One interaction you didn't point as particularly strong is Wootz Steel on Siege Elephants. SE have much bigger splash-radius than other trample-units and even hit units in the second and third row. At 8 Dmg they usually deal 4 trample-dmg wich gets negated by basic armor to only 1 dmg. But Dravidian SE deal their full 4 dmg to every enemy unit within 2 tiles of them. When 5 Dravidian SE get to a mass of 40 Arbs in the lategame it only takes 2 hits from each elephant and all Arbs are dead. In mass battle against meele units they actually outperform the dravidian battle elephant thanks to their bigger splashradius. A mass of 12 SE will even win costeffectivly against chevaliers when you standground-patrol them into the fight and then swap to aggressive.
Im glad they gave us at least a little bit of potential combat ability on the SE. it would feel silly that an elephant draped in armor and weaponized tusks would do as little as a ram would to units, and while I understand why we can’t be giving them siege bariants of war eles, I’m glad they go from “literally ineffective” to “at the very least an option” in some few niche matchups.
@@annaairahala9462 Also this, as I was just memeing. Though personally I think they're okay as they are. the longsword skirmisher play with them is very nice, and wootz steel helps with the infantry's already-fast building destruction rate, as you then ignore building armor as well. Surprised that Spirit did not mention that part
Pressure them even earlier from feudal, most civs would struggle hard against this as evidence by Dravidian wins by timeline that shows it win the most before 15 mins.
I think the weapon was supposed to be aimed for weak spots of the enemy like the less armoured regions, but I guess they couldn't make that a mechanic in Aoe so they chose this I guess
@@GnanaPrakash86AP I doubt thet was the idea behind it. Not when the upgrade Wootz Steel seems to attribute the armor penetration to the material of the weapon. Apart from that, a whip is also a terrible weapon to aim for weak spots.
Between the infantry bonuses and not having to put anything into horses you effectively have the goths bonus. You also get the Celt/teuton wood bonus until late in the game. These are two of the strongest bonuses in the game, in one civ, AND you get woodz Steel.
Viper did that, using the bonus wood to make 2 stable scout rush, it was fairly succesful too, but of course it falls flat when both player are in castle 11
I literally manually searched for Spirit of the law Dravidian last night because I wanted some ideas on how to best utilize these guys to say seem fun and sure enough the next day here we are xD spirit of the law mind-reader confirmed
6:46 you display supplies as one of the techs that benefits Urumi. For an analytical creator who's been working with aoe2 for a decade, that's a massive oversight.
Possibly it was meant as indirectly, as if you went infantry before Utumi's, you'd have saved on supplies for round 1... or possibly I'm reaching a lot :)
The healing on the elephants is a bit better than you let on I think since they have a lot of hp so they survive longer and therefore have more time to utilise the healing effect per unit than another unit would since those units would get one-shot most of the time anyway. It's really good on the elephant archers I think, especially if you micro them a bit to try to make a different unit getting hit each time. The tech is still not that useful but u could see it as some kind of resource income through time and having it working on as many units as possible is just a good eco at that point. :)
The thing about elephants when you're using them is you don't fear taking scratch damage here and there that wears you down. You fear taking a ton of bonus damage at once from pikes (or skirms for elephant archers) or getting them converted by monks. Or well, not being able to get to them at all because of their cost. A trickle of healing will be overwhelmed in the first case, is irrelevant in the second, and exacerbates the third problem since you need to invest stone for a castle and the cost of the upgrade.
This bonus is only good if you garrison your elephants because otherwise they get killed by being too slow. Other units actually heal better since they have more chances to escape. PS: Who at Age of Empires design thought elephants are slower than humans? Armor-clad, weapon-wielding humans at that.
Finally your Intro is back, love it! I also love the way you mixed in the stats against Cav Civ! Awesome! Somehow, I haven‘t figured out yet how to play them.
Once you get to imp, their Siege elephants are also surprisingly good general combatants with the armour ignoring splash damage and 'only' taking 44 damage from halbs compared to the 67 battle elephants take. For civs without halbs they can be really annoying to kill as just a couple of them require sending some proper military to deal with. I'm also often tempted to go for MAA & archers rather than a drush and grab supplies first as it pretty much pays for itself after 4 MAA.
Nice vid as always! Is there any chance you can look into the true cost of wonders? i mean looking into the max amount of villagers you can use, and how much does it actually cost for you to idle them building it so if there is any sweetspot in the time you gain from building it faster vs the lost income
First time i enjoy seeing a sponsor in a video, hope you get more as you truly deserve, even tho i havent plau aoe 2 in a looong time i still watch every video
And to add, one of the more rare cases where you watch several ads for the SAME sponsor without getting quickly tired of the sponsor, since SotL usually spice it up with a different touch / pun each time.
I barely play Age Of Empires 2, or RTS games in general. I've always had trouble with keeping track of different parts of the map and making sure none of my stuff is sitting idle. But I still really enjoy videos like this. Makes me wanna try my hand at it again.
