Winds of Winter Predictions: Fall of the Freys
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- Опубліковано 18 бер 2020
- The law of guest rite is as sacred as any in the Seven Kingdoms, and the Freys have defiled it as thoroughly as anyone ever has at the Red Wedding. The Brotherhood without Banners, led by lady Stoneheart, have their eyes on revenge, and the Blackfish is swimming free and stirring up trouble...
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Regarding the spies, I also think that Hildy (Lord Jonos Bracken's favored camp follower) could be one. She's high placed in the camp (in Lord Bracken's tent), and immediately after Jaime treats with folks at Raventree Hall, he heads to Pennytree where Brienne conveniently knows where to find him. No on in Raventree could have informed on Jaime's whereabouts (they're under siege), Bracken we know is on Jaime's side, so that leaves...the camp follower that no one would suspect. AND! We know that Petyr Pimple ran off after a camp follower when he was caught and hanged. Methinks the BWB has a network of camp follower spies, and I LOVE the idea of all these overlooked women bringing down the high lords without the lords ever being aware. They go unnoticed and underestimated, yet they are powerful. Reminds me of Arya in the Mercy chapter.
And then you have them helping orphans at the inn, which is run by a woman. Once again, I think Martin is saying something about all the often nameless, unnoticed, and underestimated helping hands in war to protect people being those of women.
Thanks for leaving such great comments Ba'al, and yeah I had my eye on Hildy based on instinct, glad the evidence backs that up. Great point about Petyr Pimple - the camp followers are indeed overlooked, but deadly!
@@DavidLightbringer
And since the readers see Westeros through the eyes of the high lords, they too are unlikely to notice the deeds of small folk women.
Hildy is not an ordinary camp-follower. She's not acting like one. When Jaime bursts into Lord Bracken's tent and catches him having sex with Hildy, she tries to cover herself in shock and says she is not a whore when Jaime remarks that her covering up is bad for her trade. Jaime apologizes and says he's been with only one whore so he wouldn't know the difference between a whore and a mistress (his jealousy and hurt are making him call Cersei that, though she is a cheater, not a whore, she wasn't paid). Then, Hildy overcomes her initial surprise and tries to seduce Jaime, even touching him inappropriately without his permission, while her lover was still searching for his clothes. If she had been Lord Bracken's lover out of sentiment, she wouldn't have done that. If she had been a whore, she wouldn't have covered up. And then, seeing that Jaime doesn't react visibly, she asks him what he is attracted to in women , he answers "innocence" and she laughs. Later at Pennytree, when his men told him a woman wanted to see him, Jaime thinks it's Hildy at first, but no, it's innocent Brienne sent as bait by Lady Stoneheart. Hildy had reported back to the BWB and they sent an appropriate bait. The whole Lannister and Frey army are infiltrated by spies--singers, whores, etc, and they watched Jaime's behavior closely. The BWB wrongly called Brienne the "Kingslayer's whore" when she was brought before Lady Stoneheart, because she had repeatedly called his name when she was delirious with fever, and sent her as bait like they sent another whore to Petyr Frey. I was surprised Jaime believed Brienne's lie about Sansa and the Hound and left everything behind to go help her. I mean, he trusts her and cares for her, but he is not stupid enough to think he can defeat the Hound one-handed. Later Kevan tells Cersei that Jaime went missing with Brienne in the Riverlands, so enough time has passed that someone in his army sent a raven to the capital.
@@lalywindland5764 wow thanks for posting that, that is so interesting! GRRM loves having characters in disguise and undercover... i wonder who she really is. Maybe a Lady due to her covering herself?
@@dustin628 No, not a Lady, because Jaime, Lord Bracken and others would have recognized her from Court, balls, tournies and other events where the highborn people gather. And she also doesn't speak like a lady. For example, when he is released from Riverrun by Catelyn and wakes up from the wine she had given him, Jaime immediately realizes Brienne is highborn at first glance, despite her being dressed like a soldier, not a lady, and being conventionally unattractive, just by the way she spoke. I think Hildy had been part of the smallfolk, maybe a farmer's daughter in the Riverlands, war and famine led her to BWB who use her as a spy. She was never a whore, or she wouldn't have covered up, not a Lady, because many would have recognized her, and not in love with Bracken, because she wouldn't have pinched Jaime's cock through his trousers ,without permission, with her lover still there. Honestly I was as shocked as Jaime when she did that, that was when I realized she was a spy.
"Wait, so the Blackfish doesn't go back to the castle for no reason???"
"No, that was...the TV show..."
LOL
Reminds me of Wyman Manderly's third degree burn: had he lived, he would have grown up to be a Frey
That's my boy! He a straight savage. The only Freys he likes are smothered in gravy.
@@thefilmeffect6089 With a good ale to wash their dirty taste.
