Primordial Serpent Frampt was born from the Pygmy Ludleth.
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
- A lore theory regarding the Primordial Serpents Frampt and Kaathe and how they have more in common with Manus, and Pygmies. And that they are born from the pygmy royalty.
- Ігри
This is a really interesting theory, it would explain why the serpents have such human-like faces.
Indeed, I've always had doubts about why these serpents looked nothing similar to Ancient Dragons.
Coming back to Dark Souls from a lengthy hiatus. Sitting here wondering to myself about the primordial serpents, how significant a piece of the puzzle they are, their relation to humanity considering their roles and how they would be interpreted from a Japanese perspective. Do a quick search and here I am. Excellent vid. Looking forward to anything else you can piece together.
Thanks for great comment friend. Glad I could help with piecing the Dark Souls lore together. :)
More lore videos are in the works. :)
BEST DS LORE VIDEO EVER , finally real theories on the primordial serpents , honestly good job sir !
Thank you friend.
I really love your videos! You point out so many excellent observations and then separately deliver thought-provoking theories based on them.
I love thinking about your theories. And factoring your observations into my head-canon regardless if it aligns with your theory or not is really fun.
I mean observations like:
Hooded-woman-Velka-looking statue in Iron Keep in DS2
Item description change on Chaos-infused Server in DS1
8 serpents in ds1 / 8 pigmy kings in DS3
Just fires up my imagination. Your videos are must-watch tier :)
Thanks for sharing!
(Not a comprehensive list of thought-provoking observations you've brought to my attention. Just a few off the top of my head.)
Thanks for the great comment friend. I'm super happy to hear my theories fire up your imagination.
I have a few more Dark Souls lore video ideas in the works. Havel, Mourne, the East, & Dragons are videos/lore are the current ones. :)
This is some deep (not dark, or maybe) theory presented here. Plausible and mind stimulating, these are great vids, keep it up!!
This was a fantastic video, I always look forward to anything you put out.
As Yorshka says, "Heirdom taketh many forms indeed."
Thanks for the great comment friend!
well I feel stupid now
I was complaining that I wanted a Courland DLC in Dark Souls III and you are telling me now that that´s precisely what we got?
quite around the nose
but interesting, also Frampt becomes more dubious with each video I watch
you have figured it out. this is so groundbreaking
Thank you my friend.
Maybe Ludleth isn’t Frampt. Considering the skull ring is transposed, this means a soul was used. Ludleth being able to use a transposing kiln he could’ve transposed the soul of Frampt after he died; either Ludleth slaying Frampt or someone else did and brought the soul to Ludleth.
Or Kaathe or any other serpent could’ve been slain to transpose the soul into a ring
Yuria does state that she has failed Kaathe's dying wish. Maybe Kaathe was killed and his soul transposed?
Another eye opening video! Thank you for the insight!
Thanks friend! I'll try my best to continue making more lore videos with new theories.
Wow this all makes so much sense.
You deserve more subs + views
Thanks for the great comment friend.
Hey Yoshimitsu great video. In the video you mention a Miyazaki interview held on "電撃PlayStation vol 636 ", I wanted to know if you would have the full interview and not just parts of it (I'm looking for this interview like crazy)
Primordial serpent could indicate they where the first of the serpents
Very true. Although because of the statues in the ringed city, I question if they're serpents at all.
The Souls games could totally do with a new translation, your videos do show how much context can be missed and also i really appreciate how you use citation to substantiate your points
I would love to see the souls game redone with new translations. I'll do my best til then to provide lore insight into info that's been lost due to translation.