With full tech tree and cheaper tech I think barracks deserves A instead of A- because you can get champion faster and easier to get halbs against cavalry.
You should compare Wootz steel to some other infantry and Cavalry unique techs, like Farimba, Garland Wars as examples. there's alot of variation to how good Wootz steel actually is
It depends on what units your opponent makes and what upgrades they get, factors over which you have no control. For that reason and also because none of the units that benefit from Wootz steel have mobility (except the light cav you totally want to be making), I'd say it's the worst of the three.
Medical corps in combination with the Dravidian stable perfectly illustrates my love/hate relationship with Dravidians. I love the easy 20pop MAA into archers with them, even more the super strong and rather easy 18 pop archer rush, with either a range and blacksmith or 2 ranges being down immediately without killing your eco. Then you have a great early game, can get ballistics quite quickly in early castle... and then when you ever fall behind in early midgame or even slightly before you just have almost nothing to defend yourself and carry yourself through to your rather strong lategame, as typical turteling and using some mobility to at least distract your opinion or snipe siege just isn't an option. But you can research a tech that - if at any point at all - will help you almost only with post imp huge elephant archer - siege ele armies. But ofc that's how they were designed and something that can happen with many civs (mongols would come to mind). To me it's just especially glaring with dravidians. I wonder what a good replacement for medical corps could be and what to do with their stable, as it kind of just feels tagged on, but offers almost zero utility. I feel like actually giving them husbandry and maybe the last armour for cav could have a big impact and actually even somewhat close some gaps for the civ (just by making lightcav situationally viable) which, for me, are a huge source of frustration. Even Ethiopians have hussar, albeit a bad version of it, and an overall way more capable stable with situational use and are one of the strongest archer civs in the game. I could also imagine buffing medical corps for battle eles and extending it to lightcav (not buffing it for ele archers as they can creep into op territory already) could actually also be an interesting idea, giving them a kind of frail but possibly cost effective mobility boost when microed nicely with regard to the light cav. But something has to be done about the elephant in the room especially imo, as it feels weird to give a civ a fully useless regional unit. Another perspective could be to have Urumis be less of a glass cannon, toning down their DPS a bit but make them less frail maybe? But yeah, the biggest sore point to me just is the stable, which just is there so it isn't not there, just as their battle elephant, which has literally zero usepoints. They never are viable in absolutely no circumstance whatsoever. Finishing that small essay off, to me the two sentiments would be: buff some small things other than the stable, optimally by replacing medical corps, and actually go bold and just scrap the stable entirely (maybe even replace their scout). Or give them something which makes battle elephants and light cav at least not a guaranteed mistake to go for, also optimally by making medical corps stronger for stable units.
Hi there! You could post this on the official forum - AOE2 Forum or Steam Discussion. It’d be really nice. Hardly people read comments here. Your points are 100% true. Why did Devs gives stables to Dravidians in the first place.? Guess Medical Corps can apply to Light Cavalry as well. Self-regenerating Light Cav with Wootzsteel is a nice idea. Not going to be OP either, since Dravidians lack the last Cav armour upgrade, Husbandry and Bloodlines. Battle Elephants are pathetic. Don’t know how to buff them. Could give Elite version of the same.
I think medical corps is underrated, especially on elephant archers, but also on their battle elephants. Looking at your results, and the new stats on medical corps, your battle elephants will actually be top-tier after about 1 minute. Add to that wootz steel and you have a surprisingly potent unit. Same goes for elephant archers really. Having a healing elephant archer is roughly like having an extra villager working. I think the big challenge with dravidians is that you need to play very conservatively and take advantage of their regeneration until you can mass an unstoppable army.
I mainly play EW so the meta is different. I open with skirmishers + spears since so many make either archers or scouts to rush. I get a good mob and start to push in feudal and then will try to castle drop right away. In castle I upgrade both units and maybe make a few elephant archers. When I hit Imp I play based on how the other players react to me. If they are making knights I upgrade to halberd. I don't think this video touched on that but the barracks upgrade bonus applies to both units so you get Halberd for 150 food / 300 gold.
dravidian Elephant Archers are probably my favourite unit to play - the dps is just insane. Also I think they could use redemption to not always get owned by a couple mangonels in castle age.
They are fun to play. Unfortunately they get wrekt by skirmishers too lol bombard cannons help, but it's really not quite enough. Wish they had useable light cav...
@@micahbonewell5994 They made it OP themselves. It used to only give +3 damage and they made it +6 by doubling the armor bonus vs stone defenses due to a glitch in their engine. They could have fixed it.
@@nemou4985 mayans and azteca used to be mega OP and now devs are scared of overtuning them again I think. I personally hate current gurjaras. They feel so cheap...
