Ep.23. My MAST is BROKEN! Is this the END??
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- Опубліковано 25 тра 2023
- No, it isn't.
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Just shorten it by a couple of inches I've done it a couple of times in the past . remember the load is downwards not sidewards .I would not worry about that at all.
I was just about to suggest that 👍
Was just about to say same just shorten it by six inches
Could it not be knocked off by 4 inches and placed on a block so the rigging stays the same. I have no idea if it is feasible?
That was my first idea as well
Or an extra layer alluminium on the outside and let somebody weld them together
Lots of boatyards have old masts for sale if you ask. For me I'd take it to Fleetwood as is, then try to find or manufacture a tabernacle. That way you can cut a little off the base but keep the height. The big bonus about fitting a tabernacle is you can drop your mast anytime you like, which makes rig inspection & stuff easy
now that's a very good idea Terry might be able to do it himself with some help from the subscribers I bet there are some local ones near to him who would help if he asked.
This seems an excellent idea/solution
We had one with highfield levers on the shrouds, but the rigger said he would not lower the mast because he was scared of it. The previous owner was catapulted into the air, then the water when dropping it.
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Hi bumbling sailor,
To get yourself to where your going, what youve suggest is the best fix - drilling the tip of the crack, say a 4mm bit will remove the stress concentration by producing a nice radius in the mast material. Putting some jubilee clips around the mast where the cast foot is located will help restrain the mast from expanding from the corrosion product between the masts cast foot and the extruded aluminum mast material. - trust me im a metallurgist !! When you get to where your going you can either cut the mast down a bit, clean it up and refit it or leave it the same lenght and get a mobile TIG welder to repair the crack. Happy sailing mate - Simon
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Weld a sleave around the cracks
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I emailed Seldon on your behalf :)
😂😂😂 My mate that works there said it landed in his inbox 😂😂 Cheers!
Instep the mast. This can be done by hand with the help of a few people. In simple terms run a rope ( halyard) from the bow to replace the forestay. Slacken off the side stays and tip the mast backwards restrained by someone holding the forestay rope through the bow roller. ( I’m assuming the mast can rotate on the foot in some way). Once down shorten the mast. Rebuild the deck with a block of timber fibreglassed in to the thickness of the removed mast and then refit in the opposite manner to how you dropped it. Simples!
Needs a tabernacle to do this, he has to lift it first to get it off the step, unfortunately.
@@ItreboR63I agreed, I thought the mast here had to be lifted up but wasn’t sure. I could do this on my previous two boats but not the one I own now.
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Hi Terry Sooner or later the mast has to come down whatever you do and the cheapest way is as you have already been advised is cut off and remove the damaged area of the mast base and get a cup made to make up the difference in height and re-step the mast Job Done! As As surveyor I visit many marinas/boatyards and my first plan would be spend some time on the phone and ask locally as there are dozens of masts and booms around boatyards and a few phone calls may well prove worth while. Short term yes strap it up horizontal as it probably been there longer than you think BUT agree pick your weather windows carefully
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Are you sure the bottom of the mast is the only portion affected? If there is corrosion further up you'll have to scrap the repair option. So a thorough check of the whole mast is the first thing I would do.
Hi mr B
I’ve just
been watching some of your videos. As far as I can see from the interior of your boat it looks like a Contesa 32 Designed by David Sadla. I’ve been thinking about a simple fix for your mast. Make a cardboard Temblett to have a SS strap fabricated to clamp 4 to 5”around the mast.
I’ve taken the inner passage a few times by keeping close to the bill, normally if you have wind with tide, keeping close to the bill the race is fast but flat.
You may be a bumbling sailor mate, but your engineering brain never ceases to amaze me! Carry on son please... I really enjoy watching how you approach problems and get them sorted.
Drill the hole as you said then get a piece of aluminum sheet 50mm wide or so then shape to the mast curve and pop rivet it in place maybe with some 5200 between the patch and the mast. I saw a friend to this on his 30' boat a couple of years ago and he has had no issues. He races the boat hard.
