Crime and Punishment: Star Citizen’s Law System | Star Citizen 4K
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2022
- Following the Inside Star Citizen episode talking about SPK and potential improvements to the in-game crime system, this video explores why it’s important to balance risk and reward for all players in Star Citizen. The video is set against some gameplay and cinematic footage from Star Citizen.
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This sums my own feelings up perfectly!
The only thing that the crime system (in its' current form) will actively dissuade is law abiding players interest in playing at all.
As with most of their systems, the Law system can be needlessly heavy handed and insanely forgiving but in all the wrong places.
I hope we'll see improvements at some point
Agreed.
I was wondering if there could be a system of imprisonment deterrent insurance? I.e. I purchase a number (which is prominently displayed on the outside of my ship or suit) that indicates how many real days the criminal will be spending in jail should they commit a crime against me. Sure, blow up my ship with a "30" on the outside, but you'll be spending 30 (real) days sitting in the game's prison. Curious if they'd do it a second time? I guess that means that there has to be a system of private prisons and bounty hunters?
Excellent video. The footage is outstanding, and your thoughts well reasoned. The 4K really comes through despite UA-cam's compression.
Thanks Twilly :)
The battle between pvp and pve always makes me chuckle. Both sides say the other side is toxic. Both sides say the other side isn't seeing their point. How about everyone just wants to play their own way and sometimes that causes conflict. Just like in real life.
The point trying to be made however, as I see it, is that if SC is trying to be a simulator, then the consequences for actions need to more accurately mimic real life.
In real life people can't just drive their car in circles around a mall shooting everyrhing that moves. There would be fast and dire consequences involved.
When there is profit to be made, criminal activities will abound. This is realistic and shouldn't be discouraged.
On the other hand, blatant death and destruction for no reason other than "it's what I enjoy" should be dealt with swiftly and severely, through in game means.
well said
Yup, I often find the same thing. And that's tough for somebody like me who sits somewhere in the middle, and just hope for a balanced game!
About time to bring it back up. The system definitely needs tuning and making it impossible to clear the sentence logged off. Consequences will make the game better by a well balanced ruleset (parking on lawn LOL) in combination with a prison-timer counting down logged on online-time!!
I wonder if it would make people feel more comfortable if a bad thing happened to them, if the player who did the bad thing also had a bad thing happen to them
That sounds like eye for an eye… Doesn’t really actually sound like justice. Not to forget to mention that often glitches cause people to get crime stats so forcing them to deal with prison is complete bullshit
Very thoughtful video, thank you for this.
I think Star Citizen's current law system is a joke. A parking infraction is something so minor that it should be paid from your mobiglass and be done with it. Multiple homicide should have some severe consequences and I'm not sure whether it should be removable by hacking some console at Kareah. Unless they add a PvP mission to SPK like "restore most recent backup" that brings back all crimestats that were hacked out of existence in the last 24 hours or so. That would give people something to fight for or against...
That said, I very rarely get attacked by other players, and I don't recall ever being shouted at in game chat.
I quite like the SPK changes though, at least it encourages criminal and bounty hunter players into one location.
@@Farrister Oh, I think the SPK changes are great for those that like a good fight! But there are also those that don't really like a good fight. I suspect the seal clubbers will always go where the seals are (i.e. not to SPK or Pyro later).
I quite like minor infractions having a fine and a one-hour time to pay them (or be forgiven if it was an accident the harmed player was ok with) and you can do it from a mobiglass anywhere crimes can be reported (there's your parking ticket). Heck, some might not even have timers, effectively "warnings" that don't escalate.
Misdemeanors should have the same timer to go and turn yourself in at a security station, pay a fine, and possibly be detained for a short time (there's your "stole a sweetroll" or "hit someone with with a greycat" crimes).
Felonies get you detention time upon capture/death and felony jail-time should primarily scale to how much it inconveniences other players. Stole a Archimedes for a joyride? 20min you can work off in 5. Blew up someone's fully-loaded and crewed Idriss in cold blood? Boy, I hope you like mining or got some friends to get you out, because the Man wants you _staying_ inside. Consistency could factor in too: first-time felons could get off easy, this was a taste. Repeat-offenders see a multiplier.
If a infraction isn't paid/forgiven or you accumulate a large number of them, you get an additional misdemeanor, and if _that_ isn't dealt with you get a minor felony charge. The point of the misdemeanor is to make you inconvenience yourself to deal with it and be accountable. Criminals, of course, can just ignore this and let it rack up so long as they don't have to go near security or get caught. Additionally, you should probably get a warning upon logging out of payable crimestats, so you don't park on the wrong spot, get a infraction, log off and immediately get tackled by the cops for the felony it turned into over time. It should probably pause under some circumstances as well, like logging off in an area where infractions could not be paid.
