How To Properly Gap Piston Rings
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- Опубліковано 23 лип 2024
- Check out Kalvinator Engines: www.kalvinatorengines.com
Piston ring gap is critical to the operation of your engine. Especially if it's a performance, or boosted application like mine. In this video, Kevin Frische of Kalvinator Engines goes over the process and how to set your piston ring gap properly. Kevin has been doing this for several years and really knows what he's talking about. I hope this video helps if you're going to be installing piston rings on your engine.
My pistons and rotating assembly: www.pbm-erson.com/Catalog/PBM/...
Thanks to Kevin Frische for his help in this video.
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Discussion about this video: www.ericthecarguy.com/kunena/...
Tools
Ring Square Tool: rehermorrison.com/product/univ...
Electric Ring File: www.summitracing.com/parts/pr...
Engine Details
Displacement: 363cid
The Block: www.pbm-erson.com/Catalog/PBM/...
The Crank: www.pbm-erson.com/Catalog/PBM/...
The Heads: performanceparts.ford.com/par...
Compression: 8.9:1
The Cam: Comp Cams custom grind: 222@.050" 222@.050 .357"lobe lift .571" valve lift (1.6 rocker) .351" lobe lift .562" valve lift (1.6 rocker) 114º separation 4ºadvance
Modified: Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
The Carburetor: www.holley.com/products/fuel_...
The Distributor: www.msdperformance.com/produc...
The Ignition: www.msdperformance.com/produc...
The turbo Kit: www.on3performance.com/shop/19...
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Boy, there sure is a lot more precision work involved than I thought. Very informative build. Thanks, Eric!
That's exactly why I wanted to make this series. Thanks for your comment.
@@ericthecarguy Thank you, but there are two kind of infos about the oil rings gaps, ... one is as you showed on that chart, but other is twice or even triple bigger . So, what is correct ? Thank you.
Eric/Brian, this is turning out to be one of the most fascinating and informative series in all your vlogs! Mind you, I LOVE the Pay It Forward ones, but I've learned SO MUCH from the Frisches at Kalvinator about the subtleties that go into making a world-class engine build.
Eric, thanks for posting these amazing videos. I am learning a lot as I am building a forged engine. Thanks again and keep on making great videos.
Fascinating series....these Kalvinator guys seem very professional and methodic
Great series with loads of wisdom being shared!
This is a very good video. Its so important to get the correct end clearance for the application. To small and end clearance(like putting a blower on an engine never made for it) the rings will get hot, grab on to the cylinders and destroy the engine.
Love your channel, love the vids. Makes me more confident in doing the work myself for my project. Thanks a lot man.
I like that Kevin's jumping in with the knowledge now.
Congrats for the work bro,you are one of the best mechanicks on youtube !
Nice to see some in depth engine build vids from the pros. thanks
As informative as it is concise. Love it. Thank you.
Awesome explanation. I'm about to do my ring end gaps now on my project! wish me luck!
That guy is good.. He seems to know his sh*t. He's done this a few times. Good job
Very nice camera work! My compliments to Brian Kast. I wish the rest of the UA-cam automotive/mechanical world understood that the purpose of a video is (duh!) - the video! Give us good, clear, close-up views, move your hands out of the way when necessary, make sure that what you say is represented by what you show. Keep it up Eric!
great tip on using a piston to get the rings square in the cylinder bore, very helpful, I'm going to be starting an engine build on a corvette soon your recent videos have been very helpful thanks a lot keep up the great work 👍
Anthony Stauffacher u start yet?
@@alansmilealot no
Awesome info . I already located nos rings for the day I have to do it , If I do . Thinking ahead on locating some nos parts . True blue
About to start the rebuild on the bottom end of my small block. Excellent video. Thanks guys
Good luck!
I
Didn't know there's a lot of engineering going towards piston ring gaps. such minute detail!
Yep, that's what I've been trying to convey this entire series. It's not just about slapping parts together. Thanks for the comment.
Great video team..Merry Christmas
Hey Eric. I have a Sohc engine and I need to re-adjust the rocker arms. Any possibility of explaining how to do it or a video?
