ALL my Doosan CNC Lathes! | The Good, The Bad, & The MAINTENANCE
Вставка
- Опубліковано 22 тра 2024
- I’ve gotten a lot of questions about all our Doosan Lathes. Today I’ll recap how all the Doosan CNC Lathes have been performing in our shop!
✅ Tired of making 1 part at a time? 👉 piersonworkholding.com/pro-pa...
So over the years, I've put out lots of videos about all of our machines, but I still keep getting questions about our Doosan lathes. So in this video, I'm going to summarize each one of my experiences with my Doosan Lynx 220L, Doosan Lynx 220LSY, Doosan Puma MX2100 ST, & Doosan Puma 2600SY II over the years. I’ll Cover the good bad sag the maintenance issues that sometimes turned ugly.
---------------------------------------------------------
Follow Pierson Workholding!
🌎 Website 👉 piersonworkholding.com/
🟥 UA-cam 👉 / piersonworkholding
📸 Instagram 👉 / pierson_workholding
📘 Facebook 👉 / piersonworkholdingoffi...
🤝🏽 Linkedin 👉 / pierson-workholding
---------------------------------------------------------
*Videos We Recommend*
Fixture Friday Series:
THIS is the playlist to watch if you want to learn about designing fixtures.
• How We Got 24 Parts on...
00:00 Introduction to my Doosan CNC Lathes
00:30 Why did I get my first Doosan Lathe?
01:07 Doosan Lynx 220L
03:27 Doosan Lynx 220LSY
07:14 Doosan Puma MX2100 ST
09:45 Doosan Puma 2600SY II
13:40 Doosan Lathe Maintenance & Reliability
#Doosan #CNCLathes #DoosanLathes - Наука та технологія
✅ Tired of making 1 part at a time? 👉 piersonworkholding.com/pro-pallet-system/
Anything to help with assembly of the parts to assemble faster with less or minimal human intervention with custom parts
I gotta say, while there's a lot to be said for "printing money" and all that with a live tooling sub-spindle "Y-Axis Type" lathe: that assumes a fairly stable product line that's ready to roll. For someone starting out with a brand new product, starting new prints and such from scratch, the budget for even a basic live tool lathe is about equal to a solid little 2-axis lathe and a solid little vertical mill. And the versatility of the two machines is easy to grasp and really hard to beat unless you have a very well defined little mostly turned product like a pen or valve.
Sure, in time when your product is locked in and you know what kind of revenue your products can bring in, then you can figure out just how fancy of a multi-axis beast you can budget for once you figure out how much money you can reasonably print.
But yeah especially with all of the little issues that come with smaller live tool lathes, puts me off recommending one right away for most startups.
That said, there's so many parts that are just way easier to make when you have a sub-spindle so that aspect is definitely valuable even early on. But the extra shop time for adding a few holes or slots to a turned part on a mill is probably not a major bottleneck for a startup's cashflow. At least not one worth sinking so much capital into early on.
That's reasonable. That's why I relate it to printing money, not prototyping a few coins.
Good to hear solid honest reviews of the machines and what you like and don't like.
I really couldn't agree more with having the support network for a machine. At a previous employer I was running Nakamura Tome's which I would argue is a very competitive machine for what we produced and they were awesome when they were up. However when problems came around that required parts the lack of parts and technician availability in my area tended to cause several disruptions.
good video Mr.Pierson,,thanks for your time
That pucker factor on lathe with live tooling is no joke. I have a ST20ssy with the larger turret ( 24 tools) it does help out. The QG-65 Royal collet system is a must.
We have new Doosan lathes, 2020 and newer. I love the Lynx 2100 LSYB because it is super quick, makes great parts and holds tolerances. With the Puma 2600 SY-2. Great machine, very solid but the box way gives little clearance for sub spindle facing tools like drills. We have bent a few Sumocham drills on the Box Ways if the Y axis isn't homed out all the way before rotating the turret. So yes, the BMT-65 tooling gives you more room, the box ways make it pretty tight with sub side tooling on the Y axis.
