Our First Lionel VisionLine Locomotive!
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- Опубліковано 20 гру 2023
- Our experience with our first Lionel VisionLine locomotive, which also happens to be our first full scale Big Boy! Be sure to check out The Train Loft and tell Jeff, The Trainboard sent you → www.trainloft.com/
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We brought the engine to our nearest authorized Lionel dealer, The TrainDoctor, a 40 minute ride here in NJ. The engine lifted and derailed on his layout, similar to on our trainboard. They suggested a mechanical problem- missing parts or misassembly. Their track is 072. We will talk to Lionel and seek warranty repair with an RMA. We took the ride to The TrainDoctor to satisfy ourselves that the problem was not entirely our track. Incidentally, we ran the engine on our trainboard in the other direction and it ran fine on that previously problematic curve but now it lifted off on the other curves. Jeff, manager at the Train loft, has been very willing to help us as best he could. So far, my gut feel is misassembly or a loose or missing part, especially given the way the steam pipes hit and scrape each other, clearance seemingly a problem. Also, I continue to believe this engine needs very level track, very natural curves and prefers Lionel fasttrack, not our 072 atlas O track. I have seen videos of these lionel big boys running fine on atlas 0 072, even on a fast track s curve. We have many other big engines and not one has a problem on our trainboard. Gary
Merry Christmas
Sean had problems with one of his engines and he uses FasTrack
I'm guessing the problem is with the engine 😟😥.I hope the issue gets resolved.and train doctor could not help
@williamkolina3988 made sense to return the engine to lionel as a waranty repair. If traindoctor , an authorized lionel dealer, works on the engine, it breaks warranty and is at our expense. We had hoped any lionel authorized dealer could do repair under warranty. So far, not true. We shall see. Gary
@@TheTrainboard Lionel put an end to authorized repair centers a few years ago
I wish you the best
Dang that paint scheme is awesome!....Jeff did a good job.
That paint scheme is our absolute favorite. It a fantasy scheme but really has impact. The engine is in for warranty repair... looks initially like missing or incorrectly assembled parts on the main steam pipes which cause derailments. we shall see how it works out. Thanks for commenting. Gary
Amazing big boy 4025
We really liked those fantasy colors...but that price does hit hard. But, for us, we love it and are so fortunate. Thanks for commenting
I was impressed Lionel recorded the engine specific 4025 cab in the announcements, and
photo of this custom Big Boy on the box. The sounds are amazing!
Thanks for the shout-out. I am re-making those Premier Gundersons and a new Premier 70 ton hopper set in the matching DRGW Heritage scheme for 2024. The Premier 18" matching passenger cars are due out 1st quarter 2024. I'll never top this custom Big Boy, but the Katy Heritage Challenger, Appalachian Shay, and of course, the Vision Line Triplex is next!
Jeff, you certainly put much effort and thought into your special runs. Your suggestions and help to resolve our difficulties is very much appreciated. It even harder since you are in north carolina and we in nj. We fully expect this will work out.
I’m with ya, I’d go for the big boy too. Great choice. Detail is awesome
Thanks! Hopefully, he'll be back on the rails soon. - Ryan
Love that paint scheme, very nice pick up! Hopefully you find a good solution for the derailing issue. The chipping paint makes it seem like something is binding or rubbing in that articulation area.
This design hasn't changed since the JLC Big Boy so check your assembly. Three points I would check:
1. Turn the engine upside down and check the front pilot to see if it is moving freely. It has an flat metal arm connected to a spring that rotates on the front and a washer it slides on in the back. Make sure it's moving at both ends side to side.
2. Turn it upright. In between the front cylinders, connected to each cylinder is a small pipe piece that rotates around the curves. It attaches to a longer pipe piece that connects over the front drive wheel. Place it on a table without track and rotate the front to check these are both moving forward and backward as you rotate the front.
3. In between the front cylinders and the drive wheel there is a spring that connects a pipe piece to the chassis. Rotate the front back and forth on the table without track again and see if the spring is getting stuck on the fake leaf springs.