A junk rig is an incredibly comfortable and safe way to sail in the trade winds. Perhaps we’ll be ready to cross the Atlantic at the same time!!?? 😂
I've no suggestions but as a fellow newbie I admire your courage and just do it attitude. Hopefully this will help a little.
Thank you!
Strengthening your fordeck for the junk rig wil be a costly build . Also making a foot for the mast. I would forget junk rig , strengthen the mast foot with a strong strap and get sailing. That’s what you are there for!
If you use a stainless clamp don’t forget to isolate it from the aluminium mast. When we did ours we cut a strip of plastic packaging.
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Hi bud, like you said drill it, then just get some 6 inch wide carbon fibre tape, give it 5 or 6 wraps around the mast, it’ll be stronger than new and you can do it in place in less than a day. So easy, quick, cheap and will last longer than rigging.
Carbon is no good here. It has zero sheer strength.
Un step the mast cut off the effected part restep and shorten the stays or poke around marinas for a used mast that will work.
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I’m sure with all the good advice you will figure something out!
You've got light winds and high pressure for at least a week. I'd get on with moving. It will be a lot easier than battling the prevailing south westerlies.
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That might be salvageable with ac/dc tig, at least worth giving it a try.
Welding will cause the crack to open. I would cut off a couple inches then like some said weld a collar at the base. I am a welder fabricator.
Also watched someone try to weld a similar crack on a mast, the welder was having no luck due to the thickness of the material and the impurities that affected the welding process, he said it would just make the problem worse. Aluminium can be a right bugger.
Cheers!
The junk rig is probably a junk idea. Shorten the mast by a few inches provided there is good metal there. You will have to probably shorten the stays to suit and put up with a few whacks on the head until you get used to it
Just sleeve the bottom about 12' - either an outer or an inner sleeve (sleeve riveted to main mast)
Go for it just drill a small hole at the point of the crack to stop it spreading then at gleetwood unstep and chop a bit off
If you prepare a wooden block to place under the foot to retain the height and avoid messing with the standing rigging, then you might even be able to just lift the mast a few inches, cut and lower it back down. I’ve seen masts get stepped/unstopped by fendering up between two other sail boats and using a halyard from each to lift/lower the mast on the middle boat. If you can do it without removing the mast completely, maybe you could get creative with some bottle jacks or acroprops just to lift it enough to cut, would need to secure the bottom with some lines to keep it from kicking out, sketchy but ghetto option.
Nice!
As one old sailor once said?? Wot cracks? I see no cracks!
Shorten the mast mate 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
I would do as others have suggested, drill the crack, support the base as well as you can, then look for a second hand mast or shorten your current one. Either a better solution than a junk rig.
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I am not sure if i would panic too much about that. There’s corrosion bursting the mast extrusion for sure. Ideally you need to unstep it and dismantle it to clear the corrosion and probably shorten it by a few centimetres to eliminate the crack. In the meantime I would simply strap it with stainless jubilee clips or even heavy duty tie wraps. The bursting force is not yet compromising the ability to bear the compression load. How about a hinged mast step fabrication? I do possibly have a spare mast that may be long enough with sails and a furling head going free. I shall get the length measurements for you ASAP.
I agree, drill the crack to stop it propagating then get a friendly welder to put a patch over the top.
If you enjoy sailing to windward, FORGET the junk rig. I know they have there aficionado’s & simplify sail control but they really don’t go to wind. Before you get too disheartened and give consideration to replacement, get a proper rigger to look at it - I’ve seen infinitely worse that have been very cheaply repaired. A diy permanent fix (which still involves unstepping) is aluminium brazing which would need the anodising removed in the repair area (as would TIG welding).
To get you back to Fleetwood, drill the top of the crack, smooth any rough edges, wrap it with a few thickish layers of dpm type material & clamp with 4 - 6 jubilee clamps. Almost as good as new. Then the hard bit. Avoid beer & eating for a few weeks & get the mast down!!
Definitely repairable & definitely relatively cheap (by marine standards!!). Mate had a similar sized boat, base of mast far, far worse than yours; bodge job with jubilee clamps lasted 7 years!
One last piece of advice. If you’re wanting to set sail for warmer climes, ie, carribean etc, that mast is coming down anyway before ANY extended cruising.