There is a TON of room for fun and engaging immersion in this way of handling things. Everything from a "jailbird culture" of those who are in often and have tricks and know the system, to getting middlemen with low crimestats to sneak things around for dead-drops to get around crimes, to required non-lethal-only bounty hunter missions to chase down people that owe a lot of money but haven't actually committed a felony worth jailtime, so you just have to drag them to a security office and it might just be a matter of giving them a ride (or escalate when _you_ turn out to be their first felony).
So much opportunity to improve things :)
Great vid! Touches on a delicate subject. I like that CIG planned for players to enjoy their experience on both sides of the law. But I do agree with the punishment not matching the severity of the crime(s). I'm betting Klescher sentences will be adjusted further down the game's development. Thanks for the time and effort you put into making this video, Farrister!
Thanks Snaggletoof :)
the silver lining for me and the spk/prison changes coming is:
at least P.O. should be clear more often.
Let's hope!
As a "Care Bear" It is wild wild west in space. Due to it being in Alpha there have been many times I've gotten a CS that I felt was unjust. So yes, needs to be fun for all. yes, it's just a game. So, like it or not. If you don't like the Games mechanics you could choose not to play. But we choose to play be coz no matter how good or bad things are we enjoy this game & must take it for what it is. Good & bad alike.
We do! But it doesn't mean we can't think about how to make it better ;-)
@@Farrister Agreed ! Better Together.
Excellent content. Appreciate your Klescher research.
Haha thank you
The reason why games have un-immersive systems like invulnerability in safe-zones (instead of just turning off weapons) , is the simple fact that there is no real way to punish a player for their misdeeds. You can cause them minor to medium level inconveniences, but they will never equate to the same level of time and effort spent trying to legally earn money and then having it all wasted by toxic player interaction. CIG needs to understand that and make the necessary changes.
Why do you conflate legal players with non-PvP? I can be a drug trafficker that avoids all PvP, and then a legal law enforcement players comes and blows up my ship. Do you see that in the same way you see a pirate blowing up a miner?
I referred to the example in the video. I don't support non-PvP in SC (PU). I came to the PU looking forward to being held up. All I got is people killing me during landing/takeoff. I asked one of them why? How is this enhancing their gameplay? Is there any profit in it for them? Their reply was basically because they can.
We are eons away from NPC policing effectively. It takes them 1hr to even realize we are there (I exaggerate out of frustration).
Ideally law enforcement should never blow you up out of the blue, so PvP Pirates holding up a ship is OK. PvPers killing you out of the blue without adding to gameplay is just punishing players not doing the same.
Ah yes, to shoot other players whilst they can't fight back.... The hallmark of the true ace
This is so excellent to point out what the problem with player behaviour is in the game right now. I would like to slap into the criminals face as well as in CIG's faces. There are plenty of consequences wich seemed to be unbalanced as well as there are "workarounds" for consequences. It is OK to have PVP and pirate and criminal gameplay but on the other hand a new player also wants to have low risk gameplay as not the only implemted gameplay but as well. CIG would I like to ask to show us how we could have a meeting on aberdeen without disturbances by unlawful gameplayers...for example. Where are the Low risk "Safe Zones" CIG wanted to implement for us - it feels only Landing Zones are secured areas. No UEE patrols outside of those Landing Zones on moons like Aberdeen when you as a single player wants to go mining for example. That makes me a bit sad.
And those said sentences from prmoinent PVP players that Non-PVP-Gameplay wouldn't produce satisfying feelings - that is def. wrong and gives the situations more biased and a salty touch. Even the Non-PVP-Gameplay makes so much fun.
But the big GAP is there at the End of the day: CIG, please make your homework, please unbias the PVP to Non-PVP gameplay, please declare some Safe-Zones on moons. Please do more weight on consequences for lawful and unlawful gameplay.
Thanks Mr. Farrister - excellent.
Greetings and o7
Thank you, and I'm glad you enjoyed! It's just a question of finding the right balance for everybody, and at the moment it feels a bit skewed
Always love the videos. Keep it coming.
Thanks, will do!
