example they might be inspired by the Star Wars movies, but not the Saturday morning movie serials and Japanese classics that Lucas was inspired by. Their well of inspiration just doesn't go as deep as his did, so the things they create are shallower and less satisfying.
Honestly, now that Legends is being more recognized these days, it convinced me it never really left. It's still Canon and worth mentioning to a lot of people. Including me
It actually still isn’t Canon even to Lucas. Don’t know why the Disney stuff has to die in a fire but okay.
Alex Chaudhari George was heavily involved in TCW, which features many things and references to the EU, and considering that we we know for certain that he considered TCW canon, whose to say he didn't consider the EU canon as well? Even if he didn't it doesn't justify what Disney are doing to the franchise
@@achaudhari101 Lucas himself never told the story of what happened after the OT, unfortunately, so there is no possible thing that could be deemed absolute canon. But the Legends stories were produced under Lucas, at least.
@@shadow-squid4872 If he did care for the EU he wouldn't have changed how Order 66 was issued, he wouldn't have made the Fetts not Mandalorians, or even retconned different characters dying. I don't know, EU crowd dislikes the show for doing that.
@@achaudhari101 How had it done that explain and the Disney crap had no backbone at all.
Alas, continuity seems to have been sacrificed for profit and, well, laziness. And unfortunately, it worked...at least initially. Of course, profit over continuity has alienated many fans, which, if not corrected, in the long run will hurt profit. Gaining some profit by cutting small costs on things like developing a coherent, unified story is not smart in the long run.
You know what's crazy? Completely unrelated to this me and some others got sick of Disney's treatment of things and started our own private subreddit where we can treat the EU as THE canon. We started three days ago.
And in three days, we have blossomed to over 210 members, we have a companion UA-cam channel off the ground, daily events. It's just been really breathtaking how fast it has grown.
And I've learned two things from it. 1) Disney seriously dropped the ball
And
2) People are dying for good Star Wars.
It's funny this video released about the same time we were getting going. There are no coincidences after all 😂
If anyone is interested, it's r/TheJediPraxeum but you have to message u/DarthMatu52, u/BrickfilmKing, u/Eames761 or u/Eli217804 for an invite.
Keep up the good work Thor! It's on us fans to keep Star Wars alive! May the Force be with you!
@Lionard Kirsch yes indeed! TCW is the bridge between the EU and Disney anyway.
But you can discuss anything, it just has to be from the framework of the EU as THE canon. We've had some folks argue for why the Mandalorian should be EU lol. You just have to use evidence from the EU to back your claims that's all
I really want to write a fully fledged Star Wars movie series script fixing continuity errors, updating Jedi and Sith abilities to be more consistent, all while making the ST actually bearable. It would be a million-word script though, and that would take a long time. I'm already too busy writing /r/TheCryopodToHell to do stuff like that.
@@Klokinator I tried to add you buy says user doesn't exist?
@Lionard Kirsch the Jedi Praxeum!
ua-cam.com/channels/hr0wj3jEMtNubOOtxQXeWA.html
It's sparse right now, but we have several videos on the way
@@DarthMatusHolocron I linked a subreddit, not a user. My username is /u/Klokinator
The Star Wars universe is a gold mine of creativity and stories (and a huge money printing machine...)
How is this possible to screw this up so badly? 🤦🏼♂️
Both sides can be to blame.
Have someone or others more interested than sociopolitical pandering and profiting off the idiot masses than telling a good story with good characters.
Well the first step was Kathleen blatantly tricking Lucas into thinking she respected Star Wars cause Lucas suggested her on that belief the second step was hiring the man who ruined Star Trek to direct the first movie then the final step was hiring a man who's on record saying he wants people to hate his films as much as love them to make the sequel
@@achaudhari101 both sides?
Quite easily, by not actually caring about the universe. That's why stuff got fucked up so badly in the Disney trilogy.
The Original Trilogy: Luke learned how to use the Force from two Jedi Masters.
New Canon: There was also a mathmatician who taught him how to lift noodles, a stormtrooper who could fight with lightsabers, a Force sensitive thief, a Force Doomsday Cult, a Hot Chick who was on a planet that no one can fly away from who also taught him.
The Original Trilogy: Luke had two lightsabers, blue and green.
New Canon: He actually had a golden lightsaber too.
The Original Trilogy: Luke never doubted he was a Jedi.
New Canon: Nah, whenever the going got tough, he would throw in the towel and others would have to talk him out of his funk.
This is Darth Bullsith of the Galactic Notification Empire! All wings, report in!
Bullsith, standing by!
Red Five standing by!
@@thorskywalker Lock S-Foils in attack position
Blue 63, hoping for a clear and smooth flight.
Strider 1 reporting in. Stick with Thor and you'll make it.
Jittery Battle droid Standing by!
1:37 that’s my art again! I really appreciate you putting it in these videos as other people can see the stuff that I’m pretty proud of. Thank you.