We took the engine to The Train Doctor and ran it on their track. Both Rem and Adam believe the engine was not assembled properly, and or, has a missing part. Adam specifically said that the middle steam pipe is free floating, but shouldn't be. It should move in unison with the other two outer steam pipes. This is causing them to rub together, in turn, making the front drivers bind up when going through certain curves. - Ryan
@@TheTrainboard I think you're referring to the piece attached to the spring. You can try removing the spring and seeing how it runs. JLCs don't have them
I didn’t know that it has problems with 072 Atlas curves. I haven’t ran mine yet. I’m building my layout which has a minimum curve of 072. For those who has space of 9x18” consider the Atlas Great Eastern Line layout. Its curves are 072, 081, and 090..
It should not have problems with 072 curves. We will be getting to the bottom of this.
Love my #4014 & only issue I've had is one of the pop off steam ports clogs every now and then..
Yeah, that occasionally happens with ours, too.
It’s a beautiful engine.
Our favorite but its the only engine in our collection giving us these difficulties. We do think it will work out.
@@TheTrainboard the behavior of the engine appears to indicate that something is hanging up when the truck tries to turn. Assuming the curve is level I don’t think it’s your curve. It could very well be something is getting hung up in the track leading to the curve and this prevents turning in the curve. The way it slams back down into place indicates a hang up. I would check track ahead of the curve for un level areas. I would also check to see if anything is getting caught under the truck. Knowing Lionel you might have a loose screw or part somewhere jamming up the rotation of the truck. Oftentimes the more expensive the engine the more opportunity for detail parts to get loose and jam things up. I think high end engines are mostly QCed for looks and not for quality of assembly. I’ve had engines where the factory forgot to install screws. Lol.
Guys, we would really appreciate your comments on the derailing and paint flaking issue. The swinging boiler hits the underneath supporting rods, but not every time. There is a spring for tension, but. The 072 atlas curve is screwed down and level. The lionel wheels may have a flange height optimized fot lionel fast track. That flange might be hitting that atlas clip which is where it usually derails.None of our many larger engines have any problems on that curve. We did replace the track. And yes, it happens only on that one curve, not our other 3 curves. The curve may be off from natural 2/16. We do not know other train guys near by where we might do a comparison run. Please offer your opinion.
Is the track to sharp?
You shouldn't be having derailment issues on O72.. We've got the new vision big boy as well and are using fastrack. Initially, we had a near derailment to derailment issue on one curve of our layout as well; all O72, exactly as yours was doing in your original derailment clip. The curve itself was level. We discovered that the issue was the last 15 inches or so of straight track leading up to the first curve had a very minor dip where two sections of straights met. The engine is so long and there is so much 'give' or 'flex' so to speak given the multiple, independent wheel sets that a flaw or inconsistency beneath the rear of the engine absolutely affects the front half of the engine and vice versa. That being said, our observation of the VL big boy is that it's like the legacy Acela (which we also own): O72 is an almost laughable minimum and is an absolute. It can do it, but that 72 has to be flawless. It also seemed to us that the engine had to be run in a bit (also like the Acela...) before it loosened up some. So.. we leveled out the very minor dip in our track and the issue resolved. I'm not confident the track clips are an issue, or Eric would have likely made comment of this. I know you've used bubble levels, but I'd make sure the table is not flexing underneath the track as well. The cardboard shims may also be giving way underneath the weight of the locomotive. Furthermore, the clips with the locomotive sound off sounded like everything may need some lubrication. Lionel isn't known for well oiled bits out of the box. The paint shaving off from articulation points is a bit of a curious thing. As is well known with the Acela, it'll show you wherever your trackwork isn't 100%😂 the moral of this long winded story is make sure the straights for at least the length of the locomotive before and after any curves is dead straight and dead level and that the track *cannot* flex under the weight of the unit whatsoever. I genuinely hope this helps y'all, don't give up yet!
Also... "oh no!" Is right. Nothing gets the heart tripping like a near as makes no difference $3,000.00 model train coming off the rails and making sparky sparks 😱 last little tidbit...watch the o rings for the smoke fills... they absolutely love to weasel off, especially once they've gotten a taste of smoke fluid 😅
It’s amazing to me, that after paying close to 3k there’s a QC problem. Also the hoops one must go through to get it corrected. Lionel must grow a set of balls n step up n correct these reoccurring problems.
