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i still say past it being quiet and full of gimmicky proprietary crap its nothing special its a afterburner card and a weird dual vega no one asked for with real world performance that isnt that much better than the 16" macbook pro in a lot of configs because the faster i9 is a better cpu and more cores isnt enough for a lot of workloads they should have had this ready 2 years ago when it would have been competitive in the fields they think want this still.
@@jonathonrosalia9345 While we agree with you. Apple, did give us a decent tower with lots of expansion available. It isn't perfect. If it had been out 2 years ago it would have been a better product at that point. Thank you for stating your opinion on here. You are appreciated. (:
The “apple tax” is Apple charging its customers the highest market value (retail) price of the components in their units, versus a markup of the wholesale price they purchase at. Every other manufacturer marks up the WHOLESALE price, Apple marks up they RETAIL price, then transfers that to the customer. It’s very underhanded, and makes the “tax” you say isn’t so bad actually more egregious.
Mike S. Well he said he liked it in a recent wan show, so other than the terrible value for the base configuration, he will probably say something positive like the very smart modular design and the cable-less architecture (he said this in the wan show).
They’ve been quite positive with the last few Mac reviews and as Stephen said Linus seemed positive about it on the WAN show. I love watching their reviews so can’t wait to see it!
Their gist of the LTT review: The base model $6000 is extremely fucking terrible. ONLY 8 core CPU? An additional $7000 for a 28 core Intel CPU while the AMD Threadripper 3970x is 32 cores and only costs $2000. Hell, even AMD EPYC 7742 64 CORE CPUs shit on the Mac Pro's highest tier CPU and they only got $6950. $400 FOR WHEELS THAT COST AT MOST $10 PER WHEEL. ACTUAL professionals use their own proprietary systems, software, and servers to work, not Mac Pros. GPU teraflops cannot be compared spec to spec when the architectures are completely different. "Without Nvidia support, Mac Pro will never be used for things such as VFX, 3D rendering and compositing. No production renderer out there supports metal or OpenCL needed for Radeon GPUs to be utilized in that regard. Otoy announced Octane X to support metal 6 months ago and still nothing. Arnold is RTX, VRay, and Redshift also RTX exclusively. Cinebench score for 12-core Xeon is 3 times less than threadripper 3960x Be sure that none of the heavy 3D renderings we see in movies for the last 20 years have ever been produced on Mac OS. In 90's SGI was all the rage, after that Linux and Windows. Mac Pro is an overpriced and underpowered hipster machine with over-engineered irrelevant details. The cableless system is an accident waiting to happen and it's there just for proprietary reasons to allow apple to charge more if something breaks. T2 chip exists for the same purpose. Why not standardized NVME slots? Mac Pro is not one bit more reliable than say HP Z or Dell workstations. Yes, it is modular but you cannot walk into an Apple store and buy replacement psu like you can with HP or Dell. No redundancy also"
As an avid coffee drinker you guys made a great comparison there. My buddies that own coffee shops always talk about the cost of getting started and maintaining their equipment. One of them said to me; "The more money I make. The more problems I have." Great review/s. Thank you Max and team.
There is a lot of Apple stuff that I don't quite like or agree but regarding the Mac Pro, I don't really see a problem with it. Sure, the base model has a bad value for its specs, but there are two things about it, first that the base model exists for those wanting to upgrade themselves, because if you are actually going to use the base model specs, you better off with an iMac Pro. Second because within the $6K you have all the engineering that makes it silent, cable-free and everything else, it's not just the sum of the CPU, GPU, storage and RAM. For people spending $10-20K, it offers a lot and more than any other Mac. I wish it can go AMD eventually.
Dude! This MacPro video is very thorough! Before I asked the wife if I could get MacPro 2019, and she said NO! I showed her your video and now she says YES...Thank You
11:35 The previous Mac Pro towers had excellent power supplies rated at 980 watts and reportedly manufactured by Seasonic. This would be adequate for almost any graphics card made, but Apple did not provide enough headers to power 8-pin cards.
"it's not apple's fault but intel's" .... seriously?? intel held a gun to apple's head and said "You HAVE to use our processors"? I missed that one. its on apple for choosing to using parts from a vendor that has been under-powered and over-priced for years when compared with the competitor's lineup. its not intel's fault for making bad chips, its apples fault for deciding to use them. and while I know it would have been a delay to change to the new sTRX4 socket, the 2nd gen threadripper was out long before apple started this project, and is still a better option over the xeon W.
Always thought this Mac was ridiculously cool. Wish they had a cheaper version available. Also, I honestly think this is basically the best looking Mac Apple has ever made.
There are serious issues that need to be addressed for the machine to be viable for any pro depending on the intended application, really basic stuff here. 1) NVidia support, this is critical for Adobe applications, deep learning as they are built on CUDA, I cannot accept 10-100X+ performance impact by using AMD graphics... the drivers are also questionable in quality and have no ISV cert’s. 2) Intel NVME support, this is a no brainer, They are the reference for SSD’s with every OEM and tier 0/1 using and validating Intel drives, they are the most reliable (speed, endurance etc...). Also I find it highly suspicious Apple isn’t disclosing the SSD’s specifications, what’s the endurance? Are they read/mixed/write intensive? What NAND is used?
Wrong. For any 3D professional, and that's it. Macs are not yet focused on the 3D professional. They are literally the only system used in ANY major music production studio. You won't find a windows machine in most music production studios. They have a Mac and it's running Logic, Pro Tools and FL Studio, along with whatever plugs they need. That's all. Studios don't have time to play games with their systems reliability. The same way you wouldn't walk into a 3D animation studio and find anything other than PC's everywhere. You also aren't going to walk into any major motion film studio editing, coloring, or sound bay and find anything other than a Mac in there. They all have Macs running FCPX, Premiere, Avid, and BlackMagic. So when you say pro, refer to 3D, because that's the only professional Macs aren't yet aimed at. That said, Metal 2 is the future, and CUDA is the now...as was the case with Jumanji 2, and even Pixar, the studios are already seeing what this new Mac Pro running with Metal 2 based render software is capable of, and it is outperforming CUDA/Nvidia by MILES. These aren't consumer based softwares, but as is going to be seen soon with Redshift and Octane, it's coming to the consumer in the not so distant future, and when it does, it will change everything. But you believe what you believe. I'm only basing what I'm saying on personal experience as a studio owner and frequent collaborator with other studios.
I didn’t say audio production, I’m focussing on LR, PS and Premier... Forget the 3D application side. We managed to compile the NVidia source, hacked the drivers into Catalina(with help from Apple guys, all Unofficial) with various Quadro cards... the performance deficit was absolutely huge to the point using AMD cards wasn’t viable... Apple knows this. As for CUDA, it’s not going anywhere and neither is OpenGL, there have been half a dozen API’s which were suppose to replace both yet they are still here.
@@kleanthisgroutides7100 The problem I had was you didn't mention ANYTHING, you just said Professional in general, which is misleading. Even that said, that's a software issue. Obviously we have the Adobe Suite running here as well and Adobe just needs to optimize their software better Apple and PC. And I'm not saying Apple should've blocked Nvidia or CUDA. As I said, I believe Metal is the future but I also believe Nvidia and CUDA are the NOW, so it pisses me off that Apple blocked them...but I understand why they did it. And I also don't believe CUDA or Open GL are going anywhere, but I definitely think Metal will outperform in the long run.
@@evacody1249 Do you even understand what I'm talking about? Him and I had a conversation, you came in like a child. Slow your roll and come at me like an adult next time and we can talk.
Can we upgrade Mac Pro 2019 with the new *2.3 GHz 64-core* 3990X AMD Rryzen CPU for $3,990 dollars instead of the old *2.5 GHz 28‑core* Intel Xeon W processor for $7,000? We can save $3,010.
In my mind the biggest problem with the Mac Pro is that you are forced to allocate your spending towards features you might not care about. What if you don't want to spend extra for a nice design, quiet fans, or wireless internals? You can't just compare the Mac Pro to custom built PC's with those features because a lot of people aren't going to opt to pay for them to begin with. This is a feature of Apple in general. They put a lot of effort into making their products premium in experience, but for anyone who is more interested in raw performance (which is going to be especially true for a tower desktop), that's not always the best use of a customer's funds.
you are missing the point.. Its not for average users like you and me... There are companies who will need these mac pros and will buy in bulk.. I mean basically, a newbie can replace components in the mac pro... These things matters to professionals.. To average customers like us it doesn't matter
@@saikatpaul8955 That would be fine if the Mac Pro was ONLY marketed to the largest companies that buy in bulk. The fact that it can be specced as low as it can shows that it's not.
