With respect to the 96 mm spacing, it is a requirement of the LR32 worldwide industry standard for cabinets and furniture. All cabinet hardware is LR32. The LR32 system was developed after the end of World War II in order to help speed reconstruction of the vast number of buildings destroyed during the war. The spacing was decided upon because that was the closest that multiple drill bits on a line boring machine could be placed, because of the size of the gears then available. Most of Europe had been using the metric system for a long time.
You are just a Genius... !! Your ingenious method, although with no cost, does not seem to be SLOWER than the commercial expensive ones. Really good and pleasant. Thank you.
PS: You are the first fellow I've seen who has the sense to use dividers to lay out the holes. So much more accurate than using a rule or (egads!) --- a tape measure.
An observation: By referencing each subsequent hole set off the last and using dividers in that way ANY error will be compounded…even just 1/10mm by the end of a row will be a whole mm out. Do a check to ensure hole #10 is centred 960 mm from hole #1. Thanks for sharing.
I would walk off the holes from the start and see if the tenth one lands on 960mm and adjust until it until perfect. Then walk them off again and leave marks.
Thanks for the link to the bench dog clamps ordered these right away. In reply to your question why the holes should be 96mm apart, 96/3=32mm and this is the normalisation standard for cabinets, hinges and so on. See the festool LR32 system for details. BTW nice video.
I believe 96mm is chosen simply because it was adopted by Festool and fits their range of accessories….I could be wrong. In any case if all your dog hole fitting jigs are single peg…then it matters not a jot what spacing you use.
So sweet to hear a pure British accent and way of sharing the knowledge and the humour :) Love it, you earned a new subscriber mate ! Keep the videos coming ! I am a beginner diyer tryn to build a MFT table lol
I must have watched every video on UA-cam as I’m wanting to make a small folding bench with an mft top! And this is by far the simplest way I’ve seen of creating one. Sure it’s not Parf accurate, but it’s not hundreds of pounds either!! “square enough” is perfectly fine for me 😊😊😊.
This is a pretty solid little workbench. While once you figure out how it comes together, it is physically Easy to assemble ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxyFZUPFEey-PuqsPMxqaykBhgA1LWxFHh by yourself. But the diagrams explaining the steps are really pretty bad. I could not get the handle pins in all the way despite multiple attempts, so I just used a screw I had on hand for the 2nd handle. I could not get the first pin in further or pull it back out. You are supposed to hammer it in, but I had no leverage and the handle is plastic and I did not want to risk breaking it. I will get a lot of use out of the bench because of the convenient size and height. It does fold up nicely for storage. They even explain how to fold it so you don't get pinched...that is important!
I recommend Fisch wavecut forstner bits, they last forever and they make a wonderful clean cut. You can purchase a set or get a single bit - for instance 20mm.
The only concern I have is that this method would allow for a multiplication of error. The strips would have to be exact. I think when I get to that point, I will really consider the Parf Guide as shown by Ron Paulk. So far, I have just drilled 3/4-inch holes where needed.
Thanks for watching. What ever suits your needs best to be honest I only use it for holding work. So suited my needs. However, my 4ft square hits every bench dog perfect
Well let me also add my explanation. MDF which is the most used for cabinet is usually 16mm ot at least thr 16mm is usedthis was used as a multiplication factor for the 96mm to make stacked pieces easier. If 18mm was the more used size I would guess the measurements would havr been different
Just a thought but you could have clamped a piece of timber under the bench and drilled all the way through from the top with no tear out. Great way to mark out and space the dog holes, was that your idea?
Hi Wayne Thanks for the feed back. I did consider clamping under neath but dismissed it can't remember why but yes good shout. I did think of the idea but I'm sure it's been done before many times 😃
Mark Koons 0 seconds ago This is a useful video. Thank you. I'm mulling over the possibilities for a combined outfeed table, systainer garage, and assembly table and I'm considering using 1/8" tempered Masonite as a replaceable top surface. I've used tempered Masonite well-waxed for other bench surfaces with gratifying results. My question is whether 3/4" MDF plus an extra 1/8" will pass the ratchet clamps often used with the MFT grid system. From your experience, does it seem like the clearance would be okay?