Great video, thank you for the comparison. I am wondering how do you produce the parts out of the though material when using the bar feeder overnight. I believe the durability of the inserts / live tools would't be that long on though materials (?!)
7:29 as i learned recently, the spindle on the right is called a counter spindle if it has the same power as the main spindle :)
I wonder where you could've possibly learned that lmao
@@killorkubed from someone who always says Boom :P
Very nice video with great overview. I will buy several machines based on it, thanks!
But are you satisfied with the regidity of your SMX
So far our MX (now SMX) has demonstrated rock solid repeatability. Reliability... not so much.
Great Video!
Your shop is very clean and organized! There are a lot of shops out there that are grease pits.
thank you for the great information!
Nice Video Jay. Thank You so much for sharing Your thoughts and insights. I can’t get over how beautiful your floor is. Just curious. Is that Grey or White? How about an update on Your New Haas EC 400
It's the whitest color epoxy I could get for our application. Thanks for watching!
Well explained Sr 👏 👌
Much appreciated.
I like your Royal Collet Chuck.
Us too!
Yeah, I've told many people before that local support is probably the most important part of a machine purchase. I have made many machine tool parts for some local companies (there is some on my desk right that I need to revise engineer to make replacements) because they can't get them and they just don't have the time or skill set available to make them. Some of them are from some pretty large brands even. It probably would get there nicker in a knot if they new I was making parts for there very high end, very expensive machines on a lowly old haas because they can't delivery them ;)
Shame on them and their after sales service for lack of spares availability. I always wonder what kind of ppl they have running the after sales dept if they can't supply. After sales is critical, not an after thought.
How about the new Tornos MultiSwiss 8x26 😮 first thing comes to mind what kind of deal would you have to make with the devil to get one😅 I think Titan has one. Great video presentation info!
I really appreciate the applications centric reviews around a machines. The salesman can give me all the specs I need but understanding WHY you chose a specific machine makes a world of difference. I'm looking at a DS30-Y and a comparable Doosan for my specific application (full sub spindle is needed). I'm curious if you have stayed with mostly Doosan lathes out of familiarity and standardization or if the the larger Haas lathes could do what you needed.
Standardization is the main reason but Doosan Lathes have more advanced features that allow us to run lights out with greater confidence.
''This is just like printing money without a jail sentence'' :-) 🤣🤣👍👍👍👍😁😁😁😁👌👌 Awesome Jay 😁😁
Ellison is the best machine tool support team in the Midwest, not sure how they do in other regions.
They stock parts, they stock machines, and they have excellent technicians and support people who make a really big difference in the machining game. Other companies have more sophisticated machine tool offerings, but their support is horrific. Some big three letter words are often followed with four letter words in my department. We have probably 200 machine tools, and nearly every new purchase in the past five years or so has been a Doosan for that reason. We are finally pushing out two Puma 550's after about 30 years of service.
Great info in this video! We are currently looking at buying a Hyundai or Doosan lathe for our shop. We’re looking for a machine with a Y-axis, sub spindle, and a bar feeder. I’m curious your opinion on how big of a game changer it is to be able to have a full sized separate tool changer on your mx2100st. I know that machine is next level in terms of the build and price point. But having an actual tool changer and not having to consolidate to just a few milling tools, dealing with clearances, etc. seems like it might be a far better option as a one-size-fits-all mill/turn setup.
The MX is a beast in every way including the time it takes to setup and program it. It's also $400k+. If funds were unlimited and I was in startup mode, I'd still go with a Puma with BMT65 live tools and a separate VMC. (Just the flexibility of having a second mill is worth it to me.) Pocket the $100k saved and once out of room, THEN go with an MX to cut down on labor and floor space.
Hey Jay, you have some great machines running, ..... and nice to see you have the Trimos height gauge, an other must have. 👍
Btw. how do you keep tolerances lights out, can you measure within the machine with a probe or outside with a measuring device like e.g. laser and send the wear back to the control to adjust the tolerances ?
We don't run tight tolerance parts (
Thanks for the video Jay. Question on live tooling. Is the live tooling capability the same for the Lynx and the Puma or is the Puma superior?
