So, would you like me to try to compose a romantic Waltz? ADDITIONAL INFO: First known musical games were written by J. P. Kirnberger and C. P. E. Bach in 1757 and 1758 respectively. These kind of works were usually regarded as low quality music and served as mere passtimes for dilettanti and people with no formal musical education. There were at least 2 of these games spuriously published under the name of W. A. Mozart (probably after his death): K. Anh. 294d (Waltz), and K. Anh. C 30.01 (Contredanse). The only musical game actually by Mozart is the K. 516f, probably written for private use. It has no instructions on how to perform it and so it remains a mystery until today. Link to an article on this topic by Hideo Noguchi: www.asahi-net.or.jp/~rb5h-ngc/e/k516f.htm
@@Zarty-Music ill just own it, i already jotted down my matrices and want to stick to the rows as much as possible, otherwise i might as well just write all of it freely it's not like there aren't any other traditional (or anti-traditional) voice leading rules being broken also i did rewrite a version avoiding it by altering the rhthym of one of the rows (that parameter is serialized too), and my mom preferred the octaved one 💀
This game worths only for the purpose on having 18th-century motivic stock patterns to work on (what is a very nice thing if one composes in historical style of 18th century music). Obviously rolling dice cannot deliver a well structured, balanced and a pleasant composition at the moment one rolls these same dice on a table. Making music is a craft that needs theoretical and practical knowledge, sensibility, creativity and CONTROL of the musical events. Thus a composer needs to work on these motivic stock patterns transposing, combining, making changes (pitch or note value) on some notes of the motive, making sequences, making diminutions on them, all this paying closely attention to the rules of counterpoint, partimento, and making use of hexachordal Italian solfeggio. I will give a try to this "dice game" with a more controlled approach.
Wait, if you use two 6 faces dice not every number has the same probability to show up, hence some combinations are more likely to be played than others.
That's very interesting. The question is if the composer took that into account when designing the table chart. It's worth investigating if there is any noticeable difference between more and less probable numbers/measures... I suspect that in these kind of games the composers might start off by creating a few complete Waltzes from beginning to end and then simply blend them together through the table chart, instead of randomly writting isolated measures. This could explain why some combinations work very well and others simply don't, but I'm just guessing here...
@@Zarty-Music on a probability level there is a substantial difference between the various obtainable numbers: 7 is the most probable since you can get it from 6 cases, while 2 and 12 are the least likely to get because the can be obtained just with 1 case each. 7 has a probability to show up of 6/36 = 1/6 = 16,666... % , whilst 2 and 12 have only a probability of 1/36 = 2,777... %. It is 6 times more probable to get a 7 than a 2 or 12: this added to the fact that the measures numbers are oddly placed in the table makes me think that the author of the game tried to direct all the possible combinations to a more or less precise outcome through probability distribution and conscious measures writing and numbering.
@@Zarty-Music some combination are even more unlikely to get, such as having all the number 2 (or 12) line: the probability is (1/36)¹⁶, a number so small that makes this result almost impossible to get. Getting all the 6 line is also practically impossible to get, but it is still 2,821,109,907,456 times more probable.
So, would you like me to try to compose a romantic Waltz?
ADDITIONAL INFO:
First known musical games were written by J. P. Kirnberger and C. P. E. Bach in 1757 and 1758 respectively.
These kind of works were usually regarded as low quality music and served as mere passtimes for dilettanti and people with no formal musical education.
There were at least 2 of these games spuriously published under the name of W. A. Mozart (probably after his death): K. Anh. 294d (Waltz), and K. Anh. C 30.01 (Contredanse).
The only musical game actually by Mozart is the K. 516f, probably written for private use. It has no instructions on how to perform it and so it remains a mystery until today.
Link to an article on this topic by Hideo Noguchi: www.asahi-net.or.jp/~rb5h-ngc/e/k516f.htm
what a cool concept - thanks for sharing this!
I enjoyed this video :DD
cool video!
Nice. Always great to take a peek into the past's hobbies and games! I do think the character dialogues could be omitted from the video tho
this is an incredibly done video!!! why does it have less than 200 views!?!
Thank you! I'm glad you liked It :D
Such a cool book, can't believe gpt tried copying it 🙄
Excellent video!
im writing a serial fugue and the subject / countersubj. was written with dice
i still ended up with parallel octaves lmao
Haha, don't worry, there is always room for some... minor adjustments.
@@Zarty-Music ill just own it, i already jotted down my matrices and want to stick to the rows as much as possible, otherwise i might as well just write all of it freely
it's not like there aren't any other traditional (or anti-traditional) voice leading rules being broken
also i did rewrite a version avoiding it by altering the rhthym of one of the rows (that parameter is serialized too), and my mom preferred the octaved one 💀
Can you do how to compose a barcarolle?
Yes, I might in the future!
This game worths only for the purpose on having 18th-century motivic stock patterns to work on (what is a very nice thing if one composes in historical style of 18th century music). Obviously rolling dice cannot deliver a well structured, balanced and a pleasant composition at the moment one rolls these same dice on a table. Making music is a craft that needs theoretical and practical knowledge, sensibility, creativity and CONTROL of the musical events. Thus a composer needs to work on these motivic stock patterns transposing, combining, making changes (pitch or note value) on some notes of the motive, making sequences, making diminutions on them, all this paying closely attention to the rules of counterpoint, partimento, and making use of hexachordal Italian solfeggio. I will give a try to this "dice game" with a more controlled approach.
Agreed!
This video had 404 👀 when I have come here
Are the component measures available in MIDI format?
Hello. From the link in the description you can download them in any format you want, including MIDI.
@@Zarty-Music Thank you!
Wait, if you use two 6 faces dice not every number has the same probability to show up, hence some combinations are more likely to be played than others.
That's very interesting. The question is if the composer took that into account when designing the table chart. It's worth investigating if there is any noticeable difference between more and less probable numbers/measures...
I suspect that in these kind of games the composers might start off by creating a few complete Waltzes from beginning to end and then simply blend them together through the table chart, instead of randomly writting isolated measures. This could explain why some combinations work very well and others simply don't, but I'm just guessing here...
@@Zarty-Music on a probability level there is a substantial difference between the various obtainable numbers: 7 is the most probable since you can get it from 6 cases, while 2 and 12 are the least likely to get because the can be obtained just with 1 case each. 7 has a probability to show up of 6/36 = 1/6 = 16,666... % , whilst 2 and 12 have only a probability of 1/36 = 2,777... %. It is 6 times more probable to get a 7 than a 2 or 12: this added to the fact that the measures numbers are oddly placed in the table makes me think that the author of the game tried to direct all the possible combinations to a more or less precise outcome through probability distribution and conscious measures writing and numbering.
@@Zarty-Music some combination are even more unlikely to get, such as having all the number 2 (or 12) line: the probability is (1/36)¹⁶, a number so small that makes this result almost impossible to get. Getting all the 6 line is also practically impossible to get, but it is still 2,821,109,907,456 times more probable.
@@aronbucca6777 Thanks for all the enlightening info, it gave me a lot to think about with regard to how this game might have been designed!
Couldnt you have NOT used hollow plastic dice? Hhahahhaa
Everything else is fantastic!