HAAS ST-30Y UPDATE: Is this CNC Lathe WORTH IT? | Pierson Workholding
Вставка
- Опубліковано 18 чер 2024
- We'll be reviewing my HAAS ST30Y and seeing if this CNC lathe was actually WORTH IT!
✅ Tired of making 1 part at a time? 👉 piersonworkholding.com/pro-pa...
The HAAS ST30Y has an auto door and so much more! We'll be showing you some CNC cutting footage, how to set up the HAAS ST30Y, show you the servo bar feeder, and answer the big question: does it hold tolerances?
Follow Pierson Workholding!
Website 👉 piersonworkholding.com/
UA-cam 👉 / piersonworkholding
Instagram 👉 / pierson_workholding
---------------------------------------------------------
*Videos We Recommend*
Fixture Friday Series:
THIS is the playlist to watch if you want to learn about designing fixtures.
• How We Got 24 Parts on...
The Move Series:
How we moved into our new shop!
• Getting Things Ready -...
00:00 - Intro
00:30 - HASS ST-30Y Overview
02:52 - How we tooled up the ST-30Y Lathe
07:13 - Servo Bar Feeder
12:50 - Making Some Chips
13:44 - Additional thoughts
17:45 - Does it hold tolerances?
22:25 - Final Verdict
23:19 - Outro
#HASSST30Y #CNC #PiersonWorkholding - Наука та технологія
✅ Tired of making 1 part at a time? 👉 piersonworkholding.com/pro-pallet-system/
I work at a major manufacturing co. In the defense industry. In our machine shop we have about fifty CNC machines. (Matsura, Nakamura Toma, Mazak, Makino and Hass) . I would rather maintain and repair any of the Hass machines than any other make. Hass has made working on their machines easy there are UA-cam videos to guide you, parts are inexpensive and fast to deliver. They may not always hold the two tenths that a Hardinge Super regularly holds, but for most of our parts the Hass machines give us the most bang for the buck.
That's great insight. Thank you for the fair and objective comment. UA-cam needs more of these comments.
Do you guys have many hardinge machines?
My experience in the UK has been horrendous and sold a 1.5 year old machine to buy a 9 year old machine for some reliability but more
Importantly some decent service. 1 month to change a spindle and over a week to get engineer on a breakdown.
Great video and great to hear about the machine. I just bought on of these a few weeks ago! Minus the bar feeder and sub spindle. It's being delivered in a couple weeks and I'm stoked!
This is a great piece for Jay to inform us on! thank you for coming out with some more helpful info. To preface: Haas machine turning centers have a very niche place within the market. They do have significant limitations within the turning machine tool market capabilities. Pros: easy to use, affordable, serviceable, and made in the good ole USA. I'm not here to slander but I believe the common consensus is that owners seem to "grow out of them". They do have there place within the market but I would like Haas to continue expanding there capabilities to stay competitive down the line. Super interested to hear jays experience with this machine tool.
Have a ST20Yss and we've used the tool setter to check broken tools in production jobs. Worked well, especially on jobs over 1K in parts.
Also i bould like to add that your English is super good i like it it's very clear and professional!
Thanks for your video because anything like this will help to everyone
Love the bar feeder lol. Would have been a dream in my machining days. Had to make our own spindle liners and using dog switches or whatever they are called and if a bar was cut different you had to worry about the end, especially with the sheered end. having it slide out of hte way made me drool. Love it:)
great video mate and very well explained love the shop your guys are lucky to have that machine shop
Really great walkthrough.
16:02 This is so true, going from running a Hurco to a Brother was very interesting transition, especially in the programming department.
Also, for critical surface finish parts, get your little CR10 to grab it out and stack it very safe.
Great Video Jay.
Hi Jay! could you do a video about tooling storage for your lathes? Like where you keep chucks, toolblocks, Collets, Tools, etc. I saw you had a Storloc or Lista cabinet there and it would be nice to see how you lay things out.
Yes. A video with that exact cabinet is in the works.
Consider a low cfm mist collector mainly to create a negative pressure in the lathe. You do not need to a lot.