Wyman "Rat Cook" Manderly, at your service 🐀
there is no such thing as that "gutbaF" (]°{,, but ya, thanxyu fr the commentary, thats excellent insights yu hav!
presumably, wyman didn't cook the pies himself. So, there's the whole kitchen staff know there are freys in the pies.
With so many ASOIAF UA-camrs running out of material or just leaving the platform, you two are absolutely bringing it. Keeping fighting back the long night gentlemen.
So many of the other channels are so superficial after watching these guys
When the greatjon breaks his chains during the captive liberation is going to be one of the best scenes in winds
God I hope it happens!!! Been waiting for the prisoner train to get freed for years now!! One of the things I'm most looking forward to in TWOW!!
Hell yeah!!!
That would be amazing! Didn’t even think of that considering his sigil is a giant that breaks his chains. Didn’t even think of that parallel. It’ll be the brotherhood and nymeria and an army of wolves that sends the camp fleeing i think.
One of the most underrated characters in the show and books. Easily.
Gives me G’kar vibes from Babylon 5
Dont forget about maege mormont and galbert glovers mission to seek out Howland Reed with the info of Robb naming Jon Snow as his heir
Tom O' Seven is in the camp with Jamie. He's one of the spies. Remember? He's the singer that Jamie had sing to Edmure
I've finished the books this weed, and I was like, "wait, what is this guy doing here?"
Didn’t see this before I made my comment...I’m surprised these Quinn and LmL missed it...but I still have a third of the video to go!!
Was looking for this one
There's also the crannogmen to contend with. In Jaime IV of Feast we learn that the brotherhood had fled into the Neck and who rules there? Howland Reed, the only known survivor of the Tower of Joy.
That's a tiny detail that is such a bigger deal than people make it out to be - not necessarily for the TOJ, but for Robb's will - Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover were also last destined for the Neck, and recently LSH came into possession of a certain crown. Wonder if this is all connected.
"The *reeds* bowed down before" Catelyn's body.... 🤔
And the crannogmen absolutely fucked the Ironborn
@@fuzzydunlop7928 Galbart is currently at Seagard. But there is this woman @ the wall. The way she is described and her manner. The way she talks back to Jon. I think that's Maege Mormont come to check out this J.Snow heir to her king. Then all the mountin lords close to the wall start showing up. Supposedly for the Wedding of Alys Karstark. Jon doesn't believe and neither do I. Not to mention how did they get word of the wedding. I think Maege went thru the mountains on her way home and told the mountain clans about Jon, the wildlings, thw wrights/the peril of the wall but lastly to Watch Jon maybe even keep him safe.
@@lorenegross8120 definitely failed at the ‘keep him safe’ part haha
News from George R. R. Martin's Not a Blog:
“For those of you who may be concerned for me personally… yes, I am aware that I am very much in the most vulnerable population, given my age and physical condition. But I feel fine at the moment, and we are taking all sensible precautions. I am off by myself in a remote isolated location, attended by one of my staff, and I’m not going in to town or seeing anyone. Truth be told, I am spending more time in Westeros than in the real world, writing every day. Things are pretty grim in the Seven Kingdoms… but maybe not as grim as they may become here.”
- George R. R. Martin
so the bitter sweet ending is in westoros they all live happily ever after and george will live long enough to finish both books but all his fans will die of covid -19 before they finish reading
@@teese1630 Bittersweet indeed. Those that so worried about George not living to finish the books perish before being able to finish reading them, George left to sit the Iron(ic) Throne.
We believe in you George
@@fuzzydunlop7928 Yeah thats what i said.
plot twist the real world is grrm novel.
but slow down. this make believ were doing is two many inception layers high for real fictional conjectures.
down one layer the iron(ic) throne may not be the stupidest youtube comment ive evber read.
omg if the cARONAvyris takes me out before i get to see dany on the iron throne or before we get more info on the blackwoods in new dunk n eggs, i’m gonna have to haunt all the super readers to stay updated on the STORY!!
Have to agree with Quinn, Catelyn (in life) HATES Jon. She was in grief, but that's how she's always felt & she could just speak freely for once.
In that chapter later where she tells her story of Jon being a baby, wishing him dead & then Jon gets sick & she feels guilty, then prays to have him recover "If he recovers, I will be a true mother to him, I swear it" (to that effect) but she says she _couldnt_ keep her promise & she feels like all the "horror" brought upon her family is bc she couldn't love a motherless child.
She also wanted to forbid Robb from naming Jon his successor, if he should die. She still held enmity towards him.
Perhaps, lady Stoneheart, in death can find a way to right that wrong she did to Jon. Who knows.
Lots of cool possibilities here with Jon/Ghost and Arya/Nymeria.
Stoneheart is clearly evil. She ain't changing a thing. If anything she'll overtly fight Jon.
I know it's 2 years, but Catelyn never pray for Jon in books. It's only show thing. This thing never happen.
