are you serious? don't you have any shame??? what's the point of giving a spoiler notice if you are just spoiling it in the title?????? I didn't even watch your video and now i know dutch is the antagonist. what is wrong with you??? why would you do that? why wouldn't you put another title?? why would you spoil the game for me when im just halfway there to the game??? you're just evil.
In his very first scene, Dutch commands a form of charisma and leadership that's very hard to break away from throughout the game, even as his true self continues to reveal itself.
@@ViciousTNT I think what makes Dutch such a fascinating and compelling villain compared to many others is how we get to see his own internal struggle with the decisions he makes. Like, even in the final scene with him and Arthur, Arthur rightly calls him out for his faulty allegiances ('I gave you all I had') and we do see a flash of hesitation from Dutch. But by that point it's too late. I think that Dutch is gamings equivalent to Walter White. We're led to believe that he changed over the course of the story into a bad man, but upon closer inspection realise this is who he truly was.
@matthewchristou8198 for me I never decided dutch was the enemy, because of his incredible charisma and speech, until the scene were he left Arthur to die you should have seen my face then I was enraged
@@Onezy05 That's a really good comparison; both characters are dark and complex. The folks that cling to Dutch's concussion in the botched bank robbery as the reason for his treachery are probably the same people who would make excuses for real world abusers.
@@A-ds1mt Precisely. At first I also thought that Dutch BECAME a bad man through his idealism constantly failing and the concussion, but then I think that I too was blinded by his charisma. Rewatching the first chapter of the game again, I then realised that Dutch was always like this, what with the way he kept skirting round what happened in Blackwater that involved the murder of girl. To use another more extreme comparison, people excuse Dutch's actions the same way they excuse Tony Sopranos actions, despite the fact that he does some horrendous shit. The guy is a racist, womanising murderer and even when he murders his own nephew people still make excuses for his actions just because his charisma is so captivating.
The visible pain on Arthur's face and in his voice when he tries and fails to convince Dutch to go back for Abigail... It's just heartbreaking how he realizes his "father" is completely gone at that point.
Seeing the way Dutch led the gang in that Braithwaite Manor mission was a cross between ruthless gangster & a breathtakingly unhinged hero. Just off of his audacity alone made me feel like the Van Der Lindes at that point were no longer just outlaws, they were a family.
@@Bacxabergood point. But his audacity & swagger (despite his actual intentions inside of his crazy mind) during the whole mission was enough to galvanize the gang into following him to the manor for what they felt was for a good cause.
Ngl in the hindsight of multiple playthroughs, I feel like that mission is actually the last time the Van Der Linde gang is united as a family, at least the fighters of the group. Even at the party upon Jack's return, some of the gang sit on the sideline, Dutch and Molly argue with each other then vanish, hell even the Marstons disappear upstairs pretty quick. The lines are already beginning to show, Dutch's madness rearing its head again, they'll never be together as a family again after that evening
That's like the most basic thing to most villains. The way you wrote it makes it seem like you said something smart but it's a really clasdic thing to make villains unlikable or scared of. What really makes Dutch worse than many is his ability to manipulate people and play them, and charm and way with word makes people trust him easily to the point that till the end you want to believe that he can turn things around
@@kevink1575I absolutely agree with you. That pseudo intelligent shit is annoying as hell, you see it so often like with Breaking Bad fans for example and yet people see it comments like that and get an orgasm because of those "intelligent" and "thoughtful" comments
Hits harder when you realize the only person he was fighting was himself. He could’ve saved the lives of so many of his crew members, same with Arthur (if you go bad honor), and John. It truly helps you understand the “redemption” aspect of the game that John and Arthur faced their fates head on, while Dutch ran away almost all his life. 👍🏾
Dutch killing an old woman and then carrying unconcious Javier on his shoulder in the same mission highlights the 'duality'. One of the most complex characters ever. And y'all can see how a lot of people react to his death in RDR1 (those who played it after RDR2).
I felt absolutely devastated when Dutch betrayed me in the mill like I was so sure he was gonna help me but when he didn’t I felt such an enormous amount of pain of betrayal I couldn’t believe it.
Dutch’s fall from grace was the main reason why the gang collapsed. He decided to trust a man he knew was rotten to the core over his own son. Hosea dying truly changed him he began to feel overwhelmed and Micah was able to manipulate him and bring out his darker side. Dutch puts on a brave face but inside he has no idea what he is doing. Arthur getting TB made it so Arthur couldn’t take on the role of the angel on Dutch’s shoulder who helps him make the morally right and smart decisions. It’s only when Arthur is dying that he realises Arthur is right and he should have trusted Arthur all along. He thought Arthur was disloyal but Arthur was the most loyal of all the gang. If Dutch listened to Arthur perhaps a lot of the bad things that happened to the gang could have been avoided.
The reason why Dutch’s villain arc hits so hard is because of the way he builds you up before he tears it all down, you had so much more to lose with him than a typical villain. The only thing that can hurt you more than your enemies are your friends. You spend the first few chapters bonding with not only him but the entire gang. They become the family that you never had before, and then you have to do everything in your power to keep them taken care of and protected while you watch the only father figure you got to have slowly break down and turn on all of you. Then you keep on giving him your all hoping your making the right choice only to die having to know you were wrong.
I never played the first RDR so I didn’t know the end of Dutch’s story, I was swept away in the story and I think I felt the way Arthur felt slowly realising what was happening to Dutch and the gang as a whole. Amazing story telling
You have to play the first one. It’s age really shows when compared to this new age of games, but it’s still a lot of fun and the story is phenomenal. Luckily it’s a prequel so you haven’t really lost anything story wise by playing this one first, but I highly recommend you play the first game to get the full story
@@loganwatson5905 I was not too sure about playing it because I watched my brother playing it a lot when we where kids so I felt I half played it even tho I never followed the story lol. I should give it a go now tho that I’m invested in the characters and story.
My favourite thing about the bronte scene is how confident he was until every single person didn't budge after he offered a small fortune and how quicklynhis face turns to fear
The genius of Dutch in the first game is the enigma. Whats only way to improve on that in red dead 2? They make you love him then remind you how his story winds up
Yeah I found myself completely forgetting his actions in the first game that I ended up really liking his character until it hit me in chapter 4 I was like "oh yeah, he's gonna be a villan..."
@@TheSantach nobody is born with an interesting personality, it forms with time and experience. I recon that John became more ruthless and angry as for years he's been fighting for a peaceful life. And as he finally got it in RDR2 epilogue, it was taken away again in RDR1. Which is why he has more of a character, he had a taste of good family life and he is willing to wipe out his old friends and half a country to get it back.
@@nikodemwronowski5185what about the 8 years between the main story and epilogue. Surely 8 years on him on his own defending and proving for his family would toughen him up instead of the 4 years ranching he did . From how John talks about himself in rdr1 it seemed that a younger John should’ve been hothead and ruthless with some morals, akined to Arthur but instead he’s honestly boring, he’s more incompetent and absent than compelling. Character development is evolving a character traits into something new. Rdr1 John and rdr2 john don’t have any similar traits that could evolved into one another. I think it’s more a missed opportunity.
What makes Dutch so well-written is that you can almost never tell if he is lying or being honest. Does he actually care about the gang? Or he merely sees them as expendable means to achieve a goal? Is his plan to escape and live far away peacefully an actual thing? Or he was simply lying to gain the gang's trust? And no matter what you think, both options would perfectly fit into his character. He is pretty much a living countersense. One of the most unforgettable characters in videogame history indeed.