Consider this. If your pumping coolant in and creating heat there is expansion that has to go somewhere.
It’s harder to notice in a big shop, but in my tiny shop running door closed bar work all day it is obvious that there is still mist leaving the machine, builds up on stuff. Bad for the lungs. having a small low cfm one at minimum makes sense.
Thanks for all the vids, more fixture Friday plz!!!!
I was surprised with the manual height adjustment on the bar feeder. On the lns I used you tell it the diameter of the stock and it automatically adjusts the height.
thanks for this video. i am thinking of buying a cnc lathes with autofeeder and parts removal from borui br200l and ive never done any cnc machining before so this video is helpful haha
Glad I could help
I like the haas that we have. We are kind of using it the wrong way, but its good enough. It does struggle when I have to hold +-.0015 mm or something like that.
I love that bar feeder.
Our ISCAR rep just visited us with turn tools similar to those kyocera ones, coolant flows direct from the clamp onto the tip of the tool. We would've bought them, but they only plumbed from the back and we couldn't figure out how to plumb them safely for our swiss machines. As for the machine, I just don't trust HAAS lathes much. I haven't touched one in a while, but the last one I ran was in Denver and in the winter, if someone opened the bay door near the lathe to get in/out, the next few parts were scrap. It was an older lathe, probably early 2000's, but still =\ Very affordable though.
Great content
Considering you had a recent history with Doosan I’m amazed you went for this machine over a Doosan Puma, Haas must have offered you a very very good deal.
I agree with this
may be just an adv
We love our Doosan's but the 15-20% discounts offered several times a year by Haas was too good to pass up. Never pay full price for a Haas!
I definitely have to agree to the machine not last going from something like a haas to some medium range machines really opens your eyes as to what a machine can do. Now I’m not saying doosan is the best but in my opinion they are a bit better quality than haas.
Pierson maybe buy a Mazak lathe next time. They last till the end of time. I was holding a few tenths on my 1996 Mazak sqt18ms after the one hour warmup just like your haas except that was a 20 y/o machine
The haas st maybe be similar to the new lynx but no comparison for the doosan puma . ..
Can you tell me where you got the coolant lines for the Kyrocera tool holders? Looks like a good clean install.
Any advice on your plumbing the od turn to the turret
on the old haas SL-lathes the spindle liner is a metal tube with O-rings .. where u have to put plastic bushings inside .. it rattles and make alot of noise .. and sometimes fall out.. The bar feeder wont move to the side like this .. and pulling out the spindle liner is like competing in the olympics.. And you risk cutting your arms open from sharp metal edges . Sometimes the bar feeder get crazy if u get a chip on a magnetic sensor, .. the thin push rod end up looking like a snake sometimes,
Question - As a job shop that wants to have future lights out potential but still do small run orders with minimal labor required is there any reason I shouldn't consider this machine? Thanks
Thanks for the info. I like the mori Seiki much better.
for loudness try to pad the inner housing of the spindle with glass wool or rock wool . (is used in audio enclosure for damping purpose, in this case it works like a sound insulation)
and there is a paint that removes vibration from pannels (anti-noise) or there is also pads of bituminous like rubber that absorbe sound and vibrations ( you find in car audio application)
Good tips, but it's the job of Haas to make their machines more quiet, not their customers.
@@PiersonWorkholding congratulations for the videos especially those of the "fixture friday" series. Greetings from Italy
Is there a way to make the lathe door open automatically after it’s done with cycle ?
Our ST30-Y has a "Safe Tool Change" setting, I'm sure yours does also.
I use a DS30Y and compared to others lathes on i work, the thing i hate is the absence of a real C axis on the sub spindle.
Otherwise these machines are good for their price
Which subspindle chuck is that? Looks like a Royal pull back style which seems unusual for a subspindle. I like the additional clearance it offers but I am concerned the pullback vs accu-length will move the part dusting handoff.
Main spindle uses a Royal pull-to-a-stop (required for the bar feeder) and the sub spindle uses a Royal accu-length 5C.