'Working to the nearest inch or two'- yes, it will be fine for that. Most people use these tables to ensure 90deg cuts, and for that they need to be quite accurate. Errors need to be under 0.1mm between any two holes. Marking with dividers (so that any error is added across the table) and freehand drilling can never get even close. Having tried the PARF system (making my own jigs etc using machine tools) even that leaves much to be desired. A CNC cut template is a fast and accurate route, used with a trim router. I use a template with very slightly undersize holes, and then finish off with a 20mm reamer- gives you hole accuracy not available to woodworking tools. Using ply is an excellent choice- MDF is commonly used, and it is just not dimensionally stable enough for this purpose. (Festool use it- but they do not reference the cuts from the holes but from the aluminium frame.) The way around inaccurate holes is to always use the same ones for tracksaw cutting, and make the fence angle adjustable. Adjust for square, and it is as good as any.
It's woodworking not precision machining. People who use MFT make cabinets, drawers, etc and for those applications there's a lot of tolerance. Heck, I've been doing all that with handtools!
@@stefanopassiglia Using hand tools you can achieve whatever precision you wish, using a process called 'fitting' (it used to be a job title...). After all, it is the starting point for all precision tools. However, as soon as you use jigs and fixtures, you surrender such control- you rely on the tool for the level of accuracy attained. You reduce the time taken, and the skill required, but you can only achieve the tolerance that is inherent in the tool. For production, this is well understood and the tool is made to achieve within tolerance results. For workshop use, the future use cannot be well predicted; it is wise therefore to ensure as high a level of accuracy that does not unreasonably compromise costs. In the UK (and I am sure this is true elsewhere) a CNC cut top can be bought for around £40. Not unreasonable, considering the improved accuracy and work saved. Are they perfect? certainly not, especially in MDF (but that is another discussion) but good enough for most needs.
Thanks for the video, nice alternative vs pricey commercial kits. The dogs themselves aren't cheap but kits prices too much if you're not making multiple tops. Initially I thought those silicon topped work holding dogs were great. How do you find them, do you get tear out on the underside?
Most people only have 1 or 2 cut lines so you really don't need all those holes. Festool does them all to make their table portable, not because you will ever use them all.
Thanks, I get mine from wickes , mostly because they seem to have straighter ones than the building merchants as they seem to have tighter packing straps they bend the boards more
96mm was chosen for the same reason why most woodworker prefer imperial over metric (yes, ironically 96mm is in metric lol): 96/2 = 48 48/2 = 24 24/2 = 12
No problem in using 100mm. The 96mm is because 32mm is used for spacing in shelves, but who actually use the MFT holes for spacing shelves ? 100mm makes much more sense to me. Edit: Besides .. Some people make the dog-holes only as they're needed - without measuring. So even if you don't get them accurate to 0.0% tolerance, don't worry too much about it.
I thought it was 96mm +2 to get to the center on each end first, but that doesn't make sense either. Are there many jigs (or other things) that you can buy that use the 96mm spacing?
@@Warinx The Parf Guide system has a few 96mm spaced tools, but most of the tools have 'flexible' spacing. When you purchase a Festool track for their router, it has 32mm spaced positioning holes (for locking the router in the right position). That should be enough for those who want to make shelves. Notice: Many older workbenches have their dog-holes placed at random (where the holes were needed) and not with any specific spacing. The 96mm spacing is just an extra feature in MFT tables, so that you can reproduce series-production on a similar table. For me, I do not find any advantage in 96mm spacing over 100mm spacing. =)
Everybody seems to be mystified by "96mm", but it's the European standard 32mm system times 3. Why 3 and not, say, 4? Who can say? Festool must have thought a multiple of 3 was an optimal choice.
or just buy a CNC one from ebay for 40 quid with some dogs. then you can use that as a template to make bigger if you want too. it will be 100% accurate then. the main point for MFT is accuracy so you need it to be super accurate really.