That's one thing that got me sad watching the show was that after she died Jon was never able to understand that about her and she wasn't able to tell him
One of the biggest tragedies of the story is Jon's childhood. Imagine how different, and loving, his life would have been if Caitlyn knew he was her orphaned nephew.
The Brotherhood Without Banner going full Cosa Nostra is both cathartic and terrifying.
"That's a lovely heir you have there, it'd be a shame if he were to hang within a day's march of the Twins."
A great plague swept through all the lands and the villagers huddled in their cottages for fear. But as the sun began setting two riders rode through the village, a wizard wearing horns and dark glasses and the other man wearing a fedora.
"Who are you?" The scared villagers asked.
"I am LML, Lucifer Means Lightbringer," the horned wizard said. "And this is Quinn. We have come to bring good cheer in this dark time."
They came to us at the turn of the tide.
@@bobthepervyuncle they have a power that Voldemort knows not.
Witches!! Burn them!! The one man has horns and that most assuredly does not line up with our medieval sensibilities!!
@@KingOfWinter "but how do you _knoooow_ she's a witch?"
The Star Wars Questioner because he turned me into a Newt!!!....... Well, I turned back....
Tom O'Sevens is staying in Riverrun, too, and Jamie has already worded him up that Gemma is the one with the brains/power, so I suspect there will be a bit of inside work going on
Which is why Daven Lannister's wedding everyone thinks will be held at Riverrun. But as the Warden of the West and one of the Lannisters who was with Tywins host from the beginning makes more sense for the wedding to held at Castely Rock. Arguy the Archer from the brotherhood was one of the men put on Edmure and Westerling on the March West. Since the brotherhood has been using whores and singers to spread news and such. All those camp followers will be turned into washerwoman now thst they have returned west. There is a story that Casterly Rock was overturned by the work of a whore who opened a poster gate to allow the army thru.
You implied Merrett was merely associated with the Red Wedding, and wasn't known to do anything directly, but he did. He was given the job of getting Greatjon Umber too drunk too fight, so he was definitely 100% an active part of the plot. He failed though btw, as Umber still killed several men before being captured.
That’s such a crazy feat for the Greatjon, not only was Merrett a heavy drinker but he wasn’t even the only Frey to challenge to outdrink him and dude still fought
Robb: breaks off an engagement.
The Freys: murders everyone he ever met plus half an army of men, throws his dead mother into a river to mock her traditions, sews the head of his dog onto his decapitated corpse.
They seem very forgiving people.
Thankfully they aren't pro-revenche.
What a truly great and noble house w o w e e
@Lucimyr I mean they're going to get systematically killed off regardless of what you think.
@Lucimyr golden rule exists for a reason. Freys are about to be fucked
It's funny that Jamie has new found honor but through the actions of his father and walder everyone has abandoned there's.
blacksuite1 He was born in the wrong family
Ironic that. He used to be surrounded by people who valued honor and duty above all else and was looked down most of his life yet even his father, Cersei and the Frey's were so dishonorable that he yeeted and made a complete 180
If I'm a Frey hearing the whispers of these outlaws rolling around so close to my home, then the idea of scattering like a rat (as Quinn put it.) and taking up the Surname 'Rivers' really sounds like a brilliant idea.
This is such a good series. Great job, guys!
HAIL Kings and Generals!!!!!!!!
Wow I am amazed to see you guys here. On Historia Civilis or Invicta or EHTV sure, but here too? I may have to apply for a job with you all.
More ASOIAF battles please. :D
Woah, didn’t expect to see you here! It’s an ambush!!
Great to see you here!
After Jamie dismissed Frey and said just go, he went to Sir Edmure. When Edmure was in the tub, Jamie had someone play “The Rains of Castermere.” And Edmure’s reaction is like, “not you.” It was Tom-o-Sevens...he is how the Brotherhood knows some Frey movements/Jamie’s commands. And if you think back to an earlier Arya chapter in SOW I think, Tom was the singer that pissed off Edmure years ago and is the reason he doesn’t like signers.... (forgive the spelling, I do the audiobooks...)
yeah it's a great subplot isn't it :)
The whole wolf pack thing is so cool. A great example of GRRM taking something typically medieval and turning it to 11 with fantasy elements. Historically, wolf packs could be huge problems for medieval communities, especially in times of war and famine, as the hunger for food made the wolves more aggressive towards human communities.
I remember reading that George said that Jeyne will appear in the prologue of The Winds of Winter
I think he said that at SDCC in 2014. She won't be the POV though. So, she's somewhat safe.
As long as she's not the pov that's fine.
Well... technically Varamyr is still alive, in the form of One Eye, the wolf. Second life of wargs and all that.
I find Jaime's sense of humour the best... Better than Tyrion's. It really instantly cracks me up with laughter. Jaime rocks 🤘
Feast/Dance Jaime is the best Jaime.