The glaring flaw in the DIY comparison is that most would likely be building a Threadripper system as opposed to an overpriced XEON system. Why pay more for a slower, less efficient platform, that will also likely max out at 28 cores. Cases are negotiable. The only appeal to Xeon would be if there is a need for more than 256GB on a workstation platform. Several TRX40 boards even have Thunderbolt support.
The old Mac Pro did not have a weak power supply - it was 980W. But its motherboard pins are two x mini 6 pins, which can give up to 75W each + the pcie power (75W), which totals at 225W max graphic cards. There are a few workaround to this.
This review is just like the Mac Pro itself - overkill! Every single question I had is answered ☺️ It‘s a little bit sad that Xeon does not support QuickSync - so h265 (T2) or ProRes (AfterBurner) is the way to go 😅
As a real pro machine the price is not that bad. The reason why people criticize it is because since this is an apple product it ends up leaking into the mainstream public who should totally not buy this. Nobody is buying a $50k hp workstation to edit youtube videos, likewise nobody should buy this mac computer to do the same.
Im sorry, what the mac pro 5,1 had a weak PSU?! 980w is plenty of power. The reason they ran two PSUs is there wasnt enough 8pin PCIE cables to run other GPUSs
I’m with you. The whole idea of being able to be “done” makes me want to pick one up today. I have a 2009 Mac Pro that is still running. I made a comment on another site explaining this and I was called a liar because the person who replied new of a repair person who had old Mac Pros that couldn’t be fixed. Both things can be true. Getting the system with all you could need now means that the only reason to upgrade is if the machine fails (hopefully after another 11 years). If you need to upgrade the parts they will be cheaper in the future. Win/Win.
Your post is what Apple haters like to brush aside and just call you a fanboy. I'm on a late 2009 Imac 27 with the quad i7 and 12 gs ram. It's terribly slow by any standard but it will run and render Blender, even if it takes hours, it works. I have slowdown in Unity app playback but zero problems modeling or animating in the application. Ten years in I have only had to replace the hard drive with an ssd. I'd love a new Mac Pro because I have no desire to step away from Mac OS. I did the research on threadripper builds and it just doesn't seem like money for overkill speed over quality and assurance is worth it. And Windows stinks.
But the single core Logic performance is no better than a Mac Mini, in fact it’s slower! As a writer buying a new Mac Pro to run Kontakt and a heap of plugins on a single channel will make little difference until I start running a lot of tracks, which to end honest most of the time I don’t need.
The problem is you can get a 2X Epyc 7702 system loaded with GPUs and RAM for less money. 128 Epyc cores vs 28 Xeon. The computer is crazy overpriced if you consider that the Intel CPU is obsolete. How're you gonna spend 50+ thousand on a computer that is *literally* less than half as fast as similarly priced builds. Even the 2X Vega Duos in there, thats 4 GPUs. You could buy 8 WX5700s for less than half of the amount of money Apple is charging for those and they'll fit in the epyc chasis.
As far as the new mac pro is concerned, I would not change a thing. What I wish Apple would do is build the imac in a traditional form factor to give is the same type of upgrade path. I don't need the processing power of a mac pro. I bought the classic cheese grader mac back in the day because I hate the imac form factor.
I can give you one... The 2013-2019 Trash Can Mac Pro! Two would be finally a mac you can upgrade the ram and storage yourself, like you used to be able to do on all Macbook Pros, Powerbooks, G5's, Mac mini's.The base model is one of the worst values ever as far as performance per dollar goes, entry level video card, 32GB memory, 256GB ssd, weak 8 core processor, imac 8 core and Macbook Pro 8 core are much better performers, even a used 2010 3.33 12 core with upgraded gpu and ssd would give it a run for its money. But the big thing is you can upgrade it down the line yourself, with or without apple. Bad thing is pcie4 is just around the corner, and the next xeons will not be compatible, so you will be limited to 28 cores in the future, although that is not a bad thing, once those cpu prices go down in a few years.
nowhere else can I get near silent cooling? what about all the people who make passive cooling designs. they literally run so quiet that you can hear the coil whine when the GPUs are under load. literally everything you've claimed so far is exclusive to the mac I can find better in a lot of manufacturers, with the exception of connecting to a pro display xdr, but with that, why do I care? I can get an actual reference monitor, or any of a thousand top tier monitors that will preform as well, or so close to the same, you couldn't tell a difference
Sorry try again...I'm not apple hater but get real...they use avid composer hollwood protools 3d studio max 3d maya also adobe and Pixar on pc or renderfarms...now even midi usb devices and drawing tablets like wacom or artist pro. Macs...general for graphics design and video photo like youtube. New mac 6k display $10k plus $1k...dell 8k monitor better for red raw 8k...8k tv yet?
If afterburner card reduces cpu usage from 70% to 2%, there is no reason to buy better than stock cpu. Moreover, iMac or regular pc with 10% of MacPro price would do as good with that card.
and lastly, no, the vega 2 duos do not double the memory by having two GPUs, they have double the memory in the shared pool, unlike with combined quadros, that actually double your memory and bandwidth, increasing the performance in random IOPS. while HBM2 is more reliable than GDDR6, it is faster by a negligible margin, and its a laughable argument that it's cheaper since I can pick up and RTX 8000 for 5,500 dollars, or a vega II duo for 5,600. oh, and btw, the Vega II is not the fastest GPU in the world. It clocks in at 14.15 teraflops per GPU, making it actually significantly slower than the GPU powering the RTX 8000. seeing at the vega II duo also has no support for ray tracing, double floating point percision, and doesn't have ECC memory, I don't think the industry is going to drop quadros any time soon. and all this to say while initially advertised as scaling perfectly, in the testing i've seen it runs as well as you'd expect if you picked up two vega IIs and run them in crossfire, with about a 20% drop from expected.
I keep hearing that the Mac Pro doesn't have any internal cables when it has at least one. Look at the MacSales and iFixit videos showing a cable used to connect the speaker box (located between the SIMM cards) to the motherboard. Yes, I'm being picky but there is one. Overall the Mac Pro is an amazing piece of engineering.
It would have been better if Apple sent you the almost maxed-out Mac Pros, instead of some tech reviewers because you know what you're talking about. "OMG 50k dollars!!11!1" ==> HP (not only HP) offers 150k workstation "OMG 6k for a monitor" ==> some 40k monitors around "OMG the base model performances are awful !1!1!" ==> none of the buyers of this machine is interested in the base model, if you are a medium size studio the iMac Pro is a better option Thank you for reporting these simple facts, deep tests and studies and data (thanks for the rescuecom report) to explain why this machine makes a lot of sense. Good job as always 👍
Ya a 32 core threadripper build with quadro gpus will simply destroy the fully loaded mac at 1/3 the cost. Don’t get me wrong it’s a great piece of engineering but not worth the price.
I question your data, since the US market share of apple hasn't gone above 15 percent in the past 7 years... and also, its just bad data to start with. most apple customers don't go to third party shops, they go to the apple store, where other companies actually allow other people to repair computers, so you aren't stuck with that option. this says nothing about the reliability of the software or hardware, just that one shop doesn't see many apple computers, and quite frankly given apples clamp down on third party repair, I think it has more to do with shady business practices than it does with the reliability of the computer.
The thing to keep in mind when comparing the Mac Pro and iMac Pro price points is that the iMac Pro also includes a 5k display, which the Mac Pro doesn’t. Can always get that super sweet 6k Pro Display XDR, though. lol. Just don’t forget that $200 VESA mount or the $1k stand.
Ummer Farooq Woo...at the end of the day it’s still a $1k stand. For a professional environment it’s probably not that bad (though why most professionals would NEED a medical grade stand is beyond me), but for a prosumer, it’s more than a tad absurd.
What ? One is a professional tool the other is a car, made for taking people from a to b, even grocery stores. LOL There is no point in this comparison.
@@evacody1249 Where did I say it was specific to music? Rendering 4k/8k film effects and video for movies , television and video games are what this machine is made for. You idiots are missing my point. It is that some people spend their money on an expensive car when a Camry will do everything that they need. And I have no issue with that except when those people criticize others for spending an equal amount of money on something that they prefer, whether it is a 50k on a sound system, an outdoor kitchen or whatever. No one needs a Tesla. People want a Tesla. So some asshole criticizing someone for "overspending" on a computer is a fucking hypocrite.
Nice and solid review. But in case of upgradeability the question is, if you can upgrade the cpu with newer intel xeon processors of the next few years, cause there will probably a new motherboard socket. 28 cores seem overkill, but when there are 64 core and up already available next year, maybe now not the best deal for longterm :D
2012 Mac Pro doesn't have weak power supply. It has 1000 watts and that was for 2009, 2010 and 2012 enough (at their time). Problem is elsewhere. At that that time nobody predict that GPU will need so much power and Apple design it with just two PCI-e six pin connector in motherboard (each with 75 watts). So that's why people need external power supply or do pixels mod thehouseofmoth.com/mac-pro-pixlas-mod/ because if you try use more than 75 watts from six pin connector theirs is good chance that you just burn your motherboard.
