I would disagree that the gameplay is disconnected from the storyline. And I would seriously disagree with Arthur killing “thousands of innocent people”. The majority of people he killed were other gang members. And if wasn’t gang members it was cops who started shooting him first so he obviously acted in self defense. Arthur doesn’t go around killing innocent people like civilians. I don’t think there’s one scene in the story where Arthur kills an innocent by-stander. Everyone he kills started shooting at him first. Or they have his friends held hostage which in turn would make them un-innocent
It always made sense to me that Arthur got fixated on John, Abigail, and Jack, as they represent an already existing, traditional family unit. He wanted them to have a chance at a peaceful life. He loves Jack. He loves Abigail. And through his growth, has come to forgive John, one of his oldest friends.
Red Dead 2 is one of the best games ever made, but like any game, you have to use your imagination to fill in the gaps. I love that this video is praise, but addresses the fast-paced and somewhat sloppy writing of the second half and ending of the game
The whole Arthur critiquing Dutch for killing people argument is flawed imo. I don’t think Arthur is a hypocrite, I think it’s about a dissidence in power and authority. Arthur shames Dutch because he kills people who don’t have the power to fight back, where as Arthur reasons that he’s killing people with the ability to defend themselves. Arthur’s morale meter is a great example of this philosophy. You can look at this metric as less accurate to how people view Arthur and more so how Arthur views himself. When you do an undeniably bad thing, you’re forced to take a hit to your honour, this is most likely meant to symbolise Arthur shaming himself like how he shames Dutch. I think your arguments are well thought out but ignore this crucial detail. The story is inherently flawed when you search for flaws, you don’t see the reasons for inclusions existing when you hunt for them as flaws.
I dont think john was shocked that they killed bronte, its how he was killed. it was brutal and sadistic. Dutch flew into a rage. It was unlike him and both John and Arthur noticed. This is also a silent bonding moment between arthur and john.
Really loved your bit about Milton. He really wasn't so bad compared to Ross. They are basically like Zhakaev and Makarov. One was definitely worse than the other.
One thing that bugs me about the Blackwater massacre is, it's seems like far more people are killed during the Cornwall shootout in Valentine, murdering the entire town of Strawberry with Micah, and after robbing the trolly station and bank in St Denis. Those 3 missions to me overshadow whatever could have happened in Blackwater.
So.. the fact that arthur wants John and Abigail to raise the boy a way his parents never could is ‘lazy writing’ and we need more reasons? Idk about that 1 chief
Look. The point where Dutch becomes a "Monster" is in Guarma. Specifically when Dutch kills that woman. That's where Arthur starts seeing Dutch in a different light. If you're playing as High Honor Arthur. (Which should be your first playthrough before genocidal maniac run. And also the cannon ending of the game.) Arthur has a fine line he walks that keeps him "moral" High Honor Arthur kills for the gang. To save people close to him, or to help those he holds dear. Like Sean, Lenny, Jack, Javier, so many people he helped save because he deemed them as worth killing for. Arthur is the embodiment of a good man doing bad things for the ones he loves. I'm not here to say that your analysis of Arthur is wrong. But you just missed a few very key details that put the narrative together perfectly. I mean think about it. Arthur never kills out of anger. He doesn't go for petty revenge. Dutch did that on multiple occasions. Bronte, Cornwall, that woman in Guarma, his anger at the Lemoyne Raiders for quote payback for "his daddy" how he left John behind. How he left Arthur for dead and Eagle Flies saved him in place of Dutch. Arthur watched his father abandon his brothers amd sisters. He has a right to view him as a monster. But that's just my take on it. Feel free to point out anything I may be wrong about. (Keep in mind this is from the perspective of High Honor Arthur.)
The reason Arthur is fixated on saving John and his family is because Arthur used to have a woman himself, and a kid. One day, he came back home and he saw two crosses outside of the front porch. That house is actually in the game, and they were shown in Trailer 3, too. Arthur, also, tries starting a family with Mary Linton afterward, but that doesn’t work out. And Arthur has a soft spot for Abigail and Jack, too.
The mention of the horse dying scene feeling hollow doesn’t make sense as you need a level 4 bonding with your horse to generate the scene so if you only recently stole it I wouldn’t think you would have that. Either way vast majority of people will have the same horse from early on so I think it’s a great add on
Arthur probably notices the renewed relationship between John and his family, and is content that he's not wasting his chance like Arthur did, but is listening to Arthur.
This is my favourite game of all time. Gameplay and story fit together perfectly. Arthur's ending is the most emotional thing I've experienced in a game, from his last ride all the way untill he sees the sun rise for the last time. brings a tear to my eye just thinking of it.
You say your points in a way with so much confidence and conviction that I almost end up siding with you but nah, in all, Arthur is the most sincere, redeeming, interesting and empathetic character that I have ever come across in fiction. And you threw me for a loop with the whole borderline-defending Micah thing. But interesting vid nonetheless!