You're very welcome, happy to share it!
Personally I think getting rid of the expanded universe was a huge mistake because the Expanded universe while it wasn’t perfect it did at least had some consistency within it.
The difference between legends and Canon; legends had a "canon tier system" while canon expects us to believe everything is 100% canon all the time.
A tier system should have never existed to begin with.
@@achaudhari101
Legends spanned over 30 some odd years. A tier list was a absolutely necessary.
I've been saying this for a while. While the old "everything is canon, but some things more than others" system could be a little confusing at times, it didn't really run into the same issues that we're seeing now, like stuff like Forces of Destiny being just as canon as the movies.
@@RobinSwede G Canon? S Canon? B Canon? Like I don't think any other franchise had to do that, not even Lord of the Rings.
@@achaudhari101
Anecdotal evidence
I love it
Once again I wish UA-cam would send me notifications when you post a poll cause I hardly ever participate in them
If you don’t show consistency, it can show the writers don’t care enough
EU = passion + talent.
Disney = woke + no talent.
Disney made a huge mistake in making a Star Wars film every year (with Main Story films every 2 years and spinoffs films in between) instead of doing what George Lucas did with a Star Wars film every 3 years.
VelCrowd That’s my point, Disney cared more about money and the amount of Star Wars films they can milk in a span of 4 years. (with 5 films in just 4 years) That’s their mistake, they should’ve planned the whole Trilogy first then focus on the spinoff films and shows second instead of just milking Star Wars for all its worth in such a short amount of time without a plan.
And none of those Disney made films were mediocre at best!
You are not wrong. Most of the the time they had very little time to prepare a screenplay and we just winging it. On Rise of Skywalker JJ only had ten months to make it. They started pre-production on episode 7 without a script or a director. And JJ and Kasdan wrote it and rewrote it during production. Rian literally submitted a first draft when episode 7 was in the form of dailies and they reshot the ending to accommodate him for last jedi. Last Jedi was like an 18 month schedule and force awakens was like 15.
I don't think that was the problem.
The problem was that they didn't have a plan.
They had no clue how to tell stories in an established universe.
They thought that, just as with Star Trek, as long as they make some generic Sci-fi and put the right brand name on it, people will buy it.
There can never be a good story without continuity.
It’s exactly the question I kept asking as the Disney era progressed. The movies are terrible copies of the OT films and some EU material, and their new expanded material has the sole purpose of plugging the plot holes left by the rushed productions and poor understanding of what Star Wars actually is.
It is so frustrating that they think their current material even comes close to the richness of story provided by the original EU.
The hope is Disney sell the franchise and the original EU can be reinstated and potentially adapted for the screen.
Paul Barton keep hoping
Without continuity you don't have an immersive world, all you have is a logo.
I enjoyed listening to these eloquently written responses. That goes to show StarWar Fans span at least three generations and comprises many different socioeconomic levels! Not to exclude educational backgrounds. It had something for everyone , the Science Buffs, Geeks, hippy teen, sci fi youngster and oldster! It was a movie series the whole family could enjoy together. I met up with my young teenage son and his friends to see the prequels! Imagine that! Everyone being so happy and excited including me I had the pleasure of treating them all! 20 years later , we still talk about that time, the characters, the lore! Yes continuity is of the utmost! Writer have to be highly creative and StarWars knowledgeable to the tee to expand on this beloved, epic saga with out ruining what went before! That’s what they are paid the big bucks for. It requires the best most creative minds to continue this respectfully. It’s what it demands, deserves, and we deserve!
And because fans think it's important, Lucasfilm is ultimately wrong. As their bottomline has demonstrated.
Back in the force awakens, I gave LucasFilm a chance to have a Solid continuity.
Now I have regrets.
“Who needs continuity when we’ve given you such great characters as Rey, Poe, Finn, DJ, Rose, and Holdo?” - Lucasfilm story group
I love how you ended in the Tolkien quote. So true and so accurate. I just wish Lucasfilm would get back to their roots... I miss Star Wars...
Not all who wander are lost... -J.R.R. Tolkien
I agree 100%....But if Lucas Film could competently take full advantage of the "A Star Wars Story" concept & craft good self contained stories which belong to the larger Universe, then they could use those to flesh out the main characters through solo films.....
1 EP 7 - The Force Awakens
2 Son Of Darkness - Kylo Ren solo movie(make it just like the comics we got, include & explain his relationships with Luke, his parents, eventually Snoke & The Knights of Ren)
3. EP 8 - The Last Jedi
4. Fall of The Republic - basically Leia's novel combined with the Rise of The First Order in which we reveal that Palpatine has been behind everything & how he was brought back to life, we get Rey's back story in conjunction with Finn's as they were both taken from their parents at young ages & make all the set ups for EP 9.....
I feel these should have been done instead of Rogue One & Solo....Everything made should serve the overarching narrative....Also Star Wars doesn't have solo films.....Marvel does it & look at them😁😁😁
I'm just gonna say it.