One of the most ironic parts about Dutch is him mocking Colm for working with disposable thugs he doesn’t know the names of yet in Red Dead 1, Dutch does the exact same thing.
If you really look at it, Billy Grey from GTA TLAD was Dutch before Dutch. Johnny was Arthur, Brian was Micah, Jim was Charles. Riding in formation, the motorcycles were the horses. The correlation between these two games, in my mind, is undeniable.
Never thought about that but you're right! You could also make a parallel with Niko Bellic "War is when the young and stupid are tricked by the old and bitter into killing each other.". As Arthur was trying to turn his life around, so did Niko but they were trapped in lawlessness by their past mistakes and family, Dutch and Roman who (involuntarily) forced him to kill the fat russian for the first time on american soil, restarting a cycle of tragic events. GTA IV was my favourites of all the GTA, the scenario was so good, dramatic and realistic like a Scorcese movie and not just a fun parody like the other installments ( I didn't like GTA V's scenario which felt like a step back compared to GTA IV and the red dead series) I fear the loss of scenario quality for future rockstar games now that Dan Houser left the company.
We often hear people say "that movie/book changed my life" well it took me 9 months to save for a cheap lil Harley after playing that DLC and I think I've maybe driven a car a collective 40 hours (if that) ever since. Just feeling what being In a motorcycle club was kinda like in a freakin video game changed the trajectory of my life forever.
That's an interesting perspective. I'm currently doing a couple of videos on GTA 4, with a retrospective coming out in a couple of weeks. But after that I want to revisit both DLCs - I'll keep in mind what you said, thanks.
As someone who never knew the story of RDR1, I had one hell of a time watching Dutch fall. Like Arthur, I liked him at first as a badass gang leader with a moral compass before the story slowly peeled off those charismatic layers. My absolute breaking point was when he decided to help the Native Americans prank the US Army. He was willing to let what little remained of the Wapitis get brutally slaughtered just to attempt to create a diversion.
It's kind of ironic that you actually meet someone similar to Dutch's mindset of holding on. Around Rhodes is a man who wants you to get some items he lost from his old house. Later you find out he was a s catcher, and when you confront him he demands the respect he once had. The bow to the power he once held. When Arthur said that somethings, specifically this job, should die, I could help but see the connection right there. Like Him, outlaw and human catcher are dying occupations, with ragged soul desperate to hold on to them while the world willingly leaving them all to die. I don't know. It was an interesting connection
The botched trolley job threw his decline into high gear not because of a head bump but because he finally saw how close he was to ultimate failure, death with no payout. He was on a razors edge and knew he had to get drastic both to deal with money issues and evade the chaos sewn in Blackwater and even before. Eventually lashing out everywhere was his only solution.
The scene where Micah was convincing Dutch to not go rescue Abigail and Arthur was telling him to go it looked like Dutch had an Angel and Devil on his shoulder telling him what moral road he should head down
If there's one scene showing progression and governance as an enemy Dutch can't beat in this game... it's the scene where him and Arthur enters Saint Denis for the first time. I'ts a depressive, yet very realistic sight, of the rise of the modern era. An era we now live in, in our real lives.
I think he's so dynamic because he's so relatable. I think a lot of us can relate with the feeling of being out of control and it's even harder if we ever had a position of authority or control in our lives even if it was illusory if we had it at one point the feeling of losing it and watching it spiral out of control can be not only heartbreaking but mine shattering. And that's what happens to Dutch. He just slowly watches his world get ripped apart and his family get destroyed and killed. Instead of reflecting on his fault in that he keeps blaming the external world for coming down around him rather than the choices he's making, which is leading his people further and further into chaos. In the end, whether he chose left or right, it's likely that the gang would have crumbled sooner or later. But the fact is he keeps making the wrong choices and he keeps it s acting with pure authority that gets more and more severe and authoritarian rather than listening to the council of his more rational friends. This is what happens when person is in power for too long. In my belief is that they become too intoxicated with their own legend with the concept that they are the leader and they can fix things when in reality. Dutch was only ever the inspiration, but he was never the only leader of the gang. It was always led by all three of them but the further he took control the further out of control. The situation got and that's where you get his tragic flaw. The belief that he can fix things that he alone has a plan. That's what's so beautiful about his storytelling is that it is a perfect rendition of the tragic flaw that leads Dutch from being an anti-hero to a true villain, especially in the first Red Dead redemption where you see his madness come to a full culmination and so it's so amazing to watch that madness to send slowly from the icon of almost and anarchic commune in the style of some old Romani caravan up against the world into an authoritarian and brutal regime that eliminates dissent and uses terror as a tool of control, and it's not entirely his fault as you can see how he was manipulated by people like Micah. But still in the end It is on Dutch for falling in love with his own legend and believing his own hype that led to the downfall of their found family because he stopped seeing them as family and started seeing them as underlings.
Interesting perspective. I agree that the gang would've fallen apart sooner or later - Micah was just the accelerant that fed into Dutch's worst impulses.
Dutch always felt like Walter white. A humble man who cared for his people, and wanted to make money to have a good life, but eventually his ego was his downfall, and like walter, finally accepts why he continued doing the things he did
It is pretty nuts that they made an entire prequel that expanded on eight minutes of dialogue. Dutch is a bad man and a total hypocrite. But he is a compelling force of personality.
i played rdr2 before rdr1 and it was actually chilling to see how much he changed, or rather how much of his true self he showed. in the early game i thought dutch was an incredible character, cheering him on and such, ESPECIALLY during the raid on the braithwaite manor. but as the game went on, it was surreal seeing him slowly become evil, and when i saw him in rdr1 i lost it because like. *wow*
I'm actually a guy who doesn't like change, so I reject it the best I can but them I notice, we can't fight change or gravity or pain as an wise crazy man said, so no matter how much it hurts I adapt to the change or I would get lost as the wise crazy man did.
Solid video! I'm continually impressed by the clips you chose and the voice acting within them. I enjoy the theme of industry and change being such a motivator for Dutch. The outdated gunslinger is a great motif that you see in other westerns like Rango or Unforgiven. I'd recommend watching both of those movies. Engaging video as always.
Dutch's arc reminds me of Jesse James' arc in the 2007 movie _Assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford._ I believe it's only loosely based on Jesse's life and the James gang. Either way it's a movie that was definitely known to someone on the team at Rockstar during development of RDR2, because one of the train robbery missions begins with a cutscene that is nearly a shot for shot replication of Jesse James stopping the money train at the beginning of the movie. The movie isn't as action packed as RDR2, but if you've seen it, it's very hard to ignore the parallels between the 2 gangs, their struggle against the tides of change, and most notably, their charismatic leader's descent into paranoia and self-destruction.
Dutch has never changed, the one that changed was Arthur, who was literally undergoing a redemption arc. He constantly doubted the gang leadership and doing things behind Dutch’s back. In a normal gang he would have been shot. Dutch asked him to either be with him or cut loose, don’t be there and just doubt, this is why he left him to die in the end. The whole John situation is even more insane. He was arrested when everyone else was shot on sight, wasn’t executed by the time they got back from Caribbean, if this does not smell rat I don’t now what does lol only way to clear his name is wait for the law to actually hang him, so he could rescue John knowing he is not the rat. But Arthur had to break him out early because “I felt different” now Dutch has no way to know if he can trust either of them.
