I feel that the step lancer should be changed to a burst damage unit. Basically, you should use the speed and range of step panders to get a quick hit in on melee units without taking much or any damage in retaliation. Horse archers and step lancers together should work as harrassment units intended to pick enemy armies apart with constant small scale attacks on vulnerable units. Relying on superior mobility and alpha strike damage to avoid bad fights and pick off enemies. This would fill a rooe that does not quite exist (melee counterpart to horse archer) and would fit the theme.
Steppe lancers being good in choke-points is kind of ironic considering that in the real world they are from, you know, the steppes, which tend to be wide open.
I dont know if this is possible with the AoE-engine, but it would be pretty cool if they had some kind of "charge"-bonus as in if a steppe lancer was in motion x amount of time his next attack will have a buff.
@@themymablo I think it can be done like energized attack in League of Legends. Moving generates Energize stacks. When fully charged, It consume all the stacks and your next attack deals bonus damage.
Always hard to balance in games. I think they did the right thing to hard nerf it, so they can buff it slowly. If something is op it breaks the game if it's under powered people will just use other tactics.
@@Halvtooth Yes, "hard nerf it, so they can buff it slowly" is better than "it breaks the game". However, there is the more favorable third option: A moderate nerf. Perfect balancing is hard, but a brief comparison with knights, as SOTL did in this video, is not overly complicated.
Because that would have huge implications for balance. In team games, you rely on having really strong all-round units; Knights and Crossbowmen. Civilizations without these units either have to have a substitute (the Spanish have Conquistadors to sub for Crossbowmen), or are just plain shit in team games (like meso civs, which only have eagles instead of kts which are just so much worse for mixed unit compositions). Steppe Lancers lose to Knights AND Crossbowmen, so suddenly the Mongols would become awful in 3v3/4v4 pocket positions as they could not make Knights.
Not a bad idea, but then Cumans and to a lesser extent Tatars would need tech compensation for losing paladin/cavalier. I also think that the western European civs could lose cav archers altogether and also get some compensation: They're never used for those civs at any level, it makes no sense historically, and the only use they have them for I can think of is a "Spanish archer rush" level cheese strat.
Its 2:30 am, ive never played this game, or watched any of your videos, but for some reason im now very interested in these lanced bois Edit: i got the game a month ago it's a fucking banger, I've been wrecking my friends shit because of these videos
It might make sense since they were known fro using lancers (I think real world Tarkans were lancers) but then the Huns are from a different time period than the Mongols, Cumans, and Tatars. The Huns are from roughly the 5th century whereas the others are based on their 12th to 14th century incarnations, so maybe it can be argued that the Huns would not have an exactly contemporaneous unit with the others.
They probably came from the steppes but they don't reside in the steppes during the time where the civ is presented in the game. Also, the saddles that are commonly used in medieval era were not fully developed until early 300 AD by the Chinese. It was only widespread until late 400 AD when the Huns influence were diminishing. Without saddles it is impractical to mount on a horse and use a long pole weapon like the one shown on DE with one arm. So they left the steppes too early to have such a technology.
Man I live for these videos. Understanding the statistical differences of AOE units to the tone of SOTL is possibly the most enjoyable/relaxing video game content around.
Everybody missing the point with the Steppe Lancers. They are about a Steppe Lancer as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic. It's named like that just to trick you.
I think you missed a big comparison. Before having lancers Mongols went mangudais + hussars in front. Now you can mix hussars with lancers or go full lancers. A comparison of Mongol lancers vs Mongol hussars in various situations would have been fitting.
The reason you go hussars in front is the 0 gold cost. If you're going to invest gold in front of your mangudai, knights are the clear better choice as shown in the video. Steppe lancers don't really make sense as your tanky front line unit, when as we saw, with equal resources knights are better.
@@Jack-yv3po Except mongols don't have paladin, only cavaliers. So if you're just doing fodder, ok, hussars are cheaper, but steppe might be the rich man's fodder? Iunno, I'd probably just go full mangudai, those fuckers are strong as fuck.
@@Jack-yv3po as Mongols you should be using your gold on mangudais and siege engines. That's why you go for hussars. The cavalier doesn't offer you something significant for the gold cost. The comparison with the lancer comes from the trade off of having more hp and attack in exchange for movement speed, raiding potential and pierce armor
8 attack in Castle age, 11 in imperial. And +1 pierce armor for both ages. Maybe +10 hp in imperial. It dont have to be the strongest unit. But atm its almost useless.
I wish the Scenario Editor included an "Unpatched Steppe Lancer" unit, so we could document the magnificent Cancer Lancer for posterity :( Honestly, I think they over-nerfed the Steppe Lancer. For the size of stat hit it took, it should be far cheaper. I still wish they'd just made them extremely squishy and kept the stupid attack stats. Glass cannon cavalry would've been fun.
soo what i take from this is that the stepp lancer is more of a flaver unit that can be used in campaign and scenarios but not that often in mp, well i love any units that make the civs stand out more soo i dont complain! good work as always :)
Here's hoping they will at least give India the battle elephant unit too. Since they don't get knights they could use another cavalry option. Huns could use the steppe lancer too, and still need to get their building style fixed. Better yet, a new steppe set should be made for them and Mongols.