@@alanpennie8013 sos Jamie’s am I joke to you??🤣🤣
I must correct y'all on one thing. Not all Freys are slimy; there's one good one...Olyvar, Robb's squire. Cat herself remembers that Olyvar was, in her words, "devoted to her son". Which is key because there's emphasis on Stoneheart "remembering". So it'd be interesting to see what happens should Stoneheart encounter him again. Olyvar also wasn't present at the Red Wedding, so that's another point in his favor. I suspect Olyvar is the Rosby ward, and will turn the castle over to one of the Starks, most likely Jon since Robb named Jon his heir. This is important because Rosby controls King's Landing's food supply. So whoever controls Rosby could starve the city out. If Cersei maintains control, the Starks would have every reason to do this. Not to mention, controlling Rosby would give the Starks a steady food supply through winter. Another possibility, assuming the Starks would align themselves with Stannis after he liberates Winterfell, is that Stannis could effectively starve the city out as well.
Wow Excellent point! Never thought of that!
If Olyvar is the ward, he could also cede the castle to Sansa once she reveals herself to the world. Which would be interesting because of her history with Cersei. Also, if Sansa got it that means Littlefinger has it. I could see him trying to leverage Rosby as a way to broker a betrothal between fAegon and Sansa.
That's if Stannis the Mannis is still alive at that point, which seems unlikely but possible.
@@basileusbasil4041 I'm rooting for Stannis lol. But I do recognize the likelihood of his death is high, that he may not get to go South because of the Others, etc etc. Which is why I put that outcome at the end of my comment. And of course this is all contingent upon the theory that Olyvar is the ward is true.
There ever a reason given for his absence? In a way, NOT being at the Red Wedding is actually a strike against him because it implies he knew something ahead of time and neglected to let the cat out of the bag to Robb or any of his people, now, that doesn't have to be at all true. He could've been held back against his will as far as anyone knows but will LSH care?
Quinn, I also really like your idea of perverted, twisted honor being at play with LSH. It matches nicely with the Freys defending the Red Wedding by saying that the realm was mocking them and they needed to restore their honor, and with Tywin invading and pillaging the Riverlands because Cat taking Tyrion hostage besmirched his honor. In that sense, Cat is serving their version of 'honor' right back to them. If the high lords in Westeros can use honor as an excuse to rape, burn, pillage, and destroy, then she can use it to get revenge on them for destroying her family. And while it's a twisted sense of 'honor', it's been overall less harmful to the kingdom/smallfolk than the high lords Walder Frey and Tywin Lannister's warped sense of honor.
Don't forget the Frey Civil War where when Walder Frey dies, who from his many wives and sons gets the twins?
plus the Vale invasion where a chunk of the freys are related to the Waynwoods of Vale.
There's more fighting in store for the afflicted Riverlands, the cockpit of Westeros.
Kinda feels like they overlooked at lot of little fixtures in this video. The looming Frey infighting, the Northmen still in the Riverlands, Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover in the Neck. Granted there are a lot of little fixtures involved.
@@alanpennie8013 I really wonder how anyone can still be living in the Riverlands lol place is basically a wasteland by this point, like Velen from Witcher 3
@@MrKILLINOOBZ
Maybe The Vale Army will turn round and go back home when they see how The Riverlands have been devastated.
@@alanpennie8013 I doubt it considering how hyped they were getting in AGOT to take revenge on the Lannisters.
"We will kill until no Frey breathes Riverlands air."
Nice :)
Every time I click a new one of this series and hear Quinn telling me I don't know shit about asoiaf's ending I get so stoked hell yeah
Great video as always. "Shades of Frey" lol. The Brotherhood Without Manners is such a great subplot in the books, and such a hamfisted WTF? in the show.
Let's hope Thoros leads his band try and take out Stoneheart's group.
I can definitely see the Freys infighting as soon as Walder dies, and considering a lot of them participated in the Red Wedding to keep their place in the Twins and some even control their own castles, they will probably divide into factions to do so. Maby Stoneheart's intent is to kill just the right amount of Freys to raise the tension for them to bring about their own downfall. Stoneheart will then just have to finish the few remaining at the end.
“The Fall of the Freys” aka “The Sweetness of the Long Defeat”
It would be a real twist if Jaime, on his way to be potentially executed by Stoneheart, is actually captured en route by the Blackfish & taken hostage. I have a strong strong feeling that this is what will happen, & if it does he will give Jaime the option of possibly saving his aunt Genna at Riverrun in exchange for letting Blackfish & his crew into the castle. Tom O'Sevens is the inside man & he will probably take out Eamon Frey.