If I remember correctly, the Puma has a more powerful live tool motor, but what matters more is the brand of live tool blocks. Both machines came with Eppinger live tool blocks and required repairs under warranty within the first few months. I'd recommend Lyndex-Nikken or Bucci for lower operating temperature and reliability.
what happened to your haas lathe with the loud spindle?
Great video Jay. May I ask what the issues were that you had with the SMX?
Part catcher failure to deploy, coolant leaks, milling spindle dropping tools at tool change, crash sensor false triggering.
@@PiersonWorkholding that doesn't sound too fun, especially on such an expensive machine, but also not totally insurmountable issues I suppose.
As a high mix job shop owner, my advice to anyone contemplating the choice between a lynx or a puma, hands down go with the puma if you can fit it in your shop and wallet. I had purchased a lynx 220 and puma 2600 at the same time and the 2 machines sat side by side. My original thought was to push smaller parts to the lynx, but over time it was evident that the puma was far superior in many aspects. The vibration dampening alone of the larger mass and box ways allowed for odd parts that couldn't always be vetted out to run more smoothly and accurately than the lynx if feeds and speeds where a little off. The lynx was not very forgiving when it came to issues like chatter and flex in some of the parts we see. After a year, the spindle hour counter showed the obvious, and I traded it for another puma. It was an expensive lesson to learn, and if the 2 weren't side by side we would have never noticed. buy once cry once.
That's great feedback! Thanks for commenting.
What do you think of the romi brand turning center?..
Sorry, I'm not familiar with romi.
Thank you for this awesome video!
One question, why did you get rid off your haas lathe with bar feeder?
The Haas lathe was good but it lacked some of the sensors and features we needed to reliably run lights out.
@@PiersonWorkholding thanks for your answer! Can you give some more information about the lacked features? Background: we are thinking about buying a haas lathe with sub spindle and bar feeder in the next 1-2 years..
@@teekteekteekteek one example is tool load mo itoring, it's very basic on all Haas machines but you would need more dedicated solution for lights out machining
@@zyndapp800 thanks ;) just to stop the machine in case of tool breakage? You can define max spindle load for each tool at the mills. Isn t this possible for lathes?
@@teekteekteekteek yes, it works the same on lathes also. But it's only monitoring spindle load, not all moving axes. For example - Doosan (Fanuc controller) has mutch more dedicated system. You will put it to "record" mode and run your program thru from start to finish at full speed. During this, machine saves spindle and axis load values for all tools and all axis. Then you can adjjust it and usually add 3-5% allowance for higher loads as tools may wear and so on. This solution is way better for lights out machining as you really wan't to avoid any kind of disaster during the time you're not at your machine. Titans of CNC has a great video about how this works on a Doosan machine. I highly recommend you to check it out. And don't get me wrong here - Haas is not a bad machine, it's just more simple in general. It all depends what exactly do you need.🙂
Hey, we just bought new Doosan Lynx 2100LM and guy from Doosan told me that its better to use left handed tools because you use M4 and you pushh the turret in to the machine insted pulling it when using right handed tools. He said that its better for turret life. What's your opinion on that? Thanks for this video!
I think that would be true if the turret pops out during tool changes (like Haas), but not of the Doosans we own.
Hi Jay,
You mentioned the doosans holding good tolerances. What sort of tolerance are the two lynx holding? Different on the puma?
Thank you!
All machines repeat within .0002" through the day once warmed up, but the Puma will change by .001" within the first hour and then hold .0002"., whereas the two Lynx's only grow .0002" - .0004" within the first hour.
That is actually really good!
I'm really much less lucky with my lynx LSYB. Mine shrinks 0.002" on main spindle and 0.003 on the sub during warm up, which is approximately 2 hours. Then is stable for two hours. And after that it grows indefinitely for the rest of the day 0.0005"/ hour on the main and 0.00075"/hour on the sub.
Very frustrating to keep tight tolerances with this machine, lights out is impossible.
@@maximeganhy5745Are the lynx machines box way or linear guides? I have 75 machine tools at work, and all of our doosans are box way with exception to our new dvm 5x.
@@Mike-lt6sj linear guide on all lynx I believe. Mine has linear guides.