Let's retcon the current timeline. Then bring back the best parts of The Expanded Universe (which has far more better plots and characters), with a few bit of the Sequels to show both sides are being considered.
Not really.
Why won't UA-cam let me thumb up this another 30 times
That's the dumbest idea I've heard since the sequel trilogy
Lionard Kirsch don't respond, he's extremely toxic, and hates the EU
@Lionard Kirsch yeah, he's just a troll who stalks Expanded Universe fans. Just ignore him
Money is their sole motivation. Therefore, if you keep going to see it, it will just justify their way of thinking.
The old EU didn't have contradictions, for the most part, until 2008 TCW
I don't consider TCW as cannon, I only accept CW 2003.
There were some created by the prequel trilogy that were later fixed.
ajzeg01 yeah, but they were just background details mostly, and chronological things.
Also, the authors attempted to slot it together.
@Rohan Dahiya Pluta you can't really disagree with facts lmao
Sanderson's Laws of Magic Systems, #1: "An author's ability to solve conflict with magic (in a satisfying way) is directly proportional to how well the reader understands said magic." (Technology=Magic in SciFi)
When Han and Chewie (and Finn) were able to break into Starkiller with great ease, I did not understand how they did it (given that sneaking onto Endor was super hard), thus it was unsatisfying. I do not understand why the Holdo manoeuvre worked (given that it didn't before), thus it was unsatisfying. I do not understand how Rey does... pretty much everything she does, thus it is unsatisfying.
On the plus side, Force ghosts being able to interact with the world was odd, although it was never used to solve conflict so I tend to give it a pass (if everyone liked the sequels people would shrug their shoulders at those scenes).
Sanderson's Laws of Magic Systems, #3: "The author should expand on what is already a part of the magic system before something entirely new is added, as this may otherwise entirely change how the magic systems fits into the fictional world."
Disney chose to add powers rather than expand, and this entirely changed how the magic systems fit into the setting. Unsurprisingly the audience was left confused.
If it's possible could you make a video talking about how Star Wars would be today if Disney never bought
That is a very, very interesting video idea.
LucasFilm would be bankrupt because that was actually one of the reasons why he sold it.
@@achaudhari101 Didn't Lucas flat out say himself he only sold it cause he just wanted away from it and was willing to just give it away to anyone if it wasn't for taxes
The fans would still hate Lucas and the Prequels. The one good thing to come from this is the Prequels finally getting the respect they deserve and Lucas is once again seen as great in the fans eyes.
I think continuity is so important to SW because the franchise takes place in such an imaginative and expansive universe
I could take a little continuity lapse as long as what you're giving me instead is good and shows some thought was put into it but they managed to muddle that up too.
Just Retcon starting from TFA... we’ll happily forget TLJ and TRS even exist..
I have my own canon. Disney can shove off.
I think most people are doing this.
Head cannon. As they say!
Off a cliff!
@Michael Gleason Except the EU isn’t Canon. The thread should know that.
@@achaudhari101 Disney shill, no matter what you say. Disney trilogy isn't canon.
As a storyteller myself, I can say continuity is one of the most important things when you create a story.
No one will be able to take your world seriously if in one day an important character dies but the very next day your MC pulls out a resurrection magic that literally never existed before.
Without continuity, stories hold no value and thus don’t matter and there is no point in investing your personal time and money into it
I'm okay with minor inconsistencies here and there (ie: the semantics of Qui-Gon being offered a position on the Jedi Council in the novel "Master and Apprentice" when the movies state he was too unruly to even be considered, especially since it explains why in the book). And being expected to follow every minute detail of hundreds of stories before it is madness. And to that end, I'll give the Sequel Trilogy a break.
HOWEVER, it isn't even following its own continuity from film to film.
Ketsuban Solo that book was sooooooooooooo bad, don't even start with it.
@@whitneylackenbauer9782 I mean it's definitely not as good as Lost Stars but I wouldn't say it's "bad" (unlike, say, Aftermath)
A question that's created a significant gap in continuity to me is why did the Skywalker lightsaber call out to Rey Palpatine? Like the Chewbacca defense; IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!
at the point the ST's Continuity is more useless then Splinters of the Mind's Eye, Operation Cinder is rendered completely redundant, The implications that Snoke always existed and was older than the Empire is now just plain wrong. The 3 -4 ways the NR was either Horribly corrupt or was already run by the Imps anyway . Palpy apparently made his I'm back speech in fortnite before any of his ships were 100%.
4:10 Yeah and that's another reason why for example the novel Darth Plagueis is so beloved.
I too hope am hoping this was an important lesson for Lucasfilm and tptb, but I'm not going to hold my breathe. Maybe in a few more years when there's (hopefully) new leadership.