And maybe Blackfish will stick up for Jaime, due to his honourable actions at Riverrun, saving him from Stoneheart. Is Genna at RR? Can't remember
Your assuming that hes still in the Riverlands. I don't think so I believe he went West not East. 2 knights sworn to RR left the siege to join the Watch and are being escorted as far as Maidenpool by the Red Griffin. Knights have been used as envoys in the pat Jon and the wrong way rangers(envoys), Littlefinger and negotiations with the Tyrella he wanted knights to lend credence to his words. BF knows JS is RS heir. He sent 2 men on a route to the wall that will taken them to the Fingers, Gulltown, Runestones, 3 sisters and then W.Harbor. before heading north to the Wall. That's house Mooton, Littlefinger, Rich branch of house Arryn, Major branch house Royce, Lord Staunton and lastly Manderly. What message might they bear? THE NEWS OF Jon Stark.
Tom.of Sevenstreams knows.of J.L plans as he made no secret when he threatened E.T in that tent before sending him into lift the siege of RR. It took all day for the castle to "fall" Tom, Edmure and the Blackfish would have ample time to make their plans. Not to mention The BwB have their spies and such set. They will need a commander in the west to organize the men and whores and who ever else is there to bring the Rock down. Which should Cersei have to flee K.L and the Rock is in the hands of the BwB its similar to Aegon II and Rheanyra. No one would look for him at the Rock.
I don’t believe Jeyne is pregnant bc sybelle was constantly giving her anti pregnant drinks
Yes, Sybelle (granddaughter of Maggie the Frog) told Jeyne that she was drinking a fertility potion, but was actually giving her a contraceptive tea... not 100% effective, but certainly lowers the chances significantly
bronhaller I think people think that she is because George made a mistake about the way her hips are described
@@pjdemorest26 it's funny, because I always took the mistake to be because it was two different people's perspectives
@@bronhaller
The multiple pov narration is a wonderful device for concealing author error.
We NEED the embryo King in The North.
LML in this video looks like a high elf member of the dark brotherhood
The brotherhood does have a spy in jaimes camp. On the last Jaime chapter, Jaime speaks to Tom of 7 streams who actually says he was in sir (rayman?) party but decided not to go with him. What I love about that part is that’s the last we hear from Jaime. He is basically in a sticky situation coming into the winds of winter.
Came here looking for exactly this. I thought i remembered the "singer" being in the camp and that is how they got their info but i like the idea of the camp followers being his eyes and ears as quinn and lml stated.
Ah they are planning a Red wedding 2.0 in the riverlands , that Jaime cousin Devan is getting married... with a Frey.
Let's hope Devan doesn't die, he seems to be a good guy, sure he's a Lannister, but he's a good Lannister, I also hope that Thoros comes in and saves the day, though not before Stoneheart's band kills a few people, and the Lannisters and Freys know that there are problems in the Riverlands so they know that they should have some troops waiting nearby with their swords on.
Wasn’t Jane’s mother feeding her something like “moon tea” to prevent conception?
Omg YAS the content thank you.
I still have to work but I have to basically lock myself in my office. This is keeping me sane
Same here!! In my office w the door closed to the world. This and coffee as my fuel!
You guys aren't giving any credit to Roslin or Olyvar. That whole side of the family is cool. If they survive Stoneheart and the Long Night they are the future of House Frey
That's fair. I wonder if they will be spared for being decent or if the "curse" will take all the Freys. Fat Walda is dope as fuck too for that matter.
@@DavidLightbringer I honestly believe fat Walda will die like she did in the show, the entire thing was strait up Ramsy's alley.
@@DavidLightbringer I've never seen the Brotherhood not declare guilt by association
@@basileusbasil4041 ramsy is far worse in the books. Nothing in the show will happen in the books
Wisdom Manari' I mean Catelyn did say in the red wedding chapter that she noticed that olyvar wasn’t there. robbs closest Frey ally wasn’t there at the wedding. So maybe stoneheart will remember this. But doubtful since she’s a different person now and probably isn’t concerned with details like these.
I think the wolf pack in the riverlands is a parallel to the Brotherhood because they are both a band of wild creatures lead by a she-wolf.
I love that we've reached a point in the series where the bad guys are also starting to get picked off, not just the people we all like haha. And even more, I love that every single Frey is probably going to be dead by the end of the series.
Blackfish is gonna go to the brotherhood, where Stoneheart will give him the crown to take north and give to Jon because she knows Rob made him his heir and she thinks everyone else is dead.
Oh that’s a cool idea. Blackfish already has an obsidian brooch, he’d make a great Watch commander
@@DavidLightbringer I just feel like he'll do whatever Kat asks him to do, even if he's unnerved by her current state. If she asks him to do something, I think he will, weather that's taking Rob's crown to Jon, rescuing Jayne, or retaking Riverrun. Family, Duty, Honor and all that.
This series is really helping me through some tough times right now. Keep up the good work, guys.
I still think the most likely way for Jamie to get out of the cave is by bringing some of the higher up Freys out of hiding. Like Black Walder or old Walder himself. Or getting the brotherhood acces to the twins somehow and create a new massacre for the smallfolk to wisper about
That’s actually a good idea. Besides Cersei, the Lannister’s (the ones still alive) aren’t bad per say. But the Frey’s... yeah they got some who Jamie I believe would bring himself in assisting to “relocate” some high ranking Frey’s
@@ryanelliott71698
I guess. You'd think Jaime would be sympathetic to Freys bound to follow their evil liege.