For the regen, it's probably better to think of it more like an HP bonus, where the bonus grows the longer the unit stays alive. In this case, their higher HP helps them stay alive longer and get more benefit out of regeneration. You could have a unit with low HP that regenerates super fast, so they'd be easy to kill but heal to full so long as they don't die, but elephants are tanky enough that it would just be unfair if they could top off between fights. With that in mind, you might consider doing a comparison with Bloodlines (especially since Dravidians don't get Bloodlines) to see which one allows the elephant to live longer, and under what circumstances, and if it's different for different elephant units.
Can an imperial age Urimi 1 shot a loomed villager? Think about it, Aside from Eagles they are pretty much uncatchable to other infantry. Even slipping a few in to your opponent's base when under attack can be cause for panic as vills drops like flies when they aren't looking.
They can't, but they do 2 shot them, the charge attack + normal attack (29+14) do enough dmg to kill them. FU Elite coustillier however, can one shot vills while move fast on horseback, so I don't think handful of slipped Urumi would do much, not as much as a single Coustillier can do.
All the C- cavalry ratings SOTL gave have bad stables with a redeeming factor (Koreans have hussar, Vikings surprise knight rush, Malay cheaper elephants, Britons full smith techs).
@@SIGNOR-G Free mining techs for early castle knights. It just falls off fast like the Malay, without the cheaper cost to make elephants at least cost effective.
from what i saw and calculated in the game, urumi charge doesnt apply to buildings but armore penetration does fully apply so they are a big anti-building raiding sepcialists :D in my view of course
Any chance you can make a video to introduce the intro? Like this scene is about...and comes from this video. A lot of them seems quite hilarious or epic, like the Goth's plan or demo ship taking trebuchet. I'm relatively new to the channel, only been watching for a year or two.
The big problem with Dravidians is: They do not have any useful, fast pacing unit. lets compare them with Goths: Goths have a great stable and even if not-they can recruit they unique unit in their barracks(after anarchy). Also their unique unit is good at raiding because of their ability to absorb arrows. Dravidians on the other hand need castles to recruit their unique unit and their are doing essentially the same work as their infantry with wood steel. So, without a raiding unit, without a unit which can help quickly ) 12:40 in order to get wootzl steel, you need a castle. Also this upgrade is rather expensive meaning it is more for lategame. However, in late game, having a light cav unit without good armour upgrades make them weak against castle or even tc fire. So, no it is not really useful considering the costs.
6:00 I refuse to believe that a man covered in mail all over from head to the knees with a big shield too has the same melee armour as a man who is shirtless, wears only a cloth skirt lookin thing, and SANDLES.
I love that the Dravidians invented Lightsabers before George Lucas. Truly our South Asian friends have a rich and powerful culture. From a certain point of view. ;)
Does the melee-armor ignoring count towards buildings? They also have arson, does this mean their infantry will melt buildings very quickly? Does the Urumis charge attack work on buildings? Does the Siege Elephant, counting as a cavalry, also ignore melee armor on buildings? And with their area of effect damage, does that mean they melt buildings faster too? Does the Light Cavalry (ignoring melee armor) do better than generic light cavalry against villagers with loom or Spanish villagers?
This thing you said is similar to Bengalis’ Rathas at the moment, and switching between ranged and melee mode is a pain in the ass. So, some players had proposed a change to elephant archers like Hul'che Javelineers tech of Mayans, wherein the unit throws two projectiles/arrow instead of one. Others have talked about having two men shoot from the top of the elephant instead of one person at a time. Garrisoning vills and/or infantry on elephants is also talked about😂 Why should only rams garrison infantry and vills and not chad elephants
10:12 why bengali, burmese, and khmer have same hp left? bengali elephant attacks 20% faster, burmese has +2 melee armor from civ bonus and unique tech, khmer has +3 attack, so they should perform better than generic elephant right?
@@teddyhaines6613 these three civs have complete blacksmith and stable technologies for elephants and their elephant are stronger than generic ones. why such difference is not shown in the vs-paladin scenario here?
I've come to think I'd like them with my Vietnamese... Have them as a fast Imperial sort of civilisation to boom on Imperial Skirmishers with either Elephant Archers or Urumi Swordsmen... with even Siege Onagers. So Imperial Skirmishers with 8 damage & 8 range alongside tanky front-line Elephant Archers at 7 range, with just decimating ranged units or any infantry filtering in & maybe some Urumi Swordsmen or cheaper Upgraded Infantry - in particular the Halberdiers, to flank & deal massive damage to any strong cavalry.
As a Dravidian , I like this how AoE2 represents this Civ as Naval and infantry powered with ELEPHANTS . There should be TECH for ELEPHANT SPA and Massage :)
Honestly, there should be a mod where the units wear the outfits of the civilization they are controlled under, like Celts wear Celtic clothing, Persians wear Persian clothes, etc.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
You did it Dravidians. You hold the exclusive A+ for Navy. The waves quiver at the wake of your ships
makes me proud to be an irl vegetarian dravidian fisherman
2 Civ overviews in a week? We're just being treated at this point!
the end is near
Hmmm
@@HostageMax until the next expansion
@@SIGNOR-G i meant the end of the world thought :D
@@HostageMax yeah whatever man. If you dont mind i would like to have the world last a little longer. Got things to do.
