I have noticed that denominations with women pastors slide towards Unitarian-Universalism. They also become tolerant of induced abortion and homosexuality.
Thankyou for speaking up for Almighty God..the Truth as delivered to mankind. Man shall NOT live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD that proceeds from the MOUTH OF GOD...We need to hear more vindication of Gods Word in these last days...GOD bless all who remain firm.
Reminds me of the Anglican priest in CS Lewis’ work “The Great Divorce”. The priest that the narrator met on the bus who was so excited about his theory that Christ would have “matured” and changed his beliefs if he had grown older.
Pastor John: my seminary experiences were that the entire bible was just a man’s book not the word of God. We just recently had a dinner with two ordained pastors in the UMC and they were arguing that ‘all people go to heaven’. It was a UU concept that not only was there no hell, but there were many paths to heaven! Basically all religions could get you there if you were “good”. That conversion has left me troubled ever since then and honestly worried about their eternal souls 😢 I have often thought of them bragging to God about all of their degrees and accolades and Jesus sadly (maybe angrily I don’t know) saying DEPART FROM ME! FOR I NEVER KNEW YOU! The UMC and especially the pastors hold a higher responsibility and therefore accountability . THANK YOU SIR FOR YOUR WORDS OF WISDOM AND WARNING. Pastor Dr Terry
Such is the corresponding action coming to maturity for many, many, yrs. I ministered within an offshoot of the "Methodist church" in the early 90's. "Nazarene" to be specific. My experience there wasn't very whole-some. For the most part "Christianity" today has evolved into what I call a "mainstream contemporary institutionalized organization." At one time this was what established ecclesiastical bodies fought against, this also has gone out the door. It is no wonder that "Jesus" is pictured as knocking on the "Church" door trying to regain entrance into "His own Body."
There are a couple of Methodist churches in my area that have broken off form all association and become independent. Any fellowship of believers who stays with the national organization is in a false church at this point.
No lake of fire, woman preachers, questioning Bible authority; these are nails in the coffin of UMC. I urge all followers of this religion to fall on their faces before a just and Holy God, and repent of their pride that has separated them from salvation in Jesus Christ! Lean not on your own understanding but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God!
I was in the military for 3 decades and ALL the churches I attended never pressed the issue of eternal damnation. Sermons were always flowers and sunshine with cuddly feelings thrown in. I am never sure how many people sitting around actually believe in Hell.
I remember a sermon on temptation at one church. I was seriously struggling with going down the wrong path. His message was about not eating chocolate! I walked out disgusted. So many ministers just want people to feel good.
The wheels fell off, because local churches became so desperate for money that they couldn't "afford" to insult anyone on any topic. Solid members move on (with their money), leaving the weak and lazy members behind, who often don't have money. The cycle continues downward until irrelevancy.
Lutheran, Methodist, and Presbyterians are, I think for the most part, the ones Jesus speaks of in the book of Revelation as the ones he will spit out of his mouth. At least most of them. They are very liberal in their theology.
Thank you for your video. Romans 1:16-32 describes in perfect detail how the seminaries (so called) have ended up teaching a false gospel. What makes me cringe most of all is when the term "church" is applied to those sinners. To be part of the Church one must be a believer in Jesus. The concept that all religions lead to God is true in one sense only, it doesn't lead to heaven as they wish, but to the Great White Throne of Judgement and being cast into the Lake of Fire forever.
My hubby’s family is/was UMC pastors including hid dad. My MIL even said that my FIL was taught there was no hell. I don’t think she believes in hell either. She knows those that are t Christians don’t go to heaven but I’m not sure if she really believes that those that don’t are going to hell and exactly means.
@ There’s a global Methodist church in my area that has rainbow decorations everywhere and it’s not for Noah. Maybe they’re gone on their own. “Global” usually does not denote positive things.
They dropped the authority of God a long time ago. It started formally when they began to ordain women, but it really got its start back with Wesley. If you are a Christian, you have no business being a part of that mess.
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Rev. 22:18-19 Woe be to those who create their own religion. But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. Mt.23:13 & 15 God has reserved a special place in hell for these people.
"and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy" With careful attention to "book of THIS prophecy" and not any other part of the bible, which did not yet exist when these words were written.
I don’t have to preach the steps to hell to avoid. I have to preach the stairway to heaven. Yes, I left the United Methodist Church for their changing The United Methodist Book Of Discipline. However, in almost 30 years of being in the pulpit, I’ve never heard anyone say that everyone goes to heaven, or that the Bible is man’s word.