But he can always tell himself he resolved his own dilemma differently.
@@ryanelliott71698 so long as they were part of the Red Wedding, if they were Rosby Freys, anyone as a result of Roslin's mother, they've gotta be spared, as well as Big Walder, he's a good kid.
Intresting thing about lady.
it was nymeria that "mauled" joffery
but lady was punished for it because nymeria was already gone
the hand knew what really happend and that joffery probs deserved the mauling the king knew it too
but he dispensed "justice" anyway eventually the hand died killed by a lannister
useing a headsman
tyrion was punished for poisoning joffery
sansa was already gone. but (ladys master)
It was the tyrells that had actually done it (both ladies) and
the hand Tywin was aware of who had actually done it dispensed justice anyway and was was killed by a lanister
who looked him in the eye before executing him
Don't discount the other "wolves" in the Riverlands still. Roving bands of Northmen who'd survived Bolton's manufactured ambush. Believe the number is around 200 or so. There's a good blog post out there somewhere that includes the math on this. Think it's named something like "Wolfish Hearts in the Riverlands".
i hope we get a blackfish Pov chapter :D
No! every pov character in the prologues dies. We dont want that obviously.
@@Ahmed-ii7up he wasn’t say prologue chapter he just want POV chapters for blackfish
I don't think we'll get new POVs because Martin himself said he's going to kill POV characters here and there to condense the story for ADOS, which is a pity because Blackfish and fAegon deserves POVs more than Quentyn and Cersei!
I love the look on Quinn's face when Luce starts saying Book-Cat wasn't that bad lol. Show Catelyn actually shows regret to her treatment of Jon near the end of her story arc. The only difference between Book-Cat and Lady Stoneheart is she can't nag everyone as much.
Yeah my reaction was very similar to Quinn's. I am pretty sure Cat's hatred for Jon was even stronger in the books simply because we can see her thinking about it several times and even towards the end when Robb tells her he wants to legitimize Jon, she's hating on Jon again. In the show there is this scene - ua-cam.com/video/NTC8k2PHJYs/v-deo.html - and nothing similar to this happens in the books. We never see her admitting that her hate towards Jon wasn't fair.
@@Marviczekpusiczek This is true, but we do get interesting information as to why she dislikes Jon, which curiously might also suggest why she might not oppose him taking up the Stark mantle. When Catelyn recalls her early marriage, Ned bringing Jon to Winterfell, and her curiosity and concerns, there are hints that the situation might (an unconfirmed theory, of course) be thus: that Robb is Brandon's child that Ned has agreed to accept as his own and heir to Winterfell so long as Catelyn accepts Jon in their household and stops asking questions. While Robb was alive, she kept Jon at a distance, fearful that he might one day pose a rivalry to him (as she believes that Jon is Ned's son.) Now Robb and (she thinks) all her other children are dead, she may feel that Jon is as qualified to be a Stark heir as her own son was - maybe even thinking that she is restoring the succession back to the way her husband would have wanted.
@@MinesAGuinness robb can't possibly be Brandon's son, the timings don't work. Brandon died months before robb was conceived.
Rereading Game of Thrones, I now think Book Cat is the dumbest woman in the seven kingdoms or had some hints to Lysa and Littlefingers plans.
I was looking for a video like this. House Frey is one of my favorite villains of the series and I can't wait for their downfall in Winds.
Jeyne Westerling could make a lot of trouble for Frey, Lannister, and Bolton even if she isn't pregnant now. All they would need to do is get her with one of Edmure's bastards (Caitlyn mentioned these more than once), or just some guy who looks roughly like Robb. If her mother's not present to make sure she drinks moon tea (as if she'd ever trust her mother again!), she could produce a child within a year and they'd have Robb's heir to rally around.
Wasnt the singer that sang when jamie was talking to edmure Tully tom of seven strings??? I'm pretty sure it was if so he was the spy
That’s correct.
I really want to see the Blackfish have a huge part in the next book! And the Wolfpack! So many things in this line that the show just utterly missed on.
Omg I kind of love that betraying someone you welcome under your roof with bread and salt or whatever is thought to offend the gods, and now Walder Frey having done so has led to a revenge zombie being resurrected presumably by some god purely to wipe out his house. Maybe that’s the magic that allowed Catelyn to be resurrected lol
i had missed yesterday's episode on Quinn's channel, so today i got a DOUBLE FEATURE! i'm enjoying this series so much, chomping at the bit for TWoW.🌬❄☃️
You guys are great together. Really enjoying these videos !