It is at the base model the price is ridiculously overprice. But once the acceleration card is added and the beasty GPUs it becomes something completely different. I mean it's not even near as powerful as my home build for $3000 at the entry level. I could definately imagine the Mac Pro at the upper tiers. I can't wait for it to see some 3D render performance on this sexy beast.
I understand your other arguments but its not like a Ferrari at all. Ferrari has a Ferrari engine you can’t stick or get anywhere else. This has a 3.500$ now outdated generaly available CPU that they offer to stick in for you for 7000$. The same goes for the Dell and HP ones (while those could get up to 2 processors so can be at least faster!). I remember the Sun Sparc, SIG Indigo, or the crazy Intel Itanium based HP machines - those were truly unique workstations you just couldn’t get anywhere else, well deserving their prices. This is just a normal PC in a truly beautiful and well engineered case. So a ferrari with a fast, but stock Volkswagen engine.
I don’t understand how you came to workstations that price, you can beat out the Mac pros performance staying under 10k, and you don’t even have to go with an AMD processor intels i9 is basically the same for way less just don’t use ECC ram, ECC doesn’t offer much more stability anymore compared to even ddr3, and compared to ddr4 the difference is negligible except for the fact that ECC is more expensive and slower. A gtx 2080ti should get pretty close to its gpu and still be cheaper and if you wanna beat it than just get 2. On top of all that it’s not like Apple has to use intel for this, they could’ve went with an AMD processor which could leave it up to the user if they want ECC or not.
My only complaint for the mac pro, even though Iam not a mac user, is the components used. I don't think that there is any sense in using xeon processors or EEC memory in a workstation system. In fact they are worse performer than their HEDT counterparts as they sacrifice higher clock speeds and performance for sustainable 24/7 workloads which make sense in servers but not in workstations. I hope that apple can ditch xeon for threadripper very soon.
@@topkek7003 the server parts are meant for complete different types of workloads is what I mean. They don't make any sense for video editing and rendering applications not to mention that they are slower than the consumer grade parts at these applications and much more expensive.
@Hardware Software yeah epyc has worse scores than threadripper and that is not any thing new. There are alot of comparisons between xeons and intel own HEDT with the same core count and for most applications they are slower. Seems like you are the one who don't know what you are talking about. Servers are meant for totally different workloads such as deep learning. And just to your knowledge on cinebench t2, a rendering based application, the threadripper 3970x scored 17k point while the 64 epyc only scored 20k points keeping in mind that the 3950x scored around 9.5k point showing nearly a linear scaling between it and the 3970x which has double its core count.
@Hardware Software and I am not saying that the threadripper is unreliable, you are the one who don't understand. These CPUs are meant for totally different workloads. Surely ignorance is bliss
Absolutely love the review!!! And it is for the real pros that make money with their machines. Please change the video ratio to 2:1 lol would be nice 😀😀😀😀😂
Ivan Karamazov they need to ditch Intel’s sorry ass and go with AMD completely. Intel has huge security flaws that forced Apple to create that encryption chip to keep the users data. Intel is a trojan horse basically 😂
threadripper offers higher core count than xeons, higher 72 GEN4 lanes, ECC memory support and up to 1TB of memory and it is much cheaper so, what are the selling points of xeon w?
@Nosmo King Mostly the reason is that it is too soon. Threadripper, and let alone AMD Epyc are new kids on the block, so to speak, for how those industries work (server stuff, high end graphic production, etc) and the higher end the industry is, the slower in adoption. Among other things, most are long term investments, also, as the name needs to be made. Some valiants adopt first when doing very simple maths in costs (intel vs AMD options), and then the rest follows. Fast in consumer grade stuff, slow the higher the professional use is. AMD is developing at much faster rate, clearly. So, IMO, is not only the current best bet, the advantage seems to be increasing in the incoming times. Hardware vendors are the same. They are slow in adopting. They'll go for it, too, it is not avoidable. Also, that's how things were (stability, heat, etc), but it has been proved that AMD is producing not very stable chips, professional grade, getting motherboards that are professional and premium quality, and what is more, with way less CPU vulnerabilities (against attacks) than intel's. Indeed, some of the patches, BIOS / OS level, have produced significant performance decrease.
@Nosmo King Is that why AMD is grabbing server market share from Intel as we speak? HP and Dell don't offer Threadripper processors yet, but they do offer Epyc-based systems that are stomping intel in many benchmarks for less money. Also, they don't suffer from the same security issues that plague all the latest Intel processors.
All 12. From what I read using 6 slots gets 97% of the performance compared to 12 slots. In the real world it won’t make a difference but what will make a difference is buying 32GB Simms instead of 64GB something should save you some money.
@@doctorkj5640 Not a joke, too many simply invent ways to troll and slam Apple that when something truly awesome arrives they try to cover the truth with fake news. Don't be a troll.
This is an awesome review. Lists all the strong points of mac pro. Addressees all the misconceptions. Also addresses weak points of mac pro. Is greatly researched. Provides real world evidence for “debatable” points. Great job. I’m really impressed.
you are paying 3000$ for a motherboard, 2000$ for the chassis, and then 1000$ for the crap components. The motherboard and chassis are fucking amazing tho.
The base iMac Pro has much better graphics and is a way better value than the base Mac Pro. You would need to spend much more money on a Mac Pro to have better graphics performance and decent SSD storage, like the Vega II GPU upgrade alone costs almost 3K, and it’s not even close of the top of the line GPU, and no Afterburner either. Unlike the iMac Pro, you’ll need a display too, if pairing it the XDR Pro Display it’s 6K more just for that. My audio loops library alone can’t be stored on that base Mac Pro’s SSD, and not even installed the apps yet when the base iMac Pro comes with a respectable 1TB SSD. The Mac Pro only makes sense when spending at least over 20K.
Like, I've been longing for Apple to go to AMD and see how it takes advantage of that multi-core brute force that Ryzen and Threadripper have. But, as far as I have investigated, AMD does not have support for the Thunderbolt protocol that is what characterizes Apple so much
Ok let's do a quick comparison with a Threadripper build. Motherboard: Gigabyte Designare TRX40 $700 CPU: Threadripper 3990X 64 Core 128 Threads $4K RAM: 8x Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB DDR4-3000MHz Total 256GB @ $1.2K GPU: 4x nVidia RTX 2080 TI's = Over 53 Teraflops $4K PSU: Corsair AZ Series AX1600i 1.6 Kilowatt $500 SSD: 2x Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB $800 in Raid 0 = 4TB Case: CoolerMaster Cosmos C700m $400 Throw in a nice cooler too and that's about $12K of bad mathafucking computing power. That's twice as powerful than your 20 or $50K cheese grader! LMAO Am I missing something?
The "industry standard professional codec for editing video" is not ProRess! Especially not since crApple stoped supporting "Apple Color". Digital Intermediats are done with uncompressed RAW material which ProRess is not. ProRess is a compressed format ... though a pretty powerful format for endusers and lower end professionals. However again, ProRess is neither "a standard" -> you people badly need to understand the difference between A STANDARD and common! - nor an industry professional. Well, depends to what industry you are referring but since you pointed out that the Mac Pro is not for the avarange professional I assume we are talking about high-end industry especially since you mentioned Disney who are totally NOT working with ProRess. Completly NOT. Not one frame! This leads me to an interesting question: who is this machines really for? Its not for high-end industry companies because having ProRess support doens't mean sheit. Its also not for lower end professionals because Adobe Premiere for example can't render in ProRess. You can edit in ProRess but not render anything for end format. Highend editing systems can render in ProRess like Davinci Resolve or Avid Mediacomposer (others too) and of course the unprofessional Final Cut X can render in ProRess. Anyway, the Mac Pro 2019 is still a powerful machine. no argument there.
Nice video! I’m considering getting the “rackmount” version but one major concern is Bluetooth reliability considering the Mac Pro will be rackmounted in a solid wooden rack. Has Apple done anything to make sure connectivity is secure and reliable? Thanks!!
The antennas are right under the handles (there are slim plastic inserts that look like the stainless, similar to what they do on iPhones so the signal should be just fine since that section is outside of the rack. 👍
Thanks... but the question is... do you want an expandable machine when we are living in a time where hardware and software are developing exponentially!