So much learning. Thanks for sharing Eric
Thanks for the refresher. Got my rods back yesterday, fitting my rings today. New thing learned: roll of masking tape.
I never even thought about this wow.. Thanks Eric
Do the micrometers, callipers dial indicators etc. have an annual calibration check in typical shops such as this?
Just curious.
It was definitely a good and instructional video.
Huh, never thought of the tape roll, damn lol so simple yet so effective
Eric quick question if I’m using stock pistons and rings do I still gap them bigger for higher boost applications? Bore x application
nice work I have questions my cylinder size 10 and ring size 10 but I don't have dea about gap top ring and 2nd ring and oil rin thank you
Great video Eric!
Hello , just a question I have a problem with my wv sirocco i had lost compresion in two cylinders and the mechanic told me that two pistons were damaged and i need to change all four of them. After removing the piston head the only thing wrong with it was a broken piston ring. Did they scum me ?Thank you for your answer.
so sophisticated equipment 🙏
oh no more kalvinator engines and more fremont videos. i thought posting repair video may be better but im wrong i miss the build videos. i hope kalvinator engines get on youtube there amazing team
very good guys is there more on the rings setting?.. Thank -u TTFN....
So I have a .020 ring gap on my cast 5/64 the rings and I'm planning on a 200 shot of nos..what should I gap my rings to so I can be safe?
like this series with Kevin
Eric I've been watching you for years. I will be getting my rings for a 302 with 150 shot of nitrous you got a good ballpark number to start at. ?
I have a question
I wanna put oversized Pistons in my 2.0L and the cylinder walls between the inner cylinders is about 8.7mm and I wanna do 1mm bigger, will my cylinder walls hold up?
questionEric ?
do oil control rings have a up or down ???
Q2 have you ever reused piston rings ?
You can defiantly tell that kevin is a professor the way he presents himself. both him and his son must be awesome to hang out with. I love how they enjoy sharing their knowledge with not only you but the rest of us as well! =)
Is loss of compression and blowby caused by the rings not dealing flush against the cylinder walls or is it the gap becoming too large?
Ooh, I like the tape roll method to square the ring in the bore!
Good video thank you this helps a lot!
Very cool. Seems easy enough.
Thanks, but there are two kind of infos about the oil rings gaps, ... one is as you showed, and other is twice or even triple bigger . So, what is correct ? Thank you.
Great video!
Hey thanx for the in depth detail. I worked 35 yrs in the turbine, rocket and even auto manufacture which is equally as important as any higher speed product to sustain a reasonable life span. I wondered if the ring spacing could be stretched a little to prevent oblong cylinder wear. This is right up more your alley. Thought of it based on the stability of a "stretched" bike, dragsters not flipping over and frankly. The trigonometry of margin of force on a, say 4" diameter ring assembly in relation with such a .5 inch gap or whatever. If there was a way to increase the gap would this not guide with far less force to maintain alignment decreasing the tend to dig at the walls increasing stability? Just curious
Maybe an exaggerated idea of my question is if the gap matched the diameter would this be more stabile with less pressure between the rings and wall? Sure seems like it. Or have carbide sleeve cylinders and rings ;- )
I learned something new 👍🏻
how much is it typically cost to have a machine shop file the rings to ur specific ring gap requirements
That “I like to sneak up on it instead of oops” earned you a subscriber and me a laugh🤣
Do u gap rings with dry or lubricated cykinder walls?
Had an engine that wouldnt run right.....it was the ring gaps...I never knew that they had to be adjusted, now I do. thankyou.
I was wondering if you would want to square the ring and make the gap measurement with a torque plate bolted to the block to simulate the stress of having the head installed?
That would be a better measurement. Measuring at the bottom also help dial in better.
can any moly coated ring be file-fitted?
You should talk about speccing the offset of the rings too, if you haven't already.
Nice, thx for sharing info
What's the ring end gap for a 2002 Honda civic D17a2 block can't find this info anywhere
how about ring clocking? just curious if that is only a thing for imports?
Next video.
Can you file down a .16”s over piston ring set in a 97 5.9bt Cummins to factory spec and not have issues?