This is what happens when churches reject the Holy Spirit! John chapter 16 tells us the Holy Spirit convicts the unbelieving sinner, so they will see their need for Jesus to forgive their sins. The Holy Spirit convicts the believer of their righteousness as a believer in Christ, and the Holy Spirit proclaims judgment on the earth. Time is short and this is just wickedness. 2 Peter 2 predicts swift destruction.
I was never keen on Arminian theology or the idea of entire sanctification. The Methodist movement may have had wheels at one point in the past, but they always seemed a bit out of round.
A universal atonement can only lead to universalist soteriology. In the mid-80s I attended a UMC affiliated college, one of the best regionally per the magazines and rating agencies. Even back then, it was clear the UMC was off its doctrinal tracks. The religion department was all or mostly atheist or agnostic and gave zero credence to sacred Scripture. Imagin, an ostensibly Christian college teaching the Koran, the Bgavadgita, and Bible with the same level of credulity, but more to heathen religions than to the Christian religion. And this was sanctioned by the UMC and some graduates in that department went on to liberal/leftist divinity programs and now fill the pulpits of UMC and Episcopal churches. The UMC is awash in strange fire, along with the PCUSA and American Baptist churches.
" A universal atonement can only lead to universalist soteriology. " Only if one is consistent! ;-) The sad irony is, limited atonement does not automatically mean election. All that is required is God's foreknowledge, with which even the most ardent Arminians agree.
The bible is VERY clear that Jesus died for ALL. Just because the atonement was for every person, doesnt mean that it leads to universalism. The sacrifices of the temple were for ALL Israel but not all Jews were saved. Also believing in limited atonement cam also lead to universalism like within the PCUSA. They were calvinists. Among the "deconstruction movement" a movement where people are leaving Christianity and becoming atheist. 3 out 4 of came from a church that teaches limited atonement. If you believe limited atonement, you must accept that fact that God hates 99% of humanity. You must accept the fact that God "needs" to damn people in order to get glory. I'd say that is every bit as evil as universalism
In a Bible study with some Methodist friends, they told me that the Bible WAS NOT the word of God, it's merely written by humans with no more authority than any of us. I asked where was their authority and they told me that if the statements were uttered by Jesus Himself then you believed them. If Jesus didn't say it in His own words then it was to be disregarded. They've condensed the entire Bible down to the actual words said by Jesus. So my conclusion of what my Methodist friends told me, get a red letter edition and there you go, it's really all you need.
"If Jesus didn't say it in His own words then it was to be disregarded." Unfortunately, nothing Jesus said was written contemporaneously, by a scribe that followed him around carefully transcribing everything. It is ALL the words of men; but of course, inspired men of God (generally speaking).
If you are confessing the scriptural components of the Creed from your heart, then you are in Christ and eternal punishment is not in your future. If you are in Christ, then the Spirit is teaching you to live a moral life, to love others, and to perform works in concert with Jesus' model of service. If the audience was a group of non-believers, on the other hand, then of course one would give the choice as defined in John 3:16-18. Eternal life or destruction. There is a difference between evangelism and weekly pastoral teaching.
The methodist came to America in 1700 by Robert coke They were most spirit and firm Bible people They were greater than Baptist Some were like pentecostal and merged into the movement In 1945 they became united methodist and the decline has been ever since
No where in the Bible does it say there is a place called hell where unbelievers go where they are punished for ever or a person goes to heaven or hell when they die. In John 3:13 Jesus said no one has gone to heaven only He who came from heaven referring to Himself.
R A Torrey HELL IS TRUTH SEEN TO LATE, of all the subject Jesus spoke, talk, preach, was hell, Revelation is the book of judgment and hell, Unfortunately UMC no longer built their house on the rock of the scriptures but on sand an we all should know what happen to that house, and in this case the gates of hell did prevail, because they did not believe, have faith, trust, in the Lord of lords, King of kings,
The wheels never 'fall off'. There are wheels within wheels. What the church forgot is the idea that we are 'gods' - small G. In the times of Noah we were told that the FEAR AND DREAD would be of 'us' - mankind. God is the ONLY ONE to be feared. Scripture condemns the fear of anything else but God. Guess who we are? At this point, the Nephilim.
