“Forseeable future” is pretty strong language. This will definitely hurt Old World. Basically zero new content/models is a terrible business strategy to kick off a new IP
GW already damaged TOW with the whole truncating through "in/out focus" for factions, it's still yet unknown road map for releases, and by dragging metal models back into the light of day. I mean, we still don't even have the full TK and Bret roster yet and we'll be lucky to see anything but an orc release before AoS 4ed drops in around June.
First Quarter Bretonnia and Tomb Kings (Winter) Second Quarter Orcs and Goblins and Dwarfs (Spring) Third Quarter High Elves and Warriors of Chaos (Summer) Forth Quarter Wood Elves and Beasts of Chaos (Autumn) 2025 Empire (Winter) Don’t take this literally this is just what I’ve heard from rumours.
@@sarahhillary7698 yea I seen those rumors too accompanied by fake images and fake tweets, but i don't disbelieve that they will generally do this match ups... Like elfs and chaos, wood and beast, empire alone(because they lacked a dance partner) dwarfs and orcs, but when they do realise them I am not even sure gw knows
Writer work is cheap (even concept arts were done by CA, GW just had to provide brief descriptions, or maybe just nod at concepts CA presents), while developing minis is actual investment.
The thing is Valrak claimed that the models are done, at least they're on the computer in CAD .... whether or not they've attempted making sprues who knows. There's no way they could carry out a plastic release this year for TOW given GW have zero ability to attend to stock levels. It's VERY obvious The Old World was not planned for a 2023 release (which itself was held back to 2024 due to Legion Imperialis). The whole thing was rushed - with brand new models not even appearing in the big rulebook etc. That's why they are so behind. @@alextrill5829
I really wish this could be it, death doesn't have a lot of factions and having some undead elf thing to be here would make some cool additions to what is already in total war, and give at least some more lore for the deepkin who feel half baked in that department.
@@alextrill5829 well obviously, they just picket 2 faction's that had Very dedicated fan bases with no alternative factions In AoS that payed money for models that where so gameplay bad they either played with 3-4 edition behind rules or handicap points to a 500 PTS difference.... Clearly they picked the "boring ones" on purpose and there could not been any other reasons than evil intent clearly.
I literally have no idea what they’re thinking. Even if they have completely indisputable proof of these factions being a net loss, the loss will be so damn much more severe by just outright saying “we’re not gonna do X”. Like goddamn TWWH3 is like free marketing in a can and they’re just like “uhhh let’s not mention these things”. Like man I’d want to be a fly on the wall at their meetings where they make these decisions.
No I think the success is changing their plans. I think within a year we are going to find out that this game is being moved from Specialist Studios to Citadel Miniatures. It depends which faction wins the schism. I think the success and the legacy faction backlash is going to force their hand.
@@ilovecokeslurpees I hope you are right. Because I can personally say that, while I have some reservations about the change in tone that I've seen, I was at least interested in the Old World. I love the old fantasy setting, so of course, I would give it a chance. But when my old army, Vampire Counts, and the army I was interested in maybe picking up, Dark Elves, both got relegated to "legacy" and wouldn't get any support, all of my interest died.
@@Raigan_Avalon I know what you mean... Mine is Skaven (no special characters... sigh) and Chaos Dwarves. At least my Greenskins made the list but my favourites are the other two...
@@pogo8050 considering the information about behind the scenes developer faction wars in 40k/30k part of GW, I wouldn't be surprised if there was the same in AoS part of GW. Probably some tabletop dev hates some CW-liason dev, and tries to include as little as possible from that.
I feel that its a production capacity issue. That said for a company that makes millions in profits, maybe its time to reinvest in manufacturing facilities.
Their january reports indicates they are "exploring options for Factory number 4", so I imagine they've done the investment. Though, it will probably take some times if they have to build that factory entirely.
Which they did by tripling their production capacity, which after Corona was still not enough which resulted in them investing in the expansion of their technical capabilities and factories for the near future. Which if you are a even remotely educated and logical person that knows how reality works means also 2 things a) that this is not something you do in a few days but rather years and b) is something you don't overdo, because you don't want to overinvest in new facilities only for them being too much after a drop of in sales (which was a reasonable assumption after the pandemic and which many video companies for example failed at and as such now have a hard time to explain their extreme stuff and cost increases while sales are normalizing again after the lockdowns). Seriously, sometimes I wonder if any of the people in this comment sections ever even worked in a company: Like also in this video "metal is easy to buy" ... yeah, no. It is well known that metal as a material for miniatures is horrendously expensive to the point that companies like Corvus Belli look for alternatives; companies like Para Bellum (Conquest) and Wyrd Miniatures (Malifaux) changed very fast to plastic or didn't even start with metal miniatures at all; and resulting in extremely expensive miniatures in a per model and size comparison (look no further than Infinity). Also with this whole "dead game" nonsense: Yep, dead. As seen by the constant increase of reddit users; the constant outselling of miniatures for Old World; the massive posts in Discord for official and legacy armies; and battle report youtubers stating that Old World battle report have at the moment a higher demand than even 40k battle report. All signs of a game dead on arrival - but hey, an anectodal story about neighbour Bob not deciding to buy Old World because Ogres are not an official faction is by far a stronger proof, right? Because anectodal, singular testimonies are such highly valued sources in science and co., right?
I’m still waiting on Wood Elves to come out Feels like it’s kinda hard to get invested in the game when I have no idea when my chosen faction will actually release
The next faction release will give us a better idea of the general schedule for releases. Right now, my money is on seeing an orc release in April/May, then a Dwarf release in the early fall. That works out to about one faction every four months or so, with the missing elements of their rosters being slowly released between faction releases. Of course, this is all dependent upon there being no major AoS or 40k releases over the course of this year and the next. Worth mentioning that AoS 4ed will likely drop in June, and people are expecting some sort of new faction release closer to the beginning of the new edition.