I wana change my con rods but dont wana remove the engine or send the block away to be machined question is can i reuse my old rings avoide hoaning and gaping
Most excellent!
感恩了解，謝謝分享！
You can put a Dremel in a vice use a cut off wheel and it works just about the same as an expensive tool.
A Dremel seems a fit too aggressive... is it? I mean, usually, the file is hand-cranked. (Man hands turn what, 30-80RPM?) Dremels run up to 20000RPM, and its minimum operating speed is pretty fast, lol
what is the exactly gap of ring in the cylinder,i just wanna know about that,.. 1st ring?2nd ring? thank you.
Okay I did my math and now I’m stuck, I’ve got a bore size of 3.760 x 0.0050 = .0188 for my top ring and then I’ve 3.760 x 0.0055 = .02068 , now would you take .018 as your top ring and .020 for your second ring or am I doing this wrong? This is my first time gapping, thank you for your time
So much caliber of experienced humans in one video.
Quality video.
The way he takes out the ring after he measures the gap out of the barrel is true technique.
Good job
When rings lose the seal and blowby occurs and loss of compression is it against the cylinder wall or is it the gap that becomes too large?
There's always a little bit of blow-by between the rings and cylinder walls, even with a new engine. As the rings and bores wear out you just get more and more of it until it becomes a problem
too tight of a ring gap on nitrous or boosted applications can cause the ring to pinch the piston when it expands and ultimately break the piston.
I've seen when they expand enough to pop the top off of a piston and shot peen the cylinder head with piston fragments
Is this necessary for stock engines line the 1.8L 4 cylinder Toyota engine rebuild?
No. But, always check the Piston ring end gap. Manufactures can make mistakes also.
I have a 08 vw r32 added a big turbo. And i ordered mahle pistons and the gap came .0070 and on the little paper they send you they say cut to 0065 now i figured be for the gap was 65 and had 0 blow by. Now 70 with more boost should be fine. Now it smokes like the marlbro man. Drove it for like 30 min and stoped smoking. Then all of a sudden, smoking again. Any ideas?
That was supposed to be .0065 multiplied by your cylinder bore diameter. (3.300" is the stock bore) which would be .02145" ring gap.
One of my favorite movies. Hahahah. Independence Day baby. Also a great actor hahaha
Hi, when you say 23 as in? Im trying to built my engine, bought new ring, dont know if i should grind before use
23 thousandths of an inch
.023
Thanks man
Hey Eric! I'm a long time watcher, and I've always been wondering... You always mention putting links in the description, but I'm personally one of those people who doesn't usually check video descriptions.
I usually click a link within a video to open it in another tab and watch afterwards, however. Have you considered embedding links within the videos? "I'll put a link to the video right here (point, make funny face)"
Video end cards are pretty nice, too. You could add a ton of links there.
I hope he doesn't. It's beyond annoying. Reminds me of how CNN puts a crawler on the bottom, clock in the corner, then a logo at the top corner and then another on the opposite side that takes up 1/4 of the screen. Annotations/links in videos are annoying as hell.
Awesome, was thinking about doing this to my sprayed h22a this winter.
not sure if this ones fore Eric of Kevin lol but what about gapless rings or total seal rings??
Pros and cons. It reality, if the gap is correct for the amount of heat that the piston ring is subjected to, the gap will be very close but the ends will not butt together while the engine is running. The Total Seal rings, I use mostly in applications that use methanol and a lot of it. Sprint car engines with mechanical fuel injection. Methanol has no lubrication properties to it and can wash the oil off of the cylinder walls which could cause a loss of ring seal and or piston skirt scuffing.
The job of the top ring is to 90% seal compression and 10% oil control.
The job of the Second ring is 80% oil control and 20% seal compression
Of course the oil ring is riding along metering the amount of oil the engine needs on the cylinder wall.
I should mention that the piston rings also transfer heat from the piston to the block.
So you can see that this is the reason for the different types, styles and materials of piston rings and it really depends on the application of the engine and somewhat budget of the customer. Some of the ring sets I use from Total Seal are approaching the $400-$500 range.
Could I have used a Gapless ring set? Absolutely. Was it necessary? I did not feel it was for this application. Now, If he wants try 20# boost and a 300 shot of nitrous, then I misjudged the application. Lol.