The lie(s) of Satan: God is evil God created man for the purpose of annihilation. Man does not have free will, and the only way man can tell if he does, is to violate God's law. God does not have a solution for sin. (So), God cannot/will not judge sin. Anywhere we see any of these individually, or in combination, we know that what is being held forth is from the Deceiver, not from God.
ALL &ANY DENOMINATION THAT DOES NOT HAVE THE ONLY SAVING ,PLAN-of- SALVATION,(acts2:38)…it was OBEYED by 1st 3000 TRUE CHRISTIANS says;acts2:41 !…those POOR-DECEIVED -people,have been,LIED TO ! & they’ll get the SAME-SAD-TRUTH that the group got, says the Bible,who God didn’t Let into Heaven !…they just THOUGHT they were CHRISTIANS !…believing-in-Jesus,accepting-Christ,praying “ oh god I love you( or Jesus)”,bla-bla-bla !DOES NOT MAKE YOU a CHRISTIAN !…and YOU ARE NOT SAVED or on your way to HEAVEN ! ! United Pentecostals have this,SAVING TRUTH ! !
I grew up in a mixed home. Mama and most of her side were Southern Methodists while Daddy and most of his family were Southern Baptists. One nearby Uncle and his family were Episcopalian. I remained in one or the other of those churches until in my 60s when o found the ancient Eastern Orthodox faith.
The person who went from Methodist to Catholic jumped from the frying pan into the fire, and cannot truthfully say he has “ a personal relationship with Jesus “. How very VERY sad.
@@carolcole570 Under Pope Francis the Roman Catholic Church does seem to be drifting. But even so I don’t think it compares to the UMC. In any case whether the ordinal commenter has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ or not isn’t something we can know, nor is it our place to judge
@ actually no. They aren’t. They (the R.C., U.M.C, and all Protestants churches) are considered heretics. The same as they have been for almost 1000 years. But that’s still irrelevant. Even with individual cult members and pagans, we don’t know what’s in their hearts nor is it our place to Judge. Jesus Christ alone has that knowledge and authority.
I am a former United Methodist, I was raised in the New Providence UMC, in Clarksville, Tennessee.I am now a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints,since 1980.Even if I were still a member of the UMC I would have to flee the wolves who have taken control of the entire system, which hire pastors who deny that Christ is the only means of salvation or that He is the Son of God who has risen from the dead, or was born of the virgin Mary.Not only this, but the UMC has now worshiped the vile golden calf of same sex so called ''marriage'' and its Bishops are appointing pastors who are living in total perversion.Poor John Wesley! He must weep at the utter depravity and nonsense being promoted! John Wesley preached holiness of both public and private conduct, warned the profane of judgment to come and most importantly, praised the mercy and salvation offered in Christ Jesus, conditional upon sincere repentance from those who wished to abandon their folly and rebellion against God.To display a pride flag, or to have a drag queen teach little children in the UMC, is to prop up the tar baby of sin and worship gross darkness.In our ward or congregation of over140 souls, almost half are former Protestants,and 7 of us are former United Methodist, with more joining the Lord's Restored church every year.Churchwide, we are 17.3 million members, the Lord adding to our growth by an average of 25,000 per year.We are one in doctrine, faith, and practice,led by living Apostles and prophets,as in the days of Peter and Paul, with Christ as the Head over all.I love and adore both the Holy Bible and Book of Mormon, each chapter points the man or women to Christ, warns the profane to repent, and gives the hope of salvation in Christ if we are willing to come to our senses and grasp the hand of mercy,offered to all who will come unto the Savior will full purpose of heart.
Dan is another person who has jumped from the frying pan into the fire. He cannot HAVE “ a personal relationship with Jesus Christ “ because he does not believe in the Bible. How utterly sad.
@@carolcole570 Of course I believe in the Holy Bible.I taught it as part of our Gospel Doctrine class, both the Old and New Testament.I also taught the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price.The scriptures exist to bring us to Christ and to salvation.I wanted my classes to be focused on the Savior and His sacrifice for us, and the grace offered, which none of us deserve.
@@carolcole570 I have many friends who belong to different faith traditions.Each of their churches believe the Holy Bible, but they are split into denominations that do not agree with each other, and the each read from the same Holy Bible.I believe that most of these souls have a real relationship with the Savior.