Happy holidays. Hopefully, we can find a solution and run one of favorite engines without problems. Quality control and customer service should be key in any well run business, Lionel no exception. My computer stuff does far more for far less dollars and quality problems are much rarer, most repairs or replacement parts easily done by ourselves.
I actually had the same issue with my MTH Army Challenger. It was derailing on my 081 curve. I found that there was a tiny piece sticking out that would catch on the front when it articulated. I nipped it off with some clippers. Not the ideal fix but havnt had an issue since. Also wouldn’t be able to see the “fix” unless you knew it was there.
Thanks so much, Zach. We will check it out. Sometimes, hopefully not so often, it's a lesson in frustration to get these units to run. Gary
I had a similar problem with my new Vision Line Big Boy. I'm using tubular 072 track. I had to check my radius and widen the curve a little. Now it runs perfectly in forward and reverse. Other steam engines ran fine on that loop, but the Big Boy lifted and derailed. It is very non forgiving of slight imperfections in the way the track is laid. Also, my cross-track level needed to be adjusted. I had 2 issues. One other note...... I had to remove The Woodland Scenics foam roadbed I was using. It allowed for a little flex under the weight of that engine that also caused derailing. Good luck guys.
We actually thought about using the Woodland Scenics roadbed, but it would have lifted the track too high, and the locomotive would hit the stairs. Thanks! - Ryan
You guys are the BEST👍🏼
Thanks for your support, JC
That's one Beautiful & Huge Big Boy, love the heritage paint scheme 💛🖤💛🖤 Congratulations.WOW😊
Yes, Chazz, we also love that paint. Thanks for your continued support
Congratulations on the purchase guys.
Thanks, we saved up a long, long time and are fortunate.
What an impressive locomotive! Good for you guys!
We are fortunate. The colors pop and show the detail well vs very, very expensive and that derailing issues.
Just a thought....Check to see if the front pilot is binding on any part of the chassis.
I adore this hue; it's a gorgeous train.
Those colors do pop. Have a good holiday
Nice combo all around, one caveat, the lack of period correct cars. Overall 👍👍💯🇺🇸
So far, we've not found any period correct cars in that paint scheme. So we collected these hard to find cars. Thanks for your support. Gary
That’s one impressive piece to add to your collection!! My VL BigBoy was missing the bell luckily I found it in the front trucks. But definitely impressive with the details!! These will go up in value in years to come !!
Yes, Scott, but we do hope to solve our puzzle with it and run often and easily.
Extraordinary looking locomotive Extraordinary sounds and smoking effects 👍🏻✨️✨️✨️✨️✨️
Yes, sound and features are special, eric. Just wish lionel pricing on it was more reasonable.
Gents, Sean from Sean's Train Depot had a problem kind of similar to your Big Boy but with a Strasburg #89 except his engine was derailing on some switches. It turned out there was a sticking axle bushing on one of the drivers causing the problem, the axle couldn't "float" up and down as it was supposed to. Sean diassembled the engine and filed the bushing so it moved freely and that solved the problem.
Since your Big Boy seems to be improving with use it could be a similar issue with an axle bushing that's abating as the engine breaks in. I'd flip the Big Boy over and inspect your driver axles for free movement and if there's floating bushings give them an oiling. I'm not sure I'd want to take the thing apart!
Those paint flakes could be a clue as well, check the underside and try and find where the paint's chipping off, there could be a free movement issue there as well.
I can't help but be reminded of something Scotty said in one of the "Star Trek" movies:
"The more you complicate the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the drain!" That Big Boy's loaded with amazing features and details but sometimes like a symphony orchestra if all the pieces don't play right it'll mess up the total effect.
And of course there could be SOMETHING going on with that curve. If it's possible to increase the curve radius in any way I'd give that a try.
Anyway, that's one beautiful piece of gear! And it looks fantastic with those Rio Grande cars!