Definitely will be uber satisfying getting the particulars with how the Freys are taken out in the books . likely en masse. Stoneheart to me makes the most sense to be the driving force and orchestrator of it and certainly fitting for her arc and satisfying for her character. There are also a confluence of like minded characters who would want revenge on the Freys and Lannisters and willing to take action - the Blackfish , Arya & Nymeria / her wolfpack to go along with Lady Stoneheart and her contingent of the Brotherhood ; so it could be a collective effort. Myself and many are eagerly anticipating to see exactly how this plays out / unfolds in the books.
Knowing how big the Frey and Lannister family is, some Innocents are going to die, I just hope Daven and his bride aren't murdered, as well as Genna, she's a good woman, she cares for her family.
@@sonofjack6286 I see Olyvar Frey as the perfect example of someone who'll die because of unnecessary "getting back". Good kid, wasn't involved, but he's a Frey. Not really just
Loving these duo channel videos you both bring different mind sets and ideas thanks for the great content.
I thoroughly enjoy your Merrett voice. I definitely read him as less squeaky, but your scared little boy version hits even harder.
There is one point you forgot about Catelyn´s death: while as you said Beric died delivering justice, she died just after killing Aegon "Jinglebell" Frey, a completely innocent man (that his asshole father made into his court jester for being a bit simple). That is her path I Think, and only that: blind and bloody revenge, without a second tought.
Plus, as Quinn points out, Catelyn REALLY hates Jon in the books. In the show they gave her a second thought on that, but in ASOIAF, Jon represents two things for Catelyn: a menace for her children, and the fact that she will never truly belong to the North. No way she will back hin up.
Concerning people "deserving" to die, I cheered for Ryman´s hanging (after all it was him who slew treacherously Dacey Mormont), but I fear GRRM will make us rue our joy at seeing the Freys killed: let´s not forget the decent ones like Olyvar or Edmure´s wife Rosamund. They are not safe. :( (not even poor Jeyne Westerling)
The only Frey I have ne fear for is Big Walder. That kid will end up Lord of the Twins, that´s just a fact. Even if it means getting in a killing contest of his relatives against Stoneheart. ;)
Thanks a lot in any cas for your videos, you´re great!
I'm only a third of the way in, but I have to say
I love this channel
I love you guys -- truly, your collaborations are _no-less-than par excellence_
And, regarding 10:20
The gods that matter -- The Olde Gods -- are watching...
And in their ever darkening gaze...there is _no clemency_
These videos are giving me hope for our real future in these crazy times. Keep it up guys and thank you so much!
Thank you for this series of videos! They are wonderful and I hope you continue with some sort of collaboration!
Watching these streams is getting me back into ASOIAF. After thinking Winds would soon be following the end of the show, and soon understanding that it’s not near being released, I lost heart in this book series and the fandom. I have been following both of you for years and I seen you had this colab stream and I clicked on it. You two are some of my favorite theorists. Thank you.
How cool will it be if Walder Frey dies with no children. In the first book he was famous for having too many children and grandchildren and all of them die at the end.
Thanks, guys, for this series - it's great to have this direct path back into the reasons why i love this story in the first place. And i'm excited again about the books, when i haven't even wanted to think about them for months. Much obliged!
So many plots going on...thanks for presenting all these story lines....
Hey Guys Great video. Sorry for the TL:DR but it is a long video after all...
Merret didn't do anything but Drink. The brotherhood isdoing the same thing as before. Blaming Sandor for Gregor's crimes. It's guilty by association. It's just petty reasons for revenge and murder. Yes He knew that the Red Wedding was coming. But so did Rosalin...many of the Freys were coerced into complying with the Red Wedding or they'd get kicked out of the Twins.
Additionally there are good Freys there. Hell we hear about Freys that were excluded from the Red Wedding because they were too close to the STARKS One of Robs squires was a FREY.
Like I said in the previous video even if they managed to kill all the Freys at the Twins, there are Freys in the Vale Castle Darry and Rosby and they're intermarriage with Crackhalls and Hardying not to mention the Lannisters.
By the logic of the Brotherhood all the Westerlings are guilty of the Betrayal as well. So they should kill them all too.
Would Jeyne just let them kill her mother and other family? Would we even still like her if she did?
You talk about the Tullys restoring the honor of their Family after they were mocked and betrayed. that's Ironic LML that is literally the justification you quoted from Merret earlier in the Video...😑
I'm sorry but Catelyn would Never give Winterfel to Jon. Her whole motivation was getting Jon away from Winterfel and protecting her children. Remember that Long rant she went on about Vale Lords and such just to avoid even mentioning Jon as a possible heir? Does she seem like she had softened on those ideas? Hell blackfish thinks Jon was places in Charge of the Nights Watch by Tywin somehow. If that rumor was ever passed to her that would cemet her enmity for him. Please remember when Ned left Winterfel she demanded that Jon leave. So she doesn't respect the wishes of people when they're no longer around to enforce them. Call it a bias but nothing I've read has lead me to believe that something like this would ever happen.
So what? Every adult frey present at the red wedding deserves a rope. They all knew what was going to happen, so played a part.