The upgradeability and modularity of this machine is irrelevant at a 6k base price. You have a product that's priced right out of the enthusiasts who would want to upgrade it in the first place. Big businesses are just going to configure it once and never venture inside. Where is the non-pro version of this using i5, i7, and i9 processors and non-ECC ram?? Where is the nvidia support? People wanted PCIe slots and Apple reminded us all why we can't have nice things. Maybe people want a Mac for the home that can last a long time and can be upgraded? This product isn't even exciting unless you are running both Vega II Duo's AND the afterburner card. Reviewers are too apologetic for this. Don't settle for it's mediocrity or absurdity. This machine will never be an industry standard. Quinn from Snazzy Labs already proved that with all the devices that do NOT work under MacOS when plugged into the PCIe slots.
Great review! Count me in as someone intrigued by an AMD Epyc 64-core Mac with 16 ram slots. Especially if they enlarged the case slightly to accommodate a second processor and set of ram slots. I have no use for one, but I don't have any use for a Lamborghini either. This is not a comment directed only at Max Tech but really all UA-camrs. When you do your b-roll footage, can you wipe down the black internals? Otherwise, the oil from your hands stands out like crazy. I understand when your doing a-roll and interacting directly with the components but b-roll is staged and should look better. Again, this isn't just your vids, every single one on YT has this problem. Great job otherwise!
I notice a lot of the video editing stuff they have is Final Cut. What about the industry standard Adobe? How does this system compare to similarly priced ThreadRipper system?
Big problem/question for me: yes it’s not expensive compared to other overpriced windows work stations. If you build something like the base model mac pro yourself, you pay around 2000€. So why not build it yourself??
Unless it's a hackintosh it won't run MacOS. And if it's a hackintosh it won't be as reliable as a Mac. For home use and fun, sure go ahead - but is that what you think the target market for this is? Can't see Pixar asking their employees to spend their time building and maintaining their own workstations.
Yes! Of course the pre built pc will be not worth it over the mac Pro. But if you build your own computer, you save literally thousands of dollars at that level of performance.
Nice video, all the Apple haters out there should look at it before starting their uninformed rants (and I’m also talking, sadly, about all the “professional” tech reviewers out there that cry at the price point )
You know? I just wish Apple would keep the current trash can but with updated ports and internal, and market it as a product between Mini and the new MP. I don't need all those expansions but don't want to settle with the mini. And I don't like all-in-one so iMac is out of the question.
A desktop Mac in the price range around $4k base model would be great. With simpler build quality than the Pro, but expandable like a regular PC. (With option to use AMD CPU's and Nvidia cards) I would buy one directly if they made one. But the chance of that ever happening is slim.
@@johanrg70 Well you aren't going to get official Nvidia support from Apple for historical reasons, but the rest, yes. Nothing to stop you plugging an Nvidia card into the Pro if they have their unofficial drivers working.....
Straight out of the gate this thing is old and underpowered because instead of using quadro’s they use AMD cards. Secondly AMD processors are cheaper and perform so much better. Man idk wtf Apple is doing over there
From a purely business prospective, the only reason to get this is if you absolutely MUST use a Mac-only application, don't want to mess with hackintoshes, and want the best performance that Apple has. Other than that, this is ridiculously overpriced considering what you can get with a customized workstation with an AMD TR or Epyc processor.
@@KrunoslavStifter It's not though. Link me to a PC with this industry grade parts and this level of design and craftsmanship. I genuinely would love to see them. Thanks.
Funny you compare to espresso machines. My brother and I are coffee geeks. When I say I want one of these (as a dream, not realistic purchase), he talks about wanting a Nuova Simonelli Aurelia II 2 Gr. TFT Digit Which is around the same price.
You mean small studio commercial grade not big scale commercial server...sorry but hollywood still uses avid and Disney different systems..schools have both apple and pc...others studios trade imacs for cost effective threadripper and final cut is not industry standard Adobe premiere is but da Vinci resolve takeover. Your numbers of uses are wrong neither 8k widespread. 3rd party businesses uses mac's for Pixar but its not main platform its renderfarms that are not apple.. dont mislead people dont lie.
Yes, I think you can save $11,000 if buying 1.5TB ram yourself instead of from Apple who charges $25,000. But atleast it’s better than Dell which charges $44,000 for 1.5Tb ram lol.
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i still say past it being quiet and full of gimmicky proprietary crap its nothing special its a afterburner card and a weird dual vega no one asked for with real world performance that isnt that much better than the 16" macbook pro in a lot of configs because the faster i9 is a better cpu and more cores isnt enough for a lot of workloads they should have had this ready 2 years ago when it would have been competitive in the fields they think want this still.
@@jonathonrosalia9345 While we agree with you. Apple, did give us a decent tower with lots of expansion available. It isn't perfect. If it had been out 2 years ago it would have been a better product at that point. Thank you for stating your opinion on here. You are appreciated. (:
Max Tech when will you upgrade the aspect ratio of your videos
The “apple tax” is Apple charging its customers the highest market value (retail) price of the components in their units, versus a markup of the wholesale price they purchase at.
Every other manufacturer marks up the WHOLESALE price, Apple marks up they RETAIL price, then transfers that to the customer.
It’s very underhanded, and makes the “tax” you say isn’t so bad actually more egregious.
The bigger question is..... *what will Linus Tech Tips say when they review it?*
In this episode of life's biggest questions......
Mike S. Well he said he liked it in a recent wan show, so other than the terrible value for the base configuration, he will probably say something positive like the very smart modular design and the cable-less architecture (he said this in the wan show).
They’ve been quite positive with the last few Mac reviews and as Stephen said Linus seemed positive about it on the WAN show. I love watching their reviews so can’t wait to see it!
Their gist of the LTT review:
The base model $6000 is extremely fucking terrible. ONLY 8 core CPU? An additional $7000 for a 28 core Intel CPU while the AMD Threadripper 3970x is 32 cores and only costs $2000. Hell, even AMD EPYC 7742 64 CORE CPUs shit on the Mac Pro's highest tier CPU and they only got $6950.
$400 FOR WHEELS THAT COST AT MOST $10 PER WHEEL.
ACTUAL professionals use their own proprietary systems, software, and servers to work, not Mac Pros. GPU teraflops cannot be compared spec to spec when the architectures are completely different.
"Without Nvidia support, Mac Pro will never be used for things such as VFX, 3D rendering and compositing. No production renderer out there supports metal or
OpenCL needed for Radeon GPUs to be utilized in that regard.
Otoy announced Octane X to support metal 6 months ago and still nothing.
Arnold is RTX, VRay, and Redshift also RTX exclusively.
Cinebench score for 12-core Xeon is 3 times less than threadripper 3960x
Be sure that none of the heavy 3D renderings we see in movies for the last 20 years
have ever been produced on Mac OS. In 90's SGI was all the rage, after that Linux and Windows.
Mac Pro is an overpriced and underpowered hipster machine with over-engineered
irrelevant details. The cableless system is an accident waiting to happen and it's
there just for proprietary reasons to allow apple to charge more if something
breaks. T2 chip exists for the same purpose. Why not standardized NVME slots?
Mac Pro is not one bit more reliable than say HP Z or Dell workstations. Yes, it is modular but you cannot walk into an Apple store and buy replacement psu like you can with HP or Dell. No redundancy also"
@@TommyBlaze13 lies when did he review it?
As an avid coffee drinker you guys made a great comparison there. My buddies that own coffee shops always talk about the cost of getting started and maintaining their equipment. One of them said to me; "The more money I make. The more problems I have."
Great review/s. Thank you Max and team.
Thank you for your continued support!
Max Tech You’re welcome.
There is a lot of Apple stuff that I don't quite like or agree but regarding the Mac Pro, I don't really see a problem with it. Sure, the base model has a bad value for its specs, but there are two things about it, first that the base model exists for those wanting to upgrade themselves, because if you are actually going to use the base model specs, you better off with an iMac Pro. Second because within the $6K you have all the engineering that makes it silent, cable-free and everything else, it's not just the sum of the CPU, GPU, storage and RAM. For people spending $10-20K, it offers a lot and more than any other Mac. I wish it can go AMD eventually.
Dude! This MacPro video is very thorough! Before I asked the wife if I could get MacPro 2019, and she said NO! I showed her your video and now she says YES...Thank You
Haaaaa The same for my wife. I got a MacBook Pro 2019 and it came hot out the box. She finally told me to get what I need,
11:35 The previous Mac Pro towers had excellent power supplies rated at 980 watts and reportedly manufactured by Seasonic. This would be adequate for almost any graphics card made, but Apple did not provide enough headers to power 8-pin cards.
"it's not apple's fault but intel's" .... seriously?? intel held a gun to apple's head and said "You HAVE to use our processors"? I missed that one. its on apple for choosing to using parts from a vendor that has been under-powered and over-priced for years when compared with the competitor's lineup. its not intel's fault for making bad chips, its apples fault for deciding to use them. and while I know it would have been a delay to change to the new sTRX4 socket, the 2nd gen threadripper was out long before apple started this project, and is still a better option over the xeon W.