@ Ohhhhh Dan, The Mormons teach that Jesus is the brother of Lucifer. Nevertheless, as a Christian, I will not argue with a man whose spiritual eyes have not been opened. PLEASE……sincerely…..ask God to open your spiritual eyes……to give you His discernment…..His Understanding……and His knowledge. Now……goodbye.
we don't need to get mad at these blasphemies. for God it is who will get even. I am well aware of the fact of hell being used as a terrorist instrument by some preachers so full of hate that they use hell like this but abuse of anything NEVER detracted from the proper an rational use of this. But of course theological liberals - i don't know why they want to be in church when they reject what the church is supposed to stand for - could never grasp this. what to do about churches that have left the gospel of Christ like this? LEAVE THEM
The REAL bad part about religious views isn't that I might go to Hell forever. It is that I might go to Heaven forever and end up kneeling forever before God going nowhere. How boring is that? But since I don't believe in either destination, it doesn't matter. I personally believe that the stuff in Eccl. 9 is the truth - that when you die, you are done. There is no thought, no pain or pleasure, no interaction with the living, no NOTHING. It is through the fear of non-existence after death that religion gains some adherents. But we have already been non-existent for millennia before we were born. Didn't seem to hurt a bit.
The book of Ecclesiates is about the foolishnish of man's view of life without God. Included is Eccl. 9 as you mentioned in your post. This book was written in contrast to the Bible book of Proverbs which is about being wise about life realizing there is an after life and an accountability to God. One interesting detail about these two Bible books is they have the same human writer Soloman at different stages of his earthly life. There is another contrast in the Bible even more important. It's the difference between religion (human beings attempts to reach up to God in heaven & satisfy Him by doing good works & earning their way to heaven) and Biblical Christianity (God the Father sending His Son Jesus to the earth to die to pay for sin). Biblical Christianity teaches that a person has to realize he/she is a sinner, that there is a just God who demands a payment of death (separation) to be paid for sin. A person has the option to trust in Jesus as their Savior, as the one who died to pay for their sin, was buried and arose the third day or be sent to an eternal hell to pay for their own sin. I would encourage you to read the Bible book of the gospel of John (in the new testament) that is about the love of God for humans in spite of their sin. I am praying for you to give some serious thought to these facts and trust Christ as your spiritual Savior.
If you were to be correct about dying being nothingness, then I will be dead and not even know it. If the Word of God is correct (and it is) you will be dead and suffering for EVER. Terrible betting odds. Think about that.
I would have to kindly disagree! I am a former United Methodist, now a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.Christ is Lord and every knee will bow before Him, for He is worthy to be praised! The Savior has risen from the dead, is the Son of God and has purchased our salvation by His death for you and I. There is NO other path to peace or salvation.The Holy Bible and Book of Mormon have only one message, and it is very simple to understand: That we are utterly lost without the sacrifice of our Savior for you and I and that the offer of mercy is extended to all, CONDITIONAL on our sincere repentance from our rebellion and sin, and by grasping by the hand of faith his arm which is mighty to save all who shall call upon Him in their hour of need.
One of the reasons I left the UM church was because they questioned that the Bible was not the inspired, inerrant word of God
rightly so
Good for you!
This is sadly common.
Teaching like what you describe is part of why I left the UMC for another denomination.
Heresy is not looked kindly upon by God the Almighty. I don’t care what any seminary teacher says. I care what God says.
Not a church but a social club that does community service...
Yes, that's what I was trying to articulate. Very good, thanks!
I have noticed that denominations with women pastors slide towards Unitarian-Universalism. They also become tolerant of induced abortion and homosexuality.
Thankyou for speaking up for Almighty God..the Truth as delivered to mankind. Man shall NOT live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD that proceeds from the MOUTH OF GOD...We need to hear more vindication of Gods Word in these last days...GOD bless all who remain firm.
Not really surprising. UMC has been in decline for several decades.
I am a member in the UMC. One thing is obvious. Present UMC is anything but a church John Wesley dreamed of.
Assuming, of course, that the comments of some UMC ministers can be taken for what the UMC teaches! Quite an assumption.
Reminds me of the Anglican priest in CS Lewis’ work “The Great Divorce”. The priest that the narrator met on the bus who was so excited about his theory that Christ would have “matured” and changed his beliefs if he had grown older.