I'm going hipster on this and say that I already agreed with you before this video got out. There's a Spacetomato Podcast featuring you and I think Avenger one, talking about pvp, piracy and laws. you should be fined for parking wrongly, and not thrown into jail (nice bit at the end, btw).Stanton isn't supposed to be lawless, BUT it's also corporatin ruled, mostly. so stricter rules on hurston for "disturbing the lawn" would make sense.
Haha yes, a lot of my thoughts were covered on that podcast :D although I got heavily criticised after the event by some viewers for not having a webcam
@@Farrister yeah, really hated not seeing you on spotify lol
love this
when he mention days of mining to get a good profit but the criminal gets a few hours to serve when they shoot down your cargo.....yeah the timer needs to increase big time. along with them running to grim hex and server hop so that you cant get your sweet revenge due you cant track them any more
Just balance the consequences for everyone!
@@Farrister I'm honestly surprised you replied to this comment Farrister especially since how dumb it was when I was sleep deprived typing it down. if you do see this second one is it possible you can do a Hercules A2 Review with comparison on top of it with the hammer head? if not the A2 review alone be happy with.
@@dimitrilax3612 I will add to the wishlist!
I see high security space as being a high difficulty PVE zone. Imagine being interdiction and scanned by UAEE. Every station has gladius patrols like olisar and the mining hubs have them too. Anywhere you can refuel in the system is guarded. This meant to starve the inexperienced criminal and reduce crime. In the station the are 1 or 2 comm black zone where you can refuel but there dangerous
And then, on the flip side, some areas that are completely lawless, that are probably more profitable but risky locations!
I got a 27 hour prison sentence last night…didn’t know that was a thing now. Didn’t it use to me max like 7 hours!?
I'm hoping we're talking about in-game...
I feel that crime system in any game is a bit difficult to implement. You want people to suffer consequences for breaking the law, but also want to keep it reasonable so that it remains a viable gameplay loop. I feel that Stanton being a high-security system should have heavier security presence along the common routes (known mining zones on planets, to the nearby refineries), and lesser presence along farther mining zones (Aaron Halo, for instance ... it's impossible to police the entire belt). As for punishment, I think that if they increase the time based on the crime committed (counter based on homicide, or destruction of property's value [so more quant / bigger ship = longer punishment]), that could make the punishment feel suitably severe while also making that jail-break a very sensible option.
Additionally, the player bounties should logically go higher as more crimes are committed, rather than being stuck at a high value. This would make PvP a lot more engaging as more people would want to cash in on the kill, while the murderer gets more people to fight. Also, because of the higher bounty, they have a lower number of safe spaces and might consider jumping to Pyro instead... but I guess then it could then become a question of jurisdiction. Would a bounty in Stanton be valid in another lawful / lawless system?
About the policing part. I really hate it when a Hurston cop asks me to pull over and hold still while he scans me ... all the time while I am already busy fighting 3 pirates!? Shouldn't the cop instead focus on fighting the pirates first? That too when we are allied with the Bounty Hunter's Guild and have a good standing with the local security authorities.
I agree, it's such a tough balancing act. That's why I'd use location as the differentiator - 'safe' space, and 'risky' space (with varying degrees between). But yeah, the amount of times I've been scanned for illicit cargo in a ship that doesn't carry cargo...
@@Farrister lol yeah. Imagine the cop finding the stealth fighter/bomber in the middle of the fight, to check if they are carrying any illegal cargo.
Back in the game Freelancer (another CR title), they had these "Junkers" in small fighters who would fight you for 1 unit of scrap metal in your cargo hold, totally ignoring the fact that you were in the biggest baddest fighter in game, who could sit and fight the game's battleships. AI logic gives us so much fun.
100% agree. The game, in it’s current form requires a huge amount fixing in all areas. Crime stats are one of them. I wonder how many of the actual game devs actually play the game to experience what the pledges do? Seems like not a lot… you would think that they would at least be watching videos such as yours to understand the main gameplay issues we all continually experience.
Thanks for the level headed and reasonable take. Had to shake my head at the ree/rant/knee jerk reaction on one of the info runners videos
I think lots do, and it's always the question of how much work do you invest in fixing things now, versus investing in the longer term of the game
@@Farrister I work in an area that has some software Dev to it and you really learn to appreciate the good enough to last till you can get round to it standard.
I love your videos but I’m also now getting really into Elite Dangerous. Do you play ED? Any chance of ED content?
I've never tried ED, I know they had an Exodus of players come across to Star Citizen a year or 2 back. What's your thoughts on it?
@@Farrister I’m amazed with the size and scope of Elite Dangerous, and I’m surprised how good Odyssey and their on foot stuff is after having heard a lot of negative things. It’s much better than I expected. I still think Star Citizen has more detail and better ships, but the way ED players marvel at what Star Citizen does better, I marvel at what ED does better.