Dutch had all the loyalty but not the money. Bronte had all the money but not the loyalty. This is why both characters show the weakness of the other. Another reason to make this one of my favorite games of all time.
he had a lot of money actually, he didn't leave the blackwater money in blackwater he had it stored away near camp, later in the cave. the amount that is in the chest was enough to make a single person rich for years, and would have been enough for them all to escape the law to tihiti
I didn't remember the story of the first red dead because I was so young, so I decided to go in blind...I ended up gettting attached ro the characters and Dutch's fall from grace was genuinely hurtful.
For me it's the constant questioning of if he's evil or not. It's the uncertainty of where he stands and if he is with or against you as a player. I feel for him just as much as I despise him and all those feelings switch from moment to moment. His relationship with Arthur and how he is tge father figure Arthur never got makes the rip between them even more heart wreanching.
Although, sure, van der Linde's decline started way back at the Blackwater ferry job it got much worse after he took that hit on the head in the trolly crash.
One thing not mentioned here is how hypocritical Dutch is in the sense that his tent is the one filled with the most comfort and luxury of the modern world he claims to despise.
i feel like micah and arthur are like representation of dutch personality. theyre like a tail and head on a coin. dutch early on is like arthur cunning, smart, and loyality true to his word but toward near the end of the game he flip to the micah side which is ruthless, opportunist predators, and willing to make a sacrifice for his goal.
Dutch is the type of guy that makes decisions 3 steps ahead. And doesn't change the plan even when the first step barely succeeded and the second step was an atrocity.
It hurts so much that as arther is dying you can see Dutch wants to listen but micah keeps pushing him to a bad side. Arther learned so much from hosea that Dutch sees it as betrayal. Arther tried so hard and Dutch chooses Micah over him and I don’t see how Dutch could do that to his “son”
Enjoyed the video. I once posted a comment on a red dead redemption video and I'll post it here because it makes sense still. "John Asked Dutch why he was there. Dutch responded, "Same as you I suppose." Dutch came to kill Micah. Dutch is very interesting as a villian. If you notice through out the series, he almost never says he is wrong. When he's being strung along by micah, you can see it in Dutch's face that he knows he isn't right but he can't admit that he is wrong. Like When he was watching arthur die on the mountain. Dutch's face was extremely sad. He said "I" several times, but he couldn't say "I'm sorry" because it would have meant that he was wrong. thats why he left Micah then instead of joining him. I guess you could say Dutch leaving the cash was his way of apologizing to John and Arthur. Since there was no other reason for him to do so and he was entirely silent because he couldn't say what he needed to say, because his personality doesn't allow him to admit when he's wrong." However someone esle's comment made me change my view on the latter part of my comment. Dutch left John the money because for Dutch it had never been about the money. It was about doing what he wanted and the money was a means to get people to follow and do his will. Like when Dutch strangled the hispanic old woman. He never bothered to get the gold bar back from her body because He didn't care about the money.
I agree, people for Dutch were assets to build his dream and to continue his fight. Money can't buy loyalty, but vision can. And I'm glad you enjoyed the video 😊
Dutch apologies to Hosea and Arthur for Blackwater in a camp interaction, apologies to Arthur after the Colm debacle in a camp interaction. apologies to everyone after Saint-Denis (which wasn't even his fault, it was Hosea's idea) , and maybe more I'm forgetting.
Thanks for making me think about my place in this day and age and understand that I literally don’t know where tf that is. Kudos to you and the RDR2 team.
I’ve said since 2018 after the game released just how great of a character Dutch van der linde is I’m not going to get into it all again but I’m glad that more and more people share my views on my favourite characters in my favourite games Been a fan of the redemption saga since the beginning in 2010 Outlaws for life
@@Thaicatlove Low Honour Arthur Talks about How he once Robbed an Old man A dutch gave shit saying taking from him was made Arthur no better then Government they were fighting against.
I think the best part of Dutch is the fact that over the course of the story we slowly believe that he does not care about anyone in the game only for it to be revealed that he loved Arthur more than himself and his ego.
Thanks and thanks again! You're giving me a lot value by this video! Watching them are the best way to reflect together after the game is played! Godspeed to you and your work!)
I have two favorite villains. Darth Vader and Dutch Van Der Linde. Dutch is a man who can’t accept the new world and grows more vulnerable throughout the changing times until Micah has influenced him so much that he lives like him in his last days.
i dont think dutch was a manipulator or a facade, i think that he had good intentions throughout but whenever their plans failed instead of taking a step back and laying low he just doubles downwhich exposes their tracks leading the pinkertons especially with micah playing both of them encouraging dutch to take these risky plans. His solutions leads to more problems
Dutch was like Palpatine with the integrity to throw him down the shaft… Hosea was Tarkin, Arthur was Vader, John was Luke. Being outlaws they already live outside conventional morality so you can focus on the inner politics. Because it’s not like we’ll ever getting rid of gangsters and outcasts
I can’t believe I’m just now finding this video, lol. I’ve made so many of these arguments for years in stupid Reddit. Very well done. I’d like to add one thing you didn’t mention and it’s my go-to for Dutch oversimplifiers and haters - Dutch leaving the Blackwater money behind for John. Why? If he’s such a pos like most claim, it makes sense to leave behind the Mcguffin of the entire story? To leave behind his only means of maintaining a lush lifestyle (that the game makes great effort to show you Dutch values) or escape? I never get an answer btw, lol. For me, it’s Dutch’s attempt at redemption for not seeing the truth and not helping Arthur (along with shooting Michal, the more blatant action of this). He’s trying to help John because he knew that was Arthur’s last wish.
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the video 😊 I'm planning to make a different video to discuss how Dutch got to the place be did - ill give you my perspective on this aspect there.
What makes dutch a villain is that he is unable to admit he is wrong or when he fails he takes micah over arthur even though he knew micah was a traitor but he just couldn't admit he made a mistake and like he told john dutch himself is a paradox he knows people can't fight nature or change but dutch's nature is to fight even though is a lost battle
Thanks for this video, I never really played Dead Red Redemption 1, so I played this barely this month. I really wanted Arthur to make Dutch see the light. As Dutch begins to become more paranoid. I wonder if anyone here saw the movie with James McAvoy and Forest Whittaker called "The Last King of Scotland"? When we meet Idi Amin in the movie, he seems charismatic and overall a good guy, but as he starts settling into power he starts feeling the pressure of being a leader, and he becomes paranoid. I think Micah's poison is what does this, he whispers in Dutch's ears the idea of disloyalty. And as he knows that counseling Dutch will lead to Arthur and the others questioning him, he steers him into that paranoia. So I really wanted Dutch to see the light, but by the end he's too fargone and that's sad as hell. We killed Micah, sure, we avenged Arthur, but we permanently lost Dutch. And for what I saw of RDR1, he just fell into madness by that point, and by the end when he talks to John, he's just but a shadow of his former self and just riddled with guilt that he won't admit, because then it would become real in his mind.