Kalvinator Engines if file to fit rings help accommodate a larger bore when freshening up an engine how file to fit oil expansion ring. shouldn't it be way too large as well?
I have 3.8 229 my pistons rings say .o17 gap but there 035 sir and the middle too but bottom little bit tighter im i ok with o35 for my rings i want to but new rings what size i need standard size 035 or over size 035 my chambers no scratches at all just glossy please help me out i don't have a dial gauge im doing oldschool way just by the pistons rings
Thanks guys !!
Could someone please help me I'm trying to figure out my compression ratio fo rmy build and summits calculator says 1.37:1 what the he!! Does that mean?
Hi Great video but I would like to comment on something you said to the guy setting the ring gap. You said to him as the rings heats up they seals.. That's incorrect. the reason why you gap the rigs is. if you don't have enough gap, as the engine heats the rings grow and could break the rings and or score the cylinder walls could also break the ring lands on the piston & heavy piston scuffing if you don't have the proper gap.
Awesome!
Sweet flying fuck clean that coffee machine.
GetSomeChubbs Adds to the flavor.
I have seen what the rings do to pistons if you don't gap your rings when you add nitrous or turbo/supercharger and break the pistons
Hi , do you need to gap stock rings , on a stock engine , with stock pistons ? Or just install them?
I could be wrong but you should be fine. They're talking about file fit ring set where they come with very small gap and you have to file them to the gap you want or taking stock rings and making a bigger gap for turbo/nitro setup (more heat = more expansion = more gap needed). but i think stock they come with the gap they should have for manufactures specs. but it would always be good to CHECK BEFORE you install. too small of ring gap and when the motor heats up if they expand too much and close the gap then it breaks a lot of other things.
also another note, i gapped my own rings last night with stock bore, wiseco piston kits and the rings were all (bearly on some) within manufacture specs. but if i wasn't gapping for my turbo setup i still probably would have gapped them a bit to have them all be consistent and right where the manufacturer specs them to be.
Gonna boost it huh? Sweet
I did my math wrong. .I just rechecked and I have filed my rings between 12 thou to 20 thou too much .. I'm running big block Ford I have tons on nitrous and just bought 7 turbos .. what should I do go buy new rings ??? Or shal i just run my 400 shot of nitrous or go twin turbo ???
When I use to race I would tell friends that bought nitrous or supercharger or whatever that they should gap their rings specially if it’s a new engine if it’s got 100k on it you have a chance that the rings wore down some and have a bigger gap but nobody ever listened most friends weren’t professional technicians so they didn’t know better. I remember this one friend that I always had grudge races with he had a nitrous kit on and when we were racing I know that he was changing his jets to a 300hp or bigger shot and I told him if u changed ur jets out to something big ur gonna blow ur engine up so if u wanna change them back I’ll give you time I know we’re not on good terms but I don’t want you to blow up ur engine because I know u never gapped ur rings I’m sure you don’t have cold enough spark plugs and I’m sure you didn’t pull any timing out for the bigger shot and he said no I didn’t put a bigger shot in so I said ok just trying to be nice. Soon as he shifts to second gear you hear a big boom it was a nitrous backfire he melted most spark plugs, blew the throttle body off the intake, blew the side off the intake, broke the nitrous plate and cracked his brand new 1,000 dollar hood all because he had too much timing, wrong spark plugs for the huge shot of nitrous also he ran crap pump gas. When I built a stroker motor for my car he went out and bought a car with a stroker motor in it and he put a 400 shot of nitrous on it and I told him again dude gap the rings or you might break a piston, he said I have the right plugs, correct timing, good fuel I will be fine! I said dude that engine has a lot more cylinder pressure then a stock motor then add nitrous them rings are gonna grow a lot from heat and if the gap is too small the ring ends will touch and lock up in the bore and break off the top of the piston then if ur lucky you will need a new piston, sleeve that cylinder and worst case one of the main caps pull out of the block and the entire engine is junk could even ruin the 2400 dollar heads. He starts telling me about the best machine shop around built this engine I said yeah even more reason because a good engine builder isn’t gonna gap the rings bigger then needed if they don’t say they are running a power adder it’s gonna be a tight ring gap. His wife was a shit talker and said he knows