Why would you say it's really bad value at the start of the video if basically everything you mentioned after that proves exactly the opposite? 👎
Always thought this Mac was ridiculously cool. Wish they had a cheaper version available.
Also, I honestly think this is basically the best looking Mac Apple has ever made.
but they do ... its called Mac mini :D
@@mr.spokesman5849 lol yeah 😂
There are serious issues that need to be addressed for the machine to be viable for any pro depending on the intended application, really basic stuff here.
1) NVidia support, this is critical for Adobe applications, deep learning as they are built on CUDA, I cannot accept 10-100X+ performance impact by using AMD graphics... the drivers are also questionable in quality and have no ISV cert’s.
2) Intel NVME support, this is a no brainer, They are the reference for SSD’s with every OEM and tier 0/1 using and validating Intel drives, they are the most reliable (speed, endurance etc...).
Also I find it highly suspicious Apple isn’t disclosing the SSD’s specifications, what’s the endurance? Are they read/mixed/write intensive? What NAND is used?
Yet every other company (Dell, HP, IBM) gives you detailed information in highlighted in bold the manufacturer, model, endurance and usage case.
Wrong. For any 3D professional, and that's it. Macs are not yet focused on the 3D professional. They are literally the only system used in ANY major music production studio. You won't find a windows machine in most music production studios. They have a Mac and it's running Logic, Pro Tools and FL Studio, along with whatever plugs they need. That's all. Studios don't have time to play games with their systems reliability. The same way you wouldn't walk into a 3D animation studio and find anything other than PC's everywhere. You also aren't going to walk into any major motion film studio editing, coloring, or sound bay and find anything other than a Mac in there. They all have Macs running FCPX, Premiere, Avid, and BlackMagic.
So when you say pro, refer to 3D, because that's the only professional Macs aren't yet aimed at. That said, Metal 2 is the future, and CUDA is the now...as was the case with Jumanji 2, and even Pixar, the studios are already seeing what this new Mac Pro running with Metal 2 based render software is capable of, and it is outperforming CUDA/Nvidia by MILES. These aren't consumer based softwares, but as is going to be seen soon with Redshift and Octane, it's coming to the consumer in the not so distant future, and when it does, it will change everything.
But you believe what you believe. I'm only basing what I'm saying on personal experience as a studio owner and frequent collaborator with other studios.
I didn’t say audio production, I’m focussing on LR, PS and Premier...
Forget the 3D application side.
We managed to compile the NVidia source, hacked the drivers into Catalina(with help from Apple guys, all
Unofficial) with various Quadro cards... the performance deficit was absolutely huge to the point using AMD cards wasn’t viable... Apple knows this.
As for CUDA, it’s not going anywhere and neither is OpenGL, there have been half a dozen API’s which were suppose to replace both yet they are still here.
@@kleanthisgroutides7100 The problem I had was you didn't mention ANYTHING, you just said Professional in general, which is misleading. Even that said, that's a software issue. Obviously we have the Adobe Suite running here as well and Adobe just needs to optimize their software better Apple and PC. And I'm not saying Apple should've blocked Nvidia or CUDA. As I said, I believe Metal is the future but I also believe Nvidia and CUDA are the NOW, so it pisses me off that Apple blocked them...but I understand why they did it. And I also don't believe CUDA or Open GL are going anywhere, but I definitely think Metal will outperform in the long run.
@@evacody1249 Do you even understand what I'm talking about? Him and I had a conversation, you came in like a child. Slow your roll and come at me like an adult next time and we can talk.
Can we upgrade Mac Pro 2019 with the new *2.3 GHz 64-core* 3990X AMD Rryzen CPU for $3,990 dollars instead of the old
*2.5 GHz 28‑core* Intel Xeon W processor for $7,000? We can save $3,010.
In my mind the biggest problem with the Mac Pro is that you are forced to allocate your spending towards features you might not care about. What if you don't want to spend extra for a nice design, quiet fans, or wireless internals? You can't just compare the Mac Pro to custom built PC's with those features because a lot of people aren't going to opt to pay for them to begin with.
This is a feature of Apple in general. They put a lot of effort into making their products premium in experience, but for anyone who is more interested in raw performance (which is going to be especially true for a tower desktop), that's not always the best use of a customer's funds.
you are missing the point.. Its not for average users like you and me... There are companies who will need these mac pros and will buy in bulk.. I mean basically, a newbie can replace components in the mac pro... These things matters to professionals.. To average customers like us it doesn't matter
@@saikatpaul8955 That would be fine if the Mac Pro was ONLY marketed to the largest companies that buy in bulk.
The fact that it can be specced as low as it can shows that it's not.
The glaring flaw in the DIY comparison is that most would likely be building a Threadripper system as opposed to an overpriced XEON system. Why pay more for a slower, less efficient platform, that will also likely max out at 28 cores. Cases are negotiable. The only appeal to Xeon would be if there is a need for more than 256GB on a workstation platform. Several TRX40 boards even have Thunderbolt support.
The old Mac Pro did not have a weak power supply - it was 980W.
But its motherboard pins are two x mini 6 pins, which can give up to 75W each + the pcie power (75W), which totals at 225W max graphic cards.
There are a few workaround to this.
I’m thankful to have two Micro Centers within 40 minutes of my home. Now all I need is some money.
for my use, I would upgrade the SSD and GPU from the base model.
This review is just like the Mac Pro itself - overkill! Every single question I had is answered ☺️
It‘s a little bit sad that Xeon does not support QuickSync - so h265 (T2) or ProRes (AfterBurner) is the way to go 😅
iKnowReview Freut mich dich hier zu sehen Kilian :)
iKnowReview I now this guy
That’s funny
It uses the AMD cards for encoding and decoding H.264 / H.265 which actually are faster than Quick Sync in a lot of cases.
In these models, as in iMac Pro, GPU encode and decode is supported via a combo of T2 and GPU. So nobody is really missing QuickSync here..
Love the Lambo reference
As a real pro machine the price is not that bad. The reason why people criticize it is because since this is an apple product it ends up leaking into the mainstream public who should totally not buy this. Nobody is buying a $50k hp workstation to edit youtube videos, likewise nobody should buy this mac computer to do the same.
Just stick in 2 RTX 2080 ti or 2 RTX quaddro 8000 and an AMD epyc or threadripper and you're sorted on a workstation
And what about a Thunderbolt 3?
Im sorry, what the mac pro 5,1 had a weak PSU?! 980w is plenty of power. The reason they ran two PSUs is there wasnt enough 8pin PCIE cables to run other GPUSs
It’s not sold out at all. One week only for delivery like the iMac Pro.
Yes not sold out...very little demand apple turn their back on consumer and they are behind production.
I’ll be getting this new Mac Pro, I still have my 2008’ Mac Pro (I paid $5,000.00 for the computer and $999.00 per Screen of which I have two) with 16GB RAM running OS X Sierra, this will be a great upgrade for me with the new Mac Pro.
Programs I currently use :
Pro Audio :
LOGIC PRO X 10.3.4
Reason 10
Komplete 10
UAD Plugins (All)
SoundToys Plugins (All)
WaveArts Plugins (All)
Pro Digital Art :
Final Cut Pro X 10.3.4
Blackmagic Design Resolve 15
Pixologic ZBRUSH 2020’
Cinema 4D
Autodesk Suite Entertainment Creation 2011 {Maya, Mudbox & Sketchbook Pro}
Adobe® Creative Suite® 5 Master Collection
Corel Painter 12
Harmony/Toon Boom
Digital Drawing Tablets : Wacom Cintiq & Intous
*All the same software installed on my mid-2010’ MacBook Pro 💻 running High Sierra 10.13 & a 2015’ 5K iMac 🖥 running Mojave.
**Never had to purchase any anti-virus software for any of my Macs.
***Upgraded from ZBrush 2019’ to 2020
I’m glad that this new Mac Pro will actually be modular and have PCIe slots like my 2008’. Gonna Max it out and be done with it, hopefully it’ll last me 10/11 years like my original did.
Good job apple.
TheGift of7™️
#MuSétiś™
#MusicSurroundsUs©
I’m with you. The whole idea of being able to be “done” makes me want to pick one up today. I have a 2009 Mac Pro that is still running. I made a comment on another site explaining this and I was called a liar because the person who replied new of a repair person who had old Mac Pros that couldn’t be fixed. Both things can be true. Getting the system with all you could need now means that the only reason to upgrade is if the machine fails (hopefully after another 11 years). If you need to upgrade the parts they will be cheaper in the future. Win/Win.