And hey, if we don't speak again before then have a VERY Merry Christmas! It's always a pleasure to "visit" with you when you post!
Thanks, Wayne for your very detailed thoughts. And have a very special holiday wish to you and yours from us at the trainboard. And we are working on a happy Christmas video run session to share the fun and happy thoughts with the train community. Thanks for your support
That new big boy is a real beauty happy holidays 🚂🌲
Thanks! Same to you!!
Jeff at the Train Loft did a great job on this locomotives paint scheme! Congrats!
yes, Jeff, of the train loft, did a fantastic job in choosing this special run and taking the extra mile to make sure Lionel got the paint scheme the proper color to match othe drg cars. Jeff and Lisa are the best
What an awesome looking engine, sorry your having trouble hope you get it figured out. Happy holidays!!
It is extremely frustrating so far. We send our happy holiday wishes to you and your family.
I'm no expert, I don't own any Vision Line. My opinion is it's the train, not your track. To me those paint flakes are key, something is hanging up as the truck moves in or out of center. Did you find the spot where the flakes were coming from? Love the colors though, DRGW is one of my favorite lines.
We are hoping your guys have enough comments to reach a consenus on the derailing issue and the paint flake & derailing issues. We also suspect the flange height on the wheels are optimized for lionel fasttrack better than our 072 atlas o track...
I first saw this Rio Grande Big Boy on another video and thought it was just beautiful. Then I heard your comment about the paint scheme of the Rio Grande when you featured the diesel. So, picking up this one is perfect for you guys. I hope that things work out. Thankfully it did not completely derail and fall off the board.
yes, this is definitely our favorite paint scheme and we do hope to figure out the derailing. Thanks for commenting. Comments make us feel like we are even more connected running and talking trains
I’m jealous, that’s one awesome machine (paint scheme)! I have the First Run Edition “Legacy”, would like a Visionline Big Boy in the near future for the collection.
Before this is over, I expect we will have a good feel for all our difficulties. Then, we will offer our opinion to you.
On the big front deck where the headlight sits are vertical handrail stanchions. These stanchions go through the pilot deck and are folded over underneath to hold them in place. I had one that was not folded flat against the underside of the deck, and it would snag on the articulating steam pipes. I could feel the front engine binding up just by swinging the front engine back and forth with the engine on the workbench. I used pliers to bend the wire flat with the deck and boom, no more snagging. Hope that helps!
We'll look into this. Thanks for the advice!
Drop your floor plate on the cab and it should stop the problem. My class A was doing the same
We'll give that a try!
One other note. I guarantee if we were running O90 curves there would be no problem at all, but who has the room for that?
Yeah, I wish. The next layout we would definitely do 081 minimum, maybe 090 if we could fit it. - Ryan
Ryan and Gary this is a beautiful engine. I remember talking to you about that curve at Greenberg. Awesome video guys. I hope you can resolve the problem.
Edit: BTW I got sick after Greenberg too. I caught covid 😷😷
Thanks Corey! We hope so too!! I caught covid after Greenberg, Dad managed to dodge it. - Ryan
Greta looking engine and great video. Now you need the matching Rio Grande passenger cars 😊
Jeff at the train loft, who did this special run, has a matching water tender and passenger sets for preorder. Thanks for your support, Zach.
Fingers crossed the cars and tender come soon, it’s been a long wait. I also have the Katy passenger cars coming from The Train Loft. Plus countless Rio Grande cars :)
WHERE DID YOU GET THE MATCHING ROLLING STOCK? IT LOOKS FANTASTIC. 🙂
Agreed, fiund on facebook market place and ogr forum. Thanks for commenting. Gary
Merry Christmas Ryan and Gary
Impressive model
I hope you resolve issues with the engine
That is a rarity.
And honestly I am not a big fan of fantasy schemes,but that model is awesome
yes, we agree with you on all those points.
Welcome to the #4025 Bigboy club. It’s my best looking Lionel and MTH engine. The only flaw is that it’s not officially numbered on the bottom. Other than that,”THE BEST”.
Kevin, we do love the colors and features. Thanks for the support.