Wonderful video, I also think if the player leaves the games when they are in jail then the timer should stop and only resume when they log back in
I think there's a balance to be found - that would be pretty sucky gameplay for a criminal all the time!
Good discussion to have. The punishment system needs to be adjusted to be appropriate, such as the parking on the grass point. I have tried all aspects of SC since I started playing which includes the personal missions so crime goes with that but its also an AI crime so doesn't get people overly emotional. I completely concur with the danger should be more prominent depending on where you choose to go (Jumptown should be dangerous and exciting but its completely your choice to go there so be prepared and be realistic). I also think the risk/reward should match this. When Pyro arrives and is the expected lawless minefield I'd like to think that significant financial reward would also go with your choice to go there.
I agree, I think that would be a good balance
Prison simulator, err I mean star citizen is an amazing game (another great video, love the very end btw). When I end up in Klescher that's my cue to log off either go to bed or be a productive member of real life society! 🙃
haha
One time my game crashed while i was flying by a station.
A cop hailed me and wanted to scan the ship.
In the meantime i was on my windows screen cause the game froze but let me fly along for some .
I got fined 16k for not stopping .
Oof
Hey you grass parking criminal! 🤣 Just thought I'd throw that jokingly out there. I'm like you and generally a law abiding character, but I've spent my time in Klescher. Usually it was for accidentally letting my guns keep firing during that big battle over by Microtech and someone crossed my stream of fire and got shot. I didn't have time to hack my crime status down before the event was over at the time. So I just took the sentence. You did a great video, and I will always check them out. Take care my friend, fly safe and I'll see you in the verse.
Thanks Koron, in the rare time I've been, I've also just done the sentence!
@@Farrister Me too! I tried to do one of the jobs in there, but couldn't find where it was, so I just sat at the tables and served my time.
I would like to know what the stats are about people going to jail and just logging off, I know that’s basically what I do now. If it is super high percentage I think CIG should consider putting a slightly different twist on crimes against players that time doesn’t count down when you are logged out. At the same time that would kill PvP so it would need to be done later down the road or maybe just at certain event locations like SoO where there isn’t a criminal related quest.
alternatively, once Pyro is released, going to prison could be something that only happened in Stanton, that way PvP wouldnt die, it would just move to another system - and maybe even be encouraged?
I think there are ways to design systems that encourage it - in different places, to focus PvP in more PvP locations. Not to make it impossible outside of that, but also to have meaningful consequences for players who choose to engage in unlawful actions in highly patrolled space
@@Farrister Absolutely. How do you see the 'lawlessness' of pyro shaping up? Do you think it's likely that PvPing may go without consequence in lawless systems?
@@fredbjorksten416 without some changes, no, I think a lot of combat would still happen in Stanton, just because players who want to kill other players will find it easier to find people
Parking violations, imo should be x amount for a s1 ship, x amount a size 2 ship and so on. acumulate more than x amount in unpaid fines, you get a cs1 status, and could no longer buy ship/fps gear from shops in legal places to have some of your rights revoked until you paid your fines. Cant pay? submit for incarseration at the fine terminal to get taken to klecher and start doing your time without having to die first. There should also be work terminals where broke people could go to and get taken to lets say a mine somewhere, to hand mine for money, and a terminal there to take them back again, so we finally could have the ability to sell off all inventory items/stock components that way, new players screwing up somewhat wont be totally stranded, and the more experienced players could keep a tidier inventory
I like that idea of parking violations - pay the fine first, and the 'crime' is not paying the fine.
This what I love about yhe verse' its like forrest gumps box of choccolate at times, and some times you have those days where you crash your ship or get pirated and then theres over when you find the perfect quant gold mine and rake in the space dollars. And some days you meet amazing people and have soem great adventures and others you just solo chill.....i really get swepped away by the variety and how the verse really rights its own stories.
There are a lot of great people out there in the community!
As the person whose private parking space was well and truly violated, I care not that you did your time, I shall swear vengeance on you and your descendants for all time! /S ;)
Thanks for the wonderful video
Haha, felony parking violation :D
Most people misunderstand PvP to mean criminals attacking lawful players. But you can be a PvE criminal that doesn't want to fight players. Or a PvP law enforcement contractor. Legal and illegal has nothing to do with PvP versus PvE.
Agree!
It will be nice to see what the next iteration of bounty hunting will be like. That may help occupy some of the ones who just want to see the world burn……maybe.