The +175 wood civ bonus on stables is really underappreciated.
who in their mind would make stables as Dravidians? Unless there's a scenario where's possible
@@Hamanuna Just like Spanish Archer rush is god tier, castle age elephant rush dravidians is the same
I think he meant it as in you save 175 wood by not building stables
@@INameIsGood 11 yes exactly :)
@@henryericson7482 so you kinda get 375 wood in feudel + castle age thats op tbh
One interaction you didn't point as particularly strong is Wootz Steel on Siege Elephants. SE have much bigger splash-radius than other trample-units and even hit units in the second and third row. At 8 Dmg they usually deal 4 trample-dmg wich gets negated by basic armor to only 1 dmg.
But Dravidian SE deal their full 4 dmg to every enemy unit within 2 tiles of them.
When 5 Dravidian SE get to a mass of 40 Arbs in the lategame it only takes 2 hits from each elephant and all Arbs are dead.
In mass battle against meele units they actually outperform the dravidian battle elephant thanks to their bigger splashradius. A mass of 12 SE will even win costeffectivly against chevaliers when you standground-patrol them into the fight and then swap to aggressive.
Im glad they gave us at least a little bit of potential combat ability on the SE. it would feel silly that an elephant draped in armor and weaponized tusks would do as little as a ram would to units, and while I understand why we can’t be giving them siege bariants of war eles, I’m glad they go from “literally ineffective” to “at the very least an option” in some few niche matchups.
Yeah this civ must be nerfed
@@widodoakrom3938 No no no, don't nerf these guys, they're my favourite!
@@widodoakrom3938 lol no, dravidians if anything need a buff since they're on the lower half for win rates
@@annaairahala9462 Also this, as I was just memeing.
Though personally I think they're okay as they are. the longsword skirmisher play with them is very nice, and wootz steel helps with the infantry's already-fast building destruction rate, as you then ignore building armor as well. Surprised that Spirit did not mention that part
A civ that is amazing at everything except handling the most popular strategies in the game: any form of pressure in castle age.
Well yeah..but not every civ needs to be specialised in stable/range on Arabia..
Pressure them even earlier from feudal, most civs would struggle hard against this as evidence by Dravidian wins by timeline that shows it win the most before 15 mins.
@@CrnaStrela the Cuman dark age rush anyone
Urumi Swordsman, wielding basically the worst imaginable weapon against armor, gets to ignore armor. Make it make sense
Agreed, kinda stupid. The Splah damage makes sense, kinda. And then ALL Infantry and Cav get this...
I think the weapon was supposed to be aimed for weak spots of the enemy like the less armoured regions, but I guess they couldn't make that a mechanic in Aoe so they chose this I guess
@@GnanaPrakash86AP I doubt thet was the idea behind it. Not when the upgrade Wootz Steel seems to attribute the armor penetration to the material of the weapon. Apart from that, a whip is also a terrible weapon to aim for weak spots.
It would be cool and more balanced if wootz only affected swordsmen. Urumi are strong enough.
@@tlsgrz6194 it's nor a whip but a flexible sword. That sinewy thing you see and mistook for rope is actually wootz steel
I really hope Spirit gets sponsored by a martial arts company, because I wanna hear from Spirit of the Brawl.
😂
How about a milk company then?
this would be a side project where he analyzes the Fighting Game rosters
👏👏👏
I absolutely love Dravidians. The first couple times I got them I panicked because they seemed weak, but I just keep winning with them.
Between the infantry bonuses and not having to put anything into horses you effectively have the goths bonus.
You also get the Celt/teuton wood bonus until late in the game.
These are two of the strongest bonuses in the game, in one civ, AND you get woodz Steel.
there is nothing better to watch while eating dinner than Spirit's civ overviews
Really looking forward to seeing someone win with the infamous Dravidian stable rush
Viper did that, using the bonus wood to make 2 stable scout rush, it was fairly succesful too, but of course it falls flat when both player are in castle 11
- Really looking forward to seeing someone win with the [meme strategy].
- Viper did that.
Of course.
@@alakazam15 the living meme too bad memes dont win tournaments
I literally manually searched for Spirit of the law Dravidian last night because I wanted some ideas on how to best utilize these guys to say seem fun and sure enough the next day here we are xD spirit of the law mind-reader confirmed
Every video that contains the turtle ship is instantly one of my favourites.
Same goes for elephant facts, love those too
New SOTL video on a Friday?! what a way to kick off the weekend!
6:46 you display supplies as one of the techs that benefits Urumi.