Thanks for the feed back . But for me it was just about making it for fun , I know 100% it wont be spot on accurate but just really using it with clamps and stops it works great
![3 MFT Tops, 3 MFT jigs [Video 498]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9DhLQPrjnik/mqdefault.jpg)
With respect to the 96 mm spacing, it is a requirement of the LR32 worldwide industry standard for cabinets and furniture. All cabinet hardware is LR32. The LR32 system was developed after the end of World War II in order to help speed reconstruction of the vast number of buildings destroyed during the war. The spacing was decided upon because that was the closest that multiple drill bits on a line boring machine could be placed, because of the size of the gears then available. Most of Europe had been using the metric system for a long time.
I knew that... But not the gang drilling/gear aspect. Cheers.
You are just a Genius... !! Your ingenious method, although with no cost, does not seem to be SLOWER than the commercial expensive ones. Really good and pleasant. Thank you.
PS: You are the first fellow I've seen who has the sense to use dividers to lay out the holes. So much more accurate than using a rule or (egads!) --- a tape measure.
I have never seen any video using rulers. We all know measuring is error prone.
An observation: By referencing each subsequent hole set off the last and using dividers in that way ANY error will be compounded…even just 1/10mm by the end of a row will be a whole mm out. Do a check to ensure hole #10 is centred 960 mm from hole #1. Thanks for sharing.
You're absolutely right but for what I needed it works fine it's square everywhere so ideal for clamping
I would walk off the holes from the start and see if the tenth one lands on 960mm and adjust until it until perfect. Then walk them off again and leave marks.
@@MarkLawlerBuilder I agree
Thanks for the link to the bench dog clamps ordered these right away. In reply to your question why the holes should be 96mm apart, 96/3=32mm and this is the normalisation standard for cabinets, hinges and so on. See the festool LR32 system for details. BTW nice video.
I believe 96mm is chosen simply because it was adopted by Festool and fits their range of accessories….I could be wrong. In any case if all your dog hole fitting jigs are single peg…then it matters not a jot what spacing you use.
Well done and a great cheat using the two bits of ply then piggy backing them. P
So sweet to hear a pure British accent and way of sharing the knowledge and the humour :)
Love it, you earned a new subscriber mate ! Keep the videos coming ! I am a beginner diyer tryn to build a MFT table lol
Thanks buddy glad you enjoyed & good luck
Not British ,,it's English!
I must have watched every video on UA-cam as I’m wanting to make a small folding bench with an mft top! And this is by far the simplest way I’ve seen of creating one. Sure it’s not Parf accurate, but it’s not hundreds of pounds either!! “square enough” is perfectly fine for me 😊😊😊.
3x32=96 It is a multiple of 32. 32mm is a system for cabinet building.
I love this. This is very clever and very innovative well done
Thank you 👍
Very interesting article on a home made MFT workbench top.
Thankyou
Nice work Mark 👍
Glad you enjoyed it
Great video. Super simple and effective. Well done
Thank you!
Interesting method and certainly passes the frugal test. All the best and thanks for sharing.
Thanks for your feed back and sub. Cheers Mark.
Nice simple approach i like it.
Really well done! Great idea on how to tackle this task.
Thanks Steve 👍🏻
Some great tips here, nice job!
Glad you liked it!
This is a pretty solid little workbench. While once you figure out how it comes together, it is physically Easy to assemble ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxyFZUPFEey-PuqsPMxqaykBhgA1LWxFHh by yourself. But the diagrams explaining the steps are really pretty bad. I could not get the handle pins in all the way despite multiple attempts, so I just used a screw I had on hand for the 2nd handle. I could not get the first pin in further or pull it back out. You are supposed to hammer it in, but I had no leverage and the handle is plastic and I did not want to risk breaking it. I will get a lot of use out of the bench because of the convenient size and height. It does fold up nicely for storage. They even explain how to fold it so you don't get pinched...that is important!