Maybe...
Imo repeat offenders needs longer jailtime, and jail shouldn't be so easy to escape. I've always said that CIG needs to put
some type of alien predator in the tunnels around the prisons located underground. And people like me, that at times has
a FF accident when an idiot AI runs infront on my weapon during missions, should be able to pay a fine.
It'll be interesting to see if and how it changes in the future
My issue with this all is I just end up character resetting or logging off for the night and logging on the next day to not be in prison. Half the time I end up in prison because of glitches or game breaking things, they really need to fix it! I can’t even mine in the prison because it glitches out so all the time I spent trying to get out quicker legitimately was all wasted, in the end character resetting or logging off for the night is what I do every time now
Yup...
Every time I’ve gone to jail it glitches and I am unable to mine so I just log off
To be honest for lots of players it's the easiest option
SC needs in-game police that are dangerous and hunt high crime stat players near any of the 4 worlds in Stanton.
Personally, I'd go for that...
I made a small mistake. Came inside a bunker to colect my seconf package for dellivery and found guards being shooted by someone else. Then I shot that one and imediatelly got Crime Lvl 3
Ended up paying 1:30 hrs because of a couple of random NPC wyho came across my laser while mining. None of that was close to be fair. What was worst: I didnt get my lawyer and a call.
I agree with your points. I hope they take advice like this into consideration with their rework of the prison system in the game. You shouldn't have to spend time in jail for a parking violation. With the NPC ships becoming more capable, they could just send a cutlass blue after you and make you pay a fine or then go to prison instead of just going straight there. Also, you're sentence timer should stop if you log off. Players shouldn't be able to go on an all night crime spree, log off then start the day fresh like nothing happened.
As for the sentence timer, I think that would be a challenge, as players would just afk instead of logging off. But yeah...
Wow Farrister you really did it this time because that grass was fermented by the purest of PVP’er 😭 tears!😝
Let's hope not!
break the law do the time. NPC law enforcement needs to be and act realistically. It needs to make breaking the law a pain in the ass for players that decide to do it. And there needs to be a way of reporting players that do break the law.
And have "lawless" systems in the future, like Pyro to give people who want chaos their fill
I see a lot of people complaining about griefing but in the weeks i've been playing this game i've hardly ever found griefers to be as present as people say they are.
Occasionally, i've been targeted around grimhex, but i expect that to happen at grimhex.
I've been "griefed" far, far more often by teleporting NPCs that appeared behind me and unloaded half a mag in my craniun in a splitsecond.
Again, i haven't been playing for much, but i think people might be blowing this out of proportion, star citizen pales in comparison to any other multiplayer game i've played in the matter of griefing.
People over use and abuse the word itself. in star citizen "griefing" is when someone does anything to you that you don't want to happen.
Logically any gamer understands this isn't the right use of the word based off of every other game you ever played but logic dosnt apply here in the verse when it's about pve vs pvp
It is rare tho like you said people just don't understand the difference between pvp and activily trying to ruin someone's day. It's all lumped into the same category.
The care bears (people who try to stand on moral high ground and want only pve to prevail unless heavy role play is involved ) are the craziest people you will meet in SC. They literally want you to have to wait over 6 full hours in prison because you attacked them. Read the comments lol. They sre not what SC is about SC is a verse for everyone and the verse is in conflict aka pvp. It's never going to go away and the sooner these jabrones can understand that the sooner we can move forward.
It's in alpha they will have to wait to have their peaceful star system. Because cureently crusader is for the good and the bad.
Now what's more accepting and understanding then that? 🤔 idk but apparently a game for everyone is not enough it's got to be their game.
There are griefer orgs around that usually just stream snipe and disrupt community events. They don't show up during regular gameplay.
@@AC1D3URN the problem with current pvp is simply that there is (almost) no reward exept the experience itself on the crimimal side, and that makes people who attack others for no reason other than their own amusement seem like the usual griefer. If those players at least attempted to extord their target or left unwilling opponents alone it would be fine, but more often than not they act like psychopaths shooting helpless targets, and the victim carries all the risk and gains nothing out of it. Of course there are all kinds of pvp players, not all act like children smashing their neighbours sandcastle on the beach for giggles, but right now it feels that way far too often.
@@Gnarfendorf I think its not as bad smashing a neighbors sand castle. There has to be some level of awareness that if you are taking a risk in the game you should appropriately plan out your defense. I'm not promoting players going around killing randomly at will, that is inevitable but its certainly not psychopathic a person who does such things could very well easily be a well rounded person in real life there seems to be this idea of dragging complex human behavior into a virtual world of anonymity and applying it to your aggressors as a way to invalidate, be little and shame as if these people are directly in your physical reality hurting you with malice in their heart.