Willem Verheij They havent even thought of giving Indians Battle elephant . We need to Petition for this and show the support. forums.ageofempires.com/t/why-must-the-indians-be-denied-battle-elephants-we-could-work-on-balancing-but-they-should-get-them-being-their-major-theme/80288/70
As soon as the music started playing for the steppe lancers fighting on a hill I knew they were going to lose. Who remember the old Britons civ overview :D
I am wondering good is mixing Steppe lances with your other cavalry ? Let’s say instead of 20 knights, 15 knights and 7 steppes, so the Steppes can attack from behind the knights ? Will the steppes position themselves favourably in a fight ? I think it might be worth looking into compositions with steppes and cavalry and see if they are worth mixing in, if yes, what ratio.
Yeah, I've thought the same thing for Saracen Mamelukes for years now. They'd be so much more effective with Camel Riders if they'd stop forming up on the front row in line formation.
I’ve always played Saracens with those 170 hp zealotry heavy camels in one attack group up front with the 130 hp 3-range mamelukes in another attack group slinging sabers behind. Bye-bye pallydeens! :D
@@jefffinkbonner9551 Well, yes, you can make control groups but the point was that it would be more effective and easier if they would automatically fall to the back row without you having to make more control groups.
Or maybe have extremely high attack with very slow attack speed. It would encourage player to make hit&run attacks with them, as they are vulnerable after the first strike.
This is a huge buff to the Mongol strategy. Having the option of a raiding unit between light cavalry and Knight allows you to more smoothly transition and tech up your Mangudai while keeping up pressure. Yes these units arent as good as they were and yes they will he lackluster in Imp but that's fine because it is the Castle Age where Mongols struggle the most.
I use them when I’m quite sure I have superior numbers, and now I see why this works out so well. Surrounding. What I love about mongols is the camels to counter chevaliers
I like the kamayuk kind of range on the steppe lancer as I can use them to add damage to my melee units that can otherwise fit when trying to destroy an enemy gate.
Just came across this channel not to long ago so I'm not sure if you made a video on this yet, but a comparison of all the Civilization Barracks Infantry to each other would be interesting to see, including all the Civ Bonuses and Bonus techs to infantry. I think Bulgarian Swordsman with their Unique Tech might be the strongest in the game, but I could be wrong. I'm aware that Slaves win in numbers, but Aztecs have the highest damage Swordsman. Same with the spear-man line. Would like to see who has the best Barracks.
Aztecs and Vikings have infantry bonuses, but don't get halberdier. So they end up being better/same vs. infantry/archers, but have 13 attack less twords cavalry. And the only reason to make them is against cavalry.
I hope turks also get steppe labcers eventually, since they actually come from the steppe as well. This is reflected in their good cavalry archers and the cameo in the first genghis khan scenario.
Then the turks should get the cataphract too if that's the logic you go by, the turks became more than "from the steppes" so i don't think they should have the steppe lancer. Since what they used to be isn't the same as what they are now (The time period of the game)
@@starcraft2own the time of the game is really vast, it includes both the battle of lepanto with gunpowder and cannons, and the fall of the roman empire. The turks were steppe nomads for the majority of that time, and some of them continued to be so. About the cataphract, i don't know about the turks, but the persians did use them. If it was a common unit like the camel or the knight, yes, i would expect the persians to get them. The only reason to not give cataphracts to the persians is that they are a unique unit, but the steppe lancers are not.
@@cfv7461 The game's time period is vast, but it's quite clear they designed Turks around the rise to power and fall of Byzantine, which was well after they settled in Little Asia.
Hi Spirit. Can you make a same kind of video for Magyar Huszar also. Their cost effectiveness, comparison ti knights and all other sort of units etc. thanks
I still don't understand why you would build them with any civ - they're weak against cavalry and archers and only slightly strong against infantry and villages, nowhere near as strong as horse archers
Yeah, but the question is how weak against cavalry and archers ... If they are weak but stronger than the horse cavalary against cavalary and archery, than they have a space to fill ...
Cheaper than knights. For Mongols, they're a good option to techswitch into after you're done with or to compliment your xbows. It's not a powerhouse unit, but it's a good Castle Age unit for Mongols at least. Cumans and Tatars however? Just go Knights
I suspect that the steppe lancer is best when combined with mounted horse archers, being able to body block to protect the archers, or using that 1 range to help with micro (hit and run). I think historically the mongols had 4 heavy lancers to every 6 horse archers. (I use this or variant formula with the Magyar, having their unique unit as a blocker or to deal with siege, (food for gold is always a nice trade).
I think you should consider the impact of having high hp light cav/hussars as well as the horse archers. With light cav sacrificing themselves for steppe lancer range, you are significantly reducing the amount of gold you're using while increasing the chances your steppe lancers can run away and heal so you can save your limited gold intensive units. Also in combination with siege onagers, steppe lancers are far safer than light cav in the same situations.
I think there is not much fair comparison for the unit. I started using them and they seem quite powerful. One of my combos is including siege rams. If you think about, is a combo which doe snot uses much gold and is quite powerful. Adding rams helps to stop great part of archery line, while steppe can easily stop in huge groups their first counter, the Haldberdier (for example, 50 SL can stop 100 HB and 50 franks paladin cannot). In this combo, if you see full paladin enemy you could have problems, but adding pikement on the rams makes the strat perfectly balanced and improve even more the rams. My point is SL can deal properly deal with one of their biggest counters (when they are massed, but they are quite easy to mass), and just because that, it makes them quite versatile. They are not even gold intensive (even for upgrades, so, you don't need to focus everything on improving them) and combined they do in some situations incredibly well. Comparing 50 SL against 50 Paladin is not a fair fight (when you check in resources, specially in gold).