I feel like Dutch’s “plan” to escape for a better life was always a lie. Or at least he abounded it not long after the story started. They definitely had enough money to flee way before the events that led to the ultimate downfall of the gang. Yet Dutch continued to risk it all because it was never enough for him. And his real goal was to do as much damage as he could before he was inevitably snuffed out by the government
Dutch is probably the only Twist villain that ever worked on me, I seriously saw him as a father figure, a good man who had good morals... But by the time I got to the mission where he kills Bronte... I started to doubt, just like Arthur, and on Guarma, I started pressing X to doubt even more... And I finally realized what he really was in Chapter 6, he's a master-manipulator who sees himself as exactly what Milton said he thought he was, "The Messiah to lost souls", he's the best villain I've ever seen in media, while Micah is more of your stereotypical "do bad 4 bad" Dutch is the same, but he's able to conceal it with words of grandiour and words of cunning, he's someone even worse than Micah, cause at least Micah openly shows it, but Dutch criticises people for doing the exact same thjng he does, hell, you know about the girl he killed on the Ferry? Heidi Mccort? She wasn't just a random girl, eye witnesses said she's apparently a MOTHER too, so Dutch Orphaned a child, yet he looks down on the O'Driscolls for killing a woman's husband? What's the difference between him and Colm? Well, if you really look deep into his character... The only difference is that he doesn't give his money to people to work for him... So... Does that really make him better...? Or does he just see himself as that through his skewed worldview? The only real difference is that he wants to have as fewer people, and none to pay... He's just as bad as teh people criticizes, he's a hypocrite, and he doesn't really care...
The epilogue story with Evelyn Miller touches on it, Dutch's 'practical' decisions highlight it, and his dialogue hints at it, but his goals and ideology always echoed the very societal constructs that he wished to replace; A hierarchy with a wise and powerful white savior (himself) at the top and everyone else in blissful and grateful subservience. In both games, Natives are just cannon fodder to him and, when he's hyping up Tahiti or New Guinea as potential destinations, he promises dancing girls but also free land ripe for the taking as if those places weren't already inhabited Dutch's disdain for the wealthy exploiting everyone and everything around them often comes across as him believing that he could have done it better, not that it shouldn't have been done in the first place. Where did the dancing girls come from, Dutch? Early English settlers, like John Smith, would fabricate tales of the sexual availability of Native women to entice more Englishmen to colonize the Americas. Dutch's odd promise may have been a reference to that. It could also be referencing the annexation of Hawaii and the overthrow of it's monarchy by the U.S. I may be reading too much into it but, the level of research, and the volume of historical Easter eggs in the making of this game make it hard to believe that it was just random lines and not a hint that Dutch had ambitions of colonization himself.
I don't believe he did though. What he wanted was a land where he could pursue a lifestyle of running and gunning, always fighting, him talking about going to Tahiti or some such were all just carrots on a stick for the gang, or even lying to himself, he could've used that gold to get out and do exactly that but he never did. He stayed behind and rally'd disillusioned natives for nothing more than to keep up his fight against encroaching modernization. You have to consider what Dutch considers his ideal would be when he was younger, which would lineup in the classical era of the west and doing all that entails for outlaws. Dutch found his true nature to be violent, and he seemed to have relished in that in the events of RDR1, and we get the start of that snowballing since the blackwater massacre before RDR2. Seeing it through an anti imperialist lens doesn't add up when his big thing at the end of the first game is how the world has no place for men like him anymore, living wildly.
I feel that Micah is the main reason for the gangs downfall. For all of Dutch’s flaws, the gang was somewhat able to keep him in check, albeit to a lesser degree than preferred. Micah’s bizarre ability to gain Dutch, and ONLY Dutch’s trust and respect, allowed him to influence many of Dutch’s decisions from Chapter 3 onward. Why the gang didn’t execute or excommunicate Micah after, at the least, his attempted raping of Sadie will never not baffle me.
I had the advantage of the first game so in the second game I was like lets see how much he fucks up and ruined johns life and i wasn't disappointed at all i knew he was insane but watching Arthur lose it all made me so sad 😢
Hello there, I also made a video on Arthur Morgan: ua-cam.com/video/j0jRARi7sxk/v-deo.html
are you serious? don't you have any shame??? what's the point of giving a spoiler notice if you are just spoiling it in the title?????? I didn't even watch your video and now i know dutch is the antagonist. what is wrong with you??? why would you do that? why wouldn't you put another title?? why would you spoil the game for me when im just halfway there to the game??? you're just evil.
@@thedarksideofthemoon2 brother the game has been out for years cope harder
Hey just wandering if he is your most memorable villain what about berserk
In his very first scene, Dutch commands a form of charisma and leadership that's very hard to break away from throughout the game, even as his true self continues to reveal itself.
Spot on. We can see how differently the gang members react and struggle with the changes.
@@ViciousTNT I think what makes Dutch such a fascinating and compelling villain compared to many others is how we get to see his own internal struggle with the decisions he makes.
Like, even in the final scene with him and Arthur, Arthur rightly calls him out for his faulty allegiances ('I gave you all I had') and we do see a flash of hesitation from Dutch. But by that point it's too late.
I think that Dutch is gamings equivalent to Walter White. We're led to believe that he changed over the course of the story into a bad man, but upon closer inspection realise this is who he truly was.
@matthewchristou8198 for me I never decided dutch was the enemy, because of his incredible charisma and speech, until the scene were he left Arthur to die you should have seen my face then I was enraged
@@Onezy05 That's a really good comparison; both characters are dark and complex. The folks that cling to Dutch's concussion in the botched bank robbery as the reason for his treachery are probably the same people who would make excuses for real world abusers.
@@A-ds1mt Precisely. At first I also thought that Dutch BECAME a bad man through his idealism constantly failing and the concussion, but then I think that I too was blinded by his charisma.
Rewatching the first chapter of the game again, I then realised that Dutch was always like this, what with the way he kept skirting round what happened in Blackwater that involved the murder of girl.
To use another more extreme comparison, people excuse Dutch's actions the same way they excuse Tony Sopranos actions, despite the fact that he does some horrendous shit. The guy is a racist, womanising murderer and even when he murders his own nephew people still make excuses for his actions just because his charisma is so captivating.
The visible pain on Arthur's face and in his voice when he tries and fails to convince Dutch to go back for Abigail... It's just heartbreaking how he realizes his "father" is completely gone at that point.
Spot on
It's even crazy that Dutch has a fatherly role in Arthur's life considering they were only 8 years apart. Master manipulator.
"He was dead, but I could not see." - part of the lyrics in Unshaken.
@@thecowboy9698”it was there” not “he was dead”
Yeah, in that scene his expression looks like a puppy that was kicked
Seeing the way Dutch led the gang in that Braithwaite Manor mission was a cross between ruthless gangster & a breathtakingly unhinged hero. Just off of his audacity alone made me feel like the Van Der Lindes at that point were no longer just outlaws, they were a family.
Kids were off god damm limit
The sad thing is, he didn't do that for Jack. He did it because he hates southerners, and he hates that they played him.
@@Bacxabergood point. But his audacity & swagger (despite his actual intentions inside of his crazy mind) during the whole mission was enough to galvanize the gang into following him to the manor for what they felt was for a good cause.
That's the scene where you learn why people actually believe in him.
Ngl in the hindsight of multiple playthroughs, I feel like that mission is actually the last time the Van Der Linde gang is united as a family, at least the fighters of the group. Even at the party upon Jack's return, some of the gang sit on the sideline, Dutch and Molly argue with each other then vanish, hell even the Marstons disappear upstairs pretty quick. The lines are already beginning to show, Dutch's madness rearing its head again, they'll never be together as a family again after that evening
The true evil of Dutch isn’t his morals, personal views, or social dilemmas. It’s his ability to take far more than he’s willing to give.
wow you sound so smart
So....Another vanilla villain? And how does selfishness not fall under morals or social dilemmas? Nice pseudo-intellectual comment tho.