Continuity and consistency is important on the large parts. For finer details it's always hard to keep them consistent.
ehsnils that’s what highly talented, visionary writers are paid for! When you have sub-talent that’s what you get! Problems with inconsistencies and reuse of Palpatine and ruining Anakins Story Arch! Dummies! We are smarter than what we got!!
Yet the majority of people out there are still feeding them money so they see nothing wrong. Nothing will change, because people are lazy
And completely stupid. Still get people in other comment sections trying to justify how great Disney SW is
Yea I'm definitely afraid of Disney making star wars into a super hero franchise in this high republic era...
Chapter 1: Tom is a knight and is on his way to slay a dragon because it ate his parents.
Chapter 2: The princess Tom is unable to make friends with the foreign king (who isn't a dragon) because her father wants Tom to become an astronaut.
This is not a story because the linear events have no relation to each other, and established facts are disregarded. What you have is random things happening for no reason instead of a story.
Continuity is literally everything.
Continuity is what separated Star Wars from every other movie franchise. It made the Star Wars movies a saga with on singular vision and story across 6 movies. There was no other movie series like Star Wars. Until Disney messed it all up that is.
Continuity is a foundation fo all story telling, shore there could inconsistency's hear and there, but with the right righting and plan they can be justified.
The two trilogies after the Original Trilogy are great examples of how to and how not to play with continuity.
Forget the dialogue and pacing issues. The Prequel trilogy was actively creating and altering existing continuity. But it was done in such a way as to enhance the Original trilogy and add depth to the world. Most of the stuff that was changed was grey area or stuff that could be explained away pretty easily. Continuity was bent and not everything maybe should have been done, but from a story and continuity perspective, Lucas told us a story worth telling without ruining what came before.
The sequel trilogy is the counter example. While they changed continuity and not all of the changes were facts we knew about the universe (some of it was grey areas or things not explained or explicitly clarified before), they time and time again altered the continuity in ways that created plot holes in what came before and/or diminished the value of those previous trilogies and their stories. Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you should. And continuity gives a writer a very reasonable set of "laws" to follow when working in a story universe. If I CAN rob someone, even if I know how I could get away with it, doesn't mean it's the right thing or something I SHOULD do. If everyone just goes around breaking laws like the Disney has continuity, in both cases you're left with chaos and anarchy and everyone loses in the long run.
With no respect for lore and canon a writer with an agenda could turn Anakin Skywalker into Anna Skywalker, turn Darth Vader into Darth VadHER and totally destroy the single greatest villain in film history by making VadHER a feminist seeking to stamp out the patriarchy instead of a Sith Lord seeking to stamp out any resistance against the Emperor.
Someone at Lucasfilm could legitimately sign off on that story being told...think about that. If someone wants to go that route via fan fiction that's fine, but if the actual lore keepers and owners of the franchise decide to make that change...who can stop them?
I recently re-stumbled across a Quentin Tarantino interview that seems appropriate here, in which he talks about the importance of knowing the universe you're working in inside out. Here's a snippet: "...if you’re creating a mythology you gotta know all the rules of that, it doesn’t matter what the audience knows - they have to know that YOU know."
Hey, Thor. Could you make a poll about what fans think of Pablo Hidalgo as the head of LSG?
Is he a leader now?
🤢🤮
He's a cool guy. I met him once. Knows his shit. I think the story group just doesn't have enough power and can't veto certain ideas that may not fit.
@@ajzeg01 The problem with LSG was never their creative authority (the point of LSG is mainly to plan the franchise ahead of time). The problem is that they're not doing their job properly.
@@vetarlittorf1807 Yeah, I agree. While I think they've been doing a good job with the books and comics, the movies just don't really feel like they're even in the same universe as them.
Hope whoever is reading this keeps positive in times like these.
has anyone noticed that luke skywalker is missing from the new canon novels?
sidenote: right now legends books are way better than canon books
i can count good canon books on my fingers.
i need about 20 extra sets limbs to count good legends books.
As a writers, it is our job to bring our readers into the worlds we create, to immerse them so they feel like they're part of it, sitting in the cockpit with the MC flying through an asteroid field, or dodging blaster fire. It's our job to get them so invested, they can easily imagine a blaster in their hand as they become the character fighting enemies, discovering elements about themselves, learning secrets of the universe, laughing at the lighthearted moments, and crying or feeling empathy in moments of pain and sorrow. If you say, "I lost track of time," when we ask if you liked what you read, then we've done our job. That and 'I couldn't put it down,' are two of the biggest compliments a writer can receive. We've taken you out of this world and put you into ours. Staying true to the rules of the world we create, and the base lore are fundamental to making sure this happens.
This is no easy task, especially if you're like me and have ADHD and five thousand ideas that all want to be told at once. If anyone says writing is easy, they've lying. Writing is a long, hard, lonely, trying process of walking across a glass road barefoot with the end in sight, but no idea how you're going to get there, or IF you're going to get there, or how many branches this path will take. But when we really get invested in the world we create, that's when we can turn a lump of coal into a diamond with the power of language.