Best of luck & if you’ve any further questions don’t hesitate to ask.
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Drill it, weld it, and shape a two foot long wooden plug and insert it inside the mast to shore it up from the inside. Often a repair will be stronger than the original. Your thinking about investing more in to changing things, than it would take to just repair it.
If you can't remove the mast, maybe fabricate a two part collar to put around the outside and bolt it together at the ends?
I reinforced the ends of my swim ladder tubes by filling the ends with thickened epoxy, and redrilled the holes. Maybe you could inject about six inches of thickened epoxy in the the mast base?
I like the Fred Dibnah T shirt ! 👍
No need to over think it, patch it up to get you home then take the mast down etc. I think the idea to cut away the damaged part is fine but making a tall foot to make up the gap could be problematic, you would be introducing a hinge with that method. Just shorten it 👍
Cheers!
What stops you drilling hole (to stop spread), welding crack and then add a collar?
Changing mast position and structure will change the weight balance and whole performance of the boat, and the extra work will make it cost more
I like the junk rig though 😂
Although there are chaper options (like cuting 4 inches off the mast) a junk rig would make you stand out from other youtubes! Because lets be honest, everyone on youtube sails a Bermuda rig!
Good on you - pleased you're not giving up and that you seem to want to get it sorted. I'm hoping someone pops up and helps finance the repairs. If I win the lottery this weekend I'll buy you a new mast, boom and whatever else is needed to get you going, stand on me. I'm also impressed you're not doing the begging thing - you're a classy bloke and no mistake. Like the junk rig idea ... not knowing much about sailing I'm not sure whether it'd work or not, but if there's a way of keeping going then I say go for it, as long as it's safe.
All the best fellah. Hope things start looking up for you shortly coz it's a cracking channel. And it's not waffling if you're entertaining ... stay slinky fellah.
😂😂 Cheers!
Sorry to hear about the mast having a crack. There are many good suggestions below and I`m sure you`ll be able to get this sorted without having to lift the mast, at least until you can get it home. All the best whatever you decide to do.
Love the bumbling channel! We sail on the northern coast of the Gulf of Mexico and Lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana, USA..
Make sure that water that can get into the top of the mast can drain freely to mitigate further corrosion.. under the jubilee clamps, install a cuff of fiberglass and epoxy , maybe 8-10 inches tall .. then put the clamps back on. Good job drilling the crack end. Good Luck to ya!
To lower mast for free:
Both you and PamC or other big boat side on to a pontoon, but bow to bow. Facing each other.
Use her halyard and long line to lower your mast down.
Before you start lowering,
Wooden blocks strapped for and aft of mast foot ao it wont kick.
Big long wood across the push pit. As mast will hang over back of boat.
Sails and boom off before you start
And make sure the halyards ar in ok condition and the rope bwtween the 2 spini halyards is long enough. You dont want to run out of line before you have lowered it on the deck.
Your 9m mast wont be heavy. 2 people can easily lift it. You should be able to step it this way too.
Yes i have done it this way twice before.
For keel stepped mast i have done it side too a much bigger boat and used their mast to step it. That was a bit harder to line up. But also doable 😂
Junk rig would be a major refit. New running rigging, epoxy and fiberglass re-enforcement of the deck and bilge, sail fittings that you'd have to buy.
If it's just a crack at the bottom, how much would it cost to have a welder come out and weld an aluminium "callar" around the base. Kind of like a sleeve, but you don't have to de-mast it.
You need a different mast for a junk rig too.
Yeah, but I love the junk rig, I was thinking of doing it anyway 🤷
To get you to Fleetwood, drill a 3/4" hole at top of crack, buy a 18" / 24" aluminum pipe clamp the diameter of your mast for the bottom of the mast to above the crack and torque the hell out of it. I have a friend on rhe west coast of Scotland that did this 16 years ago and he's still sailing with the pipe clamp in place.
Oops! I see you already considered my previous suggestion. Great minds think alike:)
Possibly, change all the bolts etc in the mast for ally ones, get the crack welded by a good aluminium welder person and make sure your anode protection is good enough
Two options for economic recovery, 1 shorten mast by length of crack carry on. 2 get a local welder to weld repair crack carry on.