To speed up the bar feeder setup, set your two push lengths and then run a G105 in MDI and you're done. There's no need to hand jog a bar to the face of the chuck every time. Maybe you just did it for the video but if not, there's a little time saver.
We got a DS30 about a year ago as well. I'll echo the accuracy comments, plenty good for what we need. We have had some reliability issues though. Our dealer has been on top of it but I really wish I didn't know the techs on a first name basis.
Great tip!
Nice but why haas dont protect some tiny slide guies of their machines.
Temperature variation isn’t looking like a big challenge for part measurement with probe sensor (boring holes, H9 tolerance. About 0,04mm average). But it might be a chips inside a machine when probe inside too... 🤔 btw, is that normal to store a probe inside the lathe all the time?
Yes that's how it is
Hi, Happy new owner of ST30Y, with haas barfeeder, now bumped into problem, how to push finished part out of subspindel jaws? Spring loaded pushrod pushmotion is not long enugh.
Search "gas spring" on McMaster. Plenty of lengths along with consistent ejection speed.
One thing I’ve found with this machine is it’s not great with larger insert drills in stainless steel. It’s less rigid than our SL30 so it breaks inserts more often and complains a lot more while drilling
Wow great overview. Makes me want to become machinist. Are you hiring?
I've been trying to convince my bosses to get one of these but the owner wants to buy older machines that he paid "pennies on the dollar for" but takes enough money to get them running properly he could be getting a good machine straight from Haas or another manufacturer.
Annoyingly had tons of issues with my HAAS Cl-1. It's really put me off HAAS. Our HFO is slow to respond too. Took 5 months to get our live axis replaced, second time too! And the worse fault of them all was the spindle height to tooling was off by 1.5mm out of the factory! Thinking of a Doosan for a second machine
CL1 is as bad as a Tormach. Should have bought a real Haas.
@@CNC_Soup completely fair comment! The joke is I could of bought an ST-15 for not far off the same money. Trouble is only have single phase at the moment. Moving in 4 weeks though. Still doesn't stand well for HAAS build quality
@@HudsonLighting Ahh, power problems, I get it. Haas intentionally cuts corners on the cheaper machines to make them affordable. Look for a recent video of them discussing the new TM mills.
In the unboxing video I thought you said you were going with the qg-65 on the sub spindle. In this video it looks like maybe a16c collet(?) Could you not reach centerline with the qg65 on the sub? Also if you have time could you please tell me the distance from the face of the turret when home in z to the main spindle face (using a fixture and long boring bar). My Haas hfo acts like they don't understand my question.
We evaluated the standardized set of parts we run on this machine and realized we didn't need the QG65. A dead length 5C chuck worked just fine. The 5C collet also provides more clearance in case we ever needed to get closer. The Z distance is close to 30 inches.
Does the subspindle capable of controlled motion lika a 2nd C axis? or at least rigid tapping ?
On the subspindle, rigid tapping and spindle orientation are possible, but not fully interpolated like the main spindle.
Nice machine.. what made you pass on the 24 position half-indexing turret? :)
I don't think it was an option at the time but with a Y axis, you can still use dual station tooling blocks as if you had a 24 position turret.
Extended warranty?
If i understand properly - Titan has traited Haas for Doosan, so Jay picked up a torch and continues to carry it. These are great machines by the way
If you understand correctly Titan also traded California for Texas. Titan has traded some of his stated principles for what is good for his bottom line and his future as an industry promoter . Doosan makes a good machine and in some ways can be said to be better but not in all ways. Importantly Doosan did not have the large youtube presence that Haas already had with their much more knowledgeable experts and so Doosan became a greener pasture for Titan and his ambitions.
LOL, I think Haas learned their lesson with Titan's "opinion". I'd like to try some other brands but the Haas control is hard to beat. - JP
Hi Jay, I have been kinda looking at them Just curious if You are keeping this machine or replacing it at a later date?
He sold it.
So why did you go with stick tools over a Capto style system? I've heard so many good things about using that system from a setup standpoint, no need to remeasure etc. I thought that would have resonated with you since you don't probe on your mills.
Indeed would love to get Jay's thoughts and opinions about quick change tooling systems for lathe...