Disney! “Thats not how the force works”
2:39 Hey, it’s me!
Yes, it's you. :)
P.s I used one of your comments in an e-mail to Thor explaining the issues regarding Diversity Wars. I hope Thor reads the e-mail. :/
@@aralornwolf3140 Which one? Was it the Ahsoka thing? Or the High Republic thing?
@@ajzeg01 ,
The High Republic thing... The thing with a lot of misinformed people in the comment section. I can't blame Thor for that since he was thoroughly uniformed prior to making the video...
@@aralornwolf3140 Ah, okay.
@@ajzeg01 ,
I just hope Thor understands and looks at the sources I sent him.
Have a good day and May the Force be With You.
Mira's comment brings to mind Sanderson's First Law of Magic, which states: "the ability of a writer to resolve conflict with [magic] is *directly proportional* to the audience's understanding of that [magic]". I bracket "magic" in this case because really, this law is a general law of foreshadowing stated in a such a way as to be specific to writing fantasy magic systems; "magic" is just a placeholder term for any element of a story under discussion.
Mira's statement is essentially that canon and continuity are the means by which an audience gains the ability to understand the various elements of a narrative well enough for a writer to use them to resolve that narrative's conflicts. If a writer breaks continuity then this breaks the audience's mental model of the story, which in turn breaks the writer's ability to successfully resolve the story.
Now, it is generally agreed by most writers that what is most important is that a given story be able to support its own weight until the end. Plot holes simply don't matter if the audience doesn't notice them until after they have finished consuming and enjoying the story, because the story did its job (if the audience leaves the theater with the impression that their time there was worth their time and money and won't leave bad reviews that will harm future sales, then you've succeeded), and the ability to hold together even on repeat viewings/readings is just gravy (eg if I couldn't state half a dozen reasons why the Holdo Maneuver broke the entire Star Wars setting within mere seconds of it being performed even without referring to the other films, never mind the EU, and instead had only noticed on the drive home, I would have been far less critical of it). This caveat has its own caveat however, in that plot holes noticed by the audience between installments in a series do affect the ability of the series as a whole to support its own weight until the end. In other words, if you can't go back and edit out your plot holes (eg in a series) then the importance of avoiding plot holes in the first place (ie respecting continuity) is not just proportional to the total length of the work, but also proportional to the number of installments and the size of the fanbase. Though naturally the caveat to *that* is inherently episodic franchises like newspaper comics, the Commedia ell'Arte, the Simpsons, and Detective Conan where the audience is not promised a continuity that will be relevant across installments; if an understanding of continuity is not required for the audience to believe the resolution of the conflict, then the writer is free to not create continuity in direct proportion to how little that understanding is demanded of the audience.
About the Holdo Maneuver--Ive noticed that people talk about it as if SW FTL has a ship accelerate to FTL speed in realspace when they actually leave realspace and enter hyperspace. That alone should make the Holdo Maneuver impossible.
When Han mentions in ANH that hyperspace travel requires precise calculations to not go too close to a super nova or sun was because high concentrations of gravity rips ships out of hyperspace. The Empire even built Interdictor ships that artificially generate huge gravity wells to pull ships out of hyperspace and then parked them next to known hyperspace lanes.
Hyperspace in SW is more akin to worm hole travel than travelling through actual space. So the maneuver breaks canon in just the very nature of how FTL travel in SW works.
I talk about this in pretty much every canon video I do. Consistency is key to continuity.
A story of fantasy is probably the most important one where suspension of disbelief must be maintained.
There are ways to continue a suspension of disbelief.
One of the ways is to remember to keep consistent.
Thor how do you have just 138‘000 Subs you should have 1Million you deserve it.
Disney unofficially de-canonized the original 6 movies. They didn’t “officially,” but by their actions they have absolutely de-canonized Eps. 1-6 and simply re-purposed the same character likenesses into their own new universe with the Star Wars logo taped over it.
I don't understand why they have felt the need to kill characters off like Han and Luke. They could just have them ride off into the sunset. It's such a final thing and it leads to things like them having to bring them back to life again (Because they always need to don't they?) with canon and continuity breaking results. For example bringing the Emperor back to life was a weak weak cop out because of this reason. If he got well and truly killed in RotJ and became ressurected then what is to stop him coming back to life again this time and the next time, and the time after that? They have in effect created an invincible villian.
Considering George said the story for him ends after RotJ and "there is no episode 7" allowing the EU to be created gave him the advantage of keeping his fans engaged while not having to put in all the work. At the same time he can say "it's not my Star Wars" and keep his options open if he ever did decide to go back to it.
We as fans never knew what was in George's head so even though the EU was never canon, many of us considered it to be so because we had nothing else.