Saw a few inches off the bottom of your mast, put a solid mahogany spacer underneath it. You won’t have to change any rigging, you’ll be good to go.
Another one for shorten it . I have just done that exact same thing no probs . Mine was all split at base... Rigging still was ok length so perfect.
If you do the junk rig you still have to take the mast down anyway so just cut and put back up and get sailing.
I'm with you on drilling at the end of the crack to stop it. I would be looking at then welding it and putting a patch over it and riveting it. I reckon keeping a look out for a second hand mast would be a thing. Junk rigging is going to cost you. There is also the option of cutting a bit off the bottom, buying a small section and sleeving it. Loads of masts are sleeved. About getting the mast off and on. Some clubs have a crane and it is way cheaper than that to get the mast off. It probably only weighs about 110 kilos. Even our club has a crane at about $45 a go. However getting to Australia would take you a while.
Either chop a few inches off it or get in touch with boat scrapyard and see if they have a mast, no matter what option you choose the mast has to be removed even if you go junk rig
A chap i know in the marina had a crack like your's and drilled two holes in the mast, one at the base and one 5 inches above it and poured epoxy in to form a plug , Four years later, its still in place and has worked a treat.
Can you not stabilise the corrosion and tig weld some strengthening plates on of marine grade aluminium. In my home town of Alnwick, Northumberland for many years we had a company called Aln Marine who specialised in aluminium boats for the offshore industry, wind farms , salmon farms etc, some of there vessels were huge. Best wishes . I am sure it can be repaired without shortening or taking down the mast, just a qualified Tig welder.
The other alternative is to hire a cherry picker to lift the mast off. I have done that with a 47' wooden mast about 200kg, I took the yacht up a canal tied to the bank at high tide. I could get the cherry picker close to the bank. Your mast will be way lighter. The other more dodgy idea is to use a bridge. A couple of guys standing on the bridge could easily lift the mast off the yacht using ropes.
I think you should push on, dont push it in big winds, if your gentle you'll be able ro sail it home no bother ,its got you this far, no gale force winds though but its not the end, keep going lad!
Sailing Wave Rover is building a boat with junk rig, and he looks like a kind person. Try to ask him about junk conversion! Till that, you can wrap around the first 30-40 cm with stainless steel sheet and lock it with clamps. Drill a hole at the end of the crack is very good idea to stop the crack. Keep up, I have faith in you!
Thanks!
Could you possibly add a tabernacle type base to your mast!?
Would be cheaper than buying a new one.
It's basically a big hinge that bolts through the boat and through holes in your mast.
A good fabricator could probably build you one cheaper!?
My boats got one... allows me to drop and raise the mast to go under bridges. Not that I do lol.
Might be worth pricing it up and speaking to someone more knowledgeable than me before scrapping the mast itself
Maybe
My thoughts exactly, cut off the bottom few inches and treat/seal the where you cut and just adjust your rigging
Shorten it by 4 inches add a hardwood tabernacle to add height back brace the weak part of the part with giant jubilee clips insulated from stainless/alloy corrosion
.Sorry to hear about your troubles Terry, seems like a lot of people have made some good suggestions here.
Look at making up an A frame to bring the mast down with a few mates help. Cut the damaged part off and get a new step made up to get the vertical dimensions back to what it was for the rigging. Best wishes
Go for the junk rig. Excellent for short handed sailing and a low tech solution
Thinking about it 👍
Pop rivet an aluminium plate U shape 4 inches wide on the base. I assume there is a casting that the mast fits to on the deck. Releaving the crack tip works if you can restrain the propagating energy, keep those band clamps tight and in place.
We have a deck stepped mast too. There are no fasteners at the foot at all. The good thing about the idea putting in an inner reinforcement is that you won't have to adjust or change your standing rigging. Every single piece of standing rigging is really expensive. Try not to mess with it unless you're ready to replace it.