I think The truest evil is probably his willingness to kill innocent people
That's like the most basic thing to most villains. The way you wrote it makes it seem like you said something smart but it's a really clasdic thing to make villains unlikable or scared of. What really makes Dutch worse than many is his ability to manipulate people and play them, and charm and way with word makes people trust him easily to the point that till the end you want to believe that he can turn things around
@@kevink1575I absolutely agree with you. That pseudo intelligent shit is annoying as hell, you see it so often like with Breaking Bad fans for example and yet people see it comments like that and get an orgasm because of those "intelligent" and "thoughtful" comments
“You ever hear of Dutch’s boys?!” -Bill Williamson threatening the bounty hunters who had him tied up. Greatest outlaw gang there ever was
"My whole life, all I did was fighting" that hit harder and harder every year I get older
Hits harder when you realize the only person he was fighting was himself. He could’ve saved the lives of so many of his crew members, same with Arthur (if you go bad honor), and John.
It truly helps you understand the “redemption” aspect of the game that John and Arthur faced their fates head on, while Dutch ran away almost all his life. 👍🏾
If my villain doesn’t have a plan, I don’t want them
Tahiti ? again?
"Do I really look like a guy with a plan?" -Joker
@@MeesdeFilmliefhebber And of course Joker very much had a plan, or plans, and intricate at that.
AND FAITH
AND MONEH!!!
Dutch killing an old woman and then carrying unconcious Javier on his shoulder in the same mission highlights the 'duality'. One of the most complex characters ever.
And y'all can see how a lot of people react to his death in RDR1 (those who played it after RDR2).
Exactly!
Now, with RDR1 coming to PC, a lot more people will be able to experience the last moment of Dutch.
@@ViciousTNT Are you gonna play it?
Aye, for sure. Easier to record on the PC as well. Definitely want to cover John and Dutch in more detail
I felt absolutely devastated when Dutch betrayed me in the mill like I was so sure he was gonna help me but when he didn’t I felt such an enormous amount of pain of betrayal I couldn’t believe it.
Ik when he leaves Arthur to die in the mill that was a moment when I realized I didn’t really know who he was anymore
Man I cried for 3 weeks straigh after seein this
in my room “DUTCH I NEED SOME HELP!!”
I gotta give it to Benjamin Byron Davis. The cadence and warmth in his voice when you know it’s a lie still makes you want to believe him.
Aye, he's an absolute legend 🙌
Dutch’s fall from grace was the main reason why the gang collapsed. He decided to trust a man he knew was rotten to the core over his own son. Hosea dying truly changed him he began to feel overwhelmed and Micah was able to manipulate him and bring out his darker side. Dutch puts on a brave face but inside he has no idea what he is doing. Arthur getting TB made it so Arthur couldn’t take on the role of the angel on Dutch’s shoulder who helps him make the morally right and smart decisions. It’s only when Arthur is dying that he realises Arthur is right and he should have trusted Arthur all along. He thought Arthur was disloyal but Arthur was the most loyal of all the gang. If Dutch listened to Arthur perhaps a lot of the bad things that happened to the gang could have been avoided.
The reason why Dutch’s villain arc hits so hard is because of the way he builds you up before he tears it all down, you had so much more to lose with him than a typical villain. The only thing that can hurt you more than your enemies are your friends. You spend the first few chapters bonding with not only him but the entire gang. They become the family that you never had before, and then you have to do everything in your power to keep them taken care of and protected while you watch the only father figure you got to have slowly break down and turn on all of you. Then you keep on giving him your all hoping your making the right choice only to die having to know you were wrong.
Well said ❤
I never played the first RDR so I didn’t know the end of Dutch’s story, I was swept away in the story and I think I felt the way Arthur felt slowly realising what was happening to Dutch and the gang as a whole. Amazing story telling
Well said.
You have to play the first one. It’s age really shows when compared to this new age of games, but it’s still a lot of fun and the story is phenomenal. Luckily it’s a prequel so you haven’t really lost anything story wise by playing this one first, but I highly recommend you play the first game to get the full story
The first one is better imo, I just like the vibe and John Marston more.
@@loganwatson5905 I was not too sure about playing it because I watched my brother playing it a lot when we where kids so I felt I half played it even tho I never followed the story lol. I should give it a go now tho that I’m invested in the characters and story.
My favourite thing about the bronte scene is how confident he was until every single person didn't budge after he offered a small fortune and how quicklynhis face turns to fear
The genius of Dutch in the first game is the enigma.
Whats only way to improve on that in red dead 2? They make you love him then remind you how his story winds up
Great point
Yeah, Dutch in the first game was almost like a supernatural force. 2 humanized him
Yeah I found myself completely forgetting his actions in the first game that I ended up really liking his character until it hit me in chapter 4 I was like "oh yeah, he's gonna be a villan..."
RDR has everything, the best villain, the best protagonists, the best story, the best open world and a lot more.
RDR2 should of had badass John in the epilogue instead of the boring John we had during the story.
@@TheSantach nobody is born with an interesting personality, it forms with time and experience.
I recon that John became more ruthless and angry as for years he's been fighting for a peaceful life. And as he finally got it in RDR2 epilogue, it was taken away again in RDR1.
Which is why he has more of a character, he had a taste of good family life and he is willing to wipe out his old friends and half a country to get it back.
@@nikodemwronowski5185 Get over yourself.
@@nikodemwronowski5185what about the 8 years between the main story and epilogue. Surely 8 years on him on his own defending and proving for his family would toughen him up instead of the 4 years ranching he did . From how John talks about himself in rdr1 it seemed that a younger John should’ve been hothead and ruthless with some morals, akined to Arthur but instead he’s honestly boring, he’s more incompetent and absent than compelling. Character development is evolving a character traits into something new. Rdr1 John and rdr2 john don’t have any similar traits that could evolved into one another. I think it’s more a missed opportunity.
Not really you're just simping
I believed in dutch just as much as Arthur did, and i fell just as hard as he did
Same
What makes Dutch so well-written is that you can almost never tell if he is lying or being honest.
Does he actually care about the gang? Or he merely sees them as expendable means to achieve a goal?
Is his plan to escape and live far away peacefully an actual thing? Or he was simply lying to gain the gang's trust?
And no matter what you think, both options would perfectly fit into his character. He is pretty much a living countersense.
One of the most unforgettable characters in videogame history indeed.
I doubt he even knows himself
First time I played I didn’t even notice he was a villain, only Micah. So charismatic he fooled me
One of the most ironic parts about Dutch is him mocking Colm for working with disposable thugs he doesn’t know the names of yet in Red Dead 1, Dutch does the exact same thing.
If you really look at it, Billy Grey from GTA TLAD was Dutch before Dutch. Johnny was Arthur, Brian was Micah, Jim was Charles. Riding in formation, the motorcycles were the horses. The correlation between these two games, in my mind, is undeniable.
Johnny was John
Never thought about that but you're right! You could also make a parallel with Niko Bellic "War is when the young and stupid are tricked by the old and bitter into killing each other.". As Arthur was trying to turn his life around, so did Niko but they were trapped in lawlessness by their past mistakes and family, Dutch and Roman who (involuntarily) forced him to kill the fat russian for the first time on american soil, restarting a cycle of tragic events.
GTA IV was my favourites of all the GTA, the scenario was so good, dramatic and realistic like a Scorcese movie and not just a fun parody like the other installments ( I didn't like GTA V's scenario which felt like a step back compared to GTA IV and the red dead series)
I fear the loss of scenario quality for future rockstar games now that Dan Houser left the company.