I think they should increase the range slightly, increase their speed, make the attack itself higher, the attack SPEED lower, and HP lower. The idea of a Steppe Lancer is that it can quickly maneuver and micro other melee units before withdrawing while being too squishy to endure single combat with no micro. I also think skirmishers should get a bonus against Steppe Lancers to offset the buff. Treat it like a reverse Mameluke, a melee unit that does high amounts of ranged damage from a short distance. This would make the Steppe Lancer a supremely good raiding unit and a good counter to melee units but also very easy to counter for every civ except Turks.
Historically speaking, lancers were a type of shock cavalry, which were designed to break up formations of both infantry and cavalry. To make the Steppe Lancer more historically accurate, they should be designed with that in mind. To stimulate this in game, a charge ability would be optimal, but since that likely isn't an option within the game engine, they could be designed to have a high damage attack (with trample damage) but very slow attack speed (while keeping the attack animation speed as it is), which would directly impact formations of infantry and cavalry in an open field and in choke points. It would then require players to mix in other types of cavalry, as Steppe Lancers on their own would not be effective. Steppe Lancers would essentially be anti-formation support troops. Their low HP and slow attack speed would govern this role.
How do the Mongolian Steppe Lancer hold up compared to their Cavalier? If Ressources aren't a limiting factor, who has more punsh and/or durability on the field?
Cavalier has 140HP (compared to 124), 12 attack (vs 10), 2/2 armor (vs 0/1) and attacks much faster . It's no contest, Cavalier is a much better unit and also a thing to notice that its a much cheaper upgrade than Elite SL Regardless Mongols shouldn't use either of the unit in imp unless they've a lot of them left from castle fights. Their late game comp should always be Mangudai, Hussar and siege
Light cavalry + knight hybrid needs a bit more toning down, they have +.1 more speed and only .05 behind Hussars with a ranged melee attack, far more economic gold wise; It's funny that we were comparing them with knights instead of hussars, they are definitely still broken.
Broken, how? The last time I saw an opponent use Steppe Lancers was during the Cuman reign. They've become a pet unit of mine, especially now with the Mongol ones, so I use them quite a bit... but they're pretty bad at most things except microing down Pikes without taking hits and raiding.
Getting cav archers in early castle is hard because of all the upgrades you need, the time you are likely going to vill raid. Lancers do okay in early castle coupled with camels
@fat boy Knight rush are a thing, lancers are actually better in slaughtering vills, the upgrades for cav archers like thumb ring and bodkin and ballistics will alone take you mid castle
I think they should just give European civs their own lancer line. Have a "tourney" lancer in castle that is very gold intensive. It should cost more than a knight and have bonus to cav and infantry, with good melee armor and a weakness to archers.
@@ringofasho7721 Why a weakness to archers? Archers such IRL espeacialy agenst armored knights, if you want to win a battle you need to get in there with mele weapons.
Have just started playing age 2 definitive edition and haven’t found any luck using lancers despite how much I like them. It seems it’s better to just field knights overall…
Imho Steppe-Lancers should have either some kind of anti-Cav-bonus or a resistance against Anti-Cav-boni themselves to balance them and give them a more interesting role.
Man what is the name of that funky background music? Your link to endemic sound is exactly what it is, a link to endemic sound. Whats the name of song?
Actually I think that Steppe lancers should get a bonus when dealing with spearman line. Cataphracts have extra attack against them. May be Steppe Lancers could get less damage from spearman line.
Steppe lances are still godly when it comes to razing buildings too, although not making or breaking the unit, it's just a small thing that you can take advantage of, as 60 steppe lances can probably destroy a castle faster than a few trebs can.
Probably, but 60 lancers take a lot more res and population than "a few" trebs, so it would still be an ineffective choice (better make those trebs, and use the rest of the gold and food for a combination of hussars and cav archers - more eco damage, same siegeing capabilities)
Spirit when are you going to do a vid on villager pathing after building a TC or lumber/mining/mill? Example: 8 vils construct a TC. adjacent is gold and trees I find they mostly opt for gold, but not exclusively. When do they choose farms over trees? etc. could be a good 20 mins explaining all :D
To me, the Steppe Lancer's big selling point is how little gold it costs. Massing Mangudai and Knights is a heavy investment in gold and it gets worse when you throw siege in there. Steppe lancers are worse when it comes to equal rss, but having a little extra gold while packing a bigger punch than light cavalry is a massive bonus
I think they should add Steppe Lancers to the Turks and the Magyars. I mean, sure the Magyars already kinda have a lancer in the Magyar Huszar, but since they were nomads before they got settled into Hungary I think they should have them. And the Turks were nomadic for most of their history, so they should have them too.
What about mixing steppe lancers with knights? Knights fight in front and you have a second line of steppe lancers that can also attack, while the stronger knights tank in front. Maybe do a mock battle of 30 knights vs 15 steppes and 15 knights (50/50) or with 22 knights and 8 steppe lancers ( ~75/25)?