Pastor John: my seminary experiences were that the entire bible was just a man’s book not the word of God. We just recently had a dinner with two ordained pastors in the UMC and they were arguing that ‘all people go to heaven’. It was a UU concept that not only was there no hell, but there were many paths to heaven! Basically all religions could get you there if you were “good”. That conversion has left me troubled ever since then and honestly worried about their eternal souls 😢 I have often thought of them bragging to God about all of their degrees and accolades and Jesus sadly (maybe angrily I don’t know) saying DEPART FROM ME! FOR I NEVER KNEW YOU! The UMC and especially the pastors hold a higher responsibility and therefore accountability . THANK YOU SIR FOR YOUR WORDS OF WISDOM AND WARNING. Pastor Dr Terry
Apostasy at it finest!!! 😡
Such is the corresponding action coming to maturity for many, many, yrs. I ministered within an offshoot of the "Methodist church" in the early 90's. "Nazarene" to be specific. My experience there wasn't very whole-some. For the most part "Christianity" today has evolved into what I call a "mainstream contemporary institutionalized organization." At one time this was what established ecclesiastical bodies fought against, this also has gone out the door. It is no wonder that "Jesus" is pictured as knocking on the "Church" door trying to regain entrance into "His own Body."
The UMC has been apostate for quite some time now.
Was raised UMC but I left them 30 years ago cause I saw them heading down this road of apostasy.
UMC hasn't been Christ-centered for decades.
There are a couple of Methodist churches in my area that have broken off form all association and become independent.
Any fellowship of believers who stays with the national organization is in a false church at this point.
Glad to be Catholic
What does the Bible say about woman preaching ?
No lake of fire, woman preachers, questioning Bible authority; these are nails in the coffin of UMC. I urge all followers of this religion to fall on their faces before a just and Holy God, and repent of their pride that has separated them from salvation in Jesus Christ! Lean not on your own understanding but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God!
Amen brother 🙌 God bless you!!! 🙏💪💪🎉🎉
They have decided to go to war with God
So have Liberal politians.
They have been at war with God for many decades.
I can only surmise that hell is at the very root of all of this.
I was in the military for 3 decades and ALL the churches I attended never pressed the issue of eternal damnation. Sermons were always flowers and sunshine with cuddly feelings thrown in. I am never sure how many people sitting around actually believe in Hell.
I remember a sermon on temptation at one church. I was seriously struggling with going down the wrong path. His message was about not eating chocolate! I walked out disgusted. So many ministers just want people to feel good.
1 Tim 3:15...The Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth....
As the Bible says, they left their first love which was the Word of God. Jesus is the Word and they no longer know him.
The wheels fell off, because local churches became so desperate for money that they couldn't "afford" to insult anyone on any topic. Solid members move on (with their money), leaving the weak and lazy members behind, who often don't have money. The cycle continues downward until irrelevancy.
Lutheran, Methodist, and Presbyterians are, I think for the most part, the ones Jesus speaks of in the book of Revelation as the ones he will spit out of his mouth.
At least most of them. They are very liberal in their theology.
The ELCA synod is very woke and liberal, but the LCMS and WELS are traditional and conservative. They still believe that the Bible is God’s word.
@PMDasher good to hear.
@@PMDasherthe Missouri Synod rigidly to the teachings of the Bible.
Our church left the United Methodist Church organization. We now are an independent Methodist church believing in scripture.
Praise God. Praying you and your kind grow stronger!
Thank you for your video. Romans 1:16-32 describes in perfect detail how the seminaries (so called) have ended up teaching a false gospel. What makes me cringe most of all is when the term "church" is applied to those sinners. To be part of the Church one must be a believer in Jesus. The concept that all religions lead to God is true in one sense only, it doesn't lead to heaven as they wish, but to the Great White Throne of Judgement and being cast into the Lake of Fire forever.
My hubby’s family is/was UMC pastors including hid dad. My MIL even said that my FIL was taught there was no hell. I don’t think she believes in hell either. She knows those that are t Christians don’t go to heaven but I’m not sure if she really believes that those that don’t are going to hell and exactly means.
The UMC is becoming totally apostate.All but three Methodist Churches in my home area have left the UMC and joined the Global Methodist Church.
Is the Global Methodist Church better?
@kd6836 They rejected many heretical doctrines of the UMC.
@ There’s a global Methodist church in my area that has rainbow decorations everywhere and it’s not for Noah. Maybe they’re gone on their own. “Global” usually does not denote positive things.
@@kd6836 None in my area do that.
@ That’s good to know.
Heresy at best. Blasphemy at worst. Unrepentance is unforgivable.
They dropped the authority of God a long time ago. It started formally when they began to ordain women, but it really got its start back with Wesley.
If you are a Christian, you have no business being a part of that mess.