Your post is what Apple haters like to brush aside and just call you a fanboy. I'm on a late 2009 Imac 27 with the quad i7 and 12 gs ram. It's terribly slow by any standard but it will run and render Blender, even if it takes hours, it works. I have slowdown in Unity app playback but zero problems modeling or animating in the application. Ten years in I have only had to replace the hard drive with an ssd. I'd love a new Mac Pro because I have no desire to step away from Mac OS. I did the research on threadripper builds and it just doesn't seem like money for overkill speed over quality and assurance is worth it. And Windows stinks.
@@cameronbosch1213 Have you tried MacOS ?
I love MacOS
But the single core Logic performance is no better than a Mac Mini, in fact it’s slower! As a writer buying a new Mac Pro to run Kontakt and a heap of plugins on a single channel will make little difference until I start running a lot of tracks, which to end honest most of the time I don’t need.
Space Cadet Thank You.
The problem is you can get a 2X Epyc 7702 system loaded with GPUs and RAM for less money. 128 Epyc cores vs 28 Xeon. The computer is crazy overpriced if you consider that the Intel CPU is obsolete. How're you gonna spend 50+ thousand on a computer that is *literally* less than half as fast as similarly priced builds.
Even the 2X Vega Duos in there, thats 4 GPUs. You could buy 8 WX5700s for less than half of the amount of money Apple is charging for those and they'll fit in the epyc chasis.
As far as the new mac pro is concerned, I would not change a thing. What I wish Apple would do is build the imac in a traditional form factor to give is the same type of upgrade path. I don't need the processing power of a mac pro. I bought the classic cheese grader mac back in the day because I hate the imac form factor.
I can give you one...
The 2013-2019 Trash Can Mac Pro!
Two would be finally a mac you can upgrade the ram and storage yourself, like you used to be able to do on all Macbook Pros, Powerbooks, G5's, Mac mini's.The base model is one of the worst values ever as far as performance per dollar goes, entry level video card, 32GB memory, 256GB ssd, weak 8 core processor, imac 8 core and Macbook Pro 8 core are much better performers, even a used 2010 3.33 12 core with upgraded gpu and ssd would give it a run for its money.
But the big thing is you can upgrade it down the line yourself, with or without apple.
Bad thing is pcie4 is just around the corner, and the next xeons will not be compatible, so you will be limited to 28 cores in the future, although that is not a bad thing, once those cpu prices go down in a few years.
nowhere else can I get near silent cooling? what about all the people who make passive cooling designs. they literally run so quiet that you can hear the coil whine when the GPUs are under load. literally everything you've claimed so far is exclusive to the mac I can find better in a lot of manufacturers, with the exception of connecting to a pro display xdr, but with that, why do I care? I can get an actual reference monitor, or any of a thousand top tier monitors that will preform as well, or so close to the same, you couldn't tell a difference
Sorry try again...I'm not apple hater but get real...they use avid composer hollwood protools 3d studio max 3d maya also adobe and Pixar on pc or renderfarms...now even midi usb devices and drawing tablets like wacom or artist pro. Macs...general for graphics design and video photo like youtube. New mac 6k display $10k plus $1k...dell 8k monitor better for red raw 8k...8k tv yet?
Did you guys buy this system with your own money or got it sent out?
He bought it with his own money
Apple doesn't pay people to say stuff or give products out for free to normal youtubers
@uwu manko what ?! why are you lying ?
@uwu manko Hi Apple did not gift him it I think we are both wrong.I looked at the video and some resseller store gifted him it (not Apple)
Great video!
I bought the machine. I got the 16 core 2 TB internal with 32 gigs of RAM to start. I have a shared this video all over the place!
If afterburner card reduces cpu usage from 70% to 2%, there is no reason to buy better than stock cpu. Moreover, iMac or regular pc with 10% of MacPro price would do as good with that card.
and lastly, no, the vega 2 duos do not double the memory by having two GPUs, they have double the memory in the shared pool, unlike with combined quadros, that actually double your memory and bandwidth, increasing the performance in random IOPS. while HBM2 is more reliable than GDDR6, it is faster by a negligible margin, and its a laughable argument that it's cheaper since I can pick up and RTX 8000 for 5,500 dollars, or a vega II duo for 5,600. oh, and btw, the Vega II is not the fastest GPU in the world. It clocks in at 14.15 teraflops per GPU, making it actually significantly slower than the GPU powering the RTX 8000. seeing at the vega II duo also has no support for ray tracing, double floating point percision, and doesn't have ECC memory, I don't think the industry is going to drop quadros any time soon. and all this to say while initially advertised as scaling perfectly, in the testing i've seen it runs as well as you'd expect if you picked up two vega IIs and run them in crossfire, with about a 20% drop from expected.
I keep hearing that the Mac Pro doesn't have any internal cables when it has at least one. Look at the MacSales and iFixit videos showing a cable used to connect the speaker box (located between the SIMM cards) to the motherboard. Yes, I'm being picky but there is one. Overall the Mac Pro is an amazing piece of engineering.
It would have been better if Apple sent you the almost maxed-out Mac Pros, instead of some tech reviewers because you know what you're talking about.
"OMG 50k dollars!!11!1" ==> HP (not only HP) offers 150k workstation
"OMG 6k for a monitor" ==> some 40k monitors around
"OMG the base model performances are awful !1!1!" ==> none of the buyers of this machine is interested in the base model, if you are a medium size studio the iMac Pro is a better option
Thank you for reporting these simple facts, deep tests and studies and data (thanks for the rescuecom report) to explain why this machine makes a lot of sense.
Good job as always 👍
Ya a 32 core threadripper build with quadro gpus will simply destroy the fully loaded mac at 1/3 the cost. Don’t get me wrong it’s a great piece of engineering but not worth the price.
The whole reason Apple has an afterburner card is because AMD has no equivalent to the quadro
Deciding on the 12 core or 16 core. Which should I go with?
I question your data, since the US market share of apple hasn't gone above 15 percent in the past 7 years... and also, its just bad data to start with. most apple customers don't go to third party shops, they go to the apple store, where other companies actually allow other people to repair computers, so you aren't stuck with that option. this says nothing about the reliability of the software or hardware, just that one shop doesn't see many apple computers, and quite frankly given apples clamp down on third party repair, I think it has more to do with shady business practices than it does with the reliability of the computer.
The thing to keep in mind when comparing the Mac Pro and iMac Pro price points is that the iMac Pro also includes a 5k display, which the Mac Pro doesn’t. Can always get that super sweet 6k Pro Display XDR, though. lol. Just don’t forget that $200 VESA mount or the $1k stand.
Ummer Farooq Woo...at the end of the day it’s still a $1k stand. For a professional environment it’s probably not that bad (though why most professionals would NEED a medical grade stand is beyond me), but for a prosumer, it’s more than a tad absurd.
It amazes me that people who balk at the price of a loaded Mac Pro also overspend on a S Class Mercedes to drive to the grocery store.
CommieCrafter11 you’re right. Instead, they buy a £70k Range Rover just to take the kids to school in!
My Tesla doesn’t make me money, but my Mac does and costs a lot less. - Max
@@MaxTechOfficial start a tesla taxi service 😂
What ? One is a professional tool the other is a car, made for taking people from a to b, even grocery stores. LOL There is no point in this comparison.
@@evacody1249 Where did I say it was specific to music?
Rendering 4k/8k film effects and video for movies , television and video games are what this machine is made for.
You idiots are missing my point. It is that some people spend their money on an expensive car when a Camry will do everything that they need. And I have no issue with that except when those people criticize others for spending an equal amount of money on something that they prefer, whether it is a 50k on a sound system, an outdoor kitchen or whatever.
No one needs a Tesla. People want a Tesla. So some asshole criticizing someone for "overspending" on a computer is a fucking hypocrite.
Nice and solid review. But in case of upgradeability the question is, if you can upgrade the cpu with newer intel xeon processors of the next few years, cause there will probably a new motherboard socket. 28 cores seem overkill, but when there are 64 core and up already available next year, maybe now not the best deal for longterm :D
well ...maybe your business can wait a year ... but time is money.
2012 Mac Pro doesn't have weak power supply. It has 1000 watts and that was for 2009, 2010 and 2012 enough (at their time). Problem is elsewhere. At that that time nobody predict that GPU will need so much power and Apple design it with just two PCI-e six pin connector in motherboard (each with 75 watts). So that's why people need external power supply or do pixels mod thehouseofmoth.com/mac-pro-pixlas-mod/ because if you try use more than 75 watts from six pin connector theirs is good chance that you just burn your motherboard.
Thanks for the info and for your viewership!
13:39 Those three things are exactly why I decided to buy one.
I would really like to see comparison between Mac Pro and hackintosh based on Ryzen 3950X and Threadripper 3970X
Max will never do it. The Threadripper will shit on the 28 Intel CPU Mac Pro. Why would he show the Mac Pro he bought to be slower than a cheaper PC?