I recommend Fisch wavecut forstner bits, they last forever and they make a wonderful clean cut.
You can purchase a set or get a single bit - for instance 20mm.
On the look out for a nice set of forstner bits will give these a look ,Thanks. please remember to like and subscribe :-)
Great job mate. Wish I had room for 8x4 mft top.
Thankyou. I'm in standard size garage and it very tight just getting away with it.
That’s beautiful workmanship, that is! Innit? 😊👍👍
this top is fine for assembly and general use, not sure how much trust i would have in it with cutting
Give the holes a little roundover or chamfer with a router to just clean them up a bit and aid the bench dogs to slide In and out easier👍
Good call thanks for the feed back . I actually ended up glueing some sand paper to a Dowl putting in a drill and cleaning them up that way
The only concern I have is that this method would allow for a multiplication of error. The strips would have to be exact. I think when I get to that point, I will really consider the Parf Guide as shown by Ron Paulk. So far, I have just drilled 3/4-inch holes where needed.
Thanks for watching. What ever suits your needs best to be honest I only use it for holding work. So suited my needs. However, my 4ft square hits every bench dog perfect
Well let me also add my explanation. MDF which is the most used for cabinet is usually 16mm ot at least thr 16mm is usedthis was used as a multiplication factor for the 96mm to make stacked pieces easier. If 18mm was the more used size I would guess the measurements would havr been different
Great video.
Glad you enjoyed it
Just a thought but you could have clamped a piece of timber under the bench and drilled all the way through from the top with no tear out. Great way to mark out and space the dog holes, was that your idea?
Hi Wayne Thanks for the feed back. I did consider clamping under neath but dismissed it can't remember why but yes good shout. I did think of the idea but I'm sure it's been done before many times 😃
Mark Koons
0 seconds ago
This is a useful video. Thank you. I'm mulling over the possibilities for a combined outfeed table, systainer garage, and assembly table and I'm considering using 1/8" tempered Masonite as a replaceable top surface. I've used tempered Masonite well-waxed for other bench surfaces with gratifying results. My question is whether 3/4" MDF plus an extra 1/8" will pass the ratchet clamps often used with the MFT grid system. From your experience, does it seem like the clearance would be okay?
I don't have ratchet clamps but i think they would be fine
32 mm is the european standard for cabinet building
Thanks for watching and your feedback :-)
It’s a bit like a euro car’s turbo coming in at 62 miles per/ hr. 100 km/per/ hr . The Speed limit off the Motor way
'Working to the nearest inch or two'- yes, it will be fine for that. Most people use these tables to ensure 90deg cuts, and for that they need to be quite accurate. Errors need to be under 0.1mm between any two holes. Marking with dividers (so that any error is added across the table) and freehand drilling can never get even close. Having tried the PARF system (making my own jigs etc using machine tools) even that leaves much to be desired. A CNC cut template is a fast and accurate route, used with a trim router. I use a template with very slightly undersize holes, and then finish off with a 20mm reamer- gives you hole accuracy not available to woodworking tools.
Using ply is an excellent choice- MDF is commonly used, and it is just not dimensionally stable enough for this purpose. (Festool use it- but they do not reference the cuts from the holes but from the aluminium frame.)
The way around inaccurate holes is to always use the same ones for tracksaw cutting, and make the fence angle adjustable. Adjust for square, and it is as good as any.
It's woodworking not precision machining. People who use MFT make cabinets, drawers, etc and for those applications there's a lot of tolerance. Heck, I've been doing all that with handtools!
@@stefanopassiglia Using hand tools you can achieve whatever precision you wish, using a process called 'fitting' (it used to be a job title...). After all, it is the starting point for all precision tools.