Capto is great but the lathe came with holders as part of their standard tooling package. We've set up this machine to only need to change inserts based on the material so we're never changing sticks.
This week I went to a demo day at a haas dealer. They had a st30y demoing some parts. There were a few aspects of the machine I was very unimpressed with. The belt driven spindle was very noisy. I find it very odd that all the linear rails are exposed and on this machine they were covered in little chips. Surely that can’t be good for long life? The wipers on the way covers were just bits of bent thin brass sheet rubbing on the way. The sheet metal above the turret didn’t fit up that well and had gaps where it shouldn’t have. The tool eye cover was just a bit of bent sheet metal and wasn’t nicely sealed. The stylus has chips dangling off it under this cover. We have 4 90’s model mazak lathes which still run fine and hold tolerances perfectly. I just don’t see how that lathe could go the distance. Their mills vf5 and umc750 were both nice looking units but the lathe wasn’t much chop.
Looked at a way covers on a DMG Mori lately? We have 2 NLX and 2 NTX. The NLX has exposed box ways with brass wipers on the X/Y axes. The NTX has rubber wipers on the Y column which allow collected chips to rip them apart. That's a $1 million machine. If you get the lower turret option, it has a floating cover over it that gets bent out of shape by chips that get caught in the small, hard to reach channel behind it. This means you get to play the "will the tool clear today?" game when setting up backwards facing boring bars for the second spindle.
@@kchigley5309 unfortunately I’m not in a position to purchase new. I just went for a visit with a mate who has a few haas mills. With my experience with mazaks performance and control I’d be hard pressed ever getting any other lathe other than a mazak. I’d be much more open for mills tho.
Is it negative tool holder with positive cutting insert ? (With 4 cutting edge ?)
Yes, negative holder, positive insert. Works like a charm!
how are you brother price in CNC lathe machine
@20:26 the concept could be phrased as "linear interpolation"
As odd as that term sounds, you're right!
I had no idea the Haas had thermal compensation. Is that a paid feature? I would love to try it.
It's a standard feature but probably only in newer machines with software after 2020ish.
We started with an ST30, which we still use for lower tolerance work. Our New NLX2500SY700 runs 24/7 minus a once a day insert flip and greasing of the sub chuck. We run one shift, so the machine runs until we come in the next day. Very thermally stable machine, and it's really eye opening the difference in machine class between the haas and the Mori
We considered DMG but the service in our area is absolutely terrible. The ST30 holds sub .001" so we're satisfied with not needing a higher priced machine.
@@PiersonWorkholding we are in Chicagoland so we have the US headquarters right here, along with every other machine tool company it seems!
Question: I've been following your channel learning quite a bit about lean principals and manufacturing. Why are you running a years worth of inventory in one month? That seems very not lean. Just curious about your reasoning.
Great question! The lean waste of over-production is the most serious waste and has many trickle-down effects. Some dangers of over-production are tying up machines for long periods, making too many parts with potential uncaught defects and needing extra space to store inventory. In the case of all the parts we make on this machine, production cannot run into the next job, inspection needs to be doubled and parts need to be small so they don't take up too much floor space to store.
How does this machine cut , I only ask because I bought a ST30 and to be blunt it was a bag of shit , I could not wait to get rid of it , I replaced it with a Doosan GT2600 this machine cuts brilliantly. I am not just slagging off Haas as I have a had a SL10 for 17 years and this cuts fine and does a good job , maybe Haas can only make small lathes
Haas seems hit or miss. I ran both a SL 30 and a TL3W which both had awful tailstocks, a ST30 which was a good machine. The bar feeders both slantbeds sucked. Both bar feeders would feed past where it was supposed at strange times. We’re very untrustworthy. The noisy Haas spindles are really annoying
Random question, but what cabinets are those, next to the ST-30Y?
Lista brand. The best IMO.
What type of coolant lines are you using
We used the ones that came with the tooling blocks but found many to be inadequate. McMaster-Carr has a nice selection of ball end nozzles we ended up using. Search 2851K16.