Ii need to go to the Train doctor and ask them if they can test mine out. That’s the problem when you purchase a $3000.00 engine and not have your layout set up.
@@kevinjohnson7468 Hope yours doesn't have any problems!
@@TheTrainboard I hope so also. I’m in the process of building my first O gauge layout and have a lot of trains.
What a yellow Big Boy no Big Boy was ever painted yellow
Yes, it is a fantasy gold and black color. I usually prefer prototypical but there a a very few fantasy colors I like. Gary
You should have two slots on the teader that hooks the tender to the locomotive. Place the hook on the first slot or leave the floor plate between the locomotive and tender dropped... It should be fine after that. My lionel class A did the same thing...
Thanks, but we cant shorten that tender space like on many other engines.
You need to lengthen the space. The drop plate is hit the sides of the inner part of the tender causing it to lift.
Amazing Lionel vision line big boy 4025 I understand 0-72
yes, atlas 072 curves. Those features are impressive but at a big budget hit. We are fortunate . Jeff at the train loft did a good job with this special run.
Can you guys Try 0-90
@@user-mz6cu6qe9d the room, with stairs, water heater, furnace and cinder block pillqr will not let us do larger than 072 curves
At 29:10 the front left hand side of the driver set appears to be pushing hard to the left enough so that it's lifting the front drivers and in some instances the front left hand side of the front trucks. Notice at 29:16 (after re-railment) the 4th driver (on the front driver set) is pushed all the way to the left possibly indicating that something is impeding the articulation range of motion. Possible causes .. something is causing binding or stiffness related to an over or under tightened screw or where a moving part is binding, a part could be out of spec or bent, missing or incorrectly installed. Also, something may have come loose or a small screw or washer is floating around or it could additionally be related to gearing issues and how the motor is (via gearing and drive shaft) powering the front drive set.
Have you tried running it in the opposite direction to see if you still have the same issue?
With all of these variables I would (or through your dealer if applicable) contact Lionel (plus send them this video) for repair or if available, ask your dealer for a replacement to see if the issue is still present.
It's a great looking model, I'd try to get it fixed (if possible) and hold onto it.
Best of luck !
We contine to suspect missing or loose parts or misassembly...Decided a RMA is indicated
Hey guys - awesome locomotive! I have three Visionline BigBoys and run them with no problems on 96 down to 72 Gargraves track with Ross switches. The one thing I noticed at 32:22, is the tender appears to rock. This may be an indicator off what's causing the driver derailment. The articulates can be finicky. It looks to be where the small section of track is installed with the cardboard under it. Is there any way to make this section one complete curve with maybe even use a piece of flex track carefully bent to 72 or slightly larger or like you had mentioned, tube track in this section? Also, I had an area where my plywood sections joined that would cause one of my Y3's some issues going over it. I pulled the track, used a belt sander to really smooth out the joint about 12 inches in both directions and reinstalled the track. The problem went away. Just wanted to try and share some ideas to consider! :) I think the unfortunate reality is that the Visionline series is not perfect. I have quite a few VL's and have to say that I think all but my Niagra, have come with slight issues, which you would not expect for the price. I still love them though and I'm not trying to talk down VL's. The VL series really produces some beautifully detailed models with incredible sounds and functions! Please don't give up on your BB! That is a gorgeous locomotive and with some elbow grease, I think you guys will get it running on that curve! -Brian
Thanks for your input Brian! We took the locomotive to The Train Doctor and it exhibited similar behavior. Making us think that it is not the track alone. As of now we are planning to RMA it with Lionel after the holidays. We'll keep you updated! - Ryan
Sounds good guys! Good call going to The Train Dr! I hope everything works out well for you! That is a beautiful locomotive! 😊 -Brian
Check your track bet it not level and most those engine need 84 inch curves or bigger. O 72 is not recommened
Yes, a continuing task to check track, some of it hard to reach. I wish we could have used bigger than 072, but the room does not allow bigger, unless we cut way back on parking tracks and long runs
Have you checked the wheel guage?
I do think lionel makes their wheel flanges with lionel fast track in mind, no clips like atlas o. I will measure the wheel depth, just to see .