Why is this vid so quiet
Frampt was around before the 2nd linking of the first flame (Dark Souls 1) whereas Ludleth was from a kingdom long after DS1 & DS2. The timelines don't add up. All we know from DS1 and Kaathe is that when the flame began to flame, there was a brief Dark Age, but then Gwyn linked the flame. The undead we play in DS1 is the first to link the flame after Gwyn. Since Ludleth linked the flame in his time, there is no way he gave birth to Frampt.
along with this, pygmies bear an ape-like face fitting for ancient humans, ludleth does not, just because he uses the same terminology as the pygmies, doesnt mean that he literally is one, and in the context of his dialogue, he is talking about him being literally a "small man" when compared to his honour, not a pygmy, and serpents are said to be imperfect dragons, so the world serpents are their own lineage
and no, there never was an age of dark, kaathe only talks about what SHOULD have happened in his jpn dialogue:
“So, I will tell you the truth openly. Once, at the beginning of fire, the ancestor of you humans found a fourth soul after the old Kings. The Dark Soul. The ancestor of you humans acquired the Dark Soul and waited for after fire. Eventually fire goes out and only dark remains. In that case, it would be an age of you humans, of Dark.” - Kaathe
I got this translation from lokey lore, recommend you check out his website, his stuff is way more consistent, coherent, backed up by ingame data that MAKES SENSE, and his jpn translations
@TheDean1020
I get where you're coming from, but we know the Ringed City existed from before DS1. And there's zero proof indicating what time period Ludleth is from. I'm taking the stance and theory that Ludleth is one of the pygmy royalty, since he refers to himeself as a pygmy in Japanese.
@ONobreBabuino
Could you point me to where it states pygmies bear an ape-like face? I don't recall this being written anywhere.
And I would have to say no to you assertion that Ludleth is referring to himself as a small man.
He's using the term 小人, which is a very specific term that Miyazaki uses to call pygmies. If Ludleth was talking about himself as a small man, a different word would've been used in Japanese.
Btw, regarding this last statement you made,
"I got this translation from lokey lore, recommend you check out his website, his stuff is way more consistent, coherent, backed up by ingame data that MAKES SENSE, and his jpn translations"
what's up with the hostility?
@@ChannelYoshimitsu you can see them in their model, like, their face is literally ape-like, the faces of the pygmy kings, ringed knights, the red-clothed pygmies and so on
if i appeared hostile towards you, mb, but its cuz some of the stuff you say really, REALLY dont make sense, like for example, the Far East being composed of many lands like Mirrah, Forossa and so on
the game specifies that those lands are to *Drangleic's* east, they aren't *the* katana-producing far east of the world of man, along with this, these countries are in the east of the world of man's *far north*, something specified by the fourth fire keeper when talking of Drangleic's location in the cinematic intro
another thing that really ticks me off is that volgen is somehow the profaned capital even though we have items that prove that the capital was somewhere around the eastern far north of the world of man there, like the onislayer bow and greatarrows from the far east, those being used by alonne knights, the greatshield of glory from the eastern dragon shrine, the clergy of the profaned capital also inheriting the same hat-style as drangleic clergy, the storm ruler being modeled after a real life eastern blade, with the capitals presence being in the far north proven by its coins, coins only seen in ds2s setting. all of this proves that the capital has had relations with the far east in some way, and since alonne, a knight from the east, managed to arrive to the country of alken, the land that stood before drangleic in the region of iron keep, brume tower, earthen peak and huntsmans copse, then it isnt far fetched to claim these relations
you have the access to the right stuff, the JPN material, but you dont look at the right places, that is the problem
btw, the gods enslaved the giants, and those include the giants adjudicators as well. if lloyd was a giant, then you are telling me that gwyn enslaved his own uncle??
@@ChannelYoshimitsu ludleth himself says stuff that only someone from courland would know, like moulding kilns being taboo, his throne says that he is an exile, and from what nation would that be from except courland?? along with this, there is the context of his phrase where he uses the terminology used to refer to the pygmies, we cant just say that he is an outright pygmy without first analysing what he is even talking about with use of this term in the first place. Here is his jpn dialogue translated to EN:
"Say, do you know the meaning of the mission? Five Kings to five thrones. It is preparation for the firelinking. For linking the fire, increasingly darkening and just about to go out, and binding the world once more. For reenacting the oldest firelinking… For that, I became a King of Kindling. This tiny man received a King’s honor."
he is talking about the immense honor of being a king of kindling, or lord of cinder in EN, thats it, he isnt a pygmy for he is from a nation that fell in the times of ds3 and doesnt share the physical traits of pygmy, ancient humans
Wouldn't this imply that frampt turned into a pigmy? Wouldn't that be a little strange. ha ha.