We often hear people say "that movie/book changed my life" well it took me 9 months to save for a cheap lil Harley after playing that DLC and I think I've maybe driven a car a collective 40 hours (if that) ever since. Just feeling what being In a motorcycle club was kinda like in a freakin video game changed the trajectory of my life forever.
That's an interesting perspective. I'm currently doing a couple of videos on GTA 4, with a retrospective coming out in a couple of weeks. But after that I want to revisit both DLCs - I'll keep in mind what you said, thanks.
As someone who never knew the story of RDR1, I had one hell of a time watching Dutch fall. Like Arthur, I liked him at first as a badass gang leader with a moral compass before the story slowly peeled off those charismatic layers. My absolute breaking point was when he decided to help the Native Americans prank the US Army. He was willing to let what little remained of the Wapitis get brutally slaughtered just to attempt to create a diversion.
Yup, his ends always justified his means.
It's kind of ironic that you actually meet someone similar to Dutch's mindset of holding on. Around Rhodes is a man who wants you to get some items he lost from his old house. Later you find out he was a s catcher, and when you confront him he demands the respect he once had. The bow to the power he once held. When Arthur said that somethings, specifically this job, should die, I could help but see the connection right there. Like Him, outlaw and human catcher are dying occupations, with ragged soul desperate to hold on to them while the world willingly leaving them all to die.
I don't know. It was an interesting connection
The botched trolley job threw his decline into high gear not because of a head bump but because he finally saw how close he was to ultimate failure, death with no payout. He was on a razors edge and knew he had to get drastic both to deal with money issues and evade the chaos sewn in Blackwater and even before. Eventually lashing out everywhere was his only solution.
The scene where Micah was convincing Dutch to not go rescue Abigail and Arthur was telling him to go it looked like Dutch had an Angel and Devil on his shoulder telling him what moral road he should head down
If there's one scene showing progression and governance as an enemy Dutch can't beat in this game... it's the scene where him and Arthur enters Saint Denis for the first time. I'ts a depressive, yet very realistic sight, of the rise of the modern era. An era we now live in, in our real lives.
Dutch's Aura is unmatched
My favourite character Rockstar has ever created.
no. Arthur Is
@@JakeDudeIThink Arthurs great but I grew up with John Marston from RDR1. Easily my fav protagonist of all time
I think he's so dynamic because he's so relatable. I think a lot of us can relate with the feeling of being out of control and it's even harder if we ever had a position of authority or control in our lives even if it was illusory if we had it at one point the feeling of losing it and watching it spiral out of control can be not only heartbreaking but mine shattering. And that's what happens to Dutch. He just slowly watches his world get ripped apart and his family get destroyed and killed. Instead of reflecting on his fault in that he keeps blaming the external world for coming down around him rather than the choices he's making, which is leading his people further and further into chaos. In the end, whether he chose left or right, it's likely that the gang would have crumbled sooner or later. But the fact is he keeps making the wrong choices and he keeps it s acting with pure authority that gets more and more severe and authoritarian rather than listening to the council of his more rational friends. This is what happens when person is in power for too long. In my belief is that they become too intoxicated with their own legend with the concept that they are the leader and they can fix things when in reality. Dutch was only ever the inspiration, but he was never the only leader of the gang. It was always led by all three of them but the further he took control the further out of control. The situation got and that's where you get his tragic flaw. The belief that he can fix things that he alone has a plan. That's what's so beautiful about his storytelling is that it is a perfect rendition of the tragic flaw that leads Dutch from being an anti-hero to a true villain, especially in the first Red Dead redemption where you see his madness come to a full culmination and so it's so amazing to watch that madness to send slowly from the icon of almost and anarchic commune in the style of some old Romani caravan up against the world into an authoritarian and brutal regime that eliminates dissent and uses terror as a tool of control, and it's not entirely his fault as you can see how he was manipulated by people like Micah. But still in the end It is on Dutch for falling in love with his own legend and believing his own hype that led to the downfall of their found family because he stopped seeing them as family and started seeing them as underlings.
Interesting perspective. I agree that the gang would've fallen apart sooner or later - Micah was just the accelerant that fed into Dutch's worst impulses.
Beautifully written
In a way, I feel for Dutch. The way he was written he really gives off a vibe of untreated bi polar disorder
yes!!
Late onset bipolar disorder?
Exactly. And the head injury he suffered on the Saint Dennis heist made it all much much worse
@@themagnus2919bot necessary, a lot of people with it really show no signs of it unless put through a lot of stress or when they go through hard times
I think he went into madness right the moment Dutch was betrayed in St Denis trolley
Dutch always felt like Walter white. A humble man who cared for his people, and wanted to make money to have a good life, but eventually his ego was his downfall, and like walter, finally accepts why he continued doing the things he did
Good comparison 🙌
Our time is passed john.
Hell of a dive into Dutch's character. I think you just made one of the best RDR2 video essays
Thank you so much for the kind words ❤️ I'm glad you enjoyed the video
The professional has a much better video on Dutch.
here's hoping that we get a 'Red Dead Revolution' game, set during the end of the civil war.
That would be wild 🙌
@@ViciousTNT sadly, no houser brothers so who knows if it'd be the same
It is pretty nuts that they made an entire prequel that expanded on eight minutes of dialogue.
Dutch is a bad man and a total hypocrite. But he is a compelling force of personality.
They’re in a cult. Dutch’s gang was a cult.
They were not. Though they had different views from the rest of the world, that doesnt mean they are a cult, just a gang of outlaws
i played rdr2 before rdr1 and it was actually chilling to see how much he changed, or rather how much of his true self he showed. in the early game i thought dutch was an incredible character, cheering him on and such, ESPECIALLY during the raid on the braithwaite manor. but as the game went on, it was surreal seeing him slowly become evil, and when i saw him in rdr1 i lost it because like. *wow*
I'm actually a guy who doesn't like change, so I reject it the best I can but them I notice, we can't fight change or gravity or pain as an wise crazy man said, so no matter how much it hurts I adapt to the change or I would get lost as the wise crazy man did.
Solid video! I'm continually impressed by the clips you chose and the voice acting within them. I enjoy the theme of industry and change being such a motivator for Dutch. The outdated gunslinger is a great motif that you see in other westerns like Rango or Unforgiven. I'd recommend watching both of those movies. Engaging video as always.
Thank you 😊
Dutch's arc reminds me of Jesse James' arc in the 2007 movie _Assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford._ I believe it's only loosely based on Jesse's life and the James gang. Either way it's a movie that was definitely known to someone on the team at Rockstar during development of RDR2, because one of the train robbery missions begins with a cutscene that is nearly a shot for shot replication of Jesse James stopping the money train at the beginning of the movie. The movie isn't as action packed as RDR2, but if you've seen it, it's very hard to ignore the parallels between the 2 gangs, their struggle against the tides of change, and most notably, their charismatic leader's descent into paranoia and self-destruction.
Dutch has never changed, the one that changed was Arthur, who was literally undergoing a redemption arc. He constantly doubted the gang leadership and doing things behind Dutch’s back. In a normal gang he would have been shot.
Dutch asked him to either be with him or cut loose, don’t be there and just doubt, this is why he left him to die in the end.
The whole John situation is even more insane. He was arrested when everyone else was shot on sight, wasn’t executed by the time they got back from Caribbean, if this does not smell rat I don’t now what does lol only way to clear his name is wait for the law to actually hang him, so he could rescue John knowing he is not the rat. But Arthur had to break him out early because “I felt different” now Dutch has no way to know if he can trust either of them.