Initially, I was quite excited about the prospect of Disney taking the reigns. A company with the budget and resources to give us everything we craved. I was itching to see Mara Jade and the Solo kids take on the Yuuzhan Vong. Then the announcement that the EU is being scrapped came out. This disappointed me but, I was still hopeful that new Star Wars would be better than no Star Wars.
I was wrong, I've delved deeper into the old EU than ever before since the Disney Wars trilogy arrived. It's just better in every way and I can't even fathom the decision to drop it in favour of a more consistent and cohesive story, especially when that's not what we got.
You are strong and wise and I am very proud of you. May the Force be with you always
if i was given the rights to star wars i would reconnect cannon and legend, make an alternate star wars timeline called alternate cannon which removes Disney's cannon and repairs the damage that Disney has done to cannon and the originals legacy plus alternate cannon will respect source material and not touch or ruin the legacy of the originals and the characters hahaha Looking at you rise of skywalker and the last jedi .tell me what you guys think of that idea, do you think its a good idea or a cringy one, comment please, i like feedback :)
I think we'd all like to do that. Or, if not all of us, then most of us.
@@burritoboy2751 yeah, when you think about it , its the only real solution to fixing star wars as a franchise
@pizza parker No because you just want the new stuff to die out of spite. I know vindictiveness when I see it.
@@achaudhari101 what??? i dont seek to gain revenge on Disney but to fix there mistakes and we all know what i said will not happen plus i dont have a problem with rouge one or the Mandalorian or even solo i have a problem with Disney's main star wars trilogy which tarnished the original trilogy.
@@pizzaparker5452 Alex is just saying you're butt hurt cause he's a known shill that tries this shit on anyone who even slightly dislikes the sequels best to not interact unless you're willing to suffer a headache
Some of the artwork looks really good I wish I could draw as good. Fans can do really great stuff it shows the love and care.
An in depth canon like pre-Disney Star Wars is enough to be the physics of that universe, if you mess with universal physics people will question everything they know.
I wish I hadn't missed this poll, or I would've pointed out Leland Chee's ingenious hierarchical continuity system that was for some unfathomable reason discarded. Pretending the original EU never had continuity errors is a mistake, so this allowed the works that contradicted something more important to the overall story to still exist in the universe, albeit at a demoted status, so anything that couldn't have happened didn't. The perfect example is Timothy Zahn's The Last Command, which gave a wildly different history of the Clone Wars than Attack of the Clones. This novel is the conclusion to the beloved Thrawn trilogy, so removing it from the universe entirely would've been extremely disappointing. Instead it was just demoted so that scene and any others that contradict works of a higher continuity level can be taken with a grain of salt. I don't know if the Gtory Group thought they could catch every contradiction before it was publicized, or they just didn't care, but they needed Chee's system from the very start
Sometimes I enjoy a series breaking canon, and then the explanation as to why it was possible becomes a new plot point. The idea isn’t that you can’t, it’s the you should be responsible without treatment of canon. Kylo in Last Jedi felt like Deadpool talking directly to us (totally meta woah) and essentially said that audiences don’t deserve explanations and writers deserve infinite praise for garbage stories.
The poll I want is simple, who should get there own show/movie
Qui-Gon Jin- a story of his time as a Jedi knight, being friends with doku meeting Obi-wan ect
Yoda- I mean he so old you have a vast amount to draw from
Mace Windu- The badass MFer of the Galaxy who wouldnt want to see him at work
Palpitine- a master of politics following him as he plots the overthrow of the republic or the control of the empire, heck even a origin story
A clone or storm trooper focused movie- put some humanity behind the helmets
Since Disney is a profit seeking/making company, you have to put it in terms the executives will understand, who only see Star Wars as source for return on investment. Every break in continuity, every plot hole will cost you money. Shallow, two-dimensional, or unrealistic characters will mean losses in merchandising sales. These are expensive lessons to learn.
Yesterday a friend of mine shared an image of TROS text crawl as he was watching it... I replied to him “don’t bother... they released a book and half of the movie is pretty much a lie now”... i was joking, but nonetheless... that’s just about that particular movie, I think this new trilogy made most of the saga irrelevant.
Continuity and consistently is definitely important. Continuity doesn’t mean changing the past to work on the future, it’s adding to what is and what was the world you are making. Since there is overdramatic problem now that nobody should speak of. However, I do know politics are a little boring. Sure, people can show their political agenda or put it in the books that they make but right now isn’t a time for political agenda. Right now it is a time for protection just like continuity and consistency is to the world you make. That’s all I have to say have a wonderful and safe day.
We have a perfect example of what happens when you don't care about continuity: the X-Men movies. The continuity was a joke, with only the first three movies and Days of Future Past making an effort. It really undercut my enjoyment of the series - if you can call several disjointed stories a series - and I think contributed to the overall poor quality of several of the films. How cool would it have been if, for example, they'd built up the story of the Dark Phoenix across several movies, instead of trying to stuff it into one? (Twice.) I feel in their focus only on what might make money, Fox really missed the mark. I hope that Disney doesn't end up with the same convoluted mess.