Superr, exegis of dark souls
woah I didn't know you had a youtube channel, I love you in tekken
When I'm not fighting in the Tekken tournament, I make lore videos.
woah what a cool video. but i have a little question as im still learning this lore. does DS3 take place before or after DS1?
You've convinced me.
wow ... accually revelatory ds theory in 2022
Hey Yoshimitsu, how much Japanese lore have references to Kings Field? I would love to know anything you know!
I'm not too sure. I don't have the Kingsfield games so I really haven't done much research on them.
@@ChannelYoshimitsu it's a shame because of how much seems to be a continuation or rehash of old lore from Kings Field. Its very fascinating and I really think it would reward you with a 5 star video of you tackled the subject, no one else has tried it. I've been on this for half a year trying to prove more universe interconnectivity. It seems like it's under the radar for a lot of people, which is sad because I feel the story needs to be told. You're one of my favorite UA-camrs. I hope you make that video.
I definitely could see the universe connectivity between the souls game and Kingsfield. I have a ongoing theory I'm researching that connects the universes of Darksouls, Bloodborne, Sekiro and possibly Elden Ring. Although I do feel like I'm missing key pieces.
I'll see if I can get my hands on the Kingsfield games from Japan and check them out.
@@ChannelYoshimitsu Link's between King's Field and Dark Souls are likely just nods to that series. Seath being present in both but playing a fairly different role for example. However it may have had enough influence on some lore elements to provide some insights. You are probably far more likely to find anything relevant in King's Field than the Shadow Tower games or Eternal Ring for example but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if there wasn't something to gleam from them either.
I’m dying for a scrap of connection between the Serpents and anything in Elden Ring 😔
They're completely unrelated universes.
On Angels:
Seraphim ( Spirits of *Love* )
Cherubim ( Spirits of *Harmony* )
Thrones ( Spirits of *Will* )
I think Serpents (incl. Moonlight and Pilgrim Butterflies) are Seraphim (consider Gwyndolin's unconditional love for Gwyn; perhaps his serpentine form is similar to how the Crow Demons were warped by delusion),
Milfanito are Cherubim (their song represents cosmic harmony, like the Harp in Nameless Song),
and Lords are Thrones (their fulfilment of duty is an expression of Will).
Angel means messenger, as in a bearer of *the Word*
Seraphim are described as being serpents in early sources, so this is an interesting point.
@@user-if4nx2jn8r i believe "watchdragon parma" in DS2 is a reference to watcher angels (same w/ abyss watchers and the "watchkeeper" sanctuary guardian in oolacile).
There's also throne watcher and throne defender, which I believe to represent an angel and a dragon.
So is Ludleth and Frampt different characters or are they the same just appearing in different forms?
My take is that they're the same entity just taking two different forms.
Well, ###....
He was at my side, all along.
I've always preferred Frampt, for some reason. i never knew why.
I have a question:
Why do you think the Darksign was placed by the Nameless King and Gwyndolin? As in, the timeline? Does the Nameless King support his father?@@ChannelYoshimitsu
Great sstuff dude! If i could maybe make a request, how about allfather lloyd? i would really appreciate your insight on the item texts in wich hes mentioned... i mean is he really gwyns uncle?
Thanks man. I can make a lore video about Allfather lloyd. I'll add it to my list of future videos to make.
@@ChannelYoshimitsu yay :)
awesome 👍
Awesome!
Thanks friend.
Okay I'm 1:00 minute in I'm gonna need some serious explanation for this, but I'm curious and listening.
edit: in line with how the English version of DS tends to embellish the titles of characters do you think Darknurturer or Darkembracer kaathe would fit better?
I'm not sure how I feel about this theory yet, there something there it just feels a bit tangential. I will say I do believe the soul feeder being Kaathe is pretty likely as Yuria says something about Kaathe's dying will, as she is killed.
I personally think Darkembracer Kaathe would fit better.
How is possible that frampt was born from ludleth when ludleth’s linking accurred after gwyn’s?
My theory is that Ludleth was around from very early ages and is a direct descendant of the furtive pygmy.
4:10 *yawn* In the game.