@@spnked9516This year for TOW is basically a soft "early access" launch & people should think of it that way. The game will only come into its own after a year or two.
@@EvilMagnitude TOW has been in development for over five years. That's over half of decade on spent on a game that was already designed, with multiple of its kits still being in active production prior to (and during) it's development. This isn't "early access", it's apprehension and a lack of investment. The fact that there's still metal kicking around in lines available for TOWs truncated launch tells me all I need to know about GWs willingness to put resources into TOW.
Honestly I didn’t want to get into old world until the new Kislev and Cathay come out. The only reason I complain about it is because 2 years ago before the launch of warhammer 3, there was a lot of hype for tabletop Cathay and Kislev confirmed by gw. Better sculpts are available in 3D print even from people on Etsy and are much cheaper than the 30yr old models we’re getting, or the massive price markup for forge world resin in the US. Hopefully it’s not super far out, but until then I’ll patiently wait for just the painting projects of select minis
Not by theory but a friend's: The were trying to counter the latest King of War announcment with their own big announcment. And it worked, because a lot of eyes went in the diretion of Old World instead of Kings of War. Then there was no need to actually make Kislev or Cathay because they had all the attention they wanted.
I find it a kind of missed opportunity that they didn't lead the release with either of these 2 factions and a chaos daemons or warriors of chaos set. It was basically the main theme for Total Warhammer 3, they could have easily bridged the 2 games with having a Kislev or Cathay army box at the relaunch.
I'm not really interested in paying premium price for a box composed in majority of 15 years old minis, so Cathay and Kislev were my hope because everything would be new models. Guess I will wait. unless the Dwarfs Box is really interesting and not too old,
I so want the Duke on Hippogryph, I really hope it comes in wave 3 (preferably with a redesign like the lord of royal Pegasus). Also, Elise Duchard on her unicorn was revealed ages ago and still not a sight of her, I hope she comes on wave 3 too.
The real issue in general for GW is the stock issues, it's not just the Old World, it's the Horus Heresy sometimes just trying to buy Troops, essentially the Core factions can sometimes be a chore. Like Nathan said GW marketing is crap. Also I have no idea why they started out with two of the factions that weren't' the most popular in old WFB
I think it's important to understand that it's not a production capacity issue. It's a couple of other issues. Firstly, caution or pessimism about likely sales levels, and secondly, a very strong aversion to storing large quantities of unsold stock. If you consider both these factors then you can understand why GW would often be out of stock on lots of items, even while having spare production capacity. Then combine this with the fact that they have at least a 1,000 different plastic kits to keep in stock, and with only 46 injection moulding machines. So, if they want to cycle through all the kits, they likely have to produce at least 20 different kits on each machine, which would require swapping the moulds in and out 20 times on each machine, depending on how many sprues can be used at the same time in each machine, and how many sprues are in each kit. And every time they swap the moulds over, that is time the machine isn't producing, so ideally they want to minimise the number of times they switch the moulds over - so they ideally want to be able to predict exactly how many of each kit they will sell in the next several months, produce only that many kits, and then - if they were pessimistic and sold out - they aren't going to want to interrupt the production schedule to swap that mould back in and run it for an hour, before swapping it back out again. They'd rather wait a month or two until its slot came back up on the production schedule. Adding an extra 20 machines doesn't really change any of these decisions that GW are making. They're not going to want to produce a large surplus of kits, so that they never go out of stock, because they'd then lose a lot of money paying to store them all. It sounds counterintuitive, but, from GW's point of view, if they always had every item in stock then they would have considered that they'd failed. Look at it like this. If an item is never out of stock, then that means there is at least one unit of that item that GW are paying to store in their warehouse for an indefinite period of time, that they never sell, and therefore that item is losing them a huge heap of money. So they're much better off not producing that single unit of that item, and going out of stock. And the other thing to bear in mind is that, if they are out of stock on something they have no idea how many sales they are missing out on. They may reason that many of those sales are only delayed, and not lost. And even if some are lost, they will struggle to determine whether they have lost out on 10 sales, 1,000 sales, or 23,610 sales. How would they know? But, if they over-produce on something then they will know exactly how many items they still have sitting in their warehouse, eating up storage costs. This creates a bias towards being cautious on their production forecasts, because over-producing will be penalised much more than under-producing. Remember, this is all a question of their internal decision-making. It;s a choice not to meet demand, for fear of being left with surplus stock. If they had more production capacity the likelihood is that the issue with items being out of stock would largely be unchanged, but instead GW would be able to reduce their staffing costs by running a 16/5 shift pattern, instead of a 24/5 pattern.
Same like in Iceland we have only 1 local store selling warhammer and theh havent got restock for almost 2 months of old old world starter boxes. And the demand for them was really huge.
Dude, there’s no need to do a re-design of the Green Knight until the end of time. It’s one of the greatest GW sculpts of all time!! One of those models that should never go out of production/sale!!
When they first showed the Kislev and Cathay “old world” articles I knew they sere just showing off Total War concept work. I doubt we’ll ever see them, especially now they’re focusing on so few factions.
3rd Wave for Tomb Kings - Casket and Bone Giant. 3rd Wave for Bretonnians - Trebuchet, Men-at-Arms, Peasant Bowmen Plus then whatever other characters they want to add.
It's weird that they're micromanaging CA so fucking hard about Kislev presentation when they don't have any intention to do anything themselves with Kislev. That said, GW bungle pretty much everything since they're continually more concerned with being litigious and petty than they are about rolling out their products competently.