For an analytical creator who's been working with aoe2 for a decade, that's a massive oversight.
yeah, noticed that too
Lol I wish it applied 😅
Possibly it was meant as indirectly, as if you went infantry before Utumi's, you'd have saved on supplies for round 1... or possibly I'm reaching a lot :)
You must be fun at parties
I doubt they get 50% off on infantry armour upgrades.
TheViper will be like : "Now that SotL made a Dravidian video, my pocket pick is no longer secret :C"
The healing on the elephants is a bit better than you let on I think since they have a lot of hp so they survive longer and therefore have more time to utilise the healing effect per unit than another unit would since those units would get one-shot most of the time anyway. It's really good on the elephant archers I think, especially if you micro them a bit to try to make a different unit getting hit each time. The tech is still not that useful but u could see it as some kind of resource income through time and having it working on as many units as possible is just a good eco at that point. :)
without husbandry they can't scape at all so they will heal less than what having bloodlines does.
The thing about elephants when you're using them is you don't fear taking scratch damage here and there that wears you down. You fear taking a ton of bonus damage at once from pikes (or skirms for elephant archers) or getting them converted by monks. Or well, not being able to get to them at all because of their cost. A trickle of healing will be overwhelmed in the first case, is irrelevant in the second, and exacerbates the third problem since you need to invest stone for a castle and the cost of the upgrade.
This bonus is only good if you garrison your elephants because otherwise they get killed by being too slow. Other units actually heal better since they have more chances to escape.
PS: Who at Age of Empires design thought elephants are slower than humans? Armor-clad, weapon-wielding humans at that.
Finally your Intro is back, love it!
I also love the way you mixed in the stats against Cav Civ! Awesome!
Somehow, I haven‘t figured out yet how to play them.
If you haven't already, you should do a video about friendly fire in AOE2!
YESS OMG
Which will be the sacrificial units and civs though?
Dravidians were my first civ in a random multiplaeyr game and since they are one of my beloved, you never forget your first.
As a very new player, your videos have made the game a lot more approachable. Thanks very much for the great videos!
Once you get to imp, their Siege elephants are also surprisingly good general combatants with the armour ignoring splash damage and 'only' taking 44 damage from halbs compared to the 67 battle elephants take. For civs without halbs they can be really annoying to kill as just a couple of them require sending some proper military to deal with.
I'm also often tempted to go for MAA & archers rather than a drush and grab supplies first as it pretty much pays for itself after 4 MAA.
The cav ignoring armor applies to the siege elephant as well. Because of that, their elephant becomes a ram that can adequately fight back in Imp
It‘s just sooooo great to have the intro back SOTL, thank you for that :D
Nice vid as always! Is there any chance you can look into the true cost of wonders? i mean looking into the max amount of villagers you can use, and how much does it actually cost for you to idle them building it so if there is any sweetspot in the time you gain from building it faster vs the lost income
7:24
As a British person, can I just say thank you so much for actually pronouncing the U in Jag-U-ar.
Having the pleasure to watch a civ-overview and look forward to what SotL would come up for the squarespace-ad is not bad at all 😁
The Dravidians are one of my favorite civs as well. I really like how the devs reworked the indian civ(s). One of the best DLCs so far.
First time i enjoy seeing a sponsor in a video, hope you get more as you truly deserve, even tho i havent plau aoe 2 in a looong time i still watch every video
And to add, one of the more rare cases where you watch several ads for the SAME sponsor without getting quickly tired of the sponsor, since SotL usually spice it up with a different touch / pun each time.
I barely play Age Of Empires 2, or RTS games in general. I've always had trouble with keeping track of different parts of the map and making sure none of my stuff is sitting idle. But I still really enjoy videos like this. Makes me wanna try my hand at it again.
Just play online and lose until your ELO levels out- then you'll be matched up against people you have a fair shot at beating.
I'm stuck in bed after surgery, playing loads of AOE... This video is just the thing I needed 😎👍
Then better don't look at the stable tech tree or you'll need a psychiatrist as well. ;-)
@@Dartaen my eyes! 🤮😱
Hope you get better soon 😽
Get well
Get well soon
With full tech tree and cheaper tech I think barracks deserves A instead of A- because you can get champion faster and easier to get halbs against cavalry.
Also Urumi Swordsmen are possibly best infantry in the game
@@nemou4985
1/4 of coustillier (charge attack)
1/4 of druzhina (splash damage)
1/4 of leitis (ignore armor)
1/4 of shotel warrior (glass canon)
YESSSS! Another dose of that sweet sweet SoL stuff.
This channel is shredding.
Have a nice day man.
Came for the SotL theme tune (and the overview of a very fun civ to play imo), didn't realize I stayed for the squarespace pitch.