Because we don’t have a problem with facts! I’m trying to arrange getting a 3790X system with Nvidia to test 👍 -Max
@@MaxTechOfficial you are the man for this, so many Mac pros in the wild but not PC comparisons yet, thank you
It is at the base model the price is ridiculously overprice. But once the acceleration card is added and the beasty GPUs it becomes something completely different. I mean it's not even near as powerful as my home build for $3000 at the entry level. I could definately imagine the Mac Pro at the upper tiers. I can't wait for it to see some 3D render performance on this sexy beast.
Mac Pro: 1.5TB of ram
My computer: 0.5TB of storage
but will it run Crysis?
I understand your other arguments but its not like a Ferrari at all. Ferrari has a Ferrari engine you can’t stick or get anywhere else. This has a 3.500$ now outdated generaly available CPU that they offer to stick in for you for 7000$. The same goes for the Dell and HP ones (while those could get up to 2 processors so can be at least faster!). I remember the Sun Sparc, SIG Indigo, or the crazy Intel Itanium based HP machines - those were truly unique workstations you just couldn’t get anywhere else, well deserving their prices. This is just a normal PC in a truly beautiful and well engineered case. So a ferrari with a fast, but stock Volkswagen engine.
Precisely.
There are certainly multiple specific things that it offers that you can’t get anywhere else and we list them in the video. - Max
I don’t understand how you came to workstations that price, you can beat out the Mac pros performance staying under 10k, and you don’t even have to go with an AMD processor intels i9 is basically the same for way less just don’t use ECC ram, ECC doesn’t offer much more stability anymore compared to even ddr3, and compared to ddr4 the difference is negligible except for the fact that ECC is more expensive and slower. A gtx 2080ti should get pretty close to its gpu and still be cheaper and if you wanna beat it than just get 2. On top of all that it’s not like Apple has to use intel for this, they could’ve went with an AMD processor which could leave it up to the user if they want ECC or not.
Definitely not a paid review. What LG monitor?
I don't think you could have done a better job at explaining the purpose, price, and proper owner usage-case for this machine.
so what happens when they switch to their own cpus? will you be able to get cpu upgrades from Apple or OWC and other vendors?
My only complaint for the mac pro, even though Iam not a mac user, is the components used. I don't think that there is any sense in using xeon processors or EEC memory in a workstation system. In fact they are worse performer than their HEDT counterparts as they sacrifice higher clock speeds and performance for sustainable 24/7 workloads which make sense in servers but not in workstations. I hope that apple can ditch xeon for threadripper very soon.
uhhhh, in order to save data, have your computer not crash, prevent data loss
@@topkek7003 ??
@@topkek7003 the server parts are meant for complete different types of workloads is what I mean. They don't make any sense for video editing and rendering applications not to mention that they are slower than the consumer grade parts at these applications and much more expensive.
@Hardware Software yeah epyc has worse scores than threadripper and that is not any thing new. There are alot of comparisons between xeons and intel own HEDT with the same core count and for most applications they are slower. Seems like you are the one who don't know what you are talking about. Servers are meant for totally different workloads such as deep learning. And just to your knowledge on cinebench t2, a rendering based application, the threadripper 3970x scored 17k point while the 64 epyc only scored 20k points keeping in mind that the 3950x scored around 9.5k point showing nearly a linear scaling between it and the 3970x which has double its core count.
@Hardware Software and I am not saying that the threadripper is unreliable, you are the one who don't understand. These CPUs are meant for totally different workloads. Surely ignorance is bliss
Why do you only have benchmarks against other Macs?
Wildwood Digital Media because it’s a comparison between the lower spec and higher spec Macs?
Really impressive❤️
Well explained
Haha, I'm still using my 2013 Mac Pro with some upgrades. Well at least until I got my M1 Macbook Pro. But I think I'm going to keep using it.
Me 10 seconds into the vid:
Yeah but it's preeettyyyyy
Absolutely love the review!!! And it is for the real pros that make money with their machines. Please change the video ratio to 2:1 lol would be nice 😀😀😀😀😂
Compare the 28-core Mac Pro to a modern Threadripper system. Hilarity will ensue.
(hint: AMD's latest Threadripper beats _two_ 28-core Xeon Platinums)
Ivan Karamazov they need to ditch Intel’s sorry ass and go with AMD completely. Intel has huge security flaws that forced Apple to create that encryption chip to keep the users data. Intel is a trojan horse basically 😂
threadripper offers higher core count than xeons, higher 72 GEN4 lanes, ECC memory support and up to 1TB of memory and it is much cheaper so, what are the selling points of xeon w?
Intel still performs better in single threaded processes. But it’s just a matter of time. AMD is forcing them to innovate. Which is a good thing.
Álvaro Ybáñez not for those high core count processors we are talking about....
@Nosmo King Mostly the reason is that it is too soon. Threadripper, and let alone AMD Epyc are new kids on the block, so to speak, for how those industries work (server stuff, high end graphic production, etc) and the higher end the industry is, the slower in adoption. Among other things, most are long term investments, also, as the name needs to be made. Some valiants adopt first when doing very simple maths in costs (intel vs AMD options), and then the rest follows. Fast in consumer grade stuff, slow the higher the professional use is. AMD is developing at much faster rate, clearly. So, IMO, is not only the current best bet, the advantage seems to be increasing in the incoming times.
Hardware vendors are the same. They are slow in adopting. They'll go for it, too, it is not avoidable.
Also, that's how things were (stability, heat, etc), but it has been proved that AMD is producing not very stable chips, professional grade, getting motherboards that are professional and premium quality, and what is more, with way less CPU vulnerabilities (against attacks) than intel's. Indeed, some of the patches, BIOS / OS level, have produced significant performance decrease.
@Nosmo King Is that why AMD is grabbing server market share from Intel as we speak? HP and Dell don't offer Threadripper processors yet, but they do offer Epyc-based systems that are stomping intel in many benchmarks for less money. Also, they don't suffer from the same security issues that plague all the latest Intel processors.
I can build a PC for 42,000$, and it would have the same specs, but with 32GB more graphic memory and 2x 28-cores
GammΩ proof?
WasteOfAllTime i don’t have 42,000 Dollars
You want a list?
But can it play crisis
Is it faster to fill 6 of 12 slots with 64GB RAM or all 12 slots with 32GB RAM? Thanks!
All 12. From what I read using 6 slots gets 97% of the performance compared to 12 slots. In the real world it won’t make a difference but what will make a difference is buying 32GB Simms instead of 64GB something should save you some money.
@@MaxTechOfficial Disagree...IMHO - In order to increase overall value and upgradability, the more expensive option of 6x64GB is better than 12x32GB.
Could you guys do an After Effects Benchmark compared to a Good Editing PC?
Tony OD Morera yeah man. Seemslike only a handful of people still creates originial animations.
Excellent, honest, truthful, informative and useful video, thank you!
I sincerely hope you're joking...
@@doctorkj5640 Not a joke, too many simply invent ways to troll and slam Apple that when something truly awesome arrives they try to cover the truth with fake news. Don't be a troll.
@@Billy123bobzzz Oh man, go see a therapist...
@@doctorkj5640 You ned to go see a real doctor, they now have therapy for trolls.
@@Billy123bobzzz Thnx man, I see you already have a lot of experience.. :-)))
This is an awesome review.
Lists all the strong points of mac pro.
Addressees all the misconceptions.
Also addresses weak points of mac pro.
Is greatly researched. Provides real world evidence for “debatable” points.
Great job. I’m really impressed.
you are paying 3000$ for a motherboard, 2000$ for the chassis, and then 1000$ for the crap components.
The motherboard and chassis are fucking amazing tho.
Great job with research and back up specs.
The base iMac Pro has much better graphics and is a way better value than the base Mac Pro.
You would need to spend much more money on a Mac Pro to have better graphics performance and decent SSD storage, like the Vega II GPU upgrade alone costs almost 3K, and it’s not even close of the top of the line GPU, and no Afterburner either. Unlike the iMac Pro, you’ll need a display too, if pairing it the XDR Pro Display it’s 6K more just for that.
My audio loops library alone can’t be stored on that base Mac Pro’s SSD, and not even installed the apps yet when the base iMac Pro comes with a respectable 1TB SSD.
The Mac Pro only makes sense when spending at least over 20K.
Like, I've been longing for Apple to go to AMD and see how it takes advantage of that multi-core brute force that Ryzen and Threadripper have. But, as far as I have investigated, AMD does not have support for the Thunderbolt protocol that is what characterizes Apple so much
Ok let's do a quick comparison with a Threadripper build.