That would hurt in the castle age,when food is being spent at great numbers.Outside the trash wars,Hussars have more of a niche roll and wouldn't be as good in normal battles,better spend all that food in kights,which would make an even better shield.
![Tarkan vs Knight [AoE2]](/img/n.gif)
AoE2:DE game designers made STEPPE lancers weak in open field.
I miss ee
I feel that the step lancer should be changed to a burst damage unit. Basically, you should use the speed and range of step panders to get a quick hit in on melee units without taking much or any damage in retaliation. Horse archers and step lancers together should work as harrassment units intended to pick enemy armies apart with constant small scale attacks on vulnerable units. Relying on superior mobility and alpha strike damage to avoid bad fights and pick off enemies. This would fill a rooe that does not quite exist (melee counterpart to horse archer) and would fit the theme.
It took them 20 years to put auto scout
ONLY A FOOL WOULD PLAY WITH STEPPE LANCERS ON AN OPEN FIELD
@@ubelmensch Nice reference!!! 👍😆
Steppe lancers being good in choke-points is kind of ironic considering that in the real world they are from, you know, the steppes, which tend to be wide open.
samiamrg7 I guess because they have a lot of damage in small skirmishes and maybe it’s their health too.
I dont know if this is possible with the AoE-engine, but it would be pretty cool if they had some kind of "charge"-bonus as in if a steppe lancer was in motion x amount of time his next attack will have a buff.
@@themymablo or in certain firmations like the wedge.
@@themymablo I think it can be done like energized attack in League of Legends. Moving generates Energize stacks. When fully charged, It consume all the stacks and your next attack deals bonus damage.
@@themymablo It's a good idea. Frankly, though, this would then have to apply to all cavalry, whether they wield a spear or a sword or whatever.
Tatars: IT'S OVER, I HAVE THE HIGH GROUND!
Knights: YOU UNDERESTIMATE MY POWER.
Tatars: Obi Wan lied to us.
...don't try
@@juanic95 congratulations. You found the joke!
Going from super OP to underwhelming and underpowered...
What is this, a MOBA?
Always hard to balance in games. I think they did the right thing to hard nerf it, so they can buff it slowly. If something is op it breaks the game if it's under powered people will just use other tactics.
@@Halvtooth Problem is they are releasing balance patches really slow, so unit will be useless for like 3-4 months min
@@cirkin50 I think it's better that way, we got more stuff per update and it's more polished.
@@cirkin50 Better than being op for 3-4 months
@@Halvtooth
Yes, "hard nerf it, so they can buff it slowly" is better than "it breaks the game".
However, there is the more favorable third option: A moderate nerf.
Perfect balancing is hard, but a brief comparison with knights, as SOTL did in this video, is not overly complicated.
Why not remove the Knight line from steppe factions and instead buff their steppe lancers? It would further their "unique"
flavor
Agree
Because that would have huge implications for balance. In team games, you rely on having really strong all-round units; Knights and Crossbowmen. Civilizations without these units either have to have a substitute (the Spanish have Conquistadors to sub for Crossbowmen), or are just plain shit in team games (like meso civs, which only have eagles instead of kts which are just so much worse for mixed unit compositions). Steppe Lancers lose to Knights AND Crossbowmen, so suddenly the Mongols would become awful in 3v3/4v4 pocket positions as they could not make Knights.
Not a bad idea, but then Cumans and to a lesser extent Tatars would need tech compensation for losing paladin/cavalier. I also think that the western European civs could lose cav archers altogether and also get some compensation: They're never used for those civs at any level, it makes no sense historically, and the only use they have them for I can think of is a "Spanish archer rush" level cheese strat.
Just reskin the knights ffs, so dumb playing with white european troops as japan or something, ruins this game.
@@z.p9997 that's how you know you take the game too seriously
2:25 I love how the Mongol lancer doesn't flinch when shot by arrows
Mongols lacer: since im stuck thanks to SOTL might as well take it like a champ
The Mangudai use him as target practice.....so he's accustomed to being shot at!
@@Fnyx_BodyWorks after receiving steppe lancer,are the mongols still in east asian?
His upload speed scares me as an old fan
I smell youtube as a full time job
Why
@@jdamsel8212 I think because SotL was never the most frequent uploader? Not 100% sure, I came late to the party and am still binging his videos haha
waaed alord in the early days he used to pump them out.
Yes dude i remember waiting weeks for an upload. But with time the upload speed went up and during sometimes it was even faster then it is now.
Its 2:30 am, ive never played this game, or watched any of your videos, but for some reason im now very interested in these lanced bois
Edit: i got the game a month ago it's a fucking banger, I've been wrecking my friends shit because of these videos
Get the game my dude, totally worth it!!
World waiting to be discovered
Go buy that game and learn how to play with them, one day you might win a tournament of some sort.
Welcome
Did u get the game?
So, should Huns also get steppe lancer?
And the release day steppe lancer was way too good and way too cost effective.
Don't forget the Turks, Magyars, and Bulgars came from the steppe as well.
It might make sense since they were known fro using lancers (I think real world Tarkans were lancers) but then the Huns are from a different time period than the Mongols, Cumans, and Tatars. The Huns are from roughly the 5th century whereas the others are based on their 12th to 14th century incarnations, so maybe it can be argued that the Huns would not have an exactly contemporaneous unit with the others.