Team: has a naval bonus
Spirit: the negative is this has no help on land
You should compare Wootz steel to some other infantry and Cavalry unique techs, like Farimba, Garland Wars as examples. there's alot of variation to how good Wootz steel actually is
He actually published a Wootz Steel video 9 months ago
@@nkl7345 It wasnt much of a comparison video but it did at least mention other unique techs
It depends on what units your opponent makes and what upgrades they get, factors over which you have no control. For that reason and also because none of the units that benefit from Wootz steel have mobility (except the light cav you totally want to be making), I'd say it's the worst of the three.
Ahh i was waiting for this overview.
This is a certified "Indha ganame pogirin" moment
@Dprakash-f4n yes. I just likes when the unit said. Its drilled in my head.
Dravidians stable is worse than a meso stable because you actually could make a stable as Dravidians wich would be a huge waste of res.
Medical corps in combination with the Dravidian stable perfectly illustrates my love/hate relationship with Dravidians. I love the easy 20pop MAA into archers with them, even more the super strong and rather easy 18 pop archer rush, with either a range and blacksmith or 2 ranges being down immediately without killing your eco. Then you have a great early game, can get ballistics quite quickly in early castle... and then when you ever fall behind in early midgame or even slightly before you just have almost nothing to defend yourself and carry yourself through to your rather strong lategame, as typical turteling and using some mobility to at least distract your opinion or snipe siege just isn't an option. But you can research a tech that - if at any point at all - will help you almost only with post imp huge elephant archer - siege ele armies.
But ofc that's how they were designed and something that can happen with many civs (mongols would come to mind). To me it's just especially glaring with dravidians.
I wonder what a good replacement for medical corps could be and what to do with their stable, as it kind of just feels tagged on, but offers almost zero utility. I feel like actually giving them husbandry and maybe the last armour for cav could have a big impact and actually even somewhat close some gaps for the civ (just by making lightcav situationally viable) which, for me, are a huge source of frustration. Even Ethiopians have hussar, albeit a bad version of it, and an overall way more capable stable with situational use and are one of the strongest archer civs in the game.
I could also imagine buffing medical corps for battle eles and extending it to lightcav (not buffing it for ele archers as they can creep into op territory already) could actually also be an interesting idea, giving them a kind of frail but possibly cost effective mobility boost when microed nicely with regard to the light cav. But something has to be done about the elephant in the room especially imo, as it feels weird to give a civ a fully useless regional unit.
Another perspective could be to have Urumis be less of a glass cannon, toning down their DPS a bit but make them less frail maybe?
But yeah, the biggest sore point to me just is the stable, which just is there so it isn't not there, just as their battle elephant, which has literally zero usepoints. They never are viable in absolutely no circumstance whatsoever.
Finishing that small essay off, to me the two sentiments would be: buff some small things other than the stable, optimally by replacing medical corps, and actually go bold and just scrap the stable entirely (maybe even replace their scout). Or give them something which makes battle elephants and light cav at least not a guaranteed mistake to go for, also optimally by making medical corps stronger for stable units.
Hi there! You could post this on the official forum - AOE2 Forum or Steam Discussion. It’d be really nice. Hardly people read comments here. Your points are 100% true.
Why did Devs gives stables to Dravidians in the first place.?
Guess Medical Corps can apply to Light Cavalry as well. Self-regenerating Light Cav with Wootzsteel is a nice idea. Not going to be OP either, since Dravidians lack the last Cav armour upgrade, Husbandry and Bloodlines.
Battle Elephants are pathetic. Don’t know how to buff them. Could give Elite version of the same.
I just had to smile as soon as I heard the first few notes of the intro.
I think medical corps is underrated, especially on elephant archers, but also on their battle elephants. Looking at your results, and the new stats on medical corps, your battle elephants will actually be top-tier after about 1 minute. Add to that wootz steel and you have a surprisingly potent unit.
Same goes for elephant archers really. Having a healing elephant archer is roughly like having an extra villager working. I think the big challenge with dravidians is that you need to play very conservatively and take advantage of their regeneration until you can mass an unstoppable army.
Hey Sotl awesome vid like always only one small thing you ve missed this time: 200 Wood in Castle age helps a bit with fast siege push
This is the first civilization with A+ rank on the navy 🌊
Dravidians rule the waves
As someone who never played AoE, I'm excited for the Rome DLC.
Who you gonna play?
Ghost busters!
I mainly play EW so the meta is different. I open with skirmishers + spears since so many make either archers or scouts to rush. I get a good mob and start to push in feudal and then will try to castle drop right away. In castle I upgrade both units and maybe make a few elephant archers. When I hit Imp I play based on how the other players react to me. If they are making knights I upgrade to halberd. I don't think this video touched on that but the barracks upgrade bonus applies to both units so you get Halberd for 150 food / 300 gold.
Can someone pls pls tell me name of song at 13:03 iam looking for it for a long time
dravidian Elephant Archers are probably my favourite unit to play - the dps is just insane. Also I think they could use redemption to not always get owned by a couple mangonels in castle age.