I understand that its human nature to want what you expect to believe in what you were sold on. But there is a reality here that this game openly caters to both sides and that is the dynamic of this verse we are playing in. Players have many choices to help them out with avoiding pvp up to an extent it. What it all really hinges on though is how far is the PVE'er going to actually SIM out their experience. This is the only option you have, CIG has stated over and over that the way to solve PVP problems is with PVP solutions.
Either that or you can take the very little effort that it takes to watch some youtube and practice what they are teaching in offline arena commander and instantly leap over all the other players who choose not to and have little to no chance of beating you in a duel. That is honestly how easy it is to get a leg up in the pu .. the choice is yours.
before I got I'm going to give you an example of something that happened tonight where pve worked with pvp to solve a "Griefing" problem.
3 guys set up ballista's at bezdek on Ariel. They baited 1 player in chat who was trying to help save them. That player didn't lose his mind, he certainly spoke his mind to the group and promptly organized a group of concerned citizens and myself to help send them to the slammer. I a red player with cs5 work with blues to achieve a common goal we solved and pvp problem with a pvp solution. we didn't try and change the game to make it so that the players who decided to make that trap couldn't do that. we didn't want' to send them to prison for 7 hours the 20 mins was good enough they didn't get out and do that again .
The mindset of SC casuals needs to shift if for every inch we take towards achieving the actual goals and desires of cig in the realm of pvp support is met with ban wagon hopping videos such as this and truly disconnected ideas from the over arching goal/game cig wants to make.
@AC1D3URN The "learn to PvP better" argument is really empty. If everybody applied that, there would still be a skill mismatch, especially when there's also a ship mismatch (it's much harder to fight in a Freelancer, than a Gladius, that's why you see most PvP players using an Arrow or Gladius, and not a Freelancer). The top 1% might be able to pull it off, but by definition, 99% of people can't be in the top 1%. The problem isn't PvP - PvP should always remain a key part of Star Citizen. The problem right now is that players can't make meaningful choices (other than not to play), and that the consequences of action are not equal across all players. Like you say, Star Citizen aims to cater for all types of player, but right now there's severe consequences for non-combat players who are attacked, but no consequences for the attacker. In more risky space, that's probably OK (risk/reward), but right now there is ONLY risky space as the meaningful lawful protections don't exist in Stanton yet.
You need to take a break from assuming that people who don't love shooting other people are "casuals" or "unskilled", and engage with the fact that developers have repeatedly said that Star Citizen is not going to be a no-consequence PvP free-for-all in every system. Sorry to disappoint you, but that's not this game.
Yea I was not at all very happy going to prison when I was seemingly attacked by a player that in fact was law enforcement that had asked me to stop for a scan but because the alert system is about as obvious as a light under the chair, I did not catch that alert and decided to fire back and because these AI are absolutely bad asses I died in short order!
Haha, brutal
Just one Prison in the system? That doesn't make sense, and there aught to be different lvls of security and activity within a Prison Establishment, that reflect the type of Prison one is in. CIG, if yer watching this video and reading these comments, please think of placing other Prisons elswhere in Stanton System, and different lvls of security and activity that reflects the nature of the establishment.
Interesting!
Tarkov isn't pvp only... it's also populated with a.i. ...
Cheeky breeki
There really needs to be more consequences for "illegal" activities in SC. I've had ships take 8k aUEC or more in damage without ever being able to press charges against the player who damaged me. I've gotten CS3-5 for defending myself against shipjackers. It's bullshit how you can be attacked, but if you defend yourself, you'll end up with a CS and visit to Klescher from the sad wankers who see themselves as "PvPers". With the way that SC works now, if you attack someone and lose the fight and still press charges, you're not a PvPer, you're just a sad, worthless griefer.
I'd like to see improvements, it still feels like an early implementation of a lot of the systems
Yes
Yes
1)Timer should work only while online.
2)On big hubs there should be some kind of spawning nearby police force to protect the miner. But no cool stuff to mine. Same goes for traders. Some trade routes are protected, but yield next to no profits, and some are lucrative but dangerous.
3) Outside of hubs everything is fair game. You go in alone, you take the risks.
It's that balance of risk and reward, choice and consequence which is what's missing at the moment!