However, as soon as you use jigs and fixtures, you surrender such control- you rely on the tool for the level of accuracy attained. You reduce the time taken, and the skill required, but you can only achieve the tolerance that is inherent in the tool. For production, this is well understood and the tool is made to achieve within tolerance results. For workshop use, the future use cannot be well predicted; it is wise therefore to ensure as high a level of accuracy that does not unreasonably compromise costs. In the UK (and I am sure this is true elsewhere) a CNC cut top can be bought for around £40. Not unreasonable, considering the improved accuracy and work saved. Are they perfect? certainly not, especially in MDF (but that is another discussion) but good enough for most needs.
Thanks for the video, nice alternative vs pricey commercial kits. The dogs themselves aren't cheap but kits prices too much if you're not making multiple tops. Initially I thought those silicon topped work holding dogs were great. How do you find them, do you get tear out on the underside?
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for sharing, Mark. I can’t see the links for those clamps...please could you share or point me in the right direction? Cheers.
Thanks for the feed back, i've added the link in the description where i got mine from. Mark
Most people only have 1 or 2 cut lines so you really don't need all those holes. Festool does them all to make their table portable, not because you will ever use them all.
Thank you for sharing, Mark! It looks great. Where did you find ply so cheap this day and age in the UK? 😲
Thanks, I get mine from wickes , mostly because they seem to have straighter ones than the building merchants as they seem to have tighter packing straps they bend the boards more
@@MarkLawlerBuilder Thank you!!! best wishes, Evangelos
Great job Mark looks really good. Excellent channel.
Thankyou for the feedback glad you've enjoying the channel 👍🏻
Nice!
Thanks!
96mm was chosen for the same reason why most woodworker prefer imperial over metric (yes, ironically 96mm is in metric lol):
96/2 = 48
48/2 = 24
24/2 = 12
No problem in using 100mm.
The 96mm is because 32mm is used for spacing in shelves, but who actually use the MFT holes for spacing shelves ?
100mm makes much more sense to me.
Edit: Besides .. Some people make the dog-holes only as they're needed - without measuring.
So even if you don't get them accurate to 0.0% tolerance, don't worry too much about it.
Thanks for the feed back
I thought it was 96mm +2 to get to the center on each end first, but that doesn't make sense either.
Are there many jigs (or other things) that you can buy that use the 96mm spacing?
@@Warinx The Parf Guide system has a few 96mm spaced tools, but most of the tools have 'flexible' spacing.
When you purchase a Festool track for their router, it has 32mm spaced positioning holes (for locking the router in the right position). That should be enough for those who want to make shelves.
Notice: Many older workbenches have their dog-holes placed at random (where the holes were needed) and not with any specific spacing. The 96mm spacing is just an extra feature in MFT tables, so that you can reproduce series-production on a similar table.
For me, I do not find any advantage in 96mm spacing over 100mm spacing. =)
Everybody seems to be mystified by "96mm", but it's the European standard 32mm system times 3. Why 3 and not, say, 4? Who can say? Festool must have thought a multiple of 3 was an optimal choice.
That’s nice saves me 200 euro
Glad you enjoyed
why 96 ? LR32 * 3 = 96
Thanks for the feed back
Do you really need that many 😅
Lol no not really was only going to do one side but got carried away 😜
It is dangerous to use globes with rotating handtools.😢
or just buy a CNC one from ebay for 40 quid with some dogs. then you can use that as a template to make bigger if you want too. it will be 100% accurate then. the main point for MFT is accuracy so you need it to be super accurate really.
also if you dont drill at 90degrees exactly your dogs will be out of square if not careful
Thanks for the feed back . But for me it was just about making it for fun , I know 100% it wont be spot on accurate but just really using it with clamps and stops it works great
Please, please! do not wear gloves when using a table saw, soooooooo dangerous.
Wait! A non-American that prefers the imperial system??! What treachery is this? 😆