10:11 I'm in Australia, in a city. And I've been unable to get a rule book as Every store sold out on day one. That's GW store and local game store. I've talked to the store owners and most only got given 8 books, and GW stores got about 20 each. By my reckoning, my city got a total of about 70-80 rule books in total. We have a local Facebook group for warhammer fantasy of close to 300 people. There are a lot of us who still have no stock to buy here or online.
I’m hoping because Tomb Kings never got Forgeworld units that they’ll shift the focus onto giving them kits for their Hierotitan, Khemric Titan and other units which were omitted
posted this on another video, but here's my take: I think they've discovered that they will be able to milk sales from the existing miniatures from the 9 core factions, and then possibly do the same from the legacy factions thereafter for the foreseeable future. Releasing Kislev/Cathay would deeply cut into the amount of sales they can get from the rerelease of the 9 core factions. Those armies may come eventually, but I see those coming years from now.
I agree adding more factions is what you do when everything else stops selling and probably what they should have done years ago instead of killing off the game it brings people back with something shiny and new to collect
I get the impression there are people actively trying to kill Warhammer Fantasy 2.0, as they are spreading misinformation that the game is just a short-term cash grab. Despite all the hype and sales
what do you mean by witch elves got shafted? i think they have some miner issues like murdurus being redundant and the fact you cant really fill your core out with them because you can only take one core unit (i would love a blood cult faction that fixes that) but for the most part they are pretty good.
Not surprising that Kislev and Cathay are not coming anytime soon.they’ll be re releasing all the other armies that have had minis before they start making entirely new armies.
Some of those legacy factions are my favorites, I know some of them dont have room to fit in certain lore perspectives, but its very annoying to know they potentially will never get updates or new models, the only faction I have to look forward to is the high elves, my hype is kinda dead tbh.
I'm amazed at how few people ever seem to have worked for a large company, they seem totally clueless in how they work and how they communicate. Kislev and Cathay were not shown off AT ALL in this past year as they've been building up hype for the actual released of the product. Not a single model. Period. At all. How clueless can you be? They probably haven't even commissioned the digital sculpts for those armies to be made yet. GW executives maybe haven't even decided if they think it's a worthwhile investment for those models to be made yet. They're not coming this year, they're not coming next year, and unless the company completely rethinks the situation and puts them on a fast track to be done faster than usual, they're not coming the year after next year either. WarCom articles definitely led the community on, but people need to start picking up on the obvious as well.
Maps of Kislev and Cathay for the Old world were some of the things first showed off after the old world was announced. Why take the time to develop those if they aren’t part of the foreseeable future? To me that speaks volumes that GW is a mess right now concerning the old world
@@Foe-Hammer Because it was in tandem of WH3 Total War and was in no intention to be in The Old World. They had to build the lore and unit designs for Total War and than showed it for Old World, they never had any intention of making them actual armies on tabletop. All they showed was concept art taht matches exactly the models in the video game and the map as well
Lost interest in the Old World as soon as they mentioned that some original key factions wont be getting new rules or models. And i was actually pretty hyped for its return when it was announced years back.
Honestly, I'm torn about getting a Scorpion, some Carrion and Ushabti.... depends on the price for the former 2 but the Ushabti are damn expensive... though I want one of each unit cuz the models are so cool... =_=; Oh and I'll deffo need a Necrotect.
@@AM-uw3gp Yeah they are that painful to buy tbh.. they do look amazing though. Dunno if I'd field them which is part of what holds me back. They don't fit into the general theme I made for my guys. (Roman Legionaries so bricks and bricks of infantry backed by chariots)
i think they will reboot in less then 3 years. necromunda did it a bit over a year with three months between releases so i think we will see it in a year and a half to two years depending if they are going to give us two factions a quarter like say we get dwarfs along side orcs in march
I swear it's like GW doesn't even want to make money or something Do they even know how much the Chinese Warhammer community want Catchay? (They should because many years ago the leader of that community literally paid them a visit to express how much money they can make if they do this correctly)
To be honest I feel like GW is constantly trying to scam people and we have to avoid constantly dirty tricks. Pretty sure when they have sold enough old stuff for old world an announcement will pop out :"hey we have not planned for kislev and chatay but we see lot of you were upset and we decide to listen at you, so they will be released next month with a full brand new sculpted miniature range, just in time for us next price rising"
I hate to sound like an asshole to the fans of fantasy I enjoy it but AoS lore and setting and models completely blow old world out of the water. It's clear GW are re-thinking trying to make the old world a thing. I have a feeling it will die a second death pretty fast lol. Who would have thought too much of a focus on chaos killed warhammer fantasy twice LOL. Now let's see if Warhammer 3 can survive long enough to get Nippon not seeming likely if the game doesn't make it chaos in a way will have killed warhammer fantasy 3 separate times roflmao.
No Cathay & Kislev shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. GW is already struggling to supply 40k and AoS - the titles they actually care about - so why would they strain their lines even more for the sake of a third title they clearly don't have faith in. I've said it before, I'll say it again - I feel like my paranoia regarding TOW being a second, intentional and final, grave for Fantasy is becoming more and more vindicated.
Too bad, GW doesn't want my money. It's time to go back to KoW and create an army in the style of Cathay. Kislev and Cathay were very popular in Warhamer Total War III and GW is selling old models for Tomb Kings of Khemri. I am disappointed with this information.
I wasn't terribly impressed by TWW's depictions of Cathay and Kislev so it is probably for the best if they leave those in the oven for a while longer. Both factions seemed kind of out of place and jarring compared to the tradtional factons and in terms of aesthetics it seems like they would be a better fit for Age of Sigmar rather than oldhammer.
"For the foreseeable future" is just weasel talk. Most of the models are already sculpted. They'll release it when they have production capacity I guess.