The X-Men franchise continuity is fine actually. It's just that some people don't know that the events of X1-Origins were erased.
Also, blame Disney for the failure of Dark Phoenix. Originally that was supposed to be a two-parter before the acquisition interfered.
Good guy Thor doing the polls and research Disney/Lucasfilm should be doing
A story with an band of Bounty Hunters including an Ewok Bounty Hunter sounds amazing.
I'm going to tell you a little story.
When I first saw star wars, i saw them as just movies I enjoyed, nothing special.
When Phantom Menace and Clone wars came out, I had NO IDEA they were prequals, or that Anakin was Darth Vader. I thought it was just a separate Star wars story that took place in the future, and I enjoyed it.
It was only a few weeks before Revenge of the Sith came out, some one told me Anakin would kill his wife, i remember thinking "what? why?"
Then I realized after doing a little digging it was supposed to be a prequal, I was stunned and disappointed.
All this advanced machinary I saw in the prequals, and suddenly its gone or unused in the supposed future of Darth Vader?
I personally thought it was weird, but i she's and moved on.
I really think to make a good trilogy of movies, they need to reference the originals because now its cemented in everyone's heads that it must be so.
Hell, even i think there has to be some sort of reference to the old movies because im so used to them myself now
Have a poll on “What if Finn” was the main protagonists of the films and was the aspiring Jedi!
Continuity is important. The Star Wars Expanded Universe (EU) of 1977-2014 was vital to the development of Star Wars with the likes of the Pre-Republic Era (13,000,000 BBY-25,053 BBY: Dawn of the Jedi and to a lesser extent Knights of the Old Republic/The Old Republic), the Old Republic Era (25,053 BBY-1,000 BBY: Knights of the Old Republic/The Old Republic, Tales of the Jedi, Knight Errant, Jedi vs. Sith, Star Wars: Vector and The Darth Bane Trilogy), the Rise of the Empire Era (1,000 BBY-0 BBY: The Darth Bane Trilogy, Darth Plagueis, The Darth Maul Trilogy, Jedi Apprentice, Jedi Quest, Outbound Flight, Gennady Tartakovsky's Clone Wars, Jango Fett: Open Seasons, Star Wars: Bounty Hunter, Zam Wessell, Star Wars: Republic, Star Wars: The Clone Wars, The Prequel Trilogy, The Force Unleashed, The Coruscant Nights Trilogy, Original Star Wars: Battlefront, Star Wars: Purge, Star Wars: Empire, Star Wars: Rebellion, Darth Vader and the Ninth Assassin, Darth Vader and the Lost Command, Darth Vader and the Ghost Prison, Dark Forces, the Original Marvel Star Wars, The Star Wars Holiday Special, Ewoks TV movies, Star Wars: Droids, Star Wars: Ewoks, Empire at War, and The Original Trilogy), the Rebellion Era (0 BBY-5 ABY: Original Trilogy and all of the other stuff in the Rise of the Empire Era), the New Republic Era (5 ABY-25 ABY: The Thrawn Trilogy, The Dark Empire Trillgy, Jedi Knight/Jedi Outcast/Jedi Academy, Star Wars: Union and The New Jedi Order), the New Jedi Order Era (25 ABY-37 ABY: The Dark Nest Trilogy, Fate of the Jedi and Legacy of the Force) and the Legacy Era (37 ABY-140 ABY: The cancelled Sword of the Jedi Trilogy and Star Wars: Legacy). As of how I try to handle the Star Wars Universe about 90% of the Star Wars Expanded Universe (EU) as canon but some Disney era Star Wars is included such as Star Wars: Rebels, Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order, Ahsoka, Tarkin, Dooku: Jedi Lost, Rogue One, the other Thrawn Trilogy, New Marvel Star Wars (including Darth Vader) and other Original Trilogy comics/novels (Rise of the Empire Era), The Mandalorian (New Republic Era) and to a lesser extent Star Wars: The High Republic (High Republic Era/Old Republic Era and Rise of the Empire Era).
One way they could add new Force Powers could be from Luke continuing to learn from Yoda, Obi Wan, and/or Qui Gon. That's one advantage they have after the OT that they didn't have in the Prequels
Watch Robot Head’s video about how stupid the bombers were in TLJ. The breaking of canon in relation to these abominations of starships compared to movies we have seen earlier was abysmal. When everyone who loves Star Wars knows how these did not fit the universe, that far, far better ships already existed decades before in the universe, within 5 minutes of the movie starting you lost me (and I’m sure I want the only one).
You’ve said it before - it’s just sad and frustrating that we the fans love Star Wars so much more than those who now run it do. Filoni and Favreau excepted.
Honestly I don't know how you can keep such a positive outlook on Star Wars. I've tried but now I'm just jaded to Star Wars and have been distancing myself to Star Wars. At this point I'd rather watch the Star Wars IP burn and die than have a glorious resurgence.