The Universe is constantly changing so what was, is now different.😢
Wow! That creed is literally blasphemous.
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Rev. 22:18-19 Woe be to those who create their own religion. But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. Mt.23:13 & 15 God has reserved a special place in hell for these people.
"and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy"
With careful attention to "book of THIS prophecy" and not any other part of the bible, which did not yet exist when these words were written.
The UMC has long left its theological roots.
Like the PCUSA, they should close their doors and stop spewing anti Christian teachings.
They also believe in women pastors and homosexuals .
I don’t have to preach the steps to hell to avoid. I have to preach the stairway to heaven. Yes, I left the United Methodist Church for their changing The United Methodist Book Of Discipline. However, in almost 30 years of being in the pulpit, I’ve never heard anyone say that everyone goes to heaven, or that the Bible is man’s word.
Well they're saying it now.
This is what happens when churches reject the Holy Spirit! John chapter 16 tells us the Holy Spirit convicts the unbelieving sinner, so they will see their need for Jesus to forgive their sins. The Holy Spirit convicts the believer of their righteousness as a believer in Christ, and the Holy Spirit proclaims judgment on the earth. Time is short and this is just wickedness. 2 Peter 2 predicts swift destruction.
I was never keen on Arminian theology or the idea of entire sanctification. The Methodist movement may have had wheels at one point in the past, but they always seemed a bit out of round.
Maintain eye contact with the viewers.
A universal atonement can only lead to universalist soteriology.
In the mid-80s I attended a UMC affiliated college, one of the best regionally per the magazines and rating agencies. Even back then, it was clear the UMC was off its doctrinal tracks. The religion department was all or mostly atheist or agnostic and gave zero credence to sacred Scripture. Imagin, an ostensibly Christian college teaching the Koran, the Bgavadgita, and Bible with the same level of credulity, but more to heathen religions than to the Christian religion. And this was sanctioned by the UMC and some graduates in that department went on to liberal/leftist divinity programs and now fill the pulpits of UMC and Episcopal churches. The UMC is awash in strange fire, along with the PCUSA and American Baptist churches.
" A universal atonement can only lead to universalist soteriology. "
Only if one is consistent! ;-)
The sad irony is, limited atonement does not automatically mean election. All that is required is God's foreknowledge, with which even the most ardent Arminians agree.
The bible is VERY clear that Jesus died for ALL. Just because the atonement was for every person, doesnt mean that it leads to universalism. The sacrifices of the temple were for ALL Israel but not all Jews were saved. Also believing in limited atonement cam also lead to universalism like within the PCUSA. They were calvinists. Among the "deconstruction movement" a movement where people are leaving Christianity and becoming atheist. 3 out 4 of came from a church that teaches limited atonement. If you believe limited atonement, you must accept that fact that God hates 99% of humanity. You must accept the fact that God "needs" to damn people in order to get glory. I'd say that is every bit as evil as universalism
In a Bible study with some Methodist friends, they told me that the Bible WAS NOT the word of God, it's merely written by humans with no more authority than any of us. I asked where was their authority and they told me that if the statements were uttered by Jesus Himself then you believed them. If Jesus didn't say it in His own words then it was to be disregarded. They've condensed the entire Bible down to the actual words said by Jesus. So my conclusion of what my Methodist friends told me, get a red letter edition and there you go, it's really all you need.
"If Jesus didn't say it in His own words then it was to be disregarded."
Unfortunately, nothing Jesus said was written contemporaneously, by a scribe that followed him around carefully transcribing everything. It is ALL the words of men; but of course, inspired men of God (generally speaking).
Great falling away as prophesied! Apostates.
That’s how it all starts. Reduce the word of God as just an ok book
As in the garden, the serpent says, "has God said?"
Mr. Trench is an unbeliever. We are to have nothing to do with people such as these.
If you are confessing the scriptural components of the Creed from your heart, then you are in Christ and eternal punishment is not in your future.
If you are in Christ, then the Spirit is teaching you to live a moral life, to love others, and to perform works in concert with Jesus' model of service.
If the audience was a group of non-believers, on the other hand, then of course one would give the choice as defined in John 3:16-18. Eternal life or destruction.
There is a difference between evangelism and weekly pastoral teaching.