@@feuerklinge9004 He means that GW's likely finished to create the models and could show them if they wanted to, but the factories have not create any of the molds (required for production). Basically, the two faction exist, but aren't not "releasable" due to production difficulties.
@@feuerklinge9004 not sure I can say anything that would convince you how I know - everyone claims to have an uncle who works at GW, after all! - suffice to say that new models have been designed for Kislev and Cathay. Which shouldn't be a surprising claim; they've openly talked about working closely with CA in designing the new factions.
The game is completely dead on arrival and in fact it's quite something seeing GW kill this game in such an over-the-top manner. After laughing at players argue over the "nuances" of this poorly written draft ruleset printed in hardback watching pathetic UA-camrs desperate for freebies from GW; with a grand total of one academic who happens to play Warhammer being critical of the bizarre design choices of this dead game (linehammer etc). I have to say I was taken aback by people caring about Kislev and Cathay given how BAD those factions look in Total War and how BAD the earlier art previews were. Nothing grim dark about them. The game is dead: GW can't shift the highly-in-demand Pegasus Knights because they priced them at £37.50, even with a 20% discount FLGSs can't shift them. So what do GW do? Price 3 Tomb King Chariots at £47.50 lmao. They're charging 36 old 1997 TK skeletons at £47.50. What killed Fantasy? Stupidly complex rules; insanely highly prices; and lack of support. Given it's still impossible - 2 months in - to fully play Brets as the most basic stuff one might need: Dukes and Barons on foot/mounted are permanently unavailable outside limited made-to-order (which has passed!) I'd say it's safe to say lack of support is present giving us the tripple fatal errors that killed WFB all lined up. Dead on arrival. Made to fail. Killed before it had a chance. And don't give one BS about it's "selling out" given how very few boxes are in circulation anyway. Enjoy your 2003 Bret men-at-arms with misaligned hands lol. I bought all the books to support this game but let's not pretend this is going to end well. And toxic posivity, pretending this is all cool is going to KILL THIS GAME HARDER.
Gw is a joke. At this point i am sure they have 1 man making every model by hand with a chefs knife. How can they never have any product of any kind? They shouldn't even be moving forward with old world until they have an aircraft hanger full of ready to ship boxes of every single faction, including kislev and cathay. No wonder they hate 3d printers, made their entire manufacturing processes defunct and archaic overnight. Not that it wasn't already. They should just sell model files and people can "manufacture"their own quantities at will.
GW must be kicking themselves... they killed off warhammer right as total war started taking off. Now they bring it back as total war is dying out. Could you imagine how much money they could have made if they timed model releases with army and unit releases in the game!? But no... they uh..dont know how to do business lol
Sorry for the delay regarding the news been super busy with some stuff that I will show you guys soon :)
“Forseeable future” is pretty strong language. This will definitely hurt Old World. Basically zero new content/models is a terrible business strategy to kick off a new IP
It hasnt even come out and its already dead. You can already hear the HYENAS in the distance
GW already damaged TOW with the whole truncating through "in/out focus" for factions, it's still yet unknown road map for releases, and by dragging metal models back into the light of day. I mean, we still don't even have the full TK and Bret roster yet and we'll be lucky to see anything but an orc release before AoS 4ed drops in around June.
@@brunobaia7898 TOW is already out?!
New IP? That is literally milking old models with 0 investment from their part, offering them with ridiculous pricing. Lmao.
There have been multiple new models already for just TK/Bretonnia. Cathay and Kislev will come eventually if TOW is a long term success
Bit disappointed that Kislev is pushed years forward, but more disappointed that we still don't have schedule for the core races
First Quarter Bretonnia and Tomb Kings (Winter)
Second Quarter Orcs and Goblins and Dwarfs (Spring)
Third Quarter High Elves and Warriors of Chaos (Summer)
Forth Quarter Wood Elves and Beasts of Chaos (Autumn)
2025 Empire (Winter)
Don’t take this literally this is just what I’ve heard from rumours.
@@sarahhillary7698 yea I seen those rumors too accompanied by fake images and fake tweets, but i don't disbelieve that they will generally do this match ups... Like elfs and chaos, wood and beast, empire alone(because they lacked a dance partner) dwarfs and orcs, but when they do realise them I am not even sure gw knows
@@sarahhillary7698This was confirmed fake/speculation
Seems weird for GW to suddenly be so active in Cathay and Kislev for TWWH and then say they're not coming out for a long time in ToW.
No old models to rerelease
@@lb2791 it really seems like GW wanted to invest absolutely minimal amount of funds in the release The Old World
Writer work is cheap (even concept arts were done by CA, GW just had to provide brief descriptions, or maybe just nod at concepts CA presents), while developing minis is actual investment.
The thing is Valrak claimed that the models are done, at least they're on the computer in CAD .... whether or not they've attempted making sprues who knows. There's no way they could carry out a plastic release this year for TOW given GW have zero ability to attend to stock levels.
It's VERY obvious The Old World was not planned for a 2023 release (which itself was held back to 2024 due to Legion Imperialis). The whole thing was rushed - with brand new models not even appearing in the big rulebook etc. That's why they are so behind.
@@alextrill5829
I notice no comment on Vampire coast though, so... VAMPIRE COAST CONFIRMED WAVE 2. GET HYPE BOIS!
This is glass half full thinking!
I really wish this could be it, death doesn't have a lot of factions and having some undead elf thing to be here would make some cool additions to what is already in total war, and give at least some more lore for the deepkin who feel half baked in that department.
I really doubt that. Considering they went for Tomb Kings and Bretonnia as first choice, they are not interested in any interesting factions.