what he’s doing and when I walked away I over heard her say you better not ruin this engine we paid alot for this car. Well we race and about 3/4 of the way down the track his car started smoking really bad. We get to the pits I walk over and see the engine puffing really bad out of the breather I said there you go you broke a piston! Him and his few buddies said no it’s probably just a spark plug, I said no it’s puffing out the breather that’s cylinder pressure leaking past the piston! He pulls the engine apart one piston was broken pretty much in half, couple other pistons had small areas in the ring land’s broken, needed minimum 2 sleeves, because he kept running it the $1,000 crank had a few journals that were In rough shape, the side of the head where the cylinder with the really bad piston was in bad shape a chunk of piston made the valve hit bending the valve and the seat was damaged because he kept running the engine trying to fix it thinking it was a bad plug or something the head was damaged pretty good it could have been fixed it needed some welding, machine the bore for the seat, then grinding the welds down smooth in the chamber and make sure the chamber size was correct but by the time you paid a machine shop to do all that for a few hundred bucks more you just buy a new head, there was a big crack in the main webbing so if he didn’t keep running the engine ruining the crank he would have been lucky that the main didn’t pull out and ruin the crank but he ruined the crank from running it! He would have just needed a new block, set of pistons, bearings, gasket kit and some machine work but just from running it everything was junk pretty much all the was saved was the rods, one cylinder head, Arp studs, timing chain set, push rods, rockers, camshaft, oil pump drive that’s about it as far as the long block goes. So many guys would blow up an engine every year sometimes 2 engines and my stroker engine is still going 15 years later. Couple guys said one night that I don’t beat on my engine as hard as that’s why it’s still together and I said naw I just did my engine correctly like the main girdle for instance you guys bout the girdle that requires no machine work because to properly do it you have to have the block bare with the caps bolted to the block and bring it to the machine shop like that so the main caps are perfectly flat with each other when installed for the girdle to sit on the actual main caps flush not just on the main studs and because the girdle contacts the entire main cap it ties all the main caps together it keeps the caps from walking which is what keeps the main webbing from cracking when these engines make any power this is the most important thing to do on these 2 bolt main blocks and both you guys have had the mains crack and rip out which ruined the engines completely I looked at the one guy and said you did this on 2 engines you had built and still didn’t do this on the engine you just did. He said I bought the most expensive girdle it’s billet cnc top grade aluminum and I said it’s not gonna help go buy the cheap 75 dollar steel girdle that needs to be machined and he didn’t and he blew this engine up too lol.
Appreciate the novella
What about a turbo engine on pump gas with water/meth injection? Would it still simply use the gap for turbo/blown, gas? I would assume the water/meth wouldn't play any major role(if any) in the gap.
If anyone knows that would be great. I am about to send my block off to my local machine shop.
oil rings get checked. how-to file to fit the expansion oil ring
What If the gap is to tight or too big? What happens to the performance? Will you lose lose oil dramatically?
if its too tight, the piston ring will expand and end up breaking the piston and causing damage to the cylinder walls. If its too big, you will lose compression and end up burning more oil.
Does anyone if they sell pre gapped ls rings
"I want the piston ring to rotate freely around the piston..."
Me, working on a 2-stroke: "I DO NOT!"
interesting..thanks
The piston rings should stay in the same position that they were installed because of the clamping force they provide naturally and under compression as Sam Johnson says if the did rotate at a point in time they would align and cause a low compression issue.
hey Eric!
Eric I don't know if you noticed how tight that feeler gauge is when it gets removed from the rings I always thought when your gapping things you should not have a tight fit with the feeler gauge
I say it should fit tight but not crazy tight.
Yeah I understand that but if you look at the video you can see how tight it looked
I do agree, I use feeler gauges almost daily at work for setting clutches, They are suppose to drag just a very little, but require almost zero effort.
Roger Carlin I agree. His looked feeler gauge damaging tight.
Mine is at 26 and 28 out of the box am I ok
Good video but I thought you were only supposed to file "one way"?