Does your jail time stop when you sleep IRL 💀
Being sent to prison needs to be for pvp gameplay infractions. All pve crime stats need to be handled with fines and simplicity in paying them , ie loss of mission reward or pay with mobiglass or you lose access to some pve content until fine is paid. Forcing all pve crime stats to stop what your doing , fly to dock, pay fine or jail time, wastes so much player time for stupid game crimes. Jail is Totally unnecessary mechanic for pve
I dunno, I think separating the 2 could be problematic. Some people talk about the ambition that in the end state of the game, you might not even be able to tell if you're dealing with a person or an AI. I think better would be to fix the issues that cause 'accidental' lawbreaking (fixing the stupid game crimes)
Yes, I'm very interested in crime and punishment in this development...
:D
Fourth!!!! - and now I will watch :) Edit: great video, intelligent commentary too, some balancing issues to be worked out for sure….but I do like the freedom to do and act how I want, allowing my conscience to play a role in that, and at the same time knowing it’s a game. I’d hate tho to ruin someone’s two day mining progress just for a kill and some robbing…
Fourth! Thank you, I'm probably similar, the freedom of choice is important, but that shouldn't make us immune from the consequences of our decisions
The criminal system is weak right now because CIG needs testers.
It's a possibility...
🛀
classic
I am just hoping Star Citizen does not devolve into another Eve Online and the corresponding toxic players. You hit it on the head Farrister the game needs to be fun for all players not just the griefers and that will be the tightrope Star Citizen must walk in order to be successful on a large scale and not become just another small niche game that attracts nothing but toxic griefers. o7 😎👍
I started playing Eve because of amazing community. Even griefers can be great to talk to, a lot of times they even compensated me my losses for being a good sport. Every corp I joined supported me in every way, because pilots are the most precious resource there.
It's not the community that is toxic, it's carebears like you.
@@MalfunctioningAndroid you sir are exactly what I am talking about.
@@zman_o7 yes. And glad I am.
It's a fine balance to strike!
Dont overreact people, 3.18 is still far out. by the time it comes out noone will scream its awefull or great. It will be something pepole will do or just pay the fine or just goto prision when they have a low crime stat.. Why even borther with getting your CS down when you at CS2 (should be abigger fine than CS1) and than be out in a couple of min. It wont take long and its really not a biggie yet.
Yup!
I've always thought being able to just log out while your prison sentence ticks away was nonsense, It's not really much of a punishment at all. Obvs it's fine if you want to kill players/steal/break the law, it's part of the game, but there needs to be real risks/repercussions to doing so. Doing all these things and just being able to log out and come back on the next day sort of trivializes what you have done.
It's a fine balance to strike - forcing somebody to play out a prison sentence, isn't the most dynamic gameplay. Moreover, they could just afk it if online time was the requirement.
This is horrible, parking on grass is shameful
I served my time, OK?!
Alas, those that desire the most to be toxic and get to harm other players with zero consequences are the loudest and most adept at using logical fallacies and abusive methods to get their way.
I can only hope that CiG firmly understands the consequences of catering to this loud, toxic minority in that Star Citizen will become a deeply niche and poorly-received/performing game if it caters to them.
20 minutes is plenty of time. It's YOUR responsibility to play with players who will protect you. Period. Chris is on the pvp side. Humans adapt. Welcome to the pvp verse of SC if you are truly passionate about this game you will adept and over come your pvp abilitys .
Don't give me the awe the game will die crap either.
SC is only growing and the more new faces that come bring more pvp enthusiasts because this game is built around great pvp.
This isn't a solo adventures type game, now I get it some just want to pve alone BUT you must take accountability for yourself here. It's not a one way street. Stop walking down the alley as Faris puts it.
And to be fair you can log in at any give. Time and at most you will see one person complaining about a death per how ever many hours. It's not that big of a deal more of a mental issue then anything people are so used to fastfood life style where they get what they want when they want and they don't like having anyone stopping them. That's where all this stems from.
Sure there will eventually be a preschool where all the kiddos can hold hands and run boxes for next to nothing. But currently we are all here together so deal with aka challange yourself for once and learn the complexity of pvp instead of trying to change the current state to suit your needs. It will make you stronger and more adept to dealing with problems in the verse.
I have no idea who you're talking about because the only toxic people I've ever come across in 2 and a half years of playing are stream snipers.
I agree, I think there's a very vocal group there that are trying to push for Star Citizen to become something it's not. PvP should always be part of the game, but that doesn't mean a PvP free-for-all everywhere, with no consequences for the attacker. Star Citizen has lots of gameplay loops (combat, mining, trading, salvage etc.) for a reason, combat isn't everything!