@@alextrill5829 well obviously, they just picket 2 faction's that had Very dedicated fan bases with no alternative factions In AoS that payed money for models that where so gameplay bad they either played with 3-4 edition behind rules or handicap points to a 500 PTS difference.... Clearly they picked the "boring ones" on purpose and there could not been any other reasons than evil intent clearly.
@@alextrill5829 yeah, rather unlikely. Almost like it was a joke rather than an actual predictionm
I'd say that GW is working really hard to kill the Old World in the crib, with murdering half the old factions and now icing Kislev and Cathey.
I literally have no idea what they’re thinking. Even if they have completely indisputable proof of these factions being a net loss, the loss will be so damn much more severe by just outright saying “we’re not gonna do X”. Like goddamn TWWH3 is like free marketing in a can and they’re just like “uhhh let’s not mention these things”. Like man I’d want to be a fly on the wall at their meetings where they make these decisions.
No I think the success is changing their plans. I think within a year we are going to find out that this game is being moved from Specialist Studios to Citadel Miniatures. It depends which faction wins the schism. I think the success and the legacy faction backlash is going to force their hand.
@@ilovecokeslurpees I hope you are right. Because I can personally say that, while I have some reservations about the change in tone that I've seen, I was at least interested in the Old World. I love the old fantasy setting, so of course, I would give it a chance.
But when my old army, Vampire Counts, and the army I was interested in maybe picking up, Dark Elves, both got relegated to "legacy" and wouldn't get any support, all of my interest died.
@@Raigan_Avalon I know what you mean... Mine is Skaven (no special characters... sigh) and Chaos Dwarves. At least my Greenskins made the list but my favourites are the other two...
@@pogo8050 considering the information about behind the scenes developer faction wars in 40k/30k part of GW, I wouldn't be surprised if there was the same in AoS part of GW. Probably some tabletop dev hates some CW-liason dev, and tries to include as little as possible from that.
I feel that its a production capacity issue. That said for a company that makes millions in profits, maybe its time to reinvest in manufacturing facilities.
Their january reports indicates they are "exploring options for Factory number 4", so I imagine they've done the investment. Though, it will probably take some times if they have to build that factory entirely.
Which they did by tripling their production capacity, which after Corona was still not enough which resulted in them investing in the expansion of their technical capabilities and factories for the near future. Which if you are a even remotely educated and logical person that knows how reality works means also 2 things a) that this is not something you do in a few days but rather years and b) is something you don't overdo, because you don't want to overinvest in new facilities only for them being too much after a drop of in sales (which was a reasonable assumption after the pandemic and which many video companies for example failed at and as such now have a hard time to explain their extreme stuff and cost increases while sales are normalizing again after the lockdowns).
Seriously, sometimes I wonder if any of the people in this comment sections ever even worked in a company: Like also in this video "metal is easy to buy" ... yeah, no. It is well known that metal as a material for miniatures is horrendously expensive to the point that companies like Corvus Belli look for alternatives; companies like Para Bellum (Conquest) and Wyrd Miniatures (Malifaux) changed very fast to plastic or didn't even start with metal miniatures at all; and resulting in extremely expensive miniatures in a per model and size comparison (look no further than Infinity).
Also with this whole "dead game" nonsense: Yep, dead. As seen by the constant increase of reddit users; the constant outselling of miniatures for Old World; the massive posts in Discord for official and legacy armies; and battle report youtubers stating that Old World battle report have at the moment a higher demand than even 40k battle report. All signs of a game dead on arrival - but hey, an anectodal story about neighbour Bob not deciding to buy Old World because Ogres are not an official faction is by far a stronger proof, right? Because anectodal, singular testimonies are such highly valued sources in science and co., right?
You seem like you need a snickers bar man @@BlackChrom3
I’m still waiting on Wood Elves to come out
Feels like it’s kinda hard to get invested in the game when I have no idea when my chosen faction will actually release
The next faction release will give us a better idea of the general schedule for releases. Right now, my money is on seeing an orc release in April/May, then a Dwarf release in the early fall. That works out to about one faction every four months or so, with the missing elements of their rosters being slowly released between faction releases.
Of course, this is all dependent upon there being no major AoS or 40k releases over the course of this year and the next. Worth mentioning that AoS 4ed will likely drop in June, and people are expecting some sort of new faction release closer to the beginning of the new edition.
@@spnked9516This year for TOW is basically a soft "early access" launch & people should think of it that way. The game will only come into its own after a year or two.
@@EvilMagnitude TOW has been in development for over five years. That's over half of decade on spent on a game that was already designed, with multiple of its kits still being in active production prior to (and during) it's development. This isn't "early access", it's apprehension and a lack of investment.
The fact that there's still metal kicking around in lines available for TOWs truncated launch tells me all I need to know about GWs willingness to put resources into TOW.
You can use slyventh from aos…
Honestly I didn’t want to get into old world until the new Kislev and Cathay come out. The only reason I complain about it is because 2 years ago before the launch of warhammer 3, there was a lot of hype for tabletop Cathay and Kislev confirmed by gw. Better sculpts are available in 3D print even from people on Etsy and are much cheaper than the 30yr old models we’re getting, or the massive price markup for forge world resin in the US. Hopefully it’s not super far out, but until then I’ll patiently wait for just the painting projects of select minis
Not a tabletop player, but I thought Cathay and Kislev would be the main focus of the old world🤷🏽♂️
I believe that was their plan and then their budget was slashed and they went with Plan B
Not by theory but a friend's: The were trying to counter the latest King of War announcment with their own big announcment. And it worked, because a lot of eyes went in the diretion of Old World instead of Kings of War.
Then there was no need to actually make Kislev or Cathay because they had all the attention they wanted.