They are fun to play. Unfortunately they get wrekt by skirmishers too lol bombard cannons help, but it's really not quite enough. Wish they had useable light cav...
9:52 - that Korean hussar is missing wings. It looks like light cav. What happened there?
I strongly feel that Jaguar warriors either need a buff, or to be changed all together. They seems to be quite useless.
I am of the opinion that they should be a lot beefier and a little faster.
Not gonna happen since DE team hates american civs. Like when they removed Obsidian Arrows and gave a "maybe +1 damage to skirmishers" tech instead...
@@nemou4985 That could be, i don't know. But Obsidian Arrows was way too OP.
@@micahbonewell5994 They made it OP themselves. It used to only give +3 damage and they made it +6 by doubling the armor bonus vs stone defenses due to a glitch in their engine. They could have fixed it.
@@nemou4985 mayans and azteca used to be mega OP and now devs are scared of overtuning them again I think. I personally hate current gurjaras. They feel so cheap...
They are my favorite civ in the game actually
For the regen, it's probably better to think of it more like an HP bonus, where the bonus grows the longer the unit stays alive. In this case, their higher HP helps them stay alive longer and get more benefit out of regeneration. You could have a unit with low HP that regenerates super fast, so they'd be easy to kill but heal to full so long as they don't die, but elephants are tanky enough that it would just be unfair if they could top off between fights. With that in mind, you might consider doing a comparison with Bloodlines (especially since Dravidians don't get Bloodlines) to see which one allows the elephant to live longer, and under what circumstances, and if it's different for different elephant units.
You still had one more pun in you. I’m proud. ❤
Yeah! I knew the speedy teutonic knight would make it to the new intro!
won so many games on islands with dravidians… new ship is crazy if u are able to mass it
Can an imperial age Urimi 1 shot a loomed villager?
Think about it, Aside from Eagles they are pretty much uncatchable to other infantry. Even slipping a few in to your opponent's base when under attack can be cause for panic as vills drops like flies when they aren't looking.
They can't, but they do 2 shot them, the charge attack + normal attack (29+14) do enough dmg to kill them. FU Elite coustillier however, can one shot vills while move fast on horseback, so I don't think handful of slipped Urumi would do much, not as much as a single Coustillier can do.
@@CrnaStrela Well it depends, the area damage from Urumi charge attack can kill a bunch at the same time if more than one pass...
urumis are easily killed by TC arrows 11
@@user-iz2tm5ih4e You do this as a counter attack when your opponent is in your face. Lots of vill kills before they even notice to garrison.
@@user-iz2tm5ih4e Your enemy's army isn't composed of movable TCs...
SHIVA BLESS THE DRAVIDIANS
0:12 Why's that palm tree missing a tree trunk next to the castle? Any lumber upgrades that can help here?
isn't it just castle moss?
Great video but gotta disagree on the Stable ranking, D tier at most. I can't think of any civs (other than the meso civs) with a worse stable.
All the C- cavalry ratings SOTL gave have bad stables with a redeeming factor (Koreans have hussar, Vikings surprise knight rush, Malay cheaper elephants, Britons full smith techs).
What about bohemians?
@@SIGNOR-G Free mining techs for early castle knights. It just falls off fast like the Malay, without the cheaper cost to make elephants at least cost effective.
Is urumi food cost reduced by supplies or SOTL just added it also by mistake at 6:50
from what i saw and calculated in the game, urumi charge doesnt apply to buildings but armore penetration does fully apply so they are a big anti-building raiding sepcialists :D in my view of course
Any chance you can make a video to introduce the intro? Like this scene is about...and comes from this video. A lot of them seems quite hilarious or epic, like the Goth's plan or demo ship taking trebuchet. I'm relatively new to the channel, only been watching for a year or two.
Noticing that only some of the civ overview titles were pluralized really messed me up.
The big problem with Dravidians is:
They do not have any useful, fast pacing unit.
lets compare them with Goths: Goths have a great stable and even if not-they can recruit they unique unit in their barracks(after anarchy). Also their unique unit is good at raiding because of their ability to absorb arrows.
Dravidians on the other hand need castles to recruit their unique unit and their are doing essentially the same work as their infantry with wood steel.
So, without a raiding unit, without a unit which can help quickly )
12:40 in order to get wootzl steel, you need a castle. Also this upgrade is rather expensive meaning it is more for lategame. However, in late game, having a light cav unit without good armour upgrades make them weak against castle or even tc fire. So, no it is not really useful considering the costs.
They need hussar and bloodlines.. with wootz steel they will instantly become top tier in late game
Dude, the skirmisher bonus really tied the civ together.
Lovely segway at the end
Does wootz steel cause siege to take less damage due to ignoring their negative melee armour?
Nope, that issue has been resolved long ago when they moved Leitis attack from Leitis into melee.