I don't see the issue. Pve players will one day have their utopia.
All I hear from them currently is how to divide and control the other half of the player base.
They call people who are rightfully and well within the bounds of the rules enjoying the game they payed for as "toxic" or "griefers" if anything the push for pve to prevail is only doing more damage to the community because this is where the true toxicity stems from and spills into the forums.
See pvpers are fine they took the time to learn the skills to take control over their own online destiny. They don't have any beef but it's the pve'ers with the poor me mentality that start throwing shit around in the forums causing a reaction from the pvpers.
The current verse is for EVERYONE star citizen is not a game where you get to go transfer millions of auec solo and have the luxury of not risking an attack. No one has to role play with you... the quicker pve'ers understand this the better.
Make friends, join a org, sim like you would IRL and stop whining when someone exploits the fact that you are alone and they have a skill set they WORKED FOR.
Star citizen will always have pvp around and it's never going to punish players to the point where they have to think about "how do want to spend the rest of my day? " "I can attack this ship and if I get arrested I'll have to log off til tomorrow" despite how bad you clearly want it. 😅
Pvpers want a verse for everyone pvers want a verse for themselves. It's as clear as that from what I've gathered on the forums and here.
I think the issue is at the moment, there isn't a balance of choice and consequence across the board. For now, non-combat players can't choose a safer place to go to avoid combat, it could happen anywhere, with little consequence for the attacker. In fact, attacking other players is largely consequence free right now. The best thing a non-combat player can do is to combat log, which just causes further frustration in the wider community. More meaningful consequences for everyone would make choices matter more - both for attacker and attacked.
I'd add this isn't about skill or otherwise. Some ships are more suited for combat than others. PvP is always going to be around, but it also needs to carry consequences. Star Citizen is not a PvP ONLY game. There are mining mechanics, and trading mechanics, but if illegal gameplay becomes too prevalent, all of those gameplay loops fall by the wayside, and everybody just flies around in a Gladius or Arrow. It kills the game. That's why there need to be choices and consequences for EVERYONE. It sounds like you want a 'Verse where you don't take responsibility for your own actions?
@@Farrister I 100% think their should be penaltys just not to the extent of some of these comments 20 minutes away from the game running mines is good enough. Having to actually live out 6 hours ig to be free (one of the comments) is so insane no logic dev would ever approve of that lol. Which is why I believe pve players def should not be coming up with the rules here.
Acting off of emotion is bad enough. Building a system of punishment off of those emotions is asking for a disaster.
The sense of loss in this game really comes down to one thing. Personal accountability . Did you take the proper actions to ensure that you as a non combatant would be protected ?whether its moving frieght, Quant etc.
See you don't get to have pvp and pve in the verse but have an imaginary line in the sand saying because I don't want to fight it shouldn't happen to me.
I understand you don't expect to never be attacked but helping pve players understand that the onus is on them to actually orgonize help for protection you know simulate actually working in space something pve'rs like to do. Instead of pressing down harder on the people rightly experiencing the other half of the game. There has to be some give and take.
Not wanting nothing to do with combat and the ability to just do what you want in the verse alone unprotected is not a option right now.
Maybe you can use your UA-cam to start a network of like minded people meshed with good hearted pvpers to help protect the pve'rs without an exorbent protection fees. Like a band of brothers or something.. that would be a very logical and exciting way to counter against unprovoked pvp aggression. I'm not saying have dudes follow little Timmy when he needs to do box runs. But if someone needs to run Quant they can reach out on a dedicated discord or something. Think about it.
@@AC1D3URN protection makes sense for some things, but not for everything. You often see bank vans with security guards, but you don't see as many Amazon vans with security. The problem is that PvP at the moment doesn't always focus on finding a fair fight, in many cases it's to find the easiest fight that the player can win. Moreover, there is little an escort can actually do to stop somebody who wants to blow up a Prospector from doing it.
All my comments are advocating consequences that match the impact. For both PvE and PvP. So if a PvE player is flying out in dangerous space, they shouldn't expect the full extent of the law to protect them. Equally if a PvP player is making a point of shooting up Prospectors in safe space for easy kills (and choosing to target player Prospectors instead of going to kill claim jumper missions), they should face consequences equal to the harm they have caused.
The current free for all makes for the potential of a bad experience for non-combat players. I agree that there needs to be balance, but at the moment the balance is off. In my opinion!
Phew Phew Love it 🥷 Does crime always PAY??..
Survey says: no xD