@@TheTrainboard not the depth but the width of the wheel. If the width of a wheel is more than it needs to be, it will cause the wheels in front of it to derail on a curve
could the curve smaller then 0-72 ? I"m no Eexpert ? or is the layout level ?
We've double-checked that the curves are definitely O-72, and the track is perfectly level in both directions.
My birthday is today
Happy b day...hope all goes well. Thanks for your support
Don't be disappointed
Maybe swap track puece out.
The forum might help
Paint flaking shows metal on metal
I hope you find a solution
It is too beautiful to be disappointed in
Yes, William. Metal on metal is indicated, many replies on the OGR Forum but still working on the problem.
This might be a weird question, but has Ryan ever streamed on twitch before?
Yes, I have. Hello TM :) - Ryan
@TheTrainboard Knew it. I never mentioned it cause I never thought it was relevant, but I’ve been a Ho scale modeler/railfan for most of my life. I like looking at all scales though, so I'll stick around.
@@tm_14_44 That's so cool to hear! What a small world! Glad to have ya aboard!! - Ryan
I’m glad you guys like this paint scheme but to me that is the ugliest big boy ever. LOL. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Absolutely, thanks for commenting
May as well take $2k throw it in the trash. It’s less painful
Well, very, very frustrating. Pipes under the boiler still rub against themselves. We suspect missing parts and/ or faulty assembly. Wish us luck. We do not have many lionel engines, do have very many mth, never had anything close to this. We expect Lionel will fix it. Gary
I’m so sorry to hear that but not at all surprised, all my engines MTH. A friend bought one of those steam engines and it was a nightmare for him , it has gone back multiple times and still doesn’t work as it should. I’ve had my own negative experience with Lionel and gave up with them. And at the club, many other disappointed members. It’s a sad truth specially for the money we spend theses days. Wish you all the best. I really hope it works out for you.
I’m just a novice but, I notice that in the curve when the boiler begins to move out of alignment with the front trucks, there is a jerk, see yank, upward of the boiler. Regardless of what other kind of problem you are having (even if the tail light is falling off), joke! That incident should NOT occur! That is when the front drive wheels began to lift off of the track! See your slow motion video! I don’t know what the connection is between the boiler and front truck on this constructed unit but, I would bet you dollars to donuts that coupling between them is the source of your problems! My life’s experiences are, Aviation electronics military trained twenty years, licensed Ford mechanic, Recreational Vehicle adult education teacher, Computer consultant for a division of the State of California, small arm’s technician and I could go on but, it’s beginning to sound like BS. Oh, and I played lead guitar in my own band for about twenty years but I don’t see the relevance.😮💨 If I’m right, send me Kudos. If I’m wrong, oh, do please keep it quiet! 😅 🤣
We felt the pipes between the boiler, frame and front trucks were not assembled correctly or are missing parts. We have sent the engine to lionel for warranty repair and will advise. We think your educated quess is highlighting the real problems. Thanks so very much for commenting
Congratulations on your purchase. Sorry for your problems but it's all part of owning modern Lionel trains. To many bells and whistles to go wrong. I prefer prewar and postwar Lionel when they were built in America and not China town. Poor quality control and lots of problems are all part owning new Lionel and it doesn't matter if it's starter sets or Vision Line. I hope you get things worked out.
Thanks Dwayne! At this point we are planning to RMA the Big Boy with Lionel. We'll do an update video after the RMA process is complete. We have a couple more Lionel locomotives to open, so let's hope they are without issues. - Ryan
👎👎👎👎👎👎👎
Well. this fantasy color scheme is not for everyone. Thanks for watching
Is that 🤔 an AUTHENTIC COLOR or one of those "FANTASY PAINT SCHEMES?""
It is a fantasy paint scheme. Although I prefer protypical modeling, this is, by far, our favorite paint scheme. It shouts out for us, especially with the matching car and it shows the detail way better than many of our black engines. But, I certainly do like both black and some grey engines. I have grown to like many fantasy engines but not so much fantasy colored freight cars. Thanks for commenting. Gary