Of course if Calvin is right I doesn't make any different :)
The methodist came to America in 1700 by Robert coke
They were most spirit and firm Bible people
They were greater than Baptist
Some were like pentecostal and merged into the movement
In 1945 they became united methodist and the decline has been ever since
wow
No where in the Bible does it say there is a place called hell where unbelievers go where they are punished for ever or a person goes to heaven or hell when they die. In John 3:13 Jesus said no one has gone to heaven only He who came from heaven referring to Himself.
R A Torrey HELL IS TRUTH SEEN TO LATE, of all the subject Jesus spoke, talk, preach, was hell, Revelation is the book of judgment and hell, Unfortunately UMC no longer built their house on the rock of the scriptures but on sand an we all should know what happen to that house, and in this case the gates of hell did prevail, because they did not believe, have faith, trust, in the Lord of lords, King of kings,
There are no denominations in Christianity...only some who say so
The wheels never 'fall off'. There are wheels within wheels.
What the church forgot is the idea that we are 'gods' - small G.
In the times of Noah we were told that the FEAR AND DREAD would be of 'us' - mankind.
God is the ONLY ONE to be feared. Scripture condemns the fear of anything else but God.
Guess who we are? At this point, the Nephilim.
Apostasy in the last days.
The lie(s) of Satan:
God is evil
God created man for the purpose of annihilation.
Man does not have free will, and the only way man can tell if he does, is to violate God's law.
God does not have a solution for sin.
(So), God cannot/will not judge sin.
Anywhere we see any of these individually, or in combination, we know that what is being held forth is from the Deceiver, not from God.
ALL &ANY DENOMINATION THAT DOES NOT HAVE THE ONLY SAVING ,PLAN-of- SALVATION,(acts2:38)…it was OBEYED by 1st 3000 TRUE CHRISTIANS says;acts2:41 !…those POOR-DECEIVED -people,have been,LIED TO ! & they’ll get the SAME-SAD-TRUTH that the group got, says the Bible,who God didn’t Let into Heaven !…they just THOUGHT they were CHRISTIANS !…believing-in-Jesus,accepting-Christ,praying “ oh god I love you( or Jesus)”,bla-bla-bla !DOES NOT MAKE YOU a CHRISTIAN !…and YOU ARE NOT SAVED or on your way to HEAVEN ! ! United Pentecostals have this,SAVING TRUTH ! !
I was Methodist for sixty years. At the same church.
I am now Catholic and happy.
I grew up in a mixed home. Mama and most of her side were Southern Methodists while Daddy and most of his family were Southern Baptists. One nearby Uncle and his family were Episcopalian. I remained in one or the other of those churches until in my 60s when o found the ancient Eastern Orthodox faith.
The person who went from Methodist to Catholic jumped from the frying pan into the fire, and cannot truthfully say he has “ a personal relationship with Jesus “. How very VERY sad.
@@carolcole570 Under Pope Francis the Roman Catholic Church does seem to be drifting. But even so I don’t think it compares to the UMC. In any case whether the ordinal commenter has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ or not isn’t something we can know, nor is it our place to judge
@ Both are considered Cults, now.
@ actually no. They aren’t. They (the R.C., U.M.C, and all Protestants churches) are considered heretics. The same as they have been for almost 1000 years. But that’s still irrelevant. Even with individual cult members and pagans, we don’t know what’s in their hearts nor is it our place to Judge. Jesus Christ alone has that knowledge and authority.
I am a former United Methodist, I was raised in the New Providence UMC, in Clarksville, Tennessee.I am now a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints,since 1980.Even if I were still a member of the UMC I would have to flee the wolves who have taken control of the entire system, which hire pastors who deny that Christ is the only means of salvation or that He is the Son of God who has risen from the dead, or was born of the virgin Mary.Not only this, but the UMC has now worshiped the vile golden calf of same sex so called ''marriage'' and its Bishops are appointing pastors who are living in total perversion.Poor John Wesley! He must weep at the utter depravity and nonsense being promoted! John Wesley preached holiness of both public and private conduct, warned the profane of judgment to come and most importantly, praised the mercy and salvation offered in Christ Jesus, conditional upon sincere repentance from those who wished to abandon their folly and rebellion against God.To display a pride flag, or to have a drag queen teach little children in the UMC, is to prop up the tar baby of sin and worship gross darkness.In our ward or congregation of over140 souls, almost half are former Protestants,and 7 of us are former United Methodist, with more joining the Lord's Restored church every year.Churchwide, we are 17.3 million members, the Lord adding to our growth by an average of 25,000 per year.We are one in doctrine, faith, and practice,led by living Apostles and prophets,as in the days of Peter and Paul, with Christ as the Head over all.I love and adore both the Holy Bible and Book of Mormon, each chapter points the man or women to Christ, warns the profane to repent, and gives the hope of salvation in Christ if we are willing to come to our senses and grasp the hand of mercy,offered to all who will come unto the Savior will full purpose of heart.