Dutch had all the loyalty but not the money. Bronte had all the money but not the loyalty. This is why both characters show the weakness of the other. Another reason to make this one of my favorite games of all time.
Great comparison
he had a lot of money actually, he didn't leave the blackwater money in blackwater he had it stored away near camp, later in the cave. the amount that is in the chest was enough to make a single person rich for years, and would have been enough for them all to escape the law to tihiti
I didn't remember the story of the first red dead because I was so young, so I decided to go in blind...I ended up gettting attached ro the characters and Dutch's fall from grace was genuinely hurtful.
You deserve one million subscribers man, your content is gorgeous!
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it 😊
The footage is just RDR2 which is a gorgeous game, haha. But I agree the video was really well put together!
Oh shut up
For me it's the constant questioning of if he's evil or not. It's the uncertainty of where he stands and if he is with or against you as a player. I feel for him just as much as I despise him and all those feelings switch from moment to moment. His relationship with Arthur and how he is tge father figure Arthur never got makes the rip between them even more heart wreanching.
Well said
"You can't fight the future don't waste your life trying." -The white shadow
Unless I win
Dutch strongly reminds me of my late father, both in terms of his positive and negative attributes.
Same
Same , that's why I can't even be critical of him . Well written character
Although, sure, van der Linde's decline started way back at the Blackwater ferry job it got much worse after he took that hit on the head in the trolly crash.
You are one of the best writers and creator I've come across. We'll watch your career with great interest
Thank you ❤️ I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Whenever Dutch's mission icon popped up, I knew something either very good or very bad would happen.
One thing not mentioned here is how hypocritical Dutch is in the sense that his tent is the one filled with the most comfort and luxury of the modern world he claims to despise.
He’s more of a cult leader than a father figure
i feel like micah and arthur are like representation of dutch personality. theyre like a tail and head on a coin. dutch early on is like arthur cunning, smart, and loyality true to his word but toward near the end of the game he flip to the micah side which is ruthless, opportunist predators, and willing to make a sacrifice for his goal.
Everytime I see a video of Dutch I wanna play the game again for the third time.
after my 5th, same
Dutch is the type of guy that makes decisions 3 steps ahead.
And doesn't change the plan even when the first step barely succeeded and the second step was an atrocity.
He read a lot of books but never picked up Publilius Syrus: "It is a bad plan that admits no modification."
It hurts so much that as arther is dying you can see Dutch wants to listen but micah keeps pushing him to a bad side. Arther learned so much from hosea that Dutch sees it as betrayal. Arther tried so hard and Dutch chooses Micah over him and I don’t see how Dutch could do that to his “son”
I like how you find out Dutch isn’t who you thought he was at the same time as Arthur
Enjoyed the video. I once posted a comment on a red dead redemption video and I'll post it here because it makes sense still. "John Asked Dutch why he was there. Dutch responded, "Same as you I suppose." Dutch came to kill Micah. Dutch is very interesting as a villian. If you notice through out the series, he almost never says he is wrong. When he's being strung along by micah, you can see it in Dutch's face that he knows he isn't right but he can't admit that he is wrong. Like When he was watching arthur die on the mountain. Dutch's face was extremely sad. He said "I" several times, but he couldn't say "I'm sorry" because it would have meant that he was wrong. thats why he left Micah then instead of joining him. I guess you could say Dutch leaving the cash was his way of apologizing to John and Arthur. Since there was no other reason for him to do so and he was entirely silent because he couldn't say what he needed to say, because his personality doesn't allow him to admit when he's wrong."
However someone esle's comment made me change my view on the latter part of my comment. Dutch left John the money because for Dutch it had never been about the money. It was about doing what he wanted and the money was a means to get people to follow and do his will. Like when Dutch strangled the hispanic old woman. He never bothered to get the gold bar back from her body because He didn't care about the money.
I agree, people for Dutch were assets to build his dream and to continue his fight. Money can't buy loyalty, but vision can.
And I'm glad you enjoyed the video 😊
Dutch apologies to Hosea and Arthur for Blackwater in a camp interaction, apologies to Arthur after the Colm debacle in a camp interaction. apologies to everyone after Saint-Denis (which wasn't even his fault, it was Hosea's idea) , and maybe more I'm forgetting.
he didn't care about the gold bar because back at camp he had a chest full of money. the gold bar would slow him down
Thanks for making me think about my place in this day and age and understand that I literally don’t know where tf that is. Kudos to you and the RDR2 team.
I’ve said since 2018 after the game released just how great of a character Dutch van der linde is I’m not going to get into it all again but I’m glad that more and more people share my views on my favourite characters in my favourite games
Been a fan of the redemption saga since the beginning in 2010
Outlaws for life
Dutch is much more complex then some think Low Honour Arthur tells a pretty interesting story about Dutch.
What story Arthur tells?
@@Thaicatlove Low Honour Arthur Talks about How he once Robbed an Old man A dutch gave shit saying taking from him was made Arthur no better then Government they were fighting against.
I think the best part of Dutch is the fact that over the course of the story we slowly believe that he does not care about anyone in the game only for it to be revealed that he loved Arthur more than himself and his ego.
Dutch doing himself shouldn't surprise me as much as it did but ironically enough in his death he warned John I wished he listened
Thanks and thanks again! You're giving me a lot value by this video! Watching them are the best way to reflect together after the game is played! Godspeed to you and your work!)
Thank you for the kind words, I'm glad you enjoyed the video 😊
I have two favorite villains. Darth Vader and Dutch Van Der Linde. Dutch is a man who can’t accept the new world and grows more vulnerable throughout the changing times until Micah has influenced him so much that he lives like him in his last days.
That's interesting, why Darth Vader is one of your favorites?
i dont think dutch was a manipulator or a facade, i think that he had good intentions throughout but whenever their plans failed instead of taking a step back and laying low he just doubles downwhich exposes their tracks leading the pinkertons especially with micah playing both of them encouraging dutch to take these risky plans. His solutions leads to more problems
Dutch always has a plan and yet his plan always back fire on him
Great video, I can't believe you only have 2.7K subs, that's a borderline crime!
Thank you for the kind words, I'm glad you enjoyed the video ❤
He had mad drip though
It was fire 🔥
Dutch was like Palpatine with the integrity to throw him down the shaft…
Hosea was Tarkin, Arthur was Vader, John was Luke. Being outlaws they already live outside conventional morality so you can focus on the inner politics.
Because it’s not like we’ll ever getting rid of gangsters and outcasts
Dutch has always been my favorite RDR2 character.
He definitely is a well written character who has an interesting story to experience
I can’t believe I’m just now finding this video, lol. I’ve made so many of these arguments for years in stupid Reddit.
Very well done. I’d like to add one thing you didn’t mention and it’s my go-to for Dutch oversimplifiers and haters - Dutch leaving the Blackwater money behind for John.
Why? If he’s such a pos like most claim, it makes sense to leave behind the Mcguffin of the entire story? To leave behind his only means of maintaining a lush lifestyle (that the game makes great effort to show you Dutch values) or escape?
I never get an answer btw, lol. For me, it’s Dutch’s attempt at redemption for not seeing the truth and not helping Arthur (along with shooting Michal, the more blatant action of this). He’s trying to help John because he knew that was Arthur’s last wish.
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the video 😊
I'm planning to make a different video to discuss how Dutch got to the place be did - ill give you my perspective on this aspect there.