They probably came from the steppes but they don't reside in the steppes during the time where the civ is presented in the game.
Also, the saddles that are commonly used in medieval era were not fully developed until early 300 AD by the Chinese. It was only widespread until late 400 AD when the Huns influence were diminishing. Without saddles it is impractical to mount on a horse and use a long pole weapon like the one shown on DE with one arm.
So they left the steppes too early to have such a technology.
Well, now they're neither good and nor cost effective.
Right, and now it's the opposite, essentially useless.
Man I live for these videos. Understanding the statistical differences of AOE units to the tone of SOTL is possibly the most enjoyable/relaxing video game content around.
OMG I WAS JUST GOOGLING THIS TO TRY AND FIGURE IT OUT
YOU ARE AMAZING!!!
Everybody missing the point with the Steppe Lancers. They are about a Steppe Lancer as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic. It's named like that just to trick you.
They should make steppe lancer faster than knights.
@@skulDoofen They are faster than knights.
Steppe lancer speed - 1.45
Knight speed - 1.3
Yeah but BEST Korea is also shit which means they're shit too. Stuff must have proper names or everything's undermined.
@@postblitz it's a joke
😊@@skulDoofen97
i love your videos, spirit of the law! i always get a smile on my face when i see a new video from you pop up
"Not a one-trick-pony civ anymore"🤣 well played sir. Well played.
I think you missed a big comparison. Before having lancers Mongols went mangudais + hussars in front. Now you can mix hussars with lancers or go full lancers. A comparison of Mongol lancers vs Mongol hussars in various situations would have been fitting.
The reason you go hussars in front is the 0 gold cost.
If you're going to invest gold in front of your mangudai, knights are the clear better choice as shown in the video. Steppe lancers don't really make sense as your tanky front line unit, when as we saw, with equal resources knights are better.
@@Jack-yv3po Except mongols don't have paladin, only cavaliers. So if you're just doing fodder, ok, hussars are cheaper, but steppe might be the rich man's fodder? Iunno, I'd probably just go full mangudai, those fuckers are strong as fuck.
@@Jack-yv3po as Mongols you should be using your gold on mangudais and siege engines. That's why you go for hussars. The cavalier doesn't offer you something significant for the gold cost. The comparison with the lancer comes from the trade off of having more hp and attack in exchange for movement speed, raiding potential and pierce armor
Use them in early castle before you get castles up to produce mangudai. They cost less gold and have shorter creation time than knights (6s).
in early castle they will just die to knights.
that victory music at 1:43 actually gave me hope for them :(
"If you drive them from the steppes, then and only then, we will join you."
Hehehe i read with the same voice
8 attack in Castle age, 11 in imperial. And +1 pierce armor for both ages. Maybe +10 hp in imperial.
It dont have to be the strongest unit. But atm its almost useless.
I wish the Scenario Editor included an "Unpatched Steppe Lancer" unit, so we could document the magnificent Cancer Lancer for posterity :(
Honestly, I think they over-nerfed the Steppe Lancer. For the size of stat hit it took, it should be far cheaper.
I still wish they'd just made them extremely squishy and kept the stupid attack stats. Glass cannon cavalry would've been fun.
soo what i take from this is that the stepp lancer is more of a flaver unit that can be used in campaign and scenarios but not that often in mp, well i love any units that make the civs stand out more soo i dont complain! good work as always :)
Here's hoping they will at least give India the battle elephant unit too. Since they don't get knights they could use another cavalry option.
Huns could use the steppe lancer too, and still need to get their building style fixed. Better yet, a new steppe set should be made for them and Mongols.
Willem Verheij They havent even thought of giving Indians Battle elephant . We need to Petition for this and show the support. forums.ageofempires.com/t/why-must-the-indians-be-denied-battle-elephants-we-could-work-on-balancing-but-they-should-get-them-being-their-major-theme/80288/70
Spirit of the Law, you are the best. Please do more videos on scouting strategy in mid/late game!
As soon as the music started playing for the steppe lancers fighting on a hill I knew they were going to lose. Who remember the old Britons civ overview :D
Devs now need to give Indians the battle elephant !
And maybe add it to the Saracens too?
with what bonus though? ooh
@Ulf Knudsen They have a Gold bonus, Curry and Gold are both kinda yellow-isch...
@@salildeshpande7 no need for bonus Indians have good eco and good upgrades.
@Ulf Knudsen the gold bonus lets them... curry favour.
For balancing they should add first attack a great damage(act as charge attack) while after that other attacks give standart damage
4:34 Why would I use Steppe Lancers in that case instead of Hussars?
Team games with trade? Maybe?
Really perturbed that Mongols didn't have steppe lancer, despite them coming from Mongolia STEPPES.
At least they have it now.
Indians: Where is my battle elephant?
Imagine mongols with pre nerf steppe Lancers, shudder.
Huns as well and then add a 4th eagle civ
@@gddid..1980 jeez indian missing battle elephant is so bad
AOE2:DE "You get a steppe lancer, you get a steppe lancer, you all get a step lancer!"