Hi Terry, first loving the bumbling 😊 nothing wrong with the Junk system. Never done it myself but even after all the extra strengthening it's not your cheapest or most appropriate solution. A 6 inch galvanic corrosive mast base can be cut off and if you don't want to lose too much a raised foot or sleeved extension would be cheaper than a complete new rigging solution.
Alternatively, fabricate a tight fitting collar out of thick aluminium and rivet it to the mast around the damaged bit.
Cheapest is to cut off and carry on. Bur rigging might be too short. So get/ make a temp or permanent step/tabernacle as others suggested suggestion suggestion. Junk on this boat would cost time and money and bert fees, and make the boat a disappointing performer.
You can jack the mast use lines on rigging ends if necessary. Scissor car jacks work.
Very best of luck.... dont jump into it too quickly.
Geoff New Zealand.
switching to junk rig will cost more than mast repair
Yeah, but I love the junk rig 🤷
Make a new step from an ofcut piece of hardwood to compensate for the piece you cut from the mast so you don't have to adjust the rigging. Its no big deal. It will last another ten years. Find a free replacement mast from a hurricane wreck in the tropics if you want to.
A collar clamp for temporary fix. Basically heavy gage aluminum wrapped around the base of the mast with 4 large worm gear clamps. It's not a perfect solution but it could give you the time you need to get to the next steps. I haven't read the other comments so others are likely to have better suggestions. In any case, keep at it. We'll be watching!
Looks like chop a bit off the bottom seems the best bet , it is only a few inch's so it looks like it will be ok and just make sure the fittings at the bottom can be refitted in an solid way.
Mikalor super clamps around the bottom to get you mobile then cut the bottom few inches off no problem, just need a creative way to do it. Don’t change the rig setup, keep as is. You can always raise it up on a block to keep boom height.
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Like you mentioned in the video drill a small hole at the end of the crack to stop it going further and ask someone with a tiv welder to weld it shut.
I'd be tempted to clean out the bolt holes one at a time and have them welded if they need it and re drill after through decent metal
But definitely treat the alloy with something to help protect it from further corrosion (powdering)
If all else fails get a couple of inches off the base and carry on 👍
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Shorten the current mast or look for a second hand mast. I think a junk rig will be a lot work and more expensive overall.
Dont use carbon fibre tape on aluminium as they are even further apart on the galvanic series. As people have said. drill a little hole above. Then look above at the size of the halyard cutouts, at the areas where there is sideways strain, to reassure yourself how minor this actually is. Walk around the marina looking at other same vintage masts if you are still anxious, or how narrow and light some of the racing boats masts are. It may be very difficult to remove because of the corrosion. Ask the local rigger there what their preferred practice is; welding, sleeving or ignoring. (60+yrs yacht ownership, 2 masts broken racing, none cruising.)
I’ve manually unstepped and stepped a mast. Just used a few people on the halyards and shrouds. I’ve also seen it done using a high harbour wall. I’ve also seen it done unintentionally on a ship before…..
Keep the same rig, repair what you got. I’ve seen shortened, plugged, welded, plated and tied repairs before. Good luck, don’t over think it.
Surely there are damaged masts somewhere. Get a piece of one, 2' maybe. Cut in half. Get devcon glue. We fixed engine blocks with it. Glue to outside and jubilee it until dry. Might even be able to find some stainless clamps to leave on there. Wide clamps. Can be done. Plenty options. 👍
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It looks like the comments are very positive, if I had your problem as you say there are some good people out there, and remember we are all beside you as you make yor way north 👍👍👍
All you need to do is internally sleeve and rivet the bottom meter of mast. You will need to remove the mast to do it.
Hi Terry, Nev says instant metal! Karen Smith here and we both wish you well 😊
Hiya! I've splodged some on! 😂😂😂
Just shorten the mast with 4 inches and have your stanchions shorted, if you can live with the boom hanging a bit lower. It's by far the cheapest option I think. Regarding completely redesigning the rig. It might turn on to be far more expensive than anticipated, and the question for you is if the boat is worth it.
I think you mean … no … I KNOW you mean SHROUDS😳😊
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My vote is to plate the mast. There folk who repair masts. The downside is that you will be creating a stress raiser where the extra material ends. Seek out those that do it, mast repair folk. Speaking personally, I would be happy to pitch in for you, rather than some millionaires yacht site.