What makes dutch a villain is that he is unable to admit he is wrong or when he fails he takes micah over arthur even though he knew micah was a traitor but he just couldn't admit he made a mistake and like he told john dutch himself is a paradox he knows people can't fight nature or change but dutch's nature is to fight even though is a lost battle
in camp dialogue he admits he is wrong multiple times
The only thing he constantly reminds me of is that he got a plan
When I start the game over for the dozenth time. I like Dutch in the beginning even knowing what he does to Arthur. That’s a great fucking character!
Honestly, Dutch would be a great CEO today.
Haha, great point 😄
@@ViciousTNThe’d do well in court too
100%
omg such a good video! i was already a big fan of ur last essay about arthur. keep it going!
Thank you so much ❤️ I'll do my best
Thanks for this video, I never really played Dead Red Redemption 1, so I played this barely this month. I really wanted Arthur to make Dutch see the light. As Dutch begins to become more paranoid. I wonder if anyone here saw the movie with James McAvoy and Forest Whittaker called "The Last King of Scotland"? When we meet Idi Amin in the movie, he seems charismatic and overall a good guy, but as he starts settling into power he starts feeling the pressure of being a leader, and he becomes paranoid. I think Micah's poison is what does this, he whispers in Dutch's ears the idea of disloyalty. And as he knows that counseling Dutch will lead to Arthur and the others questioning him, he steers him into that paranoia. So I really wanted Dutch to see the light, but by the end he's too fargone and that's sad as hell. We killed Micah, sure, we avenged Arthur, but we permanently lost Dutch. And for what I saw of RDR1, he just fell into madness by that point, and by the end when he talks to John, he's just but a shadow of his former self and just riddled with guilt that he won't admit, because then it would become real in his mind.
wow, what a goddamn video. amazing bro
Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed it 😊
bro you did so well on that Thumbnail
The thkng about Dutch is that he lies to everyone including himself it is only in rdr 1 is Dutch honest to himself
Dutch turned into a villian in the epilogue and in RDR1.
There is a hell of a story to tell about how he got like that.
For sure 🙌
this video is stellar, well done
Its amazing how well written this game is
During that intro I thought there was going to be a comedic cut to you saying "these are things the first game has"
Missed opportunity 😄
I feel like Dutch’s “plan” to escape for a better life was always a lie. Or at least he abounded it not long after the story started. They definitely had enough money to flee way before the events that led to the ultimate downfall of the gang. Yet Dutch continued to risk it all because it was never enough for him. And his real goal was to do as much damage as he could before he was inevitably snuffed out by the government
Well said. He wanted to have his stand against the changes no matter the cost.
Best character in video game. Even better than John & Arthur. He is different from every single villain I've ever seen.
He's definetely one of the best 👌
I just released a video on Micah Bell if you want to check it out: ua-cam.com/video/xeuoDGSu8eQ/v-deo.html
Dutch is probably the only Twist villain that ever worked on me, I seriously saw him as a father figure, a good man who had good morals... But by the time I got to the mission where he kills Bronte... I started to doubt, just like Arthur, and on Guarma, I started pressing X to doubt even more... And I finally realized what he really was in Chapter 6, he's a master-manipulator who sees himself as exactly what Milton said he thought he was, "The Messiah to lost souls", he's the best villain I've ever seen in media, while Micah is more of your stereotypical "do bad 4 bad" Dutch is the same, but he's able to conceal it with words of grandiour and words of cunning, he's someone even worse than Micah, cause at least Micah openly shows it, but Dutch criticises people for doing the exact same thjng he does, hell, you know about the girl he killed on the Ferry? Heidi Mccort? She wasn't just a random girl, eye witnesses said she's apparently a MOTHER too, so Dutch Orphaned a child, yet he looks down on the O'Driscolls for killing a woman's husband? What's the difference between him and Colm? Well, if you really look deep into his character... The only difference is that he doesn't give his money to people to work for him... So... Does that really make him better...? Or does he just see himself as that through his skewed worldview? The only real difference is that he wants to have as fewer people, and none to pay... He's just as bad as teh people criticizes, he's a hypocrite, and he doesn't really care...
Amazing video ! 😄 Thank you !
I'm so glad you enjoyed it. Thank you 😊
As a character, he's goated. Micah is a great written character aswell
True, I've been thinking about writing one about Micah as well
I though Dutch was a protagonist until rdr1 events
You still thought he was a protagonist at the end of rdr2?
The epilogue story with Evelyn Miller touches on it, Dutch's 'practical' decisions highlight it, and his dialogue hints at it, but his goals and ideology always echoed the very societal constructs that he wished to replace; A hierarchy with a wise and powerful white savior (himself) at the top and everyone else in blissful and grateful subservience.
In both games, Natives are just cannon fodder to him and, when he's hyping up Tahiti or New Guinea as potential destinations, he promises dancing girls but also free land ripe for the taking as if those places weren't already inhabited Dutch's disdain for the wealthy exploiting everyone and everything around them often comes across as him believing that he could have done it better, not that it shouldn't have been done in the first place.
Where did the dancing girls come from, Dutch? Early English settlers, like John Smith, would fabricate tales of the sexual availability of Native women to entice more Englishmen to colonize the Americas. Dutch's odd promise may have been a reference to that. It could also be referencing the annexation of Hawaii and the overthrow of it's monarchy by the U.S.
I may be reading too much into it but, the level of research, and the volume of historical Easter eggs in the making of this game make it hard to believe that it was just random lines and not a hint that Dutch had ambitions of colonization himself.
I don't believe he did though. What he wanted was a land where he could pursue a lifestyle of running and gunning, always fighting, him talking about going to Tahiti or some such were all just carrots on a stick for the gang, or even lying to himself, he could've used that gold to get out and do exactly that but he never did. He stayed behind and rally'd disillusioned natives for nothing more than to keep up his fight against encroaching modernization. You have to consider what Dutch considers his ideal would be when he was younger, which would lineup in the classical era of the west and doing all that entails for outlaws. Dutch found his true nature to be violent, and he seemed to have relished in that in the events of RDR1, and we get the start of that snowballing since the blackwater massacre before RDR2. Seeing it through an anti imperialist lens doesn't add up when his big thing at the end of the first game is how the world has no place for men like him anymore, living wildly.
Beautiful writing! Love your videos
Thank you for the kind words ❤️ I'll do my best so it's worth sticking around.
I feel that Micah is the main reason for the gangs downfall.
For all of Dutch’s flaws, the gang was somewhat able to keep him in check, albeit to a lesser degree than preferred.
Micah’s bizarre ability to gain Dutch, and ONLY Dutch’s trust and respect, allowed him to influence many of Dutch’s decisions from Chapter 3 onward.
Why the gang didn’t execute or excommunicate Micah after, at the least, his attempted raping of Sadie will never not baffle me.
oh wow we never knew that 😨😱😐
A fool fights the incoming storm. A wise man rides it. Dutch was a fool.
I had the advantage of the first game so in the second game I was like lets see how much he fucks up and ruined johns life and i wasn't disappointed at all i knew he was insane but watching Arthur lose it all made me so sad 😢
We're now as used to living in the modern day Dutch and the gang so righteously feared, as they were when living in the Industrial Age
My top 3 villains, Joker, Dutch Van Der Linde, Ghostface
Great picks! I recently did a video on villains where I covered both Dutch and The Joker - feel free to check it out
Whats crazy is that dutch occasionally slips up and shows his true colors on accident(he sometimes says "I" instead of we or us)