Hello There Thor!
Master M! You are a bold one...
Continuity is crucial to the “hard core” fans. To a significant number of the casual fans (the vast majority of the movie-going public who propelled even episode 8 & 9 to billion dollar gross in ticket sales) it’s not that big a deal. They aren’t as invested in the story or the world. They’re like tourists who pop into Disney World once every couple of years. If something doesn’t quite match their last visit it’s moment or two of interest before they turn to look for the new rides. The hard core fans are more like residents of Orlando or people who get into Disney World every month. They’re the ones who spend money on merch. They’re the ones who will buy every novel or every comic. They’re the ones who write Shakespeare versions of your scripts, or pay actual money to go watch someone perform them. They’re the ones who buy hundreds of dollars worth of miniatures or RPG sourcebooks. They’re the ones who will fork out tons of cash at conventions and get their kids (the core of the next generation of fans who will come to episode 14, 15, & 16) into the series.
The thing is, being consistent with your story doesn’t turn off your normie fans (and they’re the ones who will make a franchise popular), and from whom you’re hard-core fans will come. Being inconsistent can drive away you’re hard-core fans, and they are the ones who will make your popular franchise a long-term cultural phenomenon. And make you far more money off of merchandising than you ever made selling movie tickets.
Some franchises, like Star Trek are riddled with cannon inconsistencies, yet all it seems to do with Trek fans is create all kinds of debate on the various fan sites and wikis. But the stories still had a common core that went beyond what warp scales, or Klingon forehead ridges. It’s that core that STD has missed.
I can't believe the Disney Star Wars. Empire is back, Palps is back, Luke is fallen, FTL travel is weaponized, and the lead character was a Mary Sue. There are too many holes: ancient knife which can only be 30 years old max, Palps gonna take over Reys body if she kills him but Kylo killed Smoke so it would be crazy to have Rey do nothing over 3 movies. Except life rocks.
Without continuity you end up with the fiasco of the X-Men movies. Prof X dead, oh wait, never mind. Wolverine’s adamantium claws cut off, oh wait, never mind. Disney needs one passionate Star Wars fan to be in charge.
Fans: Ripley, how should we handle Disney Star Wars?
Ripley: I say we take off and nuke the entire sight from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.
Disney: whoa whoa whoa I can’t authorize that kind of action. There’s a substantial dollar amount attached to this intellectual property. Okay so maybe we made a bad call on the story but we can update things with books and comics.
Ripley slams Disney against the wall: A bad call? A bad call? This franchise is dead, Disney! At the next investor meeting I’m gonna nail you to wall.
Star Wars isn’t dead though.
Alex Chaudhari Of course it’s not dead. It just fit the dialogue of the movie Aliens better to say it that way.
About this 'modern day mythology' because it's very interesting. I am great fan of Warhammer 40k, and that's how I view it.
I’m a fan of the SCP Foundation. There is very loose continuity, in that some articles contradict others. However, some of my favorite articles on the site are the ones that use existing and popular continuity to create new stories, sometimes retconning or adding details to previous ideas. The varying continuity works bc the SCP deals with the multiverse on a regular basis.
Star Wars is not SCP. There isn’t a multiverse within the canon. They are locked into their history. If you mess with that, you can break what came before, or hinder future stories from being told. This is the exact opposite of what retcons are meant to do.
The best example of a retcon done right is Green Lantern Rebirth, in which we learn Parallax is a fear entity. This completely changed the Green Lantern mythos while still respecting the history, but opened up so many new story threads. It opened doors for a myriad of stories to be told, instead of closing doors.
The best example of a retcon done wrong is the most recent Doctor Who episode. It does the opposite of opening up doors for new stories.
I write not only original stories but also fan fiction. To me it is important that events and rules are 100% consistent. When you have a POV narration this can alter because it's what a character thinks happened or is happening and what the world is as they understand it. There is no POV narration in SW so therefore consistency should be vital. AND especially when we are talking about the central 9 films (10 if you count Rogue One which i would, 11 if you count that other film that doesn't matter) rather than the EU although obviously that helps as well.
When I'm writing I want events to happen and for that people have to be in certain places at certain times with certain talents or abilities BUT it is up for me as the writer to justify this not just make up special powers (OK I can foresee sometime you might if writing about magic (Jedi)) or a series of ridiculous coincidences to force the event into happening.
On coincidences I feel some are too harsh on these because coincidences are often exactly what helps make a good story as without them there would be no story. In TV for instance you would often run with 5-10 main characters who have to have a lot of stories from week to week so repeatedly having important relatives and friends and repeatedly finding themselves in challenging and often rare situations is exactly what makes good continuing drama. However there's coincidences and then there's having ridiculous luck on a regular basis Nd I guess TFA's bumping into Solo in a contrived fashion is what I'm talking about. I suppose someone will claim it's the Force manipulating Rey's path - OK well explain that with your narrative!