@@OkaniJMCA Even Edmures wife?
I think it could be very interesting if Stoneheart sees the wolf pack and recognises Nymeria, and even more interesting if she realises the direwolf can understand her. She might not realise it's Arya, but if she was able to control the wolfpack through Arya willingly following her orders then she could do a lot of damage. Also, if Arya saw Stoneheart through Nymeria's eyes, she'd sure as hell want to go back to Westeros right away. She knows the wolf dreams are real at this point, as she remarked to herself that she could tell the Kindly Man that it's snowing in the Riverlands, but chose not to, as she'd have to tell him how she knew and she doesn't want them to know she's a skinchanger.
The episode I was waiting for!!!
Just gotta say, I am looking forward to these way to much during my "staying at home" time. Yeah! Keep it up.
I love Quinn’s measured, honey dipped “mhm.”
I love you guys! Thanks for all the amazing content! 😊
Conspire with Roose get the noose
Wonderful collaboration between David Lightbringer and Quinn’s Ideas. You guys are super computers of ASOIAF information and beyond!
Thank you guys sooo much! I will donate!
Thank you for the amazing content dudes you guys are killing it
You guys do some great vids. Very well thought out and full of great theories.
Sorry LML Catelyn utterly LOATHES Jon Snow. She will never let him have the crown.
She don't get to choose... or does she?
Can I just say your joy and childlike sillyness is so enamoring :)
You guys are the best to watch right now ❤️
These book videos r on point great work brother
First, I really love the videos you guys have been making. Its making me get my hype up for Winds (if and when it ever happens). But I gotta say, as an artist it is so incredibly refreshing to see youtube videos that posts art to go through the trouble to properly credit all of the art used. So often people just use art without asking/crediting, and sometimes even cropping out the signatures so no one will even know who the artist is. Its awesome that you go through the trouble to credit everyone.
Even cooler, Quinn, after watching several of these videos I finally, today (I am not always the most perceptive lol) noticed what looks like my metal print of Aegon the Conqueror of Harrenhall hanging on your wall!!!!!! I would love to know where you saw me and picked it up.
Thank you for supporting all of the artists that help bring this world to life, and for personally supporting me and my art
I think that the purpose before death is a really salient point. One I didn't appreciate. Thanks lads. Second video into this series and I am really digging your content. Way to make a weekend go by. Respect.
12:24 He also sells out his own kin, implicating who did what, etc. in carrying out the betrayal.
That bass slap joke was so damn funny.
Poor poor Rosalyn Frey...
“Those are as good as money sir. Those are IOU’s” Lloyd Christmas channeling the BWB
Hahahaha “each one of these pieces of paper... is a promise.” Or something like that hahaha
The spy in Jaime's camp, isn't that Tom Sevenstrings? :)
"Ahhh, that's enough music for now, lads!"
Brave Sir Robin
Love your stuff man, this podcast series is fuckin awesome man! Y’all really dive deep and are good at explaining stuff. I appreciate cha!
In my understanding, there is a lot of possibilities for Fray civil war as well as some branches have closer ties with the Lannisters or Vale houses (which is run by Balish the Lord Paramount of Riverlands). So all the revenge seekers might be helped by the Freys themselves.
Like Roslin's son will be half Frey Tully, and that branch might want Riverrun from Eammon and Genna. Also Castle Darry could be a point of contention.
I love that it is the one eyed brother that ties the noose onto Merretts neck. Odin symbol!
I imagine someone showing up at the wall like "ok we need you to restore Winterfell, but there might be a succession crisis" and Jons just like "I am _b u s y"_
I'm rewatching this series because I've been rereading the books ( Up 2 Feast) and wow the foreshadowing about what's going 2 happen in TWOW just jumps off the pages if U know what you're looking 4! Kudos 2 both of U!
Loved the Kady StoneHeart episode. I've been catching up on all of your content. I really admire your analysis. Signing on so I can curl up and read your essays, LML ☕
Your channel has made Quarantine and freezing temps in Texas.
oh man hope you and yours are okay!
What a fun video !♥️♥️♥️
You guys are so awesome
I've enjoyed these videos y'all have put out but for the love of Rhollor LML, it's HANGED!! :D
Rambling Syd didn't think so in his highwayman song,
"O my story is told and my song it is sung.
For me and my horse we have both been well hung".
(Ballad of) The Black Grunger of Hounslow.
Tune, The Old Orange Flute.
*see's video length*
aw, not even an hour :(
great stuff, guys! keep them coming.
Vengeance, justice, fire and blood
Thanks for all the river land info and how the blackfish could come back and where he could end up in the next book
So tom of seven streams was the singer who went with jamie to convince Edmure to surrender riverrun, if just to play Rains of Castamere. He was present when Jamie sent Ryam away, unsure if he gave the signal to the brotherhood that night or left the job to another spy.
Snow is the battle field.