I am wondering good is mixing Steppe lances with your other cavalry ? Let’s say instead of 20 knights, 15 knights and 7 steppes, so the Steppes can attack from behind the knights ? Will the steppes position themselves favourably in a fight ? I think it might be worth looking into compositions with steppes and cavalry and see if they are worth mixing in, if yes, what ratio.
In the end, the pathfinding lacks a second row priority. Knights up front, Lancers behind.
Yeah, I've thought the same thing for Saracen Mamelukes for years now. They'd be so much more effective with Camel Riders if they'd stop forming up on the front row in line formation.
I’ve always played Saracens with those 170 hp zealotry heavy camels in one attack group up front with the 130 hp 3-range mamelukes in another attack group slinging sabers behind. Bye-bye pallydeens! :D
@@jefffinkbonner9551 Well, yes, you can make control groups but the point was that it would be more effective and easier if they would automatically fall to the back row without you having to make more control groups.
Steppe lancers should get bonus dmg for their first attack.
Or maybe have extremely high attack with very slow attack speed.
It would encourage player to make hit&run attacks with them, as they are vulnerable after the first strike.
Yup. Like a charge mechanic could make them viable
Or make them the 1-range cavalry version of the Ethiopian unique unit that has high attack, lots of speed, but low HP and light armor.
Since they’re already decent for raiding, it might make them more viable if they had more pierce armor, or bonus damage against villagers
😳
This is a huge buff to the Mongol strategy. Having the option of a raiding unit between light cavalry and Knight allows you to more smoothly transition and tech up your Mangudai while keeping up pressure. Yes these units arent as good as they were and yes they will he lackluster in Imp but that's fine because it is the Castle Age where Mongols struggle the most.
I still hear Spirit of the La Hire...
He still wishes to kill something.
The blood on his sword is getting dry
His sword is not bloody enough.
No disrespect but change that 2011 profile pic
@@captain1337. This one wishes to be sacrificed for the amusement of La Hire
I use them when I’m quite sure I have superior numbers, and now I see why this works out so well. Surrounding. What I love about mongols is the camels to counter chevaliers
Remember when steppe lancers were a formidable unit?|
Yeah, those times are gone.
They're back now.
@@xotl2780 no they arent
So, they serve as a mounted meat shield for archers. Great, considering mongols don't have hussars.
Oh, wait...
I like the kamayuk kind of range on the steppe lancer as I can use them to add damage to my melee units that can otherwise fit when trying to destroy an enemy gate.
Being able to poke battering rams from the other side of the wall is a good bonus. I guess.
Just came across this channel not to long ago so I'm not sure if you made a video on this yet, but a comparison of all the Civilization Barracks Infantry to each other would be interesting to see, including all the Civ Bonuses and Bonus techs to infantry. I think Bulgarian Swordsman with their Unique Tech might be the strongest in the game, but I could be wrong. I'm aware that Slaves win in numbers, but Aztecs have the highest damage Swordsman. Same with the spear-man line. Would like to see who has the best Barracks.
Japanese have a great damage output too.
Aztecs and Vikings have infantry bonuses, but don't get halberdier. So they end up being better/same vs. infantry/archers, but have 13 attack less twords cavalry. And the only reason to make them is against cavalry.
Goths would win simply because they can produce them so quick and cheaply.
You could always have a row of knights in front and a row of lancers behind, if you can manage the micro of that.
As always top notch stuff sor
I hope turks also get steppe labcers eventually, since they actually come from the steppe as well. This is reflected in their good cavalry archers and the cameo in the first genghis khan scenario.
Then the turks should get the cataphract too if that's the logic you go by, the turks became more than "from the steppes" so i don't think they should have the steppe lancer. Since what they used to be isn't the same as what they are now (The time period of the game)
@@starcraft2own the time of the game is really vast, it includes both the battle of lepanto with gunpowder and cannons, and the fall of the roman empire. The turks were steppe nomads for the majority of that time, and some of them continued to be so.
About the cataphract, i don't know about the turks, but the persians did use them. If it was a common unit like the camel or the knight, yes, i would expect the persians to get them. The only reason to not give cataphracts to the persians is that they are a unique unit, but the steppe lancers are not.
@@cfv7461 The game's time period is vast, but it's quite clear they designed Turks around the rise to power and fall of Byzantine, which was well after they settled in Little Asia.
Well the Huns were first from Chinese mainland before they became steppe but they can't get any agriculture bonus
Hi Spirit. Can you make a same kind of video for Magyar Huszar also. Their cost effectiveness, comparison ti knights and all other sort of units etc. thanks
Magyars are hugely slept on considering their win rate% on Voobly
what if the steppe lancers do double damage during it's first attack of a certain unit?
And when move another 7 tiles it can do double damage again.
"Behold! The Horde Of Genghis Khan Approaches"
"Beware the Karakithay.They are without honor"
You men! You must visit each of the outlying tribes.
"You must convince as many as you can to join our glorious army, but"....
i think they should put the steppe lancer back to 30 gold and increase their collision box size, again.
Tartars: It's over Anakin, I have the high ground
I still don't understand why you would build them with any civ - they're weak against cavalry and archers and only slightly strong against infantry and villages, nowhere near as strong as horse archers
Yeah, but the question is how weak against cavalry and archers ... If they are weak but stronger than the horse cavalary against cavalary and archery, than they have a space to fill ...