Haas has gotten that barfeeder dailed in man. I have very little experience with barfeeder but My experience is its really clunky
We once had a bar that was same diameter as the pushrod of the feeder and when the last Piece of the bar got pushed out it started Turning away the pushrod😂 gotta love the haas
1:03 is the perfect description of the Haas buyer/user.
Also, when comparing price, cost of ownership is going to be a lot less on the Doosan. I would say do a 10 year analysis but, not sure if that Haas can make it that long in a true production environment.
I don't even know how to use a CNC and I watch these videos.
Im interested in the comparison. I’m not a big fan of haas as they are generally pretty wimpy machines (I had some really bad experiences with several vf2ss machines) but I’ve also had problems with a doosan dnm mill. I do feel like he is a bit biased towards haas though.
I’d think the doosan equivalent would be more machine and typically doosan is cheaper aswell but you have to live with the fanuc control
I keep dreaming of a new machine I may eventually get one
I am guessing you don't know ??
But you can buy the Doosan with a Siemens Controller.
The New Doosan's with the Fanuc Controller is actually not to bad.
They come with Guidei which is great for your more simple machining ops.
But no where as good as the Siemens.
I like Hass control but fanuc control has more complicated switch buttons with lights that the Hass machines don
Can't you make a warm up program for the machine? Say first thing in the morning when everyone is getting coffee and BSing the lathe can be running that program.
It’s to easy to warmup a mill (13k rpm max) in about 15 minutes and I’m ready to run. The same for lathe, by idea. But the question is... how lathe warmup? Just moving X,Z or what?
We warm up all our machines every morning but the lathe warms up significantly when the motors are under load. It's best to just start cutting parts.
Haas already have a 'warmup' program stored in it's memory. If our Haas mill and lathe haven't run for a day or so it prompts you to run the program before full production.
@@burville100 I just purchased a VF4 SS and it does not prompt me to run the spindle warm up program. I have to do that by myself.
@@Thepriest39 Both our Haas VF3 mill and ST15 lathe come up with ''Your machine is cold run warm up program'' This pops up when they have not run for a couple of days or so.. Have you checked whether the warm up program is stored in the memory? I assumed this was standard in all Haas machines. Try looking up this link...
www.haascnc.com/service/troubleshooting-and-how-to/reference-documents/mill---spindle---programs--run-in--warm-up--break-in-.html
And what’s about DMG MORI lathes? Most of peoples using Doosan, Mazak in Europe and HAAS in USA. Guys, who have experience with this and... what’s more interesting... how it’s going on in “lights out” mode? Jay, any comparison or information at this point?
DMG Mori, Doosan, Mazak... all great brands and arguably in a different category than Haas. The longest lights out production we've completed is 5,000 parts over 190 hours straight. The biggest factor is setting maximum tool life in the control so inserts are changed regularly. - JP
@@PiersonWorkholding correct. We set tool life, load monitoring values, and the Mori does the rest. Nice work.
Let me know if you want some insight on DMG MORI. We have for about a year now an NLX2500SY700, and an NHX6300 Gen II
@@dcarino0405 wow, and thanks a lot! First of all, is tool load monitoring an option or not? Second question is are you using part measurement inside the NLX with tool probe. And last one is what turret type I need to choose if I want to use Capto tool holders (VDI, Trifix or standard type). Sorry if my questions are some incorrect but I’m coming into lathes world from mills one...
@@mikhaildavydenko6841 regular load monitoring in the NLX is standard I believe. The NHX I did pay for the Machine protection control, and machine vibration control. Those two use additional sensors for vibration and acceleration to stop the machine with an insert break.
We only have the tool probe for main and sub I think it's a marposs unit. We didn't feel a work probe was necessary given the tight tolerance parts are low quantity and would run during the day. The parts we run overnight need to be within .001" and the machine holds that all night.
For your turret they offer 12,16,20 iirc. We chose the standard 12 just because it gives us some room. The standard turret uses a bolt on style live tool. We have all capto C4. with our current setup we have 19 capto pockets. Feel free to reach out to my work email dcalabrese@bluco.com
i think haas are excellent machines
excellent machines for California
and they should stay in california
Wish my Doosan had a food tray holder 😒
LOL, there's nothing like coolant sauce with your fries.