I find it a kind of missed opportunity that they didn't lead the release with either of these 2 factions and a chaos daemons or warriors of chaos set. It was basically the main theme for Total Warhammer 3, they could have easily bridged the 2 games with having a Kislev or Cathay army box at the relaunch.
I'm not really interested in paying premium price for a box composed in majority of 15 years old minis, so Cathay and Kislev were my hope because everything would be new models. Guess I will wait. unless the Dwarfs Box is really interesting and not too old,
Yeah this totally smacks of supply chain problems.
I’m way more cynical. I see this as not caring about the old world as anything more than a quick cash grab.
I think the slow release is a blessing it matches my slow painting
I so want the Duke on Hippogryph, I really hope it comes in wave 3 (preferably with a redesign like the lord of royal Pegasus). Also, Elise Duchard on her unicorn was revealed ages ago and still not a sight of her, I hope she comes on wave 3 too.
The real issue in general for GW is the stock issues, it's not just the Old World, it's the Horus Heresy sometimes just trying to buy Troops, essentially the Core factions can sometimes be a chore. Like Nathan said GW marketing is crap. Also I have no idea why they started out with two of the factions that weren't' the most popular in old WFB
In my community is basically a constant headache for the ammount of faq they need to do to fix these rules, I wish it was just for the legacy armies
almost as if they rushed this all out...
the Bone GIant and the Casket of Souls are still missing i think
Such a silly thing for them to keep saying, it just whips up a frenzy!
I think it's important to understand that it's not a production capacity issue. It's a couple of other issues. Firstly, caution or pessimism about likely sales levels, and secondly, a very strong aversion to storing large quantities of unsold stock. If you consider both these factors then you can understand why GW would often be out of stock on lots of items, even while having spare production capacity.
Then combine this with the fact that they have at least a 1,000 different plastic kits to keep in stock, and with only 46 injection moulding machines. So, if they want to cycle through all the kits, they likely have to produce at least 20 different kits on each machine, which would require swapping the moulds in and out 20 times on each machine, depending on how many sprues can be used at the same time in each machine, and how many sprues are in each kit. And every time they swap the moulds over, that is time the machine isn't producing, so ideally they want to minimise the number of times they switch the moulds over - so they ideally want to be able to predict exactly how many of each kit they will sell in the next several months, produce only that many kits, and then - if they were pessimistic and sold out - they aren't going to want to interrupt the production schedule to swap that mould back in and run it for an hour, before swapping it back out again. They'd rather wait a month or two until its slot came back up on the production schedule.
Adding an extra 20 machines doesn't really change any of these decisions that GW are making. They're not going to want to produce a large surplus of kits, so that they never go out of stock, because they'd then lose a lot of money paying to store them all.
It sounds counterintuitive, but, from GW's point of view, if they always had every item in stock then they would have considered that they'd failed. Look at it like this. If an item is never out of stock, then that means there is at least one unit of that item that GW are paying to store in their warehouse for an indefinite period of time, that they never sell, and therefore that item is losing them a huge heap of money. So they're much better off not producing that single unit of that item, and going out of stock.
And the other thing to bear in mind is that, if they are out of stock on something they have no idea how many sales they are missing out on. They may reason that many of those sales are only delayed, and not lost. And even if some are lost, they will struggle to determine whether they have lost out on 10 sales, 1,000 sales, or 23,610 sales. How would they know? But, if they over-produce on something then they will know exactly how many items they still have sitting in their warehouse, eating up storage costs. This creates a bias towards being cautious on their production forecasts, because over-producing will be penalised much more than under-producing.
Remember, this is all a question of their internal decision-making. It;s a choice not to meet demand, for fear of being left with surplus stock. If they had more production capacity the likelihood is that the issue with items being out of stock would largely be unchanged, but instead GW would be able to reduce their staffing costs by running a 16/5 shift pattern, instead of a 24/5 pattern.
Same like in Iceland we have only 1 local store selling warhammer and theh havent got restock for almost 2 months of old old world starter boxes. And the demand for them was really huge.
Dude, there’s no need to do a re-design of the Green Knight until the end of time. It’s one of the greatest GW sculpts of all time!! One of those models that should never go out of production/sale!!
Bretonnia still needs the Prophetess on Unicorn release in FW resin also
now as much as I would worry about miniatures, I have an alternative to going out and buying minis.
Tabletop Simulator.
When they first showed the Kislev and Cathay “old world” articles I knew they sere just showing off Total War concept work. I doubt we’ll ever see them, especially now they’re focusing on so few factions.
3rd Wave for Tomb Kings - Casket and Bone Giant.
3rd Wave for Bretonnians - Trebuchet, Men-at-Arms, Peasant Bowmen
Plus then whatever other characters they want to add.
It's weird that they're micromanaging CA so fucking hard about Kislev presentation when they don't have any intention to do anything themselves with Kislev. That said, GW bungle pretty much everything since they're continually more concerned with being litigious and petty than they are about rolling out their products competently.
You forgot the Necrolith Colossus (Bone Giant) and the Casket of Souls (only ones i think are still missing)
I can’t event get my hands on the rule book or the army books in my area yet.
@@zaynevanday142Yeah. I already have armies so those of us that do are being punished I guess.
Nathan you are doing a great job, keep it up
I'm currently bidding on the core rule book on Ebay because I was told by my local game shop that they were written on unobtanium.
10:11 I'm in Australia, in a city. And I've been unable to get a rule book as Every store sold out on day one. That's GW store and local game store. I've talked to the store owners and most only got given 8 books, and GW stores got about 20 each.
By my reckoning, my city got a total of about 70-80 rule books in total.
We have a local Facebook group for warhammer fantasy of close to 300 people.
There are a lot of us who still have no stock to buy here or online.