Cheaper than knights. For Mongols, they're a good option to techswitch into after you're done with or to compliment your xbows. It's not a powerhouse unit, but it's a good Castle Age unit for Mongols at least. Cumans and Tatars however? Just go Knights
They should be a civ-specific replacement for the knight-line.
@@mangonel They should lose 1v1. Maybe draw 20v20. Less HP, less armor, but cheaper, slightly faster, and with the ranged attack.
I suspect that the steppe lancer is best when combined with mounted horse archers, being able to body block to protect the archers, or using that 1 range to help with micro (hit and run). I think historically the mongols had 4 heavy lancers to every 6 horse archers. (I use this or variant formula with the Magyar, having their unique unit as a blocker or to deal with siege, (food for gold is always a nice trade).
I think you should consider the impact of having high hp light cav/hussars as well as the horse archers. With light cav sacrificing themselves for steppe lancer range, you are significantly reducing the amount of gold you're using while increasing the chances your steppe lancers can run away and heal so you can save your limited gold intensive units. Also in combination with siege onagers, steppe lancers are far safer than light cav in the same situations.
I think there is not much fair comparison for the unit.
I started using them and they seem quite powerful.
One of my combos is including siege rams. If you think about, is a combo which doe snot uses much gold and is quite powerful. Adding rams helps to stop great part of archery line, while steppe can easily stop in huge groups their first counter, the Haldberdier (for example, 50 SL can stop 100 HB and 50 franks paladin cannot). In this combo, if you see full paladin enemy you could have problems, but adding pikement on the rams makes the strat perfectly balanced and improve even more the rams.
My point is SL can deal properly deal with one of their biggest counters (when they are massed, but they are quite easy to mass), and just because that, it makes them quite versatile. They are not even gold intensive (even for upgrades, so, you don't need to focus everything on improving them) and combined they do in some situations incredibly well.
Comparing 50 SL against 50 Paladin is not a fair fight (when you check in resources, specially in gold).
I think they should increase the range slightly, increase their speed, make the attack itself higher, the attack SPEED lower, and HP lower. The idea of a Steppe Lancer is that it can quickly maneuver and micro other melee units before withdrawing while being too squishy to endure single combat with no micro. I also think skirmishers should get a bonus against Steppe Lancers to offset the buff. Treat it like a reverse Mameluke, a melee unit that does high amounts of ranged damage from a short distance. This would make the Steppe Lancer a supremely good raiding unit and a good counter to melee units but also very easy to counter for every civ except Turks.
Whats the point of the steppe lancer post nerf?
Raiding
@@joaobras3836 Why not get horse archers for that?
@@lich109 different tech tree..
@@nguyenhuyduc9151 And? They're still way better at the role.
@@lich109 i think it is an option. Just add some lancer and counter skirm. Just an example.
Historically speaking, lancers were a type of shock cavalry, which were designed to break up formations of both infantry and cavalry. To make the Steppe Lancer more historically accurate, they should be designed with that in mind.
To stimulate this in game, a charge ability would be optimal, but since that likely isn't an option within the game engine, they could be designed to have a high damage attack (with trample damage) but very slow attack speed (while keeping the attack animation speed as it is), which would directly impact formations of infantry and cavalry in an open field and in choke points. It would then require players to mix in other types of cavalry, as Steppe Lancers on their own would not be effective. Steppe Lancers would essentially be anti-formation support troops. Their low HP and slow attack speed would govern this role.
I wonder how Tatar lancers compare to the others' lancers since the silk armor buffs
How do I find your music SOTL?
ua-cam.com/video/Edyj-qxOaqc/v-deo.html
@@skyluc77 Dude, I know the song but I want more, I want the music channel.
"they arent a one trick pony civ"... THIS is why i watch these... That destroyed my pun-meter,
Tonight on Knightline; Steppe Lancers, friend or foe?
I would like to see Steppe Lancers vs Knights again but with each side having a line of Pikemen.
Great video man
Also a vid explaining the use of these two units: slingers and condotiero
How do the Mongolian Steppe Lancer hold up compared to their Cavalier? If Ressources aren't a limiting factor, who has more punsh and/or durability on the field?
Cavalier has 140HP (compared to 124), 12 attack (vs 10), 2/2 armor (vs 0/1) and attacks much faster . It's no contest, Cavalier is a much better unit and also a thing to notice that its a much cheaper upgrade than Elite SL
Regardless Mongols shouldn't use either of the unit in imp unless they've a lot of them left from castle fights. Their late game comp should always be Mangudai, Hussar and siege
IRL on an open step the tatar/mongol cavalry dominate, but when forced in to a fight europian knights would undoubtably come out on top.
Light cavalry + knight hybrid needs a bit more toning down, they have +.1 more speed and only .05 behind Hussars with a ranged melee attack, far more economic gold wise; It's funny that we were comparing them with knights instead of hussars, they are definitely still broken.
Broken, how? The last time I saw an opponent use Steppe Lancers was during the Cuman reign. They've become a pet unit of mine, especially now with the Mongol ones, so I use them quite a bit... but they're pretty bad at most things except microing down Pikes without taking hits and raiding.
So steppe lancers are worst than knights in melee and worst than cavalry archers in raiding... Why would you use them? XD
For the looks. Might be nice transition from scouts to steppe lancer and you want raiding done. Also they have lower gold cost.