@@maximeganhy5745 We have probably 15 pumas, they are very rigid boxway machines. I was just curious in case one comes up for consideration. Thanks!
How u do sales of your products ?
so nice！！！
Thanks for watching!
Do y’all use the Fanuc manual guide I or cam software??
We program in Fusion 360 and post code to the machines. The EZ Guide software is a nice interface though.
We use the Manual Guide i quite a bit. For most turning operations it’s so fast and easy that CAM honestly seems cumbersome by comparison. For milled features we post out of CAM and paste it in.
the 220lsy is a great machine great with a barfeeder
Yes, it's definitely a bread and butter machine that simply produces great results.
Ellison has screwed me over too many times, I couldn't trust them to get the support I needed in a promptly manner.
Please tell that last part to my employer!!!
Cost of ownership & cost of maintenance 🥲
Where are the bar fed mills
Here I sit with a Puma GT2600LM. Live tooling with no Y-axis. Milling is very accurate, but poor rigidity and surface finish. For drilling and doing simple stuff it's ok but complex milling is a nightmare. But, as a turning machine, it's golden. Everything is rigid, powerful. The tailstock spot on for 5 years. High speed, low speed, power everywhere. Very quiet. Chuck rigidity forgiving for bad setups. It just has that little extra milling for hexagons and whatever, with C axis. Not sure why it even exists without Y axis
I’m a tool rep, see and tested on many of these Lynx and Puma lathes. Most are sub spindle Y axis machines. Overall they are pretty good machines. Actually just had a customer buy a Puma sub spindle/y axis machine as their first cnc machine. Nothing like jumping into the deep end before you learn how to swim lol
These are no Mori’s or high end Okuma but most all Doosans mills and lathes are solid machines. If you want a Doosan with true milling buy a MX or SMX.
I think you're experiencing what all live tool lathe owners have discovered: Live tools are no comparison for a mill setup. Keeping cuts small and simple is what they're best at.
Would you consider buying a Haas lathe? What are your thoughts on those lathes?
I've owned a Haas lathe and it was a great piece of equipment - user friendly, very accurate, and a great value for the price. However, I choose to standardize with Doosan because they have several extra features that allow us to run lights out with greater confidence.
can you give me sample sub spindle program ?
Never trust g-code from the internet.
boiler/machinery insurance!!!! if a peice of capital equipment goes down you have options. Look it up?
Well aware but those claims are not worth it in the long run. I'd only consider for catastrophic events.
@@PiersonWorkholding Thanks for the clarification.
Genial! I like this I'm a younger engineer but I'm very interested in learn more about cnc machine, I have knowledge of Solidworks and mastercam would you giveme a opportunity to work for you without money I Just wanna practice whit cnc machine I'm from Mexico I have passport and I know English a 50 %
We're honored you'd like to work for us, but we're not a training shop, even for free. I primarily seek out rock star employees that have good character, a hunger to learn and lots of experience to lean on (in that order).
Making replacement parts yourself is considered normal, if you only have CNC iron 30+ years old ;-D
That's a good point! Now that I think of it, I've heard stories of others making parts for old machines. The machine I mentioned was only 2 years old :(
loool is this your garden shed we are on 36 axis and a part every 10 secs loool your talking about machines that are in peoples at home work shops loool boom boom boom lets go
Ok tough guy. You're the man.
Usually a machine that starts with problems, has a short lifespan.
I have a Puma and Lynx,
and I am very afraid to buy a complex machine made by Doosen.
To look at it differently, we only buy refurbished computers because the problems have already been identified and fixed. Some other customer does a second layer of QA on our computers that we buy at a discount. Win!
Or you could just go with a tornos or citizen swiss machine..
You need a CMZ lathe you’ll never buy Doosan again prepared to bet 1000 dollars on that fact
I'm a cnc mazak integrex machinist,,Good luck with your fantasy and dreams with your idea to eliminate OPERATORS.😂😂😂😂
How come?
@@mikeygoertzy4524Ignore him. We have a programmer/setup guy for all 4 lathes and no operators. Dreams come true.