@@CrnaStrela ah okay thanks
The new intro is pretty cool
Awwww. The most friendly and wise voice in aoe2
They receive new Bonus on Seige. What grade do you put on this civ. Either A- or B+ ? and defence also
I like your videos man, but if this stable doesn't get an E or at least a D- then what will? Your scale might as well be C to A at this point
"Hey guys, spirit of the law here" ...well that's going to be a like from me dog.
6:00 I refuse to believe that a man covered in mail all over from head to the knees with a big shield too has the same melee armour as a man who is shirtless, wears only a cloth skirt lookin thing, and SANDLES.
Fear the Dravidian lacto-vegetarian diet. You will never take us down biologically.
I dont even play AoE 2 but im just having fun watching people play this game
Great work keep it up 👍
I love that the Dravidians invented Lightsabers before George Lucas.
Truly our South Asian friends have a rich and powerful culture. From a certain point of view. ;)
Does the melee-armor ignoring count towards buildings? They also have arson, does this mean their infantry will melt buildings very quickly? Does the Urumis charge attack work on buildings? Does the Siege Elephant, counting as a cavalry, also ignore melee armor on buildings? And with their area of effect damage, does that mean they melt buildings faster too?
Does the Light Cavalry (ignoring melee armor) do better than generic light cavalry against villagers with loom or Spanish villagers?
How to make elephant archers both good and historical?
Give them both melee and ranged attack
Yeah make sense
This thing you said is similar to Bengalis’ Rathas at the moment, and switching between ranged and melee mode is a pain in the ass. So, some players had proposed a change to elephant archers like Hul'che Javelineers tech of Mayans, wherein the unit throws two projectiles/arrow instead of one.
Others have talked about having two men shoot from the top of the elephant instead of one person at a time. Garrisoning vills and/or infantry on elephants is also talked about😂 Why should only rams garrison infantry and vills and not chad elephants
10:12 why bengali, burmese, and khmer have same hp left? bengali elephant attacks 20% faster, burmese has +2 melee armor from civ bonus and unique tech, khmer has +3 attack, so they should perform better than generic elephant right?
Every battle elephant civ has a bonus and/or missing upgrades, so there's technically no such thing as a generic elephant. So what's the question?
@@teddyhaines6613 these three civs have complete blacksmith and stable technologies for elephants and their elephant are stronger than generic ones. why such difference is not shown in the vs-paladin scenario here?
@@yuuya5985 Again, there is no generic elephant, so which elephant are they supposed to be outperforming that they aren't outperforming?
@@teddyhaines6613 different civ bonuses lead to same result you say?
@@yuuya5985 On average in this one scenario, apparently. You probably get variation if you repeated the test a few times.
feels good hearing the intro song again
6:45 wait do supplies affect urumi swordsmen??
Oops. No, I just threw all the barracks techs on the screen without thinking.
@@SpiritOfTheLaw ah, i see. Thanks for clarifying 😊
I've come to think I'd like them with my Vietnamese... Have them as a fast Imperial sort of civilisation to boom on Imperial Skirmishers with either Elephant Archers or Urumi Swordsmen... with even Siege Onagers. So Imperial Skirmishers with 8 damage & 8 range alongside tanky front-line Elephant Archers at 7 range, with just decimating ranged units or any infantry filtering in & maybe some Urumi Swordsmen or cheaper Upgraded Infantry - in particular the Halberdiers, to flank & deal massive damage to any strong cavalry.
Long time no see A+ great civ no doubt.
Whooo, the Branch Dravidians
where is that acoustic gituar intro? i loved hat intro
oh never mind it's still there xD❤
As a Dravidian , I like this how AoE2 represents this Civ as Naval and infantry powered with ELEPHANTS . There should be TECH for ELEPHANT SPA and Massage :)
They say Dravidians... But its obvious they meant the Cholas
@@caniblmolstr4503exactly 💯
How come American civs don't get stables?
Thanks for the new video, new video for showering bruv
Dravidians also have battle elephants?
Honestly, there should be a mod where the units wear the outfits of the civilization they are controlled under, like Celts wear Celtic clothing, Persians wear Persian clothes, etc.
With a myriad of civs already in game, it will take time to identify the units’ civ by their clothing.
Ohhhhh I missed this intro
With the new civs, I think it's time to do another all-tech video.
At this point, it makes sense that the AOE devs should really consult with SOTL to analyse and sense-check balance changes
Spirit of the Law Best Law
hey spirit, thanks for another great overview. I noticed that you started to leave economy out of the tech tree overview, why is that?
3:00 Since when was this change made?
Did they split the old Indian generic civ into these new branching ones?
*YES*
Hey "Spirit Of The Law", have you thought about doing Campaign overviews?
Am I crazy, or does Wootz Steel make halberdiers an okay general melee trash unit??
Ahh yes, Dravidians. My favorite Meso civ XD
Which DLC civs you guys would get first? I thinking about starting with the Gurjaras but idk