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they weren't shocked that Dutch killed Bronte it was how he killed him.. that's why john says about feeding a fella to a croc
I would disagree that the gameplay is disconnected from the storyline. And I would seriously disagree with Arthur killing “thousands of innocent people”. The majority of people he killed were other gang members. And if wasn’t gang members it was cops who started shooting him first so he obviously acted in self defense. Arthur doesn’t go around killing innocent people like civilians. I don’t think there’s one scene in the story where Arthur kills an innocent by-stander. Everyone he kills started shooting at him first. Or they have his friends held hostage which in turn would make them un-innocent
It always made sense to me that Arthur got fixated on John, Abigail, and Jack, as they represent an already existing, traditional family unit. He wanted them to have a chance at a peaceful life. He loves Jack. He loves Abigail. And through his growth, has come to forgive John, one of his oldest friends.
Red Dead 2 is one of the best games ever made, but like any game, you have to use your imagination to fill in the gaps. I love that this video is praise, but addresses the fast-paced and somewhat sloppy writing of the second half and ending of the game
The whole Arthur critiquing Dutch for killing people argument is flawed imo. I don’t think Arthur is a hypocrite, I think it’s about a dissidence in power and authority. Arthur shames Dutch because he kills people who don’t have the power to fight back, where as Arthur reasons that he’s killing people with the ability to defend themselves. Arthur’s morale meter is a great example of this philosophy. You can look at this metric as less accurate to how people view Arthur and more so how Arthur views himself. When you do an undeniably bad thing, you’re forced to take a hit to your honour, this is most likely meant to symbolise Arthur shaming himself like how he shames Dutch. I think your arguments are well thought out but ignore this crucial detail. The story is inherently flawed when you search for flaws, you don’t see the reasons for inclusions existing when you hunt for them as flaws.
I dont think john was shocked that they killed bronte, its how he was killed. it was brutal and sadistic. Dutch flew into a rage. It was unlike him and both John and Arthur noticed. This is also a silent bonding moment between arthur and john.
Really loved your bit about Milton. He really wasn't so bad compared to Ross. They are basically like Zhakaev and Makarov. One was definitely worse than the other.
One thing that bugs me about the Blackwater massacre is, it's seems like far more people are killed during the Cornwall shootout in Valentine, murdering the entire town of Strawberry with Micah, and after robbing the trolly station and bank in St Denis. Those 3 missions to me overshadow whatever could have happened in Blackwater.
So.. the fact that arthur wants John and Abigail to raise the boy a way his parents never could is ‘lazy writing’ and we need more reasons? Idk about that 1 chief
Look. The point where Dutch becomes a "Monster" is in Guarma. Specifically when Dutch kills that woman. That's where Arthur starts seeing Dutch in a different light. If you're playing as High Honor Arthur. (Which should be your first playthrough before genocidal maniac run. And also the cannon ending of the game.) Arthur has a fine line he walks that keeps him "moral" High Honor Arthur kills for the gang. To save people close to him, or to help those he holds dear. Like Sean, Lenny, Jack, Javier, so many people he helped save because he deemed them as worth killing for. Arthur is the embodiment of a good man doing bad things for the ones he loves. I'm not here to say that your analysis of Arthur is wrong. But you just missed a few very key details that put the narrative together perfectly. I mean think about it. Arthur never kills out of anger. He doesn't go for petty revenge. Dutch did that on multiple occasions. Bronte, Cornwall, that woman in Guarma, his anger at the Lemoyne Raiders for quote payback for "his daddy" how he left John behind. How he left Arthur for dead and Eagle Flies saved him in place of Dutch. Arthur watched his father abandon his brothers amd sisters. He has a right to view him as a monster. But that's just my take on it. Feel free to point out anything I may be wrong about. (Keep in mind this is from the perspective of High Honor Arthur.)
“Arthur isn’t a real person ”
The reason Arthur is fixated on saving John and his family is because Arthur used to have a woman himself, and a kid. One day, he came back home and he saw two crosses outside of the front porch. That house is actually in the game, and they were shown in Trailer 3, too. Arthur, also, tries starting a family with Mary Linton afterward, but that doesn’t work out. And Arthur has a soft spot for Abigail and Jack, too.
In regards to Dutchs Bounty, $1000 in 1899 has the purchasing power of around $35,758 today, Arthur's $5k bounty would equate to $178,790
The mention of the horse dying scene feeling hollow doesn’t make sense as you need a level 4 bonding with your horse to generate the scene so if you only recently stole it I wouldn’t think you would have that. Either way vast majority of people will have the same horse from early on so I think it’s a great add on
I'd say you're spot on most things in the video, but I have to disagree with you on one thing --Dutch.
Arthur probably notices the renewed relationship between John and his family, and is content that he's not wasting his chance like Arthur did, but is listening to Arthur.
This is my favourite game of all time. Gameplay and story fit together perfectly. Arthur's ending is the most emotional thing I've experienced in a game, from his last ride all the way untill he sees the sun rise for the last time. brings a tear to my eye just thinking of it.
You say your points in a way with so much confidence and conviction that I almost end up siding with you but nah, in all, Arthur is the most sincere, redeeming, interesting and empathetic character that I have ever come across in fiction. And you threw me for a loop with the whole borderline-defending Micah thing. But interesting vid nonetheless!
I think it’s more about personal redemption rather than actually redeeming all their past wrongs or anything like that.