1/ get the facts
2/ work out the options.
3/ choose the best option
4/ lets see what we can do.
Thanks
Lots of great suggestions. I would NOT sacrifice cabin space for a keel step. Your space is already limited. Also, your hatch is very important for fresh air in the cabin. They spend a lot of time open.
Sir first off i am no sailor, that being said iv worked in the marine industry for years. i would say that you're cheapest option would be to drill the whole to stop the crack, through some epoxy to help proof it ( temoprary ) and clamp the crack. then when you get where you are going trim the mast for the perm fix.
Dont worry about it. Just dril it for time being. Its not going to snapp. Shorten it is a good option. Or change it for a second hand.
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SV Tapatya is a good junk rig channel. The guy really knows his stuff.
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Jubilee clips and keep an eye on until you get home. Then saw a bit off the bottom. 🙂
Sorry to hear about your mast terry. It's a big hurdle but you can fix it,.
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A 10 minute conversation with an old rigger present on your boat would change your world right now.
I suggest buying a quality box of beer and a couple cuban cigars to entice him or her aboard and see what they say. At the very least you get to drink half the beer and blow some smoke rings.
It appears to be perfectly repairable.
Put a sleeve in it and pop rivet Or sleeve the outside simple😎loads of masts are done this way..
Like others in this thread, you should consider shortening the mast just above the crack and tightening the standing rigging. Probably the cheapest option. In the short term, drill stop the cracks temporarily.
Junk rigs take power via mast. but mainly via sheets at rear
oh crap, that is expensive Im unable to offer a solution but as you say drilling the top of the crack, and bracing a bit might help short term.
If it was my boat I'd get 4 or 5 big Jubilee clips round the bottom to get me home and start looking for a second hand replacement. My guess is that this would be no more expensive and a lot less hassle than a complete re-rig to a different setup. There's loads of dead boats out there of around that size so there should be options. Hopefully the sailing youtube grapevine might help you out with this option. Good luck...
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Changing your rig will probably end up being much more expensive than a mast repair I reckon.
Cant you just cut the part of mast off ??
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I think you can stabilise this mast whilst you source another second hand one. Yes drill the end of the crack- careful not to damage cables inside etc a bandit or substantial jubilee style clamp round the lower edge. You nearly showed a hole..? At the aft side , would need to see more. Is there a drainage hole at the bottom which is blocked? Changing to a junk is a far bigger prospect, but there is much knowledge and enthusiasm about this subculture , and I am sure you can find much help here if you choose to follow this way, but it seems a much bigger job than finding another section. I saw a suggestion to shorten the section which is also a solution, along with shortening all wires of course. Don’t despair you are not the first to encounter such problems, it’s all a journey and frankly makes the channel more interesting, much as you want to head off soon, you will get there👍
As has been suggested temporary fix then shorten the mast. Such cracks are usually caused by expansion corrosion in the mast base. Clamped it will be fine for a long time. Use t hose clamps not cheap threaded band style. Extra rivets also. Insulate with Duralac or similar. Have seen similar age wear and tear over 50 years and while a repair is needed l have never seen such damage lead to catastrophic failure.
If you know of a good welder, you can weld it.
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GTAW weld it, then reinforce it with an outer sleeve.
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I have had two. wish I still had one. So easy to handle.
wrap the base with hose clamps the ones you use on your car radiator hose
Either get a sleeve fitted or as already suggested cut of as much as solves the problem from the bottom of the mast and the compensate for the reduced size by dropping the boom accordingly.
Shorten the mast and make an alloy foot to make up the height difference fairly cheap and straightforward.
Unstepping and restepping the mast without a crane will require some braces, ropes and pulleys but is still completely doable by yourself with a little planning.
Bad news, but I agree with others , You could just thickness check the base (ultrasound) of your mast to get to the best thickness and remove the defective section.
Another suggestion is to give us all your existing mast spec/ boat etc and we can all look for the a scrap boat or mast.
The issue here could be transport costs but hey its an idea to work on.