I’m hoping because Tomb Kings never got Forgeworld units that they’ll shift the focus onto giving them kits for their Hierotitan, Khemric Titan and other units which were omitted
posted this on another video, but here's my take: I think they've discovered that they will be able to milk sales from the existing miniatures from the 9 core factions, and then possibly do the same from the legacy factions thereafter for the foreseeable future. Releasing Kislev/Cathay would deeply cut into the amount of sales they can get from the rerelease of the 9 core factions. Those armies may come eventually, but I see those coming years from now.
I agree adding more factions is what you do when everything else stops selling and probably what they should have done years ago instead of killing off the game it brings people back with something shiny and new to collect
Tomb Kings still need the casket and giant. That's wave 3.
I get the impression there are people actively trying to kill Warhammer Fantasy 2.0, as they are spreading misinformation that the game is just a short-term cash grab. Despite all the hype and sales
AoS players are rampant in their attempts to derail any Old World discussion, and then try to label the community toxic for calling them out.
turns out covid bubbles were bubbles and not the basis for sustainable growth. Imagine that
I feel like gw likes to shoot themselves in the foot
what do you mean by witch elves got shafted? i think they have some miner issues like murdurus being redundant and the fact you cant really fill your core out with them because you can only take one core unit (i would love a blood cult faction that fixes that) but for the most part they are pretty good.
Wave three tomb kings will have to include the casket of souls and the necrolith colossus.
I’m just waiting for empire stuff, not too fussed about starting up another army.
Not surprising that Kislev and Cathay are not coming anytime soon.they’ll be re releasing all the other armies that have had minis before they start making entirely new armies.
I still don't have my box that I preordered on the 6th of Januari. I would of course want them to first fulfill the orders they already got paid for.
I just received mine yesterday I thought I was the last person in the world, hang in there mate it’ll turn up soon
just seen the core box sets are available to buy in the UK!
on a side note i cant believe they haven't released template kits
Damn, the reason why i want to jump in old world was for cathay
I wonder if chaos dwarfs are about to get a release for AoS this edition so that's what they got rules?
Yeahhh my boy the Green Knight is back
If they could just release the army book, even just a draft to look at
Cathay deserves a non dragon legendary lord, they all feel identical. Other than that i think they are pretty decent.
there needs to be a total war Warhammer old world
Some of those legacy factions are my favorites, I know some of them dont have room to fit in certain lore perspectives, but its very annoying to know they potentially will never get updates or new models, the only faction I have to look forward to is the high elves, my hype is kinda dead tbh.
the good thing about them taking it so slow is that they legacy factions are going to stay relevant for a very long time.
I'm amazed at how few people ever seem to have worked for a large company, they seem totally clueless in how they work and how they communicate. Kislev and Cathay were not shown off AT ALL in this past year as they've been building up hype for the actual released of the product. Not a single model. Period. At all. How clueless can you be? They probably haven't even commissioned the digital sculpts for those armies to be made yet. GW executives maybe haven't even decided if they think it's a worthwhile investment for those models to be made yet. They're not coming this year, they're not coming next year, and unless the company completely rethinks the situation and puts them on a fast track to be done faster than usual, they're not coming the year after next year either. WarCom articles definitely led the community on, but people need to start picking up on the obvious as well.
Maps of Kislev and Cathay for the Old world were some of the things first showed off after the old world was announced. Why take the time to develop those if they aren’t part of the foreseeable future? To me that speaks volumes that GW is a mess right now concerning the old world
Corp mislead people wilth markting people get mad. Doesn't matter how big or small a company is poop communication is still poop communication
@@Foe-Hammer Because it was in tandem of WH3 Total War and was in no intention to be in The Old World. They had to build the lore and unit designs for Total War and than showed it for Old World, they never had any intention of making them actual armies on tabletop. All they showed was concept art taht matches exactly the models in the video game and the map as well
Old worlds first announcement had Cathay and kislev concept art
It was misleading misinformation to get us interested but hey it worked didn’t it
Lost interest in the Old World as soon as they mentioned that some original key factions wont be getting new rules or models.
And i was actually pretty hyped for its return when it was announced years back.
Honestly, I'm torn about getting a Scorpion, some Carrion and Ushabti.... depends on the price for the former 2 but the Ushabti are damn expensive... though I want one of each unit cuz the models are so cool... =_=; Oh and I'll deffo need a Necrotect.
I’m considering taking out a mortgage to buy some ushabti
@@AM-uw3gp Yeah they are that painful to buy tbh.. they do look amazing though. Dunno if I'd field them which is part of what holds me back. They don't fit into the general theme I made for my guys. (Roman Legionaries so bricks and bricks of infantry backed by chariots)
@@tirandeshibaraki743 they will look awesome in the display case though and yeah nice blocks of infantry look so good lined up on the battlefield too
i think they will reboot in less then 3 years. necromunda did it a bit over a year with three months between releases so i think we will see it in a year and a half to two years depending if they are going to give us two factions a quarter like say we get dwarfs along side orcs in march
GW really don't get that people primarily want the army they're interested in.
You know what, I prefer the old sculpts
Good. GW should focus on the basic factions first before they start adding new ones.
I am definitely going to collect Cathay. I am a patient man, I can wait. I love all races, but my wallet doesn't.
Idk this game took how many years to come out? For seeable future is a long time.
I thought we already knew that????
I swear it's like GW doesn't even want to make money or something
Do they even know how much the Chinese Warhammer community want Catchay? (They should because many years ago the leader of that community literally paid them a visit to express how much money they can make if they do this correctly)
How tf does GW expect us to get invested in a game with two available factions. Any one of us here could market this game better than GW
FOR KISLEV!
FOR URSUN!