Mormonism and Liberal Methodist churches are BOTH Universalist religions!!!!!!!!
Dan is another person who has jumped from the frying pan into the fire. He cannot HAVE “ a personal relationship with Jesus Christ “ because he does not believe in the Bible. How utterly sad.
@@carolcole570 Of course I believe in the Holy Bible.I taught it as part of our Gospel Doctrine class, both the Old and New Testament.I also taught the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price.The scriptures exist to bring us to Christ and to salvation.I wanted my classes to be focused on the Savior and His sacrifice for us, and the grace offered, which none of us deserve.
@@carolcole570 I have many friends who belong to different faith traditions.Each of their churches believe the Holy Bible, but they are split into denominations that do not agree with each other, and the each read from the same Holy Bible.I believe that most of these souls have a real relationship with the Savior.
@ Ohhhhh Dan, The Mormons teach that Jesus is the brother of Lucifer. Nevertheless, as a Christian, I will not argue with a man whose spiritual eyes have not been opened. PLEASE……sincerely…..ask God to open your spiritual eyes……to give you His discernment…..His Understanding……and His knowledge. Now……goodbye.
we don't need to get mad at these blasphemies.
for God it is who will get even.
I am well aware of the fact of hell being used as a terrorist instrument by some preachers so full of hate that they use hell like this
but abuse of anything NEVER detracted from the proper an rational use of this.
But of course theological liberals - i don't know why they want to be in church when they reject what the church is supposed to stand for - could never grasp this.
what to do about churches that have left the gospel of Christ like this?
LEAVE THEM
The REAL bad part about religious views isn't that I might go to Hell forever. It is that I might go to Heaven forever and end up kneeling forever before God going nowhere. How boring is that? But since I don't believe in either destination, it doesn't matter. I personally believe that the stuff in Eccl. 9 is the truth - that when you die, you are done. There is no thought, no pain or pleasure, no interaction with the living, no NOTHING. It is through the fear of non-existence after death that religion gains some adherents. But we have already been non-existent for millennia before we were born. Didn't seem to hurt a bit.
That's just it. Heaven will be astonishing, not boring. But you always have the option of turning it down...
The book of Ecclesiates is about the foolishnish of man's view of life without God. Included is Eccl. 9 as you mentioned in your post. This book was written in contrast to the Bible book of Proverbs which is about being wise about life realizing there is an after life and an accountability to God. One interesting detail about these two Bible books is they have the same human writer Soloman at different stages of his earthly life.
There is another contrast in the Bible even more important. It's the difference between religion (human beings attempts to reach up to God in heaven & satisfy Him by doing good works & earning their way to heaven) and Biblical Christianity (God the Father sending His Son Jesus to the earth to die to pay for sin).
Biblical Christianity teaches that a person has to realize he/she is a sinner, that there is a just God who demands a payment of death (separation) to be paid for sin. A person has the option to trust in Jesus as their Savior, as the one who died to pay for their sin, was buried and arose the third day or be sent to an eternal hell to pay for their own sin.
I would encourage you to read the Bible book of the gospel of John (in the new testament) that is about the love of God for humans in spite of their sin.
I am praying for you to give some serious thought to these facts and trust Christ as your spiritual Savior.
Why would one fear nonexistence after death? It is judgement that people fear.
If you were to be correct about dying being nothingness, then I will be dead and not even know it. If the Word of God is correct (and it is) you will be dead and suffering for EVER.
Terrible betting odds. Think about that.
I would have to kindly disagree! I am a former United Methodist, now a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.Christ is Lord and every knee will bow before Him, for He is worthy to be praised! The Savior has risen from the dead, is the Son of God and has purchased our salvation by His death for you and I. There is NO other path to peace or salvation.The Holy Bible and Book of Mormon have only one message, and it is very simple to understand: That we are utterly lost without the sacrifice of our Savior for you and I and that the offer of mercy is extended to all, CONDITIONAL on our sincere repentance from our rebellion and sin, and by grasping by the hand of faith his arm which is mighty to save all who shall call upon Him in their hour of need.
Disgraceful
They have decided to go to war with God