Best cnc lathe I’ve operated was a DMG Mori NLX 3000-700
I have said it for years Haas is the small block Chevy of the machine world. Not amazing at anything but good for getting the job done over and over again for a low cost.
Well said.
Why in the world would you run a years worth of parts at a time? It must be a whopper of a setup to justify that.
Good question. Jay is obviously pretty sharp so I'm sure he has his reasons
He said each part used 0.7" of the bar and if its still out of that 1" bar his material cost is probably 5-10 cents a part, and the surface quality was important. So he's probably sending it for finishing. A lot of finishers have minimum batch charges so that may be a driving factor.
I have heard haas are very cheaply made. Would you agree with this? Like comparing it to a doosan
No, they're very well built machines but lack some of the features of the Doosans. Most Haas critics never had to write a check for a machine.
UK based, 20+ yrs experience. I'm now working on a 'new' HAAS ST30Y .. don't know if we just got a dud machine, but man what a disappointment! Seems Haas is winning the Internet marketing game though, and their salesman in this area is way better than their tech guys (some are clue-less on lathes). Main spindle sounds horrible, slight 'shake/vibration' at half max revs, I have never taken it close to max - 3400 - cos it just sounds horrible - what's the opposite of silky smooth, C-axis motor sounds worse and got a thump thump as it rotates which you can clearly feel if you put your hand on it, the tailstock is just about useless - tailstock on our manual Colchester is way more rigid, live tools can hardly manage a 16mm HSS drill in steel. And my boss is a young, 'nice guy' so no one particularly bothered to fix the sh# Update: The thump on the C-axis motor has been fixed - apparently some bolts that weren't tightened .. but I've convinced my boss - last Haas he is going to buy. Okuma next.
A. We sold our ST30Y after 18 months. Catch the story here: ua-cam.com/video/cs8a4tV798o/v-deo.htmlsi=LvaZ0djctepMF2B3
B. Other content creators sell their opinions to the highest bidders. I will always give independent opinions based on my experience over time.
Doubt it, better off staying with Doosan.
I’ve ran Haas into the ground and I’ll tell you why….the sales guy rocks up promised the world..told us the Haas lathes could do the same work as the okuma and Mazaks we had for 2/3 of the purchase..price so we took the plunge and purchased 1…..absolute disaster…Couldn’t match the feeds and speeds of the okuma/ mazaks… machine would just alarm out…and stop….Haas ok if your turning Brass or Ally….useless for anything harder or difficult to machine so absolute waist of Money….Machine just stands idol all day now because we can’t put any work on it….And that’s without all the breakdowns we’ve had……And the Apps Engineer from Haas less said about that the better…..just buy a 2 year old quality machine rather then a Haas save you and make you much more money…And people I’ve spoken with have had exactly the same problems…so this is the rule not the exception…
Ha! You can't say you paid 2/3 the price and expect it to do the exact same work. You wouldn't complain about a Camry not going as fast as a Corvette would you?
@@CNC_Soup The sales guy and the Haas applications engineer words not mine say what you mean and mean what you say rule 1 day 1 of running any business
Salesmen ????
Always promising the world ??
I would hate to be a HAAS Salesmen, LOL.
Sorry dude. I have filing cabinets that are more rigid than Haas lathes. When you take a .15"DOC when trimming jaws and it throws out your tool setter, you start kicking yourself for not buying a mazak.
LOL.
There ok the cad is too complicated than it needs to be
You are incorrect, you can set safety zones on a Haas
We know about setting travel limits, but can you setup actual safety zones? For example, could you set it up so X can go to the spindle center line but not if the subspindle is in the way?
@@PiersonWorkholding setting 93 and 94 on CHC haas lathe. Called tail stock even for sub spindle machines. Setting number might be different on your NGC. Should be able to do what you want
Get an LNS bartender and you'll thank me later.
Barfeeder
Crash a Haas ,may as well just buy a new one.
We wouldn't know since we don't crash machines. XD We'll believe your experience though.
1 Thou is too much 👎