Who uses them outside of this kind of stuff? They're the siege towers of cavalry.
Getting cav archers in early castle is hard because of all the upgrades you need, the time you are likely going to vill raid. Lancers do okay in early castle coupled with camels
@fat boy oh, I didn't know all those knight rushes in past 21 years weren't allowed to happen. After all Knights cost food...
@fat boy Knight rush are a thing, lancers are actually better in slaughtering vills, the upgrades for cav archers like thumb ring and bodkin and ballistics will alone take you mid castle
I wonder when will knights rightfuly get lances as it was their main weapon historicaly.
I think they should just give European civs their own lancer line. Have a "tourney" lancer in castle that is very gold intensive. It should cost more than a knight and have bonus to cav and infantry, with good melee armor and a weakness to archers.
@@ringofasho7721 Why a weakness to archers? Archers such IRL espeacialy agenst armored knights, if you want to win a battle you need to get in there with mele weapons.
Concerning raiding:
Can Steppe Lancer attack villager positioned directly behind a wall, tree or stone pile?
Yes. And they could attack a ram form the other side of a wall too. So "quickwalling" might be more difficult when faced up against steppe lancers.
Have just started playing age 2 definitive edition and haven’t found any luck using lancers despite how much I like them. It seems it’s better to just field knights overall…
Do they work fine in a mixed army with high armor units? They could attack from the second row, so kinda like a low range cav archer with melee attack
Imho Steppe-Lancers should have either some kind of anti-Cav-bonus or a resistance against Anti-Cav-boni themselves to balance them and give them a more interesting role.
Man what is the name of that funky background music? Your link to endemic sound is exactly what it is, a link to endemic sound. Whats the name of song?
what if you have some other units up front like knights, champions or pikeman. and have the step lancer poke from behind them as support
Actually I think that Steppe lancers should get a bonus when dealing with spearman line. Cataphracts have extra attack against them. May be Steppe Lancers could get less damage from spearman line.
I think it's weird that they look like they would counter cavalry (ya know, long pointy thing) yet lose to them almost every time.
Steppe lances are still godly when it comes to razing buildings too, although not making or breaking the unit, it's just a small thing that you can take advantage of, as 60 steppe lances can probably destroy a castle faster than a few trebs can.
Probably, but 60 lancers take a lot more res and population than "a few" trebs, so it would still be an ineffective choice (better make those trebs, and use the rest of the gold and food for a combination of hussars and cav archers - more eco damage, same siegeing capabilities)
Good to know!
So I'm guessing that they are a second line unit? Like camels up front and then steppe lancers behind them?
Or maybe just halbadiers up front?
Spirit when are you going to do a vid on villager pathing after building a TC or lumber/mining/mill?
Example: 8 vils construct a TC. adjacent is gold and trees I find they mostly opt for gold, but not exclusively. When do they choose farms over trees? etc.
could be a good 20 mins explaining all :D
I can't help but feel huns should have steppe lancers too
To me, the Steppe Lancer's big selling point is how little gold it costs. Massing Mangudai and Knights is a heavy investment in gold and it gets worse when you throw siege in there. Steppe lancers are worse when it comes to equal rss, but having a little extra gold while packing a bigger punch than light cavalry is a massive bonus
I think they should add Steppe Lancers to the Turks and the Magyars. I mean, sure the Magyars already kinda have a lancer in the Magyar Huszar, but since they were nomads before they got settled into Hungary I think they should have them. And the Turks were nomadic for most of their history, so they should have them too.
I figured steppe lancer would be an upgrade for hussars. Aside from costing gold how do steppe Lancers compare with hussars?
Will you do a unique unit ranking video?
What about mixing steppe lancers with knights? Knights fight in front and you have a second line of steppe lancers that can also attack, while the stronger knights tank in front. Maybe do a mock battle of 30 knights vs 15 steppes and 15 knights (50/50) or with 22 knights and 8 steppe lancers ( ~75/25)?
Hi SoTL, can you make more of the Civilisation in game versus history series videos?
Against which units are Steppe Lancers a good counter? 🤔
Can they be used in conjunction with hussar? In melee fights hussars form inexpensive meatshield while lancer attack from the second row.
That would hurt in the castle age,when food is being spent at great numbers.Outside the trash wars,Hussars have more of a niche roll and wouldn't be as good in normal battles,better spend all that food in kights,which would make an even better shield.
@@Bronze_Age_Sea_Person When i say 'hussar', I obviously imply that this happens in imp.
Mamdaguai cavalry Archer genitour video comparison?
Do you have to stutter-step micro Steppe Lancers so you can maximize the amount attacking at once?
Can supplement the light cav core by offering some extra melee oomph behind them
Awesome video
Magyars and Huns should also get this unit. Thanks for the video!
hey man what you think of the new feitorias , thanks new video maybe
when can we expect new civs reviews?
Hey are you gonna make a remake about the (Top 5) ?? with the new Civilization
What about knights mixed with steppe lancers though?
Actually the pathing and fighting over walls means vills cannot wall them out. And pathing makes them great for raiding
Are the steppe lancers faster than knights? They probably should be right?
Steppe lancers are a unit that is so weak for that cost. Reminds me of the elephant archers (at least the elephant are a good meat shield)
After receiving steppe lancer,are the mongols still in east asian?