Motherboard: Gigabyte Designare TRX40 $700
CPU: Threadripper 3990X 64 Core 128 Threads $4K
RAM: 8x Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB DDR4-3000MHz Total 256GB @ $1.2K
GPU: 4x nVidia RTX 2080 TI's = Over 53 Teraflops $4K
PSU: Corsair AZ Series AX1600i
1.6 Kilowatt $500
SSD: 2x Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB
$800 in Raid 0 = 4TB
Case: CoolerMaster Cosmos C700m
$400
Throw in a nice cooler too and that's about $12K of bad mathafucking computing power. That's twice as powerful than your 20 or $50K cheese grader! LMAO
Am I missing something?
The "industry standard professional codec for editing video" is not ProRess! Especially not since crApple stoped supporting "Apple Color". Digital Intermediats are done with uncompressed RAW material which ProRess is not. ProRess is a compressed format ... though a pretty powerful format for endusers and lower end professionals. However again, ProRess is neither "a standard" -> you people badly need to understand the difference between A STANDARD and common! - nor an industry professional. Well, depends to what industry you are referring but since you pointed out that the Mac Pro is not for the avarange professional I assume we are talking about high-end industry especially since you mentioned Disney who are totally NOT working with ProRess. Completly NOT. Not one frame!
This leads me to an interesting question: who is this machines really for?
Its not for high-end industry companies because having ProRess support doens't mean sheit. Its also not for lower end professionals because Adobe Premiere for example can't render in ProRess. You can edit in ProRess but not render anything for end format. Highend editing systems can render in ProRess like Davinci Resolve or Avid Mediacomposer (others too) and of course the unprofessional Final Cut X can render in ProRess.
Anyway, the Mac Pro 2019 is still a powerful machine. no argument there.
No Nvidia/CUDA support.
No 32-bit app support.
But hey, you can edit memojis.
you can always downgrade, also, look forward to the future.
I loved the review! You forgot to mention that cable free (if all the components are upgraded by apple) inside this piece of art!
Nice video! I’m considering getting the “rackmount” version but one major concern is Bluetooth reliability considering the Mac Pro will be rackmounted in a solid wooden rack. Has Apple done anything to make sure connectivity is secure and reliable? Thanks!!
The antennas are right under the handles (there are slim plastic inserts that look like the stainless, similar to what they do on iPhones so the signal should be just fine since that section is outside of the rack. 👍
Sounds like something to look forward to! Thanks!!
Thanks... but the question is... do you want an expandable machine when we are living in a time where hardware and software are developing exponentially!
The upgradeability and modularity of this machine is irrelevant at a 6k base price. You have a product that's priced right out of the enthusiasts who would want to upgrade it in the first place. Big businesses are just going to configure it once and never venture inside.
Where is the non-pro version of this using i5, i7, and i9 processors and non-ECC ram?? Where is the nvidia support? People wanted PCIe slots and Apple reminded us all why we can't have nice things. Maybe people want a Mac for the home that can last a long time and can be upgraded? This product isn't even exciting unless you are running both Vega II Duo's AND the afterburner card.
Reviewers are too apologetic for this. Don't settle for it's mediocrity or absurdity. This machine will never be an industry standard. Quinn from Snazzy Labs already proved that with all the devices that do NOT work under MacOS when plugged into the PCIe slots.
Great review! Count me in as someone intrigued by an AMD Epyc 64-core Mac with 16 ram slots. Especially if they enlarged the case slightly to accommodate a second processor and set of ram slots. I have no use for one, but I don't have any use for a Lamborghini either.
This is not a comment directed only at Max Tech but really all UA-camrs. When you do your b-roll footage, can you wipe down the black internals? Otherwise, the oil from your hands stands out like crazy. I understand when your doing a-roll and interacting directly with the components but b-roll is staged and should look better. Again, this isn't just your vids, every single one on YT has this problem. Great job otherwise!
Thank you! Yes we screwed up on that. It honestly wasn’t very visible when recording but much more so in the footage.
Apple is working on the newer Mac Pro using 5-10 M1x Apple silicon chips.
Renaming it to be called, “The Mac Daddy!”
I notice a lot of the video editing stuff they have is Final Cut. What about the industry standard Adobe? How does this system compare to similarly priced ThreadRipper system?
Can I use it as a server and connect it to Mac minis to run the power demanding programs (like AutoCAD) in it? A sort of thin client server
Big problem/question for me: yes it’s not expensive compared to other overpriced windows work stations. If you build something like the base model mac pro yourself, you pay around 2000€.
So why not build it yourself??
Unless it's a hackintosh it won't run MacOS. And if it's a hackintosh it won't be as reliable as a Mac. For home use and fun, sure go ahead - but is that what you think the target market for this is? Can't see Pixar asking their employees to spend their time building and maintaining their own workstations.
Take a look at 6:58
Yes! Of course the pre built pc will be not worth it over the mac Pro. But if you build your own computer, you save literally thousands of dollars at that level of performance.
It should have had a Threadripper 64 cores and Pci-e 4.0....
The real reason why the Mac Pro is sold out: too many tech review UA-camrs trying to review the Mac Pro! 😂
Dear Sir,
Could you pleases do a video on installing windows 10 or ubuntu on Mac Pro 2019
Nice video, all the Apple haters out there should look at it before starting their uninformed rants (and I’m also talking, sadly, about all the “professional” tech reviewers out there that cry at the price point )
Mac Pro & Lambo 2 products I can't afford mentioned frequently here :D
You know? I just wish Apple would keep the current trash can but with updated ports and internal, and market it as a product between Mini and the new MP. I don't need all those expansions but don't want to settle with the mini. And I don't like all-in-one so iMac is out of the question.
Yep, been saying this for years. There is a massive, MASSIVE gap between the mini and the Pro and no, a lot of us don't want an iMac.
Mac Pro isn't even good enough for the price. Not a single person in the 3D realm recommends AMD Graphics card.
@@busimo "Not a single person" - I can call BS on that one alone. Also which 3d realm? Modelling? Rendering? Which industry? What software?
A desktop Mac in the price range around $4k base model would be great. With simpler build quality than the Pro, but expandable like a regular PC. (With option to use AMD CPU's and Nvidia cards) I would buy one directly if they made one. But the chance of that ever happening is slim.
@@johanrg70 Well you aren't going to get official Nvidia support from Apple for historical reasons, but the rest, yes. Nothing to stop you plugging an Nvidia card into the Pro if they have their unofficial drivers working.....
If apple will soon switch to amd processors does it mean that this mac pro is already old? 🤔
Straight out of the gate this thing is old and underpowered because instead of using quadro’s they use AMD cards. Secondly AMD processors are cheaper and perform so much better. Man idk wtf Apple is doing over there
From a purely business prospective, the only reason to get this is if you absolutely MUST use a Mac-only application, don't want to mess with hackintoshes, and want the best performance that Apple has. Other than that, this is ridiculously overpriced considering what you can get with a customized workstation with an AMD TR or Epyc processor.
@Max Tech - Well done video. Thanks.
Apple tax doesn't exist!! Their profit margins lie around 37%, which is super low.
I honestly did not know that.
Lambo design? ok, if you say so.
compared to other bulky ass windows workstations it feels like lambo design
@@hanzohasashi2631 Bad comparison. Very bad comparison.
@@KrunoslavStifter It's not though. Link me to a PC with this industry grade parts and this level of design and craftsmanship. I genuinely would love to see them. Thanks.
@@thegatewaytoprestige We jacking off to computer cases now? It's a metal box with holes in it. Nothing special so calm your tits
Is there a justification in making a PC like Mac with modularity which could be afforded by regular mortals?
This guy really said Vega graphics is faster than the Quadro cards lmao
Funny you compare to espresso machines. My brother and I are coffee geeks. When I say I want one of these (as a dream, not realistic purchase), he talks about wanting a
Nuova Simonelli Aurelia II 2 Gr. TFT Digit
Which is around the same price.
Is it just me or did I laugh every time he compared it to a lambo
Good job on the review!
You mean small studio commercial grade not big scale commercial server...sorry but hollywood still uses avid and Disney different systems..schools have both apple and pc...others studios trade imacs for cost effective threadripper and final cut is not industry standard Adobe premiere is but da Vinci resolve takeover. Your numbers of uses are wrong neither 8k widespread. 3rd party businesses uses mac's for Pixar but its not main platform its renderfarms that are not apple.. dont mislead people dont lie.
50k half of them is for overpriced ram, if you really want the best spec mac pro. buy him with the lowest ram option. so you can save atleast 5k.
and buy the ram separately,
Yes, I think you can save $11,000 if buying 1.5TB ram yourself instead of from Apple who charges $25,000. But atleast it’s better than Dell which charges $44,000 for 1.5Tb ram lol.
In all of Apples performance testing numbers they didn’t use more than 348GB so there really is no need above that.
Yes you probably never need so much ram
dell's ram cost a whole car holy fuck.
reads the base specs and says "Who WOUld pay fiFtY ThREe THousAnd DoLLaRS FOR iT?"