FOR KISLEV!
To be honest I feel like GW is constantly trying to scam people and we have to avoid constantly dirty tricks. Pretty sure when they have sold enough old stuff for old world an announcement will pop out :"hey we have not planned for kislev and chatay but we see lot of you were upset and we decide to listen at you, so they will be released next month with a full brand new sculpted miniature range, just in time for us next price rising"
GW have no intentions on fully supporting the old world.
It’s a quick nostalgia cash grab.
Checking back in on Old World when I see kislev models.. been boycotting GW tabletop for years, few more won't hurt.
GW confirms: we like to displease our fan base.
I hate to sound like an asshole to the fans of fantasy I enjoy it but AoS lore and setting and models completely blow old world out of the water. It's clear GW are re-thinking trying to make the old world a thing. I have a feeling it will die a second death pretty fast lol. Who would have thought too much of a focus on chaos killed warhammer fantasy twice LOL. Now let's see if Warhammer 3 can survive long enough to get Nippon not seeming likely if the game doesn't make it chaos in a way will have killed warhammer fantasy 3 separate times roflmao.
Where’s my TREBUCHET!!! Seriously though why no Trebuchets 😢
Wave 3 will have them and everything else missing from TK and Bret’s
No Cathay & Kislev shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. GW is already struggling to supply 40k and AoS - the titles they actually care about - so why would they strain their lines even more for the sake of a third title they clearly don't have faith in. I've said it before, I'll say it again - I feel like my paranoia regarding TOW being a second, intentional and final, grave for Fantasy is becoming more and more vindicated.
As an AoS player with no nostalgia for old world I know nobody who wants to play old world.
Too bad, GW doesn't want my money. It's time to go back to KoW and create an army in the style of Cathay. Kislev and Cathay were very popular in Warhamer Total War III and GW is selling old models for Tomb Kings of Khemri. I am disappointed with this information.
My FLG hasn't gotten shit
I wasn't terribly impressed by TWW's depictions of Cathay and Kislev so it is probably for the best if they leave those in the oven for a while longer. Both factions seemed kind of out of place and jarring compared to the tradtional factons and in terms of aesthetics it seems like they would be a better fit for Age of Sigmar rather than oldhammer.
If there are people getting their hype killed by 2 factions being pushed some time back that is fine, the old world will be better without them.
"For the foreseeable future" is just weasel talk. Most of the models are already sculpted. They'll release it when they have production capacity I guess.
How do you know? What models are there besides very old Kislevites?
No calling you wrong, just a genuine question.
@@feuerklinge9004 He means that GW's likely finished to create the models and could show them if they wanted to, but the factories have not create any of the molds (required for production). Basically, the two faction exist, but aren't not "releasable" due to production difficulties.
@@feuerklinge9004 not sure I can say anything that would convince you how I know - everyone claims to have an uncle who works at GW, after all! - suffice to say that new models have been designed for Kislev and Cathay. Which shouldn't be a surprising claim; they've openly talked about working closely with CA in designing the new factions.
The game is completely dead on arrival and in fact it's quite something seeing GW kill this game in such an over-the-top manner.
After laughing at players argue over the "nuances" of this poorly written draft ruleset printed in hardback watching pathetic UA-camrs desperate for freebies from GW; with a grand total of one academic who happens to play Warhammer being critical of the bizarre design choices of this dead game (linehammer etc). I have to say I was taken aback by people caring about Kislev and Cathay given how BAD those factions look in Total War and how BAD the earlier art previews were. Nothing grim dark about them.
The game is dead: GW can't shift the highly-in-demand Pegasus Knights because they priced them at £37.50, even with a 20% discount FLGSs can't shift them. So what do GW do? Price 3 Tomb King Chariots at £47.50 lmao. They're charging 36 old 1997 TK skeletons at £47.50.
What killed Fantasy? Stupidly complex rules; insanely highly prices; and lack of support.
Given it's still impossible - 2 months in - to fully play Brets as the most basic stuff one might need: Dukes and Barons on foot/mounted are permanently unavailable outside limited made-to-order (which has passed!) I'd say it's safe to say lack of support is present giving us the tripple fatal errors that killed WFB all lined up.
Dead on arrival. Made to fail. Killed before it had a chance. And don't give one BS about it's "selling out" given how very few boxes are in circulation anyway.
Enjoy your 2003 Bret men-at-arms with misaligned hands lol.
I bought all the books to support this game but let's not pretend this is going to end well. And toxic posivity, pretending this is all cool is going to KILL THIS GAME HARDER.
GW when they see easily earned money:
🏃♂️ 💴
Bro just give us Empire
Araby confirmed
Since ToW has been so naff I've not bought anything from GW in months. Don't see me really buying anything any time soon. Totally rubbish of GW
Gw is a joke. At this point i am sure they have 1 man making every model by hand with a chefs knife. How can they never have any product of any kind? They shouldn't even be moving forward with old world until they have an aircraft hanger full of ready to ship boxes of every single faction, including kislev and cathay. No wonder they hate 3d printers, made their entire manufacturing processes defunct and archaic overnight. Not that it wasn't already. They should just sell model files and people can "manufacture"their own quantities at will.
GW must be kicking themselves... they killed off warhammer right as total war started taking off. Now they bring it back as total war is dying out. Could you imagine how much money they could have made if they timed model releases with army and unit releases in the game!? But no... they uh..dont know how to do business lol
The Old World is already dead to me.
For a while...
Honestly if GW won't, I'm sure fans will make it themselves
“Stop b¡+ching” is never a great argument my dude. GW is constantly disappointing us and we have the right to b¡+ch about it
Good Cathay sucks anyway. 😂 cya
Really hate the cadence of your speech.